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  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    I'm impressed by our new visitor. He's hit all the neo-fascist buttons very quickly - Tommy Robinson, gay marriage, vaccines, strong old Putin. No messing about.
    However, I suspect his work is now done.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,217

    Scott_xP said:

    Swing low, sweet ban hammer...

    Why is it always gays and vaccines?
    The vaccines make you gay. Didn’t you know?

    The bit I wonder about is whether a second dose flips you back? What does it do to already gay people - do they become Liberace ? Or do they mutate into super straight?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    pigeon said:

    That was quite an impressive performance from tonight's FSB-sponsored troll farm representative. Putin worship, far right ramping, vaccine conspiracy and queer bashing, a complete greatest hits album all dashed off in ten minutes before getting banned.

    A veritable drive by shooting of complete bullshit. I thought that Dmitry Medvedev might be out on day release from the asylum for a moment, but this one didn't threaten a nuclear holocaust, so no.

    They need to pace themselves. Too much, too young these days.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    I'm impressed by our new visitor. He's hit all the neo-fascist buttons very quickly - Tommy Robinson, gay marriage, vaccines, strong old Putin. No messing about.
    However, I suspect his work is now done.

    Shhh. I need “mainstream media” and “5G” to compete my bingo card.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    Good news! People can look forward to both.
  • Can I ask right, do these Russians just think we're really thick.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    Scott_xP said:

    Swing low, sweet ban hammer...

    Why is it always gays and vaccines?
    The vaccines make you gay. Didn’t you know?

    The bit I wonder about is whether a second dose flips you back? What does it do to already gay people - do they become Liberace ? Or do they mutate into super straight?
    I well remember the first dose. My wife and I went in together, but post-jab I abandoned her for an evening of rent boys and poppers.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    edited June 2

    ping said:

    @Leon You're a man of the world...

    (Open to all the PBer's, too)

    What is the best poor persons food - in the world?

    I'm torn between:

    Mu Xu Pork (Chinese Pork, Scrambled Eggs & Mushrooms)

    and ---

    Borscht (Russian/Ukrainian/East European Beetroot soup + various additions including sour cream and lard (sometimes???!))

    There must be other contenders?!!!

    Plov? (in a similar vein to borscht) Obviously. But what else?

    Haggis!
    Parmo!
    OK. Haggis-topped Parmo.

    Yes please!
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    ohnotnow said:

    Muesli said:

    Big crowd in London yesterday for the Tommy Robinson rally. Another one on 27 July. Laurence Fox was of course there. If the tories are wiped out we will likely see a lot more of this.

    This is what Fox had to say.

    Yesterday was a huge success. Such a wonderful crowd full of hope and optimism. Let’s make this movement grow.

    Together we can make it impossible for the government to ignore us.

    We are the many. It’s an honour to be part of it with you.

    https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/1797191693701177786

    You’re a day late and a dollar rouble short for your weekend trolling duties, comrade.
    The Spectator pay in roubles now? Sad times. Or is it Vox now? I've lost track.
    I was under the impression that the Spectator’s chief troll is currently shitposting in the former USSR. Possibly the world’s worst cultural exchange scheme if true.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Another study showing potassium chloride as a partial salt substitute in diet has benefits for lowering blood pressure and mortality.
    (Efforts just to restrict dietary salt were ineffective.)

    A really cheap, effective and very low risk medical intervention.

    Salt substitution and salt-supply restriction for lowering blood pressure in elderly care facilities: a cluster-randomized trial
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02286-8
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,189

    Scott_xP said:

    Swing low, sweet ban hammer...

    Why is it always gays and vaccines?
    Probably goes down better in Texas than in Torbay, they aren't sophisticated enough to tell the difference.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    megasaur said:

    Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.

    Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.

    Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
    It's not like I think there isn't anything interesting to say about it, or the remaining participants aren't worth listening to, but the commentary is just so DIMWITTED!
    There's a Bargain Hunt D-Day special on this week apparently. #solemn #respect #neverforget
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,217
    a
    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Swing low, sweet ban hammer...

    Why is it always gays and vaccines?
    The vaccines make you gay. Didn’t you know?

    The bit I wonder about is whether a second dose flips you back? What does it do to already gay people - do they become Liberace ? Or do they mutate into super straight?
    I well remember the first dose. My wife and I went in together, but post-jab I abandoned her for an evening of rent boys and poppers.
    1) have you considered becoming a lay Methodist preacher and running the Co Op Bank?
    2) what happened after the second dose?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Scott_xP said:

    Swing low, sweet ban hammer...

    Why is it always gays and vaccines?
    The vaccines make you gay. Didn’t you know?

    The bit I wonder about is whether a second dose flips you back? What does it do to already gay people - do they become Liberace ? Or do they mutate into super straight?
    No no no, you've got it all wrong. What the vaccines actually do is alter your DNA, so that you can receive the mind altering transmissions from Bill Gates that influence you to vote Democrat and support Ukraine. Open your eyes and see the TRUTH!
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    edited June 2

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    While there are many issues that need sorting out in the public services in order to improve quality and productivity, they pretty much all need some initial capital and investment in staff development. That pump priming has to come from somewhere.

    I agree that an across the board tax would be simpler and less distorting, but all the parties have been cornered into promising not to do so. So we wind up either with stealth tax increases (ala the Tories) or capricious taxes such as VAT on school fees.

    The politicians are merely trying to give the people what they ask for, even though they know it is daft.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Muesli said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Muesli said:

    Big crowd in London yesterday for the Tommy Robinson rally. Another one on 27 July. Laurence Fox was of course there. If the tories are wiped out we will likely see a lot more of this.

    This is what Fox had to say.

    Yesterday was a huge success. Such a wonderful crowd full of hope and optimism. Let’s make this movement grow.

    Together we can make it impossible for the government to ignore us.

    We are the many. It’s an honour to be part of it with you.

    https://x.com/LozzaFox/status/1797191693701177786

    You’re a day late and a dollar rouble short for your weekend trolling duties, comrade.
    The Spectator pay in roubles now? Sad times. Or is it Vox now? I've lost track.
    I was under the impression that the Spectator’s chief troll is currently shitposting in the former USSR. Possibly the world’s worst cultural exchange scheme if true.
    Leon’s prose style and topics of interest might be about as exciting as a rail replacement bus timetable but I don’t think even he could be as bad as ChrisHughes.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Can I ask right, do these Russians just think we're really thick.

    You are if you don't understand what is happening here.

    They don't get paid for changing anybody's mind, they get paid for making posts.

    Imagine how bad the British government psy-ops are on Russian social media are and that's the equivalent of what you're seeing here.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051

    a

    biggles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Swing low, sweet ban hammer...

    Why is it always gays and vaccines?
    The vaccines make you gay. Didn’t you know?

    The bit I wonder about is whether a second dose flips you back? What does it do to already gay people - do they become Liberace ? Or do they mutate into super straight?
    I well remember the first dose. My wife and I went in together, but post-jab I abandoned her for an evening of rent boys and poppers.
    1) have you considered becoming a lay Methodist preacher and running the Co Op Bank?
    2) what happened after the second dose?
    Do your own research.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Dura_Ace said:

    megasaur said:

    Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.

    Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.

    Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
    It's not like I think there isn't anything interesting to say about it, or the remaining participants aren't worth listening to, but the commentary is just so DIMWITTED!
    There's a Bargain Hunt D-Day special on this week apparently. #solemn #respect #neverforget
    Personally I can't wait for the Love Island D-Day Special.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    Nigelb said:

    Another study showing potassium chloride as a partial salt substitute in diet has benefits for lowering blood pressure and mortality.
    (Efforts just to restrict dietary salt were ineffective.)

    A really cheap, effective and very low risk medical intervention.

    Salt substitution and salt-supply restriction for lowering blood pressure in elderly care facilities: a cluster-randomized trial
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02286-8

    There is a need to be careful in kidney disease, but a good choice for most of us.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ping said:

    Best poor people's food in the world?

    My nomination is, classic New Orleans & South Louisiana red beans and rice.

    Hard to get more basic re: ingredients AND at the same time be extremely delicious and satisfying IF cooked properly with proper seasoning.

    Had a plate of BLACK beans and rice in Old San Juan, Puerto Rico that was VERY similar; not surprising given close cultural connection between LA and PR pre-1803.

    I thought this would come up.

    I've tried beans and rice in poor places in the southern US and also southeastern Cuba (and also multiple times in the famine belt in Africa) and every time ive a)been offered it and b) eaten it) it has been really bloody disappointing.

    It's really shit poor persons food.
    YOU ARE WRONG. You suffered from proper cooking, or spicing, or God-knows-what.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.


    And raising higher rate income tax from 40% to 41% will raise how much more than that...
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Foxy said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    While there are many issues that need sorting out in the public services in order to improve quality and productivity, they pretty much all need some initial capital investment and investment in staff development. That pump priming has to come from somewhere.

    I agree that an across the board tax would be simpler and less distorting, but all the parties have been cornered into promising not to do so. So we wind up either with stealth tax increases (ala the Tories) or capricious taxes such as VAT on school fees.

    The politicians are merely trying to give the people what they ask for, even though they know it is daft.
    VAT exemption on private school fees is distorting. I am really pleased Starmer is proposing scrapping this exemption.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,217
    DougSeal said:

    Best poor people's food in the world?

    My nomination is, classic New Orleans & South Louisiana red beans and rice.

    Hard to get more basic re: ingredients AND at the same time be extremely delicious and satisfying IF cooked properly with proper seasoning.

    Had a plate of BLACK beans and rice in Old San Juan, Puerto Rico that was VERY similar; not surprising given close cultural connection between LA and PR pre-1803.

    Beans on toast.
    What it requires is

    1) someone who can actually cook
    2) has some spices and knows how to use them.

    Source: Peruvian beans&rice (or yucca) dishes, eaten on a range of places in Peru.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Cookie said:

    eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    BTW, I have not yet had ANYBOBDY mention Reform. Not one.

    I think they are massively over-represented in the polling.

    I am mentioning reform in the morning thread.

    ELECTORAL REFORM.
    Feck.

    It can't be...

    Surely not...

    Please no...

    Not AV?!!!! :hushed:
    Be careful it could be STV
    Well I for one hope it's STV rather than AV. Which is right up the namby pamby end of the electoral reform spectrum.
    STV. No thanks. A bugger's muddle of an electoral system.

    "Were you up for xyz?" would require three nights without sleep.
    That's part of the attraction, Sandy!
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2
    Dura_Ace said:

    Can I ask right, do these Russians just think we're really thick.

    You are if you don't understand what is happening here.

    They don't get paid for changing anybody's mind, they get paid for making posts.

    Imagine how bad the British government psy-ops are on Russian social media are and that's the equivalent of what you're seeing here.
    В Питере воздух чистый, нет!
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Кто свергнет правительство?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Have I missed the troll?
    A day late.
    Shame.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    megasaur said:

    Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.

    Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.

    Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
    It's not like I think there isn't anything interesting to say about it, or the remaining participants aren't worth listening to, but the commentary is just so DIMWITTED!
    There's a Bargain Hunt D-Day special on this week apparently. #solemn #respect #neverforget
    Personally I can't wait for the Love Island D-Day Special.
    For me it's Celebrity D Day landing.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,051
    Assuming they want to marinade the announcements for a day before the debate, the Tories and Labour must have announcements in the paper tomorrow, you’d think?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nova said:

    Rishi Sunak is back to his flipchart.

    https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1797300380058992648

    I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.

    Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
    He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
    Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
    Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.

    (Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
    Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
    There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.

    Nobody.

    I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.

    (I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
    ...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
    I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.

    Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
    In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
    Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
    You’re taking the under on turnout markets?

    There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
    And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
    One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.

    If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
    Great news! You're wrong.
    Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
    Ok, the majority of people who can vote in this election, will vote. They see the point, even if you don't.

    This should be good news to you, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling in. Representative democracy is alive and well.
    Why would it be good news I want the death of representative democracy
    Oh, I see, what would you have instead?
    I posted a thread header a while back
    Ohhhh, I remember this now:
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/02/04/a-suggestion-on-political-reform/

    Christ on a bike, I'd forgotten how stupid your ideas actually were. Dangerous and stupid.
    I believe they would fix a lot of our current problems, your views really don't cause me a moments doubt. As usual however you don't give any arguments why any of it is wrong. Just say no we aren't doing that. You have no arguments to give possibly
    I've been working away. Here's a point-by-point rebuttal of your insane plan

    1) What do you think people in these roles actually do all day? You seem to want to lock them in to a particular set of policies which they can't deviate from. That's a recipe for governmental sclerosis.
    Further, it completely removes the concept of joined-up government from the equation. Life doesn't fit into neat boxes like this. Sometimes an event needs to be responded to, and it'll affect multiple departments. See how Covid affected health, education, business, policing, the treasury, transport, and so on. By creating a series of fiefdoms you'll create conflict within government. That's... bad.

    2) Ok, so there's no real incentive to do a good job and be rewarded with re-election? Bin this idea.

    3) This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it's viable because there are always interesting unforeseen developments that test the law. The "tests" seem to be pre-empting the work of the judiciary, which could be problematic if something wasn't thought of and it needs to go to the judiciary anyway. What if a case falls between two tests, where passing one fails the other?
    It's a thought-provoking idea, and good communication to the public is a positive aspiration. But anybody coming into a new field always rails against jargon and usually fails to obliterate it, because it's sometimes a necessary evil. Ambiguity in the law is worse than legalese, and you mustn't allow the first in just to avoid the second.

    4) This is where things get stupid. You know that economic conditions fluctuate, right? What you're asking for here is impossible without being able to nail down the price of everything beforehand. You can't control oil prices, you can't stop a blockage in the Suez canal or a war in somewhere where certain raw materials come from or any number of unavoidable events from changing the prices of things. You can't plan economies like that. Ask the Soviets.

    5) So, after failing to allow any wiggle room in spending, you now want to close off any flexibility in the money available to a government without them immediately varying tax rates. Presumably the government needs to plan its spending in advance but households don't? Do you have any idea how difficult life would be if taxes kept changing like that? Prices on shelves leaping about, people having to recalculate corporation tax all the time. It sounds like something Kafka would come up with and no, that's not a good thing.

    6) This is where you can absolutely fuck right off. You want to take away MY right to vote and then have me earn it back by jumping through YOUR hoops? Get in the sea. Don't you understand how dangerous this is? Someone gets into power and changes the hoops and oops, all of a sudden this class of person is functionally unable to earn their right to vote. You're utterly mad.


    1) the point you neglect is currently people get given say minister of health because they are a favourite of the pm. They may know nothing about health, dont even care about health. My proposition is you elect someone that does know, has proposals to fix what they consider wrong and its not party political and voters get to choose between several potential health ministers. Yes of course events may need to be responded too such as covid which derails things but they dont happen in most parliaments

    2) the whole point of this is you arent getting lobby fodder, they serve a term just like jury service. They aren't there to get ministerial jobs they are there to give the average persons view on what is being proposed

    3) Yes there are edge cases but we have those now, using the use case scenario guides judges far more on how they are meant to interpret the law in my view than dry legislation. You can hardly argue the current way of legislating works because we know it doesn't so my view is lets try something different. The other advantage to this way is that it means we don't need people to be legal eagles to scrutinise laws incoming. As an example if the use case is "You find a gun thrown into your garden and take it to the police" what should happen. Under current law as I understand it thats statuatory offence for being in possession of a gun....under a use case example I would hope average people would say yeah we want that to happen for them to hand it in no offence

    4) Again as I said yes we have black swan events that can unbalance things however, all I suggested and maybe you misread is the policy being implements should be costed and people have a simple way of looking at the tax take. Yes things might occur that suddenly increase or decrease costs...its a dnap shot to give voters an idea

    5) Again black swan events arent normal in most governments. Yes if one occurs and we cant predict them of course a governement can say hey ukraine has been invaded or covid. I am referring to normal governement running here which is most of all our lives we just lately got hit by double whammies but thats not normal

    6) I acknowledge most contentious but no I don't want to take away your right to vote, I merely suggested that it be earnt. To be a citizen is to have rights but that also means responsibilities. I didnt think a suggestion that a mixture of tax and volunteering would be outside the purview of most that did want to vote and that the thresholds I suggested were low enough that most could easily pass them
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,897
    FF43 said:

    nova said:

    Rishi Sunak is back to his flipchart.

    https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1797300380058992648

    I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.

    Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
    Interesting article on Sue Gray, who it seems will be running the country after July 4. Including this titbit suggesting Labour has plenty of plans, even if they're not revealing the details yet:

    Work has started on about 20 bills, some in significantly more detail than others. Access talks with civil servants are in their second round.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2024/jun/02/labour-party-chief-of-staff-sue-gray

    VERY interesting article! Maybe it's time to take Labour seriously as a government of change
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    edited June 2
    Evening PB, been following this thread with interest. As has been noted by Tim, it has been a glorious day in London. I've been wondering around the leafy Western parts, and it certainly boosts morale. I would note that even by London's historically diverse standards, the demographic is incredibly multicultural, moreso than ever.

    The VAT on private school thing troubles me. I spent some unhappy teenage years at a state school with a good rep, and a few years earlier was on the receiving end of some pretty blatant social engineering from my LEA who were attempting to rescue a failing school. For this reason I always thought I'd send my own kids private if I could. This policy, along with the stagnation of wages would probably be the nail in the coffin for that. On the other hand, everything else that moves is bloody taxed so why shouldn't fancy schools be? On a societal level I can see the benefit in shifting kinds from supportive upper middle class households into the state sector. But I'd rather my own (hypothetical at this point) offspring weren't part of this. Fortunately for labour, after this 14 year shitshow I've sworn that I can never vote for the Tory party again, so my vote in this marginal is secure, I expect.

    Which brings me on to emigration. Not because labour are getting in, but the aforementioned fall of living standards and wages, coupled with poor public services. I'm not quite on Casino-level big bucks yet , but could reasonably expect to be there in a few years, and I'm not sure whether the marginal returns really work once the three figure salary mark is reached. In column B, proximity to family, and London is still one of the great cities, even if it has declined noticeably in recent years.

    An ex-colleague, late-20's SE London Asian kid done good, recently emigrated to the West coast. He was probably pulling £60k here, now I would guess must be on $200k at least. His verdict "Yeah bruv, the US is a shit place to be if you're poor, great if you're rich. I've got my own flat downtown, a new car, hot girlfriend and the girls love my accent". So there's that.
  • gettingbettergettingbetter Posts: 552
    ydoethur said:

    I am very worried whether the VAT will apply to special needs schools. We have a special needs child who was very badly affected by the lockdown restrictions and became mainly non verbal. At present at a state special needs school with an EHCP. At present unfortunately the best place to be and they are very good, but really shouldn't need to be there.
    But if all goes well there is a chance of going to a private special needs school. I would be happy to pay the fees of tgst

    Labour have said they will exempt fees for pupils with an education, health and care plan (EHCP) from the VAT rule.
    Well that sounds good thanks. But does the plan have to say that the child needs to attend a private school? Because if so the council won't say that else some parents would try to get the state to pay for it.
    Councils are trying to do that (illegally) anyway, partly due to cost and partly due to optics.

    Advice - make sure you have opened communications with a good disabilities lawyer. A threatening letter drawing the council's attention to their legal obligations and mentioning the costs involved in going to a tribunal they will lose normally works wonders.
    Well we have no need for a lawyer because our council has been fine and our case worker is excellent, even staying late to get our child's school place sorted the night before she went on holiday. But it seems from other parents that it is a complete lottery and some of them aren't much good.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited June 2
    eek said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    And raising higher rate income tax from 40% to 41% will raise how much more than that...
    The IFS say only marginally more, £2bn instead of £1.9bn.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    megasaur said:

    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
    At least some of the pheasant gets eaten (by humans).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    While there are many issues that need sorting out in the public services in order to improve quality and productivity, they pretty much all need some initial capital investment and investment in staff development. That pump priming has to come from somewhere.

    I agree that an across the board tax would be simpler and less distorting, but all the parties have been cornered into promising not to do so. So we wind up either with stealth tax increases (ala the Tories) or capricious taxes such as VAT on school fees.

    The politicians are merely trying to give the people what they ask for, even though they know it is daft.
    VAT exemption on private school fees is distorting. I am really pleased Starmer is proposing scrapping this exemption.
    The distortion encourages people to spend money on education. Education is a good thing. Is that not a distortion worth having?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,217
    Foxy said:

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    megasaur said:

    Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.

    Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.

    Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
    It's not like I think there isn't anything interesting to say about it, or the remaining participants aren't worth listening to, but the commentary is just so DIMWITTED!
    There's a Bargain Hunt D-Day special on this week apparently. #solemn #respect #neverforget
    Personally I can't wait for the Love Island D-Day Special.
    For me it's Celebrity D Day landing.
    Celebrity Big Brother D Day landing, Shirley?

    Each hour a celeb gets voted off the landing craft to struggle ashore through the carnage.

    Filmed at the same time as Top Gear D Day - featuring Clarkson in a home made Duplex drive tank, Captain Slow in a Black Prince and Hampster as a frogman.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    eek said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    And raising higher rate income tax from 40% to 41% will raise how much more than that...
    The IFS say only marginally more, £2bn instead of £1.9bn.

    The place to look for substantial sums to spend on shoring up public services isn't earned incomes. Quite apart from anything else they're going to go up through fiscal drag already. It's assets that need soaking.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Peasant food.
    Taiwanese is rice and gravy.
    It's yummy, fills the spot, and is phenomenally cheap.
    $NT5 a bowl. About 12p when I was there in the nineties.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    megasaur said:

    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
    At least some of the pheasant gets eaten (by humans).
    Almost none. They are landfill or, at best, become tinned cat food. And pheasants don't kill lambs that I know of.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    megasaur said:

    Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.

    Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.

    Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
    It's not like I think there isn't anything interesting to say about it, or the remaining participants aren't worth listening to, but the commentary is just so DIMWITTED!
    There's a Bargain Hunt D-Day special on this week apparently. #solemn #respect #neverforget
    Personally I can't wait for the Love Island D-Day Special.
    Naked Attraction

    'See that scar, that's where Jerry almost took my left bollock off with a Bouncing Betty..'
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    DougSeal said:

    Best poor people's food in the world?

    My nomination is, classic New Orleans & South Louisiana red beans and rice.

    Hard to get more basic re: ingredients AND at the same time be extremely delicious and satisfying IF cooked properly with proper seasoning.

    Had a plate of BLACK beans and rice in Old San Juan, Puerto Rico that was VERY similar; not surprising given close cultural connection between LA and PR pre-1803.

    Beans on toast.
    What it requires is

    1) someone who can actually cook
    2) has some spices and knows how to use them.

    Source: Peruvian beans&rice (or yucca) dishes, eaten on a range of places in Peru.
    Feijoada would be my nomination: national dish of Brazil, but found throughout the Portuguese speaking world. It's a pork and black bean stew served with rice, and other accompaniments which typically include fired cabbage/ spring greens, slices of orange and a pepper salsa. Utterly delicious.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,044
    megasaur said:

    megasaur said:

    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
    At least some of the pheasant gets eaten (by humans).
    Almost none. They are landfill or, at best, become tinned cat food. And pheasants don't kill lambs that I know of.
    Pheasant in tinned cat food sounds like a good idea. Let's do more of that. I am typing this of my own free will. There are no cats in this room threatening me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1797226399675134370

    The quickest cure for that is a Labour government and the realisation that the person who would benefit most from a destroyed Tory Party is Nigel Farage, who would reunite the right in the UK under his leadership
    "Vote for us because we are so crap Nigel Farage is the alternative."
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    Roger said:

    FF43 said:

    nova said:

    Rishi Sunak is back to his flipchart.

    https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1797300380058992648

    I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.

    Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
    Interesting article on Sue Gray, who it seems will be running the country after July 4. Including this titbit suggesting Labour has plenty of plans, even if they're not revealing the details yet:

    Work has started on about 20 bills, some in significantly more detail than others. Access talks with civil servants are in their second round.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2024/jun/02/labour-party-chief-of-staff-sue-gray

    VERY interesting article! Maybe it's time to take Labour seriously as a government of change
    We're not going to begin to know that until we see exactly what is being prioritised and what's in the Finance Bill. They can write as much waffle as they like about various "reforms," but ultimately they're going to have to make hard decisions about what gets paid for and by whom if they're not going to end up rolling down the path of least resistance (i.e. continuity Toryism with cosmetic alterations.)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    pigeon said:

    eek said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    And raising higher rate income tax from 40% to 41% will raise how much more than that...
    The IFS say only marginally more, £2bn instead of £1.9bn.
    The place to look for substantial sums to spend on shoring up public services isn't earned incomes. Quite apart from anything else they're going to go up through fiscal drag already. It's assets that need soaking.

    I suspect that's where Labour will look to raise revenue. They have excluded rises in NI, income tax and VAT rates, the three main revenue sources. Most of the goodness has probably been extracted from the fiscal drag wheeze. Which may leave taxes on assets as the best way to plug the inevitable fiscal black hole.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    megasaur said:

    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
    At least some of the pheasant gets eaten (by humans).
    Is it vegan???
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    Didn't Ash Regan get a bit of stick for sending her kids to private school and isn't East Lothian roughly her patch? You don't think..
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    While there are many issues that need sorting out in the public services in order to improve quality and productivity, they pretty much all need some initial capital investment and investment in staff development. That pump priming has to come from somewhere.

    I agree that an across the board tax would be simpler and less distorting, but all the parties have been cornered into promising not to do so. So we wind up either with stealth tax increases (ala the Tories) or capricious taxes such as VAT on school fees.

    The politicians are merely trying to give the people what they ask for, even though they know it is daft.
    VAT exemption on private school fees is distorting. I am really pleased Starmer is proposing scrapping this exemption.
    The distortion encourages people to spend money on education. Education is a good thing. Is that not a distortion worth having?
    It’s completely crackers that private schools are VAT free. I remember when this was first floated I was stunned because I was entirely unaware that this was the case. Why is there VAT on clothes and shoes, but not private schools? Makes no sense whatsoever.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    nova said:

    Rishi Sunak is back to his flipchart.

    https://x.com/rishisunak/status/1797300380058992648

    I don't understand how this is the 'big idea' and yet he wanted to debate Starmer 6 times.

    Clearly Labour do have plans, and plenty of them are pretty detailed. Is he really going to sit and listen to Starmer talking about what Labour plan to do for an hour, and then sum up with "see, no plans!"?
    He simultaneously says Labour would take us back to square one and destroy the economy but also that they have no plans.
    Labour do have no plans that will actually fix things, neither to be fair do the tories or lib dems. Doesn't matter which gets in the economy will still get worse
    Pretty much what I am hearing on the doorstep. There is a real anti-politics mood out there.

    (Apart from those voters who love our candidate, natch....)
    Which I made the point about earlier....politicians are held in slim regard as is our legal system these days whether enforcement (the police) or dealing with it (the judiciary etc)
    There is real skepticism about Labour. Nobody I have spoken to thinks Labour can hold the line on not increasing taxes/NI whilst improving services.

    Nobody.

    I had a guy today saying he was moving away from Labour for this very reason. He thought Labour were taking the piss.

    (I also had a life-long LibDem today say she couldn't support them now. People feel they are not getting truthful responses from politicians across the board, not just from the Tories. Hard to see turnout breaking any records.)
    ...keep plugging away if it makes you feel better..
    I'll keep posting what I find on the doorstep. It has served me well here.

    Is anyone knocking doors finding a love of politicians of any Party? I mean, really?
    In fairness, your findings are that Labour and Lib Dems are losing their voters, including lifelong voters. If this is the complete picture, then Tory 80+ majority markets are available.
    Hardly suggested that it was all. But you'd be forgiven for thinking reading pb.com that only the Tories are suffering from the anti-politics mood. There is a widespread feeling that far too many politicians of all parties are refusing to admit what needs to be said: that services aren't going to improve, because nobody will fund them. They are being taken for fools.
    You’re taking the under on turnout markets?

    There’s a serious discussion on the scope of government that needs to be had, but no-one standing appears interested in being honest that the public finances are screwed, and areas such as health and defence are going to have to keep going up.
    And I really believe the public are coming round to the same view and are wanting some honesty, but then it doesn't win elections
    One of the reason's I believe representative democracy is on its last legs tbh. Our politicians aren't serious nor is our electorate both are at fault. Politicians because they say what they feel they need to in order to get elected. The electorate because they believe it.

    If representative democracy wants to survive in my view politicians have to get together and all agree not to spout the lie that we can have all these services working great and not pay for it. I blame them more because they are meant to lead
    Great news! You're wrong.
    Well that was a lot of reasons from you...oh my mistake just an assertion with no backup
    Ok, the majority of people who can vote in this election, will vote. They see the point, even if you don't.

    This should be good news to you, Chicken Little. The sky isn't falling in. Representative democracy is alive and well.
    Why would it be good news I want the death of representative democracy
    Oh, I see, what would you have instead?
    I posted a thread header a while back
    Ohhhh, I remember this now:
    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/02/04/a-suggestion-on-political-reform/

    Christ on a bike, I'd forgotten how stupid your ideas actually were. Dangerous and stupid.
    I believe they would fix a lot of our current problems, your views really don't cause me a moments doubt. As usual however you don't give any arguments why any of it is wrong. Just say no we aren't doing that. You have no arguments to give possibly
    I've been working away. Here's a point-by-point rebuttal of your insane plan

    1) What do you think people in these roles actually do all day? You seem to want to lock them in to a particular set of policies which they can't deviate from. That's a recipe for governmental sclerosis.
    Further, it completely removes the concept of joined-up government from the equation. Life doesn't fit into neat boxes like this. Sometimes an event needs to be responded to, and it'll affect multiple departments. See how Covid affected health, education, business, policing, the treasury, transport, and so on. By creating a series of fiefdoms you'll create conflict within government. That's... bad.

    2) Ok, so there's no real incentive to do a good job and be rewarded with re-election? Bin this idea.

    3) This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it's viable because there are always interesting unforeseen developments that test the law. The "tests" seem to be pre-empting the work of the judiciary, which could be problematic if something wasn't thought of and it needs to go to the judiciary anyway. What if a case falls between two tests, where passing one fails the other?
    It's a thought-provoking idea, and good communication to the public is a positive aspiration. But anybody coming into a new field always rails against jargon and usually fails to obliterate it, because it's sometimes a necessary evil. Ambiguity in the law is worse than legalese, and you mustn't allow the first in just to avoid the second.

    4) This is where things get stupid. You know that economic conditions fluctuate, right? What you're asking for here is impossible without being able to nail down the price of everything beforehand. You can't control oil prices, you can't stop a blockage in the Suez canal or a war in somewhere where certain raw materials come from or any number of unavoidable events from changing the prices of things. You can't plan economies like that. Ask the Soviets.

    5) So, after failing to allow any wiggle room in spending, you now want to close off any flexibility in the money available to a government without them immediately varying tax rates. Presumably the government needs to plan its spending in advance but households don't? Do you have any idea how difficult life would be if taxes kept changing like that? Prices on shelves leaping about, people having to recalculate corporation tax all the time. It sounds like something Kafka would come up with and no, that's not a good thing.

    6) This is where you can absolutely fuck right off. You want to take away MY right to vote and then have me earn it back by jumping through YOUR hoops? Get in the sea. Don't you understand how dangerous this is? Someone gets into power and changes the hoops and oops, all of a sudden this class of person is functionally unable to earn their right to vote. You're utterly mad.


    1) the point you neglect is currently people get given say minister of health because they are a favourite of the pm. They may know nothing about health, dont even care about health. My proposition is you elect someone that does know, has proposals to fix what they consider wrong and its not party political and voters get to choose between several potential health ministers. Yes of course events may need to be responded too such as covid which derails things but they dont happen in most parliaments

    2) the whole point of this is you arent getting lobby fodder, they serve a term just like jury service. They aren't there to get ministerial jobs they are there to give the average persons view on what is being proposed

    3) Yes there are edge cases but we have those now, using the use case scenario guides judges far more on how they are meant to interpret the law in my view than dry legislation. You can hardly argue the current way of legislating works because we know it doesn't so my view is lets try something different. The other advantage to this way is that it means we don't need people to be legal eagles to scrutinise laws incoming. As an example if the use case is "You find a gun thrown into your garden and take it to the police" what should happen. Under current law as I understand it thats statuatory offence for being in possession of a gun....under a use case example I would hope average people would say yeah we want that to happen for them to hand it in no offence

    4) Again as I said yes we have black swan events that can unbalance things however, all I suggested and maybe you misread is the policy being implements should be costed and people have a simple way of looking at the tax take. Yes things might occur that suddenly increase or decrease costs...its a dnap shot to give voters an idea

    5) Again black swan events arent normal in most governments. Yes if one occurs and we cant predict them of course a governement can say hey ukraine has been invaded or covid. I am referring to normal governement running here which is most of all our lives we just lately got hit by double whammies but thats not normal

    6) I acknowledge most contentious but no I don't want to take away your right to vote, I merely suggested that it be earnt. To be a citizen is to have rights but that also means responsibilities. I didnt think a suggestion that a mixture of tax and volunteering would be outside the purview of most that did want to vote and that the thresholds I suggested were low enough that most could easily pass them
    The thing about making the vote dependent on having earned it is precisely that you ARE removing my right to vote. You think it's just as good that you preserve my right to EARN the vote but you are wrong because of the issue of deciding how the vote is earned. It's extremely easy to see how it can be abused to gerrymander the electorate. And that would result in insurrection.

    Let's not forget that the Chartist uprising was partly motivated over exactly this issue. The vote was restricted to people on the basis of property ownership, which is a pretty near equivalent to your tax threshold idea. Now what happens if someone decides the rules are you have to have paid £200,000 in tax or worked 70,000 hours of "volunteering" work? Congratulations, you've killed democracy. This is the kind of ratchet you must never, ever start with. It ends in revolution. That's not an improvement on our existing system.
    But at the end of the day you want to keep things going as they have been for the last forty odd years, the way that has ended us here. At least I am offering an alternative even if you only keep points 1 to 5 it would be better than our current shit show in my opinion.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Are you sure it wasn't SWP, sprayed very messily?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    megasaur said:

    megasaur said:

    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
    At least some of the pheasant gets eaten (by humans).
    Almost none. They are landfill or, at best, become tinned cat food. And pheasants don't kill lambs that I know of.
    Beaters often take a brace home.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Farooq said:

    On this counter culture trend its notable how support for gay marriage is now plummeting too.

    Seems like it should be a bigger story that support for gay marriage is dropping fast.

    Among Republicans, it dropped by 15 points in one year.

    Among Gen Z, it dropped 11 points in two years.

    For years, support for gay marriage has only trended up. Now, that trend is reversing.
    Quote
    America 2100
    @America_2100
    ·
    May 31

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1796640343279993339

    Pace yourself now. Don't stat saying "clot shot" til day 2.
    Conversations in my local yesterday.
    Much desire for a strong leader like Putin.
    Disgust evidenced with democracy.
    This is pretty nationwide now.
    I'm disgusted that anyone wants a strong leader like Putin.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from the Spectator, so a small health warning applies, but the private school policy is definitely cutting through in some of the more affluent constituencies, and not in a good way for Labour:


    Labour claims that the VAT on school fees, and ending business rate relief, will raise £1.7bn.

    You could raise slightly more money, £1.9bn, by increasing the NICs upper rate from 2% to 3%, according to the IFS "Be The Chancellor" tool. https://ifs.org.uk/election-2024/be-chancellor

    And it would have the advantage of not identifying a particular minority and given them cause to claim victimhood.
    While there are many issues that need sorting out in the public services in order to improve quality and productivity, they pretty much all need some initial capital investment and investment in staff development. That pump priming has to come from somewhere.

    I agree that an across the board tax would be simpler and less distorting, but all the parties have been cornered into promising not to do so. So we wind up either with stealth tax increases (ala the Tories) or capricious taxes such as VAT on school fees.

    The politicians are merely trying to give the people what they ask for, even though they know it is daft.
    VAT exemption on private school fees is distorting. I am really pleased Starmer is proposing scrapping this exemption.
    The distortion encourages people to spend money on education. Education is a good thing. Is that not a distortion worth having?
    It’s completely crackers that private schools are VAT free. I remember when this was first floated I was stunned because I was entirely unaware that this was the case. Why is there VAT on clothes and shoes, but not private schools? Makes no sense whatsoever.
    There isn't VAT on children's clothing, nor on private medical care (except cosmetic surgery).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon National Party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Farooq said:

    On this counter culture trend its notable how support for gay marriage is now plummeting too.

    Seems like it should be a bigger story that support for gay marriage is dropping fast.

    Among Republicans, it dropped by 15 points in one year.

    Among Gen Z, it dropped 11 points in two years.

    For years, support for gay marriage has only trended up. Now, that trend is reversing.
    Quote
    America 2100
    @America_2100
    ·
    May 31

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1796640343279993339

    Pace yourself now. Don't stat saying "clot shot" til day 2.
    Conversations in my local yesterday.
    Much desire for a strong leader like Putin.
    Disgust evidenced with democracy.
    This is pretty nationwide now.
    The nation in question being Russia
    I'm enjoying trying to imagine the scenario where at the local pub in Shoeburyness or wherever someone just randomly goes "Hey Mikhail, Dmitri, have you, fellow local people, ever wondered if we needed a strong leader like Vladimir Putin?"
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    On this counter culture trend its notable how support for gay marriage is now plummeting too.

    Seems like it should be a bigger story that support for gay marriage is dropping fast.

    Among Republicans, it dropped by 15 points in one year.

    Among Gen Z, it dropped 11 points in two years.

    For years, support for gay marriage has only trended up. Now, that trend is reversing.
    Quote
    America 2100
    @America_2100
    ·
    May 31

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1796640343279993339

    Pace yourself now. Don't stat saying "clot shot" til day 2.
    Conversations in my local yesterday.
    Much desire for a strong leader like Putin.
    Disgust evidenced with democracy.
    This is pretty nationwide now.
    I'm disgusted that anyone wants a strong leader like Putin.
    Well, one suspects our new poster's local is somewhere east of the Gulf of Finland ... where saying you don't want a strong leader might be very unwise.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon National Party.
    In the part of Wiltshire I was in that would be even less likely.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1797226399675134370

    I thought Goodwin was the kind of person whose definition of a conservative excluded Sunak, May, Cameron and possibly Johnson if it weren't for Brexitty vibes.
    Everyone's definition of a conservative excludes those people. May was touting her 'woke' credentials the other day.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    megasaur said:

    Jamarion said:

    Some background on the leadup to the foxhunting ban for the benefit of young people reading this...

    Organised foxhunting created a political movement called the Countryside Alliance which at one demo (that went along Whitehall) managed to put 400,000 supporters on the streets. That's an impressive figure and it's almost certainly accurate. They had some kind of gadget that they put across the street to count the numbers. Plus of course being rightwing they had the goodwill of the police, so it was never going to be a case of organisers claiming the attendance was X and the police claiming it was only about a quarter or a fifth of X which was par for the course on leftwing demos.

    As ban time approached, there was much talk in Tory circles of continuing to hunt foxes in defiance of the law, "looking forward to playing bridge in Brixton prison", etc., but then...guess what happened....

    Insurers made it clear they couldn't insure people taking part in unlawful actions :-)

    There was even an "invasion" of the House of Commons (the actual floor, not the gallery), which you can get away with without being tasered or shot if you're white, play polo, and are friends with a kid or two in the royal family.

    Big yawn

    I mean, sure, I feel terrible about ever having got on a horse and hunted a fox. But not so terrible I dom't have a horse at livery in Ireland and hunting plans in Pennsylvania and, wackily, Pakistan for next winter

    But the odd thing is, foxes are naturally occurring vermin and we used to kill 1 or 2 in a day, and that's bad. Whereas pheasant shoots are whacking 600 artificially bred birds a day and that's apparently fine.
    At least some of the pheasant gets eaten (by humans).
    Is it vegan???
    Only if you can guarantee that the pheasant never ate grubs or worms.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1797226399675134370

    I thought Goodwin was the kind of person whose definition of a conservative excluded Sunak, May, Cameron and possibly Johnson if it weren't for Brexitty vibes.
    Everyone's definition of a conservative excludes those people. May was touting her 'woke' credentials the other day.
    What's wrong with that?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Ain't no party like a Swindon nudist party.

    As my dear old gran used to say, God rest and keep her.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,355

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Gosh, what a hideous thought.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,574
    dixiedean said:

    Peasant food.
    Taiwanese is rice and gravy.
    It's yummy, fills the spot, and is phenomenally cheap.
    $NT5 a bowl. About 12p when I was there in the nineties.

    Green onion pancake can still be had from stalls in poorer parts of Taiwan for 20NTD. 10NTD more for the smashed egg to provide the protein.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    pigeon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    megasaur said:

    Bloody hell, the BBC appears to be having a D-Day induced stroke; so far today the Archers, Countryfile, Antiques Roadshow, Vera Lynn on BBC4, and I’d stake my life there are others I’ve missed.

    Anyway, let’s get back to sneering at Russia and their Great Patriotic War fetish.

    Brilliant woman on R4 broadcasting house this morning. Item about how the youth don't know about D Day, in the course of which it becomes clear she thinks D Day and Dunkirk were the same thing. It's no doubt available to relisten to. About 50 minutes in.
    It's not like I think there isn't anything interesting to say about it, or the remaining participants aren't worth listening to, but the commentary is just so DIMWITTED!
    There's a Bargain Hunt D-Day special on this week apparently. #solemn #respect #neverforget
    Personally I can't wait for the Love Island D-Day Special.
    Naked Attraction

    'See that scar, that's where Jerry almost took my left bollock off with a Bouncing Betty..'
    Chapeau, sir, chapeau.

    Also, Countdown, with 20 bonus points for anyone who gets Gold, Juno, Sword, Utah or Omaha. Or a Gladiators Special, in which the contestants do the wobbly assault course/travelator thingy under artillery bombardment and carrying period rifles.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    On this counter culture trend its notable how support for gay marriage is now plummeting too.

    Seems like it should be a bigger story that support for gay marriage is dropping fast.

    Among Republicans, it dropped by 15 points in one year.

    Among Gen Z, it dropped 11 points in two years.

    For years, support for gay marriage has only trended up. Now, that trend is reversing.
    Quote
    America 2100
    @America_2100
    ·
    May 31

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1796640343279993339

    Pace yourself now. Don't stat saying "clot shot" til day 2.
    Conversations in my local yesterday.
    Much desire for a strong leader like Putin.
    Disgust evidenced with democracy.
    This is pretty nationwide now.
    I'm disgusted that anyone wants a strong leader like Putin.
    Perhaps upbeat Russian pop music will change your mind

    A man like Putin
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    On this counter culture trend its notable how support for gay marriage is now plummeting too.

    Seems like it should be a bigger story that support for gay marriage is dropping fast.

    Among Republicans, it dropped by 15 points in one year.

    Among Gen Z, it dropped 11 points in two years.

    For years, support for gay marriage has only trended up. Now, that trend is reversing.
    Quote
    America 2100
    @America_2100
    ·
    May 31

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1796640343279993339

    Pace yourself now. Don't stat saying "clot shot" til day 2.
    Conversations in my local yesterday.
    Much desire for a strong leader like Putin.
    Disgust evidenced with democracy.
    This is pretty nationwide now.
    The nation in question being Russia
    I'm enjoying trying to imagine the scenario where at the local pub in Shoeburyness or wherever someone just randomly goes "Hey Mikhail, Dmitri, have you, fellow local people, ever wondered if we needed a strong leader like Vladimir Putin?"
    Not that I'm suggesting any connection but there was a PBer who relatively recently extolled the anti woke, strong leadership qualities of Putin.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Neighbourhood Plan.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    Very sorry to see the news of the death of Rob Burrow. A great player of the greatest game and a brave and doughty fighter against a truly hideous condition. He'll live on in the hearts of RL fans in Leeds and far beyond.

    Yes. Absolutely.
    People forget how tiny he was, and what a brilliant, gifted footballer. Too brave for his own good. RIP.
    I didn't know you were an RL fan.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 2
    Leon said:

    Heart of stone. Laughter. Etc


    “Yvette Cooper refuses to rule out sending asylum seekers overseas if Labour win general election –
    Shadow home secretary says Labour would examine ‘offshore processing arrangements’”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/02/starmer-sunak-migration-general-election-uk-politics-live-2-june

    I predicted EXACTLY THIS a few weeks ago. I said in the end Starmer will do a version of Rwanda because it is the only humane solution that might work. Labour will just tweak it and pretend it is something else

    Hilarious

    I'm 99% certain that Labour will be tougher on immigration than the Tories, because circumstances will arise that make that happen.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    ping said:

    ping said:

    @Leon You're a man of the world...

    (Open to all the PBer's, too)

    What is the best poor persons food - in the world?

    I'm torn between:

    Mu Xu Pork (Chinese Pork, Scrambled Eggs & Mushrooms)

    and ---

    Borscht (Russian/Ukrainian/East European Beetroot soup + various additions including sour cream and lard (sometimes???!))

    There must be other contenders?!!!

    Plov? (in a similar vein to borscht) Obviously. But what else?

    Haggis!
    I bought that months ago, the fancy Sainsbury's version.

    My god, nutritionally it's brilliant. With Neepz n' Tatties it's a complete meal!

    After us Southerners have nicked the fillets off of the carcass, we leave you highlanders with the best bits!
    It is brilliant. Organ meats are incredibly nutritious, oats and neaps aren't far behind. Scots were once appreciably taller than us Southern softies, and it's not hard to see why.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    carnforth said:

    dixiedean said:

    Peasant food.
    Taiwanese is rice and gravy.
    It's yummy, fills the spot, and is phenomenally cheap.
    $NT5 a bowl. About 12p when I was there in the nineties.

    Green onion pancake can still be had from stalls in poorer parts of Taiwan for 20NTD. 10NTD more for the smashed egg to provide the protein.
    Shandong onion cake!
    Absolutely gorgeous. I love it!!
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    FF43 said:

    I suspect that's where Labour will look to raise revenue. They have excluded rises in NI, income tax and VAT rates, the three main revenue sources. Most of the goodness has probably been extracted from the fiscal drag wheeze. Which may leave taxes on assets as the best way to plug the inevitable fiscal black hole.

    An awful lot of money could be raised just by bringing CGT rates back to parity with Income Tax. If memory serves Reeves has ruled this out, but we'll see how long that resolve lasts if and when the NHS waiting lists aren't shrinking fast enough, half the councils are preparing to declare bankruptcy, the pensions bill is still climbing at a rate of knots, and it becomes obvious that rampant economic growth ain't riding to the rescue any time soon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Dura_Ace said:

    Can I ask right, do these Russians just think we're really thick.

    You are if you don't understand what is happening here.

    They don't get paid for changing anybody's mind, they get paid for making posts.

    Imagine how bad the British government psy-ops are on Russian social media are and that's the equivalent of what you're seeing here.
    We don’t have to - we saw Rishi on TikTok.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    On this counter culture trend its notable how support for gay marriage is now plummeting too.

    Seems like it should be a bigger story that support for gay marriage is dropping fast.

    Among Republicans, it dropped by 15 points in one year.

    Among Gen Z, it dropped 11 points in two years.

    For years, support for gay marriage has only trended up. Now, that trend is reversing.
    Quote
    America 2100
    @America_2100
    ·
    May 31

    https://x.com/njhochman/status/1796640343279993339

    Pace yourself now. Don't stat saying "clot shot" til day 2.
    Conversations in my local yesterday.
    Much desire for a strong leader like Putin.
    Disgust evidenced with democracy.
    This is pretty nationwide now.
    The nation in question being Russia
    I'm enjoying trying to imagine the scenario where at the local pub in Shoeburyness or wherever someone just randomly goes "Hey Mikhail, Dmitri, have you, fellow local people, ever wondered if we needed a strong leader like Vladimir Putin?"
    Well, Alex Salmond does live down the road...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Gosh, what a hideous thought.
    Depends on if rachel from swindon is cute
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    Beans on toast.
    If you are feeling flush: put butter on the toast

    😀
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    LOL

    We found out why Russia and China can't agree on the Power of Siberia-2 gas pipeline.

    China wants to pay close to the subsidized Russian domestic price and will only commit to buying a fraction of capacity:

    https://x.com/maxseddon/status/1797360255304663377
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ

    One enormous problem facing the Tories is not just that only 8% of 18-24-year-old Brits plan to vote for them. It's that every single Gen-Z conservative I meet genuinely wants the Tory party to be destroyed."

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1797226399675134370

    I thought Goodwin was the kind of person whose definition of a conservative excluded Sunak, May, Cameron and possibly Johnson if it weren't for Brexitty vibes.
    Everyone's definition of a conservative excludes those people. May was touting her 'woke' credentials the other day.
    What's wrong with that?
    I didn't say anything was wrong with it. I said it's not conservative.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    Rishi Sunak must face questions about the fortune he earned at a hedge fund which engineered a deal at the heart of the financial crash, Labour has said, as it prepares to launch its first major attack on the prime minister ahead of the election debates.

    The party aims to turn the spotlight onto Sunak’s time before politics in the days before the first TV debate between the two leaders, after a week dominated by rows over Diane Abbott’s candidacy. On Sunday, she confirmed she would stand as Labour’s candidate.

    Key to Labour’s attempt to get back on the front foot will be to scrutinise Sunak’s time as a partner at TCI, the hedge fund which launched an activist campaign against Dutch bank ABN Amro which resulted in its sale to RBS in 2007. The takeover was later described as “an extremely risky deal” by the independent financial regulator which said it was a key factor leading to RBS’s failure.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/pm-must-face-questions-about-hedge-fund-at-heart-of-financial-crash-says-labour
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Gosh, what a hideous thought.
    Depends on if rachel from swindon is cute
    Feel free to judge for yourself (although the cutie from the twitter handle is not an accurate depiction…)

    https://buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/heres-the-woman-behind-britains-most-divisive-twitter
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited June 2
    I have thought long and hard, and come to a conclusion.

    Goats will be far more practical use than an owl. So goats for votes it is.

    One free goat for every household. Vote MoonRabbit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak must face questions about the fortune he earned at a hedge fund which engineered a deal at the heart of the financial crash, Labour has said, as it prepares to launch its first major attack on the prime minister ahead of the election debates.

    The party aims to turn the spotlight onto Sunak’s time before politics in the days before the first TV debate between the two leaders, after a week dominated by rows over Diane Abbott’s candidacy. On Sunday, she confirmed she would stand as Labour’s candidate.

    Key to Labour’s attempt to get back on the front foot will be to scrutinise Sunak’s time as a partner at TCI, the hedge fund which launched an activist campaign against Dutch bank ABN Amro which resulted in its sale to RBS in 2007. The takeover was later described as “an extremely risky deal” by the independent financial regulator which said it was a key factor leading to RBS’s failure.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/pm-must-face-questions-about-hedge-fund-at-heart-of-financial-crash-says-labour

    I really don't think focusing on Sunak's pre political life is going to be necessary. They should not be short of ammunition for political attacks.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 2
    viewcode said:

    Beans on toast.
    If you are feeling flush: put butter on the toast

    😀

    I eat baked beans on toast all the time. Nice with brown sauce.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Gosh, what a hideous thought.
    Depends on if rachel from swindon is cute
    Feel free to judge for yourself (although the cutie from the twitter handle is not an accurate depiction…)

    https://buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/heres-the-woman-behind-britains-most-divisive-twitter
    I rarely believe peoples pictures on line whether good or bad tbh
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Gosh, what a hideous thought.
    Depends on if rachel from swindon is cute
    Feel free to judge for yourself (although the cutie from the twitter handle is not an accurate depiction…)

    https://buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/heres-the-woman-behind-britains-most-divisive-twitter
    I rarely believe peoples pictures on line whether good or bad tbh
    I should hope not in your profile's case!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    No, it’s for the Sithee Nah’then Party.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak must face questions about the fortune he earned at a hedge fund which engineered a deal at the heart of the financial crash, Labour has said, as it prepares to launch its first major attack on the prime minister ahead of the election debates.

    The party aims to turn the spotlight onto Sunak’s time before politics in the days before the first TV debate between the two leaders, after a week dominated by rows over Diane Abbott’s candidacy. On Sunday, she confirmed she would stand as Labour’s candidate.

    Key to Labour’s attempt to get back on the front foot will be to scrutinise Sunak’s time as a partner at TCI, the hedge fund which launched an activist campaign against Dutch bank ABN Amro which resulted in its sale to RBS in 2007. The takeover was later described as “an extremely risky deal” by the independent financial regulator which said it was a key factor leading to RBS’s failure.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/pm-must-face-questions-about-hedge-fund-at-heart-of-financial-crash-says-labour

    I really don't think focusing on Sunak's pre political life is going to be necessary. They should not be short of ammunition for political attacks.
    Sunak should come out fighting and say "I was smart. I shorted some rubbish stock. Those idiots in Edinburgh decided to buy it and Gordon bailed them out."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    edited June 2
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak must face questions about the fortune he earned at a hedge fund which engineered a deal at the heart of the financial crash, Labour has said, as it prepares to launch its first major attack on the prime minister ahead of the election debates.

    The party aims to turn the spotlight onto Sunak’s time before politics in the days before the first TV debate between the two leaders, after a week dominated by rows over Diane Abbott’s candidacy. On Sunday, she confirmed she would stand as Labour’s candidate.

    Key to Labour’s attempt to get back on the front foot will be to scrutinise Sunak’s time as a partner at TCI, the hedge fund which launched an activist campaign against Dutch bank ABN Amro which resulted in its sale to RBS in 2007. The takeover was later described as “an extremely risky deal” by the independent financial regulator which said it was a key factor leading to RBS’s failure.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/pm-must-face-questions-about-hedge-fund-at-heart-of-financial-crash-says-labour

    I really don't think focusing on Sunak's pre political life is going to be necessary. They should not be short of ammunition for political attacks.
    Isn't the logic that the Tories are always blaming everything on the crash and the Labour administration before them? So if Mr Sunak is implicit ... or so it goes.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    kle4 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Vapour trails have formed two huge X in the sky above Bradford. A subliminal message to boost turnout.

    For the SNP? In Bradford?
    I did see a pro SNP graffto in Wiltshire once, unless there's some other meaning behind those letters.
    Swindon Nudist Party
    Gosh, what a hideous thought.
    Depends on if rachel from swindon is cute
    Feel free to judge for yourself (although the cutie from the twitter handle is not an accurate depiction…)

    https://buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/heres-the-woman-behind-britains-most-divisive-twitter
    I rarely believe peoples pictures on line whether good or bad tbh
    I should hope not in your profile's case!
    Well I picked a prettier picture than me :)
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Scott_xP said:

    Rishi Sunak must face questions about the fortune he earned at a hedge fund which engineered a deal at the heart of the financial crash, Labour has said, as it prepares to launch its first major attack on the prime minister ahead of the election debates.

    The party aims to turn the spotlight onto Sunak’s time before politics in the days before the first TV debate between the two leaders, after a week dominated by rows over Diane Abbott’s candidacy. On Sunday, she confirmed she would stand as Labour’s candidate.

    Key to Labour’s attempt to get back on the front foot will be to scrutinise Sunak’s time as a partner at TCI, the hedge fund which launched an activist campaign against Dutch bank ABN Amro which resulted in its sale to RBS in 2007. The takeover was later described as “an extremely risky deal” by the independent financial regulator which said it was a key factor leading to RBS’s failure.


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/02/pm-must-face-questions-about-hedge-fund-at-heart-of-financial-crash-says-labour

    Labour aren’t exactly on the back foot.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    Poll Ramping Alert:

    https://x.com/patrickjfl/status/1797370884501524482

    "The first voting intention poll from us at
    @focaldataHQ
    should be out tomorrow. Some interesting results!
    "
This discussion has been closed.