Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
There's a Mark Steel's in Town focussing on that. Apparently, there is no agreement even in Shrewsbury. Shroosbry, Shrowsbry and Shoosbry are all used.
The Welsh should take it back and then everyone can call it Amwythig.
Wolves fans when we played Shrewsbury Town in the cup three or so years back:
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
No, there is a timeline here and it dates from 2009 when Computer Weekly first exposed that the cases were linked. After that ministers can be expected to have known more and more as time went on, and the internal Post Office line became discredited.
In the event of a hung parliament expect C and S rather than a formal coalition.
I am sorry, but you shouldn't be taking hits off a crack pipe before posting. Look at the polling - the labour lead is widening after the GE was called. The low low quality of the tory campaign, message fragmentation and targeting of very narrow voting segments and the conservative organization in a state of disrepair. The numbers are the numbers (within a 2-3% marging of error) and this is going to be a landslide. Talk of hung parliaments is kubler-Ross grief management. Let me remind you the stages: denial, anger, negotiation, despair, acceptance.
To be fair to @Foxy , he did say "in the event". Future events have non-zero probabilities. The Kubler-Ross stuff is largely coming from Conservative supporters.
And it's a fair point to note that the polling is saying something crazy. In the British system, parties don't win elections by over twenty points. Even Maggie in 1983 only won by fifteen.
And yet... The numbers are the numbers, across many polls by multiple companies. And they are backed up by the other data we have. I think it's now OK to say that the act of calling the election hasn't caused a "minds concentrated, this is now for real" bounce for the government.
They've got five weeks, and counting.
It's worth remembering that Theresa May had a 20% lead as late as the ICM with fieldwork on 12-14th May - 25 days before polling day, and 26 days after the election was announced. We still have 36 days to go, and we're only 7 days post election announcement.
It is also worth remembering that even before the 'dementia tax' nonsense May's campaign was making a number of serious gaffes. Grammar schools and fox hunting spring to mind. The idiots behind her (looks hard at Nick Timothy) believed they were inviolable and therefore could propose a hit list of Tory wet dreams to go with what they expected to be a huge mandate.
Starmer, by contrast, seems wary of any hubris and is intent on avoiding giving new hostages to fortune. The only really silly things he's done so far are VAT on private school fees and Diane Abbott's in and out situation.
The Diane Abbott thing is definitely a screw up. It really should have been a polite we are happy to have you back but you are not well and 70 years old, there is a peerage of you retire quietly..
Should it be though? Abbott is understandably given leeway given her status as a historic figure - rightly in many senses. But what she said was egregious, it was hardly a first offence in terms of antisemitism denial, and though there was an apology, I'm not sure many on those on the wrong end of her comments think it was overly sincere. Plus, she really does hold views Labour shouldn't be associating itself with - look at what she said when Russia was invading Ukraine.
You couldn't really give her a peerage without it looking grubby in another way.
Yes, they've handled it badly. But let's not pretend this is someone who is entirely blameless getting the boot for factional reasons rather than someone who holds some pretty dismal views that are now, thankfully, not acceptable within Labour. Who Labour were in a quandary about dealing with in the harsh way might otherwise have done because she holds significance for other reasons.
Abbott's was not intended as antisemitism denial so much as claiming a special place for anti-Black racism. That is not to say it was not ill-advised or offensive but there is no mens rea as SKS might say.
Intent is difficult to judge. She apologised quite quickly - and maybe she was being truthful about it being an early draft. But I am sceptical.
The letter said this in relation to prejudice against Jews, travellers and the Irish: “It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism”
That is a terrible view. I am a ginger and have been picked on at school (and still see and her slurs against redheads in the media). But at no point would I consider those minor barbs akin to those suffered by Jews, travellers and the Irish for simply existing. Which is what the letter seems to suggests. What a ridiculous view. I appreciate that there is an argument about where race begins (and so racism - I don’t buy it, but there is an argument), but I am certain my experience as ginger is not the same as those with the characteristics noted at the top of the letter.
Each racial characteristic that suffers from prejudices has its own history of disgraceful behaviour. For blacks I would see slavery as that key original crime. For Jews the holocaust. You could play the game of rating each other’s past suffering and playing it off against each other. But what would be the point of that? I also think different forms of racism manifest themselves in the modern world in different ways. But I think I could say that without doing down different types of racism. I would have hoped that Diane Abbot could have done that too.
You need to ask yourself the question if you had a forced choice between being Jewish or black in this country, which would you choose? If one is obviously preferable to the other, she surely has a point
No one is putting armed guards outside “black” schools in Britain
There are security guards outside at least one of the schools round here and it is neither Black nor Jewish. One of the Black churches near where I used to work had two ginormous bouncers outside during services. I'm not sure what your point is but doubt it is well-founded.
Buy is it a much more common thing around mostly Jewish schools? I suspect it is.
The abuse and racist graffiti is so common that the government subsidises the security guards outside various Jewish cultural institutions.
Been going on for years.
The sons of a Rabbi I met run a brilliant graffiti removal service. They’ve had the practise... They did a nice job on a wall outside a Sikh temple not far from me.
My kids’ school, which is Jewish, has a visible police presence posted at pickup and dropoff still, sadly.
Tbh never any graffiti or anything like that; if anything the various local communities (unusually my area is about 10% Jewish and 10% Muslim, plus the usual patchwork of Christian denominations and the atheist behemoth) have always got on very well and continue to do so.
The risk is nutters from outside.
You are highly likely to be targeted by the nutters, because thay loathe the idea of different denominations getting on very well.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
I am generally quite relaxed about how other people speak but there are two things that infuriate me: one is the inappropriate use of "myself", "yourself" etc, and the other is references to percentages greater than 100 in phrases such "I gave 110%". People who do this should be killed in some cruel and unusual fashion.
Again, "myself/yourself" is quite a normal idiom among many Irish. Why so much anti-Irish prejudice?
I've found the differences in language in Ireland really fascinating. Spent an enjoyable half an hour getting to the bottom of the phrase, "on foot of," with my wife recently, and the weather forecasters manage to have very nuanced ways of getting across precisely how much rain there will be, while mostly talking about the interludes when it won't be raining.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
The former seems much rarer these days than it used to be. I’ve seen more people vomit or have sex (not at the same time) on public transport than play music out loud.”, in recent times.
The latter, like the poor, will always be with us.
I guess they could vomit and have sex at the same time, depends what they are up to.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
That's the Irish pronunciation because of the 'hidden vowel rules.'
So you've just said Irish people are morons...
And Geordies.
And Gaelic-influenced Scots Highlanders and Islanders.
Words with unstressed vowels that don't appear in the spelling are two a penny even in RP: rhythm, chasm, etc. The coolest surnames have vowels that leave no written trace but are stressed, e.g. in McEnroe.
Does Labour actually need to formally bar Diane Abbott from standing? Right now it's in the gift of the NEC, all they need to say is that Abbott is welcome to apply for the selection and then give it to Moema or Bramble. Am I being too cynical?
That would humiliate her and if they put it to a vote of the CLP she would possibly win it.
The CLP are completely out of the loop under Labour Party rules. As soon as the election was called it becomes the NEC's decision who stands in constituencies that hadn't quite picked a candidate. That's why we're expecting about five NEC members to find themselves with winnable seats.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
I am generally quite relaxed about how other people speak but there are two things that infuriate me: one is the inappropriate use of "myself", "yourself" etc, and the other is references to percentages greater than 100 in phrases such "I gave 110%". People who do this should be killed in some cruel and unusual fashion.
Why don't you like "I gave 110%"?
It's meaningless. If you gave 110% then what is the denominator in this fraction?
Can we have jail time for PB posters who get upset by the way other people talk, eat, listen to music or any other activity that they personally don't like?
As long as I don't have to share the cell with anyone who does any of those things, so be it.
Those discussions can be very revealing of how other people live/think/have learnt in life.
I remember someone on PB getting very upset by a lady calling her little girl Elspeth on the assumption that it was some sort of pretentious neologism (a reason which, in itself, I could sometimes sympathise with if it were true).
Which considerably surprised anyone from Scotland, N England, etc. etc. But that was a very benign example compared to many others on here.
I think Ealasaid is my favourite girl's name. Beautiful.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
Does Labour actually need to formally bar Diane Abbott from standing? Right now it's in the gift of the NEC, all they need to say is that Abbott is welcome to apply for the selection and then give it to Moema or Bramble. Am I being too cynical?
What evidence is there from the last decade that she would actually make a good MP? She is not the Diane Abbott of the 1990s who might have been polarising but was much sharper at the time.
"Fairness" to long standing MPs comes behind quality of MPs to the public for a party that is running on service and putting the country first. Well done, Keir.
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
The Tories really have been genius at sticking all the blame for the PO scandal on Davey. They’ve failed completely to do a similar job on Keir for having beer and curry or Angela dodging CGT, but this is one of their undoubted blame-deflection successes.
It isn't Tories you numpty, it is fact. He was PO minister ffs. He is now the leader of a major party and he has either lied or is incompetent (along with other PO ministers). If he (and his successors as ministers) didn't think that it was odd that PO sub postmasters had a percentage of criminality much much higher than the rest of the population then he is quite frankly a fecking idiot. Either that or a lazy incompetent, or was ok to go along with the conspiracy to protect the glorious institution that is our wonderful Post Office.
He knew and his successors did. He did nothing about it therefore he is an absolute fucking disgrace.
And his predecessors, but you clearly have a thing about him that is beyond reason.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
I am generally quite relaxed about how other people speak but there are two things that infuriate me: one is the inappropriate use of "myself", "yourself" etc, and the other is references to percentages greater than 100 in phrases such "I gave 110%". People who do this should be killed in some cruel and unusual fashion.
Why don't you like "I gave 110%"?
It's meaningless. If you gave 110% then what is the denominator in this fraction?
If meaningless language infuriates how can you possibly maintain an interest in politics.....
Missed opportunity that. He should have ridden straight through a cardboard box 'blue wall' like a low-budget Boris Johnson.
The LD activists in his path showing great optimism and courage though, in apparently believing him competent enough on a bike to keep them safe
He does have better balance on the bike than on the paddle board. It even looks like he might have ridden on a bicycle before.
Should we expect to see Davey on every form of human-powered transport during the election campaign? Do we need to prepare bingo sheets with scooter, skateboard, rowing boat, etc?
Sunak dribbling past cones, Starmer cooking salmon, Davey riding a bike. Who gets your vote?
If we see Davey in one of these, then I will research the Lib Dem candidate standing in my constituency and give them serious considerations.
Starmer would have to get to serious chocolate gateau levels to stay in the competition.
At least Davey looks cheerful about it all.
Being a Lib Dem is fun.....
There was some sort of poll sometime ago (I'm sure it was scientifically accurate) that showed they were the most fun cheerful people. Most people here seem to be cheerful regardless of party, although I have chided squareroot2 in the past who always seems miserable. He needs a hug.
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Lib Dem parliamentary candidate thinks Lib Dem Leader is beyond reproach.
I'm doing a small data gathering exercise on cycle parking at National Trust properties - generally fairly primitive and not very common, but they are geared up for motorised visitors and are trying to be more comprehensive. So fair play to the NT for starting on the journey - it always starts from here.
This is the "Cyclists Welcome" sign at Dunham Massey near Manchester.
It's been there for some time, and the cyclist illustrated is as plump as Boris Johnson.
They have the normal "come without a motor vehicle and get 10% off". Here on production of a cycle helmet.
Dunham Massey is close to Trans-Pennine Trail and Bridgewater Canal. Cycling in the park is for under 5s only but make use of the bike park in the main car park and enjoy a stroll across the park and gardens. As a thank you for visiting car-free, you're invited to enjoy 10% off in the café and restaurant on the production of a bike helmet.
Not much cycle parking at DM but I always seem to find a spot to lock up. Quarry Bank (as well as being fantastic in general) is better.
Tbf most NT places geared to family visits will tend to have to also be geared to motorists. There’s no way I’d get my two to Dunham on two wheels from where I am.
It's part of a series of agendas - Manc is one place where they are developing proper networks.
If you to the new RHS at Bridgewater they have about 200 cycle stands all the way down one side of the car park, and a network of walking / cycling greenways to help get there safely.
There's still stuff for them to work on, for example the surfaces are horrible, gritty and skiddy - which is tough for cycles and wheel chairs, and some gradients are wrong. When I was exploring it there's one hill on a main approach a couple of miles away with a 1:12 gradient which is unusable for many.
For NT, I think they miss how many people are often local. At Hardwick hall there are half a million within easy cycling distance - say 15km. With an aging population they also need to consider scooter and wheelchair users, for whom 5-8km is quite normal. As a very commercial organisation they will do it partly for the potential 1-10% extra visitors they might gain.
But footpath networks need to be decent and publicised, and barriers cleared out.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Lib Dem parliamentary candidate thinks Lib Dem Leader is beyond reproach.
Well that's a shock !!!!!
"Beyond reproach" is something of a stretch vs what I wrote...
I'm doing a small data gathering exercise on cycle parking at National Trust properties - generally fairly primitive and not very common, but they are geared up for motorised visitors and are trying to be more comprehensive. So fair play to the NT for starting on the journey - it always starts from here.
This is the "Cyclists Welcome" sign at Dunham Massey near Manchester.
It's been there for some time, and the cyclist illustrated is as plump as Boris Johnson.
They have the normal "come without a motor vehicle and get 10% off". Here on production of a cycle helmet.
Dunham Massey is close to Trans-Pennine Trail and Bridgewater Canal. Cycling in the park is for under 5s only but make use of the bike park in the main car park and enjoy a stroll across the park and gardens. As a thank you for visiting car-free, you're invited to enjoy 10% off in the café and restaurant on the production of a bike helmet.
It looks very low down?
There is a lovely 35 mile loop I do from my house which passes by this way - Bridgewater Canal, Transpennine Trail, some quiet lanes, Arley Hall, some more quiet lanes, Tatton Park, some more quiet lanes, Swan with Two Nicks, Dunham Massey, more quiet lanes, Bridgewater Canal. I did it last weekend and can't have passed more than 10 cars until I got to Dunham Massey. The road past the NT site at Dunham Massey was actually the busiest bit - I've never been entirely clear whether you can cycle through the NT land, so have never attempted to do so. Would certainly cut out that last bit of traffic.
You should be safe on estate roads, even opposite to the one way circuit. That's what my local place says - there are 15mph speed limits.
Ask at the kiosk. If you are a member, every time you visit and check in the local property gets £3-£4 from central funds.
But they do tend to have full size cattle grids with no bypasses.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Kirkcaldy. Milngavie.
Part of the confusion stems from recording error from institutions like Ordnance Survey. This is particularly the case with Scottish hills, to the extent that some non-local Gaelic speakers use the OS name, even if it makes no sense in context.
I'm doing a small data gathering exercise on cycle parking at National Trust properties - generally fairly primitive and not very common, but they are geared up for motorised visitors and are trying to be more comprehensive. So fair play to the NT for starting on the journey - it always starts from here.
This is the "Cyclists Welcome" sign at Dunham Massey near Manchester.
It's been there for some time, and the cyclist illustrated is as plump as Boris Johnson.
They have the normal "come without a motor vehicle and get 10% off". Here on production of a cycle helmet.
Dunham Massey is close to Trans-Pennine Trail and Bridgewater Canal. Cycling in the park is for under 5s only but make use of the bike park in the main car park and enjoy a stroll across the park and gardens. As a thank you for visiting car-free, you're invited to enjoy 10% off in the café and restaurant on the production of a bike helmet.
Not much cycle parking at DM but I always seem to find a spot to lock up. Quarry Bank (as well as being fantastic in general) is better.
Tbf most NT places geared to family visits will tend to have to also be geared to motorists. There’s no way I’d get my two to Dunham on two wheels from where I am.
Do you have a Google location or a photo of the cycle parking there I could add to my twitter thread about it, and to the WalkRideGM discord forum?
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Any idea how the good people of Essex pronounce Ugley?
There are lots of oddities like that. I don't understand why Evesham is pronounced as three syllables, but that's not as odd as Stiffkey, a delightful North Norfolk village, which for some reason the locals pronounce as Stookey.
Foreigners are worse though. Why do the Germans call Cologne, Koeln? It isn't remotely similar. And as for the Italians, when are they going to stop being silly and give Florence its proper name instead of 'Firenze'?
If MPs can be judged by how well they represent their constituents, Diane Abbott is probably the best MP in the House. See her "How I can help you" page:
Missed opportunity that. He should have ridden straight through a cardboard box 'blue wall' like a low-budget Boris Johnson.
The LD activists in his path showing great optimism and courage though, in apparently believing him competent enough on a bike to keep them safe
He does have better balance on the bike than on the paddle board. It even looks like he might have ridden on a bicycle before.
Should we expect to see Davey on every form of human-powered transport during the election campaign? Do we need to prepare bingo sheets with scooter, skateboard, rowing boat, etc?
Sunak dribbling past cones, Starmer cooking salmon, Davey riding a bike. Who gets your vote?
If we see Davey in one of these, then I will research the Lib Dem candidate standing in my constituency and give them serious considerations.
Starmer would have to get to serious chocolate gateau levels to stay in the competition.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
I am generally quite relaxed about how other people speak but there are two things that infuriate me: one is the inappropriate use of "myself", "yourself" etc, and the other is references to percentages greater than 100 in phrases such "I gave 110%". People who do this should be killed in some cruel and unusual fashion.
Typical Scots usage for the reflexive pronoun "myself" etc to be the subject or object of a sentence. eg "Myself went" or "I saw yourself"
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Only by incomers. I was born and brought up there (50s/60s) and everybody I knew said Suth'll.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Any idea how the good people of Essex pronounce Ugley?
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
Ms Cyclefree is PB's lead authority on this and she has provided the following helpful list:
'What of politicians? How did they exercise oversight? Did they exercise any? Since 1998 the Business Ministers were:-
Peter Mandelson Patricia Hewitt Alan Johnson (ex-postman) Peter Mandelson (again)
followed by 9 Business Ministers since 2010:-
Vince Cable Sajid Javid Greg Clark Andrea Leadsom Alok Sharma Kwasi Kwarteng Nadine Dorries Michelle Donelan Kemi Badenoch.
Also since 2010 there have been Ministers with specific responsibility for postal affairs:-
Ed Davey Norman Lamb Jo Swinson Jenny Willott Jo Swinson (again) Margot James (the only Minister so far to express any regret about their role in this affair) Andrew Griffiths Kelly Tolhurst Paul Scully Kevin Hollinrake. '
I would add the caveat that according to Alan Bates, Norman Lamb distinguished himself by at least trying to get to grips with the scandal, but was moved on before he could achieve anything. Davy did at least meet Bates, although to little purpose.
Cable, Davy and Swinson are all due to appear before the Inquiry, though not before the election.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Any idea how the good people of Essex pronounce Ugley?
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Any idea how the good people of Essex pronounce Ugley?
A bit like how Trump pronounces 'hugely' ?
I think it goes something like Yew-Glee, but it's Essex, so you never know.
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
As you know I am supporting one of the many groups impacted by these types of scandals. I did a FOI of our entire scandal. All ministers (from all 3 parties) act consistently. All letters go to the civil servants. The civil servants draft a reply together with supporting notes for the minister. In 100% of cases the letter that goes out is 100% the same as the draft. Some of these replies are totally barking mad. Often it appears that the original letter has not been read. It is normal to get a question you didn't ask answered. I have not seen any notes in the FOI of any minister asking questions of the civil servants. This covered a 12 year period.
This is appalling. This is why this stuff happens. The civil servants are being defensive and the ministers do not ask enough questions. They often don't know their brief well and change jobs too frequently. I discussed this with an ex-minister who was unusually an expert in their field and their comments were even more damning.
Now this doesn't excuse Davey, but it is the system and frankly the first minister in the chain is the one with least blame. By the time you are several ministers along and a scandal is brewing then responsibility and turning a blind eye becomes more obvious.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Any idea how the good people of Essex pronounce Ugley?
Ooglay ?
I think they put a Y in front of it, but I don't go to Essex much these days.
Fun* fact about Jo Swinson, the length of time for the vacancy in the Lib Dem leadership following her departure was longer than the time she was leader.
Leader for 144 days Leadership vacancy until Ed Davey was elected leader - 258 days
* okay, it might okay be fun for some very nerdy PBers but I have to provide for my tribe.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
It's a great get out when reporting to directors though:
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?" "We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time." Later... "You missed the target date - you misled us." "Well... 5% is not zero."
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
All very interesting, but did Aunt Edith come for Christmas or didn't she?
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
It's a great get out when reporting to directors though:
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?" "We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time." Later... "You missed the target date - you misled us." "Well... 5% is not zero."
Not very good directors if they fell for that dodge. Or else they pulled the same verbal tricks in their day and understand pretending surprise is part of the game.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Mildenhall, Suffolk is pronounced Mill-Den-Hall, Mildenhall, Wilts is Pronounced Mine-ul,
As noted elsewhere, many Scottish pronunciations are also a long way from their spellings: Garioch, as Gear-ee for example.
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
As you know I am supporting one of the many groups impacted by these types of scandals. I did a FOI of our entire scandal. All ministers (from all 3 parties) act consistently. All letters go to the civil servants. The civil servants draft a reply together with supporting notes for the minister. In 100% of cases the letter that goes out is 100% the same as the draft. Some of these replies are totally barking mad. Often it appears that the original letter has not been read. It is normal to get a question you didn't ask answered. I have not seen any notes in the FOI of any minister asking questions of the civil servants. This covered a 12 year period.
This is appalling. This is why this stuff happens. The civil servants are being defensive and the ministers do not ask enough questions. They often don't know their brief well and change jobs too frequently. I discussed this with an ex-minister who was unusually an expert in their field and their comments were even more damning.
Now this doesn't excuse Davey, but it is the system and frankly the first minister in the chain is the one with least blame. By the time you are several ministers along and a scandal is brewing then responsibility and turning a blind eye becomes more obvious.
Rory Stewart speaks a lot of sense on this subject - the need for an induction period for new ministers, and a minimum service time of 2 years. Because the simple reality in any new role / job is that you do not hit the ground running from day 1 knowing both all the facts and how to navigate the internal barriers and political roadblocks.
Davey didn't ask enough questions - having been in office for a couple of days a letter arrives from Alan Bates. Knowing little about the issue Davey asks his officials for how to answer.
Remember that things we Don't Know that we Don't Know are the hardest to grasp. You can't ask the right question without knowing there is a question that needs to be asked.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Cherwell - Char-well. Locals say Cherwell, snobs say Charwell.
In the event of a hung parliament expect C and S rather than a formal coalition.
I am sorry, but you shouldn't be taking hits off a crack pipe before posting. Look at the polling - the labour lead is widening after the GE was called. The low low quality of the tory campaign, message fragmentation and targeting of very narrow voting segments and the conservative organization in a state of disrepair. The numbers are the numbers (within a 2-3% marging of error) and this is going to be a landslide. Talk of hung parliaments is kubler-Ross grief management. Let me remind you the stages: denial, anger, negotiation, despair, acceptance.
To be fair to @Foxy , he did say "in the event". Future events have non-zero probabilities. The Kubler-Ross stuff is largely coming from Conservative supporters.
And it's a fair point to note that the polling is saying something crazy. In the British system, parties don't win elections by over twenty points. Even Maggie in 1983 only won by fifteen.
And yet... The numbers are the numbers, across many polls by multiple companies. And they are backed up by the other data we have. I think it's now OK to say that the act of calling the election hasn't caused a "minds concentrated, this is now for real" bounce for the government.
They've got five weeks, and counting.
It's worth remembering that Theresa May had a 20% lead as late as the ICM with fieldwork on 12-14th May - 25 days before polling day, and 26 days after the election was announced. We still have 36 days to go, and we're only 7 days post election announcement.
It is also worth remembering that even before the 'dementia tax' nonsense May's campaign was making a number of serious gaffes. Grammar schools and fox hunting spring to mind. The idiots behind her (looks hard at Nick Timothy) believed they were inviolable and therefore could propose a hit list of Tory wet dreams to go with what they expected to be a huge mandate.
Starmer, by contrast, seems wary of any hubris and is intent on avoiding giving new hostages to fortune. The only really silly things he's done so far are VAT on private school fees and Diane Abbott's in and out situation.
The Diane Abbott thing is definitely a screw up. It really should have been a polite we are happy to have you back but you are not well and 70 years old, there is a peerage of you retire quietly..
Should it be though? Abbott is understandably given leeway given her status as a historic figure - rightly in many senses. But what she said was egregious, it was hardly a first offence in terms of antisemitism denial, and though there was an apology, I'm not sure many on those on the wrong end of her comments think it was overly sincere. Plus, she really does hold views Labour shouldn't be associating itself with - look at what she said when Russia was invading Ukraine.
You couldn't really give her a peerage without it looking grubby in another way.
Yes, they've handled it badly. But let's not pretend this is someone who is entirely blameless getting the boot for factional reasons rather than someone who holds some pretty dismal views that are now, thankfully, not acceptable within Labour. Who Labour were in a quandary about dealing with in the harsh way might otherwise have done because she holds significance for other reasons.
Abbott's was not intended as antisemitism denial so much as claiming a special place for anti-Black racism. That is not to say it was not ill-advised or offensive but there is no mens rea as SKS might say.
Intent is difficult to judge. She apologised quite quickly - and maybe she was being truthful about it being an early draft. But I am sceptical.
The letter said this in relation to prejudice against Jews, travellers and the Irish: “It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism”
That is a terrible view. I am a ginger and have been picked on at school (and still see and her slurs against redheads in the media). But at no point would I consider those minor barbs akin to those suffered by Jews, travellers and the Irish for simply existing. Which is what the letter seems to suggests. What a ridiculous view. I appreciate that there is an argument about where race begins (and so racism - I don’t buy it, but there is an argument), but I am certain my experience as ginger is not the same as those with the characteristics noted at the top of the letter.
Each racial characteristic that suffers from prejudices has its own history of disgraceful behaviour. For blacks I would see slavery as that key original crime. For Jews the holocaust. You could play the game of rating each other’s past suffering and playing it off against each other. But what would be the point of that? I also think different forms of racism manifest themselves in the modern world in different ways. But I think I could say that without doing down different types of racism. I would have hoped that Diane Abbot could have done that too.
You need to ask yourself the question if you had a forced choice between being Jewish or black in this country, which would you choose? If one is obviously preferable to the other, she surely has a point
No one is putting armed guards outside “black” schools in Britain
There are security guards outside at least one of the schools round here and it is neither Black nor Jewish. One of the Black churches near where I used to work had two ginormous bouncers outside during services. I'm not sure what your point is but doubt it is well-founded.
Buy is it a much more common thing around mostly Jewish schools? I suspect it is.
It is some weeks since being driven past two local Jewish schools but I could not see any security guards, no. It may be they have hotlines to the police or other special security arrangements.
We should not blow this out of proportion. There are weekly protest marches about Gaza, and have been for months, but they are marches not riots.
Every Jewish school has a highly sophisticated system of security. But the debate is pointless. It doesn't matter whether blacks or Jews face more racism. They both have done and dismissing either is ugly. Diane Abbott has not only done this, but also said multiple racist things over the years. She is an appalling bigot and has rightly been rejected by Starmer. It took Labour way too long to do that.
Disentangling what Abbott meant from what she said is hard.
Interpretation of *some* of her remarks is a belief that Jews/Travellers/Irish have it easier, since they can “pass” for white.
Part of the issue is that members of various ethnic communities don’t think they can be racist, since racism has been applied to them. Having lived and mixed in central London, the statements that get made by some people in some groups about others would have Yaxley-Lennon climbing the curtains. Think 1950s salon bar talk.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Mildenhall, Suffolk is pronounced Mill-Den-Hall, Mildenhall, Wilts is Pronounced Mine-ul,
As noted elsewhere, many Scottish pronunciations are also a long way from their spellings: Garioch, as Gear-ee for example.
Norfolk has all the correct words within the dialect and pronunciations of everything. Everywhere else is stupid, ignorant and inferior
I'm doing a small data gathering exercise on cycle parking at National Trust properties - generally fairly primitive and not very common, but they are geared up for motorised visitors and are trying to be more comprehensive. So fair play to the NT for starting on the journey - it always starts from here.
This is the "Cyclists Welcome" sign at Dunham Massey near Manchester.
It's been there for some time, and the cyclist illustrated is as plump as Boris Johnson.
They have the normal "come without a motor vehicle and get 10% off". Here on production of a cycle helmet.
Dunham Massey is close to Trans-Pennine Trail and Bridgewater Canal. Cycling in the park is for under 5s only but make use of the bike park in the main car park and enjoy a stroll across the park and gardens. As a thank you for visiting car-free, you're invited to enjoy 10% off in the café and restaurant on the production of a bike helmet.
Not much cycle parking at DM but I always seem to find a spot to lock up. Quarry Bank (as well as being fantastic in general) is better.
Tbf most NT places geared to family visits will tend to have to also be geared to motorists. There’s no way I’d get my two to Dunham on two wheels from where I am.
Do you have a Google location or a photo of the cycle parking there I could add to my twitter thread about it, and to the WalkRideGM discord forum?
No, but is as good a reason as any for getting off my arse later.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
All very interesting, but did Aunt Edith come for Christmas or didn't she?
She did - and brought the usual bottle of Baileys.
Although the polls look terrible, Rishi has five weeks and seems to be doing his own version of Major’s soapbox.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far. Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
Isn't the Tories problem that Sunak keeps standing up and making mad announcement after mad announcement?
I’m not convinced by this received wisdom. The announcements may be cynical, I’m not sure they are “mad”. And he’s making all the running.
Time will tell. The reportage seems to show that the policy announcements horrify more people than they attract - they even get slagged off on ConHome and Mail Online. And the polls are moving away from them...
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
It's a great get out when reporting to directors though:
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?" "We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time." Later... "You missed the target date - you misled us." "Well... 5% is not zero."
Not very good directors if they fell for that dodge. Or else they pulled the same verbal tricks in their day and understand pretending surprise is part of the game.
True dat - it was the not very good ones who wanted a reassuring likelihood. The good ones wanted to understand the risks and how to mitigate them.
For the former the golden rule is never say anything less than 80% (unless you think the project needs to be pulled).
Although the polls look terrible, Rishi has five weeks and seems to be doing his own version of Major’s soapbox.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far. Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
Isn't the Tories problem that Sunak keeps standing up and making mad announcement after mad announcement?
I’m not convinced by this received wisdom. The announcements may be cynical, I’m not sure they are “mad”. And he’s making all the running.
Time will tell. The reportage seems to show that the policy announcements horrify more people than they attract - they even get slagged off on ConHome and Mail Online. And the polls are moving away from them...
I think the theory is people are crying out for policy ideas and will punish you for not having a plan, when actually you can get away with a lot of vagueness if people have a general sense you will get a grip on things.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Cherwell - Char-well. Locals say Cherwell, snobs say Charwell.
Launceston is an oddity. People think they are getting it right saying lawnston but locals call it lanson or larnson. I understand Launceston in Tasmania is pronounced as written.
If MPs can be judged by how well they represent their constituents, Diane Abbott is probably the best MP in the House. See her "How I can help you" page:
She is very popular locally and rightly so. See her increases in voteshare:
2010: +6.0% 2015: +7.9% 2017: +12.2% 2019: -4.8%
Labour nationally: 2010: -6.2% 2015: +1.5% 2017: +9.6% 2019: -7.9%
She has outperformed Labour by 12.2pp, 6.4pp, 2.6pp, and 3.1pp.
Enjoy your retirement, Diane. You've earned it.
Spent a year in Stokey back in the 2000s and she was my local MP - I didn’t see or speak to her, but she did have a good rep as a constituency MP (and no doubt kept busy with how spectacularly inept Hackney Council were at getting council tax right; if they’d had their way I’d probably still be in prison now for non-payment by tenants a decade previous).
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
As you know I am supporting one of the many groups impacted by these types of scandals. I did a FOI of our entire scandal. All ministers (from all 3 parties) act consistently. All letters go to the civil servants. The civil servants draft a reply together with supporting notes for the minister. In 100% of cases the letter that goes out is 100% the same as the draft. Some of these replies are totally barking mad. Often it appears that the original letter has not been read. It is normal to get a question you didn't ask answered. I have not seen any notes in the FOI of any minister asking questions of the civil servants. This covered a 12 year period.
This is appalling. This is why this stuff happens. The civil servants are being defensive and the ministers do not ask enough questions. They often don't know their brief well and change jobs too frequently. I discussed this with an ex-minister who was unusually an expert in their field and their comments were even more damning.
Now this doesn't excuse Davey, but it is the system and frankly the first minister in the chain is the one with least blame. By the time you are several ministers along and a scandal is brewing then responsibility and turning a blind eye becomes more obvious.
That's right, KJ. There are systemic issues, and bad actors. The PO Inquiry is trying its best to identify both.
One of the clearest systemic flaws is the relationship between Government and the PO (and other organisations which are wholly owned by the Government). There is no shortage of bad actors. Jarnail Singh, the PO's comedy lawyer, would be one of the more blatant examples but the list is long. Davy? Probably a fair way down it, but we'll know more after he has testified.
As a general rule of thumb, the later culprits are the worst because over the years it became increasingly difficult to deny that something awful had happened. The PO has been in denial throughout, and as far asI can tell is still not cooperating fully with the Inquiry. Ministers didn't stir until after the TV series aired. (Some exceptions, maybe....notably one Boris Johnson?) Don't recall hearing much from Badenoch, even since the programme.
That's a depressingly long list of ministerial suspects, but I cannot for the life of me imagine why you would look at it and immediately say to yourself 'That's it. Not voting for his/her Party.'
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Only by incomers. I was born and brought up there (50s/60s) and everybody I knew said Suth'll.
Really? I'll bow to your superior wisdom then. My understanding comes from playing for a rugby team from Nottingham against Southwell, and after the three cheers at the end our opponents politely explaining that people from Southwell actually call it Southwell, it was only the rest of the county who called it Suth'll. But possibly that was just a one-off and your experience more representative.
The YouGov England sub sample has Labour on 49%, Conservatives 21%, Reform 15% and LDs 9%.
In December 2019, the Conservatives got 47% in England, Labour were on 34% and the LDs on 12%.
That's therefore a 20.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and an 11.5% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat. The 81st safest Conservative seat is Devon South West which requires a 20.58% swing from Conservative to Labour to fall.
Stretch that out (with tactical voting) to 25% swings and a seat like Wiltshire East, the 13th safest seat, comes into view. Labour are only 11/2 to win the seat - could the Conservatives at 1/10 be the value here?
Although the polls look terrible, Rishi has five weeks and seems to be doing his own version of Major’s soapbox.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far. Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
If Sunak was facing the public and prepared to absorb some of the public anger, then that would be the case, but he's only been facing audiences where the audience isn't free to express themselves - such as in workplaces.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
It's a great get out when reporting to directors though:
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?" "We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time." Later... "You missed the target date - you misled us." "Well... 5% is not zero."
Exactly! Although in my case it came from too much immersion in probability theory. It describes reality (and all else is sloppy) but I was becoming a pain in the neck to friends and family. I keep it for here now.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
It's a great get out when reporting to directors though:
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?" "We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time." Later... "You missed the target date - you misled us." "Well... 5% is not zero."
Exactly! Although in my case it came from too much immersion in probability theory. It describes reality (and all else is sloppy) but I was becoming a pain in the neck to friends and family. I keep it for here now.
So just a pain in the neck to fellow PBers then? ;-)
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Cherwell - Char-well. Locals say Cherwell, snobs say Charwell.
Launceston is an oddity. People think they are getting it right saying lawnston but locals call it lanson or larnson. I understand Launceston in Tasmania is pronounced as written.
Although the polls look terrible, Rishi has five weeks and seems to be doing his own version of Major’s soapbox.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far. Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
If Sunak was facing the public and prepared to absorb some of the public anger, then that would be the case, but he's only been facing audiences where the audience isn't free to express themselves - such as in workplaces.
It’s easy to be rose-tinted, but you got the sense that Major really had both aptitude and appetite for taking his pitch to the people, with the thick skin of a working class Brixton kid who’d put the graft in to make it all the way up (still the best political ad ever made imvho). I recall Alan Clark’s diaries mentioning his smile and very engaging nature in person (interestingly a space where his and Chris Mullin’s diaries cross over).
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Rugeley in Staffs is pronounced Rudge-lee for some reason, Houghton-Le-Spring is pronounced Horton-Le-Spring by locals of my acquantance. Bizarre.
Mildenhall, Suffolk is pronounced Mill-Den-Hall, Mildenhall, Wilts is Pronounced Mine-ul,
As noted elsewhere, many Scottish pronunciations are also a long way from their spellings: Garioch, as Gear-ee for example.
My sister's satnav pronounces Keighley as "Kee-ley", which is not how Eddie Waring pronounced it for the Rugby League.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
All very interesting, but did Aunt Edith come for Christmas or didn't she?
She did - and brought the usual bottle of Baileys.
My Mom's Auntie Edith used to visit us for Xmas, Warninks Advocaat was a tipple of hers.
Survation will be running 4 phone polls in the 3 week run in with an eve of poll phone poll as they are 'cognisant of concerns over online panels' so there's a comparison
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Wymondham (Leics) is of course very near to the vale of Belvoir.
I've just come across a small business owner who is going to vote Green in protest to the Tories. Gen X, school educated, working class, employs about 10.
Environmentally minded (likes trees) but still - fit THAT into your model YouGov.
OTOH, would bring back the death penalty for the Sycamore Gap twats. Something to consider @CCHQ
He? Or you?
BTW I see KCIII is to plant a replacement.
Pretty much his raison d’être to plant a replacement (and a spare).
Although the polls look terrible, Rishi has five weeks and seems to be doing his own version of Major’s soapbox.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far. Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
If Sunak was facing the public and prepared to absorb some of the public anger, then that would be the case, but he's only been facing audiences where the audience isn't free to express themselves - such as in workplaces.
Indeed, I'd like to see him walk down a busy high street.
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that I will vote Conservative for the first time in three GEs, and this is largely driven not out of any love for what the Tories have become, but by the damage that I think will be done by a highly amateurish Labour Party that does not understand business. This is in spite of their better-late-than-never attempts to appeal to that constituency which have been completely underwhelming. I suspect there will be a huge majority for Labour at the GE but hope a few more people will think like I do to mitigate it.
If Johnson was still PM it would be a far more difficult choice. Over the years I have generally vacillated between LD/SDP and Conservative. While I would never vote Tory when their leader was a clown out of principle, I would also not vote LD when their leader is either a total fool or a liar - essentially the two main faults of Johnson.
Although the polls look terrible, Rishi has five weeks and seems to be doing his own version of Major’s soapbox.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far. Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
Isn't the Tories problem that Sunak keeps standing up and making mad announcement after mad announcement?
I’m not convinced by this received wisdom. The announcements may be cynical, I’m not sure they are “mad”. And he’s making all the running.
And the polls haven't shifted.
The average voter doesn't analyse every tweet, speech and Lib Dem photo opportunity stunt as closely as we do. I would want to wait a week or two before even trying to divine a polling movement from the national service announcement.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
All very interesting, but did Aunt Edith come for Christmas or didn't she?
She did - and brought the usual bottle of Baileys.
My Mom's Auntie Edith used to visit us for Xmas, Warninks Advocaat was a tipple of hers.
Oh yes. Alcoholic custard. An acquired taste which I did for a time acquire.
My pet linguistic peeve is introducing management speak into everyday conversation…..to my horror I once found myself saying “Mother, that’s not actionable….”
I went through a very annoying phase of always asking somebody to quantify their opinion on whether (or not) something would happen, ie give it a probability.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas." Me: "You think?" My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be." Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean." My mum: "I suppose so, yes." Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
It's a great get out when reporting to directors though:
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?" "We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time." Later... "You missed the target date - you misled us." "Well... 5% is not zero."
Exactly! Although in my case it came from too much immersion in probability theory. It describes reality (and all else is sloppy) but I was becoming a pain in the neck to friends and family. I keep it for here now.
Was the arrival of Aunt Edith a thing to be celebrated, or dreaded? I could read either into that conversation. But not a pain in the neck at all. If only more people thought like this. Oddly, some of my daughters - even at least one of the non-mathematical ones - instinctively think like this. Not just 'will such a thing happen?' but 'How likely?' - and want a likelihood expressed in percentages, not just a 'very'. I may have influenced them more than I give myself credit for.
Ah but wait for the manifestos - a little skirt for every table leg, jail time for elbows on tables, death penalty for vegans, mandatory Union Jack blankets for conceiving British Babies etc etc
Jail time for people who play their music on public transport without headphones, or people who chew their food with their mouths open.
A votewinner for me.
People that say "haitch" instead of aitch, or skedule instead of schedule. Absolute vote winners.
Fil um instead of film. Morons And people who say 'passed' instead of died
My nan was a spiritualist so always said 'passed' and I've taken that on from her along with calling Shrewsbury 'Shroosbry'.
Is that not the right way to say it? I’d learnt that ‘Shrowsbury’ was a bit of an affectation and not actually how locals say it.
Btw my great-nan was a spiritualist and was a noted seance leader and whatnot, travelling up and down the country. My understanding is that she genuinely believed in it all, though tbh who knows - some recent family history undertaken by my great-uncle has uncovered that there’s a strong fantasist streak in my lineage (I prefer to think I’ve inherited my dad’s side’s downrightness).
Similarly, Southwell in Nottinghamshire. Which is pronounced Suth'll by people from Nottinghamshire. Apart from by people from Southwell, who almost overenunciate South-well.
Place names are a complete minefield, like with Wymondham, Norfolk being Wind'em and Wymondham, Leicestershire being Why-mond-ham (hattip to Andrew at Britain Elects for that factoid)
Wymondham (Leics) is of course very near to the vale of Belvoir.
There's a Belvoir Hunt of course.
(Always found it a bit disappointing that there isn't a hunt named the Vale of York tbh).
That's the worst result amongst this age group I've see yet. Equal third with Reform.
Kind of astonishing - and I think leads to an IRL echo chamber as well as a virtual one, where working age people are very broadly anti-conservative, with pretty much 5/6 being LLG and probably leading to an assumption therefore that 'everyone' is voting the Tories out, from conversations over lunch breaks, pub after work and whatnot. Suspect a fair few people will end up being astonished that their seat has stayed blue come the 5th July.
Young (and other under 50) people are not anti-conservative, they are anti this chaotic government, its attacks on young people economically and its involvement in the culture wars. In many ways they are quite conservative, hard working, entrepreneurial, healthier lifestyles and wanting to conserve our environment.
Exactly. Among my peers the noticeable thing is not that there's an echo chamber of left-wing opinion but that those who in theory should be voting Tory or persuadable - good job, family, mortgage - are absolutely dead against them and would not be seen dead voting for them. Anecdotal, of course, but have quite broad acquaintances and am in a traditionally Tory bit of the country near London.
The polls bear that out. As for the reasons, it's economics (even those who have done well feel hard pressed, will have battled through high rents and static pay and have friends worse off) combined with image.
Brexit has obviously shifted to the back burner as an issue, but it's a key inflection point where a lot of younger (now getting on for middle aged) people who might have been tempted into the Tory camp in the past for financial reasons and to be left alone, thought "OK, this party really doesn't like me and my values". And the culture war stuff since and endless attempts to "own the libs" and slag off the young has crystalised that.
As people used to say with Corbyn, if you look like you hate the country, don't expect it to vote for you. At the moment the Tories look like they hate anyone Under 50 who is more liberal than the Daily Mail comments section.
So don't expect them to vote for you - and that doesn't just include 'woke' students but management consultants who would normally be quite right-wing on policy, but won't vote for a party who sound like they want to turn Britain into a 1950s theme park.
Hello hello hello hello hello hello hello. Sorry just slipped into your echo chamber chamber chamber.
There is polling evidence for the Brexit issue, it's dropped in salience according to the trends in the YouGov "what are the top three issues" question, but it's dropped much more among Leave voters than Remain voters. From memory 9% of Leavers think it's one of the top three, 29% of Remainers do. That could lead to Leave voters feeling that Brexit's a done thing and moving on to vote on a wider range of issues and some Remain voters still feeling hurt over the referendum vote and not touching the Tories with a bargepole.
I am probably going against the general flow, but I voted LD in the last two GEs because of Brexit. I won't be this time because I believe Ed Davy knew a lot more about the PO scandal than he and his supporters claim, and I am genuinely terrified of a Labour landslide. I don't like the Tories as they are now, but the Labour Party is the party of the public sector and nothing else ( as for the 150 signatures of the so-called business people/useful idiots, this should be put in context of there being four million limited companies in UK - do the maths!)
So you'll be voting for the party that eventually knew a lot more about the PO scandal than Ed Davey ever did, and yet for a decade connived to try and put the issue and compensation into the long grass until ITV made it into prime TV news this year.
Both major parties knew lots and shame on them. Only one party has a party leader who was PO minister for two years and has weaselled his way out of scrutiny. I suspect he probably coached Vennells.
Question. You say Davey has "weaselled his way out of scrutiny". The opposite is true. He has had all the scrutiny, and has accounted for his actions.
Where is the scrutiny on Badenoch? Or on any of the previous Tory ministers? Where is their accountability? Or their apology?
Just so we're clear, your reaction to the Post Office outrage is that you are going to vote for the party who have been solely in government covering this up for 9 years, who have issued zero apology for their personal actions, who gave Vennels a CBE, who have done everything they can not to accept there is an issue, who have delayed and delayed and delayed paying any compensation to the victims?
You're voting Tory in outrage of the PO scandal? Just so we're clear.
Quite frankly I couldn't give a flying fuck if you are clear or not as you are an apologist for Davy, but here goes an explanation: I will not vote LD this time because their leader should resign because he knew, and he is a party leader . Simple enough for you?
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
I didn't ask whether you would vote LibDem. You are clear on that topic.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
As you know I am supporting one of the many groups impacted by these types of scandals. I did a FOI of our entire scandal. All ministers (from all 3 parties) act consistently. All letters go to the civil servants. The civil servants draft a reply together with supporting notes for the minister. In 100% of cases the letter that goes out is 100% the same as the draft. Some of these replies are totally barking mad. Often it appears that the original letter has not been read. It is normal to get a question you didn't ask answered. I have not seen any notes in the FOI of any minister asking questions of the civil servants. This covered a 12 year period.
This is appalling. This is why this stuff happens. The civil servants are being defensive and the ministers do not ask enough questions. They often don't know their brief well and change jobs too frequently. I discussed this with an ex-minister who was unusually an expert in their field and their comments were even more damning.
Now this doesn't excuse Davey, but it is the system and frankly the first minister in the chain is the one with least blame. By the time you are several ministers along and a scandal is brewing then responsibility and turning a blind eye becomes more obvious.
That's right, KJ. There are systemic issues, and bad actors. The PO Inquiry is trying its best to identify both.
One of the clearest systemic flaws is the relationship between Government and the PO (and other organisations which are wholly owned by the Government). There is no shortage of bad actors. Jarnail Singh, the PO's comedy lawyer, would be one of the more blatant examples but the list is long. Davy? Probably a fair way down it, but we'll know more after he has testified.
As a general rule of thumb, the later culprits are the worst because over the years it became increasingly difficult to deny that something awful had happened. The PO has been in denial throughout, and as far asI can tell is still not cooperating fully with the Inquiry. Ministers didn't stir until after the TV series aired. (Some exceptions, maybe....notably one Boris Johnson?) Don't recall hearing much from Badenoch, even since the programme.
That's a depressingly long list of ministerial suspects, but I cannot for the life of me imagine why you would look at it and immediately say to yourself 'That's it. Not voting for his/her Party.'
They all have dirty hands.
There is also the problem that some in the Civil Service do not like Ministers questioning their version of things. The default is for ministers to accept what they are told as The Truth. Not accepting is seen as Hostile Behaviour.
Comments
To "Baxterise" (or "Baxterize") a poll is to feed it into Electoral Calculus https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll.html and get a seat prediction
"You're Welsh, and you know you are" (repeat) No, there is a timeline here and it dates from 2009 when Computer Weekly first exposed that the cases were linked. After that ministers can be expected to have known more and more as time went on, and the internal Post Office line became discredited.
I've found the differences in language in Ireland really fascinating. Spent an enjoyable half an hour getting to the bottom of the phrase, "on foot of," with my wife recently, and the weather forecasters manage to have very nuanced ways of getting across precisely how much rain there will be, while mostly talking about the interludes when it won't be raining.
The coolest surnames have vowels that leave no written trace but are stressed, e.g. in McEnroe.
Your attempt to create equivalence with Badenoch is ridiculous as she is not a party leader.
I would like intense scrutiny of all of them. I would like any that are proven to have covered things up to resign their seats or possibly go to jail. I would like them to experience some of the misery that the sub postmasters have had to endure
"Fairness" to long standing MPs comes behind quality of MPs to the public for a party that is running on service and putting the country first. Well done, Keir.
Wohlstandsverwahrlosung
In the news because of rich young people singing far right slogans on Sylt.
Well that's a shock !!!!!
If you to the new RHS at Bridgewater they have about 200 cycle stands all the way down one side of the car park, and a network of walking / cycling greenways to help get there safely.
There's still stuff for them to work on, for example the surfaces are horrible, gritty and skiddy - which is tough for cycles and wheel chairs, and some gradients are wrong. When I was exploring it there's one hill on a main approach a couple of miles away with a 1:12 gradient which is unusable for many.
For NT, I think they miss how many people are often local. At Hardwick hall there are half a million within easy cycling distance - say 15km. With an aging population they also need to consider scooter and wheelchair users, for whom 5-8km is quite normal. As a very commercial organisation they will do it partly for the potential 1-10% extra visitors they might gain.
But footpath networks need to be decent and publicised, and barriers cleared out.
To give them their due - they are starting.
I asked if you are going to vote Tory. You - like so many of us - are very upset by the PO scandal. You have identified it as a key driver for how you will vote. So are you - as a result of your anger - going to vote Tory?
Ask at the kiosk. If you are a member, every time you visit and check in the local property gets £3-£4 from central funds.
But they do tend to have full size cattle grids with no bypasses.
The Dunham Massey sign is somewhere around here:
https://what3words.com/eyeliner.trial.twigs
Ha ha ha ha ha
Will he be replaced by Bill ChipnPin ?
Part of the confusion stems from recording error from institutions like Ordnance Survey. This is particularly the case with Scottish hills, to the extent that some non-local Gaelic speakers use the OS name, even if it makes no sense in context.
https://x.com/theiaincameron/status/1791843173389467794?t=Uf0jCN3X3MBxcbQVmC65LQ&s=19
There are lots of oddities like that. I don't understand why Evesham is pronounced as three syllables, but that's not as odd as Stiffkey, a delightful North Norfolk village, which for some reason the locals pronounce as Stookey.
Foreigners are worse though. Why do the Germans call Cologne, Koeln? It isn't remotely similar. And as for the Italians, when are they going to stop being silly and give Florence its proper name instead of 'Firenze'?
https://www.dianeabbott.org.uk/contact/help.aspx
She is very popular locally and rightly so. See her increases in voteshare:
2010: +6.0%
2015: +7.9%
2017: +12.2%
2019: -4.8%
Labour nationally:
2010: -6.2%
2015: +1.5%
2017: +9.6%
2019: -7.9%
She has outperformed Labour by 12.2pp, 6.4pp, 2.6pp, and 3.1pp.
Enjoy your retirement, Diane. You've earned it.
My mum: "I think Aunt Edith is coming for Christmas."
Me: "You think?"
My mum: "Well I'm not sure but she should be."
Me: "More likely than not then, is what you actually mean."
My mum: "I suppose so, yes."
Me: "How likely though? 75% 90% Can we put a number on it?"
'What of politicians? How did they exercise oversight? Did they exercise any? Since 1998 the Business Ministers were:-
Peter Mandelson
Patricia Hewitt
Alan Johnson (ex-postman)
Peter Mandelson (again)
followed by 9 Business Ministers since 2010:-
Vince Cable
Sajid Javid
Greg Clark
Andrea Leadsom
Alok Sharma
Kwasi Kwarteng
Nadine Dorries
Michelle Donelan
Kemi Badenoch.
Also since 2010 there have been Ministers with specific responsibility for postal affairs:-
Ed Davey
Norman Lamb
Jo Swinson
Jenny Willott
Jo Swinson (again)
Margot James (the only Minister so far to express any regret about their role in this affair)
Andrew Griffiths
Kelly Tolhurst
Paul Scully
Kevin Hollinrake. '
I would add the caveat that according to Alan Bates, Norman Lamb distinguished himself by at least trying to get to grips with the scandal, but was moved on before he could achieve anything. Davy did at least meet Bates, although to little purpose.
Cable, Davy and Swinson are all due to appear before the Inquiry, though not before the election.
Edit: Kelly Tolhurst too, I think.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyrr0yex40yo
This is appalling. This is why this stuff happens. The civil servants are being defensive and the ministers do not ask enough questions. They often don't know their brief well and change jobs too frequently. I discussed this with an ex-minister who was unusually an expert in their field and their comments were even more damning.
Now this doesn't excuse Davey, but it is the system and frankly the first minister in the chain is the one with least blame. By the time you are several ministers along and a scandal is brewing then responsibility and turning a blind eye becomes more obvious.
Leader for 144 days
Leadership vacancy until Ed Davey was elected leader - 258 days
* okay, it might okay be fun for some very nerdy PBers but I have to provide for my tribe.
"How certain are you, you can land this project on time?"
"We're in good shape - 95% we'll land on time."
Later...
"You missed the target date - you misled us."
"Well... 5% is not zero."
As noted elsewhere, many Scottish pronunciations are also a long way from their spellings: Garioch, as Gear-ee for example.
Starmer has said nothing of note or interest so far.
Rachel Reeves has been more active.
All to play for.
Davey didn't ask enough questions - having been in office for a couple of days a letter arrives from Alan Bates. Knowing little about the issue Davey asks his officials for how to answer.
Remember that things we Don't Know that we Don't Know are the hardest to grasp. You can't ask the right question without knowing there is a question that needs to be asked.
Interpretation of *some* of her remarks is a belief that Jews/Travellers/Irish have it easier, since they can “pass” for white.
Part of the issue is that members of various ethnic communities don’t think they can be racist, since racism has been applied to them. Having lived and mixed in central London, the statements that get made by some people in some groups about others would have Yaxley-Lennon climbing the curtains. Think 1950s salon bar talk.
The announcements may be cynical, I’m not sure they are “mad”. And he’s making all the running.
This really is turning out to be an epoch defining election isn't it?
I Suspect in the end, the Tories will be stronger for this era defining clear out but it may take them 25 years to realize this lol!
I may be back in London for the election, though, as my wife has to renew her US visa.
You cannot really get away with saying something is aspirational thesedays when describing a target, people know that means 'not going to happen'.
For the former the golden rule is never say anything less than 80% (unless you think the project needs to be pulled).
One of the clearest systemic flaws is the relationship between Government and the PO (and other organisations which are wholly owned by the Government). There is no shortage of bad actors. Jarnail Singh, the PO's comedy lawyer, would be one of the more blatant examples but the list is long. Davy? Probably a fair way down it, but we'll know more after he has testified.
As a general rule of thumb, the later culprits are the worst because over the years it became increasingly difficult to deny that something awful had happened. The PO has been in denial throughout, and as far asI can tell is still not cooperating fully with the Inquiry. Ministers didn't stir until after the TV series aired. (Some exceptions, maybe....notably one Boris Johnson?) Don't recall hearing much from Badenoch, even since the programme.
That's a depressingly long list of ministerial suspects, but I cannot for the life of me imagine why you would look at it and immediately say to yourself 'That's it. Not voting for his/her Party.'
They all have dirty hands.
In December 2019, the Conservatives got 47% in England, Labour were on 34% and the LDs on 12%.
That's therefore a 20.5% swing from Conservative to Labour and an 11.5% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat. The 81st safest Conservative seat is Devon South West which requires a 20.58% swing from Conservative to Labour to fall.
Stretch that out (with tactical voting) to 25% swings and a seat like Wiltshire East, the 13th safest seat, comes into view. Labour are only 11/2 to win the seat - could the Conservatives at 1/10 be the value here?
Who plays at 1/10 - plenty on here I imagine.
So that's somebody we'd all like to be contactless with.
'Who plays at 1/10 ?'
Why, the needy and greedy! You know that, young Stodge.
If Johnson was still PM it would be a far more difficult choice. Over the years I have generally vacillated between LD/SDP and Conservative. While I would never vote Tory when their leader was a clown out of principle, I would also not vote LD when their leader is either a total fool or a liar - essentially the two main faults of Johnson.
But hey, I am only one vote!
But not a pain in the neck at all. If only more people thought like this.
Oddly, some of my daughters - even at least one of the non-mathematical ones - instinctively think like this. Not just 'will such a thing happen?' but 'How likely?' - and want a likelihood expressed in percentages, not just a 'very'. I may have influenced them more than I give myself credit for.
Let’s be clear, the snap election announcement was an unholy disaster.
But since then, I think the Tories are doing better than the Twitter / bien pensant / PB consensus.
(Always found it a bit disappointing that there isn't a hunt named the Vale of York tbh).