Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Parties – politicalbetting.com

13468921

Comments

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,569

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    "Yes of course, but I shouldn't have to. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it, though I hope never to have to need to. Vote for me, and I'll build an NHS that makes private heathcare obsolete."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,541
    "Lee Anderson - Reform candidate
    @LeeAndersonMP_

    It's Happening 🇬🇧

    The common sense invasion is sweeping the nation thanks to the Peoples Army
    @reformparty_uk

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-pulls-to-within-two-points-of-tories-in-latest-yougov-poll-13148396"

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1798388258780684297
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Doesn't matter who gets in taxes are going to rise....my suspicion in 4 years basic rate 23%, higher rate 45% and highest rate 50%.

    Tax take will be a lot bigger, public services will be better funded but somehow still manage to be even shitter
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Lol.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012
    edited June 5

    Car crash on Sky for the Tory Tax Lie. It does seem that it’s unravelled. But, the D-Day coverage has seemingly swamped the whole row anyway.

    The lie is that taxes aren't going to increase.

    And all the parties are making it.
    In the report on ITV just now they have called out all parties for failing to address the IFS statement of 40 billion of tax shortfalls
    This one?

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-04/labour-and-tories-clash-over-2000-tax-claim-so-who-is-right

    You are actually using that analysis to defend the lie 🤷‍♀️

    Seriously 🤷‍♀️

    I mean, you watched that and came to the conclusion “there you are, Sunak hasn’t been caught out telling one of the biggest general election whoppers of all time.”
    No you have it wrong

    Sky today also called out Labour for their dodgy dossier ( words used) of Labour's claim about the conservative NI proposals with Ed Conway slide charts demonstrating the dodgy workings and then ITV ended their report by saying nobody is addressing the 40 billion the independent IFS have declared a tax shortfall
    You said “ No you have it wrong” and then you talked about something completely different, not Sunak’s big lie 🙂

    You know yesterday when Starmer was in a spot, and kept saying “but Truss”, and you know how desperate it sounded? That’s what you’ve just done.

    So which one of these isn’t already exposed and universally understood as lying this evening?

    it was treasury work, not Tory SPAD work
    They came to the black hole listing out statements made by Labour politicians, that could or may not be policy, and put exaggerated sums against each one, obviously made up and without substance or credibility as cost of real policy commitments?
    The 2K figure came from a tax calculation only on working families, not how tax system actually works
    Sunak said it’s every year, for a cost spread over 4 years

    🙂
    I posted a link on the story especially for you

    Maybe you should read it

    https://x.com/EdConwaySky/status/1798343959607193764?t=2neA7Co8dAVmuLyH23Y3KQ&s=19
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Taxes will continue to go up, whoever takes over, and Labour will undoubtedly press the spending cuts button less hard.

    I think what that shows is that people don't start from policy detail and work from there to a voting decision, so much as start from vibes and then seek to rationalise those vibes.

    Me included, before anyone asks.

    Which is why explaining = losing and why Rishi is in so much trouble.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Ghedebrav said:

    carnforth said:

    If a tory leader's mother had named him Winston, mockery would abound. but Keir is unremarked upon.

    Most people have no idea who Keir Hardy is.

    Fun* fact - my parents also named me after a once-famous trade union activist.


    *OK, not actually fun.
    I certainly have no idea who Keir Hardy is. Keir Hardie, on the other hand…

    (It’s not called Pedantic Betting without due cause)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson - Reform candidate
    @LeeAndersonMP_

    It's Happening 🇬🇧

    The common sense invasion is sweeping the nation thanks to the Peoples Army
    @reformparty_uk

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-pulls-to-within-two-points-of-tories-in-latest-yougov-poll-13148396"

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1798388258780684297

    Common sense invasion? Are they coming in small boats?
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    Oops - sorry about my cock-up on the YouGov poll. I had not noticed the methodology change. On the old methods it would have been - Lab 45 (-1), Con 18 (-3), Ref 18 (+3), LD 8, Green 6

    So that would show all the Reform advance coming from the Cons.

    MoonRabbit will be pleased by the methodology change - I suspect bringing it rather more in line with the MRP headline figures.

    On the new methods the change would be - Lab 40 (-4), C 19 (-2), Ref 17 (+3), LD 10 (-1), Green 7 (+1)

    Does that suggest it is Don't knows that were flirting with Lab moving to Ref alongside the Con voters defecting?

    Nigel should be spitting feathers at a change that robbed him of the chance to say he had caught up with the Cons.

    All before the 'debate' and its consequent unravelling but we shall see.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    So SKS could get less votes than JC but many more seats.

    Could SKS fans and JC fans both have to explain this to each other?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,548
    carnforth said:

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    "Yes of course, but I shouldn't have to. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it, though I hope never to have to need to. Vote for me, and I'll build an NHS that makes private heathcare obsolete."
    "without raising taxes."

    Aye, right.

    Utter bollocks.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    carnforth said:

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    "Yes of course, but I shouldn't have to. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it, though I hope never to have to need to. Vote for me, and I'll build an NHS that makes private heathcare obsolete."
    Yes, fine, but my point was that the NHS still deals with all the really urgent stuff. I think it was you who said earlier "what if his children were seriously ill?" Well, the NHS would be there for them, even in its current poor state.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    So SKS could get less votes than JC but many more seats.

    Could SKS fans and JC fans both have to explain this to each other?

    or sks and jc could do a dual onlyfans account?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    The public appear to be giving the answer that suits their mood.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,569

    carnforth said:

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    "Yes of course, but I shouldn't have to. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it, though I hope never to have to need to. Vote for me, and I'll build an NHS that makes private heathcare obsolete."
    "without raising taxes."

    Aye, right.

    Utter bollocks.
    Oh, I wasn't suggesting it would be true. Just that he should say it...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Leon said:

    “Another day, another explosion in Odesa... Heard a deep boom that seemed to come from the seaside.”

    https://x.com/zivoadam/status/1798354714117226681?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    UKRAINE – Explosion 💥 reported in Odesa, Zatoka area —possibly air defense interception ongoing after Russian assault.

    #Ukraine #Odesa #Zatoka #June5

    https://x.com/afgermania/status/1798356668939673902?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Are you there now ?

    Stay safe.
    Yes I am there

    I am now pretty sure I saw debris falling from an intercepted drone/missile. The Odessans are normally extremely blasé - they stroll about during air raid warnings

    But this was a massively loud bang - like a car backfiring times 50 - and everyone winced and crouched - and I turned and looked briefly back and I saw smoke. I hurried away. I thought maybe one of the many portable generators had exploded. But really - how likely is that?

    There are widespread reports of bangs and explosions around Odesa at exactly that time - 5-6pm - and there was air defence at work and a confirmed Russian attack

    That’s the most parsimonious explanation: flak or shrapnel descending. Quite unsettling
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Ghedebrav said:

    carnforth said:

    If a tory leader's mother had named him Winston, mockery would abound. but Keir is unremarked upon.

    Most people have no idea who Keir Hardy is.

    Fun* fact - my parents also named me after a once-famous trade union activist.


    *OK, not actually fun.
    I certainly have no idea who Keir Hardy is. Keir Hardie, on the other hand…

    (It’s not called Pedantic Betting without due cause)
    Apologies - that’s ‘Kier Hardy’ 😀
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,569

    carnforth said:

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    "Yes of course, but I shouldn't have to. I'm lucky enough to be able to afford it, though I hope never to have to need to. Vote for me, and I'll build an NHS that makes private heathcare obsolete."
    Yes, fine, but my point was that the NHS still deals with all the really urgent stuff. I think it was you who said earlier "what if his children were seriously ill?" Well, the NHS would be there for them, even in its current poor state.
    I don't remember the wording, but I was thinking of conditions which involve ongoing suffering, but which have waiting lists skippable by going private. Not conditions for which, as you correctly point out, the NHS has an effective monopoly.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    So SKS could get less votes than JC but many more seats.

    Could SKS fans and JC fans both have to explain this to each other?

    Got my biggest PB laugh of the day.

    Fair play.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Pagan2 said:

    So SKS could get less votes than JC but many more seats.

    Could SKS fans and JC fans both have to explain this to each other?

    or sks and jc could do a dual onlyfans account?
    Oh Christ.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    https://x.com/nadinedorries/status/1798430377624940697?s=46

    Can we get some more chat going about actual bets? There are still massive opportunities for trading Reform and the LDs if you believe that crossover is coming (even if it only lasts a few days) and would love some tips from more experienced heads.

    This is a seismic all time moment - or at least, for a week it will be!

    For actual bets you need to look for value.

    If you want a massive opportunity from trading Reform then the bet to do is to lay their seat totals.

    You can lay Farage being elected at 1.35 which looks like good value.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,775
    Andy_JS said:

    "Lee Anderson - Reform candidate
    @LeeAndersonMP_

    It's Happening 🇬🇧

    The common sense invasion is sweeping the nation thanks to the Peoples Army
    @reformparty_uk

    https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uk-pulls-to-within-two-points-of-tories-in-latest-yougov-poll-13148396"

    https://x.com/LeeAndersonMP_/status/1798388258780684297

    The quiet batpeople - they're back and storming it!..........
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    There’s always a meme


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,591

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Pagan2 said:

    So SKS could get less votes than JC but many more seats.

    Could SKS fans and JC fans both have to explain this to each other?

    or sks and jc could do a dual onlyfans account?
    Oh Christ.
    I apologize for your nightmare later
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Taxes will continue to go up, whoever takes over, and Labour will undoubtedly press the spending cuts button less hard.

    I think what that shows is that people don't start from policy detail and work from there to a voting decision, so much as start from vibes and then seek to rationalise those vibes.

    Me included, before anyone asks.

    Which is why explaining = losing and why Rishi is in so much trouble.
    Starmer's doing a fair bit of explaining himself
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    Not necessarily

    I was rang at 6.00pm on 27th December by my cardiologist to say my heart was worn out and I needed an urgent pacemaker

    In January the junior doctors went on strike and I didn’t receive my life saving pacemaker until the 6th February

    I was told that if I had chest pains to come to A & E which I actually did at 2.00am one morning only to be sent home not to drink coffee and rest and keep in touch

    Indeed I and my family were so worried I did contact Spire who offered me an immediate pacemaker operation but I did wait the next few weeks for the NHS
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    I have been considering the environmental impact of flying. I need to fly a lot between the UK and Finland, maybe 18 times a year, return. Getting the train is not an option due to timings. My problem is that because of the route, connecting flights are much cheaper and more convenient but worse in terms of carbon emissions - around 70% more for a connecting flight than a direct flight. They can be offset in theory but it is going to be many decades before aviation can be decarbonised. I am very sceptical about all the airlines and their claims about sustainability (Finnair for example fly half empty planes at inflated fares and make significant profits), all the legacy carriers rely on selling connecting flights which emit more carbon than the low cost carriers who just fill planes to the max and fly from A to B - although in doing so, they set fares so low that they actually create a demand for flying that didn't exist before.

    I just wondered what other people think about this issue? I don't think that you can ignore the problem.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Taz said:

    Labour rule out any money for the so called WASPI women

    Well done Labour.

    https://x.com/pensionsmonkey/status/1798410776434082205?s=61

    Agreed. A good move.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,981

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Being angry at the Tories is the only logical response.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    They're not our citizens, its a relic of imperialism that should be abolished.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Don't knock it; anger at the government is one of the big factors in any election where the government changes.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,775

    Ghedebrav said:

    boulay said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    carnforth said:

    If a tory leader's mother had named him Winston, mockery would abound. but Keir is unremarked upon.

    Most people have no idea who Keir Hardy is.

    Fun* fact - my parents also named me after a once-famous trade union activist.


    *OK, not actually fun.
    Jimmy Hoffa is a perfectly good name so don’t be embarrassed.
    You know what - I’m at a loose end in a Travelodge this evening, and that’s inspired me to download the audiobook of American Tabloid.
    May I also suggest "Hollywood Babylon"? Bit dated but what the hell!
    Wasn't that proven to be widely fiction? I like Angers stuff generally, but I think he made most of those stories up?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    darkage said:

    I have been considering the environmental impact of flying. I need to fly a lot between the UK and Finland, maybe 18 times a year, return. Getting the train is not an option due to timings. My problem is that because of the route, connecting flights are much cheaper and more convenient but worse in terms of carbon emissions - around 70% more for a connecting flight than a direct flight. They can be offset in theory but it is going to be many decades before aviation can be decarbonised. I am very sceptical about all the airlines and their claims about sustainability (Finnair for example fly half empty planes at inflated fares and make significant profits), all the legacy carriers rely on selling connecting flights which emit more carbon than the low cost carriers who just fill planes to the max and fly from A to B - although in doing so, they set fares so low that they actually create a demand for flying that didn't exist before.

    I just wondered what other people think about this issue? I don't think that you can ignore the problem.

    You have to do what you have to do. I’ve limited myself to one flight a year to see the in-laws in recent years but as they get frailer I’ll have to go to the US much more. Finland is tough as you can’t go by train as you say so don’t sweat it too much.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    They're not our citizens, its a relic of imperialism that should be abolished.
    If you as a uk citizen are allowed to vote if you live there not so bothered as that is reciprocal. If they can live here and vote but I can't live there and vote then thats an issue
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    That is true, and in case you didn't know, a very close paraphrase of one of Tony Blair's more memorable comments about his period in office. (I think it is quoted in Rawnesley's book The End Of The Party, but I can't be arsed to look it up.)
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    https://x.com/samfr/status/1798438576134517048?s=46

    Do we know how many seats the Tories still don’t have a candidate for?

    And do we know the same for the LDs and Reform?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Or the electorate has paid attention to what the Tories have done in office which is entirely logical.

    The Tory Party that believed in low taxes, aspiration and home ownership is dead and buried.

    Now we have the HYUFDian Tory Party that believes in high taxes, welfare to support client vote pensioners, inheritances and high house prices.

    When the old Tory Party returns it'll be worth voting for, but its current incarnation is no better than Labour.

    Labour welfare to support the poor is no more expensive than Tory welfare to support pensioners.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,859
    'There are serious issues at stake in this general election, and the Tories have just released nonsense figures with fake attribution and given it to newspapers who took it on trust. I’m really not sure that this will help their chances very much.'
    https://x.com/spectator/status/1798335581623091652

    Rishi Sunak is losing the Spectator, let alone the Sun.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    Starmer has very little to worry about if his claim he would use the NHS is the only thing Tories have on him.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,981
    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    That is true, and in case you didn't know, a very close paraphrase of one of Tony Blair's more memorable comments about his period in office. (I think it is quoted in Rawnesley's book The End Of The Party, but I can't be arsed to look it up.)
    Sorry this is totally a cop out...its not x political party at fault its the electorate....no sorry its a political parties responsibility if they want votes to persuade voters they have the best option
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    Unemployment is significantly lower today than in 2010.

    Spending on welfare today is higher than it was in 2010.

    Today's Tory Party is a high tax, high welfare party. Only welfare isn't going to the poor.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited June 5

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    They're not our citizens, its a relic of imperialism that should be abolished.
    It’s a legacy of imperialism that people have lived and made their lives here. And have you considered the impact of telling people in Northern Ireland they can’t vote unless they’re British? Having narrowly failed to restart the Troubles by imposing a hard border you rightist twats can’t wait to have another go can you?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    'There are serious issues at stake in this general election, and the Tories have just released nonsense figures with fake attribution and given it to newspapers who took it on trust. I’m really not sure that this will help their chances very much.'
    https://x.com/spectator/status/1798335581623091652

    Rishi Sunak is losing the Spectator, let alone the Sun.

    In fairness, the Tories lost Nelson long ago.

    (But he’s right, in this case)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Or the electorate has paid attention to what the Tories have done in office which is entirely logical.

    The Tory Party that believed in low taxes, aspiration and home ownership is dead and buried.

    Now we have the HYUFDian Tory Party that believes in high taxes, welfare to support client vote pensioners, inheritances and high house prices.

    When the old Tory Party returns it'll be worth voting for, but its current incarnation is no better than Labour.

    Labour welfare to support the poor is no more expensive than Tory welfare to support pensioners.
    Problem with your last sentence is Labour welfare to support pensioners is the same as conservatives
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Another brilliant idea from @BartholomewRoberts - ensure peace in Northern Ireland by telling people there they can only vote if they identify as British. Is there no end to the man’s genius?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,569
    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Does she understand the £2k is on top of the £13k not instead (not that £13k is accurate, of course)?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    They're not our citizens, its a relic of imperialism that should be abolished.
    It’s a legacy of imperialism that people have lived and made their lives here. It has nothing to do with imperialism. And have you considered the impact of telling people in Northern Ireland they can’t vote unless they’re British? Having narrowly failed to restart the Troubles by imposing a hard border you rightist twats can’t wait to have another go can you?
    If people have made their lives here they're welcome to get citizenship and then they'll have the vote, if they don't then that's their choice.

    Under the Good Friday Agreement I'd have no qualms with Irish people registering to vote in NI elections/constituencies, but in English/Welsh/Scottish constituencies then no, I see no reason to allow that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232
    DougSeal said:

    darkage said:

    I have been considering the environmental impact of flying. I need to fly a lot between the UK and Finland, maybe 18 times a year, return. Getting the train is not an option due to timings. My problem is that because of the route, connecting flights are much cheaper and more convenient but worse in terms of carbon emissions - around 70% more for a connecting flight than a direct flight. They can be offset in theory but it is going to be many decades before aviation can be decarbonised. I am very sceptical about all the airlines and their claims about sustainability (Finnair for example fly half empty planes at inflated fares and make significant profits), all the legacy carriers rely on selling connecting flights which emit more carbon than the low cost carriers who just fill planes to the max and fly from A to B - although in doing so, they set fares so low that they actually create a demand for flying that didn't exist before.

    I just wondered what other people think about this issue? I don't think that you can ignore the problem.

    You have to do what you have to do. I’ve limited myself to one flight a year to see the in-laws in recent years but as they get frailer I’ll have to go to the US much more. Finland is tough as you can’t go by train as you say so don’t sweat it too much.
    I’ve ruled out private jet flights for the rest of the summer

    Not just cutting back. Zero. Net zero private jetting Not a single Gulfstream til schools go back

    I’ve got about a dozen flights to do between now and then but every single one will be commercial and many not even in First. I’m prepared to go Business as well

    Until individuals step up - like me - we won’t see change
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Mrs Anabob - who has zero interest in politics - likes Sophy “because she always looks like she is enjoying herself”.

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,128
    edited June 5
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Another day, another explosion in Odesa... Heard a deep boom that seemed to come from the seaside.”

    https://x.com/zivoadam/status/1798354714117226681?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    UKRAINE – Explosion 💥 reported in Odesa, Zatoka area —possibly air defense interception ongoing after Russian assault.

    #Ukraine #Odesa #Zatoka #June5

    https://x.com/afgermania/status/1798356668939673902?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Are you there now ?

    Stay safe.
    Yes I am there

    I am now pretty sure I saw debris falling from an intercepted drone/missile. The Odessans are normally extremely blasé - they stroll about during air raid warnings

    But this was a massively loud bang - like a car backfiring times 50 - and everyone winced and crouched - and I turned and looked briefly back and I saw smoke. I hurried away. I thought maybe one of the many portable generators had exploded. But really - how likely is that?

    There are widespread reports of bangs and explosions around Odesa at exactly that time - 5-6pm - and there was air defence at work and a confirmed Russian attack

    That’s the most parsimonious explanation: flak or shrapnel descending. Quite unsettling
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Another day, another explosion in Odesa... Heard a deep boom that seemed to come from the seaside.”

    https://x.com/zivoadam/status/1798354714117226681?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    UKRAINE – Explosion 💥 reported in Odesa, Zatoka area —possibly air defense interception ongoing after Russian assault.

    #Ukraine #Odesa #Zatoka #June5

    https://x.com/afgermania/status/1798356668939673902?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Are you there now ?

    Stay safe.
    Yes I am there

    I am now pretty sure I saw debris falling from an intercepted drone/missile. The Odessans are normally extremely blasé - they stroll about during air raid warnings

    But this was a massively loud bang - like a car backfiring times 50 - and everyone winced and crouched - and I turned and looked briefly back and I saw smoke. I hurried away. I thought maybe one of the many portable generators had exploded. But really - how likely is that?

    There are widespread reports of bangs and explosions around Odesa at exactly that time - 5-6pm - and there was air defence at work and a confirmed Russian attack

    That’s the most parsimonious explanation: flak or shrapnel descending. Quite unsettling
    Look after yourself and perhaps don't hang around too long if you don't have to.

    Odessa has a fascinating history ; as I remember it was one of the cities Catherine the Great partly developed, or founded, for the Greeks of the Black Sea, to keep them on side. A lot of the same comunity ended up getting killed or deported in the war in Mariupol two years ago, which was another of those cities. I've always heard of it described as a beautiful, atmospheric, historic, and layered sort of place.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Or / And it shows how much the Tories have screwed up..
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,591
    Would any of the Tory leadership contenders be a better leader of the opposition than Farage?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,046
    Pagan2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
    Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.

    It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.

    The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.

    I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.

    Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    DougSeal said:

    Another brilliant idea from @BartholomewRoberts - ensure peace in Northern Ireland by telling people there they can only vote if they identify as British. Is there no end to the man’s genius?

    I never said that.

    There's special rules for Northern Ireland in the Good Friday Agreement and I'm happy to respect that.

    Doesn't mean Irish people resident in England should have the vote.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Scott_xP said:

    I have no idea if Ed Davey's campaign will have any impact on their seat total, but I am totally in favour of how few fucks he has to give to convention and trying to ape the others.

    Agreed. Oh aye, agreed.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    Not necessarily

    I was rang at 6.00pm on 27th December by my cardiologist to say my heart was worn out and I needed an urgent pacemaker

    In January the junior doctors went on strike and I didn’t receive my life saving pacemaker until the 6th February

    I was told that if I had chest pains to come to A & E which I actually did at 2.00am one morning only to be sent home not to drink coffee and rest and keep in touch

    Indeed I and my family were so worried I did contact Spire who offered me an immediate pacemaker operation but I did wait the next few weeks for the NHS
    I'm delighted that your health issues were resolved (as far as possible), and your posts over a few months have shown that the NHS did the job for you. You didn't go private.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,981
    carnforth said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Does she understand the £2k is on top of the £13k not instead (not that £13k is accurate, of course)?
    It's another 3k (on top of the 13k) with the tories :)
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,240
    biggles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
    Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.

    It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.

    The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.

    I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.

    Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
    Don't forget Scottish nationalism as well
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,813
    edited June 5

    DougSeal said:

    Another brilliant idea from @BartholomewRoberts - ensure peace in Northern Ireland by telling people there they can only vote if they identify as British. Is there no end to the man’s genius?

    I never said that.

    There's special rules for Northern Ireland in the Good Friday Agreement and I'm happy to respect that.

    Doesn't mean Irish people resident in England should have the vote.
    Should they pay tax to HMRC?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Scott_xP said:

    carnforth said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Does she understand the £2k is on top of the £13k not instead (not that £13k is accurate, of course)?
    It's another 3k (on top of the 13k) with the tories :)
    we think

    but it could be more
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.

    I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
    Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    biggles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
    Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.

    It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.

    The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.

    I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.

    Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
    I think SKS is going to be given the benefit of the doubt for the next few years - it's post 2029 that requires thinking about...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,981

    Would any of the Tory leadership contenders be a better leader of the opposition than Farage?

    All of them
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Another day, another explosion in Odesa... Heard a deep boom that seemed to come from the seaside.”

    https://x.com/zivoadam/status/1798354714117226681?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    UKRAINE – Explosion 💥 reported in Odesa, Zatoka area —possibly air defense interception ongoing after Russian assault.

    #Ukraine #Odesa #Zatoka #June5

    https://x.com/afgermania/status/1798356668939673902?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Are you there now ?

    Stay safe.
    Yes I am there

    I am now pretty sure I saw debris falling from an intercepted drone/missile. The Odessans are normally extremely blasé - they stroll about during air raid warnings

    But this was a massively loud bang - like a car backfiring times 50 - and everyone winced and crouched - and I turned and looked briefly back and I saw smoke. I hurried away. I thought maybe one of the many portable generators had exploded. But really - how likely is that?

    There are widespread reports of bangs and explosions around Odesa at exactly that time - 5-6pm - and there was air defence at work and a confirmed Russian attack

    That’s the most parsimonious explanation: flak or shrapnel descending. Quite unsettling
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    “Another day, another explosion in Odesa... Heard a deep boom that seemed to come from the seaside.”

    https://x.com/zivoadam/status/1798354714117226681?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    UKRAINE – Explosion 💥 reported in Odesa, Zatoka area —possibly air defense interception ongoing after Russian assault.

    #Ukraine #Odesa #Zatoka #June5

    https://x.com/afgermania/status/1798356668939673902?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    Are you there now ?

    Stay safe.
    Yes I am there

    I am now pretty sure I saw debris falling from an intercepted drone/missile. The Odessans are normally extremely blasé - they stroll about during air raid warnings

    But this was a massively loud bang - like a car backfiring times 50 - and everyone winced and crouched - and I turned and looked briefly back and I saw smoke. I hurried away. I thought maybe one of the many portable generators had exploded. But really - how likely is that?

    There are widespread reports of bangs and explosions around Odesa at exactly that time - 5-6pm - and there was air defence at work and a confirmed Russian attack

    That’s the most parsimonious explanation: flak or shrapnel descending. Quite unsettling
    Look after yourself and perhaps don't hang around too long.

    Odessa has a fascinating history ; as I remember it was partly one of the cities Catherine the Great founded for the Greeks of the Black Sea, to keep them on side. A lot of the same comunity ended up getting killed or deported in the war in Mariupol two years ago, which was another of those cities. I've always heard of it described as a beautiful, atmospheric, historic, and layered place.
    It’s a magical place. Stunning. With a unique dreamy ambience even in war!

    But yeah, it is also quite scary. Even before today I was wondering how long I will linger. Having seen that this arvo I don’t reckon I’ll be here for weeks, to put it mildly. Get my articles done; move on fast
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    DougSeal said:

    darkage said:

    I have been considering the environmental impact of flying. I need to fly a lot between the UK and Finland, maybe 18 times a year, return. Getting the train is not an option due to timings. My problem is that because of the route, connecting flights are much cheaper and more convenient but worse in terms of carbon emissions - around 70% more for a connecting flight than a direct flight. They can be offset in theory but it is going to be many decades before aviation can be decarbonised. I am very sceptical about all the airlines and their claims about sustainability (Finnair for example fly half empty planes at inflated fares and make significant profits), all the legacy carriers rely on selling connecting flights which emit more carbon than the low cost carriers who just fill planes to the max and fly from A to B - although in doing so, they set fares so low that they actually create a demand for flying that didn't exist before.

    I just wondered what other people think about this issue? I don't think that you can ignore the problem.

    You have to do what you have to do. I’ve limited myself to one flight a year to see the in-laws in recent years but as they get frailer I’ll have to go to the US much more. Finland is tough as you can’t go by train as you say so don’t sweat it too much.
    I’ve ruled out private jet flights for the rest of the summer

    Not just cutting back. Zero. Net zero private jetting Not a single Gulfstream til schools go back

    I’ve got about a dozen flights to do between now and then but every single one will be commercial and many not even in First. I’m prepared to go Business as well

    Until individuals step up - like me - we won’t see change
    #thestruggleisreal
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491

    Car crash on Sky for the Tory Tax Lie. It does seem that it’s unravelled. But, the D-Day coverage has seemingly swamped the whole row anyway.

    The lie is that taxes aren't going to increase.

    And all the parties are making it.
    In the report on ITV just now they have called out all parties for failing to address the IFS statement of 40 billion of tax shortfalls
    This one?

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-06-04/labour-and-tories-clash-over-2000-tax-claim-so-who-is-right

    You are actually using that analysis to defend the lie 🤷‍♀️

    Seriously 🤷‍♀️

    I mean, you watched that and came to the conclusion “there you are, Sunak hasn’t been caught out telling one of the biggest general election whoppers of all time.”
    You're doing it wrong: you need to say £2,000 every time you write a post like this.

    It's the latest £350 million on a bus and every time you write it, and annoy someone, they will respond, amplify and broadcast it further.

    It will drown out much else and all people will hear is "Labour will put up my taxes a lot more".
    You actually still think it’s going to work?

    I don’t believe you. You’re just wish-casting, which after horrible week I don’t blame you for. Absolutely everyone knows this lie won’t work now, so widely exposed as a lie and being ridiculed all day today across every news bulletin, and same will happen again every day whenever mentioned over the next 4 weeks, you don’t see how this massive media exposure of it as a lie will actually educate the electorate, it was such a transparently weak attempt to con them?

    You have never heard the story of the little boy who cried wolf?
    You don’t think what happened in 2016, how people came to feel conned by that one, is going to play here, in how they now regard this version of the same trick?

    No. This was always a Brexit election anyway in the astonishing threat to the Blue Wall, now already outed as telling another 2016 style lie, that reminder, that link to 2016 - how many votes in the coming backlash to Sunak’s mistakes yesterday, will the Tories actually lose?

    Labour are already going to get a poll bounce from Starmer winning the debate so convincingly, the big lie falling apart in just 24 hours too could send the Conservative share downward at same time. The coming polls could be a new definition of shocking.

    Let’s see who’s right. It’s 23.4 tonight.

    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-poll-tracker-will-labour-or-the-conservatives-win-12903488
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012

    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Mrs Anabob - who has zero interest in politics - likes Sophy “because she always looks like she is enjoying herself”.

    I think that is fair comment about Sophy - indeed she can be too nice
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    @DougSeal do British people in Dublin have the vote via their British citizenship?

    If not, why should Irish people in London, Cardiff or Edinburgh?

    Belfast is different.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    Scott_xP said:

    I have no idea if Ed Davey's campaign will have any impact on their seat total, but I am totally in favour of how few fucks he has to give to convention and trying to ape the others.

    Him coming across as more human and in touch will certainly be very attractive for many more Moderate Tories, particularly those in seats where Labour have no chance.

    I still think the LDs are very underpriced on seat spreads and on being the opposition.

    They have been within touching distance of the opposition, or already there, in many MRP polls for a bit now - and Farage’s return will only help that.

    I’m on LD’s ‘most seats without Labour’ at 10.5 and that looks a big price at the moment. Can still be had for around 5 and I think it will come down more.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    Sadly I think your last paragraph is no longer accurate. I know several people whith life threatening conditions who have opted to go private because they have no immediate prospect of meaningful treatment on the NHS. People dying on waiting lists is an established fact.

    But I agree with you that Starmer can't win and that is to the shame of our political commentariate. I would like to see him staate clearly that, yes he would use private health care if necessary, which for one thing would ease pressure on the NHS just a little, but that the aim should be to make going private unecessary.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,046
    eek said:

    biggles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
    Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.

    It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.

    The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.

    I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.

    Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
    I think SKS is going to be given the benefit of the doubt for the next few years - it's post 2029 that requires thinking about...
    Yeah that’s what I mean. The majority he’s going to get assures Labour of a full parliament, but it’s what then happens that’s troubling.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,591
    Scott_xP said:

    Would any of the Tory leadership contenders be a better leader of the opposition than Farage?

    All of them
    Who would you like to see as Tory leader?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    darkage said:

    I have been considering the environmental impact of flying. I need to fly a lot between the UK and Finland, maybe 18 times a year, return. Getting the train is not an option due to timings. My problem is that because of the route, connecting flights are much cheaper and more convenient but worse in terms of carbon emissions - around 70% more for a connecting flight than a direct flight. They can be offset in theory but it is going to be many decades before aviation can be decarbonised. I am very sceptical about all the airlines and their claims about sustainability (Finnair for example fly half empty planes at inflated fares and make significant profits), all the legacy carriers rely on selling connecting flights which emit more carbon than the low cost carriers who just fill planes to the max and fly from A to B - although in doing so, they set fares so low that they actually create a demand for flying that didn't exist before.

    I just wondered what other people think about this issue? I don't think that you can ignore the problem.

    You need Rail Baltica to be built, including the Tallinn to Helsinki tunnel.

    Then you should be able to do it from London with about 3 trains in about 24-26 hours: London-Brussels, Brussels-Berlin and then the proposed night sleeper from there to Tallinn, and through the tunnel if it's done.

    But, you'll probably need to wait at least 8-10 years and hope the Russians don't invade and seize the Suwałki Gap in the meantime.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    carnforth said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Does she understand the £2k is on top of the £13k not instead (not that £13k is accurate, of course)?
    There's also the spending side of the equation.

    And the government has been spent a lot more over the last five years per household than it did in the five years before that.

    Not least because of covid and Ukraine effects.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,173

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    carnforth said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SophyRidgeSky

    “How much has tax gone up under the Conservatives in the last parliamentary term per household?”

    Bim Afolami: It's difficult to calculate

    “According to @edconway taxes have gone up £13k. £2k under Labour sounds like a bargain in comparison, doesn't it?”

    Does she understand the £2k is on top of the £13k not instead (not that £13k is accurate, of course)?
    If you are explaining, you are losing.

    Or so I am led to believe.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.

    I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
    Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
    erm people in NI are already uk citizens
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012
    edited June 5

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    Not necessarily

    I was rang at 6.00pm on 27th December by my cardiologist to say my heart was worn out and I needed an urgent pacemaker

    In January the junior doctors went on strike and I didn’t receive my life saving pacemaker until the 6th February

    I was told that if I had chest pains to come to A & E which I actually did at 2.00am one morning only to be sent home not to drink coffee and rest and keep in touch

    Indeed I and my family were so worried I did contact Spire who offered me an immediate pacemaker operation but I did wait the next few weeks for the NHS
    I'm delighted that your health issues were resolved (as far as possible), and your posts over a few months have shown that the NHS did the job for you. You didn't go private.
    It was touch and go both in my health but also going private which my family wanted me to do
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,046

    biggles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    The public thinks the Conservatives are more likely to raise taxes than Labour, according to fresh polling shared with Sky News.

    Well, then, the public aren't thinking straight.
    Time for a new electorate, eh?
    The electorate doesn't care, it's just angry at the Conservatives and that's blinding it to logic.
    Politicians should remember and again not a party political point as it applies to all of them. We are governed by consent. They should be looking in horror at the figures reported when the populace are asked about their trust in politicians, the police, the media, etc and realise that they are rapidly running out of consent
    Yup. A lot of the smart arsery on here will turn to tears if Labour sinks as fast as I think they will after the election, in these circumstances.

    It will be tears because it may not be the Tories that replace them and it certainly won’t be the smug, posh, in it for the rich, Cameroon Tories.

    The country has been angry, to some extent, since about 2009 or earlier. Brexit was one demonstration, then there was Corbyn, and then Boris, but the underlying frustration wasn’t properly vented by any of those.

    I really do fear for what is going to be unleashed when the public turn to someone else after Starmer fails.

    Someone needed to give them some of what they wanted.
    Don't forget Scottish nationalism as well
    Yup. Choppy waters ahead. Those dreaming of a return to the 90s and forgetting about it all are, well, dreaming.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Scott_xP said:

    Would any of the Tory leadership contenders be a better leader of the opposition than Farage?

    All of them
    Probably easier to say who would be worse. Braverman and Jenrick spring to mind.

    Farage isn’t *really* a politician. He’s a campaigner (well, a grifter really, but let’s be generous).
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    edited June 5

    @DougSeal do British people in Dublin have the vote via their British citizenship?

    If not, why should Irish people in London, Cardiff or Edinburgh?

    Belfast is different.

    You really are an idiot. Yes, British people in Ireland do have a vote via their British citizenship for all Parliamentary and local elections*. The ignorance on this board on basic issues is staggering sometimes.

    You do realise that Northern Ireland is in the U.K. don’t you?

    *the only vote reserved for Irish Citizens is for the ceremonial office of President but we don’t let them vote for our monarch either.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,981
    So, the Tories did manage to get everybody talking about tax.

    Every news outlet has done a forensic analysis of how big a lie it was.

    Awesome work, lads. Trebles all round...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,051
    A Member of the United States Senate.

    Tuberville says Putin has only wanted peace all along but the U.S. wants war: “He dudn’t want Ukraine. He dudn’t want Europe. Hell, he’s got enough land of his own. He just wants to make sure he does not have US weapons in Ukraine.”
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1798424125058519109#m

    Putin doesn't want to conquer Ukraine or parts of it, despite all the times he has said just that. Right.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.

    I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
    Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
    Northern Ireland is always the exception to everything. And those who comtinualy bring it up (looking at you Doug) as a block to change when it is an exception are simply devoid of any other meaningful arguments.

    Anyway we could solve that particular issue by reunifying the island of Ireland. Its perfectly valid aspiration and one I share.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,569
    edited June 5

    @DougSeal do British people in Dublin have the vote via their British citizenship?

    If not, why should Irish people in London, Cardiff or Edinburgh?

    Belfast is different.

    Yes, they do. Except for the President, because our King is not elected.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,591
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.

    I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
    Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
    We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Scott_xP said:

    So, the Tories did manage to get everybody talking about tax.

    Every news outlet has done a forensic analysis of how big a lie it was.

    Awesome work, lads. Trebles all round...

    Going to be a bit of a problem for them when Labour does put up taxes isn't it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,012

    Scott_xP said:

    I have no idea if Ed Davey's campaign will have any impact on their seat total, but I am totally in favour of how few fucks he has to give to convention and trying to ape the others.

    Him coming across as more human and in touch will certainly be very attractive for many more Moderate Tories, particularly those in seats where Labour have no chance.

    I still think the LDs are very underpriced on seat spreads and on being the opposition.

    They have been within touching distance of the opposition, or already there, in many MRP polls for a bit now - and Farage’s return will only help that.

    I’m on LD’s ‘most seats without Labour’ at 10.5 and that looks a big price at the moment. Can still be had for around 5 and I think it will come down more.
    Outside southern England how many seats do you expect them to win and here in Wales
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,404
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer can't win, can he? Would you use private health care?:

    Yes: Tories on here and elsewhere jump up and down with charges of gross hypocrisy.
    No: Tories on here and elsewhere say he's an evil man who would let his family die for the sake of his principles.

    In reality, of course, if any member of his family had a life-threatening illness or accident then the NHS would leap to their rescue before the private sector could give him a price.

    I disagree with this. If he sent (had sent - I think they're grown up?) his kids to private school, then I think he could be labelled a hypocrite. Healthcare is a bit different and, I think, he knew he'd be in the minority by saying no to that question and felt the need to justify it.
    I don't see anything unethical in going private.
This discussion has been closed.