A quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing – politicalbetting.com

System

A quarrel in a far away country, between people of whom we know nothing – politicalbetting.com

Labour voters tend to think that Keir Starmer has badly handled the party's response to Israel/PalestineWell: 25%Badly: 42%https://t.co/DYftHk3rMp pic.twitter.com/S90UDoRL7B

Read the full story here

TheScreamingEagles

First?

Benpointer

No.

Benpointer

TheScreamingEagles said:

First?

Bad form to post the header then claim a first.

TheScreamingEagles

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First?

Bad form to post the header then claim a first.

Just testing to see if the comments work fine.

Benpointer

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First?

Bad form to post the header then claim a first.

Almost as big a faux pas as replying to your own posts.

noneoftheabove

So Sunak is 24 v 43 and Starmer 25 v 42. Sounds like an absolute game changer, Betfair to flip flop by Sunday?

HYUFD

The problem Starmer has is that while most Labour voters from 2019 instinctively side with the Palestinians, floating voters who voted Conservative in 2019 are either neutral or more sympathetic to the Israelis.

Hence to win the election he is targeting the latter assuming the former have nowhere else to go but a protest vote for the Greens or SNP in safe Labour or SNP seats

Luckyguy1983

Benpointer said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First?

Bad form to post the header then claim a first.

Almost as big as you

Personally I think it's very sad when people edit the post they're quoting when there's no need to do so for text length. It's usually because there's an argument in there they don't like because it undermines their point.

Benpointer

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First?

Bad form to post the header then claim a first.

Almost as big as you

Personally I think it's very sad when people edit the post they're quoting when there's no need to do so for text length. It's usually because there's an argument in there they don't like because it undermines their point.

Btw I encourage you all to vote Labour at the next GE.

I see what you did there!

Malmesbury

Benpointer said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Benpointer said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

First?

Bad form to post the header then claim a first.

Almost as big as you

Personally I think it's very sad when people edit the post they're quoting when there's no need to do so for text length. It's usually because there's an argument in there they don't like because it undermines their point.

Btw I encourage you all to vote Labour at the next GE.

I see what you didn't do there!

Indeed

Benpointer

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

algarkirk

What is clear from the figures (and was obvious anyway) is that those more sympathetic to the Palestinians are not switching from Labour to Tory. They may not like Sir K's approach, but they have nowhere relevant to go.

Sir K has an impossible task, though slightly easier because he has no power. His essential coalition of voters includes millions of Tory voters, and any hint of Corbynism, the friend of Hamas, will lose them in numbers. The votes he needs are split into: Don't know, don't care, Israel preferred, plague on both, support both equally, Palestinians preferred, Hamas preferred.

Even without this multiple dilemma no policy is coherent or sustainable; with that fact in play he can only engage in damage limitation. Good luck.

Sean_F

noneoftheabove said:

So Sunak is 24 v 43 and Starmer 25 v 42. Sounds like an absolute game changer, Betfair to flip flop by Sunday?

27/43 to 18/42. But, I don't see it changing many votes, at this stage.

GIN1138

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

MaxPB

I doubt this is going to shift any votes.

FrankBooth

So neither are doing a very good job it seems. Not sure what people expect them to do mind.

I think the failure is with Israel which hasn't clearly set out what it is trying to do. Lots of calls for a ceasefire but what then? Hamas will simply take the chance to rearm and get ready again. What is to be done about the supply of weapons from Iran?

Also I'd like to see some polling on antisemitism.

Gardenwalker

The truth is the issue is increasingly treacherous.
About the only people who I’ve seen manage the terrain well are Barack Obama and that clip of Baroness Warsi.

In the circs, Keir is doing OK-to-well.

Chris

It seems to me that few people think either leader has handled the issue very well. so the top category may as well be ignored.

And if the top category is ignored, then the responses to Starmer are pretty evenly spread, while Sunak has pleased former Tory supporters and alienated former Labour supporters. But isn't that what one would expect to happen anyway?

It may be causing Starmer internal problems in his party, but I don't see anything in those figures to suggest a significant effect on public support.

Alanbrooke

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

Gardenwalker

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

Wishful thinking because the Tories have so badly shit the bed.

Having said that UK Labour needs to look at NZ Labour for what happens when you over promise and badly fail to deliver.

But Starmer is no Ardern.
His top team is reasonably impressive and I expect his Cabinet to be more so (Benn etc).

Gardenwalker

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

A claustrophobic temple.

Leon

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

FrankBooth

Gardenwalker said:

The truth is the issue is increasingly treacherous.
About the only people who I’ve seen manage the terrain well are Barack Obama and that clip of Baroness Warsi.

In the circs, Keir is doing OK-to-well.

I haven't seen too much of Baroness Warsi. Though she did deem it necessary to correct Rishi Sunak after he talked about antisemitism to say that all forms of racism are unacceptable. Gleefully retweeted by St James O'Brien. Rather ignoring the fact that Jews appear more fearful than any other group of the population, there had been an appalling massacre of them the week before andd the Met are advising against the dangers of a pro-Israel rally.

TheScreamingEagles

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

Benpointer

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

I have no doubt people were saying the same in 1997. The 13 years of Labour government that followed was of course vastly superior to the shambles of the past 13 years.

Malmesbury

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl for me. It is simple, but effective in presenting the context around the pictures. So much more than just hanging stuff on the wall by the year.

OldKingCole

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

biggles

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

This. All that matters. Starmer and more than half of the Shadow Cabinet are ready for Government. The Labour Party beyond that is not. Of course the Tories may blow up even more severely in Opposition such that he gets away with it, but I think a Tory Party with a sniff of a return to power will not.

Stuartinromford

Sean_F said:

noneoftheabove said:

So Sunak is 24 v 43 and Starmer 25 v 42. Sounds like an absolute game changer, Betfair to flip flop by Sunday?

27/43 to 18/42. But, I don't see it changing many votes, at this stage.

For it to matter, it has to switch a meaningful number of votes in the right places.

Making crude, unevidenced assumptions about which Labour supporters are potentially unhappy, how many of them live in likely battleground seats for 2024/5?

Anyhoo....
1. As we prepare to plunge ourselves into winter darkness that is the end of BST, the continued Labour lead means the Conservatives have been in the dark for a long while now.

🔴 Lab 46% (-2)
🔵 Con 26% (-1)
🟠 LD 10% (NC)
⚪ Ref 7% (NC)
🟢 Green 6% (+2)
🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

https://twitter.com/wethinkpolling/status/1717905443115151685

biggles

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

I would read that as him being in it for the viral clips on social media. Means he thinks the comeback is on.

Not sure how I’d feel about it if I paid him megabucks for an exclusive column…

tlg86

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

Not sure about one term Labour government, but I agree that once in government, all of the **** becomes their problem. Things are very different to 1997.

Richard_Tyndall

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Selebian

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

I old enough to remember a time when disgraced former MPs joined RT.

NickyBreakspear

Weekly polling average:



Slight movement down by the Conseratives - reaction to the by-elections?

This week also saw the return of PeoplePolling, last seen on 31 March. Still consistently showing the Conservatives at 5% lower than the average.

rottenborough

On topic:

QTWTAIN?

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

"My friends, as I have discovered myself, there are no disasters, only opportunities. And, indeed, opportunities for fresh disasters!"

Malmesbury

Stuartinromford said:

Sean_F said:

noneoftheabove said:

So Sunak is 24 v 43 and Starmer 25 v 42. Sounds like an absolute game changer, Betfair to flip flop by Sunday?

27/43 to 18/42. But, I don't see it changing many votes, at this stage.

For it to matter, it has to switch a meaningful number of votes in the right places.

Making crude, unevidenced assumptions about which Labour supporters are potentially unhappy, how many of them live in likely battleground seats for 2024/5?

Anyhoo....
1. As we prepare to plunge ourselves into winter darkness that is the end of BST, the continued Labour lead means the Conservatives have been in the dark for a long while now.

🔴 Lab 46% (-2)
🔵 Con 26% (-1)
🟠 LD 10% (NC)
⚪ Ref 7% (NC)
🟢 Green 6% (+2)
🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

https://twitter.com/wethinkpolling/status/1717905443115151685

The Conservatives are on core vote. The Lib Dem 10% are not going to switch to Labour. Ref is Spare Conservatives.

So it's a few percent between the Greens and SNP.

Labour are on maximum vote for our current structure of politics.

squareroot2

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

Best place for the loon. I stood for over an hour at Basel Airport this morning queuing at passport control whilst EU nationals waltzed past me. The Frogs loved holding us up. Thanks Boris. You give politics a filthy name.

Gardenwalker

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

williamglenn

Gardenwalker said:

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

Wishful thinking because the Tories have so badly shit the bed.

Having said that UK Labour needs to look at NZ Labour for what happens when you over promise and badly fail to deliver.

But Starmer is no Ardern.
His top team is reasonably impressive and I expect his Cabinet to be more so (Benn etc).

If Labour unravel in office, things could go in several other directions than a Tory revival. Despite FPTP it might provide an opportunity for a Macron-like figure to emerge.

Sean_F

Stuartinromford said:

Sean_F said:

noneoftheabove said:

So Sunak is 24 v 43 and Starmer 25 v 42. Sounds like an absolute game changer, Betfair to flip flop by Sunday?

27/43 to 18/42. But, I don't see it changing many votes, at this stage.

For it to matter, it has to switch a meaningful number of votes in the right places.

Making crude, unevidenced assumptions about which Labour supporters are potentially unhappy, how many of them live in likely battleground seats for 2024/5?

Anyhoo....
1. As we prepare to plunge ourselves into winter darkness that is the end of BST, the continued Labour lead means the Conservatives have been in the dark for a long while now.

🔴 Lab 46% (-2)
🔵 Con 26% (-1)
🟠 LD 10% (NC)
⚪ Ref 7% (NC)
🟢 Green 6% (+2)
🟡 SNP 3% (+1)

https://twitter.com/wethinkpolling/status/1717905443115151685

i could see something like this causing trouble for Labour in the future - but in government. Above and beyond Corbyn and his gobshites, a section of Labour voters do care very strongly about this issue.

Alanbrooke

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Ive been to Paris quite a lot and my son has just moved there. Last time I did the Sainte Chappelle ( overrated ) and Notre Dame. ND was really good as they had an exhibition on the restoration which was really well presented. The other thing I have been advised to see is the catacombs not sure if they will be as good as the hype.

GIN1138

Benpointer said:

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

I have no doubt people were saying the same in 1997. The 13 years of Labour government that followed was of course vastly superior to the shambles of the past 13 years.

Erm, no, I don't think so. By 1997 it was clear that Blair was in complete and total control of his party - The only possible cloud on the horizon was possibly Blair and Brown not getting on but nobody really thought that would be an issue. Otherwise it was clear Labour would be in power for a longgggg time.

Thing is this is not 1997. In 1997 Labour had a good economy and plenty of money to spend. This time Labour will be governing without any money to spend - That will fundamentally be their problem.

Add to that the party is still well to the left of SKS (as we see over the complaints of Starmers handling of the Israel/Palestine crisis) plus all the other issues like Rejoiners expecting a reversal of Brexit (which isn't going to happen) the Unions having a taste for strikes (that will be compounded by Lab governing without any money) Net Zero, etc etc.

I think a scenario like 1974-1979 is very plausible for the 2024-2029 Parliament. More likely than the Parliament proceeding like 1997-2001 anyway...

Stark_Dawning

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Yes, there must be a financial angle here: I can't really see Boris doing TV work just for his own amusement. I wonder if The Mail has gotten bored with him and isn't renewing his contract. Boris's columns were rather predicated on how better the world would be if only he, Boris, was running things. That's obviously now been knocked into a cocked hat. Everyone now needs to work out exactly what Boris is for.

Benpointer

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

Its focus is a big plus imo. Too many art galleries try to cover far too much, and do it poorly.

I may be biased by my love of the Dutch Golden Age, of course.

Alanbrooke

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

That should kill the ratings.

Benpointer

GIN1138 said:

Benpointer said:

GIN1138 said:

Don't think it will derail SKS getting to Downing St. as the British public have made up their minds. They want the Tories OUT!

It is, however, a big warning sign of what's going to happen when Labour get into government... Not just this but over so many things such as strikes, Brexit, net zero, probably house building... Labour is very likely to get into power and rapidly disintegrate.

One term Lab government, IMO.

I have no doubt people were saying the same in 1997. The 13 years of Labour government that followed was of course vastly superior to the shambles of the past 13 years.

Erm, no, I don't think so. By 1997 it was clear that Blair was in complete and total control of his party - The only possible cloud on the horizon was possibly Blair and Brown not getting on but nobody really thought that would be an issue but otherwise it was clear Labour would be in power for a longgggg time.

Thing is this is not 1997. In 1997 Labour had a good economy and plenty of money to spend. This time Labour will be governing without any money to spend - That will fundamentally be their problem.

Add to that the party is still well to the left of SKS (as we see over the complaints of Starmers handling of the Israel/Palestine crisis) plus all the other issues like Rejoiners expecting a reversal of Brexit (which isn't going to happen) the Unions having a taste for strikes (that will be compounded by Lab governing without any money) Net Zero, etc etc.

I think a scenario like 1974-1979 is very plausible for the 2024-2029 Parliament. More likely than the Parliament proceeding like 1997-2001 anyway...

Time will tell.

AlistairM

The only way this will make any difference at a GE is if Labour has had some sort of split or splinter group caused by Starmer's current approach. We all know the big divisions Labour has had in the very recent past over anti-semitism (e.g. Luciana Berger) and there is a non-zero chance that their might be a breakaway. There have already been quite a few councillor resignations over Starmer's policy.

Gardenwalker

The Pompidou is always good.
Better than it’s two credible rivals, the Tate Modern and MoMA.

biggles

squareroot2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

Best place for the loon. I stood for over an hour at Basel Airport this morning queuing at passport control whilst EU nationals waltzed past me. The Frogs loved holding us up. Thanks Boris. You give politics a filthy name.

I’ve heard this rubbish before. There are many valid criticisms of Brexit but this isn’t one of them.

I have travelled a lot in Europe post-Brexit. Sometimes it’s been quicker to be non-EU (holiday destinations with e-gates), usually it’s the same, very occasionally it’s been slower. Overall? No change.

Leon

Gardenwalker said:

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

The National Gallery is close to perfect. Not as overwhelmingly big as the Louvre or the Met but it covers all of European art and almost everything is a masterpiece

I’d put it alongside the National Gallery in Washington DC - which is similar in its smaller size plus high quality

But then I think of the Prado, and the Kunsthistoriche and the Hermitage. Which are hardly lacking….

rcs1000

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

Its focus is a big plus imo. Too many art galleries try to cover far too much, and do it poorly.

I may be biased by my love of the Dutch Golden Age, of course.

Well, that's a great PB question.

What are the best *small* art galleries in the world?

The requirement being that you can see all the exhibits in an hour.

I would nominate the Hammer in Los Angeles, with an honourable mention for the Santa Barbara Museum of Art.

Gardenwalker

Boris and Farage on GB “News”.

But I don’t doubt that Boris will be reasonably entertaining. Comic bollocks is actually his metier, he’s a better “performer” than writer for sure.

biggles

AlistairM said:

The only way this will make any difference at a GE is if Labour has had some sort of split or splinter group caused by Starmer's current approach. We all know the big divisions Labour has had in the very recent past over anti-semitism (e.g. Luciana Berger) and there is a non-zero chance that their might be a breakaway. There have already been quite a few councillor resignations over Starmer's policy.

It may persuade Corbyn to stand in London. I assume that’s partly why the Mayor came out for a “ceasefire” (whatever that silly idea means in this context - presumably a one sided one) as he did.

Nigelb

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

The Gulbenkian, then.
Quite a small art section, but what they have, and its range, is amazing.

Leon

The Vatican museums aren’t exactly shit, either

viewcode

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

He thought the Daily Mail was too intellectual

Alanbrooke

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

Its focus is a big plus imo. Too many art galleries try to cover far too much, and do it poorly.

I may be biased by my love of the Dutch Golden Age, of course.

When Cruyff was captain you mean ?

Benpointer

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I like the Musee D'Orsay - a lot. But pretty much every painting in the Mauritshuis is gorgeous. I'd have any one of them on my wall at home.

Contrast with the Munch museum we were at in Oslo on Wednesday. That's very interesting but I's struggle to live with any of his paintings. Maybe one or two landscapes at a push.

viewcode

Stark_Dawning said:

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Yes, there must be a financial angle here: I can't really see Boris doing TV work just for his own amusement. I wonder if The Mail has gotten bored with him and isn't renewing his contract. Boris's columns were rather predicated on how better the world would be if only he, Boris, was running things. That's obviously now been knocked into a cocked hat. Everyone now needs to work out exactly what Boris is for.

What is Boris for
Boris is for rent to the highest bidder
That's what Boris is for

Gardenwalker

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

The National Gallery is close to perfect. Not as overwhelmingly big as the Louvre or the Met but it covers all of European art and almost everything is a masterpiece

I’d put it alongside the National Gallery in Washington DC - which is similar in its smaller size plus high quality

But then I think of the Prado, and the Kunsthistoriche and the Hermitage. Which are hardly lacking….

I have only been to the Prado once, and it blew me away. But I really like Spanish art - Goya and El Greco and Velazquez etc.

The Kunst is a bit of an also-ran.
I’ve not been to the Hermitage, and the way the world is going maybe I never will…

ydoethur

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Given they have no sense at all, that isn't exactly hard.

I wonder what they are paying him and how they afford it, though. They can't be exactly wealthy given how insignificant they are.

biggles

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

The National Gallery is close to perfect. Not as overwhelmingly big as the Louvre or the Met but it covers all of European art and almost everything is a masterpiece

I’d put it alongside the National Gallery in Washington DC - which is similar in its smaller size plus high quality

But then I think of the Prado, and the Kunsthistoriche and the Hermitage. Which are hardly lacking….

Also, the National Gallery does (or did) a lovely breakfast in the restaurant bit on Trafalgar Square.

Gardenwalker

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Given they have no sense at all, that isn't exactly hard.

I wonder what they are paying him and how they afford it, though. They can't be exactly wealthy given how insignificant they are.

Sigh.
The point of GB News is not to make money.

Gardenwalker

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

The Gulbenkian, then.
Quite a small art section, but what they have, and its range, is amazing.

And to think, it could have been in London, if it were not for short-sighted British mandarins.

Benpointer

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Ive been to Paris quite a lot and my son has just moved there. Last time I did the Sainte Chappelle ( overrated ) and Notre Dame. ND was really good as they had an exhibition on the restoration which was really well presented. The other thing I have been advised to see is the catacombs not sure if they will be as good as the hype.

I have yet to see the Sainte Chappelle (the lift has been broken every time we've tried - I mean, I am grateful and surprised there even is a lift but it would be nice for it to work). Having studied gothic architecture in an evening class, It really would like to see the example for myself.

ydoethur

Gardenwalker said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Given they have no sense at all, that isn't exactly hard.

I wonder what they are paying him and how they afford it, though. They can't be exactly wealthy given how insignificant they are.

Sigh.
The point of GB News is not to make money.

No, but they must have *some* money. Where are they getting it from? If their sponsors are coughing up more given what a fiasco it's been so far they must be even thicker than I thought.

ydoethur

viewcode said:

Stark_Dawning said:

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Yes, there must be a financial angle here: I can't really see Boris doing TV work just for his own amusement. I wonder if The Mail has gotten bored with him and isn't renewing his contract. Boris's columns were rather predicated on how better the world would be if only he, Boris, was running things. That's obviously now been knocked into a cocked hat. Everyone now needs to work out exactly what Boris is for.

What is Boris for
Boris is for rent to the highest bidder
That's why Boris is a whore

FTFY

Leon

squareroot2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

Best place for the loon. I stood for over an hour at Basel Airport this morning queuing at passport control whilst EU nationals waltzed past me. The Frogs loved holding us up. Thanks Boris. You give politics a filthy name.

Yeah?

In Catania airport the Italians have introduced a special lane for Brits (plus Americans, Japanese, Koreans, the usual). They’ve put in scanners and after the scanner a man stamps your passport in half a second

The EU queue and “approved nations” queue were the exact same size and moved at the exact same pace

Honestly, stop whining about passport queues. The problems are being ironed out and pretty soon technology will render all passport queues and eventually all passports a thing of the past

EPG

In one sense, there's little either man could do as long as America keeps arming them - a big difference compared to, say, apartheid South Africa, where Reagan/Bush were balanced by Congress. In another sense, most voters aren't sympathetic to bombing Gaza and it would have been a vote winner to be more clearly against it, especially costlessly from opposition.

AlistairM

Have a look at the Hamas headquarters. Right beneath a hospital. Hamas do not care about any civilian lives lost.

The Israeli Defense Force has released an Infographic showing the Hamas Headquarters and Terrorist Complex beneath the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City.
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1717909792851677399?s=20

Nigelb

rcs1000 said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

Its focus is a big plus imo. Too many art galleries try to cover far too much, and do it poorly.

I may be biased by my love of the Dutch Golden Age, of course.

Well, that's a great PB question.

What are the best *small* art galleries in the world?

The requirement being that you can see all the exhibits in an hour.

I would nominate the Hammer in Los Angeles, with an honourable mention for the Santa Barbara Museum of Art.

The Gulbenkian then.
Confine yourself to the paintings, and you could do that.

Stark_Dawning

Gardenwalker said:

Boris and Farage on GB “News”.

But I don’t doubt that Boris will be reasonably entertaining. Comic bollocks is actually his metier, he’s a better “performer” than writer for sure.

Curiously, GB News can only be hiring him because of Brexit. Everything else he's done - Covid lockdowns, Net Zero, Levelling Up etc. - would deemed by their audience as deeply socialist and dangerous.

Alanbrooke

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Ive been to Paris quite a lot and my son has just moved there. Last time I did the Sainte Chappelle ( overrated ) and Notre Dame. ND was really good as they had an exhibition on the restoration which was really well presented. The other thing I have been advised to see is the catacombs not sure if they will be as good as the hype.

I have yet to see the Sainte Chappelle (the lift has been broken every time we've tried - I mean, I am grateful and surprised there even is a lift but it would be nice for it to work). Having studied gothic architecture in an evening class, It really would like to see the example for myself.

When I went it was extremely busy, I wished I had looked at the guides to see if there was a slack time. If you can clear the tourists there's more to look at.

squareroot2

biggles said:

squareroot2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

Best place for the loon. I stood for over an hour at Basel Airport this morning queuing at passport control whilst EU nationals waltzed past me. The Frogs loved holding us up. Thanks Boris. You give politics a filthy name.

I’ve heard this rubbish before. There are many valid criticisms of Brexit but this isn’t one of them.

I have travelled a lot in Europe post-Brexit. Sometimes it’s been quicker to be non-EU (holiday destinations with e-gates), usually it’s the same, very occasionally it’s been slower. Overall? No change.

Nah its dreadful if you are British

Gardenwalker

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Ive been to Paris quite a lot and my son has just moved there. Last time I did the Sainte Chappelle ( overrated ) and Notre Dame. ND was really good as they had an exhibition on the restoration which was really well presented. The other thing I have been advised to see is the catacombs not sure if they will be as good as the hype.

I have yet to see the Sainte Chappelle (the lift has been broken every time we've tried - I mean, I am grateful and surprised there even is a lift but it would be nice for it to work). Having studied gothic architecture in an evening class, It really would like to see the example for myself.

When I went it was extremely busy, I wished I had looked at the guides to see if there was a slack time. If you can clear the tourists there's more to look at.

Go to the Musee Carnavalet.

Benpointer

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

The Gulbenkian, then.
Quite a small art section, but what they have, and its range, is amazing.

Will check it out when next in Lisbon.

EPG

AlistairM said:

Have a look at the Hamas headquarters. Right beneath a hospital. Hamas do not care about any civilian lives lost.

The Israeli Defense Force has released an Infographic showing the Hamas Headquarters and Terrorist Complex beneath the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City.
https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1717909792851677399?s=20

I suppose that legitimises mass murder of people unable to comply with the expulsion order, so.

Nigelb

Gardenwalker said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

The Gulbenkian, then.
Quite a small art section, but what they have, and its range, is amazing.

And to think, it could have been in London, if it were not for short-sighted British mandarins.

Yes, but you probably couldn't have kept turtles in the gardens.

Stuartinromford

Gardenwalker said:

Boris and Farage on GB “News”.

But I don’t doubt that Boris will be reasonably entertaining. Comic bollocks is actually his metier, he’s a better “performer” than writer for sure.

Isn't there a decent amount of evidence that, as a live performer with a sober audience, he's actually pretty hopeless?

And that his turn, such as it is, wears very thin very fast.

Benpointer

Leon said:

The Vatican museums aren’t exactly shit, either

There are dozens of 'not exactly shit' museums and galleries but we've been blown away by the Mauritshuis today, just saying.

Anyway, a discussion on the finest art galleries in the world has to beat best and worst* carbs surely?

(*Grits, definitely.)

Nigelb

Stuartinromford said:

Gardenwalker said:

Boris and Farage on GB “News”.

But I don’t doubt that Boris will be reasonably entertaining. Comic bollocks is actually his metier, he’s a better “performer” than writer for sure.

Isn't there a decent amount of evidence that, as a live performer with a sober audience, he's actually pretty hopeless?

And that his turn, such as it is, wears very thin very fast.

'Thin' doesn't seem apt.

Alanbrooke

Gardenwalker said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Ive been to Paris quite a lot and my son has just moved there. Last time I did the Sainte Chappelle ( overrated ) and Notre Dame. ND was really good as they had an exhibition on the restoration which was really well presented. The other thing I have been advised to see is the catacombs not sure if they will be as good as the hype.

I have yet to see the Sainte Chappelle (the lift has been broken every time we've tried - I mean, I am grateful and surprised there even is a lift but it would be nice for it to work). Having studied gothic architecture in an evening class, It really would like to see the example for myself.

When I went it was extremely busy, I wished I had looked at the guides to see if there was a slack time. If you can clear the tourists there's more to look at.

Go to the Musee Carnavalet.

Thanks, Ill do that, its a short walk from where my son lives.

FrankBooth

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The lack of sympathy being displayed towards British Jews right now worries me a lot.

Carnyx

Nigelb said:

Gardenwalker said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

The Gulbenkian, then.
Quite a small art section, but what they have, and its range, is amazing.

And to think, it could have been in London, if it were not for short-sighted British mandarins.

Yes, but you probably couldn't have kept turtles in the gardens.

https://wildsouthlondon.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/terrapins-in-crystal-palace/

Andy_JS

"Thousands of banned dogs living at home with owners"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67217993

Nigelb

Carnyx said:

Nigelb said:

Gardenwalker said:

Nigelb said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

The Gulbenkian, then.
Quite a small art section, but what they have, and its range, is amazing.

And to think, it could have been in London, if it were not for short-sighted British mandarins.

Yes, but you probably couldn't have kept turtles in the gardens.

https://wildsouthlondon.wordpress.com/2015/09/20/terrapins-in-crystal-palace/

Then there's no excusing it.

Nigelb

Andy_JS said:

"Thousands of banned dogs living at home with owners"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67217993

Sounds crowded.

Jim_Miller

Off topic, but on politics: This agreement -- assuming it is followed by similar agreements with the other automakers -- will help Biden, especially in the Midwest: 'Ford workers are giving positive feedback on the new contract their union negotiated with the automaker, with some calling the 25 percent raise and other details “historic.”'
source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/10/26/ford-uaw-contract-strike/

The article has fewer details than I would like, but it appears that the new contract will treat new employees more fairly. (For some years the Big Three have had a two-tier pay systems, in which new employees were paid significantly less.)

Leon

Gardenwalker said:

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

The National Gallery is close to perfect. Not as overwhelmingly big as the Louvre or the Met but it covers all of European art and almost everything is a masterpiece

I’d put it alongside the National Gallery in Washington DC - which is similar in its smaller size plus high quality

But then I think of the Prado, and the Kunsthistoriche and the Hermitage. Which are hardly lacking….

I have only been to the Prado once, and it blew me away. But I really like Spanish art - Goya and El Greco and Velazquez etc.

The Kunst is a bit of an also-ran.
I’ve not been to the Hermitage, and the way the world is going maybe I never will…

I’ve been to every single great museum in the world. No joke


The ones in DC this spring were the last on my list

So I feel quite confident of my opinion here

The Hermitage is mindblowingly good. Easily makes the top 5. Also a peerless location

What’s more, you kind of expect it to have phenomenal art from 13th-19th century. Collected by the tsars. But it ALSO has a fabulous modern art collection up to about 1930 (iirc). Where did they get that?!

Presumably it was seized from aristos fleeing the revolution and afterwards. Unexpected

Andy_JS

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

The National Gallery is close to perfect. Not as overwhelmingly big as the Louvre or the Met but it covers all of European art and almost everything is a masterpiece

I’d put it alongside the National Gallery in Washington DC - which is similar in its smaller size plus high quality

But then I think of the Prado, and the Kunsthistoriche and the Hermitage. Which are hardly lacking….

A good thing about the National Gallery is that it doesn't usually get really crowded.

Benpointer

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Alanbrooke said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

Musee D'Orsay for me, its about the only thing worth visiting in Paris.

I wouldn't say it is the only thing worth visiting but it is certainly the shining gem. I much prefer the Musee D'Orsay to the Louvre.

Ive been to Paris quite a lot and my son has just moved there. Last time I did the Sainte Chappelle ( overrated ) and Notre Dame. ND was really good as they had an exhibition on the restoration which was really well presented. The other thing I have been advised to see is the catacombs not sure if they will be as good as the hype.

I have yet to see the Sainte Chappelle (the lift has been broken every time we've tried - I mean, I am grateful and surprised there even is a lift but it would be nice for it to work). Having studied gothic architecture in an evening class, It really would like to see the example for myself.

When I went it was extremely busy, I wished I had looked at the guides to see if there was a slack time. If you can clear the tourists there's more to look at.

We're in Paris in February, it's definitely on my list. Good shout about checking for quiet times.

Malmesbury

ydoethur said:

Gardenwalker said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Given they have no sense at all, that isn't exactly hard.

I wonder what they are paying him and how they afford it, though. They can't be exactly wealthy given how insignificant they are.

Sigh.
The point of GB News is not to make money.

No, but they must have *some* money. Where are they getting it from? If their sponsors are coughing up more given what a fiasco it's been so far they must be even thicker than I thought.

Given that you can get Zillions for NftCryptoSpaceLaunch, Gammon British News seems almost sane as an investment.

I mean, the audience exists, the channel actually exists, the channel managing to reach the audience doesn't actually defy the laws of physics.....

BartholomewRoberts

FrankBooth said:

Gardenwalker said:

The truth is the issue is increasingly treacherous.
About the only people who I’ve seen manage the terrain well are Barack Obama and that clip of Baroness Warsi.

In the circs, Keir is doing OK-to-well.

I haven't seen too much of Baroness Warsi. Though she did deem it necessary to correct Rishi Sunak after he talked about antisemitism to say that all forms of racism are unacceptable. Gleefully retweeted by St James O'Brien. Rather ignoring the fact that Jews appear more fearful than any other group of the population, there had been an appalling massacre of them the week before andd the Met are advising against the dangers of a pro-Israel rally.

"All lives matter"

Leon

Nigelb said:

rcs1000 said:

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

Benpointer said:

O/T The Mauritshuis in The Hague must surely be the finest art gallery in the world. A perfect gem.

No, absurd

It only has Dutch golden age art, really. Which js amazing but rather limiting…

It is one of the finest SMALL museums in the world

Its focus is a big plus imo. Too many art galleries try to cover far too much, and do it poorly.

I may be biased by my love of the Dutch Golden Age, of course.

Well, that's a great PB question.

What are the best *small* art galleries in the world?

The requirement being that you can see all the exhibits in an hour.

I would nominate the Hammer in Los Angeles, with an honourable mention for the Santa Barbara Museum of Art.

The Gulbenkian then.
Confine yourself to the paintings, and you could do that.

No. Absurd American bias

The Courtauld beats all of those

Nigelb

Benpointer said:

Leon said:

The Vatican museums aren’t exactly shit, either

There are dozens of 'not exactly shit' museums and galleries but we've been blown away by the Mauritshuis today, just saying.

Anyway, a discussion on the finest art galleries in the world has to beat best and worst* carbs surely?

(*Grits, definitely.)

You get some nice natas and coffee in the cafe, too - and outside of tourist season, it's pretty quiet..

Alanbrooke

Andy_JS said:

Leon said:

Gardenwalker said:

I actually love the Met.
It’s vast - too vast - but it lacks the statist pomposity of both the Louvre and the National Gallery.

The National Gallery is close to perfect. Not as overwhelmingly big as the Louvre or the Met but it covers all of European art and almost everything is a masterpiece

I’d put it alongside the National Gallery in Washington DC - which is similar in its smaller size plus high quality

But then I think of the Prado, and the Kunsthistoriche and the Hermitage. Which are hardly lacking….

A good thing about the National Gallery is that it doesn't usually get really crowded.

I went to the Wallace Collection about this time last year, really enjoyed it.

Benpointer

Leon said:

squareroot2 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Boris Johnson to join GB News as a presenter.

Best place for the loon. I stood for over an hour at Basel Airport this morning queuing at passport control whilst EU nationals waltzed past me. The Frogs loved holding us up. Thanks Boris. You give politics a filthy name.

Yeah?

In Catania airport the Italians have introduced a special lane for Brits (plus Americans, Japanese, Koreans, the usual). They’ve put in scanners and after the scanner a man stamps your passport in half a second

The EU queue and “approved nations” queue were the exact same size and moved at the exact same pace

Honestly, stop whining about passport queues. The problems are being ironed out and pretty soon technology will render all passport queues and eventually all passports a thing of the past

That's because our AI overlords won't allow us to travel.

Nigelb

Ivanka Trump Loses Bid to Block Subpoena Forcing Her Testimony in Her Father’s New York Civil Fraud Case
The former president's daughter was initially a defendant in the civil fraud case, until succeeding in dismissing the counts against her on appeal
https://themessenger.com/politics/ivanka-trump-must-testify-fraud-judge-engoron

Gardenwalker

ydoethur said:

Gardenwalker said:

ydoethur said:

OldKingCole said:

Just flashed up that Boris Johnson is going to join GB News as a presenter!

They must have more money than sense. Or the books aren’t doing as well as we thought!

Given they have no sense at all, that isn't exactly hard.

I wonder what they are paying him and how they afford it, though. They can't be exactly wealthy given how insignificant they are.

Sigh.
The point of GB News is not to make money.

No, but they must have *some* money. Where are they getting it from? If their sponsors are coughing up more given what a fiasco it's been so far they must be even thicker than I thought.

The owner is Chris Chandler’s Dubai-based investment vehicle, Legatum, funder of inter alia the “free market, pro-Brexit” lobby group, the Legatum Institute…and the Brexit-funding multi-millionaire hedge fund manager Paul Marshall.