Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
@DougSeal wants to pretend the Good Friday Agreement doesn't actually exist and that we need to set UK-wide laws to keep Irish republicans in Belfast happy, rather than actually respect the GFA and treat NI as a special case.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
Can't people born in Northern Ireland choose to be Irish citizens if they wish? Which would not remove their ability to vote in a UK election, as things stand, as noted.
Do we know how many seats the Tories still don’t have a candidate for?
And do we know the same for the LDs and Reform?
And MK? Ah, here's the answer:
Mebyon Kernow can confirm that it will not be putting forward candidates for the 2024 General Election. We have taken the conscious decision to focus MK’s resources onto the 2025 local elections, where we expect to make significant progress.
One (at least) wonders, just how many candidates for CUP, LAB, LDM, GRN, REF, SNP, PC, ABC, XYZ, etc. been suborned or otherwise entrapped in the dastardly coils of extreme Mebyon Kerneow (XMK) and it's sinister aspiration to absorb everything from the Tamar to Shepherd's Bush roundabout?
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
Another moron speaks! They’re also Irish citizens - a fact cemented by the GFA. Nearly half of them resent being described as British - or were you not aware of that? They won’t vote in an election that requires them to identify as such.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
Can't people born in Northern Ireland choose to be Irish citizens if they wish? Which would not remove their ability to vote in a UK election, as things stand, as noted.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Would any of the Tory leadership contenders be a better leader of the opposition than Farage?
All of them
Who would you like to see as Tory leader?
That's an interesting question. The honest and obvious answer is nobody that's left. I would have liked any number of those that were culled by BoZo. Rory would have given it a good shot. So I think we need to wait and see who survives, or who arrives.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
Do we know how many seats the Tories still don’t have a candidate for?
And do we know the same for the LDs and Reform?
And MK? Ah, here's the answer:
Mebyon Kernow can confirm that it will not be putting forward candidates for the 2024 General Election. We have taken the conscious decision to focus MK’s resources onto the 2025 local elections, where we expect to make significant progress.
One (at least) wonders, just how many candidates for CUP, LAB, LDM, GRN, REF, SNP, PC, ABC, XYZ, etc. been suborned or otherwise entrapped in the dastardly coils of extreme Mebyon Kerneow (XMK) and it's sinister aspiration to absorb everything from the Tamar to Shepherd's Bush roundabout?
pedantic betting time as I come from cornwall...its not kerneow....its Kernow
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
Another moron speaks! They’re also Irish citizens - a fact cemented by the GFA. Nearly half of them resent being described as British - or were you not aware of that? They won’t vote in an election that requires them to identify as such.
Also entitled to be Irish citizens, not by default.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
Sadly I think your last paragraph is no longer accurate. I know several people whith life threatening conditions who have opted to go private because they have no immediate prospect of meaningful treatment on the NHS. People dying on waiting lists is an established fact.
But I agree with you that Starmer can't win and that is to the shame of our political commentariate. I would like to see him staate clearly that, yes he would use private health care if necessary, which for one thing would ease pressure on the NHS just a little, but that the aim should be to make going private unecessary.
I don't think he needs to say something like this, and I'm certainly not a Tory saying he's an evil man for his words on this topic, but I do think his language on the NHS, sincerely or for political reasons, is overly sentimental (not an uncommon situation), and I think that's strange and more problematic than we would like. A cold eyed view of the NHS would not go amiss in our politics. That doesn't mean it should be instantly dismantled or something, but politicians are terrified of people thinking that.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Indeed.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
So very rich bloke wont go private so someone elses mum has to stay on a waiting list.
If you Baxter the YouGov poll based on their previous methodology, this is the result:
Party - Share - Seats CON - 18.0% - 19 LAB - 45.0% - 546 LIB - 8.0% - 47 Reform - 18.0% - 0 Green - 6.0% - 2 SNP - 3.1% - 14 PlaidC - 0.7% - 4
So 36% of the UK voters vote for a right of centre party but they get just 2% of the MPs?
As I said, dividing the right under FPTP is suicide, unless Reform and the Tories merge they may as well both back PR
No, Reform can replace the Tories. That is the aim
Which does make the Reform wannabee Tories practically bending over for them a bit sad. Maybe they should be sent that clip from Darkest Hour about not reasoning with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.
But it will be fun if the Tories become supportive of PR whilst Labour, who are more divided on the matter anyway, decide its too much trouble to change the voting system.
Political parties are not nations. They are just vehicles to achieve a particular political outcome.
Maybe we are too sentimental about them here and should be more like the French.
Quite right too. I could never understand those Unionists who thought that asking what would happen to the SNP after independence was some sort of killer question.
On the other han d - some of us have lifetimes invested in their parties, and can't bear to lose that.
Under FPTP the only result of Reform overtaking the Tories is likely 10-20 years of continued Labour majority government under FPTP shifting us ever more Woke in direction.
Unless Reform not only replace but merge with the Tories that is the end result of FPTP of a divided right. It is only viable to have separate Reform and Tory Parties both getting 15-25% of the vote with PR
I have never been a fan of FPTP because I believe it drives negative campaigning and encourages people to vote against things. I had an exchange with my (Tory) MP about it a few years back who followed the Tory line of ‘strong government’ (the irony given the last few years of Tory rule did not seem to worry him). I wonder how Tory MPs are feeling now? Farage has out manoeuvred them in many ways. The Tories are in danger of being a squeezed party of the centre. Their only other option is being forced too far right for many of the traditional one world conservatives to be prepared to tolerate.
The chance of 10-20 years of labour majority government is very low. The labour party will have exactly the same problems that the Conservative party had, but they have no real idea how to deal with them. They may be free of some problematic elements, like MP's protesting against any housebuilding and a reliance on the triple lock client vote, but then they have others, like the protesting public sector workers demanding vast amounts of money, and a rump of Corbynite MPs. It is all the same thing. They will be unable to hold back on the desire to try and legislate to try and fix every problem, thus creating more process, that in turn makes public administration more impossible than it already is. They will have a load of crippling and intractible problems inherited from the failure of the current government. I think the most likely situation is a short honeymoon of 'strong and stable' followed by dissolution in to the a similar chaos to what we have just been seeing. It could well be that the current election finishes off the Conservative Party and the next election finishes off the Labour Party.
What I think will happen is that there will be a 'challenger' party/movement, I am not sure where it will come from, but if you look at current trends, it is the 'right' that are in the ascendancy globally. This isn't wishful thinking on my part as some people claim. I am probably going to vote labour. It is just what I think will happen.
I must say, DA, it's an interesting surprise to me thast you may be voting Labour. I allways assumed that you considered yourself clearly on the Right end of the political spectrum, or maybe particularly on cultural issues.
I'd particularly appreciate hearing why from your perspective, as it may give some insight into just why Labour may end up with such a large majority.
I think that the Labour party are genuinely the best option right now at a practical level. I have always had a high view of Starmer even though I dislike the Labour party. But I would consider voting for a right wing party if they were credible. I think I am just a centrist. I guess my political views are probably quite similar to Elon Musk.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
Would any of the Tory leadership contenders be a better leader of the opposition than Farage?
All of them
Who would you like to see as Tory leader?
That's an interesting question. The honest and obvious answer is nobody that's left. I would have liked any number of those that were culled by BoZo. Rory would have given it a good shot. So I think we need to wait and see who survives, or who arrives.
Hinds maybe. But it’s likely to be one of the crazies.
I have no idea if Ed Davey's campaign will have any impact on their seat total, but I am totally in favour of how few fucks he has to give to convention and trying to ape the others.
Him coming across as more human and in touch will certainly be very attractive for many more Moderate Tories, particularly those in seats where Labour have no chance.
I still think the LDs are very underpriced on seat spreads and on being the opposition.
They have been within touching distance of the opposition, or already there, in many MRP polls for a bit now - and Farage’s return will only help that.
I’m on LD’s ‘most seats without Labour’ at 10.5 and that looks a big price at the moment. Can still be had for around 5 and I think it will come down more.
Outside southern England how many seats do you expect them to win and here in Wales
Survation’s probability model yesterday had the LDs on 43 seats and that was with REFUK on only 11.4%. Meanwhile on BF exchange the LDs are about 1.7 for over 40.5 seats.
Their ground game has been very efficient in by elections and whilst a GE is different I have faith in them rounding up the tactical vote in lots of places.
Couple this with Farage stirring the pot on TV and Davey getting more and more airtime / online time and I think these odds are going to look very good indeed in a few days’ time.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
Another moron speaks! They’re also Irish citizens - a fact cemented by the GFA. Nearly half of them resent being described as British - or were you not aware of that? They won’t vote in an election that requires them to identify as such.
Regardless of their pissed offness as I know them well as my half sister is northern irish they are still uk citizens legally in respect of uk elections.....whether they resent it is a totally different matter to the legal position and they like I are allowed to refuse to vote
Do we know how many seats the Tories still don’t have a candidate for?
And do we know the same for the LDs and Reform?
And MK? Ah, here's the answer:
Mebyon Kernow can confirm that it will not be putting forward candidates for the 2024 General Election. We have taken the conscious decision to focus MK’s resources onto the 2025 local elections, where we expect to make significant progress.
One (at least) wonders, just how many candidates for CUP, LAB, LDM, GRN, REF, SNP, PC, ABC, XYZ, etc. been suborned or otherwise entrapped in the dastardly coils of extreme Mebyon Kerneow (XMK) and it's sinister aspiration to absorb everything from the Tamar to Shepherd's Bush roundabout?
pedantic betting time as I come from cornwall...its not kerneow....its Kernow
Very fair comment. My hand (or few fingers) slipped. And do like that you come from Cornwall.
Tuberville says Putin has only wanted peace all along but the U.S. wants war: “He dudn’t want Ukraine. He dudn’t want Europe. Hell, he’s got enough land of his own. He just wants to make sure he does not have US weapons in Ukraine.” https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1798424125058519109#m
Putin doesn't want to conquer Ukraine or parts of it, despite all the times he has said just that. Right.
Well there's a lot more US weapons in Ukraine now because of Putin.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Indeed.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
Strangely, I'm thinking of cancelling my private healthcare policy because I don't see it as value. It's thousands a year in premium alone plus a heavy tax penalty for a benefit-in-kind, also in the thousands.
I can save it and, if I'm seriously ill, my company has a generous sick pay policy. But, if I need treatment, it's better for me and the economy for me to be treated quickly so I can get back to work and paying taxes as quickly as possible. Whilst I do that it also expands resources and money going into the healthcare sector at the same time.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
Another moron speaks! They’re also Irish citizens - a fact cemented by the GFA. Nearly half of them resent being described as British - or were you not aware of that? They won’t vote in an election that requires them to identify as such.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
Commonwealth citizens living in the UK pay tax to HMRC.
@DougSeal do British people in Dublin have the vote via their British citizenship?
If not, why should Irish people in London, Cardiff or Edinburgh?
Belfast is different.
You really are an idiot. Yes, British people in Ireland do have a vote via their British citizenship for all Parliamentary and local elections*. The ignorance on this board on basic issues is staggering sometimes.
You do realise that Northern Ireland is in the U.K. don’t you?
*the only vote reserved for Irish Citizens is for the ceremonial office of President but we don’t let them vote for our monarch either.
The fact that Northern Ireland is in the UK is neither here nor there, we can and do have special rules for NI thanks to the GFA and I respect that - don't you?
The fact they allow British citizens to vote in their elections is far more relevant. If that's the case, I'm content to have a reciprocal agreement for that to continue, but only for Ireland given we maintain the Common Travel Area with them and that agreement is reciprocal.
However for non-Irish non-reciprocal Commonwealth voters? That anachronism absolutely should be removed, and anyone who has made their life here absolutely should get British (or Irish is an option in NI) citizenship if they want the vote.
Tuberville says Putin has only wanted peace all along but the U.S. wants war: “He dudn’t want Ukraine. He dudn’t want Europe. Hell, he’s got enough land of his own. He just wants to make sure he does not have US weapons in Ukraine.” https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1798424125058519109#m
Putin doesn't want to conquer Ukraine or parts of it, despite all the times he has said just that. Right.
It's really startling for those of us who remember the 80s and Reagan how the Republicans have become the party of Russian apologists. It's an absorbing spectacle.
There's a gaping canyon between not indulging in jinoistic warmongering, and just regurgitating Russian propaganda whilst openly admiring a dictator.
Many many Republicans have leaped over that canyon. And even the relative hawks in the Senate change their view to please Trump on the issue.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
Yep - but I simply don't see them occurring. The reality is a suspect every 'event' in the next 3 years can be pinned on the incompetency of the previous Tory government...
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Indeed.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
Strangely, I'm thinking of cancelling my private healthcare policy because I don't see it as value. It's thousands a year in premium alone plus a heavy tax penalty for a benefit-in-kind, also in the thousands.
I can save it and, if I'm seriously ill, my company has a generous sick pay policy. But, if I need treatment, it's better for me and the economy for me to be treated quickly so I can get back to work and paying taxes as quickly as possible. Whilst I do that it also expands resources and money going into the healthcare sector at the same time.
So private is a win-win.
I considered taking out private health insurance in the aftermath of covid knowing that waiting lists would increase.
Foxy gave the advice that it was more cost effective not to but to pay if and when necessary.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
Tuberville says Putin has only wanted peace all along but the U.S. wants war: “He dudn’t want Ukraine. He dudn’t want Europe. Hell, he’s got enough land of his own. He just wants to make sure he does not have US weapons in Ukraine.” https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1798424125058519109#m
Putin doesn't want to conquer Ukraine or parts of it, despite all the times he has said just that. Right.
It's really startling for those of us who remember the 80s and Reagan how the Republicans have become the party of Russian apologists. It's an absorbing spectacle.
"Absorbing" as in absorbent underwear = full of piss & shit.
Admit it is fascinating. Perhaps because Mad Vlad resembles (in American eyes) a czar more than a commissar?
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
I don't think labour will be coming in at all with the good wishes of the british public, the impression I get from people is we don't like or trust starmer or labour, we just distrust the tories and sunak more. That is hardly good wishes
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
erm people in NI are already uk citizens
@DougSeal wants to pretend the Good Friday Agreement doesn't actually exist and that we need to set UK-wide laws to keep Irish republicans in Belfast happy, rather than actually respect the GFA and treat NI as a special case.
What an ignorant comment that ignores the East-West strand in the GFA. You’ve never read the GFA in your life. I have. Including the bit that commits the U.K. to the ECHR, You, on the other hand, think you know what’s in it. Your ignorance is typical I was in Belfast when it was signed. You, on the other hand, have no clue about it. I have already established your ignorance about Ireland. Don’t you dare try to lecture me you poltroon.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
Commonwealth citizens living in the UK pay tax to HMRC.
Yes, I understood your point but so what?
Anyone working here pays tax to HMRC. Anyone working in the US pays tax to the IRS. A work permit doesn't come with voting rights.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
And what about people who choose to have dual nationality?
Tuberville says Putin has only wanted peace all along but the U.S. wants war: “He dudn’t want Ukraine. He dudn’t want Europe. Hell, he’s got enough land of his own. He just wants to make sure he does not have US weapons in Ukraine.” https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1798424125058519109#m
Putin doesn't want to conquer Ukraine or parts of it, despite all the times he has said just that. Right.
Tuberville is one of the most stupid GOPers in Congress. Though there’s plenty of competition for that title.
One of the idiots whom the House Speaker just nominate for the Intelligence Committee runs him very close.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
And what about people who choose to have dual nationality?
If one of the dual is ours and they live here, they should have the vote.
The fact they also have another one is irrelevant.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
Commonwealth citizens living in the UK pay tax to HMRC.
Yes, I understood your point but so what?
Anyone working here pays tax to HMRC. Anyone working in the US pays tax to the IRS. A work permit doesn't come with voting rights.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Then she also ought to have been entitled to British citizenship.
If anyone chooses not to take it, knowing its required to vote, then that's their choice. Just as if I were to work 25 years in France but not take French citizenship.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
Yep - but I simply don't see them occurring. The reality is a suspect every 'event' in the next 3 years can be pinned on the incompetency of the previous Tory government...
well maybe but nobody foresaw covid. And as we can see Sunak throwing money at the elctorate earned him no credit. Labour have no particular competence edge - they use the same civil servants, their politicians went to the same universities and the sign up to they same big government policies.
Starmer has planted no seeds on what he is about so he is more likely to disappoint a lot of people fast, being all things to all men doesnt work.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Indeed.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
Strangely, I'm thinking of cancelling my private healthcare policy because I don't see it as value. It's thousands a year in premium alone plus a heavy tax penalty for a benefit-in-kind, also in the thousands.
I can save it and, if I'm seriously ill, my company has a generous sick pay policy. But, if I need treatment, it's better for me and the economy for me to be treated quickly so I can get back to work and paying taxes as quickly as possible. Whilst I do that it also expands resources and money going into the healthcare sector at the same time.
So private is a win-win.
And when you retire, you should wait for a longer time because you’re not paying as much tax. Makes sense.
Presumably babies and children should wait the longest as they pay no tax at all.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
You automatically became a British citizen on 21 May 2002 if your British overseas territories citizenship was gained by connection with a qualifying territory.
If you were born in a qualifying territory on or after 21 May 2002, you also automatically became a British citizen if your parent was either:
a British or British overseas territories citizen settled in that territory
The qualifying territories are:
Anguilla Bermuda British Antarctic Territory British Indian Ocean Territory British Virgin Islands Cayman Islands Falkland Islands Gibraltar Montserrat Pitcairn Islands Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands Turks and Caicos Islands
You’ll also be a British citizen if you were born outside the UK or in a British overseas territory to a parent who is a British citizen in their own right.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
@DougSeal do British people in Dublin have the vote via their British citizenship?
If not, why should Irish people in London, Cardiff or Edinburgh?
Belfast is different.
You really are an idiot. Yes, British people in Ireland do have a vote via their British citizenship for all Parliamentary and local elections*. The ignorance on this board on basic issues is staggering sometimes.
You do realise that Northern Ireland is in the U.K. don’t you?
*the only vote reserved for Irish Citizens is for the ceremonial office of President but we don’t let them vote for our monarch either.
British citizens in Ireland also do not have a vote on Constitutional referendums, or in European elections (due to not having European citizenship), but that all makes sense because Britain doesn't have a constitution and constitutional referendums, nor votes on the head of state, so it's all reciprocal.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
And what about people who choose to have dual nationality?
Doesn't matter as long as one of those nationalties is British.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
Northern Ireland is always the exception to everything. And those who comtinualy bring it up (looking at you Doug) as a block to change when it is an exception are simply devoid of any other meaningful arguments.
Anyway we could solve that particular issue by reunifying the island of Ireland. Its perfectly valid aspiration and one I share.
Richard, you are an intelligent man, but you occasionally decend to ad hominem utter bullshit like me “keep bringing it up” in re Ireland. Barty proposed disenfranchising Irish citizens, I didn’t,. And, if I did, so what? A lot of Brit Nats would rather sweep it’s messy contradictions under the table. The imperial mindset of “we” (presumably the U.K.) could solve that issue by reunifying Ireland, which implies no consultation with either of the jurisdictions there, speaks volumes.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
Labour team look competent to me.
This has not been the case since at least your Mr Johnson and probably since Mrs May who was a fence-sitter. The Conservatives have had three disaster PMs in a row, four if you include Cameron who miscalculated over Brexit and then ran for his life.
It is an irony that the only vaguely competent prime minister since 2015 is Sunak. It is very vague though because he has made many mistakes.
I feel very sorry for those old old tories who want to whittle down their final years waiting for Labour to fail. They will have to wait such a long time they will probably be in the ground long before the tory party have come back to their senses to appeal to the British again. This is an earthquake election. A seismic change.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
I have been considering the environmental impact of flying. I need to fly a lot between the UK and Finland, maybe 18 times a year, return. Getting the train is not an option due to timings. My problem is that because of the route, connecting flights are much cheaper and more convenient but worse in terms of carbon emissions - around 70% more for a connecting flight than a direct flight. They can be offset in theory but it is going to be many decades before aviation can be decarbonised. I am very sceptical about all the airlines and their claims about sustainability (Finnair for example fly half empty planes at inflated fares and make significant profits), all the legacy carriers rely on selling connecting flights which emit more carbon than the low cost carriers who just fill planes to the max and fly from A to B - although in doing so, they set fares so low that they actually create a demand for flying that didn't exist before.
I just wondered what other people think about this issue? I don't think that you can ignore the problem.
You need Rail Baltica to be built, including the Tallinn to Helsinki tunnel.
Then you should be able to do it from London with about 3 trains in about 24-26 hours: London-Brussels, Brussels-Berlin and then the proposed night sleeper from there to Tallinn, and through the tunnel if it's done.
But, you'll probably need to wait at least 8-10 years and hope the Russians don't invade and seize the Suwałki Gap in the meantime.
I wasn't aware of this emerging option so thanks. I've done the overland trip several times via stockholm and through Germany, eventually going on to the Eurostar; and always regret it. Eurostar is a mess, loads of queuing in Brussels. Deutsch Bahn are massively unreliable, lots of delays, overcrowded trains and similar in Denmark. Sweden is nice to travel by train though. The cost is also prohibitively high at present as well as the time - 3 days. A flight to Finland by contrast is 3 hours max and costs as little as £30.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
My uncle has lived in Australia for 50+ years without the vote. He arrived at a time when a white British person could easily have been a citizen very quickly but he apparently takes the view that the only thing he lacks with permanent residency is the vote, and he doesn't care about that.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
Commonwealth citizens living in the UK pay tax to HMRC.
So do French, German and US citizens. They don't get the vote so why should Jamaicans or Indians?
I've been looking at comments in the right wing press.
Telegraph - very pro Reform - have been going that way for a while (I read it) Express - pro Reform Sun - Doesn't show comments but a voodoo poll has 70% Reform, 24% Con, 4% Lab Mail - Some Reform but still some Con comments too (e.g. saying Rishi did well against Starmer)
I have to see that crossover is a distinct possibility.
The thing I come back to is that in 2019 there was a clear ideological divide and 2 main reasons for those on the right to vote Con 1) Get Brexit done 2) Stop Corbyn.
Now I can't think of any positive reasons to vote Con at all. And stop Lab as a negative reason is made irrelevant by the current polls.
I guess it is the same for those on the left like BJO - Lab isn't offering any positive reasons to vote for them (apart from we're not the Tories).
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
Labour team look competent to me.
This has not been the case since at least your Mr Johnson and probably since Mrs May who was a fence-sitter. The Conservatives have had three disaster PMs in a row, four if you include Cameron who miscalculated over Brexit and then ran for his life.
It is an irony that the only vaguely competent prime minister since 2015 is Sunak. It is very vague though because he has made many mistakes.
I feel very sorry for those old old tories who want to whittle down their final years waiting for Labour to fail. They will have to wait such a long time they will probably be in the ground long before the tory party have come back to their senses to appeal to the British again. This is an earthquake election. A seismic change.
I didnt vote for Johnson. Your first assumption goes tits up.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Indeed.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
Strangely, I'm thinking of cancelling my private healthcare policy because I don't see it as value. It's thousands a year in premium alone plus a heavy tax penalty for a benefit-in-kind, also in the thousands.
I can save it and, if I'm seriously ill, my company has a generous sick pay policy. But, if I need treatment, it's better for me and the economy for me to be treated quickly so I can get back to work and paying taxes as quickly as possible. Whilst I do that it also expands resources and money going into the healthcare sector at the same time.
So private is a win-win.
And when you retire, you should wait for a longer time because you’re not paying as much tax. Makes sense.
Presumably babies and children should wait the longest as they pay no tax at all.
I'm happy for Commonwealth citizens to continue to have the vote, but it's easy to argue against it and if you were setting up arrangements from scratch it doesn't seem likely it would be the case.
I've been looking at comments in the right wing press.
Telegraph - very pro Reform - have been going that way for a while (I read it) Express - pro Reform Sun - Doesn't show comments but a voodoo poll has 70% Reform, 24% Con, 4% Lab Mail - Some Reform but still some Con comments too (e.g. saying Rishi did well against Starmer)
I have to see that crossover is a distinct possibility.
The thing I come back to is that in 2019 there was a clear ideological divide and 2 main reasons for those on the right to vote Con 1) Get Brexit done 2) Stop Corbyn.
Now I can't think of any positive reasons to vote Con at all. And stop Lab as a negative reason is made irrelevant by the current polls.
I guess it is the same for those on the left like BJO - Lab isn't offering any positive reasons to vote for them (apart from we're not the Tories).
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
Labour team look competent to me.
This has not been the case since at least your Mr Johnson and probably since Mrs May who was a fence-sitter. The Conservatives have had three disaster PMs in a row, four if you include Cameron who miscalculated over Brexit and then ran for his life.
It is an irony that the only vaguely competent prime minister since 2015 is Sunak. It is very vague though because he has made many mistakes.
I feel very sorry for those old old tories who want to whittle down their final years waiting for Labour to fail. They will have to wait such a long time they will probably be in the ground long before the tory party have come back to their senses to appeal to the British again. This is an earthquake election. A seismic change.
We just had an earthquake election in the Netherlands.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
Indeed.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
Strangely, I'm thinking of cancelling my private healthcare policy because I don't see it as value. It's thousands a year in premium alone plus a heavy tax penalty for a benefit-in-kind, also in the thousands.
I can save it and, if I'm seriously ill, my company has a generous sick pay policy. But, if I need treatment, it's better for me and the economy for me to be treated quickly so I can get back to work and paying taxes as quickly as possible. Whilst I do that it also expands resources and money going into the healthcare sector at the same time.
So private is a win-win.
I considered taking out private health insurance in the aftermath of covid knowing that waiting lists would increase.
Foxy gave the advice that it was more cost effective not to but to pay if and when necessary.
So, the Tories did manage to get everybody talking about tax.
Every news outlet has done a forensic analysis of how big a lie it was.
Awesome work, lads. Trebles all round...
Going to be a bit of a problem for them when Labour does put up taxes isn't it.
"We have seen the Government accounts and Mary, mother Jesus they are infinitely worse than we thought possible. We don't want to, but we have to raise taxes. We are calling them Tory taxe rises".
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
Northern Ireland is always the exception to everything. And those who comtinualy bring it up (looking at you Doug) as a block to change when it is an exception are simply devoid of any other meaningful arguments.
Anyway we could solve that particular issue by reunifying the island of Ireland. Its perfectly valid aspiration and one I share.
Richard, you are an intelligent man, but you occasionally decend to ad hominem utter bullshit like me “keep bringing it up” in re Ireland. Barty proposed disenfranchising Irish citizens, I didn’t,. And, if I did, so what? A lot of Brit Nats would rather sweep it’s messy contradictions under the table. The imperial mindset of “we” (presumably the U.K.) could solve that issue by reunifying Ireland, which implies no consultation with either of the jurisdictions there, speaks volumes.
It wasn't me that proposed it, it was @williamglenn actually, but I agreed with him as did others like @Richard_Tyndall , so its funny that I'm the one you're hating.
I wouldn't disenfranchise Irish voters in Northern Ireland under any circumstances and as long as English voters in Ireland can vote in their elections I have no problem with a reciprocal agreement for Irish electors in our elections to vote. That's reasonable and reciprocal.
The Commonwealth rule is not.
An Australian living in the UK can vote in British elections. A Brit living in Australia has not been allowed to register to vote there since 1984.
Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.
There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.
He's not want they wanted. Too centrist perhaps, where people centre-right with an empasis on the right is the best position - enough to get the juices flowing for those on the right, without scaring centrists.
I'm happy for Commonwealth citizens to continue to have the vote, but it's easy to argue against it and if you were setting up arrangements from scratch it doesn't seem likely it would be the case.
How come Irish citizens can vote in UK general elections but we can't vote in theirs.
The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.
Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
Time for a new electorate, eh?
The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.
It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.
The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.
I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.
Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
You are wishing for something rather than using any kind of evidential analysis of its likelihood.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
Ever heard of "events" ?
Labour team look competent to me.
This has not been the case since at least your Mr Johnson and probably since Mrs May who was a fence-sitter. The Conservatives have had three disaster PMs in a row, four if you include Cameron who miscalculated over Brexit and then ran for his life.
It is an irony that the only vaguely competent prime minister since 2015 is Sunak. It is very vague though because he has made many mistakes.
I feel very sorry for those old old tories who want to whittle down their final years waiting for Labour to fail. They will have to wait such a long time they will probably be in the ground long before the tory party have come back to their senses to appeal to the British again. This is an earthquake election. A seismic change.
You don't need to feel sorry for me speaking as one of the old old Tories whitling down their final year's looking for Labour to fail not least because I have far more important and precious reasons to be grateful for each and every day, when I was not expecting even to see the 4th July, and whilst I contribute on here I do have a life outside politics
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
Northern Ireland is always the exception to everything. And those who comtinualy bring it up (looking at you Doug) as a block to change when it is an exception are simply devoid of any other meaningful arguments.
Anyway we could solve that particular issue by reunifying the island of Ireland. Its perfectly valid aspiration and one I share.
Richard, you are an intelligent man, but you occasionally decend to ad hominem utter bullshit like me “keep bringing it up” in re Ireland. Barty proposed disenfranchising Irish citizens, I didn’t,. And, if I did, so what? A lot of Brit Nats would rather sweep it’s messy contradictions under the table. The imperial mindset of “we” (presumably the U.K.) could solve that issue by reunifying Ireland, which implies no consultation with either of the jurisdictions there, speaks volumes.
I have never said we should impose it, simply that we should not oppose it. As I said it is an aspiration and one I stromngly share.
As an aside I could choose to have Irish citizenship but do not do so. I am content to align myself with the country of my birth and try to support/improve that.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
I've been looking at comments in the right wing press.
Telegraph - very pro Reform - have been going that way for a while (I read it) Express - pro Reform Sun - Doesn't show comments but a voodoo poll has 70% Reform, 24% Con, 4% Lab Mail - Some Reform but still some Con comments too (e.g. saying Rishi did well against Starmer)
I have to see that crossover is a distinct possibility.
The thing I come back to is that in 2019 there was a clear ideological divide and 2 main reasons for those on the right to vote Con 1) Get Brexit done 2) Stop Corbyn.
Now I can't think of any positive reasons to vote Con at all. And stop Lab as a negative reason is made irrelevant by the current polls.
I guess it is the same for those on the left like BJO - Lab isn't offering any positive reasons to vote for them (apart from we're not the Tories).
It's hardly an excellent piece - it's peppered with the language of the 1980s - who uses the term "Wets" these days? Heath is an unreconstructed Thatcherite - the Blessed Margaret remains for him the greatest leader this country ever had and the modern Conservatives are poor imitations.
It's historically debatable and doesn't make much sense.
Heath has always struggled on politics - on economics he's much more interesting.
So, the Tories did manage to get everybody talking about tax.
Every news outlet has done a forensic analysis of how big a lie it was.
Awesome work, lads. Trebles all round...
Going to be a bit of a problem for them when Labour does put up taxes isn't it.
"We have seen the Government accounts and Mary, mother Jesus they are infinitely worse than we thought possible. We don't want to, but we have to raise taxes. We are calling them Tory taxe rises".
Governments receive blame much quicker than thanks.
As soon as people are impacted they'll blame whoever is in charge.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
You automatically became a British citizen on 21 May 2002 if your British overseas territories citizenship was gained by connection with a qualifying territory.
If you were born in a qualifying territory on or after 21 May 2002, you also automatically became a British citizen if your parent was either:
a British or British overseas territories citizen settled in that territory
The qualifying territories are:
Anguilla Bermuda British Antarctic Territory British Indian Ocean Territory British Virgin Islands Cayman Islands Falkland Islands Gibraltar Montserrat Pitcairn Islands Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands Turks and Caicos Islands
You’ll also be a British citizen if you were born outside the UK or in a British overseas territory to a parent who is a British citizen in their own right.
Anyone born in South Georgia?
One of the most remote and beautiful places on the planet with the attraction of visiting Shackleton's grave
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
Removing the vote from those who aren't British citizens, when we can't vote in their elections if we live there, is not drivel its entirely reasonable.
Australia chose 40 years ago to remove the ability for Brits living there to register to vote. Now if you want the vote, you need citizenship.
Why shouldn't we reciprocate?
Happy to make an exception for Ireland, for as long as and because they make an exception for us, not because of Belfast.
I'm happy for Commonwealth citizens to continue to have the vote, but it's easy to argue against it and if you were setting up arrangements from scratch it doesn't seem likely it would be the case.
How come Irish citizens can vote in UK general elections but we can't vote in theirs.
Comments on here and Wikipedia says we can. Which is more than they let EU citizens do.
I wonder if Sunak is going try something loopy, like matching Farage's "zero immigration" rhetoric.
This would lead to a 1940s Albania-type scenario within a couple of years, economically, ofcourse, so they wouldn't really mean it, but it would be the kind of thing to shift the dial even further to the right, in the sort of way Hunt may perhaps be concerned about.
I'm happy for Commonwealth citizens to continue to have the vote, but it's easy to argue against it and if you were setting up arrangements from scratch it doesn't seem likely it would be the case.
How come Irish citizens can vote in UK general elections but we can't vote in theirs.
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
You don’t seem bothered about all the people working here at the moment who don’t have the right to vote in the GE. Do you want to extent the franchise too non-Commonwealth citizens too?
I'm happy for Commonwealth citizens to continue to have the vote, but it's easy to argue against it and if you were setting up arrangements from scratch it doesn't seem likely it would be the case.
How come Irish citizens can vote in UK general elections but we can't vote in theirs.
Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:
Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy. No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.
In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.
I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
I wonder if Sunak is going try something loopy, like matching Farage's "zero immigration" rhetoric.
This would lead to a 1940s Albania scenario, economically ,ofcourse, so they wouldn't really mean it. It would shift the dial on this further to the right, though.
Hes going to go full tonto, expect some crazy shit. EHRC referendum, zero net immigration pledge, IHT scrapped minimum
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
So as a UK citizen working occasionally in France or Norway and paying taxes there I should be allowed to vote in their national elections? It's an interesting concept but not one I think will catch on.
My mum worked 25 years for Havering Council (and before that Redbridge) diligently paying her taxes to HMRC (and still to this day paying tax on her pension),
Immaterial. If she is not willing to take UK citizenship then she should not be voting in national elections.
You don’t seem bothered about all the people working here at the moment who don’t have the right to vote in the GE. Do you want to extent the franchise too non-Commonwealth citizens too?
Indeed I do. If the UK "needs" immigrants (If!), then they should all get to vote.
I've been looking at comments in the right wing press.
Telegraph - very pro Reform - have been going that way for a while (I read it) Express - pro Reform Sun - Doesn't show comments but a voodoo poll has 70% Reform, 24% Con, 4% Lab Mail - Some Reform but still some Con comments too (e.g. saying Rishi did well against Starmer)
I have to see that crossover is a distinct possibility.
The thing I come back to is that in 2019 there was a clear ideological divide and 2 main reasons for those on the right to vote Con 1) Get Brexit done 2) Stop Corbyn.
Now I can't think of any positive reasons to vote Con at all. And stop Lab as a negative reason is made irrelevant by the current polls.
I guess it is the same for those on the left like BJO - Lab isn't offering any positive reasons to vote for them (apart from we're not the Tories).
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
No taxation without representation!
You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
Commonwealth citizens living in the UK pay tax to HMRC.
So do French, German and US citizens. They don't get the vote so why should Jamaicans or Indians?
Part of the British Burden (one name for it) for Empire over Palm and Pine . . . ditto Sand and Swamp and . . .
UK election law also used to distinguish between pot-wallopers and wallop-potters. Or something like that.
Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.
There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.
Jeremy Hunt is another rich pathetic spineless centrist public school rentier dork. He’d be like Sunak without the agreeable common touch and interestingly metrosexual clothing
He’d be like Cameron without all the sound self assessment and measured humility. Boris without the gravitas and probity. The Tories are doomed beyond doomed if they keep plugging away at this centrist shit that no one wants
Europe shows the future. It will be fought between left and populist right. Britain will get a successful populist right party in the end, it’s up to the Tories whether it is them or a party that replaces them
Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .
He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.
He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .
We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
We will run out of things to leave at some point.
We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.
I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
And what about people who choose to have dual nationality?
If one of the dual is ours and they live here, they should have the vote.
The fact they also have another one is irrelevant.
IIRC, the legal fiction behind multiple nationality is that when you are in a country which you are a citizen of, all other citizenships are considered not to exist.
When I had dual US/UK, it was explained that this went to the point that my US passport wasn’t a valid document in the U.K. and the reverses. In the U.K. I was considered solely a U.K. citizen by the U.K. government. When in the US, solely a US citizen by the US government.
So, the Tories did manage to get everybody talking about tax.
Every news outlet has done a forensic analysis of how big a lie it was.
Awesome work, lads. Trebles all round...
People misremember how 2016 net/gross £350M a week trick actually played out. Bus was going round for weeks before any furore began. A great many people voted on the basis it was actually true, anda huge sun of money in the scheme of things. Some people actually took years to realise the truth behind it.
But yesterday’s 2K lie had no time at all to do its business, before it changed today into a different understanding in the publics mind. In less than 24hrs this ploy collapsed and has became universally known as dubious claim. It’s already in the minds of those fleeting observer of politics – in other words the vast majority of people – who may only hear about the story in the loosest terms, as the row about another Tory lie. Even the Clangers have already heard its dubious from the tin chicken, who by some miracle can get Chris Masons podcast in her left ear.
All the news today about it being a lie, is already far more powerful than anything the Tories can now do to convince it isn’t. It’s now the very opposite of the 2016 bus. What it is advertising when people see it now is same old Tories always lying.
It’s going to have a negative impact on the Conservative campaign unless they can back away from it.
Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.
There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.
Jeremy Hunt is another rich pathetic spineless centrist public school rentier dork. He’d be like Sunak without the agreeable common touch and interestingly metrosexual clothing
He’d be like Cameron without all the sound self assessment and measured humility. Boris without the gravitas and probity. The Tories are doomed beyond doomed if they keep plugging away at this centrist shit that no one wants
Europe shows the future. It will be fought between left and populist right. Britain will get a successful populist right party in the end, it’s up to the Tories whether it is them or a party that replaces them
Might be the populist right in Opposition if that Tory poll dive continues.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/05/rattled-labour-takes-frantic-swing-at-sunaks-tax-rise-claim
Mebyon Kernow can confirm that it will not be putting forward candidates for the 2024 General Election. We have taken the conscious decision to focus MK’s resources onto the 2025 local elections, where we expect to make significant progress.
https://x.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=/MebyonKernow
SSI - well, that's what they WANT us to believe.
One (at least) wonders, just how many candidates for CUP, LAB, LDM, GRN, REF, SNP, PC, ABC, XYZ, etc. been suborned or otherwise entrapped in the dastardly coils of extreme Mebyon Kerneow (XMK) and it's sinister aspiration to absorb everything from the Tamar to Shepherd's Bush roundabout?
Ive had an Irish passport for over 25 years.
Private schooling is very much a choice.
Private healthcare could be more of a necessity.
On the other han d - some of us have lifetimes invested in their parties, and can't bear to lose that.
Their ground game has been very efficient in by elections and whilst a GE is different I have faith in them rounding up the tactical vote in lots of places.
Couple this with Farage stirring the pot on TV and Davey getting more and more airtime / online time and I think these odds are going to look very good indeed in a few days’ time.
I can save it and, if I'm seriously ill, my company has a generous sick pay policy. But, if I need treatment, it's better for me and the economy for me to be treated quickly so I can get back to work and paying taxes as quickly as possible. Whilst I do that it also expands resources and money going into the healthcare sector at the same time.
So private is a win-win.
The Labour Party coming to power will do so with the good wishes of the British public after so much which has gone wrong.
As it has been written by other people they will perform with competency. There will be no unravels. With the kind of majority now in forecast they will win two elections minimum and may be they will win three or four or even five elections in a row.
Your Conservative Party need to ask themselves what kind of a party we should be looking like between 2035 and 2040 because they will no longer have a prayer of winning before then.
https://x.com/devanaukraine/status/1797375924444275198?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
The fact they allow British citizens to vote in their elections is far more relevant. If that's the case, I'm content to have a reciprocal agreement for that to continue, but only for Ireland given we maintain the Common Travel Area with them and that agreement is reciprocal.
However for non-Irish non-reciprocal Commonwealth voters? That anachronism absolutely should be removed, and anyone who has made their life here absolutely should get British (or Irish is an option in NI) citizenship if they want the vote.
Many many Republicans have leaped over that canyon. And even the relative hawks in the Senate change their view to please Trump on the issue.
Foxy gave the advice that it was more cost effective not to but to pay if and when necessary.
So I'm currently three years of fees better off.
Admit it is fascinating. Perhaps because Mad Vlad resembles (in American eyes) a czar more than a commissar?
Anyone working here pays tax to HMRC. Anyone working in the US pays tax to the IRS. A work permit doesn't come with voting rights.
Though there’s plenty of competition for that title.
One of the idiots whom the House Speaker just nominate for the Intelligence Committee runs him very close.
The fact they also have another one is irrelevant.
If anyone chooses not to take it, knowing its required to vote, then that's their choice. Just as if I were to work 25 years in France but not take French citizenship.
Labour have no particular competence edge - they use the same civil servants, their politicians went to the same universities and the sign up to they same big government policies.
Starmer has planted no seeds on what he is about so he is more likely to disappoint a lot of people fast, being all things to all men doesnt work.
Presumably babies and children should wait the longest as they pay no tax at all.
Steve.
If you were born in a qualifying territory on or after 21 May 2002, you also automatically became a British citizen if your parent was either:
a British or British overseas territories citizen
settled in that territory
The qualifying territories are:
Anguilla
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar
Montserrat
Pitcairn Islands
Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands
Turks and Caicos Islands
You’ll also be a British citizen if you were born outside the UK or in a British overseas territory to a parent who is a British citizen in their own right.
Anyone born in South Georgia?
This has not been the case since at least your Mr Johnson and probably since Mrs May who was a fence-sitter. The Conservatives have had three disaster PMs in a row, four if you include Cameron who miscalculated over Brexit and then ran for his life.
It is an irony that the only vaguely competent prime minister since 2015 is Sunak. It is very vague though because he has made many mistakes.
I feel very sorry for those old old tories who want to whittle down their final years waiting for Labour to fail. They will have to wait such a long time they will probably be in the ground long before the tory party have come back to their senses to appeal to the British again. This is an earthquake election. A seismic change.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/05/jeremy-hunt-warns-against-tory-lurch-to-right-reform-farage
Oh you meant as Tory leader. Why would he do that?
Definitely feel Tory wipeout is starting to attain a 'Wait - are Leicester City actually going to WIN the Premiership' quality
Telegraph - very pro Reform - have been going that way for a while (I read it)
Express - pro Reform
Sun - Doesn't show comments but a voodoo poll has 70% Reform, 24% Con, 4% Lab
Mail - Some Reform but still some Con comments too (e.g. saying Rishi did well against Starmer)
I have to see that crossover is a distinct possibility.
The thing I come back to is that in 2019 there was a clear ideological divide and 2 main reasons for those on the right to vote Con 1) Get Brexit done 2) Stop Corbyn.
Now I can't think of any positive reasons to vote Con at all. And stop Lab as a negative reason is made irrelevant by the current polls.
I guess it is the same for those on the left like BJO - Lab isn't offering any positive reasons to vote for them (apart from we're not the Tories).
Here is an excellent article from Alistair Heath:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/05/tory-left-driving-party-to-annihilation-at-farage-hands/
I dont need to bother with the rest.
I wouldn't disenfranchise Irish voters in Northern Ireland under any circumstances and as long as English voters in Ireland can vote in their elections I have no problem with a reciprocal agreement for Irish electors in our elections to vote. That's reasonable and reciprocal.
The Commonwealth rule is not.
An Australian living in the UK can vote in British elections.
A Brit living in Australia has not been allowed to register to vote there since 1984.
That anachronism should be abolished.
As an aside I could choose to have Irish citizenship but do not do so. I am content to align myself with the country of my birth and try to support/improve that.
It's historically debatable and doesn't make much sense.
Heath has always struggled on politics - on economics he's much more interesting.
As soon as people are impacted they'll blame whoever is in charge.
Irrespective of who is at fault.
Australia chose 40 years ago to remove the ability for Brits living there to register to vote. Now if you want the vote, you need citizenship.
Why shouldn't we reciprocate?
Happy to make an exception for Ireland, for as long as and because they make an exception for us, not because of Belfast.
This would lead to a 1940s Albania-type scenario within a couple of years, economically, ofcourse, so they wouldn't really mean it, but it would be the kind of thing to shift the dial even further to the right, in the sort of way Hunt may perhaps be concerned about.
"British citizens who live in Ireland can vote in:
General elections
Local elections"
Not based on the size of their bank balance.
Socialism, Comrade.
FEWER !!!
UK election law also used to distinguish between pot-wallopers and wallop-potters. Or something like that.
He’d be like Cameron without all the sound self assessment and measured humility. Boris without the gravitas and probity. The Tories are doomed beyond doomed if they keep plugging away at this centrist shit that no one wants
Europe shows the future. It will be fought between left and populist right. Britain will get a successful populist right party in the end, it’s up to the Tories whether it is them or a party that replaces them
When I had dual US/UK, it was explained that this went to the point that my US passport wasn’t a valid document in the U.K. and the reverses. In the U.K. I was considered solely a U.K. citizen by the U.K. government. When in the US, solely a US citizen by the US government.
But yesterday’s 2K lie had no time at all to do its business, before it changed today into a different understanding in the publics mind. In less than 24hrs this ploy collapsed and has became universally known as dubious claim. It’s already in the minds of those fleeting observer of politics – in other words the vast majority of people – who may only hear about the story in the loosest terms, as the row about another Tory lie. Even the Clangers have already heard its dubious from the tin chicken, who by some miracle can get Chris Masons podcast in her left ear.
Will Sunak’s dubious tax claim stick in voters’ minds?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq55e9dz79lo
All the news today about it being a lie, is already far more powerful than anything the Tories can now do to convince it isn’t. It’s now the very opposite of the 2016 bus. What it is advertising when people see it now is same old Tories always lying.
It’s going to have a negative impact on the Conservative campaign unless they can back away from it.