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  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,935

    Big_Ian said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is it actually possible we may see seats without a Tory candidate?

    Doubt it - enough people who can be prevailed upon. There is a risk, though, of inadequately vetted candidates.
    Little risk of any of them winning though.
    No. But a fairly high chance of causing embarrassment in the campaign. I mean, you get it with vetted candidates but, "Party forced to distance itself from candidate who told pensioner to fuck off to Dignitas on Twitter" is always sub-optimal even if the candidate won't win. And it's riskier with hasty selections.
    The whole Conservative Party should fuck off to Dignitas.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Europe shows the future. It will be fought between left and populist right. Britain will get a successful populist right party in the end, it’s up to the Tories whether it is them or a party that replaces them

    Ummm, the populist right is Europe's past.

    We fought wars as a result
    I think Leon's point is that it increasingly seems to be Europe's future as well.
    Yes, and I disagree with him that we should rush to embrace it.
    It’s rushing to embrace YOU is more the point

    It is inevitable. And it is the EU that you adore which leads the way, which is highly amusing and poignant
    Nothing is inevitable.
    And you've always had a fash curious bias.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    Don't get the mentality of it. Don't like Farage? Defeat the ideas, don't give them more publicity.

    He'll win Clacton.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,161
    edited June 5
    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Indeed. The previous stonking and all-time best Liberal Democrat performance in 2010 was on the back of a more centre-left manifesto.

    By far the best LD peformances that I can remember were from 2000-2010 when they were challenging New Labour from a slightly more leftward, if not always more statist, position, as mentioned.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    In other news, I'm going to call it that the Trump conviction has made no difference whatsoever to the polls in the US. Of course, he hasn't been sentenced yet, but I doubt that will make a difference unless he's jailed.

    I expect it'll be probation. It's a common sentence for the crime apparently, and despite his egregious attacks on the judicial system and absurd denials even of the non contentious parts of the situation he is technically a first time offender, plus the judge's remarks in the contempt of court hearings indicate that that Trump is running for president and could be president again is something he is bearing in mind.

    He wouldn't go to prison immediately (or if due to start right away he'd be let out during his appeals), so if it is possible it might be an idea to sentence to a few months of jail time (which seems like it would be warranted given lack of remorse etc), but set it to start after the US election.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,094

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    That Farage set the attack up on himself is 100% fake news. In fact it is pushing a conspiracy, is it not?
    I have no idea but the attack has led to an arrest

    I just cannot understand why anyone would joke about politicians being milkshake attacked, especially when many mps have condemned the attack on Farage
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think we have to accept that the game is up for the Conservative Party. As it is for Les Republicans in France, the Italian and Dutch Christian Democrats. Or the French or Greek Socialists. Parties eventually run out of road, and cease to speak for anyone other than careerists.

    Parties can be re-invented and it might be easier to do so in opposition. The Conservative party has survived for a very long time so I wouldn't be issuing the last rights just yet.

    Matthew Goodwin (calm down) makes the point that among the few conservative young people he knows, none associates with the Conservative party.
    Hunt is right about elections being won from the centre ground but the development of Reform is causing the Tories a major problem because they are losing so much of their hinterland to the right of centre that they should be able to rely on.

    The problem Reform and UKIP before them have is that there is never going to be a majority for them or even a large enough minority to get meaningful representation. All they are going to do is screw the Tories, a bit like so many Alba members are keen to screw the SNP in the hope that something better comes out of the wreckage.

    It may be that after 10 years or so of opposition the lesson will be learned that the centre right and the right need to hang in together if they want to win or influence the direction of this country. Maybe. But it is going to take quite a while.
    It depends on the vote distribution. Reform would be very unlikely to win current Con seats like Cheltenham and Winchester BUT they could hope to win Labour seats like Barnsley N and Sunderland Central,if Lab become unpopular.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,032
    edited June 5

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    Don't get the mentality of it. Don't like Farage? Defeat the ideas, don't give them more publicity.

    He'll win Clacton.
    Sell nudes on the t'interweb for a living, what millions of quid of free publicity, attack a politician....motivate solved. Nought political about it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,665

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    Don't get the mentality of it. Don't like Farage? Defeat the ideas, don't give them more publicity.

    He'll win Clacton.
    A month from now you could be posing for a group photo with him.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited June 5

    Trying to find somewhere to get something to eat in provincial England at 10.50pm.

    (1) Lots of places that say they close at 11pm actually don't, they mean they want to go home at 11pm and aren't interested in you after about 10.30pm
    (2) A shitload of people order crap from Dominos and Papa John's
    (3) Curry restaurants, if the lights are still on, will often be your saviour.

    So, yes, I'm having a chicken bhuna and a beer at 10.58pm. Nice.

    Since the pandemic it's been increasingly difficult even in big cities like London and New York. I was walking round NYC with my brother in May and we couldn't find anywhere near Penn Station after 11pm. Not what I was expecting given the "city that never sleeps" reputation.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,374

    Trying to find somewhere to get something to eat in provincial England at 10.50pm.

    (1) Lots of places that say they close at 11pm actually don't, they mean they want to go home at 11pm and aren't interested in you after about 10.30pm
    (2) A shitload of people order crap from Dominos and Papa John's
    (3) Curry restaurants, if the lights are still on, will often be your saviour.

    So, yes, I'm having a chicken bhuna and a beer at 10.58pm. Nice.

    There is some great food in West Cork, but I haven't braved the one Indian restaurant because its reviews are awful, so I might have to go up to the city.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,094

    Big_Ian said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is it actually possible we may see seats without a Tory candidate?

    Doubt it - enough people who can be prevailed upon. There is a risk, though, of inadequately vetted candidates.
    Little risk of any of them winning though.
    No. But a fairly high chance of causing embarrassment in the campaign. I mean, you get it with vetted candidates but, "Party forced to distance itself from candidate who told pensioner to fuck off to Dignitas on Twitter" is always sub-optimal even if the candidate won't win. And it's riskier with hasty selections.
    The whole Conservative Party should fuck off to Dignitas.
    Rather a good job I resigned from the party then
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    That Farage set the attack up on himself is 100% fake news. In fact it is pushing a conspiracy, is it not?
    I have no idea but the attack has led to an arrest

    I just cannot understand why anyone would joke about politicians being milkshake attacked, especially when many mps have condemned the attack on Farage
    I think the link to Wimpy may have gone over your head. That was the joke. Never mind.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited June 5
    Sean_F said:

    I think we have to accept that the game is up for the Conservative Party. As it is for Les Republicans in France, the Italian and Dutch Christian Democrats. Or the French or Greek Socialists. Parties eventually run out of road, and cease to speak for anyone other than careerists.

    Is it though? Les Republicains are now the key swing voters in France, Macron and his party only beat Le Pen and her party and Melenchon and his party in the French second ballot system due to most Les Republicains voters voting for Macron and his candidates in the second round of the presidential and legislative elections.

    The Italian Christian Democrats dissolved into the Democratic Party, which is the main centre left opposition in Italy and Forza Italia, who are a pivotal part of Meloni's governing coalition. The Dutch Christian Democrats were part of the Rutte government. The French Socialists are now part of Melenchon's block which was second in the legislative elections.

    Even in Canada Reform only got elected by merging with the rump of the Canadian Tories to form today's Canadian Conservative Party.

    Farage can't ever elect a Reform government without Tory support either
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Is banana flavour really that widely condemned in a milkshake ?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,843

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    Don't get the mentality of it. Don't like Farage? Defeat the ideas, don't give them more publicity.

    He'll win Clacton.
    They've no idea how to defeat the ideas.

    It's the sign of a young left that really has got nothing much to say.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,994
    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The bar in the Station Hotel was decorated like a train carriage so you could look out the (painted) windows while you supped.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104

    Trying to find somewhere to get something to eat in provincial England at 10.50pm.

    (1) Lots of places that say they close at 11pm actually don't, they mean they want to go home at 11pm and aren't interested in you after about 10.30pm
    (2) A shitload of people order crap from Dominos and Papa John's
    (3) Curry restaurants, if the lights are still on, will often be your saviour.

    So, yes, I'm having a chicken bhuna and a beer at 10.58pm. Nice.

    My local Tescos is no longer open 24 hours a day any more, so that's cut out a lot of potential options.

    Knew a chap once who ran a fried chicken place, poor hygeine rating and bad service, but was open very late to catch people coming out of clubs etc. Had a loose idea of adherence to his hours of operation and other licensing conditions, and would direct people to the rear to make purchases past 1am. When caught he'd just say "What am I supposed to do, not feed hungry people?"

    The answer being, yes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    I spent a summer working in a wimpy once. My payslip said "chef".

    It was an old style waitress service one. Great fun was had, despite having to clean out deep fat fryers.

    Table service Wimpys are still big in South Africa.

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    Nigelb said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Is banana flavour really that widely condemned in a milkshake ?
    Occasionally I have a milkshake from a restaurant where its an outrageous flavour (Biscoff or something) and practically an additional course its that stodgy. fasr food milkshake is awful - and Banana is the worst of the worst. What is the appeal?

    I've walked past that Wimpy enough times but never actually been in. Can barely believe its still a thing - Wimpy opened and quickly closed in Rochdale when I was something like 13. An eternity ago...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,853
    Scott_xP said:

    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The bar in the Station Hotel was decorated like a train carriage so you could look out the (painted) windows while you supped.
    Presumably it was all done up in compartments and there were film screens outside the windows so the locals could find out what a train ride was like? Not much chance otherwise in Fraserburgh.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,473

    Trying to find somewhere to get something to eat in provincial England at 10.50pm.

    (1) Lots of places that say they close at 11pm actually don't, they mean they want to go home at 11pm and aren't interested in you after about 10.30pm
    (2) A shitload of people order crap from Dominos and Papa John's
    (3) Curry restaurants, if the lights are still on, will often be your saviour.

    So, yes, I'm having a chicken bhuna and a beer at 10.58pm. Nice.

    There is some great food in West Cork, but I haven't braved the one Indian restaurant because its reviews are awful, so I might have to go up to the city.
    I'm fucking eating this bhuna even if it's made of cat.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The last time I remember seeing one in England was in about 1988 when I was at primary school.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,161
    edited June 5
    Wimpy always had far better, and more vegetable and mayonmaise-filled burgers, than McDonalds or Burger King, that also tasted slightly less prouction-line, if not exactly Gourmet.

    Fond memories of Queensway in the 1980's, and the then down-at-heel and shabby chic of the area.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    Don't get the mentality of it. Don't like Farage? Defeat the ideas, don't give them more publicity.

    He'll win Clacton.
    Sell nudes on the t'interweb for a living, what millions of quid of free publicity, attack a politician....motivate solved. Nought political about it.
    Indeed. The young lady in question has today launched a new ‘my milkshake’ campaign to gain new subscribers. The Daily Mail have all the details, for those interested in further reading.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,032
    In an open letter, more than 100 Jewish figures in the media and entertainment industry condemned the BBC’s decision to stand by Sheikh, who began commentating this week for Test Match Special.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/05/bbc-accused-double-standards-failing-drop-cricket-pundit/
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,852

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    There's a Wimpy in Upminster (Havering).
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    Nigelb said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Is banana flavour really that widely condemned in a milkshake ?
    Occasionally I have a milkshake from a restaurant where its an outrageous flavour (Biscoff or something) and practically an additional course its that stodgy. fasr food milkshake is awful - and Banana is the worst of the worst. What is the appeal?

    I've walked past that Wimpy enough times but never actually been in. Can barely believe its still a thing - Wimpy opened and quickly closed in Rochdale when I was something like 13. An eternity ago...
    I have fond memories of having a "Lime Milkshake" on Blackpool Promenade as a child. I'm sure it's probably shortened my life later life by 10 years, but boy was it a treat in the 70s.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,032
    edited June 5
    Am I remembering correctly you used to get a proper plate, knife and fork in Wimpy? I presumed they had long since gone with the rise of the million different new burger chains (many of which are part of massive multi-national groups).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The last time I remember seeing one in England was in about 1988 when I was at primary school.
    There are 60 left in England.

    https://locations.wimpy.uk.com/england.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,032
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The last time I remember seeing one in England was in about 1988 when I was at primary school.
    There are 60 left in England.

    https://locations.wimpy.uk.com/england.html
    Wow that many.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The last time I remember seeing one in England was in about 1988 when I was at primary school.
    Long defunct in the US.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_fast-food_restaurant_chains
    Wimpy Grills – founded in Bloomington, Indiana, in 1934, it eventually grew to 25 locations within the United States and 1,500 outside of the US. The international locations were eventually sold to J. Lyons and Co. in the United Kingdom, which remains open, while all of the American locations eventually closed by 1978..

    Has branches in Kuwait and the UAE too, apparently.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,852
    Nigelb said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Is banana flavour really that widely condemned in a milkshake ?
    Just as long as it's not pineapple!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Is banana flavour really that widely condemned in a milkshake ?
    Occasionally I have a milkshake from a restaurant where its an outrageous flavour (Biscoff or something) and practically an additional course its that stodgy. fasr food milkshake is awful - and Banana is the worst of the worst. What is the appeal?

    I've walked past that Wimpy enough times but never actually been in. Can barely believe its still a thing - Wimpy opened and quickly closed in Rochdale when I was something like 13. An eternity ago...
    I have fond memories of having a "Lime Milkshake" on Blackpool Promenade as a child. I'm sure it's probably shortened my life later life by 10 years, but boy was it a treat in the 70s.
    Excuse me, *lime*?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,099
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    The last time I remember seeing one in England was in about 1988 when I was at primary school.
    There are 60 left in England.

    https://locations.wimpy.uk.com/england.html
    The one in Horsham sells nice ice-cream. Yes, really.
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 457

    Wimpy always had far better, and more vegetable and mayonmaise-filled burgers, than McDonalds or Burger King, that also tasted slightly less prouction-line, if not exactly Gourmet.

    Fond memories of Queenway in the 1980's.

    Their delicious spicy beanburgers were decades ahead of the competition. Still on the menu even now.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Chairman Ric has found his lifeboat.

    https://x.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1798477070978232653?s=46

    I suspect a fair few of the Red Wall Tories will be secretly hoping that he fails to win.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    Don't get the mentality of it. Don't like Farage? Defeat the ideas, don't give them more publicity.

    He'll win Clacton.
    They've no idea how to defeat the ideas.

    It's the sign of a young left that really has got nothing much to say.
    At last, the Tory party has found something they have in common with the young.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    Foxy said:

    Farooq said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    Joking about the fact we still have a WIMPY to buy milkshakes from.

    Nobody in politics should have milkshake or anything else thrown at them. Even if they are Farage.
    It's deeply weird that Wimpy still exists. Yet there it is in The Broch. The Town that Time Forgot.
    I spent a summer working in a wimpy once. My payslip said "chef".

    It was an old style waitress service one. Great fun was had, despite having to clean out deep fat fryers.

    Table service Wimpys are still big in South Africa.

    Reminds me of a quite enjoyable 'Heston' series where he tries to revitalise Little Chef. It's a tragedy of British management.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375572/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,508

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    That Farage set the attack up on himself is 100% fake news. In fact it is pushing a conspiracy, is it not?
    Self-publicity is what he does. Have seen a couple of "he set it up things" with pictures and everything. If that isn't right then happy to be corrected.

    The truth matters then? Interesting development after the excitement of last night.
    Can you take down the creepy picture of the sociopath / doomsday survivalist you are using as avatar? It is frightening my sheep.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    No other relevant factors there were there! Not least the Tories occupying exactly the same ground.

    Did rather well in 2010 though...
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    ohnotnow said:

    Nigelb said:

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Is banana flavour really that widely condemned in a milkshake ?
    Occasionally I have a milkshake from a restaurant where its an outrageous flavour (Biscoff or something) and practically an additional course its that stodgy. fasr food milkshake is awful - and Banana is the worst of the worst. What is the appeal?

    I've walked past that Wimpy enough times but never actually been in. Can barely believe its still a thing - Wimpy opened and quickly closed in Rochdale when I was something like 13. An eternity ago...
    I have fond memories of having a "Lime Milkshake" on Blackpool Promenade as a child. I'm sure it's probably shortened my life later life by 10 years, but boy was it a treat in the 70s.
    Excuse me, *lime*?
    It was green. What more do you want? Sheesh!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited June 5

    Been having a bit more of a look at the polling for Canada 1993. In some ways the Progressive Conservatives were still lucky to get 2 seats as Reform Canada only overtook them in the polls right at the end of the campaign:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1993_Canadian_federal_election

    After the 1993 election the PCs collapsed even further, down to 6% at one point before recovering somewhat:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_1997_Canadian_federal_election

    In the 1997 election the PCs recovered to 18.8% of the vote and 20 MPs before declining again in 2000 and merging with Reform's successor Party the Canadian Alliance in 2003 to form today's Conservative Party of Canada
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684

    Am I remembering correctly you used to get a proper plate, knife and fork in Wimpy? I presumed they had long since gone with the rise of the million different new burger chains (many of which are part of massive multi-national groups).

    There are some table service ones still, with plates, cutlery and waitresses. Even the famous bendy sausages.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,099

    The truth matters then? Interesting development after the excitement of last night.

    Can you take down the creepy picture of the sociopath / doomsday survivalist you are using as avatar? It is frightening my sheep.
    I don't quite know how to put this, but...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Indeed. The previous stonking and all-time best Liberal Democrat performance in 2010 was on the back of a more centre-left manifesto.

    By far the best LD peformances that I can remember were from 2000-2010 when they were challenging New Labour from a slightly more leftward, if not always more statist, position, as mentioned.
    Under Charles Kennedy and Clegg version 2010 the LDs prospered best under FPTP by being New Labour's leftwing conscience in 2005 and 2010.

    As Farage is now playing the role of the rightwing conscience of the Sunak Tories
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    ToryJim said:

    Chairman Ric has found his lifeboat.

    https://x.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1798477070978232653?s=46

    I suspect a fair few of the Red Wall Tories will be secretly hoping that he fails to win.

    What on Earth have the good burghers of Basildon done to deserve Holden Dick as their PPC?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,676
    *I might be wrong*

    I thought that Farage would have no effect on the remaining Tory vote. That what remain are traditionalist types who are as sceptical of Reform as they are Labour, and that there was a hard floor of around 20%.

    But no. This YouGov poll...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    That Farage set the attack up on himself is 100% fake news. In fact it is pushing a conspiracy, is it not?
    Self-publicity is what he does. Have seen a couple of "he set it up things" with pictures and everything. If that isn't right then happy to be corrected.

    The truth matters then? Interesting development after the excitement of last night.
    Can you take down the creepy picture of the sociopath / doomsday survivalist you are using as avatar? It is frightening my sheep.
    I should update it again. I've lost 23 kilos since I took that last winter.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    O/T

    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, said Juliet, but the legislature of Illinois does not agree. It believes that the word “offender” should now be replaced by the term “justice-impacted individual.”"

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-root-cause-of-crime/
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,508

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    That Farage set the attack up on himself is 100% fake news. In fact it is pushing a conspiracy, is it not?
    Self-publicity is what he does. Have seen a couple of "he set it up things" with pictures and everything. If that isn't right then happy to be corrected.

    The truth matters then? Interesting development after the excitement of last night.
    Can you take down the creepy picture of the sociopath / doomsday survivalist you are using as avatar? It is frightening my sheep.
    I should update it again. I've lost 23 kilos since I took that last winter.
    Wait. What? Self publicity is exactly what you are accusing Nigel Farage of this week.

    Don’t you feel any guilt?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    No other relevant factors there were there! Not least the Tories occupying exactly the same ground.

    Did rather well in 2010 though...
    Clegg was promising to scrap tuition fees in 2010 and positioned himself on the centre left then, hence the sense of betrayal when he formed a centre right government with Cameron.

  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 5
    Must be one of the tightest majorities in history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_North_West_Lok_Sabha_constituency

    Majority of 48 on a turnout of 951,580. Electorate of 1.74m.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited June 5
    Eabhal said:

    *I might be wrong*

    I thought that Farage would have no effect on the remaining Tory vote. That what remain are traditionalist types who are as sceptical of Reform as they are Labour, and that there was a hard floor of around 20%.

    But no. This YouGov poll...

    In the final UK EU Parliament elections in 2019 Farage's Brexit Party got 32% and May's Tories just 9%.

    If that translated to national elections if Farage overtook the Tories on votes this time, if he squeezed the Tories further under FPTP at the general election after next or took them over not impossible Farage could be UK PM within a decade if a Starmer government proved unpopular and managed the economy poorly
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited June 5

    In an open letter, more than 100 Jewish figures in the media and entertainment industry condemned the BBC’s decision to stand by Sheikh, who began commentating this week for Test Match Special.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/05/bbc-accused-double-standards-failing-drop-cricket-pundit/

    Boycott got booted off for being an old white bloke from Hemsworth despite being one of the most popular commentators on TMS.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,852
    King's Speech on BBC1 right now!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,091
    Watched Godzilla Minus One this evening.

    A bit slow, but satisfying. Production aesthetic was great, and Akira Ifukube's legendary theme is always a joy to re-encounter.

    PB aviation types will like the recreation of the
    J7W canard fighter.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyushu_J7W_Shinden
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,104
    edited June 5
    Chameleon said:

    Must be one of the tightest majorities in history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_North_West_Lok_Sabha_constituency

    Majority of 48 on a turnout of 951,580. Electorate of 1.74m.

    A tight race between Shiv Sena and *checks* Shiv Sena (UBT).

    Edit: Looks like at least 15 parties achieved a single seat in the Indian election, and some of those are alliances of multiple regional parties.

    Indian elections must be absolutely bonkers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    Chameleon said:

    Must be one of the tightest majorities in history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_North_West_Lok_Sabha_constituency

    Majority of 48 on a turnout of 951,580. Electorate of 1.74m.

    Nearly the entire vote went to 2 parties, both Hindu nationalists.I see.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,852
    Chameleon said:

    Must be one of the tightest majorities in history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_North_West_Lok_Sabha_constituency

    Majority of 48 on a turnout of 951,580. Electorate of 1.74m.

    Even tighter than Rishi's drainpipes!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,676
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    *I might be wrong*

    I thought that Farage would have no effect on the remaining Tory vote. That what remain are traditionalist types who are as sceptical of Reform as they are Labour, and that there was a hard floor of around 20%.

    But no. This YouGov poll...

    In the final UK EU Parliament elections in 2019 Farage's Brexit Party got 32% and May's Tories just 9%.
    Let me Baxter that...

    But seriously, all about turnout now. The Conservatives have to drag anyone who has consistently voted Tory over the last 30 years into the polling place. That's what survival will take. 100% turnout for that group.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684

    King's Speech on BBC1 right now!

    Christmas already? Is it because the Turkeys voted to have it early?
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited June 5
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    *I might be wrong*

    I thought that Farage would have no effect on the remaining Tory vote. That what remain are traditionalist types who are as sceptical of Reform as they are Labour, and that there was a hard floor of around 20%.

    But no. This YouGov poll...

    In the final UK EU Parliament elections in 2019 Farage's Brexit Party got 32% and May's Tories just 9%.
    Let me Baxter that...

    But seriously, all about turnout now. The Conservatives have to drag anyone who has consistently voted Tory over the last 30 years into the polling place. That's what survival will take. 100% turnout for that group.
    Arguably, we've been swimming water ever since May 2019.

    They had no right to win from there. They probably should have been destroyed from that point.

    Thing is, Corbin probably woulda won.

    and that would have been a catastrophe that would have supercharged the right, by now.

    Counterfactuals, eh?!

    Instead we get a competent centre-left government who can look forward to a decent honeymoon, before a couple of terms in power. Maybe three?

    Unless they fuck it up. Which I doubt they will.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    edited June 5
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, said Juliet, but the legislature of Illinois does not agree. It believes that the word “offender” should now be replaced by the term “justice-impacted individual.”"

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-root-cause-of-crime/

    I got told off by our ward sister for referring to a prison inmate under escort on our ward as "a convict".

    I am sure that he has heard worse language in his time in nick.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    Foxy said:

    Chameleon said:

    Must be one of the tightest majorities in history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_North_West_Lok_Sabha_constituency

    Majority of 48 on a turnout of 951,580. Electorate of 1.74m.

    Nearly the entire vote went to 2 parties, both Hindu nationalists.I see.
    I can't believe there was no-one in that constituency who wanted to vote for different types of parties other than Hindu nationalists.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,473
    It wasn't bad, filled a hole, but now bloated and working out how long I need to give it and what I need to do before I can go to bed.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,852

    It wasn't bad, filled a hole, but now bloated and working out how long I need to give it and what I need to do before I can go to bed.

    Is that a euphemism for something??
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
    Ed Davey is an Orange Booker, so could easily appeal to Cameroons.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 5
    Foxy said:

    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
    Ed Davey is an Orange Booker, so could easily appeal to Cameroons.
    Yep - very much the last of the musketeers in that respect. Rob Blackie is one to watch out for in terms of them gaining ground within the party - although I believe he (bafflingly) isn't standing. His leaflet was very orange book and explicitly YIMBY for the Mayoral election in London.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited June 5
    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
    If the LDs put forward a centre right platform they lose their SDP, social democratic wing to Labour or even the Greens and are back under 10% again as in 2015 with no Labour tactical votes for them either in their target seats.

    They won't become the OO on that. The only party that could replace the Tories as the OO to Starmer Labour is a party led by Farage, as around 30%+ will vote for a socially conservative, pro Brexit, rightwing party
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I think that’s a (near?) transcript of her opening to today’s Politics Hub. It’s a good show. I enjoy it.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,529

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    *I might be wrong*

    I thought that Farage would have no effect on the remaining Tory vote. That what remain are traditionalist types who are as sceptical of Reform as they are Labour, and that there was a hard floor of around 20%.

    But no. This YouGov poll...

    In the final UK EU Parliament elections in 2019 Farage's Brexit Party got 32% and May's Tories just 9%.
    Let me Baxter that...

    But seriously, all about turnout now. The Conservatives have to drag anyone who has consistently voted Tory over the last 30 years into the polling place. That's what survival will take. 100% turnout for that group.
    Arguably, we've been swimming water ever since May 2019.

    They had no right to win from there. They probably should have been destroyed from that point.

    Thing is, Corbin probably woulda won.

    and that would have been a catastrophe that would have supercharged the right, by now.

    Counterfactuals, eh?!

    Instead we get a competent centre-left government who can look forward to a decent honeymoon, before a couple of terms in power. Maybe three?

    Unless they fuck it up. Which I doubt they will.
    Never underestimate the power of governments to mess things up. Especially in the social media age. There is no way a large influx of unexpectedly victorious new MPs will stay disciplined and on message - or that Labour will be able to balance the books without going for a wealth tax. Both will result in damage to their popularity over their first term. The issue is what happens to the rump conservative party? Who will survive to lead them and what direction will they go?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,050
    edited June 5
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
    If the LDs put forward a centre right platform they lose their SDP, social democratic wing to Labour or even the Greens and are back under 10% again as in 2015 with no Labour tactical votes for them either in their target seats.

    They won't become the OO on that. The only party that could replace the Tories as the OO to Starmer Labour is a party led by Farage, as around 30%+ will vote for a socially conservative, pro Brexit, rightwing party
    I don't think the left/right axis is very meaningful anymore to British politics. What defines a party more is its attitude to internal democracy, individual liberty and authoritarianism.

    That's why LDs can appeal to the free enterprise right, a group repelled by Brexit protectionism, while still appealing to Greens by being decentralised. It is a space between the authoritarian centralising philosophy of Labour and the reactionary social conservatism, culture war and Autarky of Reform and Conservatives.

    It isn't a vast space as most Britons don't really value freedom, and prefer the smack of firm government,, but it is one that spreads well outside of current LD support, particularly to one nation Conservatives.
    Voters who are pro free enterprise, pro low taxes and small state, pro immigration and socially liberal amount to 10% of the electorate at most. That is the brutal electoral reality.

    There might be a market for a party with such an approach under PR, under FPTP it would get steamrollered by Labour and the Reform/Conservative main block
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,684
    edited June 5
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
    If the LDs put forward a centre right platform they lose their SDP, social democratic wing to Labour or even the Greens and are back under 10% again as in 2015 with no Labour tactical votes for them either in their target seats.

    They won't become the OO on that. The only party that could replace the Tories as the OO to Starmer Labour is a party led by Farage, as around 30%+ will vote for a socially conservative, pro Brexit, rightwing party
    I don't think the left/right axis is very meaningful anymore to British politics. What defines a party more is its attitude to internal democracy, individual liberty and authoritarianism.

    That's why LDs can appeal to the free enterprise right, a group repelled by Brexit protectionism, while still appealing to Greens by being decentralised. It is a space between the authoritarian centralising philosophy of Labour and the reactionary social conservatism, culture war and Autarky of Reform and Conservatives.

    It isn't a vast space as most Britons don't really value freedom, and prefer the smack of firm government,, but it is one that spreads well outside of current LD support, particularly to one nation Conservatives.
    Voters who are pro free enterprise, pro low taxes and small state, pro immigration and socially liberal amount to 10% of the electorate at most. That is the brutal electoral reality.

    There might be a market for a party with such an approach under PR, under FPTP it would get steamrollered by Labour and the Reform/Conservative main block
    Yes, but we do need to grow the share of people that genuinely believe in it. It's the right answer to the problems of the country.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited June 5
    O/T

    Bizarre video from the BBC archive about a faux-posh but poor young couple who've decided to "live beyond their means".

    "1968: A LIFE of NECESSARY EXTRAVAGANCE | Man Alive | Weird and Wonderful | BBC Archive"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58g_vJLBmxU
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,032
    edited June 5
    Andy_JS said:

    In an open letter, more than 100 Jewish figures in the media and entertainment industry condemned the BBC’s decision to stand by Sheikh, who began commentating this week for Test Match Special.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/05/bbc-accused-double-standards-failing-drop-cricket-pundit/

    Boycott got booted off for being an old white bloke from Hemsworth despite being one of the most popular commentators on TMS.
    I think to be fair for the case against Boycott, he is massively out of touch with modern cricket, particularly T20. Same as Sky rightly got rid of Botham, Holding, Lloyd, Gower (although Gower is a good lead presenter as shown more recently on TNT). The BBC of course threw Vaughan under the bus with a mere allegation of racism and even then it was super weak if it was even true and literally every other non-white player who played under him said he was a top bloke, great captain, did everything for their careers.

    The problem is most of the other people BBC have employed have not much more idea. Tuffers, Vaughan, etc talking about T20 tactics is painful. Occasionally they have Tymal Mills on, who does actually know.

    Compare to Sky who replaced the old guard with the likes of Eoin Morgan, Kumar Sangakkara, Dinesh Karthik, who are top drawer.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    edited June 5

    Andy_JS said:

    In an open letter, more than 100 Jewish figures in the media and entertainment industry condemned the BBC’s decision to stand by Sheikh, who began commentating this week for Test Match Special.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/05/bbc-accused-double-standards-failing-drop-cricket-pundit/

    Boycott got booted off for being an old white bloke from Hemsworth despite being one of the most popular commentators on TMS.
    I think to be fair for the case against Boycott, he is massively out of touch with modern cricket, particularly T20. Same as Sky rightly got rid of Botham, Holding, Lloyd, Gower (although Gower is a good lead presenter as shown more recently on TNT). The BBC of course threw Vaughan under the bus with a mere allegation of racism and even then it was super weak if it was even true and literally every other non-white player who played under him said he was a top bloke, great captain, did everything for their careers.

    The problem is most of the other people BBC have employed have not much more idea. Tuffers, Vaughan, etc talking about T20 tactics is painful. Occasionally they have Tymal Mills on, who does actually know.

    Compare to Sky who replaced the old guard with the likes of Eoin Morgan, Kumar Sangakkara, Dinesh Karthik, who are top drawer.
    I'm a cricket traditionalist. I don't like T20 and love test cricket, so I was never going to agree with the Boycott decision. But I agree with what you've written from a neutral point of view.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,535

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Ghedebrav said:

    nico679 said:

    Starmers response to the ECHR question was another open goal missed .

    He should have made it clear that the only European countries not in the ECHR are Russia and Belarus and do people want the UK sharing that company.

    He needs to do better in the final leaders debate .

    We are going to get full on anti ECHR from Farage in this campaign
    ...and from Rishi. Two peas, one pod.
    We will run out of things to leave at some point.
    We could leave the Commonwealth - after all, it's full of foreigners?
    We should remove voting rights in national elections from non-citizens.
    So disenfranchise Commonwealth and Irish people resident here. Why?
    Because the only people who should get a vote are those who have committed to the future of the country. If a Commonwealth or Irish citizen wants to take part in the decision making process for the future of our country then they should commit to UK citizenship.

    I would also remove the vote from ex-pats who have permanently settled in other countries.
    Brilliant idea. Wouldn’t stoke any fires in the Six Counties at all. “You can vote if you commit to U.K. citizenship”. Will go down a storm in Derry and West Belfast that will.
    We can keep the exception for Irish citizens but non-reciprocal voting rights for everyone in the Commonwealth is an anachronism.
    No taxation without representation!
    You can try that argument in the US, but you won't get far.
    Commonwealth citizens living in the UK pay tax to HMRC.
    So do French, German and US citizens. They don't get the vote so why should Jamaicans or Indians?

    I was amazed at how many of the UK-based Indian IT staff we had working for the bank had vote in the EU Ref. Every one who told me how they voted, voted Leave, including one who thought his vote wouldn't have counted because he was in a pro-Remain constituency.
    In spite of the fact they voted Leave I would still contend they should not have had that vote unless they were British citizens. I also believe that ex-pats settled in other countries should not have had the vote.
    I am with you on the first point.

    On the second point, I believe every British citizen should have the vote, and pay UK taxes* wherever they live.

    (*Offset FATCA-style by any local taxes they pay.)
    I can go for that. GThe US get many things wrong but I think their attitude to expats and taxes is generally the right one.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,665
    https://x.com/robfordmancs/status/1798457139041538108

    This cannot, cannot, cannot be repeated often enough: Reform will hit harder than polls suggest because they weren’t on the ballot last time in vast majority of Tory seats, and they will now in all of them. The implications of this still haven’t been taken in. Lethal for Tories.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    https://x.com/robfordmancs/status/1798457139041538108

    This cannot, cannot, cannot be repeated often enough: Reform will hit harder than polls suggest because they weren’t on the ballot last time in vast majority of Tory seats, and they will now in all of them. The implications of this still haven’t been taken in. Lethal for Tories.

    There's still a day for Reform and the Tories to make a coupon deal. That would be a game changer.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,099
    edited June 6
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,300

    https://x.com/robfordmancs/status/1798457139041538108

    This cannot, cannot, cannot be repeated often enough: Reform will hit harder than polls suggest because they weren’t on the ballot last time in vast majority of Tory seats, and they will now in all of them. The implications of this still haven’t been taken in. Lethal for Tories.

    Reform were more of a problem for the Consertives while Richard Tice was the leader in some seats if the current polling was nailed on, now Nigel Farage is the leader its become a far bigger problem for the Labour party under Keir Starmer. Just how many votes will he attract from former Labour voters who switched to UKIP first before going Conservative in 2019 while the narrative is that Labour is so far ahead in the polls they cannot possible lose and its all about whether they can achieve a record breaking majority that beats Tony Blairs result in 1997?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    Bizarre video from the BBC archive about a faux-posh but poor young couple who've decided to "live beyond their means".

    "1968: A LIFE of NECESSARY EXTRAVAGANCE | Man Alive | Weird and Wonderful | BBC Archive"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58g_vJLBmxU

    According to Betfair's horsey forum, the race shown is not the same one he places the bet on, and it is filmed at Epsom, the day before Sir Ivor won the Derby with Lester up.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904
    Which constituencies are being targeted the most by online political adverts?
    Analysis of political parties' spending on digital adverts reveals the key election battlegrounds are in the South East.

    https://news.sky.com/story/which-constituencies-are-being-targeted-the-most-by-online-political-adverts-13148413

    As an aside, not in the story, the rules may need to be tightened up to cover targeted advertising so it comes under constituency spending limits rather than national ones. Trouble is, if Party X spends £50,000 on adverts to voters in Dunny-on-the-Wold that is one thing but £250,000 on all the rotten boroughs, or an entire region, there is an obvious loophole.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    That was debunked within a few minutes of the claim first being made. It's was case of mistaken identity.

    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes."
    The alleged proponent has been arrested and identified as a Corbyn supporter
    She’s been charged with assault and criminal damage.

    She’ll make any fines back and some with the extra custom her onlyfans site gets.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, said Juliet, but the legislature of Illinois does not agree. It believes that the word “offender” should now be replaced by the term “justice-impacted individual.”"

    https://www.takimag.com/article/the-root-cause-of-crime/

    I got told off by our ward sister for referring to a prison inmate under escort on our ward as "a convict".

    I am sure that he has heard worse language in his time in nick.
    What should you have called him in their opinion ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,418
    Andy_JS said:

    DavidL said:

    Jonathan said:

    Genuine question, have the Lib Dems come out with any policies yet? Curious.

    We all have to learn to sailboard, apparently.
    There have been lots of LibDem policy announcements. They don’t get as much media coverage. The latest big one was free personal care for adults
    Ed Davey will wipe your bum, personally.
    He was doing his bit to win over Reform UK voters today by getting a speeding ticket. 😊
    At least he accepted it and didn’t palm it off on his wife. Unlike a past Lib Dem.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Apparently Labours manifesto will be launched next Thursday . Surely there will be a few surprises in there .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,373

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    "Milkshake attacks". The work of the milkshake Taliban? Take it easy BigG. Think instead about Labour chaos in Wales and how that might play out in the GE and deliver Rishi a hatful of seats, or maybe not.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750
    fitalass said:

    https://x.com/robfordmancs/status/1798457139041538108

    This cannot, cannot, cannot be repeated often enough: Reform will hit harder than polls suggest because they weren’t on the ballot last time in vast majority of Tory seats, and they will now in all of them. The implications of this still haven’t been taken in. Lethal for Tories.

    Reform were more of a problem for the Consertives while Richard Tice was the leader in some seats if the current polling was nailed on, now Nigel Farage is the leader its become a far bigger problem for the Labour party under Keir Starmer. Just how many votes will he attract from former Labour voters who switched to UKIP first before going Conservative in 2019 while the narrative is that Labour is so far ahead in the polls they cannot possible lose and its all about whether they can achieve a record breaking majority that beats Tony Blairs result in 1997?
    On that YouGov poll - it probably didn't capture the full impact of Farage's announcement, as it was taken on that day and the next.

    Just for fun, increasing each of the changes from last time by 50%, we'd have:
    Old methodology:
    Lab 44.5, Con 16.5, RefUK 19.5
    New methodology
    Lab 38, Con 18, RefUK 18.5

    It is only a bit of fun, particularly because rounding/others means the five party changes under the new methodology add up to -3.

    This is a real nightmare for the Tories, particularly if they suffer further from "Liargate". On these figures it is a huge plus for Labour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,867
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Farooq said:

    Jeremy Hunt speaks up and it's like a breath of fresh air
    The evidence of Britain is that elections are always won from the centre ground and I think in a two-party system that will always be the case. We’ll always be a broad church, and I think that’s a good thing.

    There it is. The Conservative Party is still in there somewhere. They missed a trick in not making him leader. Too late now, just another of history's "what if"s.

    Trouble is that the Lib Dems have often tried being the centre party. It's not won them any elections. You need a large base of voters to win elections. Being on the centre won't guarantee you that.
    The LD's have always done best electorally, since the 1990's, when they have been seen to be slightly to the left of Labour, a lesson they will probably have to relearn all over again under Starmer, and challenging any of his more authoritarian policies, as they did under Blair.

    Davey will have to shift his stance a little, but that he's surprised me on the upside in this election so far.
    That was before the Greens though - LDs tried it in 2019 and lost their leader! The space is a liberal centre-right party if the tories go as cuckoo as it expected.
    An economically centre right, pro EU and socially liberal party was the LDs led by Clegg in 2015, it got 7.9% of the vote and 8 MPs
    Also worth pointing out that if the Tories continue to Tory and LDs end up as the official opposition it's a once in a lifetime chance to displace the Tories - if they put forward a sensible centre-right platform while Reform take over the Tories come 2029 they may remain the OO.
    If the LDs put forward a centre right platform they lose their SDP, social democratic wing to Labour or even the Greens and are back under 10% again as in 2015 with no Labour tactical votes for them either in their target seats.

    They won't become the OO on that. The only party that could replace the Tories as the OO to Starmer Labour is a party led by Farage, as around 30%+ will vote for a socially conservative, pro Brexit, rightwing party
    I don't think the left/right axis is very meaningful anymore to British politics. What defines a party more is its attitude to internal democracy, individual liberty and authoritarianism.

    That's why LDs can appeal to the free enterprise right, a group repelled by Brexit protectionism, while still appealing to Greens by being decentralised. It is a space between the authoritarian centralising philosophy of Labour and the reactionary social conservatism, culture war and Autarky of Reform and Conservatives.

    It isn't a vast space as most Britons don't really value freedom, and prefer the smack of firm government,, but it is one that spreads well outside of current LD support, particularly to one nation Conservatives.
    Just a shame the LibDems conspicuously fail to demonstrate or even apply much of such a philosophy to how their own party is run, nowadays.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,094

    If the Tories do parachute Him in, which flavour of milkshake do you recommend I buy?

    Vanilla, Chocolate, Banana, Strawberry or Salted Caramel?

    https://wimpy.uk.com/menus/drinks

    Not sure what you mean but I hope it is not connected to the widely condemned milk shake attack on Farage

    Its a joke. Besides Farage appears to have set up the milkshake "attack" for publicity. And it worked beautifully.
    You are a lib dem candidate joking about milkshakes attacks?
    "Milkshake attacks". The work of the milkshake Taliban? Take it easy BigG. Think instead about Labour chaos in Wales and how that might play out in the GE and deliver Rishi a hatful of seats, or maybe not.
    Good morning

    The sad part about Gething is yet again another politician, this time a labour First Minister, deciding to ignore a vonc and carry on and at the same time has received the backing of Starmer

    It will not change the GE result of a wipe out of conservative mps, but what is depressing is there seems to be no consequences for the lack of integrity amongst our leaders.

    I notice Drakeford had a furious row with his colleagues over dropping the change to Welsh children's school holiday times as he arrogantly said it was his legacy, one which he hadn't been put out to public consultation and now the Welsh government has and found it to be unpopular especially with teachers so much so it will not be revisited until after the 2026 Senedd election

    On another issue Ed Davey has come out this morning condemning labours vat raid on private schools which the Lib Dems do not support
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    ToryJim said:

    nico679 said:

    Apparently Labours manifesto will be launched next Thursday . Surely there will be a few surprises in there .

    Anything resembling a meaningful policy would be a surprise.
    You’re on good form this early in the morning !
This discussion has been closed.