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Ils ne passeront pas – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    That's "over campaign period".
    I'll await more conclusive age data.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585

    If SKS had any sense, with this massive majority he would immediately scrap the stupid triple lock. But he won't.

    No, he's backed into a corner there. Extend NI to all income - that would raise enough to cover the cost of the triple lock for a few years.

    Reducing the 2.5% element to 0.5% might be a possibility but smacks of underhandedness.
    I can just see NI being extended to all income for future oldies but present oldies being exempted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    edited July 7
    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    The so called far right surge in Europe never really happened.

    In the EU elections, it was really only RN and AfD, who seem to hate each other, and now the RN are coming THIRD in these assembly elections.

    Farage meanwhile (who I would necessarily call far right but some of the weird creatures floating about Refuk certainly are) only managed 4 seats.

    It has happened, at the last election in France RN had under 20 seats, now they're going to have over 200. It's not a majority but it's a huge boost to the party and if the hard left/centre left alliance continues to ignore immigration reform then that 40% ceiling will begin to approach 50% as we get to 2026 and the presidential election.
    Exit poll said 134-152. So far they have 131 with 123 seats to go.
    Lots of Paris and other left places though
    Yeah, check out the results map; provinces outside of Paris region are pret' near finished counting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,581
    Is the RN outperforming the exit poll? They're already up to 133 declared seats on Le Monde's tracker.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198
    MaxPB said:

    I think there is a fairly hard ceiling in France for NR support at 40%, regardless of how bad things might get 40% is the limit. That means no NR president and no NR majority but it is extremely worrying that 40% of people in France are ready to vote for NR and that there's no party in the centre that is defusing their support. They've just ignored the issues driving that support and this is the result. It's a warning to everyone in Europe right now, issues around immigration, asylum and housing costs all need to be taken seriously.

    The problem with that thinking is that people have, repeatedly, over the years, stated that the National Ramblers have a ceiling of X. Where X is a bit above their latest best showing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Leon said:

    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?

    Yes.

    Which Villefranche?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866

    stodge said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    The key numbers are the 65+ demographic - in 2019 64% voted for Boris Johnson against 17% for Corbyn. The swing away from the Conservatives to the LDs and Reform is significant in explaining why so many affluent seats in southern and eastern England went LD.

    I'd be looking at the correlation between LD gains and the demographic profile of a seat.
    No gratitude from too many oldies perhaps ?

    Or maybe they have high enough standards that they were repulsed by the misconduct of the Conservatives ?
    The huge swing away from the Conservatives among older voters has been a constant feature of polling since 2022. Nothing the Conservatives did (Triple Lock) made any difference. We need much more research to identify the whys and wherefores and I'm sure that will happen.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Mentuoned it before but there appears to be a line of those who first voted in 1997 - older than that voters much more willing to vote Conservative

    I remember the age of Conservative voters being raised 15-20 years ago but then it was laughed at and said people turn more conservative with age

    Tough nut to crack

    Wonder what the numbers are on % net support dying by year. Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s worth a percentage point or two by 2029 !!
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,290
    Leon said:

    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?

    They do. 122 seats still to declare for the full Assembly.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    I’m sorry to see Farooq go.
    He is/was quite witty and often said very interesting things.

    The truth is there are whole spells when @Leon clogs up the site with shite about aliens, the supposed rise of the far right, how shite Britain is etc. At least the incessant travel pictures have been banned.

    It’s a challenge for the editors.
    It’s possible Leon repels more contributors than he gains actual readers.

    You're not wrong but let me be absolutely clear: this isn't a "me or him" thing. I'm off and not coming back no matter what happens. I'm not asking for anything, just giving the courtesy of saying goodbye before I delete my account.

    Now let's get back to talking about France. I'm not here to be the centre of attention.

    If this French result is as it appears, calling the election has been a masterstroke by Macron. We saw Sanchez do something similar recently in Spain. If only Rishi had done the s... oh he did. Oh well. Two out of three ain't bad.
    A masterstroke, no. Is he a very lucky general, yes.
    He gambled on the people of France, and he was right. Well played, Manu. Now France to win Euro 2024 and they'll be dancing on the streets of Paris.
    His PM is resigning in the morning. He will have to try some form of cohabitation with the socialist grouping about whom he has always been incredibly rude. He has lost control of domestic policy. But yes, he has proved that a majority of the French do not support the far right.
    And it's going to make the next guy's job even more difficult because the hard left are not going to countenance any immigration reforms or asylum reforms that would help ensure that RN don't breach that 40% ceiling. This is a disaster, cohabitation with France's Corbyn is horrific.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    If SKS had any sense, with this massive majority he would immediately scrap the stupid triple lock. But he won't.

    No, he's backed into a corner there. Extend NI to all income - that would raise enough to cover the cost of the triple lock for a few years.

    Reducing the 2.5% element to 0.5% might be a possibility but smacks of underhandedness.
    I can just see NI being extended to all income for future oldies but present oldies being exempted.
    Too complex. And what's the logic? Phase it in over 5 years maybe, alongside the triple lock.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    I assumed that he was the only one attending who had a clear idea of exactly what he wanted. I really didn't see that changing with the change of government, if anything, his clarity of purpose was going to stand out even more.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,009
    edited July 7

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    Strangely it is very much what French commentators and journalists are saying on the live BBC coverage not just Goodwin
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,290
    JohnO said:

    Leon said:

    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?

    They do. 122 seats still to declare for the full Assembly.
    Now 111.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    JohnO said:

    Leon said:

    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?

    They do. 122 seats still to declare for the full Assembly.
    Ah fair I must have misread earlier.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Ooh nearly neck and neck and neck now:

    RN (incl. LR-RN) (133)
    NFP left-wing coalition (132)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (128)

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/07/07/2024-french-election-results-chart-and-map-of-second-round-winners_6676976_8.html
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.

    He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.

    I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.

    I’ll leave it there.

    Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.

    I feel the same. I won't be here again after today. That's a guarantee.
    Why? I like your posts and you seemed to be one of those posters who trod your own furrow and therefore wasn't bothered by what anyone thought which I like
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    MaxPB said:

    If SKS had any sense, with this massive majority he would immediately scrap the stupid triple lock. But he won't.

    No, he's backed into a corner there. Extend NI to all income - that would raise enough to cover the cost of the triple lock for a few years.

    Reducing the 2.5% element to 0.5% might be a possibility but smacks of underhandedness.
    Extend NI to all income and the top rate of tax becomes 53%, the state taking more than half of someone income is immoral. I and many others go out to work to ear for myself and my family, not for the state.
    I would just retire if they did that, lowering my net tax contribution
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,110
    Point of order: the RN got 89 seats last time, not 20.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    stodge said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    By who(m)?
    By opinion polls reported here.

    No details I afraid so my memory might be wrong IIRC there were predictions of below 10% for the youngest age group.
    Presumably SOME predictions of below 10% for the yout?

    Note that subsample(s) would logically have pretty high margin of error; meaning that 14% youth-Con vote may well be within margin(s) of error for youngest voter cohort.
    Well I don't know but Sean Fear says its a swing to the right since 2019 so I'll leave it at that.
    As usual, @Sean_F is overegging the Conservative side of the story.

    In 2019, the 18-24 age group voted 62% Labour, 19% Conservative, 9% LD and 10% Others. The Focaldata numbers are Labour 47%, Conservative 14%, Green 14%, Reform 11% and LD 8%.

    Yes, a 5% swing to Conservative from Labour but Conservatives still down among younger voters and tied with Greens who are the big winners (Reform did well). Again, look at where the Greens won or did well and see the demographic profile of the seat - may be informative.
    Doesn't that depend on what type of Green voter - young urban leftists or old rural nimbys ?
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    No, he is spot on.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    He's right. Macron now has cohabitation with France's version of hard left Corbynists and Putin/Hamas supporters, that's going to make it impossible for them to address all of the issues that are driving French people into the arms of RN.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,009

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    Check that out with our own @NickPalmer
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    In other news, all the mosquitoes have gone

    This being France, i like to think that;’s because there are weird social rules, like NO ONE wears salmon pink shorts in Valence before July, and all mosquitoes stop biting at 9pm or the cicadas will cluck in disapproval
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198

    If SKS had any sense, with this massive majority he would immediately scrap the stupid triple lock. But he won't.

    The State Pension is at the heart of the benefits system the Labour Party essentially worships.

    SKS cutting that (abandoning the triple lock would be a political “cut”) would cause MPs to defect to more left wing parties.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796

    Ooh nearly neck and neck and neck now:

    RN (incl. LR-RN) (133)
    NFP left-wing coalition (132)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (128)

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/07/07/2024-french-election-results-chart-and-map-of-second-round-winners_6676976_8.html

    Do you think the French could take over the counting in Inverness next time?
  • Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    No, he is spot on.
    No, he isn't.

    They are not "blocking" Le Pen. The French people voted in a democratic election and they've voted against the far right.

    Goodwin as a Trump fan hates democracy and would be much more comfortable in a dictatorship.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    JohnO said:

    Leon said:

    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?

    They do. 122 seats still to declare for the full Assembly.
    Merci
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    The issue for the Tories now is that if they want to win back voters under the age of 65, they are going to have to about turn on their slavish support for the elderly. I am not seeing signs they are wanting to do that, it still seems like collective denial about what has happened.

    It's been 72 hours. I know we've all been rushing to do detailed analysis but the politicians themselves need time to rest and reflect.
    Do you think Jenrick and Braverman amongst others have the intelligence to do it, really?

    I'd be backing Hunt or Tom T if I were a Tory.
    At the moment, those who are pontificating from within the Conservative Party are doing so for personal advantage. I doubt they have even begun to think through what happened and why it happened and what the solutions to the party's problems might be and where they might be found.

    After weeks of campaigning, I suspect most of them need sleep, time with their families and time to think and you don't get any of that turning up on Sunday political shows.

    This forum seems full of people with the answers but I doubr we're any better off.

    Best just to forget the Conservative Party for a few weeks and get on with the real political business.
    There is a long way to go, but in ideological respects there truly are the makings of a Tory split. Like a few million other formerly loyal Tories mine has been lost since Patersongate and Partygate, and was wavering from the moment of Cameron's resignation after Brexit vote, and the failure to prepare a post Brexit detailed plan.

    In Toryland, including those excluded like Gauke, there are at least these factions:
    Close to Labour (as it currently is)
    Close to LD
    Old style One Nation
    Small state libertarians
    Reform style large state authoritarians.

    At this point if a Braverman type becomes leader I am off for good. But if a Tugendhat did a Starmer style purge of the extremes I would start looking again. I doubt if this is just me.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866

    stodge said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    By who(m)?
    By opinion polls reported here.

    No details I afraid so my memory might be wrong IIRC there were predictions of below 10% for the youngest age group.
    Presumably SOME predictions of below 10% for the yout?

    Note that subsample(s) would logically have pretty high margin of error; meaning that 14% youth-Con vote may well be within margin(s) of error for youngest voter cohort.
    Well I don't know but Sean Fear says its a swing to the right since 2019 so I'll leave it at that.
    As usual, @Sean_F is overegging the Conservative side of the story.

    In 2019, the 18-24 age group voted 62% Labour, 19% Conservative, 9% LD and 10% Others. The Focaldata numbers are Labour 47%, Conservative 14%, Green 14%, Reform 11% and LD 8%.

    Yes, a 5% swing to Conservative from Labour but Conservatives still down among younger voters and tied with Greens who are the big winners (Reform did well). Again, look at where the Greens won or did well and see the demographic profile of the seat - may be informative.
    Doesn't that depend on what type of Green voter - young urban leftists or old rural nimbys ?
    Yes and I think we can see that - I know little of Waveney Valley or North Herefordshire but I can hazard a guess the Bristol and Brighton seats have more of the former and in my part of the world the Greens polled a strong third in all the Newham seats, well ahead of the Conservatives. The Greens also did well in inner south London in Lewisham and other seats - no threat to Labour now but they have supplanted both the Conservatives and LDs as the main repository for anti-Labour votes and the 2026 London local elections may well show this continuing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    rcs1000 said:

    Point of order: the RN got 89 seats last time, not 20.

    So they are up 45 seats already. Oh the power of the expectations game.
  • HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    rcs1000 said:

    Point of order: the RN got 89 seats last time, not 20.

    89 in 2022, up 82 from the 7 they got in 2017 and the 2 they got in 2012 having previously been zero.

    Meanwhile Farages lot have just gone from 0 to 5.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    MaxPB said:

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    He's right. Macron now has cohabitation with France's version of hard left Corbynists and Putin/Hamas supporters, that's going to make it impossible for them to address all of the issues that are driving French people into the arms of RN.
    It is guaranteed chaos. I hereby predict Macron will call another election as soon as he can, as this is unworkable

    He can do that in a year’s time, I believe
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    Sean_F said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    Compared to 2019, that’s a small shift right, among voters aged 18-34. It’s the middle aged and older voters who really hammered the Conservatives.
    There will be 3 million deaths in the UK by the next GE, half of them Con or Reform voters.

    Cons need to recruit around a million voters just to stand still.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    The UK may look deeply comedic to you. OK we have cats attending cabinet, but we don't have an average of 3.6 mass shootings a day, so who are the real doofuses here?

    If attack line spin means pointing out that Joe is doolally: I don't identify as anything in particular in the UK but USA wise I am sure as fuck a Democrat, despite only visiting the country for about a month about every 3,years. I firmly believe that Biden is demented and that the interests of his party the USA and the world absolutely require recognition of that fact. Do you call that,bilge and if so why?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Neck and neck and nearly neck

    NFP left-wing coalition (134)
    RN (incl. LR-RN) (134)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (129)
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    DavidL said:

    Ooh nearly neck and neck and neck now:

    RN (incl. LR-RN) (133)
    NFP left-wing coalition (132)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (128)

    https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2024/07/07/2024-french-election-results-chart-and-map-of-second-round-winners_6676976_8.html

    Do you think the French could take over the counting in Inverness next time?
    I hope you're not casting aspersions on the Dingwall Counting Centre? Drama worthy of the Bard, I tell you.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    edited July 7

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    No, he is spot on.
    He wrote it 5 hours ago before the exit poll blew his prediction sky high.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    Yes this is a crucial point

    These seat numbers in France. Do they include the seats already won in the first round by the Fash RN? Seats like, ooh, random example - ROGER’s constituency in Villefranche?

    Yes.

    Which Villefranche?
    SUR MER
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    In fairness to Macron as well, he took the great tactical advantage of the incumbent - the initiative - and used it.

    Contrast with Sunak who dithered and dilly-dallied when he should have gone to the nation *much* sooner; ideally (for him) immediately.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    The issue for the Tories now is that if they want to win back voters under the age of 65, they are going to have to about turn on their slavish support for the elderly. I am not seeing signs they are wanting to do that, it still seems like collective denial about what has happened.

    It's been 72 hours. I know we've all been rushing to do detailed analysis but the politicians themselves need time to rest and reflect.
    Do you think Jenrick and Braverman amongst others have the intelligence to do it, really?

    I'd be backing Hunt or Tom T if I were a Tory.
    At the moment, those who are pontificating from within the Conservative Party are doing so for personal advantage. I doubt they have even begun to think through what happened and why it happened and what the solutions to the party's problems might be and where they might be found.

    After weeks of campaigning, I suspect most of them need sleep, time with their families and time to think and you don't get any of that turning up on Sunday political shows.

    This forum seems full of people with the answers but I doubr we're any better off.

    Best just to forget the Conservative Party for a few weeks and get on with the real political business.
    There is a long way to go, but in ideological respects there truly are the makings of a Tory split. Like a few million other formerly loyal Tories mine has been lost since Patersongate and Partygate, and was wavering from the moment of Cameron's resignation after Brexit vote, and the failure to prepare a post Brexit detailed plan.

    In Toryland, including those excluded like Gauke, there are at least these factions:
    Close to Labour (as it currently is)
    Close to LD
    Old style One Nation
    Small state libertarians
    Reform style large state authoritarians.

    At this point if a Braverman type becomes leader I am off for good. But if a Tugendhat did a Starmer style purge of the extremes I would start looking again. I doubt if this is just me.
    As I well remember from 1987, the immediate post election period can be used by opportunists to try to force defeated parties into ill thought-out change.

    The truth is no one but us political geeks will be giving politics any real thought for the next three months (unless a black swan event occurs).

    The question I'd be putting to ALL political people is how do we increase turnout? How do we get people to re-engage with the political process and not say "they're all the same"?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,343

    MaxPB said:

    The so called far right surge in Europe never really happened.

    In the EU elections, it was really only RN and AfD, who seem to hate each other, and now the RN are coming THIRD in these assembly elections.

    Farage meanwhile (who I would necessarily call far right but some of the weird creatures floating about Refuk certainly are) only managed 4 seats.

    It has happened, at the last election in France RN had under 20 seats, now they're going to have over 200. It's not a majority but it's a huge boost to the party and if the hard left/centre left alliance continues to ignore immigration reform then that 40% ceiling will begin to approach 50% as we get to 2026 and the presidential election.
    Exit poll said 134-152. So far they have 131 with 123 seats to go.
    150 or so seems about right. That’s up from 89. It’s the Macronists who are the losers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,581

    Neck and neck and nearly neck

    NFP left-wing coalition (134)
    RN (incl. LR-RN) (134)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (129)

    Things would look very different if the NFP hadn't moved very quickly to form an official coalition before the first round. They contain quite a disparate group of parties and it remains to be seen whether they will have any meaningful unity once the votes are counted.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    I assumed that he was the only one attending who had a clear idea of exactly what he wanted. I really didn't see that changing with the change of government, if anything, his clarity of purpose was going to stand out even more.
    Recommend that the cabinet attendee with lowest seniority be tasked with maintaining a stash of cat treats, toys, catnip, for critical role of keeping Larry onside.

    Believe that Dick Whittington had similar policy . . . but substituting nice tasty Wapping warf rats . . .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
    Starmer has a family cat called Jojo according to Sunday Times.

    Vic is worried that Larry and Jojo may not find common ground.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,366
    edited July 7
    Why on earth do people threaten to flounce off when a poster irritates them? It's a shame, don't do it. Leon can be a bit annoying, particularly in his repetitiveness, but he is also very entertaining and quite amusing at times- if you don't like it, don't read it. And if he insults you, he's quite happy for you to tell him to fuck off.

    A confession - there's a fair few posters on here who I find deeply irritating, and not usually for political reasons; it's the pompous, know-it-all, I could do a better job than any politician, public official or journalist type of posters who get on my nerves.
    But guess what? I just ignore them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    Neck and neck and nearly neck

    NFP left-wing coalition (134)
    RN (incl. LR-RN) (134)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (129)

    Looks closer than the exit polls then nonetheless no coherent government can be formed from that and Macron's centrist block looks likely to be 3rd so still a dreadful result for the Elysee
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    stodge said:

    stodge said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    By who(m)?
    By opinion polls reported here.

    No details I afraid so my memory might be wrong IIRC there were predictions of below 10% for the youngest age group.
    Presumably SOME predictions of below 10% for the yout?

    Note that subsample(s) would logically have pretty high margin of error; meaning that 14% youth-Con vote may well be within margin(s) of error for youngest voter cohort.
    Well I don't know but Sean Fear says its a swing to the right since 2019 so I'll leave it at that.
    As usual, @Sean_F is overegging the Conservative side of the story.

    In 2019, the 18-24 age group voted 62% Labour, 19% Conservative, 9% LD and 10% Others. The Focaldata numbers are Labour 47%, Conservative 14%, Green 14%, Reform 11% and LD 8%.

    Yes, a 5% swing to Conservative from Labour but Conservatives still down among younger voters and tied with Greens who are the big winners (Reform did well). Again, look at where the Greens won or did well and see the demographic profile of the seat - may be informative.
    Doesn't that depend on what type of Green voter - young urban leftists or old rural nimbys ?
    Yes and I think we can see that - I know little of Waveney Valley or North Herefordshire but I can hazard a guess the Bristol and Brighton seats have more of the former and in my part of the world the Greens polled a strong third in all the Newham seats, well ahead of the Conservatives. The Greens also did well in inner south London in Lewisham and other seats - no threat to Labour now but they have supplanted both the Conservatives and LDs as the main repository for anti-Labour votes and the 2026 London local elections may well show this continuing.
    Greens have done well in places where they have a strong presence in local government. This is the LD’s secret sauce; it’s a lot easier to find a fringe party credible if they haven’t made a total pig’s arse of local gov (as the hard right tend to).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,343
    stodge said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    By who(m)?
    By opinion polls reported here.

    No details I afraid so my memory might be wrong IIRC there were predictions of below 10% for the youngest age group.
    Presumably SOME predictions of below 10% for the yout?

    Note that subsample(s) would logically have pretty high margin of error; meaning that 14% youth-Con vote may well be within margin(s) of error for youngest voter cohort.
    Well I don't know but Sean Fear says its a swing to the right since 2019 so I'll leave it at that.
    As usual, @Sean_F is overegging the Conservative side of the story.

    In 2019, the 18-24 age group voted 62% Labour, 19% Conservative, 9% LD and 10% Others. The Focaldata numbers are Labour 47%, Conservative 14%, Green 14%, Reform 11% and LD 8%.

    Yes, a 5% swing to Conservative from Labour but Conservatives still down among younger voters and tied with Greens who are the big winners (Reform did well). Again, look at where the Greens won or did well and see the demographic profile of the seat - may be informative.
    I said a small shift to the right.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,581
    Ghedebrav said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    In fairness to Macron as well, he took the great tactical advantage of the incumbent - the initiative - and used it.

    Contrast with Sunak who dithered and dilly-dallied when he should have gone to the nation *much* sooner; ideally (for him) immediately.
    Yes, even in the immediate wake of Truss, calling an election would have looked bold and decisive and would have drawn a line under the past.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585

    If SKS had any sense, with this massive majority he would immediately scrap the stupid triple lock. But he won't.

    No, he's backed into a corner there. Extend NI to all income - that would raise enough to cover the cost of the triple lock for a few years.

    Reducing the 2.5% element to 0.5% might be a possibility but smacks of underhandedness.
    I can just see NI being extended to all income for future oldies but present oldies being exempted.
    Too complex. And what's the logic? Phase it in over 5 years maybe, alongside the triple lock.
    Not logic but personal fear that I'm going to get financially hit multiple ways while others get protected.

    I'm already assuming that my state pension age will be put back a year which is the equivalent of a £11k hit.

    Now I don't mind too much if all future earnings come under NI but I really don't want NI to be put on any income from my pension fund that I've already saved as that would be a few tens of thousands more.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
    Sadly it failed to gain enough traction to make significant dents in the Labour majority in 2001. I think they ended up photographing Humphrey (or perhaps a Manchurian-style stand in) with some newspapers to convince the public that they hadn't euthanased him.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 7

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    He did, he withdrew his candidates and told them to back Le Pen's opponent even if from the far left Corbynite Melenchon block
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,568
    edited July 7
    algarkirk said:

    Matthew Goodwin has had a shocker.

    Founded a polling company with the worst record of any pollster and thought Le Pen was a shoe in and she's losing.

    He is a grade A prat.

    Goodwin is a mixed bag, and needs a directional shift. As a politics academic who wrote readable books about the rise and meaning of populism he seems to me to have found a field which was simultaneously important, interesting, ignored and sold books. That was and is excellent.

    He should have stuck to his last, and provided the intellectual foundations of a much needed new conservatism, which cannot possibly be based on pretending there are simple solutions to complex problems. Which is why understanding Reform and co is very different from joining their agenda.

    I would like Goodwin to get out of selling subscriptions to pop substacks and polling, and write hard books and articles on how a conservative, rightist agenda can be turned into hard and detailed policy with proper underpinning in political philosophy. This is what academics are for.
    When you earn £60k as a lecturer, and see arseholes like Jordan Peterson earning £5m a year, you can see the temptation of becoming a youtube prick or a substack wanker.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Ghedebrav said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    In fairness to Macron as well, he took the great tactical advantage of the incumbent - the initiative - and used it.

    Contrast with Sunak who dithered and dilly-dallied when he should have gone to the nation *much* sooner; ideally (for him) immediately.
    At least Rishi didn't see his party come third as may happen to Macron's by the end of the night
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,009

    Why on earth do people threaten to flounce off when a poster irritates them? It's a shame, don't do it. Leon can be a bit irritating, particularly in his repetitiveness, but he is also very entertaining and quite amusing at times- if you don't like it, don't read it.

    A confession - there's a fair few posters on here who I find deeply irritating, and not usually for political reasons; it's the pompous, know-it-all, I could do a better job than any politician, public official or journalist type of posters who get on my nerves.
    But guess what? I just ignore them.

    Perfect response - well said
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 7
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    The so called far right surge in Europe never really happened.

    In the EU elections, it was really only RN and AfD, who seem to hate each other, and now the RN are coming THIRD in these assembly elections.

    Farage meanwhile (who I would necessarily call far right but some of the weird creatures floating about Refuk certainly are) only managed 4 seats.

    It has happened, at the last election in France RN had under 20 seats, now they're going to have over 200. It's not a majority but it's a huge boost to the party and if the hard left/centre left alliance continues to ignore immigration reform then that 40% ceiling will begin to approach 50% as we get to 2026 and the presidential election.
    Exit poll said 134-152. So far they have 131 with 123 seats to go.
    150 or so seems about right. That’s up from 89. It’s the Macronists who are the losers.
    Yes my suspicion is that its going to be Trots First, Le Pen Second and Macrons lot third but not far off an equal three way split, virtually impossible to form a stable government with macrons lot forced into a shaky coalition with PM Menchelon and LePens lot eating popcorn on the other side.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411
    Braverman not announcing her candidature but the NICE HAIR IS announcing her candidature.

    https://order-order.com/2024/07/07/braverman-says-parts-of-tory-party-still-want-more-of-the-same/
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    HYUFD said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    In fairness to Macron as well, he took the great tactical advantage of the incumbent - the initiative - and used it.

    Contrast with Sunak who dithered and dilly-dallied when he should have gone to the nation *much* sooner; ideally (for him) immediately.
    At least Rishi didn't see his party come third as may happen to Macron's by the end of the night
    No, but it wasn't for want of trying.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    He did, he withdrew his candidates and told them to back Le Pen's opponent even if from the far left Corbynite Melenchon block
    So are you saying the French people actually wanted to vote for Le Pen but somehow put their ticks in the centrist/left box instead?
  • Why on earth do people threaten to flounce off when a poster irritates them? It's a shame, don't do it. Leon can be a bit annoying, particularly in his repetitiveness, but he is also very entertaining and quite amusing at times- if you don't like it, don't read it. And if he insults you, he's quite happy for you to tell him to fuck off.

    A confession - there's a fair few posters on here who I find deeply irritating, and not usually for political reasons; it's the pompous, know-it-all, I could do a better job than any politician, public official or journalist type of posters who get on my nerves.
    But guess what? I just ignore them.

    How dare you be so sensible you stupid lunatic
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    MaxPB said:

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    He's right. Macron now has cohabitation with France's version of hard left Corbynists and Putin/Hamas supporters, that's going to make it impossible for them to address all of the issues that are driving French people into the arms of RN.
    But he doesn't.
    NFP, as I have been patiently trying to explain all evening, is a coalition for the purposes of this election.
    It stood one candidate in each constituency to get as many as possible through to the second round.
    It agrees on virtually nothing else. More than half of the elected deputies of the NFP will not be Far Left. They'll be folk who'd be very comfortable in Starmer's Labour government.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    He did, he withdrew his candidates and told them to back Le Pen's opponent even if from the far left Corbynite Melenchon block
    They didn't have to vote though.

    Macron's problem is that there looks to be a large majority for various forms of Truss/Farage/Corbyn economics.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    The Starmers have a cat, so Larry gets retired from Minister for rodent affairs.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    edited July 7

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    No, he is spot on.
    No, he isn't.

    They are not "blocking" Le Pen. The French people voted in a democratic election and they've voted against the far right.

    Goodwin as a Trump fan hates democracy and would be much more comfortable in a dictatorship.
    I follow a lot of Goodwin's writing. Where is his pro-Trump stuff?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Off to Le Bed in a second

    One point: France can be weirdly cheap

    This is the Luberon, a lavishly pretty corner of touristy Provence. Peter Mayle territory. Lots of gorgeous little viillages and sweet hilltop restaurants and rolling green vineyards. Surely boring as buggery in winter but lush in July

    I have arrived a day early, my friend’s house is available tomorrow. I have therefore rented a rustic 1 bed apartment with a little garden in a sweet village 2km from Mayle’s house. Price? Seventy euro….
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Leon said:

    The so called far right surge in Europe never really happened.

    In the EU elections, it was really only RN and AfD, who seem to hate each other, and now the RN are coming THIRD in these assembly elections.

    Farage meanwhile (who I would necessarily call far right but some of the weird creatures floating about Refuk certainly are) only managed 4 seats.

    And 4 million votes
    You didn't give a shit when the Lib Dems had 6 million votes. It's seats that count, unless or until Farage gets seats he will remain irrelevant.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    I imagine there may be a few seats where anti-RN voters have voted LR.

    The problem now is any Governkment formed will need to include either RN or NFP. I imagine Macron is hoping to cobble together something with NFP and LR but, as a man of the centre-right, would you prefer LR to support a minority RN government?

    It might be a position you have to face here in 2029 - would you, as a Conservative, support your party doing a deal with a minority Farage-led Reform Government?

    In other European countries, the established centre right party has been dominant over the insurgent populist anti-immigrant party (Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Sweden) but in France the roles are reversed.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100
    A prediction: Labour adds rules to make it harder for small parties and independents as a reaction to the election

    Not sure what it would look like but doubling the deposit would do the job
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    He's right. Macron now has cohabitation with France's version of hard left Corbynists and Putin/Hamas supporters, that's going to make it impossible for them to address all of the issues that are driving French people into the arms of RN.
    It is guaranteed chaos. I hereby predict Macron will call another election as soon as he can, as this is unworkable

    He can do that in a year’s time, I believe
    Yes he's going to have to. A coalition with the hard left is completely ungovernable. France is running a huge budget deficit right now and spending needs to be cut, there's no majority to do that now. France needs to secure it's borders as much as we do, but now there's a bunch of pro-immigration hard leftists in the ruling coalition who will never support any measures to reduce illegal immigration, especially from Islamic countries.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited July 7

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
    Sadly it failed to gain enough traction to make significant dents in the Labour majority in 2001. I think they ended up photographing Humphrey (or perhaps a Manchurian-style stand in) with some newspapers to convince the public that they hadn't euthanased him.
    Seeing as how Larry is now 17 year old, Tory fog machine may get another chance of resurrecting (ahem) the "Labour cat-killer danger!" line.

    ADDENDUM

    1724 > "Church in danger!"
    2024 > "Cat in danger!"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    But it isn't the far left block of Melenchon!!!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
    Starmer has a family cat called Jojo according to Sunday Times.

    Vic is worried that Larry and Jojo may not find common ground.
    Jojo as Secretary of State for Mousing and Lord Larry of Downing Street to the Lords?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
    Starmer has a family cat called Jojo according to Sunday Times.

    Vic is worried that Larry and Jojo may not find common ground.
    Larry is an aggy little bastard (witness his takedown of Palmerston and fearless chasing off of a fox).

    We had a cat just like that; no mucking about arch-back posturing, just get straight stuck in - even decent sized dogs would back off (“leave it Rover, he’s not worth it!).

    Jojo would likely not stand much of a chance against old (and he really is quite old now) Larry.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    Isn't that rather more young people voting Conservative than predicted ?
    By who(m)?
    By opinion polls reported here.

    No details I afraid so my memory might be wrong IIRC there were predictions of below 10% for the youngest age group.
    Presumably SOME predictions of below 10% for the yout?

    Note that subsample(s) would logically have pretty high margin of error; meaning that 14% youth-Con vote may well be within margin(s) of error for youngest voter cohort.
    Well I don't know but Sean Fear says its a swing to the right since 2019 so I'll leave it at that.
    As usual, @Sean_F is overegging the Conservative side of the story.

    In 2019, the 18-24 age group voted 62% Labour, 19% Conservative, 9% LD and 10% Others. The Focaldata numbers are Labour 47%, Conservative 14%, Green 14%, Reform 11% and LD 8%.

    Yes, a 5% swing to Conservative from Labour but Conservatives still down among younger voters and tied with Greens who are the big winners (Reform did well). Again, look at where the Greens won or did well and see the demographic profile of the seat - may be informative.
    I said a small shift to the right.
    Put your hands on your hips
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 7
    Imagine what it would have been like on here if at 3AM Galloways Workers Party standing on a joint ticket with Labour with Galloway as leader was leading with 140, Farage was second with 135 and the Libdems third with 133 with Tories fourth on 38


    NFP left-wing coalition (140)
    RN (incl. LR-RN) (135)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (133)
    LR (right) (38)
    Ind. right (15)
    Ind. left (10)
    Ind. center (6)
    Regionalists (4)
    Misc. (1)
    No Result Yet (95)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    Crossover klaxon!
    95 seats to go. Almost all around Paris.
    NFP 140 RN 135 Macron 133.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    .
    bobbob said:

    A prediction: Labour adds rules to make it harder for small parties and independents as a reaction to the election

    Not sure what it would look like but doubling the deposit would do the job

    I don't think bumping the deposit to the lofty heights of £1000 would change much.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    Check that out with our own @NickPalmer
    Outrageous rumour!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    He did, he withdrew his candidates and told them to back Le Pen's opponent even if from the far left Corbynite Melenchon block
    They didn't have to vote though.

    Macron's problem is that there looks to be a large majority for various forms of Truss/Farage/Corbyn economics.
    One fear I have is that allowing the far left into government could lead to President Le Pen. I'm not sure how he finesses this.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,796
    Leon said:

    Off to Le Bed in a second

    One point: France can be weirdly cheap

    This is the Luberon, a lavishly pretty corner of touristy Provence. Peter Mayle territory. Lots of gorgeous little viillages and sweet hilltop restaurants and rolling green vineyards. Surely boring as buggery in winter but lush in July

    I have arrived a day early, my friend’s house is available tomorrow. I have therefore rented a rustic 1 bed apartment with a little garden in a sweet village 2km from Mayle’s house. Price? Seventy euro….

    Feck, I have just been charged £100 for a soulless room in a 3* hotel in Glasgow which doesn't even have a kettle in it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411
    algarkirk said:

    Your truly just noted, that Larry the Cat the Chief Mouser to the Treasury, has been removed from wiki list of "Also Attending Cabinet" as part of new HMG (he was on this list when I looked 8 hours or so ago).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starmer_ministry

    DOES THIS MEAN that that Keir Starmer is demoting Britain's favorite feline?

    Would make better attack-line spin than the bilge PB right-wing wack-jobs been pumping since Thursday!

    Humphrey the Downing Street cat (as was) was evicted from Number 10 when Blair came into power in 97 (or so the story went). Apparently centrist Labour Governments aren't animal lovers.
    You get my point!
    Starmer has a family cat called Jojo according to Sunday Times.

    Vic is worried that Larry and Jojo may not find common ground.
    Jojo as Secretary of State for Mousing and Lord Larry of Downing Street to the Lords?
    Boris and Carrie had a flea ridden little dog, and they managed to make it work.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    Young radical right FR activists suddenly find out life is not always peaches and rosé:


    Populism Updates
    @PopulismUpdates

    Attendees at the National Rally's election watch party react to results of the exit poll (via
    @2022Elections)

    https://x.com/PopulismUpdates/status/1810033278461878569

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874



    The Tories need to understand why this is.

    The quickest way for the Tories to revive amongst the young is a Labour government mucking up the economy.

    The only times the Tories have won most under 35s in the last 50 years for example were 1979 and 2010 when that applied (plus 1983 as the SDP split the left of centre vote)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397

    Neck and neck and nearly neck

    NFP left-wing coalition (134)
    RN (incl. LR-RN) (134)
    Macron's coalition Ensemble (129)

    Things would look very different if the NFP hadn't moved very quickly to form an official coalition before the first round. They contain quite a disparate group of parties and it remains to be seen whether they will have any meaningful unity once the votes are counted.
    Thank goodness someone else sees this.
    They'll have none. The only surprise is they held it together this long.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,581

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    He did, he withdrew his candidates and told them to back Le Pen's opponent even if from the far left Corbynite Melenchon block
    They didn't have to vote though.

    Macron's problem is that there looks to be a large majority for various forms of Truss/Farage/Corbyn economics.
    One fear I have is that allowing the far left into government could lead to President Le Pen. I'm not sure how he finesses this.
    If he picks apart the left-wing bloc and cobbles together a centrist coalition then it could just exacerbate the problems that led France to this position.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,777
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    Huge day in France where elites are working overtime to block Le Pen. My take? She will only get stronger & stronger until those same elites address people's concerns over mass immigration, radical Islam & the erosion of Western societies

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1809975751350866201

    This is the sort of loopy nonsense I mean, Goodwin has completely gone off the deep end, something is up.

    He's right. Macron now has cohabitation with France's version of hard left Corbynists and Putin/Hamas supporters, that's going to make it impossible for them to address all of the issues that are driving French people into the arms of RN.
    But he doesn't.
    NFP, as I have been patiently trying to explain all evening, is a coalition for the purposes of this election.
    It stood one candidate in each constituency to get as many as possible through to the second round.
    It agrees on virtually nothing else. More than half of the elected deputies of the NFP will not be Far Left. They'll be folk who'd be very comfortable in Starmer's Labour government.
    But there's not going to be enough of them for a majority. He will be relying on the hard leftists to pass legislation or the hodge podge of minority parties and rump of LRs who hate him more than they hate Le Pen.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    If SKS had any sense, with this massive majority he would immediately scrap the stupid triple lock. But he won't.

    No, he's backed into a corner there. Extend NI to all income - that would raise enough to cover the cost of the triple lock for a few years.

    Reducing the 2.5% element to 0.5% might be a possibility but smacks of underhandedness.
    I can just see NI being extended to all income for future oldies but present oldies being exempted.
    Too complex. And what's the logic? Phase it in over 5 years maybe, alongside the triple lock.
    Not logic but personal fear that I'm going to get financially hit multiple ways while others get protected.

    I'm already assuming that my state pension age will be put back a year which is the equivalent of a £11k hit.

    Now I don't mind too much if all future earnings come under NI but I really don't want NI to be put on any income from my pension fund that I've already saved as that would be a few tens of thousands more.
    You've personally saved it from income that you didn't pay NI on. The logic for not taxing pensions savings on the way in is that they are taxed as income on the way out - true for ICT but NI is an omission.

    I understand that from a personal perspective it's currently it's unfair that working people pay higher rates of tax on their income than those not working. I would be hit by NI on pensions too btw.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,343

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    Macron hasn't blocked anything. The French people went out and voted, they voted against Le Pen.
    He did, he withdrew his candidates and told them to back Le Pen's opponent even if from the far left Corbynite Melenchon block
    They didn't have to vote though.

    Macron's problem is that there looks to be a large majority for various forms of Truss/Farage/Corbyn economics.
    LR and the Macronists and independent right and centre maybe reach 230 or so. My guess is a PM from that grouping would at least get some part of the left to abstain on a confidence vote, but they won’t achieve anything.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited July 7
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Utter disaster in the French legislative elections. All Macron's trying to block Le Pen's party winning them has resulted in is instead first place taken by the far left block of Melenchon. While tonight Macron's PM has had to tender his resignation anyway

    But it isn't the far left block of Melenchon!!!
    It is, Melenchon leads it and is as bad as Corbyn and even more economically illiterate and anti Israel and even more pro Putin than Le Pen
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Off to Le Bed in a second

    One point: France can be weirdly cheap

    This is the Luberon, a lavishly pretty corner of touristy Provence. Peter Mayle territory. Lots of gorgeous little viillages and sweet hilltop restaurants and rolling green vineyards. Surely boring as buggery in winter but lush in July

    I have arrived a day early, my friend’s house is available tomorrow. I have therefore rented a rustic 1 bed apartment with a little garden in a sweet village 2km from Mayle’s house. Price? Seventy euro….

    Feck, I have just been charged £100 for a soulless room in a 3* hotel in Glasgow which doesn't even have a kettle in it.
    I detest that modern trend of no tea and coffee making facilities in the room in some 'hotels' making you go down to the achingly hip "communal area" to get a cup of tea. Bugger OFF. Give me my shortbread and nescafe sachets.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    JohnO said:

    Don't forget that the hard left component of the NPF is probably just over a third of the total. The more moderate PS, Greens and even the rump of the Communists will have a clear majority of its MPs. That won't make forming a government any easier but whatever emerges will not be extreme dominated.

    Lord be praised. Thank you.
This discussion has been closed.