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Could the Conservatives Really Come Third? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,498
    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,410

    Daisy Cooper could be the big winner from this debate.

    Her last speech was lame though, made worse by Farage immediately saying “unlike the others I don’t need an autocue”.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,169
    Anyway, my main take home is that the BBC are sticking with the Rick Wakeman piece from his King Arthur concept album for their election coverage music, which is a-OK with me. (Saw Yes live on Tuesday (a line-up without Wakeman or Wakeman jnr.).)
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,873
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    Israel? Surely Iceland
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460

    Handshakes and giggles between Rayner and Mordaunt at the end. Performative arguing for the sake of it.

    Or, alternatively, despite being political opponents they can be human beings who have known each other for years once they stop talking politics and be civil?
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    @benrileysmith

    **EXCLUSIVE**

    The Tories will promise to **permanently** abolish stamp duty for first time buyers on properties worth up to £425,000.

    Policy will be unveiled in their manifesto next week. Around 200,000 households to benefit every year. Our story below:

    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1799169977691545856
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,821
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
    The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.

    The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
    I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.

    Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
    & now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
    Until the effects of AI are understood there will not be any stability or future growth in the university sector.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,567
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    Iceland!
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,562
    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    Israel? Iceland. Not even Corbyn could blame Israel for this humiliation.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 20,296
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
    The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.

    The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
    I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.

    Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
    & now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
    £6.5k in real terms being double what they were charging in 2010, so what's the problem?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    Scott_xP said:

    @benrileysmith

    **EXCLUSIVE**

    The Tories will promise to **permanently** abolish stamp duty for first time buyers on properties worth up to £425,000.

    Policy will be unveiled in their manifesto next week. Around 200,000 households to benefit every year. Our story below:

    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1799169977691545856

    Feels like when the con man breaks out one last amazing promise, and it is just a bit too much to believe.
  • Options
    DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,048

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,774
    TimS said:


    Daisy Cooper could be the big winner from this debate.

    Her last speech was lame though, made worse by Farage immediately saying “unlike the others I don’t need an autocue”.
    I thought it was smart to refer to the sewage issue. It could sway a lot of voters.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,707
    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    Standard on here. Every day there are sexist remarks and highly sexual ones - all the bukkake stuff this morning being just one of zillions. And I go and refer to a member of my own sex as ghastly and a man steps in on me. Tsk.
    Quite right.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,763
    ...

    Penny apparently trying to pivot a Net Zero question into Labour tax rises. "My constituents cannot afford that" says the minister whose government has put taxes up to crazy levels and instigated a cost of living crisis which forces people in full time work to rely on foodbanks

    If we don't return Penny in Portsmouth North who will open the food pantries?
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,204
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    Of course they do which is why employers prefer having 100 people applying for the job than 2 people. Hence why employers love immigration
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,246
    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,367

    Mordaunt got least applause for her closing statement, followed by Plaid and RefUK

    She ballsed it up by pausing for a bit too long before she'd actually finished her statement - some people clapped early, others didn't clap at all. Hers was easily the worst of all the final statements.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,210
    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,873

    TimS said:


    Daisy Cooper could be the big winner from this debate.

    Her last speech was lame though, made worse by Farage immediately saying “unlike the others I don’t need an autocue”.
    I thought it was smart to refer to the sewage issue. It could sway a lot of voters.
    Ed Davey has made a lot of running on this issue- hence the stunt in Lake Windermere, It is most definitely cutting through.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    You know this isn't the Euros, right?

    I know you're gutted that your beloved Wales aren't in it, but pay attention!
    To be fair Israel play in UEFA and are in Eurovision so they are part of the whole warlike history that makes us Europeans so “one”.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,399

    I see we are losing in the football

    I blame Rishi 😈

    No, we're winning!
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,204
    AlsoLei said:

    Mordaunt got least applause for her closing statement, followed by Plaid and RefUK

    She ballsed it up by pausing for a bit too long before she'd actually finished her statement - some people clapped early, others didn't clap at all. Hers was easily the worst of all the final statements.
    Are you trying to tell us poor penny got the clap?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,562
    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    We’ve had practice. Just sad we can’t hear the awesome Icelandic clapping.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,246
    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 20,296
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    And I appreciate your naïve assumption that taxes don't affect prices.

    We have full employment in this country, if employers don't pay people enough then they don't get any employees and those who pay more get the employees instead.

    Firms have to account for NI when they determine what they can afford to pay. Any firm that fails to account for taxes will go bust instead.
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122
    edited June 7
    Scott_xP said:

    @benrileysmith

    **EXCLUSIVE**

    The Tories will promise to **permanently** abolish stamp duty for first time buyers on properties worth up to £425,000.

    Policy will be unveiled in their manifesto next week. Around 200,000 households to benefit every year. Our story below:

    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1799169977691545856

    So they’ve promised that current rates will remain unchanged & are spinning this as a great Tory tax giveaway?
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    Roy Hodgson says hello.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,498
    edited June 7
    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,029

    If an English politician stood on that stage and said, "Put England's interests first," people would be outraged.

    That's because they're all to varying degrees and with varying sincerity Unionists. Still, Sir Keir has been known to go full English natio..err..patriot.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/20/labour-is-now-the-true-party-of-english-patriotism/
  • Options
    DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,048

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Gibraltar 0 Wales 0
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    And are fucking fruitloops
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,169
    DM_Andy said:

    That was quite fun, would be surprised if it changed anyone's mind but still probably better than the football.

    Yeah, I thought it was fine. It largely worked. The contestants got to make their points.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    You just know Richi is watching it in Downing Street
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 52,543

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Only a team set up by Southgate could struggle to score against such opposition. Its almost criminal how much talent he is going to waste this summer.
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,146
    edited June 7
    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.


    https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 33,915
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    You know this isn't the Euros, right?

    I know you're gutted that your beloved Wales aren't in it, but pay attention!
    Nor is it Israel playing - HY has Sunak levels of football knowledge.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,982
    DavidL said:

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Only a team set up by Southgate could struggle to score against such opposition. Its almost criminal how much talent he is going to waste this summer.

    Time to bring on Grealish...
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,588

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
    The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.

    The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
    I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.

    Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
    & now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
    £6.5k in real terms being double what they were charging in 2010, so what's the problem?
    The block grant from the government being axed down over the last 14 years is the problem. There's a serious funding crunch in the tertiary education sector. It worked out fairly well until recently because international students subsidised UK places (a good way to leverage our international academic rep IMO). However, government moves to try to restrict the number of international students is presenting a big issue for those institutions. Mid-tier institutions are already struggling with the cut to the block grant and now the big boys are having trouble too. It's very silly given how much economic growth places like Imperial put out.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,204
    ToryJim said:

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.


    https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61

    You are surprised when clueless politician gets taken in by internet hoax?
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 20,296
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    There is an S in Ísland though.
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690

    Reform are

    I find the D-day stuff a bit overblown to be honest.

    I'm astonished too. I don't know a single person who was glued to the D-Day coverage beforehand and yet it's got huge traction.

    I can only conclude that the electorate want to see Sunak slip on banana skins, and are rather enjoying it.

    There will be more of them. He doesn't have the political savviness or dexterity to avoid them.
    The number of voters, let alone journos, politicos & pundits genuinely outraged by Sunak's D-Day evacuation, is FAR exceeded by those who are baffled by such an absurd level of political ineptitude.

    Especially since the outraged are obviously concentrated in the very group that he & Tories have been targeting so relentlessly.

    Which is underscoring the general lack of competence the PM, his government and his party have been projecting in the weeks, months, years leading up to the Summer of '24.
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,169
    DavidL said:

    Andy Robertson has just been superb. His crosses giving rise to both goals. Shankland wants to play against Germany. He wanted a goal so badly.

    Which party does Robertson lead?
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,460
    Absolute disaster for Mordaunt. She's finished.

    Note: Actually watched Coronation Street not that debate nonsense. Our Toyah got arrested for murdering her bairn.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,588
    DavidL said:

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Only a team set up by Southgate could struggle to score against such opposition. Its almost criminal how much talent he is going to waste this summer.
    Is he resting the big hitters? I'm not watching it.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 11,410

    TimS said:


    Daisy Cooper could be the big winner from this debate.

    Her last speech was lame though, made worse by Farage immediately saying “unlike the others I don’t need an autocue”.
    I thought it was smart to refer to the sewage issue. It could sway a lot of voters.
    Yes, fair point. She just delivered it in too scripted a way. I’ve seen her live several times and she really didn’t need the autocue.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    ToryJim said:

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.


    https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61

    Oh dear. How much later is an embarrassing question.
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,072
    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
  • Options
    bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,562
    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    Maybe they are though. How many people think Farage still leads them?
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,821
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?

    Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.

    Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.

    Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,367
    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    I suspect most people think UKIP and Refuk are the same party. We might see some unexpectedly-high scores for UKIP as a result of any Faragasm...
  • Options
    booksellerbookseller Posts: 494

    DavidL said:

    Andy Robertson has just been superb. His crosses giving rise to both goals. Shankland wants to play against Germany. He wanted a goal so badly.

    Which party does Robertson lead?
    "Reform Slot"
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    I'm expecting Sunak to randomly apologise for England losing in the morning
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,498
    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    Maybe they are though. How many people think Farage still leads them?
    UKIP are standing in Harlow as well as Reform
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,588
    Pagan2 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Mordaunt got least applause for her closing statement, followed by Plaid and RefUK

    She ballsed it up by pausing for a bit too long before she'd actually finished her statement - some people clapped early, others didn't clap at all. Hers was easily the worst of all the final statements.
    Are you trying to tell us poor penny got the clap?
    "...please clap"
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,770
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    Erm no. Iceland. In their own language it is spelt Island.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,372
    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    I wouldn't be surprised if people voted UKIP thinking they were choosing Farage.

    Easy mistake to make.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,498

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    Erm no. Iceland. In their own language it is spelt Island.
    Yes well this is English TV not Icelandic TV
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,459
    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    Are you new to watching England? Recall 2016…
    Besides it’s a warm up friendly. Players main concern is not getting injured.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,763
    DavidL said:

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Only a team set up by Southgate could struggle to score against such opposition. Its almost criminal how much talent he is going to waste this summer.
    I think this could be Southgate's swansong. His squad selection is very strange.

    Replacing the waistcoat with a cardigan is proof positive that he has lost his touch.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,210
    DM_Andy said:

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Gibraltar 0 Wales 0
    We expect it !!!
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,588
    Dura_Ace said:

    Absolute disaster for Mordaunt. She's finished.

    Note: Actually watched Coronation Street not that debate nonsense. Our Toyah got arrested for murdering her bairn.

    I was chatting to a colleague in Canada when I was over there last week and he was saying to me that the only British show he got on CBC when he was a kid was Corrie. He said when he heard the theme music and saw the gable roof skyline it was time to stop watching TV for the evening.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,965

    Is Sunak at the footy?

    Well, for the first half, anyway.

    Chapeau.
  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    ToryJim said:

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.


    https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61

    This is exactly why I advised Rishi to leave Normandy - no guarantee that the supposed leaders he was talking to were really who they said they were. They had a senile grandpa pretending to be Biden, a “single dad at B&Q” (hat tip Dura Ace) playing Zelensky, Prince William pretending to be King Charles and Justin Trudeau in White-face.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 119,498
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    You know this isn't the Euros, right?

    I know you're gutted that your beloved Wales aren't in it, but pay attention!
    Nor is it Israel playing - HY has Sunak levels of football knowledge.
    Yes, I saw someone else had picked this up before me so left it alone.
    If one went to a public school like Rishi and I football is rugby football and the game on now is soccer
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,204

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?

    Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.

    Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.

    Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
    Since minimum wage came in the number of people paid min wage has increased. The reason not all are are on min wage is as skills get rarer they have to compete. Most people can scrub a toilet....not everyone can write a micro service in c# or perform neurosurgery to remove a brain tumour
  • Options
    PhilPhil Posts: 2,122

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
    The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.

    The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
    I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.

    Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
    & now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
    £6.5k in real terms being double what they were charging in 2010, so what's the problem?
    The fees charged in 2010 were topped up by government grants to the higher education sector. These were removed when the £9k fee system was introduced. The £9k limit was roughly equal to the sum of the £3k fee & the grant paid per student at the time I believe.

    (Anyone have any actual figures? I haven’t found any with a brief search, but I’m sure they exist somewhere...)
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    Farage and the Green seen getting off with each other by the bins out back
    #debatescandals
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,210
    edited June 7
    DavidL said:

    Just switched on the football

    England 0 Iceland 1

    That is so funny

    Only a team set up by Southgate could struggle to score against such opposition. Its almost criminal how much talent he is going to waste this summer.
    We do not want him at Old Trafford
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,246

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    Are you new to watching England? Recall 2016…
    Besides it’s a warm up friendly. Players main concern is not getting injured.
    I see Germany are failing to beat Greece. 1-1 atm.
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,367
    ToryJim said:

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.


    https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61

    Possibly the same Poroshenko-impressionist who got Hollande last year?

    https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/11/russian-pranksters-posing-as-ukraines-ex-leader-call-former-french-president-francois-holl
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 94,460
    I saw on the wiki page for the election a few predictions with the Tories getting around 190 seats. If they were offered that now I think they'd leap at the chance!

    The ranges are pretty amaxing - Tories 75-194, Labour 390-475, LDs 22-61, SNP 11-24, PC 1-4 (which feels very broad given the number of seats in Wales), Greens 1-2, Reform 0-1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Which are the two seats Greens are thought to be close in? One in Bristol and still Brighton?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 9,946
    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    Maybe they are though. How many people think Farage still leads them?
    UKIP are standing in Harlow as well as Reform
    If they get treble figures I'd be surprised
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 20,296
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    Erm no. Iceland. In their own language it is spelt Island.
    Yes well this is English TV not Icelandic TV
    And English TV follows standard international codes for naming countries.

    ISL is the three letter code for ISLand funnily enough.

    Also funnily enough ISR is the three letter code for ISRael.

    Why would Israel be ISL instead of ISR?
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 16,690

    biggles said:

    So it has come to this, we are seriously contemplating how the LibDems will manage as the Official Opposition.

    We live in interesting times!

    With the mighty Ed Davey? Easily. One bonkers photo op a week and they’ll be running the country by Christmas.
    Remember that I have baggsied the Ministry of Silly Walks
    IF there's a Coalition, perhaps Minister of State for Shuffling, Sliding & Tripping in MoSW?
  • Options
    DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,048

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?

    Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.

    Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.

    Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
    If someone is willing to work for £x, has there been a situation where the manager has said "You're doing great, we'll pay you more money for exactly the same job" Employers look at retention rates and what the competition is offering to decide what to pay their employees.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 30,246
    AlsoLei said:

    Andy_JS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    No RefUK candidate in Gavin Williamson's new seat of Stone, Great Wyrley & Penkridge.

    https://www.sstaffs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-06/SOPN__NOP_Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge.pdf

    Makes this seat a possibility for the highest Tory share in the country, given that Reform probably would have done quite well if they'd stood.

    More shocking is UKIP are standing.

    They had 44 candidates last time.
    It would be genuinely funny if UKIP somehow crib all the reform vote in that seat.
    They won't because UKIP isn't getting any publicity at this election.
    I suspect most people think UKIP and Refuk are the same party. We might see some unexpectedly-high scores for UKIP as a result of any Faragasm...
    Possibly in the few seats where UKIP stands and Reform doesn't. (I would guess not).
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,707

    ...

    Penny apparently trying to pivot a Net Zero question into Labour tax rises. "My constituents cannot afford that" says the minister whose government has put taxes up to crazy levels and instigated a cost of living crisis which forces people in full time work to rely on foodbanks

    If we don't return Penny in Portsmouth North who will open the food pantries?
    Food pantries? You mean food banks with gingham tops?
  • Options
    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,873

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    Iceland, being ghastly foreigners, spell the name of their country Ísland.
    Israel is ISR
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,821

    Is Sunak at the footy?

    Well, for the first half, anyway.

    The timings yesterday were all wrong.

    Sunak should have been there throughout
    Macron should have been there at the start, disappeared for most of it and then returned at the end
    Biden should have turned up half way through
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,399
    ToryJim said:

    BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.


    https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61

    In the good old days it would have been Steve Penk doing the hoax call
  • Options
    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,169

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    There is an S in Ísland though.
    But it should be ÍSL not ISL then.
  • Options
    ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,146
    A man has assaulted and beaten Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen on a street in Copenhagen, Danish broadcaster TV2 reported.

    https://x.com/politicoeurope/status/1799171751558996119?s=61

    Eek. I hope she’s ok.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,707

    Is Sunak at the footy?

    Well, for the first half, anyway.

    The timings yesterday were all wrong.

    Sunak should have been there throughout
    Macron should have been there at the start, disappeared for most of it and then returned at the end
    Biden should have turned up half way through
    The Canadians ....
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,459
    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,588
    kle4 said:

    I saw on the wiki page for the election a few predictions with the Tories getting around 190 seats. If they were offered that now I think they'd leap at the chance!

    The ranges are pretty amaxing - Tories 75-194, Labour 390-475, LDs 22-61, SNP 11-24, PC 1-4 (which feels very broad given the number of seats in Wales), Greens 1-2, Reform 0-1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Which are the two seats Greens are thought to be close in? One in Bristol and still Brighton?

    I've mostly been looking at the FT's polling tracker rather than Wiki recently but looking at the table, that's a truly fucking awful set of polls for Blue Team since the debate.
  • Options
    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,204
    ToryJim said:

    A man has assaulted and beaten Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen on a street in Copenhagen, Danish broadcaster TV2 reported.

    https://x.com/politicoeurope/status/1799171751558996119?s=61

    Eek. I hope she’s ok.

    Do danish pm's not have a security detail?
  • Options
    DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,048

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How the dickens can England be losing to Iceland at football?

    It says on scoreboard ISL which spelt correctly should be Israel, there is no S in Iceland
    Iceland, being ghastly foreigners, spell the name of their country Ísland.
    It should be like the T20 World Cup, every team there has their country's name on their shirts IN ENGLISH as God himself intended. (/s obviously)

  • Options
    boulayboulay Posts: 5,085
    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    It’s a 70’s or 80’s tv show which is surprisingly amusing. It’s like watching my parents and friends parents at their peak having awkward social situations. I’m amazed your Tory friends don’t talk to you about it, it’s right up their street by the sound of things. It’s centred around a “Will they or won’t they” relationship like Leon and Cyclefree, two star crossed lovers separated by social class and bullshit. Like Marina Hyde and Piers Morgan even.
  • Options
    BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 20,296
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?

    Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.

    Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.

    Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
    If someone is willing to work for £x, has there been a situation where the manager has said "You're doing great, we'll pay you more money for exactly the same job" Employers look at retention rates and what the competition is offering to decide what to pay their employees.
    Yes absolutely that situation happens all the time, whenever that employers competitors are offering £x+y then the employer can't afford to only offer £x unless they want to lose all of their good employees.

    As you acknowledge, competition exists.

    Currently the competition has to price in NI, which means they reduce wages proportionately as its a direct cost to them for employing someone. Remove employers NI and the competition can afford to pay more, which when we have full employment means only one thing.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,965
    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Phil said:

    DM_Andy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.

    I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
    Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.

    We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
    Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
    Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.

    Tax on wages are far too high in this country.
    Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.

    Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
    I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
    So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?

    Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.

    Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.

    Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
    If someone is willing to work for £x, has there been a situation where the manager has said "You're doing great, we'll pay you more money for exactly the same job" Employers look at retention rates and what the competition is offering to decide what to pay their employees.
    Unless you're the government.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,639
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    You know this isn't the Euros, right?

    I know you're gutted that your beloved Wales aren't in it, but pay attention!
    Nor is it Israel playing - HY has Sunak levels of football knowledge.
    Yes, I saw someone else had picked this up before me so left it alone.
    If one went to a public school like Rishi and I football is rugby football and the game on now is soccer
    Whereas up here in the Red Wall that nonsense you posh lads play isn't proper rugby.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 20,483
    Scott_xP said:

    @benrileysmith

    **EXCLUSIVE**

    The Tories will promise to **permanently** abolish stamp duty for first time buyers on properties worth up to £425,000.

    Policy will be unveiled in their manifesto next week. Around 200,000 households to benefit every year. Our story below:

    https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1799169977691545856

    Just more driving on the demand side, rather than addressing the need for a functioning market.

    Arse about face.
  • Options
    nico679nico679 Posts: 5,671
    Jon Craig Sky political correspondent thinks Mordaunt was class and very polished . Jeez is he drunk !

    I like Penny but really she wasn’t great tonight .
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,707
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    Meanwhile England currently losing to Israel in the football, so no Euros bounce likely for Rishi

    You know this isn't the Euros, right?

    I know you're gutted that your beloved Wales aren't in it, but pay attention!
    Nor is it Israel playing - HY has Sunak levels of football knowledge.
    Yes, I saw someone else had picked this up before me so left it alone.
    If one went to a public school like Rishi and I football is rugby football and the game on now is soccer
    Ok Dafydd ap Hyufd, but you're the one who started talking about it, not me!
    He obviously didn't go to Eton ...
This discussion has been closed.