Anyway, my main take home is that the BBC are sticking with the Rick Wakeman piece from his King Arthur concept album for their election coverage music, which is a-OK with me. (Saw Yes live on Tuesday (a line-up without Wakeman or Wakeman jnr.).)
Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.
Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
Handshakes and giggles between Rayner and Mordaunt at the end. Performative arguing for the sake of it.
Or, alternatively, despite being political opponents they can be human beings who have known each other for years once they stop talking politics and be civil?
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.
The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.
Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
& now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
Until the effects of AI are understood there will not be any stability or future growth in the university sector.
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.
The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.
Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
& now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
£6.5k in real terms being double what they were charging in 2010, so what's the problem?
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.
Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
Standard on here. Every day there are sexist remarks and highly sexual ones - all the bukkake stuff this morning being just one of zillions. And I go and refer to a member of my own sex as ghastly and a man steps in on me. Tsk.
Penny apparently trying to pivot a Net Zero question into Labour tax rises. "My constituents cannot afford that" says the minister whose government has put taxes up to crazy levels and instigated a cost of living crisis which forces people in full time work to rely on foodbanks
If we don't return Penny in Portsmouth North who will open the food pantries?
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
Of course they do which is why employers prefer having 100 people applying for the job than 2 people. Hence why employers love immigration
Mordaunt got least applause for her closing statement, followed by Plaid and RefUK
She ballsed it up by pausing for a bit too long before she'd actually finished her statement - some people clapped early, others didn't clap at all. Hers was easily the worst of all the final statements.
Feels like when the con man breaks out one last amazing promise, and it is just a bit too much to believe.
Aarrrrgggggghhhh!!!!! You don’t fix asset price bubbles by helping people pay more for assets!!! Aarrrggghhh!!!!
None of them get this. Or rather they do, but they want the sugar rush of votes from those who save cash right now, and don’t care about the right policy in the long run.
Mordaunt got least applause for her closing statement, followed by Plaid and RefUK
She ballsed it up by pausing for a bit too long before she'd actually finished her statement - some people clapped early, others didn't clap at all. Hers was easily the worst of all the final statements.
Are you trying to tell us poor penny got the clap?
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
And I appreciate your naïve assumption that taxes don't affect prices.
We have full employment in this country, if employers don't pay people enough then they don't get any employees and those who pay more get the employees instead.
Firms have to account for NI when they determine what they can afford to pay. Any firm that fails to account for taxes will go bust instead.
If an English politician stood on that stage and said, "Put England's interests first," people would be outraged.
That's because they're all to varying degrees and with varying sincerity Unionists. Still, Sir Keir has been known to go full English natio..err..patriot.
BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.
The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.
Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
& now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
£6.5k in real terms being double what they were charging in 2010, so what's the problem?
The block grant from the government being axed down over the last 14 years is the problem. There's a serious funding crunch in the tertiary education sector. It worked out fairly well until recently because international students subsidised UK places (a good way to leverage our international academic rep IMO). However, government moves to try to restrict the number of international students is presenting a big issue for those institutions. Mid-tier institutions are already struggling with the cut to the block grant and now the big boys are having trouble too. It's very silly given how much economic growth places like Imperial put out.
BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.
I find the D-day stuff a bit overblown to be honest.
I'm astonished too. I don't know a single person who was glued to the D-Day coverage beforehand and yet it's got huge traction.
I can only conclude that the electorate want to see Sunak slip on banana skins, and are rather enjoying it.
There will be more of them. He doesn't have the political savviness or dexterity to avoid them.
The number of voters, let alone journos, politicos & pundits genuinely outraged by Sunak's D-Day evacuation, is FAR exceeded by those who are baffled by such an absurd level of political ineptitude.
Especially since the outraged are obviously concentrated in the very group that he & Tories have been targeting so relentlessly.
Which is underscoring the general lack of competence the PM, his government and his party have been projecting in the weeks, months, years leading up to the Summer of '24.
BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.
Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.
Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?
Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.
Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.
Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
Mordaunt got least applause for her closing statement, followed by Plaid and RefUK
She ballsed it up by pausing for a bit too long before she'd actually finished her statement - some people clapped early, others didn't clap at all. Hers was easily the worst of all the final statements.
Are you trying to tell us poor penny got the clap?
Note: Actually watched Coronation Street not that debate nonsense. Our Toyah got arrested for murdering her bairn.
I was chatting to a colleague in Canada when I was over there last week and he was saying to me that the only British show he got on CBC when he was a kid was Corrie. He said when he heard the theme music and saw the gable roof skyline it was time to stop watching TV for the evening.
BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.
This is exactly why I advised Rishi to leave Normandy - no guarantee that the supposed leaders he was talking to were really who they said they were. They had a senile grandpa pretending to be Biden, a “single dad at B&Q” (hat tip Dura Ace) playing Zelensky, Prince William pretending to be King Charles and Justin Trudeau in White-face.
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?
Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.
Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.
Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
Since minimum wage came in the number of people paid min wage has increased. The reason not all are are on min wage is as skills get rarer they have to compete. Most people can scrub a toilet....not everyone can write a micro service in c# or perform neurosurgery to remove a brain tumour
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
and once again Farage picks out something he know will get votes - he is some performer
The student loan thing is particularly galling since (as I understand things, I’m sure there was a recent article about this in the Economist or somewhere similar?) it would have been /cheaper/ just to pay out student grants. But no, we had to create a complicated loan scheme with all the hideously expensive bureaucracy to go with it instead.
The student loan debacle is also one of the drivers behind the imminent collapse of the UK university sector because, despite a decade of inflation since the fee cap was put in place, the government has refused to increase it at all. So university fees are now the equivalent of £6500 in 2012. Unsurprisingly, things are starting to fall apart at the seams.
I vaguely remember claims back in 2011 that universities would compete to offer the best value and that £6000 would likely become the standard level of student fees with only the top places charging the top fees.
Instead they all decided to charge maximum fees with immediate effect.
& now they’re all charging £6.5k in real terms and universities are completely reliant on income from foreign students to keep the lights on. This is not a recipe for stability & economic growth.
£6.5k in real terms being double what they were charging in 2010, so what's the problem?
The fees charged in 2010 were topped up by government grants to the higher education sector. These were removed when the £9k fee system was introduced. The £9k limit was roughly equal to the sum of the £3k fee & the grant paid per student at the time I believe.
(Anyone have any actual figures? I haven’t found any with a brief search, but I’m sure they exist somewhere...)
BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.
I saw on the wiki page for the election a few predictions with the Tories getting around 190 seats. If they were offered that now I think they'd leap at the chance!
The ranges are pretty amaxing - Tories 75-194, Labour 390-475, LDs 22-61, SNP 11-24, PC 1-4 (which feels very broad given the number of seats in Wales), Greens 1-2, Reform 0-1
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?
Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.
Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.
Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
If someone is willing to work for £x, has there been a situation where the manager has said "You're doing great, we'll pay you more money for exactly the same job" Employers look at retention rates and what the competition is offering to decide what to pay their employees.
Penny apparently trying to pivot a Net Zero question into Labour tax rises. "My constituents cannot afford that" says the minister whose government has put taxes up to crazy levels and instigated a cost of living crisis which forces people in full time work to rely on foodbanks
If we don't return Penny in Portsmouth North who will open the food pantries?
Food pantries? You mean food banks with gingham tops?
Sunak should have been there throughout Macron should have been there at the start, disappeared for most of it and then returned at the end Biden should have turned up half way through
BREAKING: Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron exchanged messages and held a video call with someone purporting to be former Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, but the interactions were later determined to be a hoax.
Sunak should have been there throughout Macron should have been there at the start, disappeared for most of it and then returned at the end Biden should have turned up half way through
Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.
Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
I saw on the wiki page for the election a few predictions with the Tories getting around 190 seats. If they were offered that now I think they'd leap at the chance!
The ranges are pretty amaxing - Tories 75-194, Labour 390-475, LDs 22-61, SNP 11-24, PC 1-4 (which feels very broad given the number of seats in Wales), Greens 1-2, Reform 0-1
Which are the two seats Greens are thought to be close in? One in Bristol and still Brighton?
I've mostly been looking at the FT's polling tracker rather than Wiki recently but looking at the table, that's a truly fucking awful set of polls for Blue Team since the debate.
Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.
Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
It’s a 70’s or 80’s tv show which is surprisingly amusing. It’s like watching my parents and friends parents at their peak having awkward social situations. I’m amazed your Tory friends don’t talk to you about it, it’s right up their street by the sound of things. It’s centred around a “Will they or won’t they” relationship like Leon and Cyclefree, two star crossed lovers separated by social class and bullshit. Like Marina Hyde and Piers Morgan even.
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?
Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.
Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.
Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
If someone is willing to work for £x, has there been a situation where the manager has said "You're doing great, we'll pay you more money for exactly the same job" Employers look at retention rates and what the competition is offering to decide what to pay their employees.
Yes absolutely that situation happens all the time, whenever that employers competitors are offering £x+y then the employer can't afford to only offer £x unless they want to lose all of their good employees.
As you acknowledge, competition exists.
Currently the competition has to price in NI, which means they reduce wages proportionately as its a direct cost to them for employing someone. Remove employers NI and the competition can afford to pay more, which when we have full employment means only one thing.
Farage’s stat on the number of people paying the 40p rate is remarkable if true.
I'm now in the 40p rate and I'm completely fine with it, I earn a decent wedge and happy to pay my fair share. I believe the old line "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good one to follow.
Don’t forget that your employer is paying 13.8% NI on top of your salary for the privilege of employing you. Real income tax rates on employment are punishingly high in this country, especially for those making student loan payments (effectively a graduate tax), for whom the marginal rate (assuming a higher rate tax payer & including employers NI) is approx 63%. Even more if you’re paying off a post-grad loan as well.
We have become a high tax country with shitty public services.
Since when does the employers NI reduce your disposable income?
Since always. Its a direct tax on wages, which means firms pay lower wages as a result as they budget the tax as part of their costs.
Tax on wages are far too high in this country. Tax on unearned incomes are far too low.
Working for a living should never be taxed any higher than making a living through means other than working.
I appreciate your naïve assumption that employers wouldn't just trouser any tax savings. Employers pay people as little as they can get away with.
So why isn't everyone on minimum wage ?
Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.
Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.
Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
If someone is willing to work for £x, has there been a situation where the manager has said "You're doing great, we'll pay you more money for exactly the same job" Employers look at retention rates and what the competition is offering to decide what to pay their employees.
Comments
**EXCLUSIVE**
The Tories will promise to **permanently** abolish stamp duty for first time buyers on properties worth up to £425,000.
Policy will be unveiled in their manifesto next week. Around 200,000 households to benefit every year. Our story below:
https://x.com/benrileysmith/status/1799169977691545856
None of them get this. Or rather they do, but they want the sugar rush of votes from those who save cash right now, and don’t care about the right policy in the long run.
England 0 Iceland 1
That is so funny
We have full employment in this country, if employers don't pay people enough then they don't get any employees and those who pay more get the employees instead.
Firms have to account for NI when they determine what they can afford to pay. Any firm that fails to account for taxes will go bust instead.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/20/labour-is-now-the-true-party-of-english-patriotism/
https://x.com/skynews/status/1799160854765552107?s=61
Time to bring on Grealish...
Especially since the outraged are obviously concentrated in the very group that he & Tories have been targeting so relentlessly.
Which is underscoring the general lack of competence the PM, his government and his party have been projecting in the weeks, months, years leading up to the Summer of '24.
Note: Actually watched Coronation Street not that debate nonsense. Our Toyah got arrested for murdering her bairn.
Because the demand for workers forces employers to pay more.
Ultimately the demand for workers pushes up wage rates to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to employ them.
Employers NI merely reduces the amount that the employee gets not what the employer is willing to pay.
Easy mistake to make.
Well, for the first half, anyway.
Besides it’s a warm up friendly. Players main concern is not getting injured.
Replacing the waistcoat with a cardigan is proof positive that he has lost his touch.
(Anyone have any actual figures? I haven’t found any with a brief search, but I’m sure they exist somewhere...)
#debatescandals
https://www.euronews.com/2023/04/11/russian-pranksters-posing-as-ukraines-ex-leader-call-former-french-president-francois-holl
The ranges are pretty amaxing - Tories 75-194, Labour 390-475, LDs 22-61, SNP 11-24, PC 1-4 (which feels very broad given the number of seats in Wales), Greens 1-2, Reform 0-1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_election
Which are the two seats Greens are thought to be close in? One in Bristol and still Brighton?
ISL is the three letter code for ISLand funnily enough.
Also funnily enough ISR is the three letter code for ISRael.
Why would Israel be ISL instead of ISR?
Sunak should have been there throughout
Macron should have been there at the start, disappeared for most of it and then returned at the end
Biden should have turned up half way through
https://x.com/politicoeurope/status/1799171751558996119?s=61
Eek. I hope she’s ok.
As you acknowledge, competition exists.
Currently the competition has to price in NI, which means they reduce wages proportionately as its a direct cost to them for employing someone. Remove employers NI and the competition can afford to pay more, which when we have full employment means only one thing.
Arse about face.
I like Penny but really she wasn’t great tonight .