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If Peter Kellner is right then the back the Tories at 9s to win 150-199 seats – politicalbetting.com

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  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    No mention there of an M60 postcode area?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    England = the Tory campaign
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    I have Slovakia in the work sweepstake, so.

    Bit like being sentenced to five years, then finding out it’s in HMP Wandsworth.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    edited June 30
    At half time:

    - Alexander Arnold on for Trippier, who swaps with Walker.

    - Gordon on for Foden/Bellingham and over to the left.

    - A striker….
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    No mention there of an M60 postcode area?
    M60 is used for Post Office boxes for businesses in M1-4 postcodes...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChloeKeedyITV

    In an i/v with my colleague @CaronBellITV, Ed Davey confirmed he’s expanded his list of potentially winnable seats in the West Country as ‘people who were thinking of voting Labour are coming back to us because they know the Libs are the only party that can beat Conservatives’

    St Ives
    North Cornwall
    North Devon
    South Devon
    Torbay
    Yeovil
    Taunton & Wellington
    Wells & Mendip Hills
    West Dorset
    Mid Dorset & North Poole
    South Cotswolds
    North Cotswolds

    The Cotswolds aren't in the West Country. Unless your definition of West Country starts at Heathrow Airport.
    That far West? Doesn’t it start at Hogarth Roundabout, or is it Hammersmith Flyover?
    Poor old Hogarth.

    One of the great English writers of "antiquity"

    And as soon as his name is mentioned the suffix "Roundabout" springs to mind.

    And a flyover made of Meccano.
    Is that Meccano flyover still there? Amazed it wasn’t condemned and replaced decades ago, I used to go over it every week a quarter of a century ago, and it used to rattle and sway in the wind even then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 30
    biggles said:

    No way we come back from here. FFS. It’s going to be a humiliation.

    Even in the last period of John Major's dying Tory government we still managed to reach a semi final of a Euros...poor Rishi, as if it couldn't get any worse. Next he will be doing a pizza advert with Gareth Southgate!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548
    "Even Derby County the Italians are laughing at us...."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Next goal is critical. If Slovakia get it then it really is all over.
  • Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    M60 is certainly not a Manchester Postcode. An outrageous suggestion.

    After the S postcode got abolished in London, somewhere else had it for decades before being illegally occupied by Manchester in post office terms and Sheffield stealing their postcode prefix like the Elgin Marbles.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Kellner is broadly in the right ball park but unless the Tories can squeeze Reform a bit more next week to get to 25%+ I am still expecting 100-150 Tory seats

    This still feels like the most likely outcome to me.

    The FT's endorsement of Labour today is also worth a read. Even handed about Labour's challenges and issues, v. the need for an effective opposition. They also emphasise "effective" - 150 Conservatives on the opposition bench, fighting amongst themselves is not "effective" and is part of the problem of the last 15 years.
    "150 Conservative MPs - wow ... you're optimistic! The polls are suggesting support levels of around 19% - 21% which probably translates into around 80 - 110 seats, depending on turnout, etc. How did you succeed in finding another 40 - 70 seats?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    edited June 30
    DavidL said:

    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?

    You want Gordon higher as a proper winger. Trent for Trippier, who then swaps with Walker.

    And Gordon as well, higher up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    "Even Derby County the Italians are laughing at us...."

    Sports news in the Italian papers this morning is headed “Il Day After”



  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Lot of parallels with the Italy-Switzerland game here. The bigger, theoretically more fancied team lacking energy and motivation up against a spirited underdog.

    I think we’re going out here.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    No mention there of an M60 postcode area?
    M60 is used for Post Office boxes for businesses in M1-4 postcodes...
    Oh, I see. Not really geographical then.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    I don’t think the ref enjoys football very much.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956

    biggles said:

    pigeon said:

    biggles said:

    Oh FFS. We should have sent a team of Championship players.

    Have they started losing already? I'm fiddling with my tablet, with BBC1 on as background noise. I couldn't bear the agony.
    I wouldn’t bother if I were you. Some comedy defending you won’t see in non-league: and the defence has been fairly positive.
    I am reminded of a Downfall spoof at the time of Gordon Brown.

    "Even Derby County are laughing at us..."
    Ay ... ay ... ay MM, that's quite enough of that. I'm back in case you hadn't noticed!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?

    You want Gordon higher as a proper winger. Trent for Trippier, who then swaps with Walker.

    And Gordon as well, higher up.
    I think basically England need to go back in time a few years and change history so that they've practiced before the tournament.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    edited June 30
    You have to wonder what drugs the FA were on by letting Southgate continue
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Woeful from England so far . Still expect them to scrape through but really it’s painful to watch .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    nico679 said:

    Woeful from England so far . Still expect them to scrape through but really it’s painful to watch .

    Optimist.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?

    You want Gordon higher as a proper winger. Trent for Trippier, who then swaps with Walker.

    And Gordon as well, higher up.
    I think basically England need to go back in time a few years and change history so that they've practiced before the tournament.
    That’s cheating! That’s what foreigners do! They practice beforehand, which spoils the fun.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    nico679 said:

    Woeful from England so far . Still expect them to scrape through but really it’s painful to watch .

    I don’t. We are utter crap
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    edited June 30
    Financial Times endorses Labour

    https://www.ft.com/content/2290c1f7-a4cb-4fe1-9b69-b0c8ca17f070

    Despite proclaiming itself the party of wealth creation, a Labour government could well end up targeting wealth creators.

    Few political options, though, are ever ideal. Britain must choose between a polarising Conservative party that has limited its appeal to an ever-narrower segment of the population, and a Labour party that appears to want to govern for the whole country. The risks of sticking with the exhausted incumbents outweigh those of bringing in a new government. Much of the country hankers for a fresh start. Labour should be given the opportunity to provide it.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    nico679 said:

    Woeful from England so far . Still expect them to scrape through but really it’s painful to watch .

    I had assumed that at some stage we’d see a bit of a reversion to the mean. But….
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    On the plus side I got Slovakia at silly odds to win the tournament earlier, thinking it was a decent trading bet. Already nicely in the green…
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    You have to wonder what drugs the FA were on by letting Southgate continue

    Mogadon is the obvious candidate.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    dixiedean said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cicero said:

    carnforth said:

    Turnout has so far been higher than expected and seems to be bucking the trend of recent years.

    By midday, it was 26% - the highest in more than 40 years.
    https://x.com/mathieugallard/status/1807353872031117578

    Any idea which parties that helps?
    Might not be good news for Le Pen.
    The two biggest increases in turnout are in Paris, which should favour the Left, and Bouches de Rhone, which should favour RN.
    Yes, but does it?
    These are constituency elections. If people are turning out who don't normally vote, then it shouldn't be assumed they are voting for the Party who usually wins.
    And if they are it makes bugger all difference to the results anyways.
    There’s a clear pattern. The biggest increases in turnout are in rightward voting areas.

    That may not be good news for RN, as these could be Republicans and Macronists, but it is certainly not good news for the NPF.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    I don't recall a tournament in which expectations for England were so low. And they have still managed to fall short of them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    biggles said:

    I don’t think the ref enjoys football very much.

    Well, he's got the right match.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Cookie said:

    I don't recall a tournament in which expectations for England were so low. And they have still managed to fall short of them.

    England were the favourites for this tournament.

    Traitorous English capitalists advised laying England.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,937
    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    Could all Conservatives have just gone very very quiet?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    MattW said:

    This is a very good advertisement for cricket.

    Because losing slowly is so much better?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548
    The M&S Board must be ruing their sponsorship deal with England...
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    biggles said:

    On the plus side I got Slovakia at silly odds to win the tournament earlier, thinking it was a decent trading bet. Already nicely in the green…

    Very nice! On a similar one - I tipped Austria as a trading bet at 25.0 after they won the group - they are now 17.5, and if it stays like this - their path to the final might be Turkey, Romania and Switzerland!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?

    You want Gordon higher as a proper winger. Trent for Trippier, who then swaps with Walker.

    And Gordon as well, higher up.
    I think basically England need to go back in time a few years and change history so that they've practiced before the tournament.
    They should watch the Lionesses. They seem focused on making opportunities and expect a hatful of goals against mediocre opposition. And, you know, playing as a team, work as a unit, that sort of thing.
  • DavidL said:

    You have to wonder what drugs the FA were on by letting Southgate continue

    Mogadon is the obvious candidate.
    Whats this got to do with Sir Geoffery Howe?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    My view is that growth will be reasonable for the next few years, as the economy returns to the trend that was interrupted in 2020-23.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    edited June 30
    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,937
    Farooq said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    Brexit and Covid started at basically the same time. How can you separate them in the data?
    Brexit, 2016. Covid, 2020.

    If you view the chart on the FT website you will see a clear start point for the decline (the FT chart marks it as 'GFC') but no blip in 2016 on any of the four key measures, but a clear drop in GDP and GDP per head in 2020:

    https://www.ft.com/content/2290c1f7-a4cb-4fe1-9b69-b0c8ca17f070
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    No mention there of an M60 postcode area?
    M60 is used for Post Office boxes for businesses in M1-4 postcodes...
    M60 is the elliptical galaxy NGC 4649 in Virgo
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048

    Could all Conservatives have just gone very very quiet?

    They all went on holiday and will be furious to find out what we elected while they were away.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    The M&S Board must be ruing their sponsorship deal with England...

    Just think how many of those vile off-white zip up polo shirts they are going to have to find landfill space for.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    What on earth was Stones doing there? He was lucky not to get sent off.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?

    You want Gordon higher as a proper winger. Trent for Trippier, who then swaps with Walker.

    And Gordon as well, higher up.
    I think basically England need to go back in time a few years and change history so that they've practiced before the tournament.
    They should watch the Lionesses. They seem focused on making opportunities and expect a hatful of goals against mediocre opposition. And, you know, playing as a team, work as a unit, that sort of thing.
    And basically trying.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,048
    Break out the emergency waistcoat, shirt and tie.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797

    DavidL said:

    You have to wonder what drugs the FA were on by letting Southgate continue

    Mogadon is the obvious candidate.
    Whats this got to do with Sir Geoffery Howe?
    Always thought that he was a dead sheep, or something. Until he wasn't.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    I’ve heard John Stones described as “The Barnsley Beckenbauer”. I’m assuming the comparison is to the current dead one rather than the dynamic player he was when alive?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    Financial Times endorses Labour

    https://www.ft.com/content/2290c1f7-a4cb-4fe1-9b69-b0c8ca17f070

    Despite proclaiming itself the party of wealth creation, a Labour government could well end up targeting wealth creators.

    Few political options, though, are ever ideal. Britain must choose between a polarising Conservative party that has limited its appeal to an ever-narrower segment of the population, and a Labour party that appears to want to govern for the whole country. The risks of sticking with the exhausted incumbents outweigh those of bringing in a new government. Much of the country hankers for a fresh start. Labour should be given the opportunity to provide it.

    An endorsement, though somewhat grudgingly.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    There is more chance of the Tories getting a hung parliament than England winning the Euros.....
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Farooq said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    Brexit and Covid started at basically the same time. How can you separate them in the data?
    Similar effects in other countries which didn't have any possible Brexit factor.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    biggles said:

    I don’t think the ref enjoys football very much.

    Me too.
  • James_MJames_M Posts: 103
    I lived in the CV5 postcode for 13 years and that was, at most, 1 mile from Cov city centre. Surprised that Warwick Uni is CV4 as its further from the centre, but it is definitely Coventry. There is a tiny bit of campus that may sneak in Warwickshire but we are talking margins. The CV post code goes down to the Warwickshire cotswolds.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705

    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    No mention there of an M60 postcode area?
    M60 is used for Post Office boxes for businesses in M1-4 postcodes...
    M60 is the elliptical galaxy NGC 4649 in Virgo
    Next day delivery is optimistic then?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
    It does to some extent, most polls have Reform getting a higher voteshare than even UKIP got in 2015
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    One guy who’s more gaga than both Trump and Biden.

    BREAKING: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he is open to replacing Biden as the Democrat nominee.
    https://x.com/LeadingReport/status/1806703224792973368
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
    A friend who’s prominent in Reform says they expect 15%, and 2-4 seats.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChloeKeedyITV

    In an i/v with my colleague @CaronBellITV, Ed Davey confirmed he’s expanded his list of potentially winnable seats in the West Country as ‘people who were thinking of voting Labour are coming back to us because they know the Libs are the only party that can beat Conservatives’

    St Ives
    North Cornwall
    North Devon
    South Devon
    Torbay
    Yeovil
    Taunton & Wellington
    Wells & Mendip Hills
    West Dorset
    Mid Dorset & North Poole
    South Cotswolds
    North Cotswolds

    The Cotswolds aren't in the West Country. Unless your definition of West Country starts at Heathrow Airport.
    That far West? Doesn’t it start at Hogarth Roundabout, or is it Hammersmith Flyover?
    Poor old Hogarth.

    One of the great English writers of "antiquity"

    And as soon as his name is mentioned the suffix "Roundabout" springs to mind.

    And a flyover made of Meccano.
    Hogarth was a painter, shirley?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.
  • eek said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    The final word on Warwick University being in Coventry.

    Warwick University has a CV4 postcode, it is in Coventry.

    I will not entertain any further discussions on this topic.

    Excellent header, @TSE ,and I'm on it from this morning. Thank-you.

    But this - THIS - is the most vapid BILGE I have EVER seen on PB, excepting only the occasional Emanation of Leon (generations 1 to the current gen 18 model).

    Much of Derbyshire has a Sheffield Postcode, including swathes of the Peak District (the Derbyshire County Council offices and Chatsworth House *just* escaped), most of Bolsover Constituency, Chesterfield Crooked Spire Church and Hardwick Hall. Notts is more fortunate, but not my much. I'm lucky I don't have a Sheffield Post Code myself; the bloody things only stop about 3 miles away - and Sheffield is 30 miles.

    Meanwhile, if I have it right your bit of Sheffield spends its energy maintaining a Derbyshire identity.

    That's the problem with Socialist Republics; they always want everybody else's territory, and no one ever likes it.

    I say no more, and I stop just short of the obvious analogy.
    The S postcode also covers Nottinghamshire.

    There was plans for a Greater Sheffield super mayoral with all of those areas.

    I am from Dore, we are pure bred Yorkshire.
    As against all this, the point was the university is in CV4. The number matters because the rule is to number outwards from the city centre. I would expect CV4 to be part of Coventry, CV34 not so much
    Fun fact, in Manchester, M60 is located next to M1.
    The M60 has junctions to the M1 (postcode) ....
    What, and what?

    1) There are definitely no junctions of the M60 which lead onto the M1.
    2) Where is the M60 postcode? Is it one of thise specialist ones like M90 for the airport? I can't find it on a map.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M_postcode_area
    No mention there of an M60 postcode area?
    M60 is used for Post Office boxes for businesses in M1-4 postcodes...
    M60 is the elliptical galaxy NGC 4649 in Virgo
    Next day delivery is optimistic then?
    Especially for postal ballots
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,937
    edited June 30
    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Sean_F said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    My view is that growth will be reasonable for the next few years, as the economy returns to the trend that was interrupted in 2020-23.
    Possible but we now have a greater debt overhang and lower unemployment so there would have to be significant increases in productivity.

    Which requires more output for the same level of pay whereas people think they're entitled to more pay for the same level of output.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651
    Sean_F said:

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
    A friend who’s prominent in Reform says they expect 15%, and 2-4 seats.
    Mandy Rice-Davis applies there.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,513
    edited June 30

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
    I think the polling does reflect it. 15-20% ish which is what they are polling at the moment to remarkable. What won't reflect it are the final seat counts but that is just the way the system works.

    I suspect Farage will be delighted with 6 or so seats if he actually gets them. That would be a step change compared to UKIP when they were polling similar numbers.

    What should concern him is who those 6 or so MPs are (if they materialise). Farage, Tice and Anderson are old operators and probably safe hands as far as not getting the party into too much trouble is concerned but he could end up with some real issues unless he has very carefully vetted the other potentially successful MPs - which from what I hear he hasn't.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Nigelb said:

    One guy who’s more gaga than both Trump and Biden.

    BREAKING: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he is open to replacing Biden as the Democrat nominee.
    https://x.com/LeadingReport/status/1806703224792973368

    Mind you given the state of them he likely gets the highest 3rd party vote since Perot, he has a Kennedy name with often Maga policies
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    I count just 10 constituencies in GB which haven't elected a government MP since 2005 (including their substantive predecessors under the old boundaries). Five were won by Labour in 2019 and I'd expect all their successor constituencies to go Labour this time, though Rochdale is one of them. The other five went SNP and Plaid Cymru, in some cases for decades. One can imagine all of these remaining with their current party, or a few falling, but Dwyfor Meirionnydd will surely remain with an opposition MP, continuing an unbroken streak since 1970.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,044
    .
    Sean_F said:

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
    A friend who’s prominent in Reform says they expect 15%, and 2-4 seats.
    That’s nothing.
    Rishi Sunak says he still thinks he can win the election.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    The US rewards success lavishly, and punishes failure brutally.

    I think that’s the key to their success.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 30
    Roy Keane is making about as much sense as Joe Biden.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=US

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    How have US levels of debt and inequality changed ?
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67
    biggles said:

    Cookie said:

    biggles said:

    DavidL said:

    Gordon for Trippier is looking kinda obvious at this point, isn't it?

    You want Gordon higher as a proper winger. Trent for Trippier, who then swaps with Walker.

    And Gordon as well, higher up.
    I think basically England need to go back in time a few years and change history so that they've practiced before the tournament.
    That’s cheating! That’s what foreigners do! They practice beforehand, which spoils the fun.
    Michael Flanders?
  • Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChloeKeedyITV

    In an i/v with my colleague @CaronBellITV, Ed Davey confirmed he’s expanded his list of potentially winnable seats in the West Country as ‘people who were thinking of voting Labour are coming back to us because they know the Libs are the only party that can beat Conservatives’

    St Ives
    North Cornwall
    North Devon
    South Devon
    Torbay
    Yeovil
    Taunton & Wellington
    Wells & Mendip Hills
    West Dorset
    Mid Dorset & North Poole
    South Cotswolds
    North Cotswolds

    The Cotswolds aren't in the West Country. Unless your definition of West Country starts at Heathrow Airport.
    That far West? Doesn’t it start at Hogarth Roundabout, or is it Hammersmith Flyover?
    Poor old Hogarth.

    One of the great English writers of "antiquity"

    And as soon as his name is mentioned the suffix "Roundabout" springs to mind.

    And a flyover made of Meccano.
    Hogarth was a painter, shirley?
    Both.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,889
    SOS. Pep Guardiola. You are wanted urgently in the England dressing room. There isn't much time ...........

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Remarkable what happens when you go from getting coached by Klopp and Guardiola to an English coach.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    Would the ITV talking twats try to explain way England are struggling to break down the opposition, rather than shouting GAMBLLERRRRRRRR.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,513
    Nigelb said:

    One guy who’s more gaga than both Trump and Biden.

    BREAKING: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. says he is open to replacing Biden as the Democrat nominee.
    https://x.com/LeadingReport/status/1806703224792973368

    Bwahahaha. Sorry, I genuinely laughed out loud at that.

    In other news Farage has said he is open to replacing Sunak as leader of the Tory party.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Based on what you lot are saying, defeat now would be a mercy. I saw some of the Switzerland match. Can you imagine what they would do to such inept opposition?

    Also, the final disappointment/everything turns to crap under the Tories event takes place before the election. As I said the other day, Sir Keir is a lucky general 😊
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    Canvassing anecdata from outer South West London (Sutton and Cheam).

    Interesting area: used to be a marginal Lib Dem / Tory seat and has flipped multiple times, but since 2015 has had large Tory majorities and is a “safe” seat. The environs should be conducive to the Tories: outer London, affected by the ULEZ extension, a lot of self employed, similar in feel to places like Bexley and Sidcup that are rock solid Conservative.

    I found quite a few Lib Dems and a number of tactical voters who would usually be Labour. 2 avowedly Tory households. Others who didn’t want to answer (I routinely record them as “not Lib Dem” or Conservative leaning). Nobody said they were voting Reform, but then they might well not say so to a Lib Dem canvasser.

    I would say it’s 50:50 there, at least in the wards we canvassed. Certainly no sense of complete Tory collapse. By contrast next door Carshalton looks fairly comfortable for Bobby Dean.

    Sutton and Cheam is the "odd one out" as far as Greater London is concerned, the only seat that has moved to the Tories recently compared to 1997/2001/2005.
    The interesting point here is that @TimS was sent to canvas in Sutton and Cheam rather than another more marginal Lib Dem target.

    The Lib Dems do appear to have widened their targeting.

    Whether that is wise we shall see.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ChloeKeedyITV

    In an i/v with my colleague @CaronBellITV, Ed Davey confirmed he’s expanded his list of potentially winnable seats in the West Country as ‘people who were thinking of voting Labour are coming back to us because they know the Libs are the only party that can beat Conservatives’

    St Ives
    North Cornwall
    North Devon
    South Devon
    Torbay
    Yeovil
    Taunton & Wellington
    Wells & Mendip Hills
    West Dorset
    Mid Dorset & North Poole
    South Cotswolds
    North Cotswolds

    The Cotswolds aren't in the West Country. Unless your definition of West Country starts at Heathrow Airport.
    That far West? Doesn’t it start at Hogarth Roundabout, or is it Hammersmith Flyover?
    Poor old Hogarth.

    One of the great English writers of "antiquity"

    And as soon as his name is mentioned the suffix "Roundabout" springs to mind.

    And a flyover made of Meccano.
    Is that Meccano flyover still there? Amazed it wasn’t condemned and replaced decades ago, I used to go over it every week a quarter of a century ago, and it used to rattle and sway in the wind even then.
    Apparently so. Temporary when it was built in 1971 and still going strong. TfL reparapeted and redecked it a few years back.

    Apparently Hogarth lived in a house who's garden wall backs on to the junction.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    lol. Slovakia

    This is the way the Southgate era ends. Suitably pathetic

    He should have been sacked after the euros of 2021. Letting him go on to the World Cup was an error. Keeping him on after THAT was criminally stupid

    What a waste of great players
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Remarkable what happens when you go from getting coached by Klopp and Guardiola to an English coach.
    If the FA had any sense, they’d be giving Klopp a call tomorrow.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,113

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Kellner is broadly in the right ball park but unless the Tories can squeeze Reform a bit more next week to get to 25%+ I am still expecting 100-150 Tory seats

    This still feels like the most likely outcome to me.

    The FT's endorsement of Labour today is also worth a read. Even handed about Labour's challenges and issues, v. the need for an effective opposition. They also emphasise "effective" - 150 Conservatives on the opposition bench, fighting amongst themselves is not "effective" and is part of the problem of the last 15 years.
    "150 Conservative MPs - wow ... you're optimistic! The polls are suggesting support levels of around 19% - 21% which probably translates into around 80 - 110 seats, depending on turnout, etc. How did you succeed in finding another 40 - 70 seats?
    If Survation or More in Common are correct, then the Conservatives are on 24-25%, and 10 points or so ahead of Reform. In that scenario, and especially if Reform takes disproportionately from the Conservatives in the Red Wall, and the East, then 150 seats is about right.

    Of course, if WeThink or Opinium are correct, and the Conservatives and Reform are practically neck and neck, then it is entirely possible to get a much lower - comfortably sub-100 - Conservative seat count.

    A bet on 150 is simply a bet that Survation and MiC are right rather than WeThink or Opinium. At 7-1, those are odds I like.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344

    Sean_F said:

    For some reason my X now filled with Reform supporters, all of whom appear to think that a tidal wave is coming.

    What's going to happen if they win, say, 6 seats - a monumental achievement in its own right but not enough to influence anything in particular? Will Farage really buckle down?

    Almost all of us have stories like this. Tories we know who've switched, people we wouldn't have expected going for Reform. NF can get 5 thousand at a rally - no other party can do that. He's surrounded by smiling people wherever he goes - the most any of the others can manage is some stage-managed activists holding some foamex signs. It feels like something very big is happening - it feels like the Brexit Party European elections in 2019. But the polling does not reflect that at all.
    A friend who’s prominent in Reform says they expect 15%, and 2-4 seats.
    Mandy Rice-Davis applies there.
    That prediction seems quite cautious to me, about 2% under their poll rating, which my friend thought exaggerated.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Sean_F said:

    kyf_100 said:

    biggles said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Nigelb said:
    FT has always had a left wing bias, and I say that as a subscriber.

    What's really fascinating in the article that tweet links to is the clickable chart of GDP, GDP per head, average earnings, and productivity.

    All of which stalled in 2008 in the GFC, under Labour's watch, and have flatlined ever since.

    Of course, the Conservatives have had 14 years to do better, but those charts suggest that the structural problems with the economy stem from a global crisis, rather than Conservative mismanagement. It's notable that there's no Brexit blip on those charts, though there is a COVID one. Again, suggesting factors outside of a national government's control.

    I'd love to see five years of Labour government where GDP, GDP per head, earnings and productivity rise. I fear, however, that something in the economic system as we know it broke in 2008, and Labour won't fix it either.
    I think there’s something wrong in the productivity figures for us, and other similar nations that don’t make widgets. But undeniably there’s a growth issue nonetheless.
    Noteworthy that US productivity hasn't flatlined since the GFC:

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    Nor GDP / GDP per capita;

    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB

    However it has flatined across the whole of the EU:

    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=EU

    The data suggests that Europe, and I include the UK in that, has failed to recover from the 2008 GFC, while the data suggests the US has.

    I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure why that's the case, I can only point to the figures and suggest it's a problem to which the Conservative party have no answers, but isn't a problem actually caused by the Conservatives.
    The US rewards success lavishly, and punishes failure brutally.

    I think that’s the key to their success.
    For the 1% only the first part applies.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,619
    Sandpit said:

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Remarkable what happens when you go from getting coached by Klopp and Guardiola to an English coach.
    If the FA had any sense, they’d be giving Klopp a call tomorrow.
    He won't take it.

    He said international management isn't for him, he has to work with the players on a daily basis, he couldn't cope with getting them for 10 days every few months.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548

    Could all Conservatives have just gone very very quiet?

    Until Thursday.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,968
    edited June 30

    Sandpit said:

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Remarkable what happens when you go from getting coached by Klopp and Guardiola to an English coach.
    If the FA had any sense, they’d be giving Klopp a call tomorrow.
    He won't take it.

    He said international management isn't for him, he has to work with the players on a daily basis, he couldn't cope with getting them for 10 days every few months.
    Statsbomb guy made the point a couple of weeks ago that the average quality of international managers is substantially below that of club managers...the best managers don't want to do to the job in large part for that reason.

    Then you have the problem you can even develop really complex systems as they take many months to get fluid e.g. Man City / Liverpool expect their players to take a year to become comfortable with their tactics.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 30

    Could all Conservatives have just gone very very quiet?

    Until Thursday.
    Conservatives? Who are these, Ghosts?

    (original quote Cde Bob)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    rcs1000 said:

    mwadams said:

    HYUFD said:

    I think Kellner is broadly in the right ball park but unless the Tories can squeeze Reform a bit more next week to get to 25%+ I am still expecting 100-150 Tory seats

    This still feels like the most likely outcome to me.

    The FT's endorsement of Labour today is also worth a read. Even handed about Labour's challenges and issues, v. the need for an effective opposition. They also emphasise "effective" - 150 Conservatives on the opposition bench, fighting amongst themselves is not "effective" and is part of the problem of the last 15 years.
    "150 Conservative MPs - wow ... you're optimistic! The polls are suggesting support levels of around 19% - 21% which probably translates into around 80 - 110 seats, depending on turnout, etc. How did you succeed in finding another 40 - 70 seats?
    If Survation or More in Common are correct, then the Conservatives are on 24-25%, and 10 points or so ahead of Reform. In that scenario, and especially if Reform takes disproportionately from the Conservatives in the Red Wall, and the East, then 150 seats is about right.

    Of course, if WeThink or Opinium are correct, and the Conservatives and Reform are practically neck and neck, then it is entirely possible to get a much lower - comfortably sub-100 - Conservative seat count.

    A bet on 150 is simply a bet that Survation and MiC are right rather than WeThink or Opinium. At 7-1, those are odds I like.
    Bet365 still have Tory 150-199 seats at 9-1...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    England going out on ITV, again.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Sandpit said:

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Remarkable what happens when you go from getting coached by Klopp and Guardiola to an English coach.
    If the FA had any sense, they’d be giving Klopp a call tomorrow.
    He won't take it.

    He said international management isn't for him, he has to work with the players on a daily basis, he couldn't cope with getting them for 10 days every few months.
    Lewis Hamilton said he wasn’t going to Ferrari, until he did. Adrian Newey definitely isn’t going there next year either.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548

    Its hard to believe that all the England players play for top European teams and not Accrington Stanley.

    Remarkable what happens when you go from getting coached by Klopp and Guardiola to an English coach.
    Remarkable what happens when you go from playing with the world's best players to playing with underwhelming fellow English ones.
This discussion has been closed.