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Could the Conservatives Really Come Third? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Liquid checks to be re-introduced at airports which had briefly got rid of them.

    Talk about going backwards.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone agree with me that it will slightly take the shine off a big Labour win if the Tories and RefUK combined get more votes than Labour? For example if it's Lab 40%, Con 25%, Ref 16%.

    No, of course it would not.

    No more than the shine is taken off a big Tory win if the Labour and Lib Dem votes combined are more than the Tory vote.

    Tory 40%, Lab 25%, LD 16% is still a landslide Tory victory.
    Lab 40%, Tory 25%, Refuk 16% is still a landslide Labour victory.
    I think it would slightly, especially the closer the combined total gets to 50%.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,525
    Andy_JS said:

    Liquid checks to be re-introduced at airports which had briefly got rid of them.

    Talk about going backwards.

    Any reason given? Someone got wind of something?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Been on TV many times since then. You are something of an Enigma. Kids that can be left while you write books in Norway, so adult, but doesn’t remember the late seventies (or re-runs in the eighties). Uses a stick to beat people off in supermarkets.
    I guess we all have our knowledge gaps - music is mine. So often on PB reports that X or Y has died and I have no idea who they are.
    Music used to be one of my specialist subjects, I just looked at the current top 20 singles and the only one I know (by artist/title) is Houdini by Eminem, that is a new entry at #1.

    https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/uk-top-40-singles-chart/
    Other than Eminem, I heard #4 (A bar song (Tipsy)) for the first time earlier today, my wife asked me to play it while driving which was a challenge with the speech recognition as at first it just played a random bar song playlist instead.

    Both my wife and I love #10 (Austin), that's a lot of fun and one I regularly play.

    My wife likes #19 (Beautiful Things) so I listen to that a few times, I'm not too fussed with it.

    The rest of the Top 20 I don't recognise. But then again a lot of the music I stream is new[ish] but may never have made the Top 20 in this country, music like other entertainment forms is a lot more diverse nowadays, we don't all listen to the same things.
    Interesting.

    There’s probably a handful I’d know to listen to, but wouldn’t know artist and title - but I don’t listen to a lot of music radio any more, preferring talk stations and podcasts on long journeys, or doing down a random YouTube music rabbithole which tends to suggest older songs that I know anyway.

    I’d love to know what the radio edit of the Eminem track sounds like, becuase the video edit is definitely not anywhere close to radio-friendly.
    I don't listen to any radio at all, I stream music while I'm driving.

    The streaming app discovers new music for us based on what we play and what we skip etc - the funny thing with streaming is then a lot of music we discover is popular in eg America or Canada or Australia but not really made it here.

    My wife discovers a lot more new music than I do, mainly from the fact she's on TikTok and I'm not. She really loves an American artist called Noah Kahan who seems to have recently made it here too.

    My favourite new artists at the moment are all foreign female soloists oddly enough. Peach PRC, Jax, Taylor Acorn etc - all from abroad AFAIK and not even sure if any of them are played on the radio here or not.
    Foreign female soloists (Janice Ian, Judy Collins, Nico...) and, faute de mieux, home-grown female soloists (Sandy Denny, Marianne Faithful, Mary Hopkins...) have always been popular with gentlemen for reasons too obvious to mention. There are top-twenty singles charts from the mid-60s where I can still remember most of the (not very sophisticated) lyrics, which could only be heard, long after sunset at this time of year, by tuning in to Radio Luxembourg or Radio Caroline. The ease with which today's music can be accessed (and forgotten) is one of the wonders of the age.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone agree with me that it will slightly take the shine off a big Labour win if the Tories and RefUK combined get more votes than Labour? For example if it's Lab 40%, Con 25%, Ref 16%.

    About as much as it took the shine off Boris's win when Lab+Lib almost beat Con. Boris came out ahead by 984 votes. Add Greens, Nats and Reform to the mix and lefty remainiacs came out on top. Not that it did them much good.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    Peter Bowles, but his character was Richard De Vere...
    Richard De Vere was also in Pretty Woman.

    Pretty Woman, by the way, was released closer to the time that Anthony Eden was PM than to today.
    I don’t care if that is true. It’s wonderful like the fact that on a time basis it’s more accurate to depict a human to being mauled by a T-Rex than a stegosaurus.
    Alas, it's actually true
    Eden 1957 -> Pretty Woman 1990 -> Now 2024
    33 years, 34 years.
    My reference for that era is the song Ride On Time by Black Box, which was #1 all summer in 1989, 35 years ago.

    35 years before that, was 1954, the era of Doris Day and Frank Sinatra.
    Victorian era
    (59 years)
    The Beatles formed
    (64 years)
    Now
    D-Day - more precisely, as pointed out on here today, OVERLORD - was closer to the American Civil War than today ...
    Overlord was the overall operation

    Neptune was the landing on the beaches

    D-Day comes from the military code for dates and times. You never write down the details. Instead, the orders looked something like -

    "On D-Day, at H-Hour, M-Minute, units {something} will land on Omaha, Sword, Gold and Juno, At H+1....." etc

    The idea is that the vital information is in times and locations - which could then be tightly held, or changed and given late in the process.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone agree with me that it will slightly take the shine off a big Labour win if the Tories and RefUK combined get more votes than Labour? For example if it's Lab 40%, Con 25%, Ref 16%.

    No, of course it would not.

    No more than the shine is taken off a big Tory win if the Labour and Lib Dem votes combined are more than the Tory vote.

    Tory 40%, Lab 25%, LD 16% is still a landslide Tory victory.
    Lab 40%, Tory 25%, Refuk 16% is still a landslide Labour victory.
    I think it would slightly, especially the closer the combined total gets to 50%.
    Why?

    Did the fact Milibands Labour and Clegg's Lib Dems got more votes combined than Cameron's Tories in 2015 take the shine off the Tories winning a majority?

    No of course it did not.

    Anyone pointing to combined totals of opposition parties is typically just a sore loser trying to console themselves.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,798
    Have we discussed the Conservative Party's failure to field a candidate in Rotherham? They were never going to win it, of course, but this is good news for Reform there (to a greater extent than the reverse might be). I still expect Labour to win it, but you can get 13-1 on Reform in Rotherham with Bet365 which I think is good value. DYOR, of course.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone agree with me that it will slightly take the shine off a big Labour win if the Tories and RefUK combined get more votes than Labour? For example if it's Lab 40%, Con 25%, Ref 16%.

    No, because I think you'd have to compare Con+Ref with Lab+Green and arguably +LD, given their policy agenda. There's a comfortable majority for progressive policies in the UK right now.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    So it would appear that Liz Truss's interview was nothing to do with this Carl Benjamin character - she wasn't interviewed by him or on his show.

    https://www.gbnews.com/news/bev-turner-sits-down-with-connor-tomlinson-to-discuss-liz-truss-controversy-this-is-about-free-speech-right-vs-left
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249

    OnboardG1 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Are Reclaim standing anywhere? I saw that they are offering £5k to any candidate of any party that will agree to their 4 key policies.

    I get confused between them all. Reform, Reclaim, Rebound, Resuscitate, Regurgitate, Repatriate.

    Repeat ad infinitum
    Is that the conspiracy brigade that Lawrence Fox fronts?
    I know it is Fox's mob but I honestly don't know what they stand for. Have they ever made that clear or is it just another vanity project?
    I think it's basically conspiracy twitter copy-pasted into a pdf. Gay nazi communists are putting sex-change chemicals in the vaccines sort of unhinged drivel.
    No no no.

    Nazi gay islamic jewish communists are putting the sex-change chemicals in the *water*. The vaccines make you magnetic.

    OPE
    Water is very convenient for a shower but does anyone actually drink the stuff?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Having seen one or two clips, and from the seeming 'it was all crap' annoyance from our more left-inclined posters, can we chalk this up to a victory for the Faragegasm?

    Shall we see what the polls do?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Cookie said:

    Have we discussed the Conservative Party's failure to field a candidate in Rotherham? They were never going to win it, of course, but this is good news for Reform there (to a greater extent than the reverse might be). I still expect Labour to win it, but you can get 13-1 on Reform in Rotherham with Bet365 which I think is good value. DYOR, of course.

    Have the Tories given a reason for messing up?

    Someone earlier suggested it was the first time since 1970 that the Tories had failed to field a full slate of candidates in GB. Even in a total no-hoper of a seat, there’s always a keen youngster who wants to raise their profile.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    Peter Bowles, but his character was Richard De Vere...
    Richard De Vere was also in Pretty Woman.

    Pretty Woman, by the way, was released closer to the time that Anthony Eden was PM than to today.
    I don’t care if that is true. It’s wonderful like the fact that on a time basis it’s more accurate to depict a human to being mauled by a T-Rex than a stegosaurus.
    Alas, it's actually true
    Eden 1957 -> Pretty Woman 1990 -> Now 2024
    33 years, 34 years.
    My reference for that era is the song Ride On Time by Black Box, which was #1 all summer in 1989, 35 years ago.

    35 years before that, was 1954, the era of Doris Day and Frank Sinatra.
    Victorian era
    (59 years)
    The Beatles formed
    (64 years)
    Now
    D-Day - more precisely, as pointed out on here today, OVERLORD - was closer to the American Civil War than today ...
    Overlord was the overall operation

    Neptune was the landing on the beaches

    D-Day comes from the military code for dates and times. You never write down the details. Instead, the orders looked something like -

    "On D-Day, at H-Hour, M-Minute, units {something} will land on Omaha, Sword, Gold and Juno, At H+1....." etc

    The idea is that the vital information is in times and locations - which could then be tightly held, or changed and given late in the process.

    You missed out Utah...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Nigelb said:

    Watching The Acolyte (in sympathy with TSE).
    I get that the tech is resolutely 1970s - that’s just the origin story - but why is the costume aesthetic Middle Ages ?

    Also, what is going on with Lee Jung-jae’s hair ? He looks like a tramp.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    Peter Bowles, but his character was Richard De Vere...
    Richard De Vere was also in Pretty Woman.

    Pretty Woman, by the way, was released closer to the time that Anthony Eden was PM than to today.
    I don’t care if that is true. It’s wonderful like the fact that on a time basis it’s more accurate to depict a human to being mauled by a T-Rex than a stegosaurus.
    Alas, it's actually true
    Eden 1957 -> Pretty Woman 1990 -> Now 2024
    33 years, 34 years.
    My reference for that era is the song Ride On Time by Black Box, which was #1 all summer in 1989, 35 years ago.

    35 years before that, was 1954, the era of Doris Day and Frank Sinatra.
    I love that song, Ride On Time. 😊
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
    Username checks out. To be fair, had I not a deeply ingrained moral exception to internet piracy I would absolutely be pirating the F1. That Sky is allowed to squat both the TV and streaming rights is a fucking travesty.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,798
    Really good thread header by the way Robert.
    Personally, I don't consider the Reform to get second most seats particularly attractive ay 13-1. I'm predicting absolute Tory meltdown, but I think Reform's v9te to be too thinly spread to benefit. I think the maim beneficiaries will be Labour. I got on Lab 500 seats+ at 20-1 but I don't know if it's still available.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262

    OnboardG1 said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Are Reclaim standing anywhere? I saw that they are offering £5k to any candidate of any party that will agree to their 4 key policies.

    I get confused between them all. Reform, Reclaim, Rebound, Resuscitate, Regurgitate, Repatriate.

    Repeat ad infinitum
    Is that the conspiracy brigade that Lawrence Fox fronts?
    I know it is Fox's mob but I honestly don't know what they stand for. Have they ever made that clear or is it just another vanity project?
    I think it's basically conspiracy twitter copy-pasted into a pdf. Gay nazi communists are putting sex-change chemicals in the vaccines sort of unhinged drivel.
    No no no.

    Nazi gay islamic jewish communists are putting the sex-change chemicals in the *water*. The vaccines make you magnetic.

    OPE
    Water is very convenient for a shower but does anyone actually drink the stuff?
    Very useful for diluting @malcolmg's ration of cask strength turnip juice.

    Also for cooling nitration of toluene. But that's another story.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Cookie said:

    Have we discussed the Conservative Party's failure to field a candidate in Rotherham? They were never going to win it, of course, but this is good news for Reform there (to a greater extent than the reverse might be). I still expect Labour to win it, but you can get 13-1 on Reform in Rotherham with Bet365 which I think is good value. DYOR, of course.

    The Conservative candidate was supposed to be the current councillor for Lancaster Gate in Kensington & Chelsea, Laila Cunningham. It'll be interesting to find out why she pulled out at such a late stage that the Tories didn't have time to replace her with another candidate.

    https://committees.westminster.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=20787
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Chameleon said:

    Tories looking like value in Leicester East - area is getting more Hindu, which as a demographic is going Conservative, Hindu candidate, Hindu PM, 3* unknown Indies, Labour (living in London), Webbe, Vaz, Lab, LD, and Greens all standing. Floor of 35 odd percent should be enough.

    Perhaps once he loses Rishi could stand for Mayor of Leicester, only place in the UK he seems to have raised Tory voteshare?

    Might need to go on a course on effective political management first though
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Having seen one or two clips, and from the seeming 'it was all crap' annoyance from our more left-inclined posters, can we chalk this up to a victory for the Faragegasm?

    Knock yourself out.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Andy_JS said:

    Liquid checks to be re-introduced at airports which had briefly got rid of them.

    Talk about going backwards.

    Any reason given? Someone got wind of something?
    IIRC the pilot of dropping the checks involved new-tech scanners, so the assumption would be that the new scanners aren’t as good as the salesman said they were. Presumably spooks ‘mystery shop’ airports with genuine explosives (stored safely) from time to time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited June 7

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone agree with me that it will slightly take the shine off a big Labour win if the Tories and RefUK combined get more votes than Labour? For example if it's Lab 40%, Con 25%, Ref 16%.

    No, because I think you'd have to compare Con+Ref with Lab+Green and arguably +LD, given their policy agenda. There's a comfortable majority for progressive policies in the UK right now.
    But compare it with 1997. Con + Referendum Party was 31%+3% = 34%, miles behind the Labour total of 44% (before you start adding the LD and Green shares to Lab).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,798

    Having seen one or two clips, and from the seeming 'it was all crap' annoyance from our more left-inclined posters, can we chalk this up to a victory for the Faragegasm?

    Faragasm, surely? Anything else would be missing a lovely linguistic opportunity.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
    I prefer the term piracy myself.

    At the end of the day I paid for the rights for years but its absurd how expensive the cost is in this country, when you only get some of the rights, when you can pay relative peanuts abroad and get all of the rights.

    If I could pay a package and get all of the rights with it all in one package, as you can abroad, then I would do so for the convenience of it.

    But you can't. You're forced either to pirate half the games or miss them entirely despite paying an absolute bloody fortune for the rights.

    And if you're going to pirate half, you may as well pirate all.

    If a bit of piracy encourages the Premier League to fix the mess, then that'd be a good thing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    So it would appear that Liz Truss's interview was nothing to do with this Carl Benjamin character - she wasn't interviewed by him or on his show.

    https://www.gbnews.com/news/bev-turner-sits-down-with-connor-tomlinson-to-discuss-liz-truss-controversy-this-is-about-free-speech-right-vs-left

    Yes, a whole day of everyone shouting about how awful it was for Truss to be associating with someone as evil as Carl Benjamin - but the interview was actually with another presenter and Benjamin wasn’t involved.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,059

    So it would appear that Liz Truss's interview was nothing to do with this Carl Benjamin character - she wasn't interviewed by him or on his show.

    https://www.gbnews.com/news/bev-turner-sits-down-with-connor-tomlinson-to-discuss-liz-truss-controversy-this-is-about-free-speech-right-vs-left

    It was on Lotus Eaters, which is Benjamin's channel.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    Having seen one or two clips, and from the seeming 'it was all crap' annoyance from our more left-inclined posters, can we chalk this up to a victory for the Faragegasm?

    No, not particularly. He was reasonably assured, as he always is. He’s a more seasoned performer than most on the stage tonight. But not a vintage performance- he seemed a bit old hat and, dare I say, a tad like he was just wearily dialling in the greatest hits.

    Nobody was terrible, though Mordaunt was certainly not great. Flynn blew his dog whistles about as effectively as Farage blew his.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Andy_JS said:

    Liquid checks to be re-introduced at airports which had briefly got rid of them.

    Talk about going backwards.

    Any reason given? Someone got wind of something?
    I don’t think it matters. Next week I fly through Aberdeen, Luton and Gatwick airports. No point on ABZ having “bring what you want” rules if it isn’t the same for the return journey
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    So it would appear that Liz Truss's interview was nothing to do with this Carl Benjamin character - she wasn't interviewed by him or on his show.

    https://www.gbnews.com/news/bev-turner-sits-down-with-connor-tomlinson-to-discuss-liz-truss-controversy-this-is-about-free-speech-right-vs-left

    Isn't fake news awful.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
    I prefer the term piracy myself.

    At the end of the day I paid for the rights for years but its absurd how expensive the cost is in this country, when you only get some of the rights, when you can pay relative peanuts abroad and get all of the rights.

    If I could pay a package and get all of the rights with it all in one package, as you can abroad, then I would do so for the convenience of it.

    But you can't. You're forced either to pirate half the games or miss them entirely despite paying an absolute bloody fortune for the rights.

    And if you're going to pirate half, you may as well pirate all.

    If a bit of piracy encourages the Premier League to fix the mess, then that'd be a good thing.
    Generally my view although I forgo it all together. The consolidation of the sports-broadcast market here and the overabundance of exclusivity deals is making it impossible to actually watch half the sport you might want to. If I lived in the Netherlands I could watch my broom-broom race for £13 a month, which is a fair price for a grand-prix and some behind-the-scenes extras. Here the cheapest I can get it is £30 which includes a significant amount of bullshit that I don't want to watch. I just like F1, not football, or rugby or whatever petanque-level nonsense Sky is padding their packages with today to justify the cost.

    As Gabe Newell said once: Piracy is a customer service problem.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Liquid checks to be re-introduced at airports which had briefly got rid of them.

    Talk about going backwards.

    Any reason given? Someone got wind of something?
    IIRC the pilot of dropping the checks involved new-tech scanners, so the assumption would be that the new scanners aren’t as good as the salesman said they were. Presumably spooks ‘mystery shop’ airports with genuine explosives (stored safely) from time to time.
    A vast fortune is made by the shops selling stuff beyond the security checks at high prices.

    There is absolutely no chance that they would put pressure on the airports to reintroduce the bans. No Sir.

    It's not as if the rents from such shops form a huge revenue stream for the airports.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    Peter Bowles, but his character was Richard De Vere...
    Richard De Vere was also in Pretty Woman.

    Pretty Woman, by the way, was released closer to the time that Anthony Eden was PM than to today.
    I don’t care if that is true. It’s wonderful like the fact that on a time basis it’s more accurate to depict a human to being mauled by a T-Rex than a stegosaurus.
    Alas, it's actually true
    Eden 1957 -> Pretty Woman 1990 -> Now 2024
    33 years, 34 years.
    My reference for that era is the song Ride On Time by Black Box, which was #1 all summer in 1989, 35 years ago.

    35 years before that, was 1954, the era of Doris Day and Frank Sinatra.
    Victorian era
    (59 years)
    The Beatles formed
    (64 years)
    Now
    D-Day - more precisely, as pointed out on here today, OVERLORD - was closer to the American Civil War than today ...
    Overlord was the overall operation

    Neptune was the landing on the beaches

    D-Day comes from the military code for dates and times. You never write down the details. Instead, the orders looked something like -

    "On D-Day, at H-Hour, M-Minute, units {something} will land on Omaha, Sword, Gold and Juno, At H+1....." etc

    The idea is that the vital information is in times and locations - which could then be tightly held, or changed and given late in the process.

    Sure; I was using OVERLORD because of that, as 'D-Day' applied also to DRAGOON and LIGHTNING and many another operation, amphibious or otherwise.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone agree with me that it will slightly take the shine off a big Labour win if the Tories and RefUK combined get more votes than Labour? For example if it's Lab 40%, Con 25%, Ref 16%.

    No, because I think you'd have to compare Con+Ref with Lab+Green and arguably +LD, given their policy agenda. There's a comfortable majority for progressive policies in the UK right now.
    But compare it with 1997. Con + Referendum Party was 31%+3% = 34%, miles behind the Labour total of 44% (before you start adding the LD and Green shares to Lab).
    The average Con-Ref total across pollsters is about 35-36%, so it’s really not far off. The main difference from 1997 is the Lib Dem score is much lower. I’d say several percent of the 1990s LD vote was none of the above, a role Reform now play.

    The left-right blocs on substantive issues are probably similar to how they were in the 90s.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
    I prefer the term piracy myself.

    At the end of the day I paid for the rights for years but its absurd how expensive the cost is in this country, when you only get some of the rights, when you can pay relative peanuts abroad and get all of the rights.

    If I could pay a package and get all of the rights with it all in one package, as you can abroad, then I would do so for the convenience of it.

    But you can't. You're forced either to pirate half the games or miss them entirely despite paying an absolute bloody fortune for the rights.

    And if you're going to pirate half, you may as well pirate all.

    If a bit of piracy encourages the Premier League to fix the mess, then that'd be a good thing.
    You don’t want to ever walk into a bar in any other English-speaking country at 3pm UK time on Saturday, and watch five screens showing five matches simultaneously, including the commentary.

    Blackouts just don’t work any more in the internet era, and only encourage the streamers over the legitimate rights holders.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    OnboardG1 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
    Username checks out. To be fair, had I not a deeply ingrained moral exception to internet piracy I would absolutely be pirating the F1. That Sky is allowed to squat both the TV and streaming rights is a fucking travesty.
    F1 - Amazon uk sell me a f1 pro tv subscription every month. My firestick pretends that I’m in the Netherlands and everything works fine. Cost £7.99 a month and I suspect sky would have great difficulty prosecuting me..
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Recent ex-head of Sky News tells Newsnight there is something odd about Cameron taking over the duties in Normandy and meeting Biden while Sunak headed home. Surely Cameron would have asked why on earth etc.

    This guy says he reckons the full story has yet to come out.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited June 7
    These are the 4 candidates facing the electorate in Rotherham:

    Labour
    Worker's Party
    Green
    Reform UK

    What could possibly go wrong? Well done Tories.

    https://x.com/WillReformUK/status/1799110792585052192
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    eek said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    I don’t know who they are. Before my time.

    The 1970’s are half a century ago :open_mouth:

    I know the phrase ‘to the manner born’
    Do you only know about things that have happened in your lifetime?
    Most people know things that happened in their lifetime better, yes.

    I know To the Manor Born as it was still getting repeated in the 90s when I was a teen, but I wouldn't expect anyone younger than me to know it.
    It's sometimes shown on BBC2 on Tuesday evenings along with Yes Minister.
    Yes, but how many young people watch BBC on Tuesday evenings?

    I haven't watched live TV in years. My kids pretty much never have and probably never will.
    You never watch live sport?
    Sky Sports was the last live TV I watched about two years ago.

    Cancelled my Sky subscription when we moved a couple of years ago, I got pissed off that about half the games I wanted to watch with my subscription weren't available to watch with it and an alternative method of streaming them was required so eventually just started streaming all rather than half.

    Now I just stream sport. Probably best not to say how.
    'Theft' is the word you're looking for, I believe.
    Username checks out. To be fair, had I not a deeply ingrained moral exception to internet piracy I would absolutely be pirating the F1. That Sky is allowed to squat both the TV and streaming rights is a fucking travesty.
    F1 - Amazon uk sell me a f1 pro tv subscription every month. My firestick pretends that I’m in the Netherlands and everything works fine. Cost £7.99 a month and I suspect sky would have great difficulty prosecuting me..
    I didn't realise Amazon did that. I've also read that there are a few public access broadcasters you can piggyback off of with a VPN.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    What happened to the supposed Mass Defection Event which was rumoured to trigger the Farage-gasm?

    Didn’t happen.

    This has been an appalling week for the Tories, but I wonder if Reform will really profit sustainably.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    So it would appear that Liz Truss's interview was nothing to do with this Carl Benjamin character - she wasn't interviewed by him or on his show.

    https://www.gbnews.com/news/bev-turner-sits-down-with-connor-tomlinson-to-discuss-liz-truss-controversy-this-is-about-free-speech-right-vs-left

    Is this a fake podcast then? https://www.lotuseaters.com/tomlinson-talks-or-the-liz-truss-interview-29-05-2024
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Congratulations to @david_herdson running for the Yorkshire Party in Ossett & Denny Dale

    https://x.com/davidherdson/status/1799150726356103590?s=46

    Well done David.

    Do we have a list yet of PBers standing for election?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Recent ex-head of Sky News tells Newsnight there is something odd about Cameron taking over the duties in Normandy and meeting Biden while Sunak headed home. Surely Cameron would have asked why on earth etc.

    This guy says he reckons the full story has yet to come out.

    The answer is probably that Sunak didn't tell him, and Cameron only found out when someone said "Oh you're due over in the leader's pen in 15 minutes",
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Tories looking like value in Leicester East - area is getting more Hindu, which as a demographic is going Conservative, Hindu candidate, Hindu PM, 3* unknown Indies, Labour (living in London), Webbe, Vaz, Lab, LD, and Greens all standing. Floor of 35 odd percent should be enough.

    Perhaps once he loses Rishi could stand for Mayor of Leicester, only place in the UK he seems to have raised Tory voteshare?

    Might need to go on a course on effective political management first though
    I can see he's lost his shine for you somewhat.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,798
    Andy_JS said:

    These are the 4 candidates facing the electorate in Rotherham:

    Labour
    Worker's Party
    Green
    Reform UK

    What could possibly go wrong? Well done Tories.

    https://x.com/WillReformUK/status/1799110792585052192

    No LDs? Are the LDs still in a pact with the Greens?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
    At £2m or so they're already evading or avoiding IHT so HYUFD's suggestion is about as useful as a chocolate welding torch.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I watched the debate.

    Mordaunt did surprisingly well, given the appalling wicket. Rayner was fluid annd imperious. Farage delivered some great lines but we’ve heard it all before.

    The Welsh guy, Cooper and the Scottish guy were all fine.

    The Green was totally cringe.

    Doubt it changed a single vote, so on those grounds, Labour “won”.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    "Catastrophic" says Luke Tyle - focus group guru - tells Newsnight, on Sunak's day out to France.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    Fair enough but we all pluck these figures out of our arses, £2m etc. why not get some seriously bright people to work out a plan where you can leave your loved ones your hard earned but respect that there land is worthless if there are hungry reevers ready to take it from them. Every bit of wealth in the ipuk is requiring stability and society to make it worth anything.

    Get a commission to analyse property transfer, cash/stock transfer, give it different levels that allow the originator of the wealth to support their progeny but also to reflect that their progeny had absolutely no input or skill in making it.

    It’s the Succession thing. I remember watching succession and laughing where they were fighting the dad about what he did with the money as it was wha ie seen personally. You want to scream at them and say “ you didn’t make this money you entitled fuckers”. There has to be a balance between setting your family up with understanding it doesn’t happen if society doesn’t work. You can have an amazing house but it’s shit if there are no cleaners and gardeners. It’s great having money to eat out but pointless if there are no waiters or bar staff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 7

    What happened to the supposed Mass Defection Event which was rumoured to trigger the Farage-gasm?

    Didn’t happen.

    This has been an appalling week for the Tories, but I wonder if Reform will really profit sustainably.

    Reform haven't even managed to get a candidate nominated for over 60% Leave Epping Forest!

    Yes they are fighting most seats but they seem to have found candidates in almost every seat in inner London where they have zero chance but not in what should be some prime targets for them like Epping Forest. Whoever was getting their candidates confirmed obviously is no master strategist
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,262
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    boulay said:

    Farooq said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener said:

    Penny Mordaunt is hectoring and constantly interrupting. Really hope she loses her seat. Ghastly woman.

    Less of the misogyny please, referring to her sex as a derogatory point is beneath you. You could have said “ghastly person” but ghastly woman is so loaded with some retro sexist memories of “to the manor born” and all that.
    I like how all the OnlyFans references were ok but "ghastly woman" was somehow noteworthy
    I was being ever so serious. Heathener is suitably strong, apparently accomplished and confident to give it out and take it back - it would probs be more sexist to think anyone had to rein it in because she’s a she.
    Yeah I don’t have a problem with you calling it out. But what is to the manor born?
    Really? Penelope Kieth, Richard Bowles? Huge in the late 1970s.
    Peter Bowles, but his character was Richard De Vere...
    Richard De Vere was also in Pretty Woman.

    Pretty Woman, by the way, was released closer to the time that Anthony Eden was PM than to today.
    I don’t care if that is true. It’s wonderful like the fact that on a time basis it’s more accurate to depict a human to being mauled by a T-Rex than a stegosaurus.
    Alas, it's actually true
    Eden 1957 -> Pretty Woman 1990 -> Now 2024
    33 years, 34 years.
    My reference for that era is the song Ride On Time by Black Box, which was #1 all summer in 1989, 35 years ago.

    35 years before that, was 1954, the era of Doris Day and Frank Sinatra.
    Victorian era
    (59 years)
    The Beatles formed
    (64 years)
    Now
    D-Day - more precisely, as pointed out on here today, OVERLORD - was closer to the American Civil War than today ...
    Overlord was the overall operation

    Neptune was the landing on the beaches

    D-Day comes from the military code for dates and times. You never write down the details. Instead, the orders looked something like -

    "On D-Day, at H-Hour, M-Minute, units {something} will land on Omaha, Sword, Gold and Juno, At H+1....." etc

    The idea is that the vital information is in times and locations - which could then be tightly held, or changed and given late in the process.

    Sure; I was using OVERLORD because of that, as 'D-Day' applied also to DRAGOON and LIGHTNING and many another operation, amphibious or otherwise.
    Not to mention - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Titanic
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,220
    Andy_JS said:

    These are the 4 candidates facing the electorate in Rotherham:

    Labour
    Worker's Party
    Green
    Reform UK

    What could possibly go wrong? Well done Tories.

    https://x.com/WillReformUK/status/1799110792585052192

    Wiki being incomplete. There's a Lib Dem, Indy and Yorkshire Party candidate as well.

    https://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/people/your-list-of-general-election-2024-candidates-for-rotherhams-three-seats-4658107
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited June 7
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
    At £2m or so they're already evading or avoiding IHT so HYUFD's suggestion is about as useful as a chocolate welding torch.
    Property tends to be the big crunch for going over thresholds and people get attached to family homes. So I tend to think that there should be a relatively high rate, low threshold but with a carve out for one property. Provided you live in it for five years. Sell it within that time and the taxman comes knocking.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Heathener’s claim to have never heard of “To The Manor Born” is like that scene from Inglorious Basterds where the spy outs himself as non-German with the wrong hand gesture.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Daily Star having some fun:

    image
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994

    I watched the debate.

    Mordaunt did surprisingly well, given the appalling wicket. Rayner was fluid annd imperious. Farage delivered some great lines but we’ve heard it all before.

    The Welsh guy, Cooper and the Scottish guy were all fine.

    The Green was totally cringe.

    Doubt it changed a single vote, so on those grounds, Labour “won”.

    I think on tonight’s performance the most fertile ground to neutralise Farage is probably the old hat, same old tune thing. But the only party with any real electoral interest in neutralising Reform are the Tories and they are playing a similar tune themselves.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited June 7
    Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rishi Sunak doesn't know what he's doing.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    Fair enough but we all pluck these figures out of our arses, £2m etc. why not get some seriously bright people to work out a plan where you can leave your loved ones your hard earned but respect that there land is worthless if there are hungry reevers ready to take it from them. Every bit of wealth in the ipuk is requiring stability and society to make it worth anything.

    Get a commission to analyse property transfer, cash/stock transfer, give it different levels that allow the originator of the wealth to support their progeny but also to reflect that their progeny had absolutely no input or skill in making it.

    It’s the Succession thing. I remember watching succession and laughing where they were fighting the dad about what he did with the money as it was wha ie seen personally. You want to scream at them and say “ you didn’t make this money you entitled fuckers”. There has to be a balance between setting your family up with understanding it doesn’t happen if society doesn’t work. You can have an amazing house but it’s shit if there are no cleaners and gardeners. It’s great having money to eat out but pointless if there are no waiters or bar staff.
    Surely if you have some inherited wealth you would be able to be more likely to afford to pay the wages of cleaners and gardeners or have some more meals and drinks out to pay waiters or bar staff?

    If you really dislike inherited wealth you are likely voting Labour anyway or even Liberal, not for the Tories
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Daily Star having some fun:

    image

    The Star continuing its run as "Best British Tabloid" by an unconquerable margin.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Tories appear to have been blindsided by the surprise Election call.
    Typical of 14 disastrous and devious years of Labour.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    I see the Daily Express has clarified that Sunak's D-Day apology is 'to Daily Express readers'.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    edited June 7
    OnboardG1 said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
    At £2m or so they're already evading or avoiding IHT so HYUFD's suggestion is about as useful as a chocolate welding torch.
    Property tends to be the big crunch for going over thresholds and people get attached to family homes. So I tend to think that there should be a relatively high rate, low threshold but with a carve out for one property. Provided you live in it for five years. Sell it within that time and the taxman comes knocking.
    No good; that merely pampers Tory voters in the Home Counties as opposed to Labour voters in Sedgefield and drives up the hotspot around London*. I'm coming round to the idea of abolishing IHT and imposing CGT on all inheritances - everyone has an allowance, and so on.

    *Which is why HYUFD loves it, not entirely irrationally for him.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Heathener’s claim to have never heard of “To The Manor Born” is like that scene from Inglorious Basterds where the spy outs himself as non-German with the wrong hand gesture.

    So heathener isn’t the clever Jewish girl who avoids the kosher trap in the restaurant with the cream cake?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,994
    HYUFD said:

    What happened to the supposed Mass Defection Event which was rumoured to trigger the Farage-gasm?

    Didn’t happen.

    This has been an appalling week for the Tories, but I wonder if Reform will really profit sustainably.

    Reform haven't even managed to get a candidate nominated for over 60% Leave Epping Forest!

    Yes they are fighting most seats but they seem to have found candidates in almost every seat in inner London where they have zero chance but not in what should be some prime targets for them like Epping Forest. Whoever was getting their candidates confirmed obviously is no master strategist
    A paper party. Another reason Conservatives will end up getting over 30% come the actual election.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    edited June 7
    OnboardG1 said:

    Recent ex-head of Sky News tells Newsnight there is something odd about Cameron taking over the duties in Normandy and meeting Biden while Sunak headed home. Surely Cameron would have asked why on earth etc.

    This guy says he reckons the full story has yet to come out.

    The answer is probably that Sunak didn't tell him, and Cameron only found out when someone said "Oh you're due over in the leader's pen in 15 minutes",
    I saw a clip of someone from ConHome saying that TeamSunak don’t let anyone in on their thinking. He mentioned Rishi announcing the abolition of T levels in T levels week without telling the education minister who was doing the rounds praising them.

    So Cameron not finding out until the last minute sounds plausible. I know he was backing Sunak earlier today but I suspect he’s privately seething just too much of a pro to vent this side of the election.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 7
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    Fair enough but we all pluck these figures out of our arses, £2m etc. why not get some seriously bright people to work out a plan where you can leave your loved ones your hard earned but respect that there land is worthless if there are hungry reevers ready to take it from them. Every bit of wealth in the ipuk is requiring stability and society to make it worth anything.

    Get a commission to analyse property transfer, cash/stock transfer, give it different levels that allow the originator of the wealth to support their progeny but also to reflect that their progeny had absolutely no input or skill in making it.

    It’s the Succession thing. I remember watching succession and laughing where they were fighting the dad about what he did with the money as it was wha ie seen personally. You want to scream at them and say “ you didn’t make this money you entitled fuckers”. There has to be a balance between setting your family up with understanding it doesn’t happen if society doesn’t work. You can have an amazing house but it’s shit if there are no cleaners and gardeners. It’s great having money to eat out but pointless if there are no waiters or bar staff.
    Either abolish inheritance tax altogether, or have it as 10% on everything for everyone.

    The 40% rates make it attractive for the seriously wealthy to plan around it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,633

    Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rishi Sunak doesn't know what he's doing.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.

    Which is?
  • PJHPJH Posts: 645
    Andy_JS said:

    These are the 4 candidates facing the electorate in Rotherham:

    Labour
    Worker's Party
    Green
    Reform UK

    What could possibly go wrong? Well done Tories.

    https://x.com/WillReformUK/status/1799110792585052192

    Apart from the other 3 candidates, of course (LD, Yorks, Ind)
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    What I would like to do is put all inheritance tax in a year into a pot and dish it out in equal shares to all kids turning 18 in the following year. There's nothing wrong with inheritance, but it just shouldn't be going to less and less of the population each generation.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rishi Sunak doesn't know what he's doing.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.

    Which is what?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rishi Sunak doesn't know what he's doing.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.

    Which is?
    Losing
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Carnyx said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
    At £2m or so they're already evading or avoiding IHT so HYUFD's suggestion is about as useful as a chocolate welding torch.
    Property tends to be the big crunch for going over thresholds and people get attached to family homes. So I tend to think that there should be a relatively high rate, low threshold but with a carve out for one property. Provided you live in it for five years. Sell it within that time and the taxman comes knocking.
    No good; that merely pampers Tory voters in the Home Counties as opposed to Labour voters in Sedgefield and drives up the hotspot around London*. I'm coming round to the idea of abolishing IHT and imposing CGT on all inheritances - everyone has an allowance, and so on.

    *Which is why HYUFD loves it, not entirely irrationally for him.
    Also a reasonable way of doing it. The money from my grandmother's home was welcome given house prices but I can't exactly justify the zero tax we paid on it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    I see the Daily Express has clarified that Sunak's D-Day apology is 'to Daily Express readers'.

    Are they the only ones he thinks are still listening?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    boulay said:

    Heathener’s claim to have never heard of “To The Manor Born” is like that scene from Inglorious Basterds where the spy outs himself as non-German with the wrong hand gesture.

    So heathener isn’t the clever Jewish girl who avoids the kosher trap in the restaurant with the cream cake?
    Not fair to Heathener. I've never seen it myself and know of it only by incidental mentions such as this on PB. Wasn't interested in that sort of stuff.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785

    Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rishi Sunak doesn't know what he's doing.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.

    Which is what?
    Interpretive dance.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    At the end of the day, Farage simply has no organisational ability whatsoever. He’s a more gurning, toad-like Johnson.

    He’s managed to piss off Tice, and between them they haven’t actually managed to field a full slate of candidates. And the candidates are bunch of complete non-entities.

    Sell Reform.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,633
    ohnotnow said:

    Let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Rishi Sunak doesn't know what he's doing.

    He knows exactly what he's doing.

    Which is what?
    Interpretive dance.
    That was Theresa May.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    DavidL said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Flynn: Scotland owns all the weather.

    We had hailstones two days in a row this week. In June. Bloody global warming.
    Climate Chaos please - didn’t you get the memo?
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    Daily Star having some fun:

    image

    Biggles? Wasn't Biggles a hero?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    Carnyx said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
    At £2m or so they're already evading or avoiding IHT so HYUFD's suggestion is about as useful as a chocolate welding torch.
    Property tends to be the big crunch for going over thresholds and people get attached to family homes. So I tend to think that there should be a relatively high rate, low threshold but with a carve out for one property. Provided you live in it for five years. Sell it within that time and the taxman comes knocking.
    No good; that merely pampers Tory voters in the Home Counties as opposed to Labour voters in Sedgefield and drives up the hotspot around London*. I'm coming round to the idea of abolishing IHT and imposing CGT on all inheritances - everyone has an allowance, and so on.

    *Which is why HYUFD loves it, not entirely irrationally for him.
    Abolish Inheritance Tax altogether and simply tax all inheritances as income.

    Anyone working for a living shouldn't be taxed at a higher rate than someone inheriting one.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Heathener’s claim to have never heard of “To The Manor Born” is like that scene from Inglorious Basterds where the spy outs himself as non-German with the wrong hand gesture.

    So heathener isn’t the clever Jewish girl who avoids the kosher trap in the restaurant with the cream cake?
    Not fair to Heathener. I've never seen it myself and know of it only by incidental mentions such as this on PB. Wasn't interested in that sort of stuff.
    Sorry it was in reference to Inglorious bastards and I have no doubt that H is as sharp as the sharpest tack.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Said it before.
    When a political story makes the Star front page it's cut through.
    It is the antennae of the low information voters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    dixiedean said:

    Said it before.
    When a political story makes the Star front page it's cut through.
    It is the antennae of the low information voters.

    Indeed. They invented the “lettuce”.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Matthew Parris: "Is it too late for Rishi Sunak to fall on his sword?"

    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/is-it-too-late-for-sunak-to-fall-on-his-sword-rr63k0p8h
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Andy_JS said:
    Oh dear.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Oh dear.
    I am absolutely certain that the electorate would be ever so forgiving of a Tory leadership contest three weeks from an election,.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:
    At this rate he'd probably miss.
    His sword is rather small anyway.
    More of a prick, really.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    Carnyx said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    10m
    Tory HQ desperately shovelling out the entire manifesto tonight to try and move the agenda on from D-Day is a further example of the chaos inside the campaign.

    Yet no proposed IHT cut, despite Reform now raising the IHT threshold to £2 million?

    A Stamp Duty cut for a few first time buyers isn't going to make any significant difference to Tory voteshare.

    If that is all Sunak and Hunt have bring back Theresa May I say, at least she managed to write a manifesto that got the Tories over 40% and over 300 seats not heading for near wipeout!
    There are a lot of people who are also Tory voters, me for example (ok I can’t vote) who have issues about inheritance tax being cut.

    A lot of Tory voters, or target voters, have worked their bollocks off but also mixed with people who haven’t, their friends and associates have pocketed money without any effort. They see very very stupid friends walking out with millions without any skills or brains and there is a British, and Danish, thing where people aren’t happy with people flashing it without earning it.

    I have many friends who’ve inherited serious millions, some have worked hard to prove themselves worthy, some have been determined to use the money as a platform to outperform, some have used the money to do good, some are lazy fuckers who have no clue - and every time the ones who are the latter are the ones who treat waiters terribly, are entitled, have no direction or fear of what comes next.

    There has to be an inheritance tax so nobody can just not contribute. Some wise soul said, I want to leave them enough to do something but not enough to do nothing.

    A lot of people don’t understand that without a successful society arounfpd them, a stable society, their properties would be worthless, their shares worthless etc.

    It’s not money the inheritors strived for and it was on the back of millions of people who struggled but accepted an unequal society. There needs to be a balance otherwise the ones who have nothing stop tolerating the others.
    I am not saying there should be not inheritance tax at all, though 55% say it should be abolished completely but certainly the threshold should be raised to £2million+ in my view so only the very richest pay that.

    65% of voters and 77% of Tory voters back raising the threshold above £325k

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/our-news/press-releases/yougov-poll-shows-majority-of-public-now-supports-scrapping-iht-and-even-a-majority-of-labour-voters-oppose-raising-the-current-40-iht-rate
    A rate of 20 or 25% with a lower exempt amount would quite possibly bring in more than IHT currently does.
    At £2m or so they're already evading or avoiding IHT so HYUFD's suggestion is about as useful as a chocolate welding torch.
    Property tends to be the big crunch for going over thresholds and people get attached to family homes. So I tend to think that there should be a relatively high rate, low threshold but with a carve out for one property. Provided you live in it for five years. Sell it within that time and the taxman comes knocking.
    No good; that merely pampers Tory voters in the Home Counties as opposed to Labour voters in Sedgefield and drives up the hotspot around London*. I'm coming round to the idea of abolishing IHT and imposing CGT on all inheritances - everyone has an allowance, and so on.

    *Which is why HYUFD loves it, not entirely irrationally for him.
    Abolish Inheritance Tax altogether and simply tax all inheritances as income.

    Anyone working for a living shouldn't be taxed at a higher rate than someone inheriting one.
    Not income, but capital, so CGT would apply. In fact back in the 1970s it was Capital Transfer Tax that was applied to estates - I've seen it in old family records.
This discussion has been closed.