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The Archbishop’s attack on the small boats plan makes several front pages – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    No. But a fascinating trip is North to South Kentucky. From the stud farms and white picket fences of Lexington and Louisville to the people selling their socks on their porches as you near Cumberland Gap.

    Cincinnati? All I remember is the brown and beige airport.
    Ta

    Yes I think this is the only way of making the trip tolerable. Grit my teeth and do the city (Jeez) but then rent a car and do a roadtrip around Kentucky, Virginia and the Carolinas. And that WILL be interesting

    I could even loop in Washington DC. Never been, and surely everyone needs to go at least once
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    You must NOT try “Cincinnati Chilli” - when I tried it the one and only time I did the shredded cheese was added by bare hand by a lady with nail extensions…..

    The former train station is a quite striking Art Deco structure, now a museum, then there’s a global multinational headquarters nicknamed “The Dolly Parton” building…Don’t go “Over the Rhein”….and there’s a never completed underground railway system.

    The standard defence was “it’s a great place to bring up children”…..

    Only ever visited from the other side of the planet - the advantage was with a 12h time difference there was no need to adjust my watch….
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    Cincinnati is the type of middle American place that decides Presidential elections so you might get a better feel for 2024 there. Former US President Taft was born there. The late Jerry Springer was also its Mayor I believe
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649
    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP


    . .
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,916
    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    This might be an opportunity to find sublime joy in the mundane and the ordinary.

    Might be.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    You didn't share this piece of priceless tw@ttery.
    ..But staunch Brexiteers within the Conservative ranks have criticised the change, with former business secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg accusing Mr Sunak of "behaving like a Borgia"...

    I'm curious - is he implying adultery, incest, theft, bribery, or murder ?
    (I think we can rule out simony.)
    That is Kemi's leadership hopes over then. The ERG and Conservative right won't forgive her abandoning repeal of EU laws. If the Tories lose the next general election she will be seen as linked as much to the defeated Sunak as Hunt now
    Who on earth will the party pick then if even she's now seen as not batty enough?
    Steve Barclay
    I for one am delighted Kemi is showing common sense and if she has upset Mogg good on her

    The ERG need putting in their box
    That will only happen when moderates like you vote against the Tory party. Til then they have licence to do what they're doing.
    It is a process that needs to be fought within the party much like Starmer in labour
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    A great pleasure to be on the completely barking list.

    Although my therapist says I am normal.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    Cincinnati? All I remember is the brown and beige airport.
    And that’s in Kentucky…..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    eek said:

    Different Turkish election poll

    https://twitter.com/SerArastirma/status/1656659252088569856

    May 14 Presidential Preferences

    Recep Tayyip Erdogan: 45.2%
    Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu: 52.1%
    Sinan Ogan : 2.7%

    Between 7 May and 10 May, face-to-face interviews were held with 2795 voters in 26 provinces. Confidence interval was calculated as 95% and margin of error was calculated as ±1.5.

    Anyone know what's likely to happen? Are the polls reliable? Will Erdoğan go quietly if he loses?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Dialup said:

    A great pleasure to be on the completely barking list.

    Although my therapist says I am normal.

    I'd be very disappointed if I were ever described as such.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    I'm not talking about the Jan riot. Other than provoking it in the moment I'm not sure he had much of a clue himself what was going on there. The other ways he tried to rig the election were more the attempted 'coup'. And this was plotted over a period not adlibbed. What would it look like after another 4 years of him in the WH? I don't know but it's a bit irrational to be relaxed about it.
    I'm pretty relaxed about the state of democracy in the US. What probability do you ascribe to the US govt being overthrown by force in the next five years.
    Not a military event with soldiers and tanks etc, an insidious, top to bottom corruption of politics and the judiciary. The chance that American democracy is debauched beyond recognition in that way by 4 more years of Trump? - greater than 50% imo.
    How to get a third term must be vexing DJT. The bar for a constitutional amendment is almost impossibly high. Some SCOTUS shenanigans?
    Or a puppet maybe, like Putin arranged for his interregnum.
    Who, though? He certainly doesn't trust anyone and he doesn’t appear to like anyone. The only one I could see is Ivanka but she has quit MAGAworld. I don't think he'd give DJTJ a job licking stamps. Eric, LOL.
    Eric would certainly fancy a crack at it. But, yes, you're right. The family is a disappointment to him. There's no Michael.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I'm disappointed you've got me down as only a "bit" unhinged :(
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649

    OT. Sad to see that Downing Street has bottled reforms that could makea real difference to people's lives.

    No I am not talking about dropping the EU bonfire (which I agree with) but watering down Gove's proposed reforms of leasehold.

    I thought Gove's idea was great and the excuse that Downing street are giving - that there is not enough time for majr reforms before the next election - is weak in the extreme.

    “I have a great idea that will really help people.”
    “But I’ve just been having lunch with lobbyists who hate your idea. And I’m the boss, so there.”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    NASCAR driving experience at Kentucky Speedway (done this, got black flagged)
    Museum of the USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB. Don't drive in the wrong gate or you'll get shot.
    Now I woiuldn't mind seeing that (the museum, not getting shot). Lots of nuclear holocaust hardware to keep Leon happy, right up- to the B-70 Valkyrie prototype and Minuteman and Titan.

    You have to remember that Leon went to Wick and missed the Pulteneytown grand urban development, with its links to L. S. Lowry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited May 2023

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    You must NOT try “Cincinnati Chilli” - when I tried it the one and only time I did the shredded cheese was added by bare hand by a lady with nail extensions…..

    The former train station is a quite striking Art Deco structure, now a museum, then there’s a global multinational headquarters nicknamed “The Dolly Parton” building…Don’t go “Over the Rhein”….and there’s a never completed underground railway system.

    The standard defence was “it’s a great place to bring up children”…..

    Only ever visited from the other side of the planet - the advantage was with a 12h time difference there was no need to adjust my watch….
    I have actually read about Cincinnati chili. It was in this Spectator article...

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/whod-want-to-move-to-america-now/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,894
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    NASCAR driving experience at Kentucky Speedway (done this, got black flagged)
    Museum of the USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB. Don't drive in the wrong gate or you'll get shot.
    It has a Bonsai Society and the Krohn Conservatory has a fine collection of bonsai trees. A museum of fire fighting. A horse trough. A Creation Museum is close by, proving that Adam had a pet dinosaur. Why not hire a coach and we can all go?

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    couldn't even make it onto a list

    OGH
    TSE
    Benpointer and, er...
    Farooq

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,919
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    So in which category do we put Leon?
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    A great pleasure to be on the completely barking list.

    Although my therapist says I am normal.

    I'd be very disappointed if I were ever described as such.
    Why? Who wants to be normal?

    “Sometimes it is the people who no one imagines anything of who do the things that no one can imagine.”
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,983

    OT. Sad to see that Downing Street has bottled reforms that could makea real difference to people's lives.

    No I am not talking about dropping the EU bonfire (which I agree with) but watering down Gove's proposed reforms of leasehold.

    I thought Gove's idea was great and the excuse that Downing street are giving - that there is not enough time for majr reforms before the next election - is weak in the extreme.

    Especially when they have a majority of 70 or so.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    So in which category do we put Leon?
    Definitely a bit unhinged, I'd say.
    As is LuckyGuy1983
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,948

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I'm disappointed you've got me down as only a "bit" unhinged :(
    At least you are on the bloody list
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    Dialup said:

    Let us be honest now.

    If Keir Starmer was PM now the Tories would be saying what a terrible day it was for the economy.

    One thing is for sure, whenever Labour are in power it is generally a bad day for the economy
    Ever day for the economy has been bad for the last 13 years.
    I think you will find that is not necessarily true. The economy recovered quite well after Labour left (the old "there is no money left" moment). It obviously did badly during the pandemic, like the rest of the world, and now it is doing OK according to the independent bank of England.

    I was obviously being facetious anyway. There have been the odd day when the economy has done well under Labour.

    Sadly that isn't likely to happen under Kier, because unlike the Blair government, none of his front bench has any understanding of business. They are just into hosing money at the public sector which they will attempt to do until they have an inevitable Liz Truss moment.
    Load of nonsense. Listen to what Rachel Reeves and Keir have actually said.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    edited May 2023
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    No. But a fascinating trip is North to South Kentucky. From the stud farms and white picket fences of Lexington and Louisville to the people selling their socks on their porches as you near Cumberland Gap.

    Cincinnati? All I remember is the brown and beige airport.
    Ta

    Yes I think this is the only way of making the trip tolerable. Grit my teeth and do the city (Jeez) but then rent a car and do a roadtrip around Kentucky, Virginia and the Carolinas. And that WILL be interesting

    I could even loop in Washington DC. Never been, and surely everyone needs to go at least once
    Washington DC - the Air and Space Museum is the American tech equivalent of an Italian Renaiisance gallery in Rome or Florsence. Just walking in, and seeing Lindbergh's plane, the Wright Flyer, and Apollo 11 in the same gallery in the lobby is a huge national oneupmanship effort. But it has been reworked since I went, and a lot of the larger stuff is out at the airport at what is now a second museum.

    The Holocaust Museum is quite a sight - also for the architecture. Edit: as are a number of the other museums.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    We must get houses being built. Overhaul planning.

    And allow phone masts to be built anywhere. Rejections should be made illegal.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649

    Now that’s what I call a bollocking….

    Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has issued a fierce rebuke to Kemi Badenoch

    https://twitter.com/dailymirror/status/1656684232423399424

    Seemed a bit contrived and silly to me. I normally like him but he would be best to show a little more humility before he starts seeming like his predecessor
    In this case Badenoch was well out of order - purporting that it was only the Speaker’s “preference” that statements be made in the HoC before appearing in the Daily Telegraph - he was right to haul her up, and right to shut down what looked like it was going to be a non apology apology. “I’m sorry if you were offended…..”
    Agreed, but think he over did it a bit. Made him look a bit silly
    He clearly held too much back.

    Little Miss Smug Pants began with “I’m terribly sorry if our sequence of releasing this announcement is not to your liking…”

    I’m surprised the speaker was so reserved!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806
    I woke up this morning with an absolutely insanely good idea for a smartphone app.

    Rolled over for another 15 mins snooze and forgot it. Now I can only remember I had an idea, not what it was.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983
    Sandpit said:

    Robert Lachky, former Chief Creative Officer for Budweiser:
    “It took us 20 years to take Bud Light beer to the No 1 beer in the country and it took them one week to dismantle it,”
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/05/11/robert-lachky-bud-light-reputation-destroyed-dylan-mulvaney/

    If anyone is interested in women in advertising in the 80's 'Mad Women' on Ch 4 is quite interesting.

    https://www.channel4.com/programmes/mad-women
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    I woke up this morning with an absolutely insanely good idea for a smartphone app.

    Rolled over for another 15 mins snooze and forgot it. Now I can only remember I had an idea, not what it was.

    I invented Tile five years before it was released.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    Dialup said:

    We must get houses being built. Overhaul planning.

    And allow phone masts to be built anywhere. Rejections should be made illegal.

    *campaigns to put phone masts in Dialup's garden, stopping anyone from getting out of the kitchen door*
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,948
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    NASCAR driving experience at Kentucky Speedway (done this, got black flagged)
    Museum of the USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB. Don't drive in the wrong gate or you'll get shot.
    Of course you got black flagged. We wouldn't expect anything less. But did you come in or just ignore it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,806

    OT. Sad to see that Downing Street has bottled reforms that could makea real difference to people's lives.

    No I am not talking about dropping the EU bonfire (which I agree with) but watering down Gove's proposed reforms of leasehold.

    I thought Gove's idea was great and the excuse that Downing street are giving - that there is not enough time for majr reforms before the next election - is weak in the extreme.

    Especially when they have a majority of 70 or so.
    Yebbut - all those Tory donors who are also freeholders...
  • Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    By American standards at least Cincinnati has a cool and unusual name.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I'm disappointed you've got me down as only a "bit" unhinged :(
    I felt the very same @Sunil_Prasannan
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Carnyx said:

    Dialup said:

    We must get houses being built. Overhaul planning.

    And allow phone masts to be built anywhere. Rejections should be made illegal.

    *campaigns to put phone masts in Dialup's garden, stopping anyone from getting out of the kitchen door*
    Fine with me.

    A mast just got rejected in Wandsworth.

    The reason: causes cancer.

    Should be ignored and built. Doesn’t matter where.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    couldn't even make it onto a list

    OGH
    TSE
    Benpointer and, er...
    Farooq

    It'd be gauche for me to judge myself
    You’re a crazy mother fucker
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I'm disappointed you've got me down as only a "bit" unhinged :(
    I beat you then, I am 'completely barking' apparently
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,919
    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    Congrats on the Malvern Gazette and Ledbury Reporter gig. Next stop Hereford Times!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/may/11/devon-bolt-hole-caves-for-sale-billed-as-britains-oldest-home

    Anyone with a London detached house? Nice thermally insulated country pad available.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
    It's a weighted average though (isn't it Farooq?). If we just go on your 'Scottish Nationalism' output you'd be in 'completely barking' quite easily.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,470

    I woke up this morning with an absolutely insanely good idea for a smartphone app.

    Rolled over for another 15 mins snooze and forgot it. Now I can only remember I had an idea, not what it was.

    How about an app to remember brilliant ideas you have while half-asleep?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I'm disappointed you've got me down as only a "bit" unhinged :(
    I beat you then, I am 'completely barking' apparently
    I thought you were from a different part of Essex?
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    Possibly some good news coming out from Ukraine.

    ⚡️The owner of the PMC, Wagner Yevgeny Prigozhin, said that the situation on the flanks in the #Bakhmut area is developing for the Russians "in the worst case scenario."
    https://twitter.com/front_ukrainian/status/1656685919242534912
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I did just describe myself as a mad masochist so I can’t really complain about being where I am on the list!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    I woke up this morning with an absolutely insanely good idea for a smartphone app.

    Rolled over for another 15 mins snooze and forgot it. Now I can only remember I had an idea, not what it was.

    There'd be no "Yesterday" if this had happened with Paul.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Farooq said:

    Dialup said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    couldn't even make it onto a list

    OGH
    TSE
    Benpointer and, er...
    Farooq

    It'd be gauche for me to judge myself
    You’re a crazy mother fucker
    I think I need to hear that from someone on one of the other lists :lol:
    I’m a crazy mother fucker with top banter
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,470

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    You didn't share this piece of priceless tw@ttery.
    ..But staunch Brexiteers within the Conservative ranks have criticised the change, with former business secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg accusing Mr Sunak of "behaving like a Borgia"...

    I'm curious - is he implying adultery, incest, theft, bribery, or murder ?
    (I think we can rule out simony.)
    That is Kemi's leadership hopes over then. The ERG and Conservative right won't forgive her abandoning repeal of EU laws. If the Tories lose the next general election she will be seen as linked as much to the defeated Sunak as Hunt now
    Who on earth will the party pick then if even she's now seen as not batty enough?
    Steve Barclay
    Bravermans got it in the bag with the Tory membership . After election defeats, with parties lost their way after some time in power, Labour goes left, Tories go right.

    Bravermans already the unofficial right wing opposition leader to Truss and Sunak. She is unsackable now.

    You are absolutely right to support the saner candidate in Barclay. But any centerist moderate or continuity for Sunak and Hunts economic policy stands less than zero chance. Take Bravermans very forceful telling off of police for taking the pubs golliwogs away as widely reported across media - 98% of people believe she did do that, 2% know she actually didn’t.
    Braverman won't get through Tory MPs.

    Most likely Tory MPs will pick a final 2 of Barclay v Mordaunt or Tugendhat in my view to go to members. Assuming Rishi resigns as party leader after losing the next general election
    What's Barclay's story? Why will the MPs pick him? Isn't Tommy Tugs too européen. Although I think he might have been in the army.
    Barclay was loyal to Boris, a Leaver but also a Sunak backer in both leadership contests so likely gets most Rishi MPs behind him if Rishi resigns after election defeat.

    Tugendhat was a Remainer but also backed Truss in the final 2 so will pick up most of his backing from the leadership contest last summer plus add some Truss supporters and Hunt supporters. Mordaunt will be a contender too having been 3rd last summer with Tory MPs
    Things have moved on from last election HY! Different people will stand, stock levels have gone up and down.

    It’s what you are not saying isn’t it. You are saying Braverman won’t get into last 2. You are not saying what happens if she does…
    Conservative leadership rules are that 1/3 of the party in the Commons is enough to get through to the membership.

    So- will the batso right of the Conservatives have less than 1/3 of the MPs after the next election? Lovely to think that will be the case, but it's not obvious that it will be so.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Blanche would have Horse on his own list. They are obsessed with him
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    I'm disappointed you've got me down as only a "bit" unhinged :(
    I beat you then, I am 'completely barking' apparently
    I thought you were from a different part of Essex?
    Barking has been in Greater London since 1965 :lol:
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,424
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:


    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    It was the mixtape, wasn't it.... :smiley:

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    eek said:

    Different Turkish election poll

    https://twitter.com/SerArastirma/status/1656659252088569856

    May 14 Presidential Preferences

    Recep Tayyip Erdogan: 45.2%
    Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu: 52.1%
    Sinan Ogan : 2.7%

    Between 7 May and 10 May, face-to-face interviews were held with 2795 voters in 26 provinces. Confidence interval was calculated as 95% and margin of error was calculated as ±1.5.

    Anyone know what's likely to happen? Are the polls reliable? Will Erdoğan go quietly if he loses?
    The answer to the second part is no. He is already lining up arguments about the validity of the poll if he loses. He has definitely been taking lessons from Trump and in Turkey's case it is not clear that the institutions (army, police etc) will not back him.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,894
    edited May 2023
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    For solid (or dull) read: "Reliable, opinions always thoughtful and to be weighed with care, can spell 'Algarkirk' and lots of other hard words."

    BTW, DavidL, Cicero, Stuartinromford Stodge and Gallowgate always excellent reading though never (unlike me) dull.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015
    Dialup said:

    Blanche would have Horse on his own list. They are obsessed with him

    Jesus Chbrist! You’re the one who exactly copies his posting style
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,040
    Calvin Trillin has visited Cincinnati -- and had some interesting things to say about it.

    (I disagree with him on politics. but he is an entertaining travel writer. He admits writing for The Nation, which has never quite recovered from its Stalinist phase, but he loves good food, made by unpretentious people.)
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    I think I’m totally normal. I post fantastic opinions and I have great banter. Everyone else is an idiot
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,983

    Now that’s what I call a bollocking….

    Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has issued a fierce rebuke to Kemi Badenoch

    https://twitter.com/dailymirror/status/1656684232423399424

    Excellent. He is dead right as well. Both parties are increasigly guilty when in Government of making major policy announcements outside of Parliament when they wshould be briefing MPs first.
    Well directed. What a louche arrogant unpleasant Tory. Definite leadership material
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    Blanche would have Horse on his own list. They are obsessed with him

    Jesus Chbrist! You’re the one who exactly copies his posting style
    No I can spell
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,690

    Now that’s what I call a bollocking….

    Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle has issued a fierce rebuke to Kemi Badenoch

    https://twitter.com/dailymirror/status/1656684232423399424

    Excellent. He is dead right as well. Both parties are increasingly guilty when in Government of making major policy announcements outside of Parliament when they should be briefing MPs first.
    Point of order, do they opposition need to make policy announcements to the HoC? Do they even have the opportunity to do so?
    I was referring to when they were last in power. This has been an increasingly annoying issue ever since the start of this century. I don't immediately remember Major or those before him being rebuked for this so regularly.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
    It's a weighted average though (isn't it Farooq?). If we just go on your 'Scottish Nationalism' output you'd be in 'completely barking' quite easily.
    That is just having clear vision @kinabalu. I am happy being a loan voice in my warnings about the risks of parochial nationalism. I used to get shot down for my views on Russian interference in our democracy. If you think it is "completely barking" then I will accept the accolade. I don't expect you to share a view that is anything other than the conventional.

    You did not get a mention in the top category? Did @Farooq have a special circle of hell for people trained in Chartered Accountancy?
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    Blanche has created an issue with me. I happen to quite like their posts - you can’t win them all
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,714
    edited May 2023
    kinabalu said:

    I woke up this morning with an absolutely insanely good idea for a smartphone app.

    Rolled over for another 15 mins snooze and forgot it. Now I can only remember I had an idea, not what it was.

    There'd be no "Yesterday" if this had happened with Paul.
    I once woke up having dreamt what I thought was a brilliant hitherto undiscovered melody for the chorus of a rock song. I'd been humming it to myself for about an hour (and devising the lyrics) before realizing it was more or less the saxophone part in Baker Street.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,782
    kjh said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    NASCAR driving experience at Kentucky Speedway (done this, got black flagged)
    Museum of the USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB. Don't drive in the wrong gate or you'll get shot.
    Of course you got black flagged. We wouldn't expect anything less. But did you come in or just ignore it?
    Came in, anticipating a Cale Yarborough vs Donnie Allison style pit lane punch up that never happened. NASCAR cars are insanely hard to drive really fast. I've also driven a late 90s F1 car and I'd rate the NASCAR beast harder to drive at ten tenths.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649
    Dialup said:

    I think I’m totally normal. I post fantastic opinions and I have great banter. Everyone else is an idiot

    You still sound a lot more like Leon impersonating his old friend Horse. Can you explain this?
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    I think I’m totally normal. I post fantastic opinions and I have great banter. Everyone else is an idiot

    You still sound a lot more like Leon impersonating his old friend Horse. Can you explain this?
    Ask @BlancheLivermore
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    eek said:

    Different Turkish election poll

    https://twitter.com/SerArastirma/status/1656659252088569856

    May 14 Presidential Preferences

    Recep Tayyip Erdogan: 45.2%
    Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu: 52.1%
    Sinan Ogan : 2.7%

    Between 7 May and 10 May, face-to-face interviews were held with 2795 voters in 26 provinces. Confidence interval was calculated as 95% and margin of error was calculated as ±1.5.

    Anyone know what's likely to happen? Are the polls reliable? Will Erdoğan go quietly if he loses?
    The answer to the second part is no. He is already lining up arguments about the validity of the poll if he loses. He has definitely been taking lessons from Trump and in Turkey's case it is not clear that the institutions (army, police etc) will not back him.
    I posted earlier that the opposition really want this won this weekend as the 2 elections (Presidential and Parliamentary) running hand in hand make it harder to fake results - if the 6 opposition parties win 5x% of the vote, Erdogan can't really claim to have won 50% himself .

    That isn't true if a run off is required as the Parliamentary electoral system is 1 round D'Hondt based election.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352

    Dialup said:

    Blanche would have Horse on his own list. They are obsessed with him

    Jesus Chbrist! You’re the one who exactly copies his posting style
    I miss Horse even though he was of different political views to me. He needs to make a reappearance. His banning must be over by now shirley?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015
    Dialup said:

    Blanche has created an issue with me. I happen to quite like their posts - you can’t win them all

    I’ve just been having fun pulling one of your four legs with my horse puns
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    couldn't even make it onto a list

    OGH
    TSE
    Benpointer and, er...
    Farooq

    "Benpointer? Who are they?"

    (just kiddin')
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    Blanche has created an issue with me. I happen to quite like their posts - you can’t win them all

    I’ve just been having fun pulling one of your four legs with my horse puns
    I think deep down you love me and are glad I am here. Love you too hun
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dialup said:

    Blanche would have Horse on his own list. They are obsessed with him

    Jesus Chbrist! You’re the one who exactly copies his posting style
    I miss Horse even though he was of different political views to me. He needs to make a reappearance. His banning must be over by now shirley?
    Maybe he’s already here? Who knows
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    You didn't share this piece of priceless tw@ttery.
    ..But staunch Brexiteers within the Conservative ranks have criticised the change, with former business secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg accusing Mr Sunak of "behaving like a Borgia"...

    I'm curious - is he implying adultery, incest, theft, bribery, or murder ?
    (I think we can rule out simony.)
    That is Kemi's leadership hopes over then. The ERG and Conservative right won't forgive her abandoning repeal of EU laws. If the Tories lose the next general election she will be seen as linked as much to the defeated Sunak as Hunt now
    Who on earth will the party pick then if even she's now seen as not batty enough?
    Steve Barclay
    Bravermans got it in the bag with the Tory membership . After election defeats, with parties lost their way after some time in power, Labour goes left, Tories go right.

    Bravermans already the unofficial right wing opposition leader to Truss and Sunak. She is unsackable now.

    You are absolutely right to support the saner candidate in Barclay. But any centerist moderate or continuity for Sunak and Hunts economic policy stands less than zero chance. Take Bravermans very forceful telling off of police for taking the pubs golliwogs away as widely reported across media - 98% of people believe she did do that, 2% know she actually didn’t.
    Braverman won't get through Tory MPs.

    Most likely Tory MPs will pick a final 2 of Barclay v Mordaunt or Tugendhat in my view to go to members. Assuming Rishi resigns as party leader after losing the next general election
    What's Barclay's story? Why will the MPs pick him? Isn't Tommy Tugs too européen. Although I think he might have been in the army.
    Barclay was loyal to Boris, a Leaver but also a Sunak backer in both leadership contests so likely gets most Rishi MPs behind him if Rishi resigns after election defeat.

    Tugendhat was a Remainer but also backed Truss in the final 2 so will pick up most of his backing from the leadership contest last summer plus add some Truss supporters and Hunt supporters. Mordaunt will be a contender too having been 3rd last summer with Tory MPs
    Things have moved on from last election HY! Different people will stand, stock levels have gone up and down.

    It’s what you are not saying isn’t it. You are saying Braverman won’t get into last 2. You are not saying what happens if she does…
    Conservative leadership rules are that 1/3 of the party in the Commons is enough to get through to the membership.

    So- will the batso right of the Conservatives have less than 1/3 of the MPs after the next election? Lovely to think that will be the case, but it's not obvious that it will be so.
    Good point. Are the sane ones more under threat from losing seat than the barking ones. Another reason why HY is wrong to base the next first phase on what happened in the last one.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
    It's a weighted average though (isn't it Farooq?). If we just go on your 'Scottish Nationalism' output you'd be in 'completely barking' quite easily.
    That is just having clear vision @kinabalu. I am happy being a loan voice in my warnings about the risks of parochial nationalism. I used to get shot down for my views on Russian interference in our democracy. If you think it is "completely barking" then I will accept the accolade. I don't expect you to share a view that is anything other than the conventional.

    You did not get a mention in the top category? Did @Farooq have a special circle of hell for people trained in Chartered Accountancy?
    You want credit for being a "loan voice"?
    To lead rather than to follow. Or be out in the wilderness.

    Without wishing to be immodest I think it is fair to say that not many people believe the "Russia Report" now do they? I think I was also a loan voice amongst those on the centre right who thought Boris Johnson was a complete disaster.

    Being a loan voice doesn't necessarily mean I am wrong. But then again it doesn't necessarily mean I am right either!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,782
    Farooq said:


    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup

    I am a bit salty at getting lumped in with that shower of shit. HYUFD excepted.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,409
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
    It's a weighted average though (isn't it Farooq?). If we just go on your 'Scottish Nationalism' output you'd be in 'completely barking' quite easily.
    That is just having clear vision @kinabalu. I am happy being a loan voice in my warnings about the risks of parochial nationalism. I used to get shot down for my views on Russian interference in our democracy. If you think it is "completely barking" then I will accept the accolade. I don't expect you to share a view that is anything other than the conventional.

    You did not get a mention in the top category? Did @Farooq have a special circle of hell for people trained in Chartered Accountancy?
    You want credit for being a "loan voice"?
    Rentagob?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Andy_JS said:

    Another bad poll for the Tories.

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46% (+2)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Savanta_UK, 05 - 07 May"

    The long heralded Tory recovery continues. How could we have ever doubted it?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015
    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:


    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup

    I am a bit salty at getting lumped in with that shower of shit. HYUFD excepted.

    Don’t be too salty; Dialup might start licking you
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    30 point lead. By end of July.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:


    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup

    I am a bit salty at getting lumped in with that shower of shit. HYUFD excepted.

    Don’t be too salty; Dialup might start licking you
    Yes I will sexy beast
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of shite American things, the Gazette has just commissioned me to do a travel article on..... wait for it.... Cincinnati. Yes, the Newent of USA, the Wick of the Midwest, the Walsall of Jesus Christ Why There?


    Can anyone cheer me up? Is there any remotely positive thing about Cincinnati that I can look forward to?

    THIRD on its list of major attractions is "The American Sign Museum"

    HELP

    NASCAR driving experience at Kentucky Speedway (done this, got black flagged)
    Museum of the USAF at Wright-Patterson AFB. Don't drive in the wrong gate or you'll get shot.
    So are we going to explain which is the right gate, and which is the wrong gate. Or just leave it there 😈
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    kinabalu said:

    I woke up this morning with an absolutely insanely good idea for a smartphone app.

    Rolled over for another 15 mins snooze and forgot it. Now I can only remember I had an idea, not what it was.

    There'd be no "Yesterday" if this had happened with Paul.
    I once woke up having dreamt what I thought was a brilliant hitherto undiscovered melody for the chorus of a rock song. I'd been humming it to myself for about an hour (and devising the lyrics) before realizing it was more or less the saxophone part in Baker Street.
    Bob Holness's best piece of work..
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779
    Just wanted to check whether there was a market on when the Kerch Bridge would cease to be.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,352
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
    It's a weighted average though (isn't it Farooq?). If we just go on your 'Scottish Nationalism' output you'd be in 'completely barking' quite easily.
    That is just having clear vision @kinabalu. I am happy being a loan voice in my warnings about the risks of parochial nationalism. I used to get shot down for my views on Russian interference in our democracy. If you think it is "completely barking" then I will accept the accolade. I don't expect you to share a view that is anything other than the conventional.

    You did not get a mention in the top category? Did @Farooq have a special circle of hell for people trained in Chartered Accountancy?
    You want credit for being a "loan voice"?
    Rentagob?
    Seems a little harsh @Carnyx. You are normally very polite for a nationalist apologist. I guess there are a lot of things for you to be cross about. What is your view of the state of Scottish Nationalism at the moment? A choice between a bunch of crooks or the quasi-fascist Alba? The parties of Anglophobia have never been so unclothed, and boy, do they look ugly eh?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,965
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    Thanks for putting me in the possibly sane category. Maybe it's my support for proportional representation that did it. 😊
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Delighted to be in the same category as @Farooq
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bad poll for the Tories.

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46% (+2)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Savanta_UK, 05 - 07 May"

    The long heralded Tory recovery continues. How could we have ever doubted it?
    If this persists for just a little bit longer I'm going to get complacent - which I'll enjoy very much.
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561

    Delighted to be in the same category as @Farooq

    It’s a real honour to be in the same category as you babes!
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,014
    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:


    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup

    I am a bit salty at getting lumped in with that shower of shit. HYUFD excepted.

    He forgot two categories

    Troll
    Russian troll
  • DialupDialup Posts: 561
    ROFL Casino is mad they are in same category as the great Dialup
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903
    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    Thanks for putting me in the possibly sane category. Maybe it's my support for proportional representation that did it. 😊
    I feel that 'possibly sane' is the sweet spot. I'm boring apparently - obviously need to upgrade the saltiness of my posts.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,779

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bad poll for the Tories.

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46% (+2)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Savanta_UK, 05 - 07 May"

    The long heralded Tory recovery continues. How could we have ever doubted it?
    Just think what the Tories could do with a really charismatic leader like Penny Mordaunt. Backbenchers must be pondering that now. Is there any way that Rishi Sunak could be induced to fall on her sword - so to speak?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bad poll for the Tories.

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46% (+2)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Savanta_UK, 05 - 07 May"

    The long heralded Tory recovery continues. How could we have ever doubted it?
    30 isn’t exactly bad. But this poll does have the Coronation Bounce built into it for the Tory’s.

    Sunak waving a flag like a performing seal all evening has arrested the slide.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,015

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    @leon clearly off the scale. Disappointed to have only made the "bit unhinged" category
    It's a weighted average though (isn't it Farooq?). If we just go on your 'Scottish Nationalism' output you'd be in 'completely barking' quite easily.
    That is just having clear vision @kinabalu. I am happy being a loan voice in my warnings about the risks of parochial nationalism. I used to get shot down for my views on Russian interference in our democracy. If you think it is "completely barking" then I will accept the accolade. I don't expect you to share a view that is anything other than the conventional.

    You did not get a mention in the top category? Did @Farooq have a special circle of hell for people trained in Chartered Accountancy?
    You want credit for being a "loan voice"?
    Rentagob?
    Seems a little harsh @Carnyx. You are normally very polite for a nationalist apologist. I guess there are a lot of things for you to be cross about. What is your view of the state of Scottish Nationalism at the moment? A choice between a bunch of crooks or the quasi-fascist Alba? The parties of Anglophobia have never been so unclothed, and boy, do they look ugly eh?
    Do you need the Loan Ranger to offer you flexible terms on your mortgage?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Depressing write up on BBC about Trump's town hall event. Basically that he will never stop saying 2020 was rigged, will pardon 6 Jan rioters, will definitely shift policy on Ukraine (though exactly how is unclear, but ending it in 24 hours as he suggests could only occur if he stopped ongoing support), and that the audience was eating out of the palm of his hand.

    If they get the chance the party will pick him again and the representatives will fall in line.

    Yes, not a good read. It's hard to see him winning the presidency back, with things as they are now, but it'd be better if he isn't on the ballot as the GOP candidate. If he gets the Nom he has to have a non-trivial chance just because of 'events', eg a Biden incident, a bank crash, something in Russia/Ukraine etc.
    The nomination is his to lose. Could he become president then? Of course, especially if the economic backdrop worsens, as seems likely.
    Very scary on so many levels. Good for all the worst people (eg the MAGA goons and Putin) and bad for everyone else. If it were to happen my Big Short would turn into the worst single betting loss I've ever had and I can honestly hand-on-heart say I don't even think about that aspect. That's how bleak a prospect it is.
    I'd give Trump about a 40% chance of winning, if he runs against Biden. That is far too close for comfort.
    Share the sentiment but I rate it more a 25%.
    On this subject, there is an interesting feature about PB. SFAICS there are several people/positions that have Zero support with PBers. These include: Trump, Xi, Putin, Assad, all sides in Sudan, North Korea, the Burmese government and so on.

    Of these one leaps out as different. Trump has tens of millions of loyal supporters in a free market liberal democracy with a free press.

    But not a word of support on PB (me included) ever, while Trump is 5/2 with Hills to be the next POTUS.

    is this because:
    (a) the PB Overton window is actually quite small
    (b) because nearly half the USA really are as authoritarian fascistlike as Putin and co and Trump's position resembles 1930s Germany
    (c) something else. (What?)
    An American PB equivalent might show more Trump support, I guess. There are things about the country we struggle to understand. Although tbh I think you're being a touch generous (to us) by saying 'not a word of support' for him on here ever. I recall a fair amount in the past, and ok there's very little now but still some. Plus there will be PBers who secretly have a soft spot and keep shtum to avoid a tongue lashing.
    I have a soft spot for someone who is democratically elected by any given electorate so put me in the democracy not as bad as all the other systems column.
    Yep. An elected President Trump is better than an unelected President Trump. However there's a risk the first leads to the second so it's best to play safe and have neither imo.
    I really don't see that. Not that as we have seen we have been at the end of any kind of history but you are saying that the US is possibly headed towards autarchy I just don't believe.

    Of course loathe the man but don't let that colour your usually razor-sharp assessment of the state of politics today.
    Well he had to be dragged out last time, tried to rig the election, pulling rank to intimidate officials into conjuring up votes for him, tried to get his VP to quash the certification and allow States to override with slates for him to swing it and keep him in power. This is all on the record. It happened. It didn't work but he tried alright.

    So, ok, a repeat and this time successful might be far from a given - but it's a definite possibility given another 4 years in control of the GOP and the Federal government, his foaming gullible base, the levers he could pull, stack the courts, stack the legislatures, placemen all over, the manipulations etc. Object: Trump/MAGA forever.

    If you don't see at least a risk worth worrying about I'll have to put it down to you not following American politics that closely. Which I know you don't and it's fair enough. It's not everyone's cup of tea.
    Trump/MAGA forever. He couldn't even get himself together to overturn the last election I think forever is a stretch.

    But as you are such a close follower of US politics I will take heed and upgrade the probability of Trump/MAGA forever from 0.000001% to 0.000002%.

    Thank you for your insight. I will bet accordingly.
    No need to be quite so literal. 'Trump/MAGA forever' means achieving corruption on a scale that makes him/them very hard to dislodge by the conventional means of a free & fair election.

    The risk of this is far higher than you have it there. You need to move the decimal point quite a way to the right. Course if he had managed it last time we wouldn't need to assess the risk, would we? It'd be 100%.
    "...if he had managed..."

    But he didn't and my point is I believe the system in the US is robust enough to see off any attempt to overthrow the government by force.

    We have already discussed Jan 6th and agreed, those sane posters on PB have agreed, that is, that it was far from a coup attempt. If that's what you mean. Don't put yourself on the side of the insane posters by saying that Jan 6th was a coup.
    Is there a list of which posters are sane or insane?
    Here's Topping's 'sane' list:

    1. Topping









    A lot of uncertainty here

    solid (or dull!)
    Big_G_NorthWales
    Sean_F
    eek
    algakirk
    OldKingCole
    williamglenn
    Nigelb
    OnlyLivingBoy

    possibly sane
    TOPPING
    kinabalu
    Andy_JS
    kle
    JosiasJessop
    Foxy
    Richard_Tyndall
    rcs1000

    definitely a bit unhinged
    Nigel_Foremain
    Sunil_Prasannan
    BlancheLivermore
    viewcode
    bigjohnowls

    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup
    Thanks for putting me in the possibly sane category. Maybe it's my support for proportional representation that did it. 😊
    I feel that 'possibly sane' is the sweet spot. I'm boring apparently - obviously need to upgrade the saltiness of my posts.
    Don't go changing ... trying to please us
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,470

    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    You didn't share this piece of priceless tw@ttery.
    ..But staunch Brexiteers within the Conservative ranks have criticised the change, with former business secretary Jacob Rees-Mogg accusing Mr Sunak of "behaving like a Borgia"...

    I'm curious - is he implying adultery, incest, theft, bribery, or murder ?
    (I think we can rule out simony.)
    That is Kemi's leadership hopes over then. The ERG and Conservative right won't forgive her abandoning repeal of EU laws. If the Tories lose the next general election she will be seen as linked as much to the defeated Sunak as Hunt now
    Who on earth will the party pick then if even she's now seen as not batty enough?
    Steve Barclay
    Bravermans got it in the bag with the Tory membership . After election defeats, with parties lost their way after some time in power, Labour goes left, Tories go right.

    Bravermans already the unofficial right wing opposition leader to Truss and Sunak. She is unsackable now.

    You are absolutely right to support the saner candidate in Barclay. But any centerist moderate or continuity for Sunak and Hunts economic policy stands less than zero chance. Take Bravermans very forceful telling off of police for taking the pubs golliwogs away as widely reported across media - 98% of people believe she did do that, 2% know she actually didn’t.
    Braverman won't get through Tory MPs.

    Most likely Tory MPs will pick a final 2 of Barclay v Mordaunt or Tugendhat in my view to go to members. Assuming Rishi resigns as party leader after losing the next general election
    What's Barclay's story? Why will the MPs pick him? Isn't Tommy Tugs too européen. Although I think he might have been in the army.
    Barclay was loyal to Boris, a Leaver but also a Sunak backer in both leadership contests so likely gets most Rishi MPs behind him if Rishi resigns after election defeat.

    Tugendhat was a Remainer but also backed Truss in the final 2 so will pick up most of his backing from the leadership contest last summer plus add some Truss supporters and Hunt supporters. Mordaunt will be a contender too having been 3rd last summer with Tory MPs
    Things have moved on from last election HY! Different people will stand, stock levels have gone up and down.

    It’s what you are not saying isn’t it. You are saying Braverman won’t get into last 2. You are not saying what happens if she does…
    Conservative leadership rules are that 1/3 of the party in the Commons is enough to get through to the membership.

    So- will the batso right of the Conservatives have less than 1/3 of the MPs after the next election? Lovely to think that will be the case, but it's not obvious that it will be so.
    Good point. Are the sane ones more under threat from losing seat than the barking ones. Another reason why HY is wrong to base the next first phase on what happened in the last one.
    That's a question with two parts. What happens in the reselection battles, and what happens at the General Election?

    Centrists (the sort who might support Tugendhat) might struggle with the first, whereas the harder right (more Redwall-y?) may fail to hold their seats.

    It's easy to see one of the final two being a pragmatic mainstream right-winger, like Barclay. As things stand, the harder right feel like favourites for the second spot, with the wets missing out.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,156
    Andy_JS said:

    Another bad poll for the Tories.

    "Britain Elects
    @BritainElects
    Westminster voting intention:

    LAB: 46% (+2)
    CON: 30% (-1)
    LDEM: 9% (-)
    REF: 5% (-)
    GRN: 3% (-)

    via @Savanta_UK, 05 - 07 May"

    Broken, sleazy, monarchist Tories on the slide!

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,649
    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:


    completely barking
    MoonRabbit
    Dura_Ace
    CarlottaVance
    Casino_Royale
    HYUFD
    Dialup

    I am a bit salty at getting lumped in with that shower of shit. HYUFD excepted.

    Quite ironically, I was delighted to sit under the same heading as you.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,976
    Mega customer meeting this morning with vast prospects for fame and fortune. Spent the afternoon holed in an airport hotel bar writing things up and getting various processes (10 impossible things to do before Breakfast) underway.

    Sadly the airport is Luton, and my flight home is delayed by 80 minutes. Airports need to offer more pre-flight entertainment. Brothel perhaps? Gay sauna? Casino? Basically various ways to float your boat whilst you wait in the purgatory that is airport.
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