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If Peter Kellner is right then the back the Tories at 9s to win 150-199 seats – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    No changes...Southgate will wait until its too late.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Oh god it’s worse, that fucking idiot with the trumpet is back.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    No changes - what a clown
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Six passes back to our own goalkeeper in the first minute
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    boulay said:

    Oh god it’s worse, that fucking idiot with the trumpet is back.

    Steve Bray outside your house?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 643

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Canvassing anecdata from outer South West London (Sutton and Cheam).

    Interesting area: used to be a marginal Lib Dem / Tory seat and has flipped multiple times, but since 2015 has had large Tory majorities and is a “safe” seat. The environs should be conducive to the Tories: outer London, affected by the ULEZ extension, a lot of self employed, similar in feel to places like Bexley and Sidcup that are rock solid Conservative.

    I found quite a few Lib Dems and a number of tactical voters who would usually be Labour. 2 avowedly Tory households. Others who didn’t want to answer (I routinely record them as “not Lib Dem” or Conservative leaning). Nobody said they were voting Reform, but then they might well not say so to a Lib Dem canvasser.

    I would say it’s 50:50 there, at least in the wards we canvassed. Certainly no sense of complete Tory collapse. By contrast next door Carshalton looks fairly comfortable for Bobby Dean.

    Sutton and Cheam is the "odd one out" as far as Greater London is concerned, the only seat that has moved to the Tories recently compared to 1997/2001/2005.
    The interesting point here is that @TimS was sent to canvas in Sutton and Cheam rather than another more marginal Lib Dem target.

    The Lib Dems do appear to have widened their targeting.

    Whether that is wise we shall see.
    I also think it's interesting. It may reflect good morale = lots of activists and a good canvass has already been achieved in Wimbledon, Carshalton & Wallington and Esher & Walton. Local parties can probably handle the leaflet deliveries there. Many of the models have been showing it as a potential gain. and the LDs will have good historic records from council elections.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Leon said:

    lol. Slovakia

    This is the way the Southgate era ends. Suitably pathetic

    He should have been sacked after the euros of 2021. Letting him go on to the World Cup was an error. Keeping him on after THAT was criminally stupid

    What a waste of great players

    This tournament has been so poor that I'd be tempted to back Gareth Southgate in the next Conservative leader market. But even the Tory membership wouldn't be that mad. He's too woke for starters.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    boulay said:

    Oh god it’s worse, that fucking idiot with the trumpet is back.

    Can we swap him out for the trumpeter who follows the cricket team?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Goal!! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,937

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    How have US levels of debt and inequality changed ?
    Gini coefficient suggests the US has been getting more and more unequal since 1992, with a fairly noticeable drop since 2021.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/219643/gini-coefficient-for-us-individuals-families-and-households/

    Looking at the various charts I've posted, the weirdness of the GFC seems to be that every western economy *other* than the US seems to have been poleaxed by 2008 and never recovered, except the US, where it is a blip.

    I don't have an answer as to why this is the case.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    edited June 30
    It's coming home.

    Feck VAR.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548
    Offside?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 643

    100 Conservative seats puts the front line in places like Huntingdon, Romford and Poole.

    150 Conservative seats puts it in Ribble Valley, Lowestoft, Gillingham.

    200 Conservative seats puts it in Tunbridge Wells, Thurrock and Banbury.

    As others have said... Romford doesn't feel like the front line in a general election.

    Based on those seats then Con 150+ seems quite likely.

    As you say, not much evidence of serious campaigning in Romford so definitely we're looking at well above 100 unless the parties haven't a clue either (possible).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Disallowed
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    Must be offside.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,122
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    This is a very good advertisement for cricket.

    Because losing slowly is so much better?
    Because we get time for a 4-hour nap in the middle.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    No changes - what a clown

    The stubborn mule will probably get the crooked stick out in the 85th minute when they're 3-0 down.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Don't blame Gareth Southgate, the curse of Harry Kane is real.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    It’s the hope that kills you.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Finally England have woken up .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,122
    boulay said:

    Oh god it’s worse, that fucking idiot with the trumpet is back.

    Doesn't fit with football.

    Footy is worthy only of vuvuzelas.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited June 30
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    How have US levels of debt and inequality changed ?
    Gini coefficient suggests the US has been getting more and more unequal since 1992, with a fairly noticeable drop since 2021.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/219643/gini-coefficient-for-us-individuals-families-and-households/

    Looking at the various charts I've posted, the weirdness of the GFC seems to be that every western economy *other* than the US seems to have been poleaxed by 2008 and never recovered, except the US, where it is a blip.

    I don't have an answer as to why this is the case.
    That the US gets to run huge deficits must be a part. Well that and its huge natural resources, massive amount of land and historical good governance.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Kane has absolutely no pace.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    The time has come. He’s seen out his penance. Send for big Sam. 4-4-2 with a big man up front, and route one football. Nobody will expect it.
  • The FT comes out for Labour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Lucky escape there
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    Amateur hour.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 643
    I was talking to my daughter, who is in Brentwood and Ongar. She has decided to vote LD as the most likely to beat the Tories, in admittedly a very safe seat. (Also she said she actually preferred them to Labour, which surprised me). She says that most of her friends are doing the same for the same reason, as that seems to be the local consensus. Surprisingly her mother, who used to be a Conservative, is also voting LD to get the Tories out.

    And yet all the Tactical Voting sites say vote Labour here, which makes sense based on recent results. But academic anyway, even if the Tories are reduced to 20 seats this will be one of the 20!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541

    The FT comes out for Labour.

    They did in 1992, so no change.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    England are playing like they're defending a narrow one goal lead witg five minutes to go.
    To be fair, this is how England have always played, right back to the Sven era, regardless of the game situation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Can’t the manager tell the ones at the back that the goal we are trying to get to is at the other end?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    That was nearly the most embarrassing thing to happen to England since Gerrard fell over the ball.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    God I hate the German replay editors, who insist of showing slow motion shots when the action is taking place.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044

    Don't blame Gareth Southgate, the curse of Harry Kane is real.

    Can’t we just take him off, then ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Andy_JS said:

    God I hate the German replay editors, who insist of showing slow motion shots when the action is taking place.

    The host broadcaster is UEFA who use technical staff from all over world.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    There's no one clear answer. Two hints are firstly that the USA seems to recover quickly from periods of low growth, whereas when European countries start growing again, it's from a permanently lower baseline. Secondly, European countries have big companies but the USA has an extra top tier of mega-global-companies. That all being said, at high levels of GDP per capita, it's hard to know whether these small differences in growth rates of GDP matter, because we know the huge difference in levels of GDP doesn't matter. The USA is not two times better off than Europe, per capita; and maybe the GDP growth is in unnecessary medical diagnostics or prison places; all the labour productivity stats can tell you is that more money changes hands per worker.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    The yellow card allocation for this match has run out already?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    Why don't they take the ball to the goal line and cross back to forward-facing forwards instead of crossing from behind and risking offside?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    Why do I get sucked into watching these games ?
    I don’t even like football.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    PJH said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Canvassing anecdata from outer South West London (Sutton and Cheam).

    Interesting area: used to be a marginal Lib Dem / Tory seat and has flipped multiple times, but since 2015 has had large Tory majorities and is a “safe” seat. The environs should be conducive to the Tories: outer London, affected by the ULEZ extension, a lot of self employed, similar in feel to places like Bexley and Sidcup that are rock solid Conservative.

    I found quite a few Lib Dems and a number of tactical voters who would usually be Labour. 2 avowedly Tory households. Others who didn’t want to answer (I routinely record them as “not Lib Dem” or Conservative leaning). Nobody said they were voting Reform, but then they might well not say so to a Lib Dem canvasser.

    I would say it’s 50:50 there, at least in the wards we canvassed. Certainly no sense of complete Tory collapse. By contrast next door Carshalton looks fairly comfortable for Bobby Dean.

    Sutton and Cheam is the "odd one out" as far as Greater London is concerned, the only seat that has moved to the Tories recently compared to 1997/2001/2005.
    The interesting point here is that @TimS was sent to canvas in Sutton and Cheam rather than another more marginal Lib Dem target.

    The Lib Dems do appear to have widened their targeting.

    Whether that is wise we shall see.
    I also think it's interesting. It may reflect good morale = lots of activists and a good canvass has already been achieved in Wimbledon, Carshalton & Wallington and Esher & Walton. Local parties can probably handle the leaflet deliveries there. Many of the models have been showing it as a potential gain. and the LDs will have good historic records from council elections.
    There is a lot of positive feedback, the morale of this campaign compared to 2019 is day and night.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Nigelb said:

    Why do I get sucked into watching these games ?
    I don’t even like football.

    National unity.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    What a load of garbage, Pa Woolie wants Southgates head on a platter. And he confessed he didn't return his postal vote at all, its one vote for the recycling bin from the old man
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    RefUK are a bit useless at organising, because they don't have a candidate in Ed's seat in Doncaster North, which probably would have been one of their best targets from Labour had they had one.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Cicero said:

    PJH said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Canvassing anecdata from outer South West London (Sutton and Cheam).

    Interesting area: used to be a marginal Lib Dem / Tory seat and has flipped multiple times, but since 2015 has had large Tory majorities and is a “safe” seat. The environs should be conducive to the Tories: outer London, affected by the ULEZ extension, a lot of self employed, similar in feel to places like Bexley and Sidcup that are rock solid Conservative.

    I found quite a few Lib Dems and a number of tactical voters who would usually be Labour. 2 avowedly Tory households. Others who didn’t want to answer (I routinely record them as “not Lib Dem” or Conservative leaning). Nobody said they were voting Reform, but then they might well not say so to a Lib Dem canvasser.

    I would say it’s 50:50 there, at least in the wards we canvassed. Certainly no sense of complete Tory collapse. By contrast next door Carshalton looks fairly comfortable for Bobby Dean.

    Sutton and Cheam is the "odd one out" as far as Greater London is concerned, the only seat that has moved to the Tories recently compared to 1997/2001/2005.
    The interesting point here is that @TimS was sent to canvas in Sutton and Cheam rather than another more marginal Lib Dem target.

    The Lib Dems do appear to have widened their targeting.

    Whether that is wise we shall see.
    I also think it's interesting. It may reflect good morale = lots of activists and a good canvass has already been achieved in Wimbledon, Carshalton & Wallington and Esher & Walton. Local parties can probably handle the leaflet deliveries there. Many of the models have been showing it as a potential gain. and the LDs will have good historic records from council elections.
    There is a lot of positive feedback, the morale of this campaign compared to 2019 is day and night.
    I asked about Wimbledon. Closer there than Carshalton because of the split vote with Labour. They were fairly confident Lib Dems are well ahead of Labour but tactical voting messages not landing as strongly as next door.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    tbf England are quite good at passing to each other within their own half
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Nigelb said:

    Why do I get sucked into watching these games ?
    I don’t even like football.

    National unity.
    Going through misery and suffering together, basically the story of the nation for almost the whole of the last fourteen years.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    geoffw said:

    tbf England are quite good at passing to each other within their own half

    i.e. when nobody is trying to take the ball off them?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    About 30 minutes until the French exit poll. Both sides of the channel heading for seismic GE results, it feels.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,513
    pigeon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Why do I get sucked into watching these games ?
    I don’t even like football.

    National unity.
    Going through misery and suffering together, basically the story of the nation for almost the whole of the last fourteen years.
    The last 30 at least.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    geoffw said:

    tbf England are quite good at passing to each other within their own half

    The 90s and early 2000s teams never had enough possession but they would have disposed of Slovakia. This mob has reversed that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    If you’re in despair about English football, don’t give in the the darkness. Remember that we took the knee more than anyone, so we have already won the World Cup of desperately embarrassing and pointless virtue signaling and we are well on the way to winning the intergalactic League of Irreducible Cringe
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    Cookie said:

    geoffw said:

    tbf England are quite good at passing to each other within their own half

    i.e. when nobody is trying to take the ball off them?
    There had to be an explanation
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    11 David Batty's sitting on a wall..........
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 30
    PJH said:

    I was talking to my daughter, who is in Brentwood and Ongar. She has decided to vote LD as the most likely to beat the Tories, in admittedly a very safe seat. (Also she said she actually preferred them to Labour, which surprised me). She says that most of her friends are doing the same for the same reason, as that seems to be the local consensus. Surprisingly her mother, who used to be a Conservative, is also voting LD to get the Tories out.

    And yet all the Tactical Voting sites say vote Labour here, which makes sense based on recent results. But academic anyway, even if the Tories are reduced to 20 seats this will be one of the 20!

    Yes I am in that seat now, Labour were second last time in B and O so if she votes LD that is actually great news for Alex Burghart,

    The LDs were a close third but the Labour voteshare there will be up more than the LD vote this year on current polls
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    I was talking to my daughter, who is in Brentwood and Ongar. She has decided to vote LD as the most likely to beat the Tories, in admittedly a very safe seat. (Also she said she actually preferred them to Labour, which surprised me). She says that most of her friends are doing the same for the same reason, as that seems to be the local consensus. Surprisingly her mother, who used to be a Conservative, is also voting LD to get the Tories out.

    And yet all the Tactical Voting sites say vote Labour here, which makes sense based on recent results. But academic anyway, even if the Tories are reduced to 20 seats this will be one of the 20!

    Yes I am in that seat now, Labour were second last time in B and O so if she votes LD that is actually great news for Alex Burghart
    B&O, as in Gerald Kaufman’s hi-fi dealer?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    TimS said:

    Cicero said:

    PJH said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Canvassing anecdata from outer South West London (Sutton and Cheam).

    Interesting area: used to be a marginal Lib Dem / Tory seat and has flipped multiple times, but since 2015 has had large Tory majorities and is a “safe” seat. The environs should be conducive to the Tories: outer London, affected by the ULEZ extension, a lot of self employed, similar in feel to places like Bexley and Sidcup that are rock solid Conservative.

    I found quite a few Lib Dems and a number of tactical voters who would usually be Labour. 2 avowedly Tory households. Others who didn’t want to answer (I routinely record them as “not Lib Dem” or Conservative leaning). Nobody said they were voting Reform, but then they might well not say so to a Lib Dem canvasser.

    I would say it’s 50:50 there, at least in the wards we canvassed. Certainly no sense of complete Tory collapse. By contrast next door Carshalton looks fairly comfortable for Bobby Dean.

    Sutton and Cheam is the "odd one out" as far as Greater London is concerned, the only seat that has moved to the Tories recently compared to 1997/2001/2005.
    The interesting point here is that @TimS was sent to canvas in Sutton and Cheam rather than another more marginal Lib Dem target.

    The Lib Dems do appear to have widened their targeting.

    Whether that is wise we shall see.
    I also think it's interesting. It may reflect good morale = lots of activists and a good canvass has already been achieved in Wimbledon, Carshalton & Wallington and Esher & Walton. Local parties can probably handle the leaflet deliveries there. Many of the models have been showing it as a potential gain. and the LDs will have good historic records from council elections.
    There is a lot of positive feedback, the morale of this campaign compared to 2019 is day and night.
    I asked about Wimbledon. Closer there than Carshalton because of the split vote with Labour. They were fairly confident Lib Dems are well ahead of Labour but tactical voting messages not landing as strongly as next door.
    Regardless of what happens on Thursday, and I hope it isn't a damp squib for the LDs, it has been one of the most fun elections I have been involved in. That might have something to do with the fact that this election is one in which I have had so much less responsibility for than previous elections, so I can enjoy it more, but generally I think it has been fun anyway. The Guildford LDs appear to be a fun crowd and there have been a lot of laughs along the way.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    I hated Gareth Southgate before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Leon said:

    I hated Gareth Southgate before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters

    'I hated Rishi Sunak before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters'
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    The other little bit of canvassing insight I can offer: the South Asian community in SW London doesn’t seem to be uniformly falling in behind Sunak as some have speculated. Almost half of my Lib Dem definites today were Asian, several working in the local hospital. But one of the Tory households was Asian too. Another was Russian.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    Why are we constantly running down the clock when we’re 1-0 down ?
    I don’t understand football, but it does seem quite odd.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Where the hell are the subs?
  • Leon said:

    I hated Gareth Southgate before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters

    His choice of penalty takers in finals was certainly odd, and detrimental to those who got chosen.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    Can we sub on Ben Stokes? Genuinely think he would improve things…
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    15 minutes left and he’s made one sodding substitution.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044

    Where the hell are the subs?

    Keeping them fresh for extra time…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    boulay said:

    15 minutes left and he’s made one sodding substitution.

    Ridiculous.
  • biggles said:

    Can we sub on Ben Stokes? Genuinely think he would improve things…

    Thats what South Africa needed at the end of yesterdays match.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    UK & Europe: austerity. USA: Uncle Sam: spraying money about. Turns out Keynes was right.
    Yet, US public services are worse than those of most rich world countries. For them, austerity is permanent.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    edited June 30
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    I was talking to my daughter, who is in Brentwood and Ongar. She has decided to vote LD as the most likely to beat the Tories, in admittedly a very safe seat. (Also she said she actually preferred them to Labour, which surprised me). She says that most of her friends are doing the same for the same reason, as that seems to be the local consensus. Surprisingly her mother, who used to be a Conservative, is also voting LD to get the Tories out.

    And yet all the Tactical Voting sites say vote Labour here, which makes sense based on recent results. But academic anyway, even if the Tories are reduced to 20 seats this will be one of the 20!

    Yes I am in that seat now, Labour were second last time in B and O so if she votes LD that is actually great news for Alex Burghart
    B&O, as in Gerald Kaufman’s hi-fi dealer?
    I once knew a gorgeous Danish lady with the Olufsen surname, took all my self control to not the make the B joke.

    Can you believe there are people who think Bose are better than Bang & Olufsen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    edited June 30
    Harry Kane!!!!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Goal kick.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    Nigelb said:

    Why are we constantly running down the clock when we’re 1-0 down ?
    I don’t understand football, but it does seem quite odd.

    That's what England always do and have always done since about 2005. I can only imagine its because they're hating every minute and would just rather not be there.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Is Southgate the mole in CCHQ?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    About 30 minutes until the French exit poll. Both sides of the channel heading for seismic GE results, it feels.

    Polls opened at 0600 GMT and will close at 1600 GMT in small towns and cities, with an 1800 GMT finish in the bigger cities, when the first exit polls for the night and seat projections for the decisive second round a week later are expected.

    Participation was high, underlining how France's rumbling political crisis has energized the electorate. By 1500 GMT, turnout was nearly 60%, compared with 39.42% two years ago - the highest comparable turnout figures since the 1986 legislative vote, Ipsos France's research director Mathieu Gallard said.

    France's electoral system can make it hard to estimate the precise distribution of seats in the 577-seat National Assembly, and the final outcome will not be known until the end of the second round of voting on July 7.


    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-vote-election-that-could-put-far-right-government-2024-06-30/

    No idea of the possible implications for a strong RN performance of very high turnout, but it's notable how this election seems to have energised voters in a manner that our own impending change of Government hasn't. Probably because the UK result is viewed as a foregone conclusion.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    Sean_F said:

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    UK & Europe: austerity. USA: Uncle Sam: spraying money about. Turns out Keynes was right.
    Yet, US public services are worse than those of most rich world countries. For them, austerity is permanent.
    There’s a lot in that. People focus too much on their healthcare. The rest is crap too. Nothing ever bloody works, and just when you think their capitalism would help, it turns out then are corporatists. I was amazed when a mate of there told me what cable tv and phone cost him, compared to what you get here when Sky and Virgin compete, just to give one example.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    edited June 30
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    I hated Gareth Southgate before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters

    'I hated Rishi Sunak before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters'
    The tailoring is usually the giveaway. Sunak trousers, Southgate those dickhead waistcoats.


    Sir Keirs black shirts do not give me a good feeling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548
    Southgate has frozen in the headlights.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Take Mainoo, he's sooooo good. Take Bellingham, he's world class
    Fucking garbage merchants
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    If they are out today I hope they don’t give Southgate the chance to resign and just announce he’s sacked at the whistle.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    So close, yet so far…
  • biggles said:

    Sean_F said:

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    UK & Europe: austerity. USA: Uncle Sam: spraying money about. Turns out Keynes was right.
    Yet, US public services are worse than those of most rich world countries. For them, austerity is permanent.
    There’s a lot in that. People focus too much on their healthcare. The rest is crap too. Nothing ever bloody works, and just when you think their capitalism would help, it turns out then are corporatists. I was amazed when a mate of there told me what cable tv and phone cost him, compared to what you get here when Sky and Virgin compete, just to give one example.
    @rcs1000 might have more accurate information, but as I understand it, food prices are now eyewatering in their supermarkets and restaurants.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    They just don’t look as if they give a shit (except a few like Mainoo and Rice). Again, compare and contrast with Stokes batting on one leg.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    biggles said:

    Can we sub on Ben Stokes? Genuinely think he would improve things…

    I could probably improve things and I'm nearly fifty with little sense of balance or coordination and a busted knee.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Leon said:

    I hated Gareth Southgate before it was fashionable. Just went to point that out. Even when everyone else was saying what a nice man he is I was pointing out that he is also a LOSER. Its written all over his stupidly narrow face in extra narrow letters

    Are you enjoying Kane’s ‘Respect’ captain’s armband? You can get one on eBay for £160.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    St Malo is a bit of alright

    This is way the Southgate era ends, not with a bang but near Quimper

    Thanks. I’m here til Tuesday. Try the oysters
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    UK & Europe: austerity. USA: Uncle Sam: spraying money about. Turns out Keynes was right.
    On the contrary, in both the UK and the USA, debt to GDP ratios have gone up by 60% of GDP since the mid-2000s, so there is no evidence that the USA leveraged its way out of recessions while the UK sternly saved. It's true that the USA debt to GDP ratio has been persistently higher by around twenty percentage points, and perhaps this wedge of cheap debt ended up financing other parts of their economy, like housing (through Fannie and Freddie).
  • Are they still taking the knee (not watching the match and letting you lot keep me up to date for the same blood pressure reasons as not watching Question time).
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    Start the car, as a great man used to say at the cricket.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    One thing we’re really good at: giving small, uncelebrated countries wonderful nights of success. We are very generous like that.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 643
    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    I was talking to my daughter, who is in Brentwood and Ongar. She has decided to vote LD as the most likely to beat the Tories, in admittedly a very safe seat. (Also she said she actually preferred them to Labour, which surprised me). She says that most of her friends are doing the same for the same reason, as that seems to be the local consensus. Surprisingly her mother, who used to be a Conservative, is also voting LD to get the Tories out.

    And yet all the Tactical Voting sites say vote Labour here, which makes sense based on recent results. But academic anyway, even if the Tories are reduced to 20 seats this will be one of the 20!

    Yes I am in that seat now, Labour were second last time in B and O so if she votes LD that is actually great news for Alex Burghart,

    The LDs were a close third but the Labour voteshare there will be up more than the LD vote this year on current polls
    LDs are strong in Brentwood but the rest of the seat is very solid Tory, isn't it? The LD candidate is a local councillor and I think fairly well known (my ex has met him through his business and thinks he is a decent guy), and has stood a few times before. So maybe a seat where LD and labour switch round, but tbh I can't see that it matters there in the slightest.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Yeah bring on a Crystal Palace player for 6 minutes
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414
    HYUFD said:

    PJH said:

    I was talking to my daughter, who is in Brentwood and Ongar. She has decided to vote LD as the most likely to beat the Tories, in admittedly a very safe seat. (Also she said she actually preferred them to Labour, which surprised me). She says that most of her friends are doing the same for the same reason, as that seems to be the local consensus. Surprisingly her mother, who used to be a Conservative, is also voting LD to get the Tories out.

    And yet all the Tactical Voting sites say vote Labour here, which makes sense based on recent results. But academic anyway, even if the Tories are reduced to 20 seats this will be one of the 20!

    Yes I am in that seat now, Labour were second last time in B and O so if she votes LD that is actually great news for Alex Burghart,

    The LDs were a close third but the Labour voteshare there will be up more than the LD vote this year on current polls
    Used to be a big LibDem vote there. Ran, or came close to running, the council IIRC.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    Leon said:

    St Malo is a bit of alright

    This is way the Southgate era ends, not with a bang but near Quimper

    Thanks. I’m here til Tuesday. Try the oysters

    Last time I was in St. Malo there was a plague of ladybirds. Absolutely millions of them. With every step you were having to brush ladybirds off yourself. It was quite unpleasant.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Are they still taking the knee (not watching the match and letting you lot keep me up to date for the same blood pressure reasons as not watching Question time).

    I don't think so.

    I'm currently half-watching a documentary about otters.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    He’s still only made 2 changes 😂
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    EPG said:

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    UK & Europe: austerity. USA: Uncle Sam: spraying money about. Turns out Keynes was right.
    On the contrary, in both the UK and the USA, debt to GDP ratios have gone up by 60% of GDP since the mid-2000s, so there is no evidence that the USA leveraged its way out of recessions while the UK sternly saved. It's true that the USA debt to GDP ratio has been persistently higher by around twenty percentage points, and perhaps this wedge of cheap debt ended up financing other parts of their economy, like housing (through Fannie and Freddie).
    The difference is that the US debt levels simply don’t affect their currency exchange rate, in the same way as would happen with any other country, thanks to the US$’s status as the world reserve currency.

    But we are seeing cracks there in recent weeks, with China and Saudi agreeing to start to price oil in RMB.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,050
    I don’t even really want them to win any more. Would be unjust. They don’t care so why should I?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    This result will have a material impact on ITVs profits for this year...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Even Oceangate made better subs than Southgate

    https://x.com/Get_effed/status/1807460557483561206
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    Leon said:

    St Malo is a bit of alright

    This is way the Southgate era ends, not with a bang but near Quimper

    Thanks. I’m here til Tuesday. Try the oysters

    Chapeau.
This discussion has been closed.