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The detail from YouGov’s CON 20% poll – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,473
    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    Yokes said:

    What are the odds on Haley going on a POTUS run as 3rd party candidate I wonder

    It wouldn’t do her any good. (Maybe it helps Biden a bit?) If she doesn’t want to support Trump, she can just say she isn’t voting for him but is working hard to get X elected to the Senate and Y to the House etc. Bide her time until the GOP see sense on Trump… but as I think that will take >80 years, maybe that won’t do her any good either.
    Haley has no political future for at least 4 to 8 years anyway, she has and wont have an elected position, she wont be in a cabinet and I suspect theres money out there for someone credible to help stop Trump. Its pure spoiler but shes one of the few with profile to be credible. There may be others but they arent visible right now.
    If she wants Biden to beat Trump, she could just endorse Biden. What does a quixotic independent run achieve? Would that do more to harm Trump, or just take anti-Trump Republican votes away from Biden and thus help Trump?
    The same reason you have no hopers in every presidential race, to be available for an audience who favours them to vote.

    Those no-hopers generally don’t have a possible future in one of the main 2 parties, and/or are delusional. Haley maybe has a future in the GOP and could try again.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    "U.K. walks away from trade talks with Canada
    Sticking points include how much access U.K. producers should have to the Canadian cheese market"

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-uk-trade-cheese-1.7094817
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,133
    Foxy said:

    Brilliant programe on Channel 4 on the miners strike. Well worth catching.

    What a different country we were 40 years ago. A lot thinner too.

    Better tastes in music, politicians and fashion.

    Actually just better.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Common sense, Spanish style

    Chess prodigy who joked about blowing up plane acquitted

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5ef6874e-af76-4e1b-b861-82a86a921627?shareToken=927d4f0091456f0e7b64cd2b05218276
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Any Davey disquiet?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,893
    edited January 26
    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    The fundamental problem with the UK is the Conservative Party

    One reason why a Labour government again might be good is to show what a ridiculous statement that is
    Where would you put this government on the rung of all governments?

    Is this it? Is this the crapest British government of all time?

    Ten years ago the Conservatives dined out at election time on a strong reputation of fiscal conservatism they had built and held over the course of a hundred years. And now that reputation just a pile of smouldering rubble. And no one else did this to them. They did it to themselves.

    The reason why it is the worst government of all time, is because it’s the most confused.com Conservative Party of all time.

    PB contributors who are real Conservatives hate this mess of a government more than anyone else. By going right wing populist, the Tory Psrty deprived Conservatives in the UK of a Conservative Party. Simples.
    This government has cut inflation and the economy is growing.

    In the last 50 years I would rate the 1974-1979 and 2005-2010 Labour governments and the 1970-1974 Heath government as worse than this one.

    Sunak also comes across as more competent than Major pre 1997, even if less effective a campaigner.
    Taken as one, over their various iterations, the first government in recorded history that's made children poorer than their parents while giving them fewer rights.

    And Sunak is a part of that like the rest of these appalling people that have ruined Britain since 2010. Britain's Brezhnev's - the party of stagnation and decline. They really do deserve the electoral kicking of a lifetime later this year.
    Unemployment is also half the level Labour left in 2010 and on average people are wealthier and have higher incomes than they had when Labour last left office too.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,737
    HYUFD said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    The fundamental problem with the UK is the Conservative Party

    One reason why a Labour government again might be good is to show what a ridiculous statement that is
    Where would you put this government on the rung of all governments?

    Is this it? Is this the crapest British government of all time?

    Ten years ago the Conservatives dined out at election time on a strong reputation of fiscal conservatism they had built and held over the course of a hundred years. And now that reputation just a pile of smouldering rubble. And no one else did this to them. They did it to themselves.

    The reason why it is the worst government of all time, is because it’s the most confused.com Conservative Party of all time.

    PB contributors who are real Conservatives hate this mess of a government more than anyone else. By going right wing populist, the Tory Psrty deprived Conservatives in the UK of a Conservative Party. Simples.
    This government has cut inflation and the economy is growing.

    In the last 50 years I would rate the 1974-1979 and 2005-2010 Labour governments and the 1970-1974 Heath government as worse than this one.

    Sunak also comes across as more competent than Major pre 1997, even if less effective a campaigner.
    Taken as one, over their various iterations, the first government in recorded history that's made children poorer than their parents while giving them fewer rights.

    And Sunak is a part of that like the rest of these appalling people that have ruined Britain since 2010. Britain's Brezhnev's - the party of stagnation and decline. They really do deserve the electoral kicking of a lifetime later this year.
    Unemployment is also half the level Labour left in 2010 and on average people are wealthier and have higher incomes than they had when Labour last left office too.
    And how much of that is housing wealth that's shut more and more younger people out of the housing market? I get why the over 60s don't feel like this is one of the worst ever governments. They've been protected at others' expense and been given their every desire - even if it's cost others and been against their wishes.

    Trust me, if you're younger you absolutely do - given wages have barely grown while housing and other costs have grown massively, services have declined, all the while we pay more taxes.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,737
    Fishing said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    The fundamental problem with the UK is the Conservative Party

    One reason why a Labour government again might be good is to show what a ridiculous statement that is
    Where would you put this government on the rung of all governments?

    Is this it? Is this the crapest British government of all time?

    Ten years ago the Conservatives dined out at election time on a strong reputation of fiscal conservatism they had built and held over the course of a hundred years. And now that reputation just a pile of smouldering rubble. And no one else did this to them. They did it to themselves.

    The reason why it is the worst government of all time, is because it’s the most confused.com Conservative Party of all time.

    PB contributors who are real Conservatives hate this mess of a government more than anyone else. By going right wing populist, the Tory Psrty deprived Conservatives in the UK of a Conservative Party. Simples.
    This government has cut inflation and the economy is growing.

    In the last 50 years I would rate the 1974-1979 and 2005-2010 Labour governments and the 1970-1974 Heath government as worse than this one.

    Sunak also comes across as more competent than Major pre 1997, even if less effective a campaigner.
    Taken as one, over their various iterations, the first government in recorded history that's made children poorer than their parents while giving them fewer rights.

    And Sunak is a part of that like the rest of these appalling people that have ruined Britain since 2010. Britain's Brezhnev's - the party of stagnation and decline. They really do deserve the electoral kicking of a lifetime later this year.
    ... except that the party that will give them the kicking has no convincing plans to address the stagnation with the possible exception of housebuilding and in fact may well make it worse. Stagnation didn't start in 2010.
    Let's face it, they can't be any worse and merely not making things worse, as the Tories repeatedly have by advocating dismal fantasies, would be a massive improvement.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Any Davey disquiet?
    Not much. Has come up a couple of times on doorsteps but apparently is absolutely being bombarded on Tory Facebook feeds.

    This whole hidden geriatric social media war is fascinating.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    MJW said:

    Fishing said:

    MJW said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    The fundamental problem with the UK is the Conservative Party

    One reason why a Labour government again might be good is to show what a ridiculous statement that is
    Where would you put this government on the rung of all governments?

    Is this it? Is this the crapest British government of all time?

    Ten years ago the Conservatives dined out at election time on a strong reputation of fiscal conservatism they had built and held over the course of a hundred years. And now that reputation just a pile of smouldering rubble. And no one else did this to them. They did it to themselves.

    The reason why it is the worst government of all time, is because it’s the most confused.com Conservative Party of all time.

    PB contributors who are real Conservatives hate this mess of a government more than anyone else. By going right wing populist, the Tory Psrty deprived Conservatives in the UK of a Conservative Party. Simples.
    This government has cut inflation and the economy is growing.

    In the last 50 years I would rate the 1974-1979 and 2005-2010 Labour governments and the 1970-1974 Heath government as worse than this one.

    Sunak also comes across as more competent than Major pre 1997, even if less effective a campaigner.
    Taken as one, over their various iterations, the first government in recorded history that's made children poorer than their parents while giving them fewer rights.

    And Sunak is a part of that like the rest of these appalling people that have ruined Britain since 2010. Britain's Brezhnev's - the party of stagnation and decline. They really do deserve the electoral kicking of a lifetime later this year.
    ... except that the party that will give them the kicking has no convincing plans to address the stagnation with the possible exception of housebuilding and in fact may well make it worse. Stagnation didn't start in 2010.
    Let's face it, they can't be any worse and merely not making things worse, as the Tories repeatedly have by advocating dismal fantasies, would be a massive improvement.
    Back to square one with Starmer. Yes please.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,418
    edited January 26
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @MrHarryCole

    🗞️ Plan to change 1922 rules to require massive 174 letters to oust Sunak — as PM faces another hell week

    🗞️ Truss stepped in to kill Clarke putsch

    🗞️ Olly Robbins return?

    🗞️ And I reveal plotters bid to install Kemi in May - with election on 12 Dec

    I thought plotters were bidding to install Mordaunt? Clearly they can't even get that right
    Nadine Dorries said Kemi was next on the list of the shadowy cabal running the party.

    ETA although she recently named Lord Cameron who currently is not eligible.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,391
    "Tenet" is being re-released for one week only on Feb 23rd. It is in the UK but it may be limited to IMAX cinemas, and may indeed be just one: the BFI IMAX in London. I so wanna see it
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    So hands up if you thought 246 was a good score on this pitch. How’s about if you thought it was an okay score?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    Don’t say c***l w*r, but 25 state governors have now signed a letter in support of Texas defending its border when the Feds refuse to.

    https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/

    “President Biden and his Administration have left Americans and our country completely vulnerable to unprecedented illegal immigration pouring across the Southern border. Instead of upholding the rule of law and securing the border, the Biden Administration has attacked and sued Texas for stepping up to protect American citizens from historic levels of illegal immigrants, deadly drugs like fentanyl, and terrorists entering our country.

    “We stand in solidarity with our fellow Governor, Greg Abbott, and the State of Texas in utilizing every tool and strategy, including razor wire fences, to secure the border. We do it in part because the Biden Administration is refusing to enforce immigration laws already on the books and is illegally allowing mass parole across America of migrants who entered our country illegally.

    “The authors of the U.S. Constitution made clear that in times like this, states have a right of self-defense, under Article 4, Section 4 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Because the Biden Administration has abdicated its constitutional compact duties to the states, Texas has every legal justification to protect the sovereignty of our states and our nation.”

    Signatories include: Governor Kay Ivey (AL), Governor Mike Dunleavy (AK), Governor Sarah Sanders (AR), Governor Ron DeSantis (FL), Governor Brian Kemp (GA), Governor Brad Little (ID), Governor Eric Holcomb (IN), Governor Kim Reynolds (IA), Governor Jeff Landry (LA), Governor Tate Reeves (MS), Governor Mike Parson (MO), Governor Greg Gianforte (MT), Governor Jim Pillen (NE), Governor Joe Lombardo (NV), Governor Chris Sununu (NH), Governor Doug Burgum (ND), Governor Mike DeWine (OH), Governor Kevin Stitt (OK), Governor Henry McMaster (SC), Governor Kristi Noem (SD), Governor Bill Lee (TN), Governor Spencer Cox (UT), Governor Glenn Youngkin (VA), Governor Jim Justice (WV), and Governor Mark Gordon (WY).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    Sandpit said:

    So hands up if you thought 246 was a good score on this pitch. How’s about if you thought it was an okay score?

    Can't say because I've only been listening on the radio. Haven't seen any video.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    Andy_JS said:

    Sandpit said:

    So hands up if you thought 246 was a good score on this pitch. How’s about if you thought it was an okay score?

    Can't say because I've only been listening on the radio. Haven't seen any video.
    I may have spoken too soon there, two wickets in the first hour this morning.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,954
    Sandpit said:

    Don’t say c***l w*r, but 25 state governors have now signed a letter in support of Texas defending its border when the Feds refuse to.

    https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/

    “President Biden and his Administration have left Americans and our country completely vulnerable to unprecedented illegal immigration pouring across the Southern border. Instead of upholding the rule of law and securing the border, the Biden Administration has attacked and sued Texas for stepping up to protect American citizens from historic levels of illegal immigrants, deadly drugs like fentanyl, and terrorists entering our country.

    “We stand in solidarity with our fellow Governor, Greg Abbott, and the State of Texas in utilizing every tool and strategy, including razor wire fences, to secure the border. We do it in part because the Biden Administration is refusing to enforce immigration laws already on the books and is illegally allowing mass parole across America of migrants who entered our country illegally.

    “The authors of the U.S. Constitution made clear that in times like this, states have a right of self-defense, under Article 4, Section 4 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Because the Biden Administration has abdicated its constitutional compact duties to the states, Texas has every legal justification to protect the sovereignty of our states and our nation.”

    Signatories include: Governor Kay Ivey (AL), Governor Mike Dunleavy (AK), Governor Sarah Sanders (AR), Governor Ron DeSantis (FL), Governor Brian Kemp (GA), Governor Brad Little (ID), Governor Eric Holcomb (IN), Governor Kim Reynolds (IA), Governor Jeff Landry (LA), Governor Tate Reeves (MS), Governor Mike Parson (MO), Governor Greg Gianforte (MT), Governor Jim Pillen (NE), Governor Joe Lombardo (NV), Governor Chris Sununu (NH), Governor Doug Burgum (ND), Governor Mike DeWine (OH), Governor Kevin Stitt (OK), Governor Henry McMaster (SC), Governor Kristi Noem (SD), Governor Bill Lee (TN), Governor Spencer Cox (UT), Governor Glenn Youngkin (VA), Governor Jim Justice (WV), and Governor Mark Gordon (WY).

    There must be a temptation to form a "Sovereign Border Militia". Just set up a Google Form and ask veterans, law enforcement and anyone with an AR-15 to sign up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Don’t say c***l w*r, but 25 state governors have now signed a letter in support of Texas defending its border when the Feds refuse to.

    https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/

    “President Biden and his Administration have left Americans and our country completely vulnerable to unprecedented illegal immigration pouring across the Southern border. Instead of upholding the rule of law and securing the border, the Biden Administration has attacked and sued Texas for stepping up to protect American citizens from historic levels of illegal immigrants, deadly drugs like fentanyl, and terrorists entering our country.

    “We stand in solidarity with our fellow Governor, Greg Abbott, and the State of Texas in utilizing every tool and strategy, including razor wire fences, to secure the border. We do it in part because the Biden Administration is refusing to enforce immigration laws already on the books and is illegally allowing mass parole across America of migrants who entered our country illegally.

    “The authors of the U.S. Constitution made clear that in times like this, states have a right of self-defense, under Article 4, Section 4 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Because the Biden Administration has abdicated its constitutional compact duties to the states, Texas has every legal justification to protect the sovereignty of our states and our nation.”

    Signatories include: Governor Kay Ivey (AL), Governor Mike Dunleavy (AK), Governor Sarah Sanders (AR), Governor Ron DeSantis (FL), Governor Brian Kemp (GA), Governor Brad Little (ID), Governor Eric Holcomb (IN), Governor Kim Reynolds (IA), Governor Jeff Landry (LA), Governor Tate Reeves (MS), Governor Mike Parson (MO), Governor Greg Gianforte (MT), Governor Jim Pillen (NE), Governor Joe Lombardo (NV), Governor Chris Sununu (NH), Governor Doug Burgum (ND), Governor Mike DeWine (OH), Governor Kevin Stitt (OK), Governor Henry McMaster (SC), Governor Kristi Noem (SD), Governor Bill Lee (TN), Governor Spencer Cox (UT), Governor Glenn Youngkin (VA), Governor Jim Justice (WV), and Governor Mark Gordon (WY).

    There must be a temptation to form a "Sovereign Border Militia". Just set up a Google Form and ask veterans, law enforcement and anyone with an AR-15 to sign up.
    They don’t even need to do that, as the States have their own National Guard troops under control of the Governor. Some Democrats are calling for the Texas NG to be Federalised to stop the conflict. It’s all going to get very messy.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,954
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Don’t say c***l w*r, but 25 state governors have now signed a letter in support of Texas defending its border when the Feds refuse to.

    https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/

    “President Biden and his Administration have left Americans and our country completely vulnerable to unprecedented illegal immigration pouring across the Southern border. Instead of upholding the rule of law and securing the border, the Biden Administration has attacked and sued Texas for stepping up to protect American citizens from historic levels of illegal immigrants, deadly drugs like fentanyl, and terrorists entering our country.

    “We stand in solidarity with our fellow Governor, Greg Abbott, and the State of Texas in utilizing every tool and strategy, including razor wire fences, to secure the border. We do it in part because the Biden Administration is refusing to enforce immigration laws already on the books and is illegally allowing mass parole across America of migrants who entered our country illegally.

    “The authors of the U.S. Constitution made clear that in times like this, states have a right of self-defense, under Article 4, Section 4 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Because the Biden Administration has abdicated its constitutional compact duties to the states, Texas has every legal justification to protect the sovereignty of our states and our nation.”

    Signatories include: Governor Kay Ivey (AL), Governor Mike Dunleavy (AK), Governor Sarah Sanders (AR), Governor Ron DeSantis (FL), Governor Brian Kemp (GA), Governor Brad Little (ID), Governor Eric Holcomb (IN), Governor Kim Reynolds (IA), Governor Jeff Landry (LA), Governor Tate Reeves (MS), Governor Mike Parson (MO), Governor Greg Gianforte (MT), Governor Jim Pillen (NE), Governor Joe Lombardo (NV), Governor Chris Sununu (NH), Governor Doug Burgum (ND), Governor Mike DeWine (OH), Governor Kevin Stitt (OK), Governor Henry McMaster (SC), Governor Kristi Noem (SD), Governor Bill Lee (TN), Governor Spencer Cox (UT), Governor Glenn Youngkin (VA), Governor Jim Justice (WV), and Governor Mark Gordon (WY).

    There must be a temptation to form a "Sovereign Border Militia". Just set up a Google Form and ask veterans, law enforcement and anyone with an AR-15 to sign up.
    They don’t even need to do that, as the States have their own National Guard troops under control of the Governor. Some Democrats are calling for the Texas NG to be Federalised to stop the conflict. It’s all going to get very messy.
    True, but they still have allegiance to the federal government. Bypass that and you can avoid that mess for long enough to prevent it being shut down by the feds.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039
    Sandpit said:

    Don’t say c***l w*r, but 25 state governors have now signed a letter in support of Texas defending its border when the Feds refuse to.

    https://www.rga.org/republican-governors-ban-together-issue-joint-statement-supporting-texas-constitutional-right-self-defense/

    “President Biden and his Administration have left Americans and our country completely vulnerable to unprecedented illegal immigration pouring across the Southern border. Instead of upholding the rule of law and securing the border, the Biden Administration has attacked and sued Texas for stepping up to protect American citizens from historic levels of illegal immigrants, deadly drugs like fentanyl, and terrorists entering our country.

    “We stand in solidarity with our fellow Governor, Greg Abbott, and the State of Texas in utilizing every tool and strategy, including razor wire fences, to secure the border. We do it in part because the Biden Administration is refusing to enforce immigration laws already on the books and is illegally allowing mass parole across America of migrants who entered our country illegally.

    “The authors of the U.S. Constitution made clear that in times like this, states have a right of self-defense, under Article 4, Section 4 and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Because the Biden Administration has abdicated its constitutional compact duties to the states, Texas has every legal justification to protect the sovereignty of our states and our nation.”

    Signatories include: Governor Kay Ivey (AL), Governor Mike Dunleavy (AK), Governor Sarah Sanders (AR), Governor Ron DeSantis (FL), Governor Brian Kemp (GA), Governor Brad Little (ID), Governor Eric Holcomb (IN), Governor Kim Reynolds (IA), Governor Jeff Landry (LA), Governor Tate Reeves (MS), Governor Mike Parson (MO), Governor Greg Gianforte (MT), Governor Jim Pillen (NE), Governor Joe Lombardo (NV), Governor Chris Sununu (NH), Governor Doug Burgum (ND), Governor Mike DeWine (OH), Governor Kevin Stitt (OK), Governor Henry McMaster (SC), Governor Kristi Noem (SD), Governor Bill Lee (TN), Governor Spencer Cox (UT), Governor Glenn Youngkin (VA), Governor Jim Justice (WV), and Governor Mark Gordon (WY).

    Well I guess they can always keep bussing the people streaming over the border up to the Democrat states who oppose the actions of Texas.
  • New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited January 26

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    The lid is being lifted on a truly despicable organisation and the at best supine government that for decades just went with the flow because that was easier. About damn time this scandal got more media attention.

    Especially as the Post Office don't appear to have learned a thing from the whole business, and successive governments obviously couldn't give a shit - in what other areas are scandals like this probably happening?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,597
    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return
  • @kle4

    Ms Cyclefree produced a useful list of relevant Ministers over the period of the scandal. I can't trace it now. If you can, perhaps you could repost it here?

    I recall that Swinson was in charge about this time, following on from Sir Ed, Norman Lamb, and Jenny Willott. I suspect that Ed is relatively blameless, despite what the press might have you believe, and Norman Lamb is one of the few Ministers to get a favorable word or two from Alan Bates.

    Swinson, I think, has problems, as indeed does every subsequent Minister right through to the time the ITV series started and government began to notice that something, somewhere, had gone terribly wrong.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    The thing is, it's the anti-wokeists who need to toughen up. People with such small minds, they cannot accept that there are differences; in people, in views, in lifestyle. Anything different frightens them so much they want to ban it. Anything different from their cloistered worldview is so frightening they don't want it to exist.

    Anti-wokeists are a bunch of pathetic mamby-pamby wimps. ;)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,597

    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    The thing is, it's the anti-wokeists who need to toughen up. People with such small minds, they cannot accept that there are differences; in people, in views, in lifestyle. Anything different frightens them so much they want to ban it. Anything different from their cloistered worldview is so frightening they don't want it to exist.

    Anti-wokeists are a bunch of pathetic mamby-pamby wimps. ;)
    Happy Australia Day!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    Don't expect anyone who holds your data to abide by any rules on who they should share it with.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/eu-citizens-ulez-fines-data-breach-tfl
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469

    Don't expect anyone who holds your data to abide by any rules on who they should share it with.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/eu-citizens-ulez-fines-data-breach-tfl

    This article highlights a slightly different example of a data breech from the usual, but in general:

    It's quite simple: people from the top of these organisations should go to jail for big breeches. Until they do, breeches will still occur.

    Too many organisations rely on data to function, but don't see the data as worth investing in. Many make their income from data, but don't see the data as valuable. Hence the data, and the people who manage it, are not invested in.

    For many organisations, their data is their gold. They treat it like dirt.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147
    edited January 26

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    The fundamental problem with the UK is the Conservative Party

    One reason why a Labour government again might be good is to show what a ridiculous statement that is
    Where would you put this government on the rung of all governments?

    Is this it? Is this the crapest British government of all time?

    Ten years ago the Conservatives dined out at election time on a strong reputation of fiscal conservatism they had built and held over the course of a hundred years. And now that reputation just a pile of smouldering rubble. And no one else did this to them. They did it to themselves.

    The reason why it is the worst government of all time, is because it’s the most confused.com Conservative Party of all time.

    PB contributors who are real Conservatives hate this mess of a government more than anyone else. By going right wing populist, the Tory Psrty deprived Conservatives in the UK of a Conservative Party. Simples.
    All Mrs May had to do is deliver a soft, consensus Brexit, and all the party had to do is back her on putting the country first. Heywood’s biography suggests that May did realise this, but felt she didn’t have the political capital to push it through. Had this been done, history rewrites itself. Marginalising the nutters was her first priority, not feeding them. As subsequent events have proved, repeatedly, you can feed an extremist but you can never satisfy one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    The fundamental problem with the UK is the Conservative Party

    One reason why a Labour government again might be good is to show what a ridiculous statement that is
    Where would you put this government on the rung of all governments?

    Is this it? Is this the crapest British government of all time?

    Ten years ago the Conservatives dined out at election time on a strong reputation of fiscal conservatism they had built and held over the course of a hundred years. And now that reputation just a pile of smouldering rubble. And no one else did this to them. They did it to themselves.

    The reason why it is the worst government of all time, is because it’s the most confused.com Conservative Party of all time.

    PB contributors who are real Conservatives hate this mess of a government more than anyone else. By going right wing populist, the Tory Psrty deprived Conservatives in the UK of a Conservative Party. Simples.
    All Mrs May had to do is deliver a soft, consensus Brexit, and all the party had to do is back her on putting the country first. Heywood’s biography suggests that May did realise this, but felt she didn’t have the political capital to push it through. Had this been done, history rewrites itself. Marginalising the nutters was her first priority, not feeding them. As subsequent events have proved, repeatedly, you can feed a nutter but never satisfy one.
    In defence of May, the history of the Conservative Party over the last three decades has shown that the EUphobic nutters cannot be marginalised. They're a malignant force within the party, who care little for how much harm they cause the country.

    Shame on them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    A

    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    The thing is, it's the anti-wokeists who need to toughen up. People with such small minds, they cannot accept that there are differences; in people, in views, in lifestyle. Anything different frightens them so much they want to ban it. Anything different from their cloistered worldview is so frightening they don't want it to exist.

    Anti-wokeists are a bunch of pathetic mamby-pamby wimps. ;)
    It’s in all directions.

    In a forum on a particular technology, a number of new posters showed up and started posting their brand of politics.

    The posts weren’t deleted by the mods - the forum uses down voting. If your post is down voted by a high enough percentage of regular posters, it is hidden. Not deleted. You can still see it by clicking on a button. Just marked as low content.

    They immediately started claiming that they felt “unsafe”
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147
    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    IOW east has had a constituency wide leaflet, and that’s a Labour target. Delivered by paying for it, rather than using helpers, who I suspect are in poor supply?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    A

    Don't expect anyone who holds your data to abide by any rules on who they should share it with.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/26/eu-citizens-ulez-fines-data-breach-tfl

    This article highlights a slightly different example of a data breech from the usual, but in general:

    It's quite simple: people from the top of these organisations should go to jail for big breeches. Until they do, breeches will still occur.

    Too many organisations rely on data to function, but don't see the data as worth investing in. Many make their income from data, but don't see the data as valuable. Hence the data, and the people who manage it, are not invested in.

    For many organisations, their data is their gold. They treat it like dirt.
    Yup. Accountability isn’t a dirty word, Blackadder.

    I was in a meeting at a bank when SOX came in. One Big Cheese actually asked if this meant that he was legally liable for the area that he oversaw. The stunned reaction when he was told yes, said a lot.

    Within days, procedures got tightened up. Lot of loop holes, such as admin accounts used by everyone, vanished.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited January 26

    UK says Emirates-backed stake in Vodafone poses national security risk

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/jan/25/emirates-backed-stake-vodafone-security-risk-uae-uk-government


    So... what about UAE plan to buy the Telegraph?

    Clearly Vodafone is rather more important to the fabric of this country than the Telegraph.
    Vodafone have a lot of government contracts, you really don't want a foreign power owning/influencing that network, which is why I expect the Vodafone/Three merger to be blocked.
  • Sandpit said:

    So hands up if you thought 246 was a good score on this pitch. How’s about if you thought it was an okay score?

    Ben Foakes dropped Rahul early on, we need to give Bairstow the gloves back.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    kle4 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    The lid is being lifted on a truly despicable organisation and the at best supine government that for decades just went with the flow because that was easier. About damn time this scandal got more media attention.

    Especially as the Post Office don't appear to have learned a thing from the whole business, and successive governments obviously couldn't give a shit - in what other areas are scandals like this probably happening?
    The Post Office made profits. The managers got bonuses. The prosecutors sent lots of people to jail. The Ministers were told everything was tickety boo.

    What’s your problem? Some kind of Trumpist, rudely berating the Professional Awesome Experts* managing the Post Office?

    *No actual expertise included. All wrongs reserved. May contain nuts. May contain nutters.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    This is an article you might not expect to see in The Guardian.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/26/britain-peace-belligerent-putin-russia
  • Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127

    This is an article you might not expect to see in The Guardian.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/26/britain-peace-belligerent-putin-russia

    Quite a long piece in favour of Gender Critical Feminists too.

    The Guardian has always included quite varied commentary.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    Fishing said:

    Foxy said:

    Brilliant programe on Channel 4 on the miners strike. Well worth catching.

    What a different country we were 40 years ago. A lot thinner too.

    Better tastes in music, politicians and fashion.

    Actually just better.
    I would agree on the music, but if you watch the series then clearly it wasn't all sweetness and light.

    Fascinating interviews with participants from all sides. The first one focusing on a Derbyshire pit village rather than well known faces.
  • IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    It's a disgusting decision. The Chagossians have been denied justice for too long. Let them return to their homeland. There's nothing "wokey" about the idea that people shouldn't be forcibly removed from their homes and have their lives destroyed by high handed imperial powers. Their return doesn't prevent the US continuing to operate the base on Diego Garcia. The fight will continue and in the end justice will prevail, whatever this unelected privileged POS says.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Simon Jupp, our Tory MP, has suddenly become very visible in Sidmouth. He seems to have woken up to the fact that he has a hell of a fight on his hands with Richard Foord MP to win the new Honiton and Sidmouth constituency. They are having a Question Time style debate next month in Newton Poppleford, which sounds much more quaintly English than it is!

    As a side note, is there any other constituency in England in which two sitting MPs are going head to head? I am slightly surprised H&S is not getting more attention. It looks like a very good LD prospect to me.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,597

    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    It's a disgusting decision. The Chagossians have been denied justice for too long. Let them return to their homeland. There's nothing "wokey" about the idea that people shouldn't be forcibly removed from their homes and have their lives destroyed by high handed imperial powers. Their return doesn't prevent the US continuing to operate the base on Diego Garcia. The fight will continue and in the end justice will prevail, whatever this unelected privileged POS says.
    Just celebrate Australia Day, and be happy
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    edited January 26

    IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
    I suspect that incumbent ministers aren’t allowed to say anything that might be seen as prejudicing the ongoing inquiry.

    Every political party is up to their neck in this scandal though, as you say it’s been going on for decades.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147
    The BBC has photographed the Project Sparrow minutes unredacted, but not so that you can read them. The heavily redacted ones are widely available on the internet, but not, I think, the versions that you can read in full?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    In other news, I see the magnificently mediocre Lord David Frost has become the latest high profile Tory to come out in favour of a new Trump presidency, so putting pursuit of culture war ahead of foundational UK national security interests. There is a madness gripping the Tories right now. As someone who does care about this country's future, I genuinely hope it is temporary.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited January 26
    Documents showing Post Office top bosses secretly decided in April 2014 to sack forensic accountants who had found bugs in their IT system have been obtained by the BBC.

    A Post Office board sub-committee, codenamed "Project Sparrow", took the decision with the full knowledge of the government.

    Former sub-postmaster Alan Bates said it was further proof of a "total cover-up".

    The Post Office declined to comment.

    The independent forensic accountants Second Sight played a key role in exposing the scandal, finding flaws in the Horizon computer system which generated false evidence of cash shortfalls at sub-post offices, leading to wrongful prosecutions of sub-postmasters.

    Post Office bosses kept insisting their systems were robust.

    But they made a concession following pressure from MPs, offering to set up a mediation scheme to deal with what they said was a small number of cases.

    The documents reveal the Post Office planned to pay a total of only £1m in "token payments", or compensation, to sub-postmasters as it suppressed evidence of computer bugs in 2014.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Simon Jupp, our Tory MP, has suddenly become very visible in Sidmouth. He seems to have woken up to the fact that he has a hell of a fight on his hands with Richard Foord MP to win the new Honiton and Sidmouth constituency. They are having a Question Time style debate next month in Newton Poppleford, which sounds much more quaintly English than it is!

    As a side note, is there any other constituency in England in which two sitting MPs are going head to head? I am slightly surprised H&S is not getting more attention. It looks like a very good LD prospect to me.

    One of our local Tory councillors is being very active, on Facebook at least. There was a risible attempt to make out that a local Lib Dem councillor was somehow "responsible" for local roadworks that caused traffic chaos. Now of course he was the person you should complain to as they were on his patch, but of course the people actually responsible for them were the Tory county council!
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    In many places you can eat a halal Full English
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
    I suspect that incumbent ministers aren’t allowed to say anything that might be seen as prejudicing the ongoing inquiry.

    Every political party is up to their neck in this scandal though, as you say it’s been going on for decades.
    Not to mention prosecutions

    {Ed Balls has entered the chat}
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Simon Jupp, our Tory MP, has suddenly become very visible in Sidmouth. He seems to have woken up to the fact that he has a hell of a fight on his hands with Richard Foord MP to win the new Honiton and Sidmouth constituency. They are having a Question Time style debate next month in Newton Poppleford, which sounds much more quaintly English than it is!

    As a side note, is there any other constituency in England in which two sitting MPs are going head to head? I am slightly surprised H&S is not getting more attention. It looks like a very good LD prospect to me.

    Richard Foord was one of those talking about the sudden Tory activity. And yes, largely air war because activists to actually go door to door are so scarce.

    If the conservatives are fighting hard locally this does potentially affect prospects in the LD marginals. I wonder if the same is happening in the “safer” Tory seats. They certainly have plenty of money to spend from their donors.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,904
    edited January 26

    Wages of Woke appear to be coming at expense of CUP?

    Also note that there is virtually no gender gap for Conservatives, compared with mild one for Labour (leaning female) and strong one for Reform (lurching male).

    There's a thought. So Reform UK are the "Lurching male", which seems about right.

    We have Tory, Lab, SNP and LibDem.

    Which is who for the others?

    (I'm inclined towards SNP Morticia, Labour Gomez, Tory Pugsley, which leaves LibDem as Wednesday.)

    (Good morning everyone.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    MattW said:

    Wages of Woke appear to be coming at expense of CUP?

    Also note that there is virtually no gender gap for Conservatives, compared with mild one for Labour (leaning female) and strong one for Reform (lurching male).

    There's a thought. So Reform UK are the "Lurching male", which seems about right.

    We have Tory, Lab, SNP and LibDem.

    Which is who for the others?

    (Good morning everyone.)



    Lurch was incredibly reliable, sensible and generally a rock for all the others. Not sure RefUK meets any of those criteria.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    edited January 26


    A fascinating chart on how Gen Z males and females are politically diverging across the world.

    Perhaps South Korea is leading the way. Why would liberal young women want to have children with men who despise their values?

    The article seems not to be paywalled if clicked on via the link here:

    https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1750773579220709638?t=R4GuXfwoQu_ZwyLOE-2ptQ&s=19
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    Are venison sausages vegan?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Simon Jupp, our Tory MP, has suddenly become very visible in Sidmouth. He seems to have woken up to the fact that he has a hell of a fight on his hands with Richard Foord MP to win the new Honiton and Sidmouth constituency. They are having a Question Time style debate next month in Newton Poppleford, which sounds much more quaintly English than it is!

    As a side note, is there any other constituency in England in which two sitting MPs are going head to head? I am slightly surprised H&S is not getting more attention. It looks like a very good LD prospect to me.

    One of our local Tory councillors is being very active, on Facebook at least. There was a risible attempt to make out that a local Lib Dem councillor was somehow "responsible" for local roadworks that caused traffic chaos. Now of course he was the person you should complain to as they were on his patch, but of course the people actually responsible for them were the Tory county council!
    The trouble with using Facebook so much must surely be the fact that its user base is slowly dying out, because it’s a boomer platform.

    There’s not really a replacement in the works with the same local community structure. TwiX is international or interest group based, so are TilTok and Instagram. WhatsApp is very local but not the sort of place politicians can easily gatecrash.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,019
    US economy grows 3.3% on an annualised basis in the 4th quarter and by 2.5% in 2023 as a whole. The latest growth was driven by consumption and reflects a surge in consumer confidence: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/19/consumer-sentiment-surges-while-inflation-outlook-dips-university-of-michigan-survey-shows.html

    Even Fox News reports that the economy is in a sweet spot with good growth but not so much as to reignite inflation.

    I remain of the view that these economic performance figures are going to drive Biden's popularity northwards during the coming months. If we end up with a Biden Trump rematch (and I think we will) it will not be as close as it was in 2020.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @Steven_Swinford
    Exclusive:

    Lord Frost warned he could lose whip if it emerges Tory donors who funded Yougov MRP poll predicting Labour landslide have backed Reform

    Frost met Lord True on Weds and was asked repeatedly who donors were. He refused to say

    He was warned that if it emerged donor had backed Reform he would lose whip for effectively ‘collaborating’ with another political party
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,473
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68098173 — another failing of the Conservative government, an article on calls for council tax revaluations rather than the ridiculous system at present where your council tax in England is based on what your property was worth 33 years ago.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    edited January 26
    Foxy said:



    A fascinating chart on how Gen Z males and females are politically diverging across the world.

    Perhaps South Korea is leading the way. Why would liberal young women want to have children with men who despise their values.

    The article seems not to be paywalled if clicked on via the link here:

    https://twitter.com/DinaPomeranz/status/1750773579220709638?t=R4GuXfwoQu_ZwyLOE-2ptQ&s=19

    South Korean men need to wake the fuck up and realise 1924 was a) a century ago and b) last millennium.

    If you want someone to share your life, a bit of sharing is required.

    The politics are the result of the differing worldviews, not the cause.
  • Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There are Halal sausages but the vegan ones taste like rubber and I prefer seekh kebabs made from lamb or chicken.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    We were in Kuala Lumpur recently. The sausages were chicken. Very nice they were too. Had the Heck chicken ones before.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    MattW said:

    Wages of Woke appear to be coming at expense of CUP?

    Also note that there is virtually no gender gap for Conservatives, compared with mild one for Labour (leaning female) and strong one for Reform (lurching male).

    There's a thought. So Reform UK are the "Lurching male", which seems about right.

    We have Tory, Lab, SNP and LibDem.

    Which is who for the others?

    (I'm inclined towards SNP Morticia, Labour Gomez, Tory Pugsley, which leaves LibDem as Wednesday.)

    (Good morning everyone.)
    My opinion on Nicola went up yesterday, admittedly from a fairly low level. What a marvellous turn of phrase she has.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,473
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
    I suspect that incumbent ministers aren’t allowed to say anything that might be seen as prejudicing the ongoing inquiry.

    Every political party is up to their neck in this scandal though, as you say it’s been going on for decades.
    Rishi Sunak has spoken extensively on the scandal and announced various measures to be taken. If he could say all that, Badenoch could say *something*.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @faisalislam
    The Canada - cheese post Brexit trade trickiness was one of the first stories I did here 5 years ago:

    @faisalislam
    Here is £500 block of cheddar destined for Canada from the Wiltshire warehouse of Coombe Castle. At moment 0% tariff under UK’s participation in EU-Canada trade deal.

    After No Deal will be hit with a *£1200* tariff, after Canada chose not to roll over UK deal.. 245% tariff

    https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1153376840343588865?s=20
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208

    In other news, I see the magnificently mediocre Lord David Frost has become the latest high profile Tory to come out in favour of a new Trump presidency, so putting pursuit of culture war ahead of foundational UK national security interests. There is a madness gripping the Tories right now. As someone who does care about this country's future, I genuinely hope it is temporary.

    Seems logical to me. The US withdraws from NATO, followed by the UK, thus ending the horror of Britain being in a military alliance with our true enemies (France and Germany). A never-ending war between Russian and continental-Europe-supported Ukraine keeps our rivals permanently poor and weak. The US and the UK of course make a new stronger treaty.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,039

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There must be. We have been to Muslim countries vacationing and had sausages there and bacon.

    The sausages were chicken ones. Heck do them in the UK too. They are nice but the risk is they can dry out.

    Also the Bacon in Dubai, which was ace, was Turkey bacon. Tasted just like the real McCoy but healthier !!!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,466
    edited January 26
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
    I suspect that incumbent ministers aren’t allowed to say anything that might be seen as prejudicing the ongoing inquiry.

    Every political party is up to their neck in this scandal though, as you say it’s been going on for decades.
    Yes.

    If there is one small crumb of comfort in all this it is that no Political Party can claim the moral high ground.

    As a rule, you would say that the further you go back in time the less the blame, and of course the further you go up the hierarchy, the more responsibilty must be accepted. So for example, Sir Peter Lilley and Peter Mandelson were both hopelessly wrong and as senior politicians they must accept some blame, but their involvement was long ago so they get a grudging pass.

    I think once you get past the point of the Second Sight report (2014) and the firm's abrupt sacking, the blame and the responsibility becomes extremely heavy. By that time, it was simply impossible to be unaware of the problems with Horizon and indeed the PO's whole approach to prosecutions. I'm pretty sure the Government would have been heavily involved from that point on, and the Beeb's news very much confirms that.

    So we have a whole long stretch of time from 2014 to until the now famous TV series in which there simply is no excuse which will hold.

    I really don't see how the PO Board can escape prosecutions, and personally I hope the CPS will spread its net wide.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,515

    Documents showing Post Office top bosses secretly decided in April 2014 to sack forensic accountants who had found bugs in their IT system have been obtained by the BBC.

    A Post Office board sub-committee, codenamed "Project Sparrow", took the decision with the full knowledge of the government.

    Former sub-postmaster Alan Bates said it was further proof of a "total cover-up".

    The Post Office declined to comment.

    The independent forensic accountants Second Sight played a key role in exposing the scandal, finding flaws in the Horizon computer system which generated false evidence of cash shortfalls at sub-post offices, leading to wrongful prosecutions of sub-postmasters.

    Post Office bosses kept insisting their systems were robust.

    But they made a concession following pressure from MPs, offering to set up a mediation scheme to deal with what they said was a small number of cases.

    The documents reveal the Post Office planned to pay a total of only £1m in "token payments", or compensation, to sub-postmasters as it suppressed evidence of computer bugs in 2014.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    What on earth were these people thinking…
  • MattW said:

    Wages of Woke appear to be coming at expense of CUP?

    Also note that there is virtually no gender gap for Conservatives, compared with mild one for Labour (leaning female) and strong one for Reform (lurching male).

    There's a thought. So Reform UK are the "Lurching male", which seems about right.

    We have Tory, Lab, SNP and LibDem.

    Which is who for the others?

    (Good morning everyone.)



    Conservatives are Gomez - Eccentric, occasionally deals with business but more often whatever he finds is fun.
    Labour are Pugsley - Deviant, somewhat dim, led astray by those they deal with (esp Wednesday).
    Lib Dems are Wednesday - Machiavellian, always up to mischief, will do anything, say anything and betray anyone to do what they want.

    Wednesday was always my favourite character.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    It's a disgusting decision. The Chagossians have been denied justice for too long. Let them return to their homeland. There's nothing "wokey" about the idea that people shouldn't be forcibly removed from their homes and have their lives destroyed by high handed imperial powers. Their return doesn't prevent the US continuing to operate the base on Diego Garcia. The fight will continue and in the end justice will prevail, whatever this unelected privileged POS says.
    Just celebrate Australia Day, and be happy
    I thought you were trying to go easy on the booze to lose weight
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There are Halal sausages but the vegan ones taste like rubber and I prefer seekh kebabs made from lamb or chicken.
    Vegan sausages are a strange idea to me - if you don’t want to eat meat, why eat something that looks like a meat product.

    Lamb or venison sausages are especially good. I always include some in the mix for BBQ. Can’t see why you couldn’t make them without any pork products at all. Or do they?

    Lamb kebabs made from pieces of real lamb are magnificent, if done right. The marinading is critical.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    edited January 26
    DavidL said:

    US economy grows 3.3% on an annualised basis in the 4th quarter and by 2.5% in 2023 as a whole. The latest growth was driven by consumption and reflects a surge in consumer confidence: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/19/consumer-sentiment-surges-while-inflation-outlook-dips-university-of-michigan-survey-shows.html

    Even Fox News reports that the economy is in a sweet spot with good growth but not so much as to reignite inflation.

    I remain of the view that these economic performance figures are going to drive Biden's popularity northwards during the coming months. If we end up with a Biden Trump rematch (and I think we will) it will not be as close as it was in 2020.

    Disagree, there’s a growing disconnect between raw GDP figures and household real incomes. While the raw jobs numbers haven’t been better for decades, pay rises haven’t kept up with inflation.

    The vast majority of Americans don’t feel, to paraphrase Ronald Regan, that they’re better off now than they were four years ago.

    Also, Q3 annualised growth was 5.2%, so the Q4 number is sharply down.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/02/opinions/2024-presidential-race-trump-biden-key-question-avlon/index.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    In other news, I see the magnificently mediocre Lord David Frost has become the latest high profile Tory to come out in favour of a new Trump presidency, so putting pursuit of culture war ahead of foundational UK national security interests. There is a madness gripping the Tories right now. As someone who does care about this country's future, I genuinely hope it is temporary.

    Trump is not even popular with most Tories, its odd some figures think that's the way to go.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002

    Documents showing Post Office top bosses secretly decided in April 2014 to sack forensic accountants who had found bugs in their IT system have been obtained by the BBC.

    A Post Office board sub-committee, codenamed "Project Sparrow", took the decision with the full knowledge of the government.

    Former sub-postmaster Alan Bates said it was further proof of a "total cover-up".

    The Post Office declined to comment.

    The independent forensic accountants Second Sight played a key role in exposing the scandal, finding flaws in the Horizon computer system which generated false evidence of cash shortfalls at sub-post offices, leading to wrongful prosecutions of sub-postmasters.

    Post Office bosses kept insisting their systems were robust.

    But they made a concession following pressure from MPs, offering to set up a mediation scheme to deal with what they said was a small number of cases.

    The documents reveal the Post Office planned to pay a total of only £1m in "token payments", or compensation, to sub-postmasters as it suppressed evidence of computer bugs in 2014.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    What on earth were these people thinking…
    That there would never be a public inquiry?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,904
    edited January 26
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    So we’re NOT giving back Diego Garcia, in particular we are NOT handing back the Chagos Islands to Mauritius (alias China)

    Good. We have to stop seeing the world as this peaceful place where we can do nice Wokey things just because. The world is a lot more hostile than it was - Russia and China scheme against the entire west

    We have to toughen up

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/jan/26/chagos-islanders-stunned-as-david-cameron-rules-out-return

    It's a disgusting decision. The Chagossians have been denied justice for too long. Let them return to their homeland. There's nothing "wokey" about the idea that people shouldn't be forcibly removed from their homes and have their lives destroyed by high handed imperial powers. Their return doesn't prevent the US continuing to operate the base on Diego Garcia. The fight will continue and in the end justice will prevail, whatever this unelected privileged POS says.
    Just celebrate Australia Day, and be happy
    Let's celebrate great Australia things.

    Like "SOAP", which seems to be uncannily like the Conservative Party.

    Secrets, affairs, deception, factions, fights, back to the 1970s, and Colonel Bufton Tufton ignoring it all...

    https://youtu.be/7wXuWwFru_w?t=7
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240

    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    Simon Jupp, our Tory MP, has suddenly become very visible in Sidmouth. He seems to have woken up to the fact that he has a hell of a fight on his hands with Richard Foord MP to win the new Honiton and Sidmouth constituency. They are having a Question Time style debate next month in Newton Poppleford, which sounds much more quaintly English than it is!

    As a side note, is there any other constituency in England in which two sitting MPs are going head to head? I am slightly surprised H&S is not getting more attention. It looks like a very good LD prospect to me.

    My Facebook feed is absolutely full of adverts from Simon Jupp.

    Which is weird, given that I live in Oxfordshire, but hey - if he wants to spaff away money because his intern can’t work the geotargetting options on Facebook, be my guest.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,019
    Sandpit said:

    So hands up if you thought 246 was a good score on this pitch. How’s about if you thought it was an okay score?

    India now 300/5. This test is lost.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    kle4 said:

    In other news, I see the magnificently mediocre Lord David Frost has become the latest high profile Tory to come out in favour of a new Trump presidency, so putting pursuit of culture war ahead of foundational UK national security interests. There is a madness gripping the Tories right now. As someone who does care about this country's future, I genuinely hope it is temporary.

    Trump is not even popular with most Tories, its odd some figures think that's the way to go.
    Does anyone in the UK actually like Trump, apart from Farage and friends? Sure there’s many Conservatives who consider him the least-worst option, which isn’t really the same. There’s also a surprising number of Americans coming to the same conclusion.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    edited January 26

    IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
    Coming up with some top drawer Brexit b*ll*cks.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68098115.amp

    and even better, this:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68069994
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There are Halal sausages but the vegan ones taste like rubber and I prefer seekh kebabs made from lamb or chicken.
    Vegan sausages are a strange idea to me - if you don’t want to eat meat, why eat something that looks like a meat product.

    Lamb or venison sausages are especially good. I always include some in the mix for BBQ. Can’t see why you couldn’t make them without any pork products at all. Or do they?

    Lamb kebabs made from pieces of real lamb are magnificent, if done right. The marinading is critical.
    Vegans presumably were not always vegan in most cases. They might love the taste but object on moral grounds, so would love to replicate that taste.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,597
    Bangkok is absolutely RAMMED with Chinese
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    kle4 said:

    In other news, I see the magnificently mediocre Lord David Frost has become the latest high profile Tory to come out in favour of a new Trump presidency, so putting pursuit of culture war ahead of foundational UK national security interests. There is a madness gripping the Tories right now. As someone who does care about this country's future, I genuinely hope it is temporary.

    Trump is not even popular with most Tories, its odd some figures think that's the way to go.
    It's a cult.

    Like Brexit...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,147
    For the hundreds of victims of the Post Office Horizon IT scandal, a recently-unearthed memo from 1998 must be almost too painful to read.

    The then Prime Minister, Sir Tony Blair, was warned that Horizon was “flawed” and that an “unsatisfactory” deal with suppliers Fujitsu would leave the government “dependent on a hugely expensive, inflexible, inappropriate and possibly unreliable system”. Fatefully, Blair went ahead with Horizon anyway, and we all know what came next.

    The man who wrote that memo, Sir Geoff Mulgan, is now helping Sir Keir Starmer to prepare for government, and the Labour leader would do well to listen to him. Mulgan worries that political leaders still have too little grip on science and technology, and that mistakes like Horizon are still happening around the world. “I did recommend cancelling it,” he says of Horizon, “and then tried to look at some of the lessons to be learnt...
  • Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    New Post Office revelations on the Beeb, and it appears again that just when you think it couldn't get any worse, it does....

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68079300

    The timing is critical. I think Jo Swinson would have been in charge at the time the cover-up was planned, but of course it is very likely that subsequent Ministers would have been kept informed, even if they were not directly involved.

    In his book on the scandal, Nick Wallis expresses the view that the PO worked very closely with the Government throughout, so this is confirmation, and suggests that there is a lot more to come out still.

    Has anything been heard from Mrs Straw, since? She must surely be due to give evidence at the inquiry
    Nope. Not sure if she is due to appear at the Inquiry, but she is definitely a Person Of Interest.

    And on the subject of missing Person, anyone heard from Kemi Badenoch lately? Shouldn't someone go look for her?
    I suspect that incumbent ministers aren’t allowed to say anything that might be seen as prejudicing the ongoing inquiry.

    Every political party is up to their neck in this scandal though, as you say it’s been going on for decades.
    Rishi Sunak has spoken extensively on the scandal and announced various measures to be taken. If he could say all that, Badenoch could say *something*.
    Yes, I recall Rishi saying something to the effect that it all happened long ago back in the nineties.

    Perhaps Kemi wishes to avoid similar blunders by keeping schtum.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,597
    No sign of the Chinese economy slowing down here. The Chinese tourist is back en masse. Airport heaving. Hotels sold out
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,418
    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There must be. We have been to Muslim countries vacationing and had sausages there and bacon.

    The sausages were chicken ones. Heck do them in the UK too. They are nice but the risk is they can dry out.

    Also the Bacon in Dubai, which was ace, was Turkey bacon. Tasted just like the real McCoy but healthier !!!
    There are halal sausages (heck, there were beef sausages widely available since the dawn of time) and turkey "bacon" and "ham" can be had with pineapple from your local halal pizza place.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,125
    edited January 26
    TimS said:

    At a Lib Dem bash this evening. Consistent story from multiple blue wall constituencies that the Tories are throwing everything at them. Spamming Facebook and other elderly platforms, leaflets through the doors at almost Lib Dem levels, taking up local causes they never showed interest in before like there’s no tomorrow.

    Less of that in the South West by all accounts.

    So it seems they’ve decided to make the blue/yellow marginals in the Home Counties their Stalingrad. Perhaps they’ve given up on the red wall.

    The London exurbs, especially Surrey and South Cambridgeshire, appear to be swinging strongly against the Tories. It would be interesting to hear what @NickPalmer thinks about the seats on his patch.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There are Halal sausages but the vegan ones taste like rubber and I prefer seekh kebabs made from lamb or chicken.
    Vegan sausages are a strange idea to me - if you don’t want to eat meat, why eat something that looks like a meat product.

    Lamb or venison sausages are especially good. I always include some in the mix for BBQ. Can’t see why you couldn’t make them without any pork products at all. Or do they?

    Lamb kebabs made from pieces of real lamb are magnificent, if done right. The marinading is critical.
    Linda McCartney sausages are great, particularly the Rosemary ones. I prefer them to regular sausages for toad in the hole, but they do benefit from being fried rather than grilled.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,418

    Taz said:
    Well as a good Muslim boy I cannot comment on sausages.
    Question - given that fine sausages can be made from lamb, beef and venison, are there halal sausages? If not, why not?
    There are Halal sausages but the vegan ones taste like rubber and I prefer seekh kebabs made from lamb or chicken.
    Vegan sausages are a strange idea to me - if you don’t want to eat meat, why eat something that looks like a meat product.

    Lamb or venison sausages are especially good. I always include some in the mix for BBQ. Can’t see why you couldn’t make them without any pork products at all. Or do they?

    Lamb kebabs made from pieces of real lamb are magnificent, if done right. The marinading is critical.
    Vegan (or as the kool kids say, plant-based) sausage rolls were outselling the real thing in my global megacorp's staff canteens.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,002
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    So hands up if you thought 246 was a good score on this pitch. How’s about if you thought it was an okay score?

    India now 300/5. This test is lost.
    Yup, sadly for us they’re going to get at least 400, England should just call it 1-0 and take the weekend off.
This discussion has been closed.