With respect to party "apps" with info about specific voters at specific addresses, these are a 21st-century version of the old 20th century hard-copy voter canvassing lists. Used across the USA by Democrats, Republicans and whomever wants to contact voters on the doorstep AND via their mailbox.
Sources of information are
> official voter lists which include basic info that is public record (in USA varies from state to state) including names, addresses (residential and mailing), gender, age and previous voting history - NOT how they voted, but whether or not they voted.
> information obtained from the voter, generally via foot OR phone canvassing.
> data obtained via data-grubbing and also modelling re: likely partisanship and level of voter turnout for individual voters, generally via probability scores.
Note that level of public record disclosure varies, and also changes from time to time. For example, in WA State, one must make a specific request under state Open Records law, including providing contact info AND swearing NOT to use info for commerical (non-political) purposes. And while in the past, info provided included the voter's date of birth, now election authorities only provide age in years, because folks were (rightly) concerned about having their DOB bandied about.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes I generalize and there is some country I actually do like, for example the deep south, in hell I will be in good company......however a lot of it is banal pap, just as is pop music these days etc. Finding the gems are hard.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes, some country is brilliant. It’s a folk genre. Folk music has the downside of often being formulaic but that’s why it’s so exciting when someone mixes it up.
And look at Dura. He's almost as old as me and likes Mamamoo.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
Doesn't sound like a classic winnable swing voter...
There will obviously only be very few of them, in any case. Most voters don't have school-aged children, more than 90% of those who do have nothing to do with fee-paying schools, and a substantial fraction of the remnant minority are so rich that they're price-insensitive. Labour have clearly concluded that there's more support to be gained than lost out of this tax raid, and they are right.
@DanNeidle The best argument against VAT on private schools is that there’s no VAT on elevated house prices near good state schools.
University attendance is weighted toward the higher incomes so we should have vat on uni fees if the reason is that we should stop people buying connections. The further down the deciles you go the less likely kids are to goto uni.....seems the same to me
No, no you've got this all wrong. Limit university education to the top 5% and make it free of charge, that is the current iteration of the Conservative Party's wet dream.
I didn't suggest that at all. I merely pointed out the higher up the income scale you are the more likely you are to attend university and I don't see this as much difference apart from in scale on the vat on schools. The wealthier get the tax break of no vat. Why apply it to one but not the other or do you think these network connections aren't also made at universities?
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
Seems @MarqueeMark reflects a wider view and he is actively canvassing
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
My take from what he said was different, I thought he was saying this is going to be the not bothering election for a lot of folk whatever the colour of the rosette
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
Sounds plausible to me. Hardly anybody believes that Labour can escape the hard choices through economic growth. It's either tax hikes or more austerity.
What most voters can agree, however, is that the present state of affairs is pretty dire, and that's not down to all politicians, that's the fault of a Conservative Government.
"What is Trump’s superpower? He is no orator. He never served in uniform. He is toddler-like in his neediness, his self-centeredness, his whiny insistence that he actually won. The stories he tells are best described by Shakespeare’s Prince Hal: “These lies are like their father that begets them – gross as a mountain, open, palpable.”
No, what sets him apart is his readiness to go low. In a crowd, the man who emerges on top is often not the strongest, but the one most willing to fight dirty, to throw punches when others won’t.
As someone who loves the United States, I have reached this conclusion with reluctance, but there is no getting away from it. The attributes that attract Trump’s fans are precisely those that should be the most repulsive: his lies, his boastfulness, his cruelty. These what his supporters have in mind when they talk of his “taking the gloves off” and “saying what others won’t say” and “owning the libs”.
Incredible as it seems to outsiders, Trump’s appeal rests on his character, not his policies. Ron DeSantis contested the Republican primaries offering Trump’s platform, prepared by the same team, but with greater competence. No one wanted to know."
The VAT on private schools thing feels a bit like the pre-1997 minimum wage scaremongering to me. That is find a tax / cost to a demographic or to the economy a Labour government might bring and predict that tax / cost will cause Armageddon to scare voters. It didn't work with the Minimum wage in 1997.
One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
Indeed you should sir, and please continue.
As for enthusiasm, I wrote an article about how Green's imagined future includes an utopia and that such things inspire. Has anybody knocked in Bristol or Brighton and noted any Green loving?
@DanNeidle The best argument against VAT on private schools is that there’s no VAT on elevated house prices near good state schools.
University attendance is weighted toward the higher incomes so we should have vat on uni fees if the reason is that we should stop people buying connections. The further down the deciles you go the less likely kids are to goto uni.....seems the same to me
No, no you've got this all wrong. Limit university education to the top 5% and make it free of charge, that is the current iteration of the Conservative Party's wet dream.
I didn't suggest that at all. I merely pointed out the higher up the income scale you are the more likely you are to attend university and I don't see this as much difference apart from in scale on the vat on schools. The wealthier get the tax break of no vat. Why apply it to one but not the other or do you think these network connections aren't also made at universities?
In addition I wasn't one that benefitted from free university even though the right age for it, I just couldn't afford to go. A lot of the jobs I worked in the late 80's and early 90's I wouldn't be available now to me with no degree because its now become a filter for them. It is not because I am thick, hell I even have my name on a patent for ICI for a computer algorithm I developed
Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
You should move to Indiana (if you can cope with the wind and rain cutting through you).
Why indiana?
Why indeed? As a former resident of Indiana, can testify that the great Hoosier State is no more windy and far less rainy that England.
There was a rather inconvenient storm in Indiana, right around this time last week. Caused a delay of several hours, to an event that 400,000 people came to watch.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes I generalize and there is some country I actually do like, for example the deep south, in hell I will be in good company......however a lot of it is banal pap, just as is pop music these days etc. Finding the gems are hard.
One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."
Because Goodwin is one of the most significant figures in British academia at the moment who's not on the left.
Does it say more about British academia or the about the British right, that Goodwin should be one of the most significant figures in British academia who's not on the left?
One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."
As I listen to a bit of Fleetwood Mac during my customary Sunday dinner cooking session (one of few me times in the week unless someone comes down and turns on antiques roadshow), I reflect that there really aren’t many good campaign songs on British elections.
The Americans do them for every presidential election, particularly the Dems. We have, accidentally, a bit of D:Ream. Who apparently have vetoed use of their song by Labour this year. What others are there, if any?
There must be an Olivia Rodrigo track someone could adopt.
In USA, campaign songs are somewhat hit or miss. With perhaps the biggest hit being "When Happy Days Are Here Again" for FDR in 1932, and his next three elections.
Story behind HDAHA = FDR (and visa vers) is that at the 1932 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, at the first floor demonstration (then a convention tradition) for Roosevelt, the organist (ditto) started playing "Anchors Away" in honor of his service as assistant Navy Secretary during WW1. Which sounded too much like a dirge to his chief strategist Louis Howe, who sent out an order for the organist to play something else.
So for the next FDR demo, he played a relatively recent Broadway show tune - "Happy Days Are Here Again". Which was a big hit with Howe, the delegates AND the general public, seeing as it struck exactly the right note (ahem) for the campaign.
Don't know if Herbert Hoover had an actual campaign son in 1932. However, his unofficial song was "Brother Can You Spare a Dime?"
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes I generalize and there is some country I actually do like, for example the deep south, in hell I will be in good company......however a lot of it is banal pap, just as is pop music these days etc. Finding the gems are hard.
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
I'm sure Labour will lose votes because of VAT on private school fees. But it won't be nearly as vote losing as, say, Brexit was for the Tories. But it neither stopped the Tories from that policy nor has it prevented them from being re-elected. Until now.
There may be an "anti politics" mood among the electorate - there always is - but the polls continue to suggest reasonable turnout numbers (high 60s to mid 70s).
I suspect, as others have said, there may be an anti-politics mood but there's also a "let's kick the Tories out and have done with them" mood as well.
One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
Any policy that picks on a relatively small group of people, and makes them several thousand pounds a year worse off, not for any particular economic reason but purely for political posturing, is going to cut through. Not just with that particular group, who are obviously going to be mad about it, but also with other groups who think they might be next on the list.
There may be an "anti politics" mood among the electorate - there always is - but the polls continue to suggest reasonable turnout numbers (high 60s to mid 70s).
I suspect, as others have said, there may be an anti-politics mood but there's also a "let's kick the Tories out and have done with them" mood as well.
Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
You should move to Indiana (if you can cope with the wind and rain cutting through you).
Why indiana?
Why indeed? As a former resident of Indiana, can testify that the great Hoosier State is no more windy and far less rainy that England.
There was a rather inconvenient storm in Indiana, right around this time last week. Caused a delay of several hours, to an event that 400,000 people came to watch.
Figured it was something like that that was meant. But hardly typical Indiana weather.
Personally have lost all interest in the Indianapolis 500 since Jim Nabors sadly stopped belting out "Back Home Again in Indiana" to start the race.
Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.
Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
I love country music, it's a fairly pure musical style which requires a good singing voice. It's often a bit mawkish, homespun and sentimental but enjoyable. Much of the stuff I like goes back a while, and I will have Kenny Rodgers "The Gambler" played at my funeral. I find a lot of more recent insipid soft rock, but there are still some standouts like The Handsome Family.
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
I'm sure Labour will lose votes because of VAT on private school fees. But it won't be nearly as vote losing as, say, Brexit was for the Tories. But it neither stopped the Tories from that policy nor has it prevented them from being re-elected. Until now.
Yes.
Until now.
It's almost impossible for an opposition party to come up with a policy distinct from the Government which won't be opposed by supporters of the Government.
The question is, as always, do you win more votes by stating the policy then you lose from those who might have supported you but now won't? It's never a zero sum game.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes I generalize and there is some country I actually do like, for example the deep south, in hell I will be in good company......however a lot of it is banal pap, just as is pop music these days etc. Finding the gems are hard.
"What is Trump’s superpower? He is no orator. He never served in uniform. He is toddler-like in his neediness, his self-centeredness, his whiny insistence that he actually won. The stories he tells are best described by Shakespeare’s Prince Hal: “These lies are like their father that begets them – gross as a mountain, open, palpable.”
No, what sets him apart is his readiness to go low. In a crowd, the man who emerges on top is often not the strongest, but the one most willing to fight dirty, to throw punches when others won’t.
As someone who loves the United States, I have reached this conclusion with reluctance, but there is no getting away from it. The attributes that attract Trump’s fans are precisely those that should be the most repulsive: his lies, his boastfulness, his cruelty. These what his supporters have in mind when they talk of his “taking the gloves off” and “saying what others won’t say” and “owning the libs”.
Incredible as it seems to outsiders, Trump’s appeal rests on his character, not his policies. Ron DeSantis contested the Republican primaries offering Trump’s platform, prepared by the same team, but with greater competence. No one wanted to know."
Trump is a litmus test of moral principle for right wingers just as Corbyn was a litmus test of moral principle for left wingers. Among intelligent people, the fails equivocate, either making excuses or equivocating or instead still focusing their fire on the other side, saying they are as bad or to blame. It looks like Hannan has passed the test.
"What is Trump’s superpower? He is no orator. He never served in uniform. He is toddler-like in his neediness, his self-centeredness, his whiny insistence that he actually won. The stories he tells are best described by Shakespeare’s Prince Hal: “These lies are like their father that begets them – gross as a mountain, open, palpable.”
No, what sets him apart is his readiness to go low. In a crowd, the man who emerges on top is often not the strongest, but the one most willing to fight dirty, to throw punches when others won’t.
As someone who loves the United States, I have reached this conclusion with reluctance, but there is no getting away from it. The attributes that attract Trump’s fans are precisely those that should be the most repulsive: his lies, his boastfulness, his cruelty. These what his supporters have in mind when they talk of his “taking the gloves off” and “saying what others won’t say” and “owning the libs”.
Incredible as it seems to outsiders, Trump’s appeal rests on his character, not his policies. Ron DeSantis contested the Republican primaries offering Trump’s platform, prepared by the same team, but with greater competence. No one wanted to know."
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes I generalize and there is some country I actually do like, for example the deep south, in hell I will be in good company......however a lot of it is banal pap, just as is pop music these days etc. Finding the gems are hard.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
Any policy that picks on a relatively small group of people, and makes them several thousand pounds a year worse off, not for any particular economic reason but purely for political posturing, is going to cut through. Not just with that particular group, who are obviously going to be mad about it, but also with other groups who think they might be next on the list.
This is 2024’s fox hunting.
It also has betting implications.
Let's not pretend it will determine the vote of everyone who was thinking of voting Labour in such constituencies, but it could put off 15-20% who might go to the Lib Dems instead.
It's why I think the LDs may do better in such seats than expected, particularly in Surrey/SW London.
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
I'm sure Labour will lose votes because of VAT on private school fees. But it won't be nearly as vote losing as, say, Brexit was for the Tories. But it neither stopped the Tories from that policy nor has it prevented them from being re-elected. Until now.
The Tories gained votes from Brexit. They have collapsed by the overall weak economic situation in Europe and global inflation. As mentioned many times, the UK has outgrown the EU since full Brexit went through. Incumbents are struggling everywhere.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
I love country music, it's a fairly pure musical style which requires a good singing voice. It's often a bit mawkish, homespun and sentimental but enjoyable. Much of the stuff I like goes back a while, and I will have Kenny Rodgers "The Gambler" played at my funeral. I find a lot of more recent insipid soft rock, but there are still some standouts like The Handsome Family.
Can’t beat Shelby Lynne in my view, but maybe she’s a bit more indie leaning. Check out Woebegone or the gutwrenching Heaven’s only days down the road.
"What is Trump’s superpower? He is no orator. He never served in uniform. He is toddler-like in his neediness, his self-centeredness, his whiny insistence that he actually won. The stories he tells are best described by Shakespeare’s Prince Hal: “These lies are like their father that begets them – gross as a mountain, open, palpable.”
No, what sets him apart is his readiness to go low. In a crowd, the man who emerges on top is often not the strongest, but the one most willing to fight dirty, to throw punches when others won’t.
As someone who loves the United States, I have reached this conclusion with reluctance, but there is no getting away from it. The attributes that attract Trump’s fans are precisely those that should be the most repulsive: his lies, his boastfulness, his cruelty. These what his supporters have in mind when they talk of his “taking the gloves off” and “saying what others won’t say” and “owning the libs”.
Incredible as it seems to outsiders, Trump’s appeal rests on his character, not his policies. Ron DeSantis contested the Republican primaries offering Trump’s platform, prepared by the same team, but with greater competence. No one wanted to know."
Trump is a litmus test of moral principle for right wingers just as Corbyn was a litmus test of moral principle for left wingers. Among intelligent people, the fails equivocate, either making excuses or equivocating or instead still focusing their fire on the other side, saying they are as bad or to blame. It looks like Hannan has passed the test.
I mentioned earlier I have a friend in louisiana, actually coming to visit in july and a solid republican....she won't for trump though she has said with no prompting sadly a sample of one but heartening
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
There’s a new Eminem song about to go to #1, a flashback to Slim Shady of two decades ago, with a very funny video. 27m views in two days https://youtube.com/watch?v=22tVWwmTie8 (NSFW langauge).
But so many of the cope lines on the centre-right, "I'm not detecting any enthusiasm for Blair/Starmer", "they aren't switching to Labour", "there are lots of don't knows"... they are echoes of '97.
And whatever the weakness of Starmer compared to Blair, Sunak is feet and ankles below Major.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
The Tontine is one of my local pubs, on the east bank of the Severn, by the Iron Bridge. Ten mins walk from where I am sitting. I assume the Tontine was something to do with the bridge.
Wasn't a tontine an agreement where the last man standing got the payout, common among soldiers in the 19th century where they all chipped in?
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I have chatted to people today saying they want honesty - tell us we will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. Just tell us how much. They will respond to honesty.
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
The policy of ending state subsidies for private schools and some of the richest in the country will no doubt annoy many of the latter - especially if they are the sort of folk who wouldn't be voting Lab anyway. Who knows it might even impact results in a couple of seats - the comparison with fox hunting in 1997 was very apt. Of course Ipsos found only 18% opposed to VAT on private schools and found 2019 Con supporters 2-1 in favour. That will have shifted some in 8 months but not by that much. I'm not a fan of Streeting but his answer on the issue shot the Con fox (to coin a phrase) very neatly.
Meanwhile 90% of the electorate switch off from campaigns wittering on about something of no concern to them (also see Diane Abbott).
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Great news! You're wrong.
Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Yes, indeed. Voters aren’t serious either. They think they can have the moon on a stick, without having to pay for it.
The policy of ending state subsidies for private schools and some of the richest in the country will no doubt annoy many of the latter - especially if they are the sort of folk who wouldn't be voting Lab anyway. Who knows it might even impact results in a couple of seats - the comparison with fox hunting in 1997 was very apt. Of course Ipsos found only 18% opposed to VAT on private schools and found 2019 Con supporters 2-1 in favour. That will have shifted some in 8 months but not by that much. I'm not a fan of Streeting but his answer on the issue shot the Con fox (to coin a phrase) very neatly.
Meanwhile 90% of the electorate switch off from campaigns wittering on about something of no concern to them (also see Diane Abbott).
Politicians on all sides really need to spell it out and agree to all toe the line
These are the areas and sub area's , this is how much it will cost to properly fund them, we can either raise taxes or we can drop some things. Which do you want?
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Yes, indeed. Voters aren’t serious either. They think they can have the moon on a stick, without having to pay for it.
Yes but in their defence it is largely because this is what they keep getting told by politicians. I think both need to actually grow up but still put the blame more on politicians for telling them they can have it all
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I have chatted to people today saying they want honesty - tell us we will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. Just tell us how much. They will respond to honesty.
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
Perhaps that's why the two NI cuts didn't cut through- at some profound level, the public believes them to be phoney and would rather they were spent on patching up public services.
Me? I expect Reeves to play the 'opened the books, even worse than we imagined' card for all she can. And pin her hopes on being able to point to improvements by 2028. It's not pretty, though it is how democracy works in practice.
In the event of an infestation of black swans in the next month, flip knows how Sunak plays it.
Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
To be fair, you are never not livid.
I am often not livid....you don't consider any party political or commercial having info on who lives at an address disconcerting? Where did they get the info for a start?
What exactly do you think the electoral register is for? You can opt out (legally) of the one available to commercial organisations. If you opt out of both, don't be surprised if your credit rating drops.
It should be purely so the Returning Officer knows where to send polling cards, and for polling stations to have a record of who is expected to turn up.
Neither commercial organisations nor politicians should have access to it.
Unworkable. MPs have to be able to confirm that the person seeking their assistance is actually a constituent. I get why people might object to political parties having access but it is rigorously controlled. Also canvassing and the like would be much more annoying if they didn’t have access.
Why should anyone care if it makes canvassing more annoying....most of us people find being canvassed annoying
Many things are annoying, but still useful or beneficial in the grand scheme of things. DBS checks are annoying but rather important for example.
Potentially getting a knock on the door every few years is not a massive inconvenience.
It is something of no value to me so yes it is an inconveniece to me. Whether or not it massive is a subjective issue frankly. I prefer people not to knock on my door unless I specifically invited them and I find it a massive incovenience to have to go tell them to fuck off.
Each to their own, but I feel being in a participatory democracy comes with some reasonable expectations on the public as well as political parties. The very rare possibility of being canvassed (most people are never canvassed) is one of them.
You've got your own way around that which is to not be on the register, in which case there's nothing to really be mad about.
Because I am of the view representative democracy no long works. It worked in the 18th century where communication took days or weeks and when the world was a much less complicated place. When a person could have a reasonable grasp of both science and geopolitics.
Nowadays the world is much more complex and our representatives end up creating laws on subjects they are clueless about such as the internet which I have highlighted because it is an area I know and they are so obviously clueless about what they are doing. I suspect there are many other area's where frankly they should not be let near like bioscience.
Representative democracy is past its sell by date and we need to rethink how we are governed and I refuse any longer to give it any whiff of legitimacy by participating
Slight problem with that is Representative democracy may not be the best possible system, it is however the best one we have....
I am sure people made the same argument about absolute monarchy. Simple fact is less and less people as is shown in poll samplings have faith in politicians, or our legal system
Well they elect the politicians who make the laws and given most people don't think about politics for more than 5 minutes a day if that we need representatives we elect to do the day the day business of government and lawmaking willing to devote the time to it
"What is Trump’s superpower? He is no orator. He never served in uniform. He is toddler-like in his neediness, his self-centeredness, his whiny insistence that he actually won. The stories he tells are best described by Shakespeare’s Prince Hal: “These lies are like their father that begets them – gross as a mountain, open, palpable.”
No, what sets him apart is his readiness to go low. In a crowd, the man who emerges on top is often not the strongest, but the one most willing to fight dirty, to throw punches when others won’t.
As someone who loves the United States, I have reached this conclusion with reluctance, but there is no getting away from it. The attributes that attract Trump’s fans are precisely those that should be the most repulsive: his lies, his boastfulness, his cruelty. These what his supporters have in mind when they talk of his “taking the gloves off” and “saying what others won’t say” and “owning the libs”.
Incredible as it seems to outsiders, Trump’s appeal rests on his character, not his policies. Ron DeSantis contested the Republican primaries offering Trump’s platform, prepared by the same team, but with greater competence. No one wanted to know."
Trump is a litmus test of moral principle for right wingers just as Corbyn was a litmus test of moral principle for left wingers. Among intelligent people, the fails equivocate, either making excuses or equivocating or instead still focusing their fire on the other side, saying they are as bad or to blame. It looks like Hannan has passed the test.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I have chatted to people today saying they want honesty - tell us we will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. Just tell us how much. They will respond to honesty.
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
At what point will the Conservative Party actively endorse higher taxes? If it did, you'd get some populist chump claiming he or she could fund everything AND cut taxes and they'd get 30% of the vote (possibly).
Where I do agree is that it has been impossible for two generations to have a sensible debate about taxation - we want European (or even Scandinavian) services at American levels of personal taxation. That circle can't be squared but you and I both know as soon as anyone talks about raising taxes, the media goes off the deep end.
What it needs is the concensus @Pagan2 talks about - all parties agree publicly taxes will rise (that will never happen).
One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."
The quickest cure for that is a Labour government and the realisation that the person who would benefit most from a destroyed Tory Party is Nigel Farage, who would reunite the right in the UK under his leadership
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Great news! You're wrong.
Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
Ok, the majority of people who can vote in this election, will vote. They see the point, even if you don't.
This should be good news to you, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling in. Representative democracy is alive and well.
Why would it be good news I want the death of representative democracy
Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.
Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.
That's nonsense. I wasn't born in the early 18th or 19th centuries, to start with.
Well you aren't americans and lets face it they like country and western music so their musical taste is already in doubt
Some country & eastern U.S. actually pretty good. I don't blanket judge music genres - even rap can be good.
Yes, some country is brilliant. It’s a folk genre. Folk music has the downside of often being formulaic but that’s why it’s so exciting when someone mixes it up.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Great news! You're wrong.
Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
Ok, the majority of people who can vote in this election, will vote. They see the point, even if you don't.
This should be good news to you, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling in. Representative democracy is alive and well.
Why would it be good news I want the death of representative democracy
Just on this subject. A year ago I moved my wife and son to Finland although I still live in the UK. The determining factor was problems we had with state schooling in the UK. It wasn't actually bad, just not what we want, and this was really a problem with the structural context of education in the UK rather than the school itself. I mentioned before that the tax levels are very similar, only slightly higher in Finland.
My son finished his first school year in Finland. Without exception he has said every day is 'great'. The class size is 24. There are some troubled children but they have one on one help. In the UK he got mediocre reports and was way under the radar of the teaching staff. In Finland we just got back his report and it was exceptional in every category, the only thing that came back as 'good' was Finnish language, which was perhaps unsurprising given that it is his second language.
On the question of 'quality of life' Finland is so much better than the UK it is almost laughable. We have a brand new gym 5 minutes walk away, 2x supermarkets (one of which is 24 hours), a beach at the end of the road, sea swimming spots within 10 -30 mins cycle ride away (all on purpose built cycle paths), various protected areas of forest with paths through it (in summer), nordic ski trails in winter. A city within 20 mins walk away with a beautiful library, a massive mall, a recently landscaped town square, multiple universities, concert halls, theatres. World class restaurants. There are 2 outdoor lidos in walking distance, one olympic size swimming pool. In the winter you have indoor swimming pools with saunas and steam rooms etc. The roads have no congestion. There is very little crime, children walk around freely by themselves. There are playgrounds every few hundred meters.
We live in a desirable neighbourhood it is true but you can go and buy a flat at the bottom of the road in a 1990's block for less than 200k Euros. There are also subsidised housing and several thousand public housing flats within 5 minutes walk. Where would it be possible to find anything like this in the UK?
My very first ever work business trip was to Helsinki at the age of 22 in December of 2016. I got up, it was dark. I got a taxi to a meeting, it was dark. We broke for lunch, and the sun peeked above the horizon. I went back to the airport (in the early afternoon), it was dark.
I appreciate that there are other times of year. But it is kinda dark in winter.
If I was going to be in that part of the world, I think I would follow @Cicero and head to Estonia.
Finland in the summer, Italy in the spring and autumn, and southern Spain in the winter would suit me just fine.
That sounds lovely. If only there was some way we could be so free to move around Europe!
Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.
Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.
How did they squeeze it into the Archers?
Linda & co are putting on a commemorative event including 1940s hairstyles, readings and everything. Trust me, it had more airtime than alky Alice.
BTW, I have not yet had ANYBOBDY mention Reform. Not one.
I think they are massively over-represented in the polling.
They are. So are the greens. I think combined they're polling ~18%? They'll be lucky if they get 6% between them.
A case of "protest polling"?
Or it may be something to do with the difference between looking up and down a pollster's list of parties and selecting one of them (which pollees do) and looking up and down a list of candidates, whether in the local newspaper or at the polling station, and then selecting one. Almost nobody does the latter.
As for the Starmer-Blair comparison:
1. Blair actually enthused people. The morons thought they were voting for Camelot. The Guardian for example after he was elected said in their leader column that this was the greatest chance for a radical movement in Europe for a generation. (I remember this because it nearly made me throw up.) It was only about a year later (seriously) that idiots started observing at dinner parties that they thought he was more presentation than substance, as if this was cutting-edge commentary. Starmer is much older and probably couldn't enthuse his own dog if he sang "Walkies" in falsetto. It might be possible for an old bloke to enthuse people. Mélenchon is pretty good at it. But Starmer comes across as a prat.
2. The Major government had been going down and down in a bog of what at the time was called "sleaze". People rarely say the word "corruption" in Britain - it's not the done thing; iit might lead to a fall-off in social invitations, a bit like going on about rule by lizards. But they did say sleaze. This made it much harder for the Tories to recover in 1997 than it will be over the next five weeks. Added to that, there was the widespread view that goodness knows how, but they'd managed to steal the 1992 election and they were kind of like cartoon characters who'd run off the edge of a cliff but hadn't noticed yet. None of this applies now.
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
Doesn't sound like a classic winnable swing voter...
As approx 25% of pupils in Edinburgh go to private schools, that might be a considerable local problem.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I have chatted to people today saying they want honesty - tell us we will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. Just tell us how much. They will respond to honesty.
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
Yes, I'd like Labour to be honest and upfront and tell voters that they will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. And the Tories should do the same. But I'd also like Labour to win the GE. And if Labour says 'higher taxes', and the Tories don't (as they wouldn't), then Labour may well lose the GE.
This problem has emerged over the last 20 years or so; it didn't used to be the case. Pledge to raise taxes = pledge to lose election. Sadly.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I have chatted to people today saying they want honesty - tell us we will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. Just tell us how much. They will respond to honesty.
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
Yes, I'd like Labour to be honest and upfront and tell voters that they will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. And the Tories should do the same. But I'd also like Labour to win the GE. And if Labour says 'higher taxes', and the Tories don't (as they wouldn't), then Labour may well lose the GE.
This problem has emerged over the last 20 years or so; it didn't used to be the case. Pledge to raise taxes = pledge to lose election. Sadly.
Its the classical prisoner dilemma problem from game theory
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Great news! You're wrong.
Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
Ok, the majority of people who can vote in this election, will vote. They see the point, even if you don't.
This should be good news to you, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling in. Representative democracy is alive and well.
Why would it be good news I want the death of representative democracy
You are not making sense. You are complaining that the elected representatives don't know about the internet. Surely the answer is elected specialists? Direct democracy won't improve the situation, and if you have a dictator who knows all about DHCP he's unlikely also to know about coastal defences or the welfare system. So what do you want?
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
You’re taking the under on turnout markets?
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
Great news! You're wrong.
Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
Ok, the majority of people who can vote in this election, will vote. They see the point, even if you don't.
This should be good news to you, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling in. Representative democracy is alive and well.
Why would it be good news I want the death of representative democracy
Christ on a bike, I'd forgotten how stupid your ideas actually were. Dangerous and stupid.
I believe they would fix a lot of our current problems, your views really don't cause me a moments doubt. As usual however you don't give any arguments why any of it is wrong. Just say no we aren't doing that. You have no arguments to give possibly
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
Interesting piece on Ch4 News that Labour had 18 million Tiktok views to the Tories who had 6 million. Generally a good measure of where things are going. The Labour message is predictably CHANGE. It's smart but it's obvious. The point is that there is really nothing that the Tories can do to steal the initiative or Labour can do to blow it.
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
Doesn't sound like a classic winnable swing voter...
As approx 25% of pupils in Edinburgh go to private schools, that might be a considerable local problem.
But not among classic winnable swing voters, if the most they can offer is "I'd think about it".
It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:
Any policy that picks on a relatively small group of people, and makes them several thousand pounds a year worse off, not for any particular economic reason but purely for political posturing, is going to cut through. Not just with that particular group, who are obviously going to be mad about it, but also with other groups who think they might be next on the list.
This is 2024’s fox hunting.
Agreed.
1. Only cvnts do it.
2. Most people detest those who do it, and this has been true for a century or more.
3. Those who do it assert reasons for why it's a good thing that they should be allowed to continue doing it which are utterly and wholly specious. (The fox likes a good run, it's all about keeping the fox population in check and protecting chickens, it's not classist and lots of nurses and bricklayers do it, everyone should be allowed to do whatever they like, it's not barbaric, what do those trendy lefty opposers know about it, etc.)
BTW, I have not yet had ANYBOBDY mention Reform. Not one.
I think they are massively over-represented in the polling.
So, they're standing in your seat. What's your estimate for the % they'll achieve? 5%?
South Devon SHOULD be an ideal environment for them. Lots of oldsters, voted for Brexit.
I've seen some leaflets delivered. Just not found it turning into voters. Unless they are massively under the radar, I suspect they will be sub-5% here.
Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.
Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.
Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
Interesting piece on Ch4 News that Labour had 18 million Tiktok views to the Tories who had 6 million. Generally a good measure of where things are going. The Labour message is predictably CHANGE. It's smart but it's obvious. The point is that there is really nothing that the Tories can do to steal the initiative or Labour can do to blow it.
Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
New ABC news poll has Trump and Biden almost matching each other on favourability, just 31% for Trump and a mere 32% for Biden. Whoever wins would have the lowest favourability of any President taking the oath of office in January since poll records began. Indeed both already have lower favourables than Presidents who lost re election bids like Ford, Carter, Bush 41 and even Trump himself in 2020
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
Interesting piece on Ch4 News that Labour had 18 million Tiktok views to the Tories who had 6 million. Generally a good measure of where things are going. The Labour message is predictably CHANGE. It's smart but it's obvious. The point is that there is really nothing that the Tories can do to steal the initiative or Labour can do to blow it.
Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
only if you are on the electoral register.
We established pages back that I refuse that and no I dont care about it being illegal
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
"Services aren't going to improve because nobody will fund them" - okay. Let's assume a party put forward increasing taxes to pay for additional Services and perhaps reducing defence spending to concentrate on frontline Services. How do you imagine such a Party would do in an election?
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
I have chatted to people today saying they want honesty - tell us we will need to pay higher taxes to get better services. Just tell us how much. They will respond to honesty.
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
At what point will the Conservative Party actively endorse higher taxes? If it did, you'd get some populist chump claiming he or she could fund everything AND cut taxes and they'd get 30% of the vote (possibly).
Where I do agree is that it has been impossible for two generations to have a sensible debate about taxation - we want European (or even Scandinavian) services at American levels of personal taxation. That circle can't be squared but you and I both know as soon as anyone talks about raising taxes, the media goes off the deep end.
What it needs is the concensus @Pagan2 talks about - all parties agree publicly taxes will rise (that will never happen).
I'm not sure that's the answer either. Fundamentally, it's growth.
Does democracy still work when you have to pay ever more for less?
Bear in mind the last 250 years we've had, outside recessions, consistent growth and a decent TRR (total replacement ratio).
Very sorry to see the news of the death of Rob Burrow. A great player of the greatest game and a brave and doughty fighter against a truly hideous condition. He'll live on in the hearts of RL fans in Leeds and far beyond.
I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.
Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.
(Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.
Nobody.
I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.
(I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
Interesting piece on Ch4 News that Labour had 18 million Tiktok views to the Tories who had 6 million. Generally a good measure of where things are going. The Labour message is predictably CHANGE. It's smart but it's obvious. The point is that there is really nothing that the Tories can do to steal the initiative or Labour can do to blow it.
I'm astonished the Tories had anything like 6 million views on TikTok.
Comments
Sources of information are
> official voter lists which include basic info that is public record (in USA varies from state to state) including names, addresses (residential and mailing), gender, age and previous voting history - NOT how they voted, but whether or not they voted.
> information obtained from the voter, generally via foot OR phone canvassing.
> data obtained via data-grubbing and also modelling re: likely partisanship and level of voter turnout for individual voters, generally via probability scores.
Note that level of public record disclosure varies, and also changes from time to time. For example, in WA State, one must make a specific request under state Open Records law, including providing contact info AND swearing NOT to use info for commerical (non-political) purposes. And while in the past, info provided included the voter's date of birth, now election authorities only provide age in years, because folks were (rightly) concerned about having their DOB bandied about.
He's almost as old as me and likes Mamamoo.
Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
https://news.sky.com/story/tories-could-tumble-like-gloucestershires-cheese-chasers-but-there-is-no-mad-enthusiasm-for-labour-13145966
What most voters can agree, however, is that the present state of affairs is pretty dire, and that's not down to all politicians, that's the fault of a Conservative Government.
"What is Trump’s superpower? He is no orator. He never served in uniform. He is toddler-like in his neediness, his self-centeredness, his whiny insistence that he actually won. The stories he tells are best described by Shakespeare’s Prince Hal: “These lies are like their father that begets them – gross as a mountain, open, palpable.”
No, what sets him apart is his readiness to go low. In a crowd, the man who emerges on top is often not the strongest, but the one most willing to fight dirty, to throw punches when others won’t.
As someone who loves the United States, I have reached this conclusion with reluctance, but there is no getting away from it. The attributes that attract Trump’s fans are precisely those that should be the most repulsive: his lies, his boastfulness, his cruelty. These what his supporters have in mind when they talk of his “taking the gloves off” and “saying what others won’t say” and “owning the libs”.
Incredible as it seems to outsiders, Trump’s appeal rests on his character, not his policies. Ron DeSantis contested the Republican primaries offering Trump’s platform, prepared by the same team, but with greater competence. No one wanted to know."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/01/trumps-verdict-a-miracle-for-american-democracy-survive/
As for enthusiasm, I wrote an article about how Green's imagined future includes an utopia and that such things inspire. Has anybody knocked in Bristol or Brighton and noted any Green loving?
https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/05/12/solarpunk/
(As I do.)
Story behind HDAHA = FDR (and visa vers) is that at the 1932 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, at the first floor demonstration (then a convention tradition) for Roosevelt, the organist (ditto) started playing "Anchors Away" in honor of his service as assistant Navy Secretary during WW1. Which sounded too much like a dirge to his chief strategist Louis Howe, who sent out an order for the organist to play something else.
So for the next FDR demo, he played a relatively recent Broadway show tune - "Happy Days Are Here Again". Which was a big hit with Howe, the delegates AND the general public, seeing as it struck exactly the right note (ahem) for the campaign.
Don't know if Herbert Hoover had an actual campaign son in 1932. However, his unofficial song was "Brother Can You Spare a Dime?"
Until now.
A very pleasant one here in east London.
There may be an "anti politics" mood among the electorate - there always is - but the polls continue to suggest reasonable turnout numbers (high 60s to mid 70s).
I suspect, as others have said, there may be an anti-politics mood but there's also a "let's kick the Tories out and have done with them" mood as well.
This is 2024’s fox hunting.
Personally have lost all interest in the Indianapolis 500 since Jim Nabors sadly stopped belting out "Back Home Again in Indiana" to start the race.
Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.
The question is, as always, do you win more votes by stating the policy then you lose from those who might have supported you but now won't? It's never a zero sum game.
https://news.sky.com/story/tories-could-tumble-like-gloucestershires-cheese-chasers-but-there-is-no-mad-enthusiasm-for-labour-13145966
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law
There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
Let's not pretend it will determine the vote of everyone who was thinking of voting Labour in such constituencies, but it could put off 15-20% who might go to the Lib Dems instead.
It's why I think the LDs may do better in such seats than expected, particularly in Surrey/SW London.
27m views in two days https://youtube.com/watch?v=22tVWwmTie8 (NSFW langauge).
But so many of the cope lines on the centre-right, "I'm not detecting any enthusiasm for Blair/Starmer", "they aren't switching to Labour", "there are lots of don't knows"... they are echoes of '97.
And whatever the weakness of Starmer compared to Blair, Sunak is feet and ankles below Major.
How do you get more money to fund Services - the Lafferites would have you believe if you cut taxes, especially for the wealthy, the resulting economic growth will somehow generate more tax revenue . I don't believe that.
If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
https://www.tontinehotel.com/
https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Tontines/
That may or may not be widespread. Politicians will certainly not believe it is widespread.
Meanwhile 90% of the electorate switch off from campaigns wittering on about something of no concern to them (also see Diane Abbott).
I think they are massively over-represented in the polling.
These are the areas and sub area's , this is how much it will cost to properly fund them, we can either raise taxes or we can drop some things. Which do you want?
ELECTORAL REFORM.
Me? I expect Reeves to play the 'opened the books, even worse than we imagined' card for all she can. And pin her hopes on being able to point to improvements by 2028. It's not pretty, though it is how democracy works in practice.
In the event of an infestation of black swans in the next month, flip knows how Sunak plays it.
All around the world, it seems democracy is in peril.
Not here.
We should use our relative democratic sanity to encourage immigration from sensible centrist Americans, in H2.
"Come home!" is the message.
I recon we could add a few points to our GDP if we do it right.
Where I do agree is that it has been impossible for two generations to have a sensible debate about taxation - we want European (or even Scandinavian) services at American levels of personal taxation. That circle can't be squared but you and I both know as soon as anyone talks about raising taxes, the media goes off the deep end.
What it needs is the concensus @Pagan2 talks about - all parties agree publicly taxes will rise (that will never happen).
A constitutional crisis in the US involves the sitting President encouraging his supporters to murder elected officials including his Vice President.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/articles/c2qqwvwzp5zo
How about this ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXA6u0BaVqY
It can't be...
Surely not...
Please no...
Not AV?!!!!
Actually, maybe not. They’d never cope with the roundabouts.
A case of "protest polling"?
Or it may be something to do with the difference between looking up and down a pollster's list of parties and selecting one of them (which pollees do) and looking up and down a list of candidates, whether in the local newspaper or at the polling station, and then selecting one. Almost nobody does the latter.
As for the Starmer-Blair comparison:
1. Blair actually enthused people. The morons thought they were voting for Camelot. The Guardian for example after he was elected said in their leader column that this was the greatest chance for a radical movement in Europe for a generation. (I remember this because it nearly made me throw up.) It was only about a year later (seriously) that idiots started observing at dinner parties that they thought he was more presentation than substance, as if this was cutting-edge commentary. Starmer is much older and probably couldn't enthuse his own dog if he sang "Walkies" in falsetto. It might be possible for an old bloke to enthuse people. Mélenchon is pretty good at it. But Starmer comes across as a prat.
2. The Major government had been going down and down in a bog of what at the time was called "sleaze". People rarely say the word "corruption" in Britain - it's not the done thing; iit might lead to a fall-off in social invitations, a bit like going on about rule by lizards. But they did say sleaze. This made it much harder for the Tories to recover in 1997 than it will be over the next five weeks. Added to that, there was the widespread view that goodness knows how, but they'd managed to steal the 1992 election and they were kind of like cartoon characters who'd run off the edge of a cliff but hadn't noticed yet. None of this applies now.
But I'd also like Labour to win the GE.
And if Labour says 'higher taxes', and the Tories don't (as they wouldn't), then Labour may well lose the GE.
This problem has emerged over the last 20 years or so; it didn't used to be the case.
Pledge to raise taxes = pledge to lose election. Sadly.
1. Only cvnts do it.
2. Most people detest those who do it, and this has been true for a century or more.
3. Those who do it assert reasons for why it's a good thing that they should be allowed to continue doing it which are utterly and wholly specious. (The fox likes a good run, it's all about keeping the fox population in check and protecting chickens, it's not classist and lots of nurses and bricklayers do it, everyone should be allowed to do whatever they like, it's not barbaric, what do those trendy lefty opposers know about it, etc.)
4. The ruling class don't like it up 'em.
I've seen some leaflets delivered. Just not found it turning into voters. Unless they are massively under the radar, I suspect they will be sub-5% here.
(Note: not a subject I know a *lot* about.)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/articles/c2qqwvwzp5zo
It's not as if pollsters are just making it up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/02/zelenskiy-trump-risks-being-loser-president-if-he-imposes-bad-deal-on-ukraine
Does democracy still work when you have to pay ever more for less?
Bear in mind the last 250 years we've had, outside recessions, consistent growth and a decent TRR (total replacement ratio).