One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Maybe the answer is not the Battle of Verdun but use the example of the Treaty of Verdun, in the year 843, and divide France once again into three. As J Caesar said 900 years before that, Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres.
Surely a declaration that France is France, and under the steady and reliable hand of KC3. I see they've got the issue over the Atlantic too. The same easy solution.
Yes. In both rebellious states a reintroduction of a monarchy and the re-establishment of the church at the state religion - Episcopal for the USA, Gallican RC for France - would bring about the dullness required for modest and self controlled democracy.
What's it about a democratic rejection of racists and fascists that bothers you?
Melenchon is an anti-Semite and pro-Putin, and will now be a power-broker.
And your evidence for that?
This is the NPF policy:
"The NPF, presenting its policies on Friday, said its top priority if elected would be the cost of living crisis, which was “harming the lives and confidence of the French people”. It pledged to cap the price of essential foods, as well as electricity, gas and petrol.
The parties also said they would immediately reverse the unpopular pension changes pushed through last year by Macron’s government and return the French retirement age to 60, as well as overturning a more recent change to unemployment benefits and introducing a wealth tax.
They said France’s minimum wage and pension would be raised, while the NPF would also demand an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, recognise the state of Palestine, continue supplying necessary arms to Ukraine and legislate for carbon neutrality by 2050."
Indeed I suspect such a manifesto would have done well here last week.
Vive La France!
Did Free Owls get a mention?
I don't think the NPF policies are financially sound, but no worse than Reform or the Greens were.
Reform and Greens have a total of 9 MPs.
There's a majority for financially unsound in France.
Holidayed in Northern Spain last summer, shocked at how cheap it was to eat out. Turns out they'd capped fuel prices and supported the energy companies.
Of course the UK had an energy cap, and direct consumer subsidies, last year.
But the problem is not them being used in an emergency but being continually extended in time, size and scope.
If it's true that Le Pen's lot have come third, you've just got to laugh given all the predictions.
This is heading towards being one of the best political weeks of my long life.
Spare a thought for me.
Only the French have given me electoral joy this week.
FFS, I've had to rely on the French!
The French AND the British have definitely increased my personally jollity over the 4th of July loooooong weekend!
Definitely more than anything happening on this side of the Atlantic OR the Pacific.
Where we're waiting for decision by the Decider-in-Chief = Dr. Jill Biden.
It’s a good job Dr Jill is a doctor so she will be able to help Joe. She is a doctor isn’t she, like a real doctor and not one of those people who uses the title in a completely inappropriate way?
(Puts on outraged ex-academia inhabitant hat) It’s the medical doctors who use the title inappropriately I’ll have u no.
(I don’t get to use the title for either reason fwiw!)
"The projected breakdown among the left-wing parties was 68-74 seats for LFI, (Melenchon) 63-69 for the Socialists (basically Labour) 32-36 for the Greens, and 10-12 to the Communists (who are well to the centre of Melenchon).
The revival of the thought to be deceased Parti Socialiste is the story of this election. They'll be back up with LR in terms of representation.
I have no insight into this, but suspect Macron chooses a socialist as PM and deploys his Renaissance Party to support the PM's agenda as long as it's reasonably moderate.
320 results out of 577. RN 102. NFP 81 Macron 74 LR 30 Righties14 Lefties 8 Centrists6 Regions 4 And 1 miscellaneous. No idea who they are. Important to note. RN started with a big lead. Having got many more elected on the first round. Also. Paris and big cities polls stay open 2 hours longer. So these are mostly more rural results.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
I won my only serious election bet - against @TimS - and I was right about Biden - and now I’m talking about mosquitoes
The weird thing is that you’re’ the drama queen, you flounce more than anyone (even me)
"The projected breakdown among the left-wing parties was 68-74 seats for LFI, (Melenchon) 63-69 for the Socialists (basically Labour) 32-36 for the Greens, and 10-12 to the Communists (who are well to the centre of Melenchon).
The revival of the thought to be deceased Parti Socialiste is the story of this election. They'll be back up with LR in terms of representation.
I have no insight into this, but suspect Macron chooses a socialist as PM and deploys his Renaissance Party to support the PM's agenda as long as it's reasonably moderate.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
From what I can put together it seems like the 'far right' are going to get just under a third of the seats in France, an increase from what they had before, so the suggestion that they have been completely defeated is a bit optimistic.
I think I’ve actually arrived during the biannual Mosquito Festival
Mosquitoes have gathered from across the world - India, Malaysia, Egypt, Senegal, famous veterans from Brazil, huge mosquitoes like condors from Indonesia, they’re all here and tonight’s the traditional Bite a Brit opening ceremony
They are not mosquitos they are secret Russian Microdrones with a biopayload. By tomorrow you will be singing the praises of sundry hard left French pro putin trot parties.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Wot? I can tell Biden is senile without being a "medic" just as I can tell if someone is drunk or asleep or having a grand mal seizure. And it isn't Trumpian to want this recognised, it's Trumpian to hope Biden gets the nomination.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
I won my only serious election bet - against @TimS - and I was right about Biden - and now I’m talking about mosquitoes
The weird thing is that you’re’ the drama queen, you flounce more than anyone (even me)
I’m sure you’ll be back, so au revoir, Madame
The worst mosquitos I ever experienced were in Arles, on the edge of the Camargue. Surprised at the Luberon though.
Where, by the way, the RN seem to have won. In fact the RN have won everywhere that olives grow. And have lost everywhere that cattle graze.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Your enthusiasm and confidence for the last year or two has been very helpful to a centrist bedwetter like me. I thought I'd end my days under some demented Johnsonian Government without any non- Conservative breaks.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Why don't you just ignore people you don't agree with?
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Wot? I can tell Biden is senile without being a "medic" just as I can tell if someone is drunk or asleep or having a grand mal seizure. And it isn't Trumpian to want this recognised, it's Trumpian to hope Biden gets the nomination.
I don't need to be an anatomist to know that the late Sir Bob Reid had one arm.
More seriously I think this might be a rare if not unique occasion when @Roger is right
The name “Le Pen” is simply too toxic, her dad was an actual Nazi apologist who made jokes about gas chambers. It’s very hard to detoxify from that, tho she has had a damn good go, and she is a clever and cunning politician
Her party and her policies may only succeed, electorally (if they ever do) when they are not tainted by a leader called Le Pen
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Why don't you just ignore people you don't agree with?
Or just rebut and then leave it and not try to have the last word. Assuming that this isn't all elaborate sock puppetry
More seriously I think this might be a rare if not unique occasion when @Roger is right
The name “Le Pen” is simply too toxic, her dad was an actual Nazi apologist who made jokes about gas chambers. It’s very hard to detoxify from that, tho she has had a damn good go, and she is a clever and cunning politician
Her party and her policies may only succeed, electorally (if they ever do) when they are not tainted by a leader called Le Pen
Think that's true. Although Marine wasn't the RN candidate for PM. And neither was Melenchon for the NFP.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Your enthusiasm and confidence for the last year or two has been very helpful to a centrist bedwetter like me. I thought I'd end my days under some demented Johnsonian Government without any non- Conservative breaks.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
There's never been a time on PB when the abuse hasn't being going both ways on almost any issue.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Your enthusiasm and confidence for the last year or two has been very helpful to a centrist bedwetter like me. I thought I'd end my days under some demented Johnsonian Government without any non- Conservative breaks.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
I agree with your last paragraph, except remain<->leave was not a left-right issue, as (say) Corbyn and Rory showed.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Your enthusiasm and confidence for the last year or two has been very helpful to a centrist bedwetter like me. I thought I'd end my days under some demented Johnsonian Government without any non- Conservative breaks.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
There's never been a time on PB when the abuse hasn't being going both ways on almost any issue.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Why don't you just ignore people you don't agree with?
Because that would not allow Heathener to be the temporary centre of attention.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
Over 50% of Leons posts are about how much he likes Leon. I think I'm spotting something.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Why don't you just ignore people you don't agree with?
Because that would not allow Heathener to be the temporary centre of attention.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
I won my only serious election bet - against @TimS - and I was right about Biden - and now I’m talking about mosquitoes
The weird thing is that you’re’ the drama queen, you flounce more than anyone (even me)
I’m sure you’ll be back, so au revoir, Madame
The worst mosquitos I ever experienced were in Arles, on the edge of the Camargue. Surprised at the Luberon though.
Where, by the way, the RN seem to have won. In fact the RN have won everywhere that olives grow. And have lost everywhere that cattle graze.
The French counting is impressively quick. I know they use sampling for the exit poll - is the vote electronic, the counts are quicker than Sunderland !
I was in the gym listening in the municipal sauna to the political discussion. Essentially people were complaining about how the school let children choose their gender at age 5, that there will be no men in 20 years, just people with a penis as masculinity is being destroyed. Then the discussion moved on to how useless EV's are and the injustice of 'road tax', only 17% of it apparently gets spent on repairing the roads, everything else is spent on other things.
This did serve to reinforce my sense that the views held by the Reform party are quite widespread. It used to be that the Conservative party represented them but they went 'woke' in 2021 and I think this is a big historic cause of the current popularity of the Reform party. Had the tories just stuck consistently with the strategy set out in 2019 they may be in a better position now.
From what I can put together it seems like the 'far right' are going to get just under a third of the seats in France, an increase from what they had before, so the suggestion that they have been completely defeated is a bit optimistic.
Besides which, the panic to lock them out of power has resulted in the assembly of a makeshift alliance of almost everyone else. Almost everyone else agrees on nothing, save for the necessity of frustrating Madame Le Pen.
As TSE points out, how on Earth do you construct a government from two almost equal blocs of centrist economic liberals, and socialists who detest Macron and probably want to lower the retirement age to about 35? Fun and games...
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Why don't you just ignore people you don't agree with?
Because that would not allow Heathener to be the temporary centre of attention.
Leon only comes here for attention...
Which is why ignoring him is often the best thing to do.
The French counting is impressively quick. I know they use sampling for the exit poll - is the vote electronic, the counts are quicker than Sunderland !
Don't they count at each polling station, rather than hauling them over to a central site before beginning to count? Hence you get a final result from each commune? This enables the rural areas to be very quick, as they've very few votes to count in each location.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Why don't you just ignore people you don't agree with?
Because that would not allow Heathener to be the temporary centre of attention.
Leon only comes here for attention...
Which is why ignoring him is often the best thing to do.
More seriously I think this might be a rare if not unique occasion when @Roger is right
The name “Le Pen” is simply too toxic, her dad was an actual Nazi apologist who made jokes about gas chambers. It’s very hard to detoxify from that, tho she has had a damn good go, and she is a clever and cunning politician
Her party and her policies may only succeed, electorally (if they ever do) when they are not tainted by a leader called Le Pen
Think that's true. Although Marine wasn't the RN candidate for PM. And neither was Melenchon for the NFP.
But everyone knows she’s there. And the leader. And hoping to pounce on the presidency
This result suggests to me she can never win it, and maybe there is VALUE in betting against her
However she has built a formidable party machine and they aren’t going anywhere, and all the reasons she is popular are probably going to grow in salience - migration, Islamism, etc (but let’s hope not)
I can see her party finally winning when she leaves the scene, ironically - same way Sinn Fein took power once the actual terrorists buggered off
From what I can put together it seems like the 'far right' are going to get just under a third of the seats in France, an increase from what they had before, so the suggestion that they have been completely defeated is a bit optimistic.
Besides which, the panic to lock them out of power has resulted in the assembly of a makeshift alliance of almost everyone else. Almost everyone else agrees on nothing, save for the necessity of frustrating Madame Le Pen.
As TSE points out, how on Earth do you construct a government from two almost equal blocs of centrist economic liberals, and socialists who detest Macron and probably want to lower the retirement age to about 35? Fun and games...
It does imply though that the French really, really do not want a far right government.
What's it about a democratic rejection of racists and fascists that bothers you?
Melenchon is an anti-Semite and pro-Putin, and will now be a power-broker.
And your evidence for that?
This is the NPF policy:
"The NPF, presenting its policies on Friday, said its top priority if elected would be the cost of living crisis, which was “harming the lives and confidence of the French people”. It pledged to cap the price of essential foods, as well as electricity, gas and petrol.
The parties also said they would immediately reverse the unpopular pension changes pushed through last year by Macron’s government and return the French retirement age to 60, as well as overturning a more recent change to unemployment benefits and introducing a wealth tax.
They said France’s minimum wage and pension would be raised, while the NPF would also demand an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, recognise the state of Palestine, continue supplying necessary arms to Ukraine and legislate for carbon neutrality by 2050."
Indeed I suspect such a manifesto would have done well here last week.
Vive La France!
Did Free Owls get a mention?
I don't think the NPF policies are financially sound, but no worse than Reform or the Greens were.
Reform and Greens have a total of 9 MPs.
There's a majority for financially unsound in France.
Holidayed in Northern Spain last summer, shocked at how cheap it was to eat out. Turns out they'd capped fuel prices and supported the energy companies.
Of course the UK had an energy cap, and direct consumer subsidies, last year.
But the problem is not them being used in an emergency but being continually extended in time, size and scope.
Spain and Portugal seem to have prevented energy price inflation driving up costs across the whole economy.
I was in the gym listening in the municipal sauna to the political discussion. Essentially people were complaining about how the school let children choose their gender at age 5, that there will be no men in 20 years, just people with a penis as masculinity is being destroyed. Then the discussion moved on to how useless EV's are and the injustice of 'road tax', only 17% of it apparently gets spent on repairing the roads, everything else is spent on other things.
This did serve to reinforce my sense that the views held by the Reform party are quite widespread. It used to be that the Conservative party represented them but they went 'woke' in 2021 and I think this is a big historic cause of the current popularity of the Reform party. Had the tories just stuck with the strategy set out in 2019 they may be in a better position now.
They went woke after the 2005 election when Cameron won and ended the memberships right to choose candidates and imposed various proto lib dems and sundry public school nice but dims and spivs from central A lists on the local associations.
RN (incl. LR-RN) (113) NFP left-wing coalition (101) Macron's coalition Ensemble (99) LR (right) (35) Ind. right (14) Ind. left (8) Ind. center (6) Regionalists (4) Misc. (1) No result yet (196)
As I noted before upthread, two things. Firstly. RN started today with a large lead, on account of having many more elected on the first round. Second. Polls stay open two hours longer in cities, so these are mostly rural results coming in first.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
I won my only serious election bet - against @TimS - and I was right about Biden - and now I’m talking about mosquitoes
The weird thing is that you’re’ the drama queen, you flounce more than anyone (even me)
I’m sure you’ll be back, so au revoir, Madame
The worst mosquitos I ever experienced were in Arles, on the edge of the Camargue. Surprised at the Luberon though.
Where, by the way, the RN seem to have won. In fact the RN have won everywhere that olives grow. And have lost everywhere that cattle graze.
What about where poodles poop?
Où les chiens chient. That's all of France. You would hope the linguistics would give them a clue as to the essential point about dogs.
Perhaps the BBC just took it from a RN press release.
They're now reporting: Marine Le Pen, who co-leads the National Rally with Jordan Bardella, has just spoken to reporters. She is defiant, saying her party's "victory has only been delayed"
I was in the gym listening in the municipal sauna to the political discussion. Essentially people were complaining about how the school let children choose their gender at age 5, that there will be no men in 20 years, just people with a penis as masculinity is being destroyed. Then the discussion moved on to how useless EV's are and the injustice of 'road tax', only 17% of it apparently gets spent on repairing the roads, everything else is spent on other things.
This did serve to reinforce my sense that the views held by the Reform party are quite widespread. It used to be that the Conservative party represented them but they went 'woke' in 2021 and I think this is a big historic cause of the current popularity of the Reform party. Had the tories just stuck with the strategy set out in 2019 they may be in a better position now.
They went woke after the 2005 election when Cameron won and ended the memberships right to choose candidates and imposed various proto lib dems and sundry public school nice but dims and spivs from central A lists on the local associations.
Now it has come home to roost.
Johnson and Cameron were significantly more "woke" than Sunak who just produced the worst result in the Conservatives' history.
Perhaps you need to move on from the culture wars and think about why you actually lost as opposed to arguments you rehearse in front of the mirror every morning.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Your enthusiasm and confidence for the last year or two has been very helpful to a centrist bedwetter like me. I thought I'd end my days under some demented Johnsonian Government without any non- Conservative breaks.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
There's never been a time on PB when the abuse hasn't being going both ways on almost any issue.
I don't believe that to be true, generally it is very collegiate here, and yes there is banter but you can't deny Heathener has had it in the neck over her confidence regarding a Conservative defeat at the election.
From what I can put together it seems like the 'far right' are going to get just under a third of the seats in France, an increase from what they had before, so the suggestion that they have been completely defeated is a bit optimistic.
But at least we’re not going to get years of them whining about being the largest party that the nasty lefty establishment is still not willing to work with. Grievance quotient substantially diminished.
RN (incl. LR-RN) (113) NFP left-wing coalition (101) Macron's coalition Ensemble (99) LR (right) (35) Ind. right (14) Ind. left (8) Ind. center (6) Regionalists (4) Misc. (1) No result yet (196)
As I noted before upthread, two things. Firstly. RN started today with a large lead, on account of having many more elected on the first round. Second. Polls stay open two hours longer in cities, so these are mostly rural results coming in first.
On Round 1, they only won 39 seats to 32 for the Left. Overall, the Right wing parties could win a plurality, which is a big shift from 2022.
The French counting is impressively quick. I know they use sampling for the exit poll - is the vote electronic, the counts are quicker than Sunderland !
Don't they count at each polling station, rather than hauling them over to a central site before beginning to count? Hence you get a final result from each commune? This enables the rural areas to be very quick, as they've very few votes to count in each location.
Yes pretty sure it's counting at polling stations (which a lot of countries do).
There might be some electronic voting? but not a lot I think.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Your enthusiasm and confidence for the last year or two has been very helpful to a centrist bedwetter like me. I thought I'd end my days under some demented Johnsonian Government without any non- Conservative breaks.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
I agree with your last paragraph, except remain<->leave was not a left-right issue, as (say) Corbyn and Rory showed.
I didn't mention a left- right divide. It was strictly a Remain- Leave issue. However, many of those in the doldrums today were quite happy to attack "Remoaner losers".
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
Labour to seek joint declaration with EU on wide-ranging security pact
Exclusive: Foreign secretary says deal would allow UK work more closely with bloc on issues such as defence and energy
Labour is seeking a sweeping joint declaration with the EU to usher in a wide-ranging security pact covering defence, energy, the climate crisis, pandemics and even illegal migration, the foreign secretary, David Lammy, has said.
As part of the new government’s plan to reset its relations with the EU and bring “an end to the Brexit era”, Lammy told the Guardian that a broadly defined security deal would not undermine Labour’s commitment to remain outside the EU’s single market and customs union.
Under Labour plans, the pact would see the UK work more closely with the bloc on a slew of areas related to security, ideally without the need for a legally binding deal, which could take years to agree.
Lammy has also accepted an invitation from the EU foreign affairs chief, Josep Borrell, to attend the September meeting of the EU foreign affairs council – something that was rejected by the previous Conservative government.
It is rare for non-EU states to attend the foreign affairs council, and Labour thinks it may be possible to go on an irregular basis if the planned security pact develops
Be fascinating to think what would happen if we had the French system with about 500+ run-off elections due next week with every combination of run-off candidates imaginable.
I was in the gym listening in the municipal sauna to the political discussion. Essentially people were complaining about how the school let children choose their gender at age 5, that there will be no men in 20 years, just people with a penis as masculinity is being destroyed. Then the discussion moved on to how useless EV's are and the injustice of 'road tax', only 17% of it apparently gets spent on repairing the roads, everything else is spent on other things.
This did serve to reinforce my sense that the views held by the Reform party are quite widespread. It used to be that the Conservative party represented them but they went 'woke' in 2021 and I think this is a big historic cause of the current popularity of the Reform party. Had the tories just stuck with the strategy set out in 2019 they may be in a better position now.
They went woke after the 2005 election when Cameron won and ended the memberships right to choose candidates and imposed various proto lib dems and sundry public school nice but dims and spivs from central A lists on the local associations.
Now it has come home to roost.
Johnson and Cameron were significantly more "woke" than Sunak who just produced the worst result in the Conservatives' history.
Perhaps you need to move on from the culture wars and think about why you actually lost as opposed to arguments you rehearse in front of the mirror every morning.
I don't think Sunak or Johnson had the remotest interest in wokery. Cameron pretended to, to shore up his Heir to Blair credentials, but unconvincingly.
I was in the gym listening in the municipal sauna to the political discussion. Essentially people were complaining about how the school let children choose their gender at age 5, that there will be no men in 20 years, just people with a penis as masculinity is being destroyed. Then the discussion moved on to how useless EV's are and the injustice of 'road tax', only 17% of it apparently gets spent on repairing the roads, everything else is spent on other things.
This did serve to reinforce my sense that the views held by the Reform party are quite widespread. It used to be that the Conservative party represented them but they went 'woke' in 2021 and I think this is a big historic cause of the current popularity of the Reform party. Had the tories just stuck with the strategy set out in 2019 they may be in a better position now.
They went woke after the 2005 election when Cameron won and ended the memberships right to choose candidates and imposed various proto lib dems and sundry public school nice but dims and spivs from central A lists on the local associations.
Now it has come home to roost.
Johnson and Cameron were significantly more "woke" than Sunak who just produced the worst result in the Conservatives' history.
Perhaps you need to move on from the culture wars and think about why you actually lost as opposed to arguments you rehearse in front of the mirror every morning.
I don't think Sunak or Johnson had the remotest interest in wokery. Cameron pretended to, to shore up his Heir to Blair credentials, but unconvincingly.
Do you honestly think with the recent election results that there is any mileage in the anti-woke stuff? Really?
Labour to seek joint declaration with EU on wide-ranging security pact
Exclusive: Foreign secretary says deal would allow UK work more closely with bloc on issues such as defence and energy
Labour is seeking a sweeping joint declaration with the EU to usher in a wide-ranging security pact covering defence, energy, the climate crisis, pandemics and even illegal migration, the foreign secretary, David Lammy, has said.
As part of the new government’s plan to reset its relations with the EU and bring “an end to the Brexit era”, Lammy told the Guardian that a broadly defined security deal would not undermine Labour’s commitment to remain outside the EU’s single market and customs union.
Under Labour plans, the pact would see the UK work more closely with the bloc on a slew of areas related to security, ideally without the need for a legally binding deal, which could take years to agree.
Lammy has also accepted an invitation from the EU foreign affairs chief, Josep Borrell, to attend the September meeting of the EU foreign affairs council – something that was rejected by the previous Conservative government.
It is rare for non-EU states to attend the foreign affairs council, and Labour thinks it may be possible to go on an irregular basis if the planned security pact develops
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
I feel the same. I won't be here again after today. That's a guarantee.
Labour to seek joint declaration with EU on wide-ranging security pact
Exclusive: Foreign secretary says deal would allow UK work more closely with bloc on issues such as defence and energy
Labour is seeking a sweeping joint declaration with the EU to usher in a wide-ranging security pact covering defence, energy, the climate crisis, pandemics and even illegal migration, the foreign secretary, David Lammy, has said.
As part of the new government’s plan to reset its relations with the EU and bring “an end to the Brexit era”, Lammy told the Guardian that a broadly defined security deal would not undermine Labour’s commitment to remain outside the EU’s single market and customs union.
Under Labour plans, the pact would see the UK work more closely with the bloc on a slew of areas related to security, ideally without the need for a legally binding deal, which could take years to agree.
Lammy has also accepted an invitation from the EU foreign affairs chief, Josep Borrell, to attend the September meeting of the EU foreign affairs council – something that was rejected by the previous Conservative government.
It is rare for non-EU states to attend the foreign affairs council, and Labour thinks it may be possible to go on an irregular basis if the planned security pact develops
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
I feel the same. I won't be here again after today. That's a guarantee.
All you and @Heathener do is moan about me, I’m starting to suspect you are two sock puppets I have cleverly invented so as to get even more attention, but somehow I did it without realising. That’s how smart I am. Heh
One of the reasons I’m stepping back from this forum is the ridiculous aggression and downright abuse that accompanies @Leon ’s certitude.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
Over 50% of your posts are about how much you dislike Leon.
TBH I think she’s secretly got a crush
To me she is Fanny Price in Of Human Bondage.
And Leon is the PB fanny price expert.
I thought @TSE was the PB expert on the price of fanny.
Comments
This is a good running total from Le Monde.
He ‘may’ be right about Biden although he is not a medic. He might be right about various other things, but it’s all clouded in Trumpian aggression and abuse. He has been completely wrong about countless things including this latest aggression over the victory of the Far Right in France.
I’m tired of the nonsense. This was one of the few places left on the internet where people of different persuasions could objectively discuss the direction of politics in a way that informed not only the debate but also their bets.
I’ll leave it there.
Enjoy yourselves and be kind. And don’t believe all the extremists. There are enough decent people still left in this world, even across La Manche.
But the problem is not them being used in an emergency but being continually extended in time, size and scope.
(I don’t get to use the title for either reason fwiw!)
RN 102.
NFP 81
Macron 74
LR 30
Righties14
Lefties 8
Centrists6
Regions 4
And 1 miscellaneous. No idea who they are.
Important to note. RN started with a big lead. Having got many more elected on the first round.
Also. Paris and big cities polls stay open 2 hours longer. So these are mostly more rural results.
'Far right's historic moment may have to wait'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/ck7gydwgvy8t?post=asset:76bbf7b0-1298-4db5-83e8-9243bf68b139#post
The weird thing is that you’re’ the drama queen, you flounce more than anyone (even me)
I’m sure you’ll be back, so au revoir, Madame
Where, by the way, the RN seem to have won. In fact the RN have won everywhere that olives grow. And have lost everywhere that cattle graze.
I don't blame you though, and the reaction to the Conservative hurt on here would be normally be worthy of an arm around the shoulder, but they are so angry, best to leave them be..
But remember in 2016 when we were hurting, really hurting after the ludicrous Leave vote. Was there any helping hands across the divide? No, we were told "suck it up losers".
Crossover not far off.
The name “Le Pen” is simply too toxic, her dad was an actual Nazi apologist who made jokes about gas chambers. It’s very hard to detoxify from that, tho she has had a damn good go, and she is a clever and cunning politician
Her party and her policies may only succeed, electorally (if they ever do) when they are not tainted by a leader called Le Pen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rally
Although Marine wasn't the RN candidate for PM. And neither was Melenchon for the NFP.
Whatever Leon says will happen, the opposite does.
Wicked incompetence? OR visa-versa?
SKS should make changes to remove the membership vote from Labour for good.
This did serve to reinforce my sense that the views held by the Reform party are quite widespread. It used to be that the Conservative party represented them but they went 'woke' in 2021 and I think this is a big historic cause of the current popularity of the Reform party. Had the tories just stuck consistently with the strategy set out in 2019 they may be in a better position now.
As TSE points out, how on Earth do you construct a government from two almost equal blocs of centrist economic liberals, and socialists who detest Macron and probably want to lower the retirement age to about 35? Fun and games...
RN (incl. LR-RN) (113)
NFP left-wing coalition (101)
Macron's coalition Ensemble (99)
LR (right) (35)
Ind. right (14)
Ind. left (8)
Ind. center (6)
Regionalists (4)
Misc. (1)
No result yet (196)
Hence you get a final result from each commune?
This enables the rural areas to be very quick, as they've very few votes to count in each location.
This result suggests to me she can never win it, and maybe there is VALUE in betting against her
However she has built a formidable party machine and they aren’t going anywhere, and all the reasons she is popular are probably going to grow in salience - migration, Islamism, etc (but let’s hope not)
I can see her party finally winning when she leaves the scene, ironically - same way Sinn Fein took power once the actual terrorists buggered off
Les Républicains (Gaullists) slightly prefer Len so that depresses his vote somewhat. All left and centre voters prefer Mélenchon.
Le Pen is totally transfer unfriendly. She's essentially no-one's second choice.
All of the other left, centre and Gaullists parties are completely transfer friendly. Everyone chooses them rather than Le Pen as their second choice.
Founded a polling company with the worst record of any pollster and thought Le Pen was a shoe in and she's losing.
He is a grade A prat.
Now it has come home to roost.
Firstly. RN started today with a large lead, on account of having many more elected on the first round.
Second. Polls stay open two hours longer in cities, so these are mostly rural results coming in first.
They're now reporting:
Marine Le Pen, who co-leads the National Rally with Jordan Bardella, has just spoken to reporters.
She is defiant, saying her party's "victory has only been delayed"
Perhaps you need to move on from the culture wars and think about why you actually lost as opposed to arguments you rehearse in front of the mirror every morning.
2.
It does now feel like the far right are on the backfoot. Time for the centre to deliver once again.
There might be some electronic voting? but not a lot I think.
Exclusive: Foreign secretary says deal would allow UK work more closely with bloc on issues such as defence and energy
Labour is seeking a sweeping joint declaration with the EU to usher in a wide-ranging security pact covering defence, energy, the climate crisis, pandemics and even illegal migration, the foreign secretary, David Lammy, has said.
As part of the new government’s plan to reset its relations with the EU and bring “an end to the Brexit era”, Lammy told the Guardian that a broadly defined security deal would not undermine Labour’s commitment to remain outside the EU’s single market and customs union.
Under Labour plans, the pact would see the UK work more closely with the bloc on a slew of areas related to security, ideally without the need for a legally binding deal, which could take years to agree.
Lammy has also accepted an invitation from the EU foreign affairs chief, Josep Borrell, to attend the September meeting of the EU foreign affairs council – something that was rejected by the previous Conservative government.
It is rare for non-EU states to attend the foreign affairs council, and Labour thinks it may be possible to go on an irregular basis if the planned security pact develops
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/07/labour-to-seek-joint-declaration-with-eu-on-wide-ranging-security-pact