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Who is the greatest leader of the 21st century so far? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,158
edited August 4 in General
imageWho is the greatest leader of the 21st century so far? – politicalbetting.com

Are all historians fascists? 

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    The government’s adviser on political violence has written to the home secretary asking to investigate the intimidation of candidates during the general election.

    Lord Walney is suggesting there could have been a "concerted campaign by extremists".

    He is urging Yvette Cooper and Security Minister Dan Jarvis to commission a short inquiry to find out if groups in different constituencies were working together and to document what he calls the "dark underbelly" of abuse.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn05edkr97vo
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    The history of the 21st century so far is the rise of China (and it's quiet takeover of most of Africa), Russia and probably the forthcoming isolation of the USA..

    If we are looking 100 years from now I expect Xi will be the person that is most talked about - and quite possibly Trump - as both those have global implications.

    Putin is very much a regional story..

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    I'd do not share Max's optimism if either of those two make it through to the run off.

    The real question is the make up of the Tory MPs, and will they put two more moderate candidates forward?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    Donald Trump!

    (Puts on coat and red hat, and walks away slowly).
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    I wonder what the optimum time would have been for Hitler to have died and be remembered as a great leader ?

    Late 1938 after gaining the Sudentenland
    Spring 1939 after gaining Bohemia-Moravia
    Late 1939 after defeating Poiland
    Summer 1940 after defeating France
    Autumn 1941 after the Kyiv or Vyazma encirclements.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Has there been any indication of when the Tory leadership race will be run?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited July 14

    I'd do not share Max's optimism if either of those two make it through to the run off.

    The real question is the make up of the Tory MPs, and will they put two more moderate candidates forward?

    I suspect Braverman has soiled herself so publicly post election that she doesn't make the cut. Jenrick on the other hand has been more measured in his critique of the government to which he belonged, although he does seem to have misremembered that he was an immigration minister.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    The current historical context is a retreat from globalisation and Putin has been one of the factors in this. However he has created extraordinary fragility in the Russian state. "Call no man happy until he's dead" applies here. Hitler reached a zenith in 1942, 1945, not so much.
    Admittedly his hybrid war on democracy has brought the US to the brink of political collapse, but as France and the UK, amongst others, shows, there is no inevitability about the victory of Putin backed authoritarian disruptors.
    We live in exceptionally dangerous times, but so have many before us.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    I wonder what the optimum time would have been for Hitler to have died and be remembered as a great leader ?

    Late 1938 after gaining the Sudentenland
    Spring 1939 after gaining Bohemia-Moravia
    Late 1939 after defeating Poiland
    Summer 1940 after defeating France
    Autumn 1941 after the Kyiv or Vyazma encirclements.

    Mid-1939. Once the war started there was very little prospect of Hitler emerging with a positive reputation.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited July 14
    The bloody history of US assassination attempts from Lincoln to Trump

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/politics/2024/07/14/history-of-us-assassination-attempts-from-lincoln-to-trump/

    There are cases from past few years on this list I wasn't aware of.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Interesting header @maxh - thanks!

    Zelensky would be my pick for the greatest leader of the 21st century so far.

    Yes, Zelensky is a good call.

    His quote, to either Biden or one of his officials, that “I don’t need a ride, I need ammunition”, was something that altered the course of world history.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,945
    edited July 14
    Things I find interesting:

    It was a flat roof relatively close to the speaker's platform. I would expect at least a law enforcement person to be there not a shooter.

    How did he miss.

    When he started shooting on his belly from a distance in an elevated position he was killed pretty quickly.

    After the shots everyone stayed where they were but crouched down a teeny bit. An active shooter and people just hanging around.

    The protection officers jumped on him but didn't crash him out, letting the principal dictate timings.

    Two state troopers (?) meandered onto the stage without much purpose.

    When they did eventually crash him out it was slowly and they exposed him to the public.

    But I suppose this is Trump and this is the USA.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    kjh said:

    Why under the header of who is the greatest leader of the 21st century is there a bust of Jasper Carrott. I know he is up there amongst the greatest, but not the greatest surely.

    It's just there to salsify the vegans.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,774
    Mr. eek, maybe. But the question is whether Xi inherited at a good moment of general trends or did well. And has he done well?

    I think that can only be assessed with some hindsight at least. There are a couple of things to consider, with the Belt and Road Initiative and possible invasion of Taiwan top of the list, perhaps. Also, how the real estate market goes, whether shifting from the 10 year premiership and lack of infighting to prolonged rule and corruption purges proves detrimental, and plenty of other stuff I don't know about.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,504
    Great thread header yet again. Many thanks.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    CO Rep Steven Woodrow has likely ended his career and done the Dems no favours:

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1812337444672725443
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    edited July 14

    Interesting header @maxh - thanks!

    Zelensky would be my pick for the greatest leader of the 21st century so far.

    I agree.

    The greatest are not those who sought power, but rather those that power sought to destroy but failed to do so.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    edited July 14

    The government’s adviser on political violence has written to the home secretary asking to investigate the intimidation of candidates during the general election.

    Lord Walney is suggesting there could have been a "concerted campaign by extremists".

    He is urging Yvette Cooper and Security Minister Dan Jarvis to commission a short inquiry to find out if groups in different constituencies were working together and to document what he calls the "dark underbelly" of abuse.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn05edkr97vo

    That’s not horribly concerning, not at all.

    One lone idiot with an egg or a milkshake is bad enough, but if we start to see groups becoming more organised then the threat level goes up substantially. See the environmental extremists and their escalation of protest in recent years, the more extreme of the ‘Palestine’ supporters, or the number of times far-right and far-left thugs have met each other on the streets.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600
    An omen for today?

    BY THE BAREST OF ALL MARGINS'

    It's been five years since that epic World Cup final

    (via @ICC) #OnThisDay


    https://x.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1812366197435842960
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,032
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting header @maxh - thanks!

    Zelensky would be my pick for the greatest leader of the 21st century so far.

    Yes, Zelensky is a good call.

    His quote, to either Biden or one of his officials, that “I don’t need a ride, I need ammunition”, was something that altered the course of world history.
    I would also go with Zelensky, but with a number of reservations. In particular, he did not put Ukraine on a war footing before the Russian invasion, completely underrating the danger his country was in, despite urgent warnings from the UK and the US. For some bizarre reason, he has not extended conscription to women. And he has been too slow otherwise to put his country on a war footing.

    It's not exactly been a great century for leadership in the democratic world so far.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Has there been any indication of when the Tory leadership race will be run?

    It will likely conclude at Conference in October, or perhaps they will have hustings at Conference followed by the voting afterwards.

    There’s much less hurry when in opposition, which should be good for the party.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    An omen for today?

    BY THE BAREST OF ALL MARGINS'

    It's been five years since that epic World Cup final

    (via @ICC) #OnThisDay


    https://x.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1812366197435842960

    Please, not the barest of all margins. I'd settle for England 3-0 up at half time and a 2nd half borefest.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,774
    Mr. Fishing, both Russia and Ukraine have terrible demographics thanks, largely, due to the horrendous death tolls in World War Two. There was, for a long time, a higher than might be expected lower age threshold on male conscription, probably for that reason.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...
    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Oh God, you've stirred!

    Is that the time?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Sandpit said:

    Has there been any indication of when the Tory leadership race will be run?

    It will likely conclude at Conference in October, or perhaps they will have hustings at Conference followed by the voting afterwards.

    There’s much less hurry when in opposition, which should be good for the party.
    I would have thought the new leader would like to be in place by conference but if they are going to have a members' vote (as they surely must) they need to get their skates on.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Dreadful news re the Trump assassination attempt. Sadly it has to improve his chances of being next POTUS. And it moves the discussion away from Biden’s infirmity so helps Biden’s chances and weakens those of Kamala. I’ve reversed most of my bets on Kamala and backed Biden at 7.6. So I’m now more GREEN Biden than Harris, RED on Trump but I might be able to get out near quits once it’s a two horse race, depending on how the market settles.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    An omen for today?

    BY THE BAREST OF ALL MARGINS'

    It's been five years since that epic World Cup final

    (via @ICC) #OnThisDay


    https://x.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1812366197435842960

    Please, not the barest of all margins. I'd settle for England 3-0 up at half time and a 2nd half borefest.
    The time for “barest of margins” is the 100m final at the Olympics, not the football!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    I wonder what the optimum time would have been for Hitler to have died and be remembered as a great leader ?

    Late 1938 after gaining the Sudentenland
    Spring 1939 after gaining Bohemia-Moravia
    Late 1939 after defeating Poiland
    Summer 1940 after defeating France
    Autumn 1941 after the Kyiv or Vyazma encirclements.

    A bit like Mao.

    If he had died in 1946 few would remember him.

    In 1956 he would be remembered as the man who reunified China and brought peace.

    In 1966 he would be remembered as the architect and inspiration of Revolution both domestically and internationally.

    In 1976 as a man who caused millions of deaths through economic failure and did irreparable damage to Chinese culture.

    Reputation is largely a matter of timing.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,103
    edited July 14
    Good morning everyone. I think we need a bit of OT today.

    So my question: who is your most 'differently interesting' famous local? For cities I'll give you within one mile, for everyone else within 5 miles.

    I'll have two:

    - Percy Toplis the Monocled Mutineer, from South Normanton / Blackwell.
    - Harold Lloyd, the cricketer, from Nuncargate, Kirkby-in-Ashfield. It has a very good working class not-at-all-poncy butcher, which I appreciate.

    My photo for the day is Larwood bowling to a full "Leg Theory" field.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    IanB2 said:

    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.

    Not true. There’s the palace too. I saw it on the hangover.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited July 14

    Mr. Fishing, both Russia and Ukraine have terrible demographics thanks, largely, due to the horrendous death tolls in World War Two. There was, for a long time, a higher than might be expected lower age threshold on male conscription, probably for that reason.

    Russia also has a rather big problem with falling birth rates, increasing alcohol induced early deaths, poor healthcare all round and emigration...

    Russia is Running Out of People
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXfNGcMSwzU
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    On topic, nobody making the case for Liz Truss?

    Nobody?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,743
    Just waiting for someone to say Liz Truss ...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    edited July 14
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.

    Not true. There’s the palace too. I saw it on the hangover.
    He does have section named after him too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited July 14

    On topic, nobody making the case for Liz Truss?

    Nobody?

    Well she was certainly a visionary....
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Watching the video of the shooting, one thing that struck me is that if the shooter had aimed for Trump's chest rather than presumably Trump's head then Trump would likely be dead. There did not appear to be any screens around the podium.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    On topic, nobody making the case for Liz Truss?

    Nobody?

    Chris said:

    Just waiting for someone to say Liz Truss ...

    Ah, such timing...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    IanB2 said:

    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.

    I always get him mixed up with that chap with really bad hay fever - Julius Sneezer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    Sandpit said:

    An omen for today?

    BY THE BAREST OF ALL MARGINS'

    It's been five years since that epic World Cup final

    (via @ICC) #OnThisDay


    https://x.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1812366197435842960

    Please, not the barest of all margins. I'd settle for England 3-0 up at half time and a 2nd half borefest.
    The time for “barest of margins” is the 100m final at the Olympics, not the football!
    Even then, only if you compete as per the original Olympics - naked.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.

    Not true. There’s the palace too. I saw it on the hangover.
    Isn't he also remembered for having some jam for tea?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone. I think we need a bit of OT today.

    So my question: who is your most 'differently interesting' famous local? For cities I'll give you within one mile, for everyone else within 5 miles.

    I'll have two:

    - Percy Toplis the Monocled Mutineer, from South Normanton / Blackwell.
    - Harold Lloyd, the cricketer, from Nuncargate, Kirkby-in-Ashfield. It has a very good working class not-at-all-poncy butcher, which I appreciate.

    My photo for the day is Larwood bowling to a full "Leg Theory" field.

    "Within 5 miles"? As I am in rural Dorset, are cows allowed?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    On topic, nobody making the case for Liz Truss?

    Nobody?

    I’m not even sure that Liz Truss is making the case for Liz Truss any more, and I say that as one of few on here who stood up for her when the was PM.

    The US conservative conference circuit is much more fun, as are the private speeches with six-figure payouts.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600
    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Meanwhile back home, here’s my picture for today, taken from a tweet:



    That’s Britain-Anchorage, right there.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    In the light of overnight news, the Mail on Sunday headline looks a little, er, partisan:

    "One last push to finish the job"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Because the rest of us are normal. Our lives aren't one constant round of hysteria. We get on with stuff, we do things. As I hinted at the other day, have you thought about getting involved in stuff like most people here rather than over reacting to it all.

    Yes it is a big story and the main topic of discussion, but only you are getting hysterical.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    In the light of overnight news, the Mail on Sunday headline looks a little, er, partisan:

    "One last push to finish the job"

    A misreading, I suggest. Clearly Mr Southgate forgot to order the All Bran for the team quarters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
    Perhaps a calming-down of the political rhetoric is what’s required, rather than pouring more fuel on the fire?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,839
    Sandpit said:

    The government’s adviser on political violence has written to the home secretary asking to investigate the intimidation of candidates during the general election.

    Lord Walney is suggesting there could have been a "concerted campaign by extremists".

    He is urging Yvette Cooper and Security Minister Dan Jarvis to commission a short inquiry to find out if groups in different constituencies were working together and to document what he calls the "dark underbelly" of abuse.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn05edkr97vo

    That’s not horribly concerning, not at all.

    One lone idiot with an egg or a milkshake is bad enough, but if we start to see groups becoming more organised then the threat level goes up substantially. See the environmental extremists and their escalation of protest in recent years, the more extreme of the ‘Palestine’ supporters, or the number of times far-right and far-left thugs have met each other on the streets.
    Scottish Labour supporters have for years complained about harassment of their election workers. As for coordination, perhaps, but have their been any complaints from the outer North-East London suburbs where IDS and Wes Streeting were narrowly returned? I've only seen reports from the Midlands.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    stjohn said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.

    Not true. There’s the palace too. I saw it on the hangover.
    Isn't he also remembered for having some jam for tea?
    Before or after he squashed his wife with a lemon squeezer?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone. I think we need a bit of OT today.

    So my question: who is your most 'differently interesting' famous local? For cities I'll give you within one mile, for everyone else within 5 miles.

    I'll have two:

    - Percy Toplis the Monocled Mutineer, from South Normanton / Blackwell.
    - Harold Lloyd, the cricketer, from Nuncargate, Kirkby-in-Ashfield. It has a very good working class not-at-all-poncy butcher, which I appreciate.

    My photo for the day is Larwood bowling to a full "Leg Theory" field.

    Gazza is from less than a mile away from where I was brought up.

    Is he sufficiently 'differently interesting'?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,774
    Mr. S, if it's keeping the temperatures cooler, then huzzah! I loathe warm summers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited July 14

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
    TwiX just needs to be used with intelligence, and it’s a wonderful source

    SO ABOUT THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

    I see at least six. It’s delicious

    1. The Dems actually did it, hiring some incel shooter and using the secret service

    2. The secret service, with the tacit encouragement of the Dems, kinda allowed it with lax security

    3. It’s a lone lucky gunman that missed, fired up by anti Trump Dem rhetoric

    4. It’s an anti-Trump REPUBLICAN or patriot, but fired up by same Dem rhetoric

    5. It was all staged by Trump to make him a martyr

    6. Just a complete loony and random, might easily have shot at Biden or Taylor Swift

    Right now I’d say a mix of 3 or 4. But could be 2 or 6
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Whether he will be a great leader of the 21st century or not, James Cleverly seems to be the most popular choice amongst voters to be next Conservative leader
    "James Cleverly leads race to replace Rishi Sunak, poll suggests" https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/james-cleverly-conservative-leadership-race-replace-rishi-sunak-poll-s79rdh583
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
    TwiX just needs to be used with intelligence, and it’s a wonderful source

    SO ABOUT THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

    I see at least six. It’s delicious

    1. The Dems actually did it, hiring some incel shooter and using the secret service

    2. The secret service, with the tacit encouragement of the Dems, kinda allowed it with lax security

    3. It’s a lone lucky gunman that missed, fired up by anti Trump Dem rhetoric

    4. It’s an anti-Trump REPUBLICAN or patriot, but fired up by same Dem rhetoric

    5. It was all staged by Trump to make him a martyr

    6. Just a complete loony and random, might easily have shot at Biden or Taylor Swift

    Right now I’d say a mix of 3 or 4. But could be 2 or 6
    How long before number 7: "It was the Ukrainians...."
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
    Perhaps a calming-down of the political rhetoric is what’s required, rather than pouring more fuel on the fire?
    Tomorrow is my first day back at work in seven weeks.

    It's going to be a long week, there's going to be quite a few threads that tone it down.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    TimS said:

    Meanwhile back home, here’s my picture for today, taken from a tweet:



    That’s Britain-Anchorage, right there.

    See? I’m even right about long term, geographically specific climate change
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
    Perhaps a calming-down of the political rhetoric is what’s required, rather than pouring more fuel on the fire?
    Tomorrow is my first day back at work in seven weeks.

    It's going to be a long week, there's going to be quite a few threads that tone it down.
    Glad you've weathered your health woes and are back fighting fit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
    Perhaps a calming-down of the political rhetoric is what’s required, rather than pouring more fuel on the fire?
    Tomorrow is my first day back at work in seven weeks.

    It's going to be a long week, there's going to be quite a few threads that tone it down.
    Good luck. Eat fibre
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,839
    edited July 14

    Sandpit said:

    Has there been any indication of when the Tory leadership race will be run?

    It will likely conclude at Conference in October, or perhaps they will have hustings at Conference followed by the voting afterwards.

    There’s much less hurry when in opposition, which should be good for the party.
    I would have thought the new leader would like to be in place by conference but if they are going to have a members' vote (as they surely must) they need to get their skates on.
    George Osborne speculated that if the party does go long, then if Rishi does not want to be responding to the October budget, James Cleverly might be interim leader (do not bet on this, interim leaders do not count for betting purposes). I do not know how close Osborne is to the action or if he is just hopecasting the best timetable for a centrist to emerge.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
    TwiX just needs to be used with intelligence, and it’s a wonderful source

    SO ABOUT THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

    I see at least six. It’s delicious

    1. The Dems actually did it, hiring some incel shooter and using the secret service

    2. The secret service, with the tacit encouragement of the Dems, kinda allowed it with lax security

    3. It’s a lone lucky gunman that missed, fired up by anti Trump Dem rhetoric

    4. It’s an anti-Trump REPUBLICAN or patriot, but fired up by same Dem rhetoric

    5. It was all staged by Trump to make him a martyr

    6. Just a complete loony and random, might easily have shot at Biden or Taylor Swift

    Right now I’d say a mix of 3 or 4. But could be 2 or 6
    How long before number 7: "It was the Ukrainians...."
    Actually that’s bang on. Yes

    7. A foreign agent. Most likely Ukrainian (with most to lose)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
    Perhaps a calming-down of the political rhetoric is what’s required, rather than pouring more fuel on the fire?
    Tomorrow is my first day back at work in seven weeks.

    It's going to be a long week, there's going to be quite a few threads that tone it down.
    So you've completed your Leave of Abscess?

    Good to hear that you're sufficiently recovered to return to work.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone. I think we need a bit of OT today.

    So my question: who is your most 'differently interesting' famous local? For cities I'll give you within one mile, for everyone else within 5 miles.

    I'll have two:

    - Percy Toplis the Monocled Mutineer, from South Normanton / Blackwell.
    - Harold Lloyd, the cricketer, from Nuncargate, Kirkby-in-Ashfield. It has a very good working class not-at-all-poncy butcher, which I appreciate.

    My photo for the day is Larwood bowling to a full "Leg Theory" field.

    Gazza is from less than a mile away from where I was brought up.

    Is he sufficiently 'differently interesting'?
    We’re spoilt for choice of differently interesting people who lived in Brockley. My top 3 would be Lily Langtry, mistress of Edward VII; Kate Bush, the archetype of differently interesting; and Spike Milligan.

    With an honourable mention for death metal band Pagan Altar, who penned the track The Devil Came Down to Brockley.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600
    Tories fear Labour-Lib Dem Parliament pact could leave them ‘irrelevant’

    Concerns that two parties will informally agree to elect a Liberal Democrat deputy speaker, leaving Conservatives with little influence


    Senior Conservatives fear being locked out of democracy if Labour and the Liberal Democrats work together to stitch up key positions that control the workings of Parliament.

    The Tories believe that, as the biggest party on the opposition benches, they should have two deputy speakers to maintain the traditional 50/50 split between Labour and Conservatives in the Speaker’s Office, which has one speaker and three deputies.

    But there are concerns within the Tory party that Labour and the Lib Dems will agree an informal pact to elect a Lib Dem deputy speaker, which would leave the Tories with little influence over parliamentary business.

    The speaker and his deputies have control over choosing which amendments to legislation are debated and put to a vote.

    The Tories fear that, if they only have one deputy speaker – and possibly the most junior of the three – it will affect their ability to provide a robust opposition to Labour and leave them effectively locked out of democracy for the next five years.

    The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, was a Labour MP before he was elected to the post in 2019 and resigned from the party.

    Convention dictates that the most senior deputy comes from the opposition, the second most senior from the speaker’s former party and the most junior from the opposition.

    But the rules define the opposition as anyone who is not on the government benches, meaning a Lib Dem – or even in theory an independent MP – could be chosen.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/12/tories-fear-labour-lib-dem-parliament-pact-speaker/
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,397
    stjohn said:

    Dreadful news re the Trump assassination attempt. Sadly it has to improve his chances of being next POTUS. And it moves the discussion away from Biden’s infirmity so helps Biden’s chances and weakens those of Kamala. I’ve reversed most of my bets on Kamala and backed Biden at 7.6. So I’m now more GREEN Biden than Harris, RED on Trump but I might be able to get out near quits once it’s a two horse race, depending on how the market settles.

    Why?

    My guess is it makes no difference and by November this won't seem significant at all.

    I've laid Trump a bit this morning. 1.5 is just too short.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Meanwhile back home, here’s my picture for today, taken from a tweet:



    That’s Britain-Anchorage, right there.

    See? I’m even right about long term, geographically specific climate change
    10 months, so I wouldn’t ascribe it to climate change just yet (I bloody hope not).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,409
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
    TwiX just needs to be used with intelligence, and it’s a wonderful source

    SO ABOUT THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

    I see at least six. It’s delicious

    1. The Dems actually did it, hiring some incel shooter and using the secret service

    2. The secret service, with the tacit encouragement of the Dems, kinda allowed it with lax security

    3. It’s a lone lucky gunman that missed, fired up by anti Trump Dem rhetoric

    4. It’s an anti-Trump REPUBLICAN or patriot, but fired up by same Dem rhetoric

    5. It was all staged by Trump to make him a martyr

    6. Just a complete loony and random, might easily have shot at Biden or Taylor Swift

    Right now I’d say a mix of 3 or 4. But could be 2 or 6
    Has Trump recently been very vocal in his defence of these semi-automatic guns? If he has, that's going to make 1/2 (they are not really divisable) look more likely - as if someone couldn't resist hoisting Trump with his own petard.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    I didn't have the energy to finish the thread which I was writing

    'Why do so many UK right wingers love the pussy grabbing fascist? Is it because they hate woman and democracy?'
    Perhaps a calming-down of the political rhetoric is what’s required, rather than pouring more fuel on the fire?
    Tomorrow is my first day back at work in seven weeks.

    It's going to be a long week, there's going to be quite a few threads that tone it down.
    Glad you've weathered your health woes and are back fighting fit.
    Abdominal abscesses suck, I would not recommend them.

    I was so unlucky my recuperation period covered the general election campaign and Euro 2024.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited July 14

    stjohn said:

    Dreadful news re the Trump assassination attempt. Sadly it has to improve his chances of being next POTUS. And it moves the discussion away from Biden’s infirmity so helps Biden’s chances and weakens those of Kamala. I’ve reversed most of my bets on Kamala and backed Biden at 7.6. So I’m now more GREEN Biden than Harris, RED on Trump but I might be able to get out near quits once it’s a two horse race, depending on how the market settles.

    Why?

    My guess is it makes no difference and by November this won't seem significant at all.

    I've laid Trump a bit this morning. 1.5 is just too short.
    It’s a fair question. How does this help Trump?

    Perhaps

    1. It makes trump-maybe voters more determined to vote?

    2. It means Biden probably stays as the focus moves away from his infirmity = good for trump
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Tories fear Labour-Lib Dem Parliament pact could leave them ‘irrelevant’

    Concerns that two parties will informally agree to elect a Liberal Democrat deputy speaker, leaving Conservatives with little influence


    Senior Conservatives fear being locked out of democracy if Labour and the Liberal Democrats work together to stitch up key positions that control the workings of Parliament.

    The Tories believe that, as the biggest party on the opposition benches, they should have two deputy speakers to maintain the traditional 50/50 split between Labour and Conservatives in the Speaker’s Office, which has one speaker and three deputies.

    But there are concerns within the Tory party that Labour and the Lib Dems will agree an informal pact to elect a Lib Dem deputy speaker, which would leave the Tories with little influence over parliamentary business.

    The speaker and his deputies have control over choosing which amendments to legislation are debated and put to a vote.

    The Tories fear that, if they only have one deputy speaker – and possibly the most junior of the three – it will affect their ability to provide a robust opposition to Labour and leave them effectively locked out of democracy for the next five years.

    The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, was a Labour MP before he was elected to the post in 2019 and resigned from the party.

    Convention dictates that the most senior deputy comes from the opposition, the second most senior from the speaker’s former party and the most junior from the opposition.

    But the rules define the opposition as anyone who is not on the government benches, meaning a Lib Dem – or even in theory an independent MP – could be chosen.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/12/tories-fear-labour-lib-dem-parliament-pact-speaker/

    Whom do they envisage be promoted as deputy speaker from the LD bench? Should be a senior MP with experience and the only one is Tim Farron. Can’t see it.

    An independent? Corbyn? Don’t be silly.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722
    Greatest leader of the 21st Century so far..

    Martin Johnson
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    TOPPING said:

    Things I find interesting:

    It was a flat roof relatively close to the speaker's platform. I would expect at least a law enforcement person to be there not a shooter.

    How did he miss.

    When he started shooting on his belly from a distance in an elevated position he was killed pretty quickly.

    After the shots everyone stayed where they were but crouched down a teeny bit. An active shooter and people just hanging around.

    The protection officers jumped on him but didn't crash him out, letting the principal dictate timings.

    Two state troopers (?) meandered onto the stage without much purpose.

    When they did eventually crash him out it was slowly and they exposed him to the public.

    But I suppose this is Trump and this is the USA.

    130 yards and his first president and he didn't miss. That's ok shooting
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
    TwiX just needs to be used with intelligence, and it’s a wonderful source

    SO ABOUT THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

    I see at least six. It’s delicious

    1. The Dems actually did it, hiring some incel shooter and using the secret service

    2. The secret service, with the tacit encouragement of the Dems, kinda allowed it with lax security

    3. It’s a lone lucky gunman that missed, fired up by anti Trump Dem rhetoric

    4. It’s an anti-Trump REPUBLICAN or patriot, but fired up by same Dem rhetoric

    5. It was all staged by Trump to make him a martyr

    6. Just a complete loony and random, might easily have shot at Biden or Taylor Swift

    Right now I’d say a mix of 3 or 4. But could be 2 or 6
    It was aliens, obvs, maybe with a helping hand from Chinese lab technicians.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    Did Biden actually say “we’re done talking about the debate, it’s time to put Trump in a bullseye” last week?

    There’s a few respectable sources Tweeting screenshots of this, but also saying that Biden deleted it today as it’s not on his feed any more.

    https://x.com/joshuasteinman/status/1812336975095214555?s=12
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,960
    edited July 14
    BBC reporter at rally describes moment after shooting
    https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cyx0vl4j1wko

    This video is somewhat unfortunate....we are under fire, under fire, we are taking cover...in the background people wandering about slowly without a care in the world, cars drive by at normal speeds, etc.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600
    edited July 14

    Tories fear Labour-Lib Dem Parliament pact could leave them ‘irrelevant’

    Concerns that two parties will informally agree to elect a Liberal Democrat deputy speaker, leaving Conservatives with little influence


    Senior Conservatives fear being locked out of democracy if Labour and the Liberal Democrats work together to stitch up key positions that control the workings of Parliament.

    The Tories believe that, as the biggest party on the opposition benches, they should have two deputy speakers to maintain the traditional 50/50 split between Labour and Conservatives in the Speaker’s Office, which has one speaker and three deputies.

    But there are concerns within the Tory party that Labour and the Lib Dems will agree an informal pact to elect a Lib Dem deputy speaker, which would leave the Tories with little influence over parliamentary business.

    The speaker and his deputies have control over choosing which amendments to legislation are debated and put to a vote.

    The Tories fear that, if they only have one deputy speaker – and possibly the most junior of the three – it will affect their ability to provide a robust opposition to Labour and leave them effectively locked out of democracy for the next five years.

    The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, was a Labour MP before he was elected to the post in 2019 and resigned from the party.

    Convention dictates that the most senior deputy comes from the opposition, the second most senior from the speaker’s former party and the most junior from the opposition.

    But the rules define the opposition as anyone who is not on the government benches, meaning a Lib Dem – or even in theory an independent MP – could be chosen.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/12/tories-fear-labour-lib-dem-parliament-pact-speaker/

    Whom do they envisage be promoted as deputy speaker from the LD bench? Should be a senior MP with experience and the only one is Tim Farron. Can’t see it.

    An independent? Corbyn? Don’t be silly.
    Alistair Carmichael?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,809

    Tories fear Labour-Lib Dem Parliament pact could leave them ‘irrelevant’

    Concerns that two parties will informally agree to elect a Liberal Democrat deputy speaker, leaving Conservatives with little influence


    Senior Conservatives fear being locked out of democracy if Labour and the Liberal Democrats work together to stitch up key positions that control the workings of Parliament.

    The Tories believe that, as the biggest party on the opposition benches, they should have two deputy speakers to maintain the traditional 50/50 split between Labour and Conservatives in the Speaker’s Office, which has one speaker and three deputies.

    But there are concerns within the Tory party that Labour and the Lib Dems will agree an informal pact to elect a Lib Dem deputy speaker, which would leave the Tories with little influence over parliamentary business.

    The speaker and his deputies have control over choosing which amendments to legislation are debated and put to a vote.

    The Tories fear that, if they only have one deputy speaker – and possibly the most junior of the three – it will affect their ability to provide a robust opposition to Labour and leave them effectively locked out of democracy for the next five years.

    The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, was a Labour MP before he was elected to the post in 2019 and resigned from the party.

    Convention dictates that the most senior deputy comes from the opposition, the second most senior from the speaker’s former party and the most junior from the opposition.

    But the rules define the opposition as anyone who is not on the government benches, meaning a Lib Dem – or even in theory an independent MP – could be chosen.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/12/tories-fear-labour-lib-dem-parliament-pact-speaker/

    Erm - isn't the answer to that to reform parliamentary procedure rather than preclude other parties from having deputy speakers?

    I don't really see why the third largest party shouldn't have a deputy speaker. In fact why not just expand the roster? I think in the Bundestag they have one deputy for each party represented.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694

    Tories fear Labour-Lib Dem Parliament pact could leave them ‘irrelevant’

    Concerns that two parties will informally agree to elect a Liberal Democrat deputy speaker, leaving Conservatives with little influence


    Senior Conservatives fear being locked out of democracy if Labour and the Liberal Democrats work together to stitch up key positions that control the workings of Parliament.

    The Tories believe that, as the biggest party on the opposition benches, they should have two deputy speakers to maintain the traditional 50/50 split between Labour and Conservatives in the Speaker’s Office, which has one speaker and three deputies.

    But there are concerns within the Tory party that Labour and the Lib Dems will agree an informal pact to elect a Lib Dem deputy speaker, which would leave the Tories with little influence over parliamentary business.

    The speaker and his deputies have control over choosing which amendments to legislation are debated and put to a vote.

    The Tories fear that, if they only have one deputy speaker – and possibly the most junior of the three – it will affect their ability to provide a robust opposition to Labour and leave them effectively locked out of democracy for the next five years.

    The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, was a Labour MP before he was elected to the post in 2019 and resigned from the party.

    Convention dictates that the most senior deputy comes from the opposition, the second most senior from the speaker’s former party and the most junior from the opposition.

    But the rules define the opposition as anyone who is not on the government benches, meaning a Lib Dem – or even in theory an independent MP – could be chosen.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/12/tories-fear-labour-lib-dem-parliament-pact-speaker/

    fuck around and find out
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,774
    Mr. Eagles, I am pleased you have recovered. Almost as resilient as Hannibal going through the Arnus Marshes.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    edited July 14
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What a bizarre threader as America unravels. Really?

    Stay off the tw@tter machine, repeat stay off the tw@tter machine...
    TwiX just needs to be used with intelligence, and it’s a wonderful source

    SO ABOUT THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES

    I see at least six. It’s delicious

    1. The Dems actually did it, hiring some incel shooter and using the secret service

    2. The secret service, with the tacit encouragement of the Dems, kinda allowed it with lax security

    3. It’s a lone lucky gunman that missed, fired up by anti Trump Dem rhetoric

    4. It’s an anti-Trump REPUBLICAN or patriot, but fired up by same Dem rhetoric

    5. It was all staged by Trump to make him a martyr

    6. Just a complete loony and random, might easily have shot at Biden or Taylor Swift

    Right now I’d say a mix of 3 or 4. But could be 2 or 6
    Of those options it's 3, 4 or an outside chance of 6.

    As for the "it was a Ukrainian" theory it's not, the gunman has been identified as Thomas Matthew Crooks, a local from Pennsylvania.

    I think this helps Trump in the short term but it also takes the focus off Biden's deteriorating mental faculties and any momentum there was to get rid of him has now stalled which I think is what gets Trump over the line.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    The Trump near miss - violence is never the answer in politics. No matter who you think should be targeted.

    Had Trump been killed yesterday would we now be seeing a MAGA reign of violent retribution? Their saviour shot dead so let’s go after the liberals?

    Now that Trump has been wounded by an egregious fuckup by the Secret Service, are we now to see MAGA security teams accompanying him at all times? Gold old boys with assault rifles protecting The Man from the evil government who almost got him killed?

    I don’t see a winner from this other than Trump. The entire election now will be on his terms and his agenda. Biden being incapable won’t matter any more because Trump is everything and everywhere. So Biden stays on the ticket, is utterly incapable of finding a political response, and gets absolutely swept away by Trump in November’s final presidential election.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Tories fear Labour-Lib Dem Parliament pact could leave them ‘irrelevant’

    Concerns that two parties will informally agree to elect a Liberal Democrat deputy speaker, leaving Conservatives with little influence


    Senior Conservatives fear being locked out of democracy if Labour and the Liberal Democrats work together to stitch up key positions that control the workings of Parliament.

    The Tories believe that, as the biggest party on the opposition benches, they should have two deputy speakers to maintain the traditional 50/50 split between Labour and Conservatives in the Speaker’s Office, which has one speaker and three deputies.

    But there are concerns within the Tory party that Labour and the Lib Dems will agree an informal pact to elect a Lib Dem deputy speaker, which would leave the Tories with little influence over parliamentary business.

    The speaker and his deputies have control over choosing which amendments to legislation are debated and put to a vote.

    The Tories fear that, if they only have one deputy speaker – and possibly the most junior of the three – it will affect their ability to provide a robust opposition to Labour and leave them effectively locked out of democracy for the next five years.

    The Speaker, Sir Lindsay Hoyle, was a Labour MP before he was elected to the post in 2019 and resigned from the party.

    Convention dictates that the most senior deputy comes from the opposition, the second most senior from the speaker’s former party and the most junior from the opposition.

    But the rules define the opposition as anyone who is not on the government benches, meaning a Lib Dem – or even in theory an independent MP – could be chosen.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/12/tories-fear-labour-lib-dem-parliament-pact-speaker/

    Whom do they envisage be promoted as deputy speaker from the LD bench? Should be a senior MP with experience and the only one is Tim Farron. Can’t see it.

    An independent? Corbyn? Don’t be silly.
    Alistair Carmichael?
    Perhaps. Possibly. Dunno. Forgot he’d been around longer than Farron TBH.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,839
    Sandpit said:

    An omen for today?

    BY THE BAREST OF ALL MARGINS'

    It's been five years since that epic World Cup final

    (via @ICC) #OnThisDay


    https://x.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1812366197435842960

    Please, not the barest of all margins. I'd settle for England 3-0 up at half time and a 2nd half borefest.
    The time for “barest of margins” is the 100m final at the Olympics, not the football!
    Except in Beijing 2008 when Usain Bolt had time to slow down, wave at the crowd and complete the Times crossword. The trouble with England 3-0 is it ignores that we invariably concede the first goal.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    The Trump near miss - violence is never the answer in politics. No matter who you think should be targeted.

    Had Trump been killed yesterday would we now be seeing a MAGA reign of violent retribution? Their saviour shot dead so let’s go after the liberals?

    Now that Trump has been wounded by an egregious fuckup by the Secret Service, are we now to see MAGA security teams accompanying him at all times? Gold old boys with assault rifles protecting The Man from the evil government who almost got him killed?

    I don’t see a winner from this other than Trump. The entire election now will be on his terms and his agenda. Biden being incapable won’t matter any more because Trump is everything and everywhere. So Biden stays on the ticket, is utterly incapable of finding a political response, and gets absolutely swept away by Trump in November’s final presidential election.

    Sadly, that's probably true.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274
    The US election is 4 months away . If you hated Trump yesterday you’re not suddenly going to like him today and vote for him.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    stjohn said:

    Dreadful news re the Trump assassination attempt. Sadly it has to improve his chances of being next POTUS. And it moves the discussion away from Biden’s infirmity so helps Biden’s chances and weakens those of Kamala. I’ve reversed most of my bets on Kamala and backed Biden at 7.6. So I’m now more GREEN Biden than Harris, RED on Trump but I might be able to get out near quits once it’s a two horse race, depending on how the market settles.

    Yes that's how the market has moved. Trump and Biden shorter, Harris out. Seems a reasonable reaction but wtf knows really. Everything about WH24 is outside usual parameters and only getting more so.

    No more violence please - and I hope his ear gets better - but I don't have time for the dark side today when we have the sun out and the Wimbledon final (Alcaraz in 4?) and the Euros (I think we can do it).

    Nice header Max.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,484
    Watching Sky news for first time in about 15 years (thought this story needed pictures rather than radio). It’s an absolute shitshow. Trevor Phillips is wooden as hell, they are interviewing Farage in what looks like a Clacton HMO and they are playing the video of the shooting on the split screen on loop with the volume on it so, whilst not a bad thing, it’s not particularly easy to hear Farage.

    Is Sky news really always this bad?

    Anyway, thoughts and prayers with Melania, hang in there girl.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    nico679 said:

    The US election is 4 months away . If you hated Trump yesterday you’re not suddenly going to like him today and vote for him.

    No it won't but there's a lot of people who will be motivated by rebellion against whatever agenda drove the gunman to do this, moderates who may have previously stayed home might not sit on their hands now. In a marginal race this could make a difference.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,600
    nico679 said:

    The US election is 4 months away . If you hated Trump yesterday you’re not suddenly going to like him today and vote for him.

    Gerald Ford had two assassination attempts made on him and he still lost the election.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,413
    edited July 14
    Good morning All!

    One unfortunate effect, I understand, of the assassination attempt is that it gives Farage a bit more airtime, as a ‘friend of Trump’.

    For myself, I’m very glad we have a family festivity today. Means we’ll have the TV off until later, although as Younger Son is visiting we’ll have to have the football on this evening.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,839

    BBC reporter at rally describes moment after shooting
    https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/cyx0vl4j1wko

    This video is somewhat unfortunate....we are under fire, under fire, we are taking cover...in the background people wandering about slowly without a care in the world, cars drive by at normal speeds, etc.

    The odd thing about the shooting is that Trump is stood up and walked to a car by the Secret Service, presenting a larger target than if they'd kept him on stage, on the ground.

    (And that he asked for his shoes. Does he take his shoes off to speak?)
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited July 14

    stjohn said:

    Dreadful news re the Trump assassination attempt. Sadly it has to improve his chances of being next POTUS. And it moves the discussion away from Biden’s infirmity so helps Biden’s chances and weakens those of Kamala. I’ve reversed most of my bets on Kamala and backed Biden at 7.6. So I’m now more GREEN Biden than Harris, RED on Trump but I might be able to get out near quits once it’s a two horse race, depending on how the market settles.

    Why?

    My guess is it makes no difference and by November this won't seem significant at all.

    I've laid Trump a bit this morning. 1.5 is just too short.
    One of the main reasons I quit gambling on politics was a general discomfort at betting on the probability of violence affecting political outcomes.

    There's no way around it. If you're taking it seriously, you need to account for this stuff in your betting and shift your positions in response.

    It is not optional.

    Anyway, now as a non-punter, I can opine in good conscience;

    Laying Trump for Potus @ 1.5 is an excellent bet.

    Good luck to all you sick bastards.

    May your riches eat away at your soul.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274

    nico679 said:

    The US election is 4 months away . If you hated Trump yesterday you’re not suddenly going to like him today and vote for him.

    Gerald Ford had two assassination attempts made on him and he still lost the election.
    I think Trump raising his fist and shouting fight , fight , fight as he’s whisked away looks pathetic IMO.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Sandpit said:

    An omen for today?

    BY THE BAREST OF ALL MARGINS'

    It's been five years since that epic World Cup final

    (via @ICC) #OnThisDay


    https://x.com/ESPNcricinfo/status/1812366197435842960

    Please, not the barest of all margins. I'd settle for England 3-0 up at half time and a 2nd half borefest.
    The time for “barest of margins” is the 100m final at the Olympics, not the football!
    Except in Beijing 2008 when Usain Bolt had time to slow down, wave at the crowd and complete the Times crossword. The trouble with England 3-0 is it ignores that we invariably concede the first goal.
    But Bolt got a world record in that final, even after completing the Times crossword and pointing at the clock. A close final is the favourite result, but a stonking WR is definitely a close second.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    stjohn said:

    TimS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Julius Caesar? Bestrode one of the greatest empires of history, and all he's remembered for is a salad.

    Not true. There’s the palace too. I saw it on the hangover.
    Isn't he also remembered for having some jam for tea?
    I always felt sorry for the rat!
This discussion has been closed.