Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
The government should have said: 'Look, while the comparison with Hitler is unfortunate, Mr Lineker is fully entitled to express his opinion on what is a complicated and emotional issue. We believe our approach is best placed to address this issue.' For the British Right to turn this into a witch hunt against Lineker and the BBC makes them look as if they've nowhere left to go.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
Why? Haven't the BBC done precisely what was demanded of them?
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
The Right is in power. It's just that this is what your fantasies end up looking like in reality. Not the artificial classical beauty of a Riefenstahl movie, but a bunch of oblivious idiots.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
It wasn’t a joke? You think MOTD is “probably the most popular and best known TV show in Europe”?
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker offers as many alternatives as the Labour Party: precisely none.
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
I don't understand why Lineker has to have a solution to any particular problem, same as I don't have a solution to anything of national importance. He expresses a sincerely held opinion on what he thinks the government are doing. Admittedly, he does hate the government but that can be said for around 70% of the population if you believe current polling. It's the government's job to come up with solutions....which it clearly hasn't!
It has come up with a solution - a solution which Lineker doesn't like.
He just sounds like a lefty blowhard when he offers no alternative. As with the Labour Party. They are the Andy Pipkin of modern political discourse: "I don't like it."
Well, what the fuck DO you like? Give us a clue...
If Tories froth at the mouth to this extent, just as a result of a PR cock-up of their own side's creation, what are they going to do when they lose an election? Nuclear retaliation?
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
Given his contract ensures he gets a substantial amounts of the weeks off, it wouldn't be hard to check to see if there is a difference in viewership between when he is hosting and when he isn't.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the case at hand.
Which revolves around whether or not a media organisation should be able to get rid of employees or contractors simply because they don't like them publicly expressing their private views.
I would have thought there are at least one or two posters on here who might be concerned about that.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
It's nothing to do with the anchor and I doubt it's to do with the pundits - if you want decent analysis there are plenty of places to get it and MOTD is not one of them.
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
I see a solution here. Tory party should set up a committee. If any BBC employee wants to express an opinion then they should submit that opinion to it. If the committee deems it insufficiently sensible and helpful then it shall never see the light of day.
Why should the Tory Party have to implement BBC policies?
This situation is not of the Government's making. It is because BBC management are shite. Simple as that.
They have been shite for decades. They COULD have been the ultimate media brand, worldwide. Instead, they sat on their hands, comfortable in the knowledge that everyone in the UK with a telly would pay them their poll tax, whether they watched their output or not. Fat, stupid and lazy, the ever-diminshing BBC is the whirlwind they are reaping.
They are the Woolworths of the media.
I'm not one to defend the BBC management - but as an organisation they were hobbled at various points by various governments. One of the biggest being that their digital streaming was crippled due to them being in an 'unfair' position (ie, having lots of great content) compared to, coincidentally, channels owned by Murdoch.
None of that is helped by the management also being rubbish of course.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the case at hand.
Which revolves around whether or not a media organisation should be able to get rid of employees or contractors simply because they don't like them publicly expressing their private views.
I would have thought there are at least one or two posters on here who might be concerned about that.
Only if they work for the “state broadcaster” which is funded by a poll tax
Can't believe that people are still talking about Lineker. It's just not that interesting. BBC management incompetent: who knew? BBC employs and grossly overpays prima donnas? Colour me astonished. Said overpaid prima donna proves Cameron's lasting contribution to public life yet again: quelle surprise.
How on earth is this news?
I don't think there is anything wrong with the tweet. If he didn't work for the BBC it wouldn't be an issue.
There's a sensitivity about likening anything in the here & now to anything to do with Hitler and the Nazis. I think this is generally a good thing. That was a 'special' most heinous evil and it shouldn't be cheapened by false/facile/hyperbolic comparisons or strained contextualizing. It deserves a sort of reverence.
OTOH, "Lessons From History", this phrase, it presumably means doing everything possible to ensure such an unspeakable horror never happens again. Part of this is surely to be alert to echoes of how it got traction in its early days back then. If you can't mention any similarities until they've become VERY similar the chances are it might be a bit late.
I don't agree. If people are using rhetoric that was being used in 1930s Germany people are well within their rights to speak about the dangers of it. Bravermann was actually challenged on the language she was using regards migrants at a public event recently - by a holocaust survivor who made that exact comparison.
Well you do agree - with my 2nd para. It's then a matter of opinion as to where Lineker was on the spectrum of total hyperbole to bang on. For me, it was about in the middle, thus nothing to get overly worked up about, and certainly nothing like as gross as Braverman's output.
In an hour's time I'll be heading to the pub to watch the rugby.
The rugby, not the presenters.
In fact I couldn't even say who does the rugby presenting - Gabby Logan perhaps ? I vaguely remember John Inverdale doing it.
Which illustrates the relative level of importance between sports presenters and the sport itself.
Well, you do when it really bad. ITV coverage of international football is f##king awful, its unwatchable. Roy Keane and Graeme Souness were arguing about rules in the world cup they didn't understand.
Their rugby coverage on the other hand is fine. Not great, but fine.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
I agree with all this, except the last clause which I've got not information about. Lineker is not the reason why MOTD has been successful for decades. But he may well be the reason why it has not had the same fate as other titans of BBC programming that got washed away by diverse competition in the contemporary era, like TOTP, Grandstand and so on. Instead it attracts very large audiences almost all year round, and mostly during an otherwise quiet time for TV ratings, to boot. Even if he's not, his share of the big pie will be big.
The Left is busily heaping up the funeral pyre of the BBC - and they don’t even realise
It's not the funeral pyre of the BBC. It's the funeral pyre of its Chair and DG.
I can't wait for the Labour government to sort this out
I will presume that will be back to a Labour donors in those senior roles like before?
The reality is Lineker issue aside, the BBC has a big long term problem. The telly tax isn't enforceable or justifiable in the age of streaming and 9 million channels, and the industry is quickly being globalised by the likes of Netflix and Disney who are willing to pay massive amounts for content (Luther another popular BBC show, only ever 20 episodes made, now Netflix making movies out of the franchise). The question is how do they move forward, so far it has basically been stick head in sand, object to any change to the status quo.
Labour's answer will be protectionism:
- Special tax on streamers - Public money (ie on top of LF) given to BBC - Public money also given to other PSBs - ie ITV, C4, C5
Also Licence Fee probably replaced by tax where every household pays.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
Given his contract ensures he gets a substantial amounts of the weeks off, it wouldn't be hard to check to see if there is a difference in viewership between when he is hosting and when he isn't.
You'd have to allow for the quality of 3pm matches, though. If he gets to choose which weeks he gets off - and I bet he does - he's going to work when at least one of the Big Six are playing at 3pm Saturday and be off when the biggest game is Brentford v Crystal Palace.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
Given his contract ensures he gets a substantial amounts of the weeks off, it wouldn't be hard to check to see if there is a difference in viewership between when he is hosting and when he isn't.
Well it matters not a jot to the BBC domesticaly. I can't imagine MOTD is sold at any great profit overseas either.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the case at hand.
Which revolves around whether or not a media organisation should be able to get rid of employees or contractors simply because they don't like them publicly expressing their private views.
I would have thought there are at least one or two posters on here who might be concerned about that.
Unfortunately, not everyone is as principled as you.
For some, it is just a game of power.
And part of what we're seeing is undignified flailing as power drains from a specific group with a specific worldview.
What's happened here is a symptom of where this government is in its life cycle. It still has the levers of power in its hands, but everyone expects them to loosen soon.
A couple of years ago, a quietly menacing phone call would have been the end of the matter. Big Ears dumped in a concrete overcoat at the bottom of the Thames.
But now, the government's placemen at the Beeb can make the noises but the can't carry them out in the same way. Because the government is unpopular and probably on the way out. What makes it worse is that the response is to go louder in the rhetoric to compensate for the ebbing of real power. We've got a long two years ahead of us.
(Oh, and a number of PBers are clearly unhappy at paying towards Lineker's pay via the License Fee. If it would help, I'd be happy to put 4p in a brown envelope for them. Because I'm just a bleeding heart liberal and am saddened by their distress.)
The irony about Lineker's pay is that some of those defending it are also furious about the BBC's orchestra cuts.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
I doubt its reach is due to Lineker. More about the long tradition, the timing and the intro music. Lineker mainly brings a female friendly face, although his reputation is diabolical amongst my female friends that have met him.
Given his contract ensures he gets a substantial amounts of the weeks off, it wouldn't be hard to check to see if there is a difference in viewership between when he is hosting and when he isn't.
Well it matters not a jot to the BBC domesticaly. I can't imagine MOTD is sold at any great profit overseas either.
I don't think its sold anywhere is it? Their rights package for the football is very limited e.g. as I mentioned down thread, Sky get to show highlights for free on YouTube ahead of MOTD and on social media.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
I do not support the sacking of Lineker for this. But the people concerned are implicitly supporting his statements, and therefore proving that the BBC has an institutional left wing bias. If there aren't any presenters left who don't think policies to reduce migrant inflows are reminiscent of the 3rd Reich, it is not a particularly good sign.
Or, if you’re prepared to remove the blinkers for a moment, they’re calling attention to hypocrisy and political interference. They might disagree vehemently with what Lineker wrote but support his right to write it.
That maybe true but the tories now have ammunition for an all out attack on the bbc.
Agreed, I doubt it was intentional but for the section of the Tory party desperate to destroy the BBC to keep their donors happy, this has fallen into their lap. It’s the only part of this that makes me sad.
What people are missing is that the BBC had previously told Lineker not to make controversial political statements on social media. He ignored that instruction (which is there for good reasons).
It’s a management / discipline thing, not about politics.
And he told them to sod off. As it isn't applied consistently in any way. Nor does it appear to be defined. Which is why he's off air till an agreement on what it is, is reached. See Andrew Neil, Sugar, Clarkson, Karen Brady, etc., etc. And his colleagues agreed. So. If it is about management, then it's spectacularly incompetent management.
AIUI he was personally warned about his posting habits.
Management had no choice but to react (otherwise their rules are worthless). Lineker could have deescalated but chose not to.
The only mutual climb down that I can think of at this point is a final warning and a clear ban from future posting
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the case at hand.
Which revolves around whether or not a media organisation should be able to get rid of employees or contractors simply because they don't like them publicly expressing their private views.
I would have thought there are at least one or two posters on here who might be concerned about that.
Only if they work for the “state broadcaster” which is funded by a poll tax
And I work for the "state educator" which actually is paid for compulsorily by everyone.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
Why? Haven't the BBC done precisely what was demanded of them?
I think Leon's point is that the behaviour of the other BBC employees has been institutionally disrespectful to the government. Abolishing the whole thing is the only cure.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker offers as many alternatives as the Labour Party: precisely none.
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
I don't understand why Lineker has to have a solution to any particular problem, same as I don't have a solution to anything of national importance. He expresses a sincerely held opinion on what he thinks the government are doing. Admittedly, he does hate the government but that can be said for around 70% of the population if you believe current polling. It's the government's job to come up with solutions....which it clearly hasn't!
It has come up with a solution - a solution which Lineker doesn't like.
He just sounds like a lefty blowhard when he offers no alternative. As with the Labour Party. They are the Andy Pipkin of modern political discourse: "I don't like it."
Well, what the fuck DO you like? Give us a clue...
In a very real sense this doesn't matter. Short of withdrawal from both the ECHR and the UN Refugee Convention - something which the sitting Government wouldn't dare to do, and the Opposition wouldn't want to do either - nothing truly effective can be done about the small boats. Throwing money at the French might help at the margins, but they can't patrol every inch of their coast from Dunkirk to Cherbourg, they can't stop the migrants from getting hold of dinghies, and their incentive to frustrate Britain's unwanted asylum seekers, to the point that these persons apply for asylum in France instead, is limited to put it mildly.
Nearly everyone who manages to get as far as boarding a boat to England - unless they are very unlucky and end up drowning in a terrible accident - will get to stay forever. The various people getting into the boats, whether they are actual refugees or not (and most of them aren't,) know this to be true, and so do all the politicians. Any rival non-plans that Labour and the Tories come out with to deal with the boats exist to hoodwink gullible voters and score points off each other, and that's it.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is absolutely right - the BBC need to end it even more, but it's also true for the Tories.
The usual characters are on here, of course, squealing with priapic delight at the idea of waging culture war on Lineker, who they insist is a widely loathed figure.
But the whole thing is political insanity, appealing only to a tiny subset of weirdos who vote Tory anyway, and looking absolutely nuts to everyone else.
What Sunak, entirely understandably, had in the communications grid for this week was a message that his Government is getting a grip on the immigration issue. What it has turned into is a story about attempts to silence a sports broadcaster who is widely liked, and in the process buggering up a lot of people's Saturday night telly. At the very least it obscures the message Sunak was trying to convey, putting him on a very unattractive side of a fight he didn't plan on having.
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
Grant Shapps and Suella Braverman.
Two people, one of whom was absurdly compared to Hitler? Hardly a sign of continual whingeing such that they aren't doing their jobs.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
Absolutely none of which has anything to do with the case at hand.
Which revolves around whether or not a media organisation should be able to get rid of employees or contractors simply because they don't like them publicly expressing their private views.
I would have thought there are at least one or two posters on here who might be concerned about that.
Only if they work for the “state broadcaster” which is funded by a poll tax
And I work for the "state educator" which actually is paid for compulsorily by everyone.
The BBC may have to broadcast Match of the Day without commentary tonight because it does not have rights to audio supplied by Premier League Productions.
When the Match of the Day commentators declared they would not be working on the show in solidarity with Gary Lineker, they said that commentary from the Premier League’s world feed would still be available to viewers. However, The Sunday Times understands that the BBC’s highlights contract with the Premier League is limited to video, meaning it must supply its own commentary.
It is unclear whether the BBC made a direct request to the Premier League for their commentary but an insider said there was not enough time to work through any contractual issues before the show at 10.20pm tonight. The BBC said it was sorry for “limited sport programming this weekend” and that it was “working hard to resolve the situation and hopes to do so soon”. Match of the Day may have to go ahead for contractual reasons.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
Why? Haven't the BBC done precisely what was demanded of them?
For millions of people (it doesn't have to be more than few million to count when it comes to swing votes) the BBC is, despite its annoying stuff, one of the outstanding bits of UK life.
I doubt if I am the only PB reader for whom life without Radio 4 would be substantially diminished.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
I do not support the sacking of Lineker for this. But the people concerned are implicitly supporting his statements, and therefore proving that the BBC has an institutional left wing bias. If there aren't any presenters left who don't think policies to reduce migrant inflows are reminiscent of the 3rd Reich, it is not a particularly good sign.
Or, if you’re prepared to remove the blinkers for a moment, they’re calling attention to hypocrisy and political interference. They might disagree vehemently with what Lineker wrote but support his right to write it.
That maybe true but the tories now have ammunition for an all out attack on the bbc.
Agreed, I doubt it was intentional but for the section of the Tory party desperate to destroy the BBC to keep their donors happy, this has fallen into their lap. It’s the only part of this that makes me sad.
What people are missing is that the BBC had previously told Lineker not to make controversial political statements on social media. He ignored that instruction (which is there for good reasons).
It’s a management / discipline thing, not about politics.
And he told them to sod off. As it isn't applied consistently in any way. Nor does it appear to be defined. Which is why he's off air till an agreement on what it is, is reached. See Andrew Neil, Sugar, Clarkson, Karen Brady, etc., etc. And his colleagues agreed. So. If it is about management, then it's spectacularly incompetent management.
AIUI he was personally warned about his posting habits.
Management had no choice but to react (otherwise their rules are worthless). Lineker could have deescalated but chose not to.
The only mutual climb down that I can think of at this point is a final warning and a clear ban from future posting
Yes. I covered that. He was warned. He effectively told them to sod off. So here we are. The question is why others aren't being warned.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
The BBC may have to broadcast Match of the Day without commentary tonight because it does not have rights to audio supplied by Premier League Productions.
When the Match of the Day commentators declared they would not be working on the show in solidarity with Gary Lineker, they said that commentary from the Premier League’s world feed would still be available to viewers. However, The Sunday Times understands that the BBC’s highlights contract with the Premier League is limited to video, meaning it must supply its own commentary.
It is unclear whether the BBC made a direct request to the Premier League for their commentary but an insider said there was not enough time to work through any contractual issues before the show at 10.20pm tonight. The BBC said it was sorry for “limited sport programming this weekend” and that it was “working hard to resolve the situation and hopes to do so soon”. Match of the Day may have to go ahead for contractual reasons.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
The "Conservatives", Ladies and Gentlemen, a philistine and slightly drug crazed group determined to destroy anything of national standing or significance that they disagree with.
My impression is that while this government is unpopular, Lineker’s opinions are even more so. Comparing the current government to the Nazis is asinine by any standard.
Once you choose to comment on politics, you should expect pushback from those who disagree with you.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
The next Labour government needs to abolish the prospect of another Tory government by introducing PR. Solved.
A look at some of the governments which PR has produced, Israel most recently, shows that you might get very much worse than what you hoped to stop.
Israel is the exception for unique reasons of its own. Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch ) PR does that by requiring a broad church to form a government.
Given that PR Germany has both communists and fascists in its parliament and also had GazProm Schroeder and GDR Merkel in charge for 24 years would that be a 'beacon of democracy' ?
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
The Right is in power. It's just that this is what your fantasies end up looking like in reality. Not the artificial classical beauty of a Riefenstahl movie, but a bunch of oblivious idiots.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
And there you go with the tax avoider stuff again. Your arse must be sore with all the crap it is producing today.
Once again Lineker is a freelancer exactly the same as you so if he is a tax avoider so are you; you idiot.
Unless that is the HMRC are successful in arguing he is an employee of the BBC which they are trying to do. Now I am guessing you are not some hot shot employment lawyer and also know absolutely nothing about his employment terms with the various organisations he works for so you are coming to your conclusion based upon a whole pile of ignorance as normal.
You'll probably get a Labour(-led) Government before too much longer. No way on Earth are we ever getting PR. Same reason as we're never getting a devolved Parliament in England: the high commands of the big two parties in the Commons aggregating as much power to themselves as humanly possible.
Even if Labour falls well short of a majority next time, it will never give up on the possibility of getting one again in the future.
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
Grant Shapps and Suella Braverman.
Two people, one of whom was absurdly compared to Hitler? Hardly a sign of continual whingeing such that they aren't doing their jobs.
One thing which hasn't been discussed is that this is probably further reduces the odds of Boris returning to No10. The light being shined on his corruption and cronyism yet again isn't exactly helpful for him.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
And there you go with the tax avoider stuff again. Your arse must be sore with all the crap it is producing today.
Once again Lineker is a freelancer exactly the same as you so if he is a tax avoider so are you; you idiot.
Unless that is the HMRC are successful in arguing he is an employee of the BBC which they are trying to do. Now I am guessing you are not some hot shot employment lawyer and also know absolutely nothing about his employment terms with the various organisations he works for so you are coming to your conclusion based upon a whole pile of ignorance as normal.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
And there you go with the tax avoider stuff again. Your arse must be sore with all the crap it is producing today.
Once again Lineker is a freelancer exactly the same as you so if he is a tax avoider so are you; you idiot.
Unless that is the HMRC are successful in arguing he is an employee of the BBC which they are trying to do. Now I am guessing you are not some hot shot employment lawyer and also know absolutely nothing about his employment terms with the various organisations he works for so you are coming to your conclusion based upon a whole pile of ignorance as normal.
Well he did set himself up a nice tax avoidance vehicle for his house in Barbados, as revealed by the Guardian in the Panama papers.
I look forward to Lineker giving one of his many houses, or using his BBC salary to buy new houses, for every immigrant who wants to come in. And providing employment for them...
This is such a bizarre comment. Next you’ll be arguing that May should be paying for my public sector wage increase from her second income because of her magic money tree comment.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
Why? Haven't the BBC done precisely what was demanded of them?
For millions of people (it doesn't have to be more than few million to count when it comes to swing votes) the BBC is, despite its annoying stuff, one of the outstanding bits of UK life.
I doubt if I am the only PB reader for whom life without Radio 4 would be substantially diminished.
I like R4. You might question the intellectual damage done to the nation by Strictly East End Baking and Dancing though. (Or whatever it collectively is)
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
The BBC may have to broadcast Match of the Day without commentary tonight because it does not have rights to audio supplied by Premier League Productions.
It will be an interesting experiment.
I know some people were saying that not having the pundits and commentators will make no difference, but that then begs the question why every broadcaster of every sport in the World has them
The next Labour government needs to abolish the prospect of another Tory government by introducing PR. Solved.
A look at some of the governments which PR has produced, Israel most recently, shows that you might get very much worse than what you hoped to stop.
Israel is the exception for unique reasons of its own. Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch ) PR does that by requiring a broad church to form a government.
Given that PR Germany has both communists and fascists in its parliament and also had GazProm Schroeder and GDR Merkel in charge for 24 years would that be a 'beacon of democracy' ?
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
German voters got rid of Schroeder in 2005. They didn't get rid of Merkel for the very good reason that they kept reelecting her.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
And there you go with the tax avoider stuff again. Your arse must be sore with all the crap it is producing today.
Once again Lineker is a freelancer exactly the same as you so if he is a tax avoider so are you; you idiot.
Unless that is the HMRC are successful in arguing he is an employee of the BBC which they are trying to do. Now I am guessing you are not some hot shot employment lawyer and also know absolutely nothing about his employment terms with the various organisations he works for so you are coming to your conclusion based upon a whole pile of ignorance as normal.
The Left is busily heaping up the funeral pyre of the BBC - and they don’t even realise
It's not the funeral pyre of the BBC. It's the funeral pyre of its Chair and DG.
I can't wait for the Labour government to sort this out
I will presume that will be back to a Labour donors in those senior roles like before?
The reality is Lineker issue aside, the BBC has a big long term problem. The telly tax isn't enforceable or justifiable in the age of streaming and 9 million channels, and the industry is quickly being globalised by the likes of Netflix and Disney who are willing to pay massive amounts for content (Luther another popular BBC show, only ever 20 episodes made, now Netflix making movies out of the franchise). The question is how do they move forward, so far it has basically been stick head in sand, object to any change to the status quo.
Labour's answer will be protectionism:
- Special tax on streamers - Public money (ie on top of LF) given to BBC - Public money also given to other PSBs - ie ITV, C4, C5
Also Licence Fee probably replaced by tax where every household pays.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
Grant Shapps and Suella Braverman.
Two people, one of whom was absurdly compared to Hitler? Hardly a sign of continual whingeing such that they aren't doing their jobs.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Corruption?
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
Because they have some unique attribute that has perceived value? Or are just better at negotiating?
One thing which hasn't been discussed is that this is probably further reduces the odds of Boris returning to No10. The light being shined on his corruption and cronyism yet again isn't exactly helpful for him.
Depends.
If Lineker goes, expect BoZo to claim at a press conference that Lineker was still presenting when he was PM...
To be fair we were warned that BBC football commentators, pundits and crew are nothing if not principled. Who can forget how they took a stand and refused to work on Newcastle United matches when the Saudi regime bought them - solidarity with a murdered journalist like their solidarity with a suspended journalist. Kudos to them for their moral consistency.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
...perhaps it was concocted to divert attention from Rishi's footsie with Macron. It's certainly achieved that with the french media. Vive Le Lineker!
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
Grant Shapps and Suella Braverman.
Two people, one of whom was absurdly compared to Hitler? Hardly a sign of continual whingeing such that they aren't doing their jobs.
That mentioned the news story as part of a topical attack on Labour, but didn't take a position on whether the BBC should or shouldn't have done what they have done.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
And there you go with the tax avoider stuff again. Your arse must be sore with all the crap it is producing today.
Once again Lineker is a freelancer exactly the same as you so if he is a tax avoider so are you; you idiot.
Unless that is the HMRC are successful in arguing he is an employee of the BBC which they are trying to do. Now I am guessing you are not some hot shot employment lawyer and also know absolutely nothing about his employment terms with the various organisations he works for so you are coming to your conclusion based upon a whole pile of ignorance as normal.
The next Labour government needs to abolish the prospect of another Tory government by introducing PR. Solved.
A look at some of the governments which PR has produced, Israel most recently, shows that you might get very much worse than what you hoped to stop.
Israel is the exception for unique reasons of its own. Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch ) PR does that by requiring a broad church to form a government.
Given that PR Germany has both communists and fascists in its parliament and also had GazProm Schroeder and GDR Merkel in charge for 24 years would that be a 'beacon of democracy' ?
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
Communists and Fascists (and Greens) should have a voice in parliament if there is sufficient electoral support for them. The point of democracy is to avoid violent political change. Denying minorities their voice risks violence.
It seems there might be a direct connection between Lineker's tweets and his tax avoidance:
Gary Lineker’s political tweets could help the presenter avoid a £4.9m tax bill, as part of a continuing dispute about whether he should be classed as a freelance worker for the BBC and BT Sport.
The Match of the Day host is involved in a long-running legal case over whether he owes substantial back taxes relating to his work as a presenter during the mid-2010s, following fellow TV presenters Eamonn Holmes and Lorraine Kelly in facing showdowns with HMRC over their employment status.
Lineker, who until recently was the BBC’s highest-earning star on £1.75m a year, invoiced the broadcasters through a partnership called Gary Lineker Media, which was run with his ex-wife Danielle Bux.
Similar arrangements using limited companies often allow individuals to avoid paying income tax and national insurance contributions, with income instead taxed through a business as a corporate entity. HMRC has argued that in many cases company status has been abused by people who are in effect long-term employees seeking to reduce their tax
The former England football captain is now being pursued for £3,621,736 in income tax and £1,313,755 in national insurance contributions, relating to work carried out between the 2013-14 and 2017-18 tax years.
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
Which member of the Government had said anything in public about Gary Lineker, please?
Grant Shapps and Suella Braverman.
Two people, one of whom was absurdly compared to Hitler? Hardly a sign of continual whingeing such that they aren't doing their jobs.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
My impression is that while this government is unpopular, Lineker’s opinions are even more so. Comparing the current government to the Nazis is asinine by any standard.
Once you choose to comment on politics, you should expect pushback from those who disagree with you.
Of course, but until 48 hours ago, this point of view was called "woke mob shutting down free speech". So it is amusing to observe and commentate on the pivot.
If I watched any live sport broadcast, I'd want the punditry as well. When I was bothered about football, I loved the BBC coverage, actually any BBC sport coverage was OK in my book. Folks saying it'll be better with just the action are missing the point of the broadcast.
@andybell2000 Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
A guy who turns out to be a ridiculous geriatric left winger as you’d have noticed if you’d spent 3 minutes looking at his tweets. What’s the point?
Who doesn't even know who the Culture Secretary is!
It's possible that the guiidelines are fine with comparing the government to the Nazis, I suppose.
That's unfair. I can't even keep up with who the more important members of the Cabinet are these months.
I don't know if it is my age or something even more depressing but I could name all the Thatcher cabinets at the time. I could probably do more of them now than I can the current cabinet.
Lineker should do a Father Jack “I’m so, so sorry” apology that involves explaining, apologetically of course, why he became so upset by the fash-adjacent language of the government over small boats. Then he can get back to MOTD.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
That rather understates it. The way that things have developed in the last 24 hours, it's no longer just a spat with a single national icon. It's a complete clusterf**k of a row with a whole series of well liked and respected sports personalities who have taken a collective stand against an attempt to eliminate their right to speak out against the actions of a government of the day, in this case against the fag end of an utterly corrupt and discredited government relying on their appointed placemen to do their bidding.
The next Labour government needs to abolish the prospect of another Tory government by introducing PR. Solved.
A look at some of the governments which PR has produced, Israel most recently, shows that you might get very much worse than what you hoped to stop.
Israel is the exception for unique reasons of its own. Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch ) PR does that by requiring a broad church to form a government.
Given that PR Germany has both communists and fascists in its parliament and also had GazProm Schroeder and GDR Merkel in charge for 24 years would that be a 'beacon of democracy' ?
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
Communists and Fascists (and Greens) should have a voice in parliament if there is sufficient electoral support for them. The point of democracy is to avoid violent political change. Denying minorities their voice risks violence.
The Nazis got in with PR in Germany, FPTP doesn't deny minorities a voice, they can stand candidates but only get elected if they win a majority in the constituencies they stand in. PR however means they can get elected with just 5% of the vote in regions they stand in.
To be fair we were warned that BBC football commentators, pundits and crew are nothing if not principled. Who can forget how they took a stand and refused to work on Newcastle United matches when the Saudi regime bought them - solidarity with a murdered journalist like their solidarity with a suspended journalist. Kudos to them for their moral consistency.
Clever take! Do you buy all your fuel from ethical suppliers, by the way?
Still waiting for any evidence that MOTD is the “most popular tv show in Europe”
I have grave doubts this evidence will forthcome
It's up there, I'd have thought. Iconic show. Soundtrack to football, to life, muddy pitches in the 70s, Law and Bestie, it was there, Gazza exuberantly breaking his own leg in the 90s, it was there, all the way through to today's superslick game, it's still here, same time same place, Saturday night, on the BBC, da da da der da da da da da da, da der da da da der ... fronted (and well) by Gary Lineker these last 23 years but for all his intelligence and charm he is merely the custodian.
The next Labour government needs to abolish the prospect of another Tory government by introducing PR. Solved.
A look at some of the governments which PR has produced, Israel most recently, shows that you might get very much worse than what you hoped to stop.
Israel is the exception for unique reasons of its own. Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch ) PR does that by requiring a broad church to form a government.
Given that PR Germany has both communists and fascists in its parliament and also had GazProm Schroeder and GDR Merkel in charge for 24 years would that be a 'beacon of democracy' ?
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
Same applies in Germany. Quite possible that your ‘undesirables’ will be out next time. As the FDP were for a Parliament recently.
To be fair we were warned that BBC football commentators, pundits and crew are nothing if not principled. Who can forget how they took a stand and refused to work on Newcastle United matches when the Saudi regime bought them - solidarity with a murdered journalist like their solidarity with a suspended journalist. Kudos to them for their moral consistency.
Clever take! Do you buy all your fuel from ethical suppliers, by the way?
I’m completely unashamedly unethical and largely amoral. So I don’t care but then I try not to pretend to care about something rather minor having ignored something much more egregious that I could have made a stand over.
The next Labour government needs to abolish the prospect of another Tory government by introducing PR. Solved.
A look at some of the governments which PR has produced, Israel most recently, shows that you might get very much worse than what you hoped to stop.
Israel is the exception for unique reasons of its own. Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch ) PR does that by requiring a broad church to form a government.
Given that PR Germany has both communists and fascists in its parliament and also had GazProm Schroeder and GDR Merkel in charge for 24 years would that be a 'beacon of democracy' ?
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
Communists and Fascists (and Greens) should have a voice in parliament if there is sufficient electoral support for them. The point of democracy is to avoid violent political change. Denying minorities their voice risks violence.
Its the old debate about whether broad church political parties are better than a splintered party system.
Whether you want the coalitions to be within parties or between them.
Comments
Haven't the BBC done precisely what was demanded of them?
Lol
You will need to provide evidence, I’m afraid
You'll know about it when I am.
Which revolves around whether or not a media organisation should be able to get rid of employees or contractors simply because they don't like them publicly expressing their private views.
I would have thought there are at least one or two posters on here who might be concerned about that.
The rugby, not the presenters.
In fact I couldn't even say who does the rugby presenting - Gabby Logan perhaps ? I vaguely remember John Inverdale doing it.
Which illustrates the relative level of importance between sports presenters and the sport itself.
None of that is helped by the management also being rubbish of course.
Their rugby coverage on the other hand is fine. Not great, but fine.
Look at the governments elected using FPTP. US, UK, India. Hardly beacons of democracy.
Minorities need protection (except the Tory Party natch
- Special tax on streamers
- Public money (ie on top of LF) given to BBC
- Public money also given to other PSBs - ie ITV, C4, C5
Also Licence Fee probably replaced by tax where every household pays.
Simple.
For some, it is just a game of power.
And part of what we're seeing is undignified flailing as power drains from a specific group with a specific worldview.
Management had no choice but to react (otherwise their rules are worthless). Lineker could have deescalated but chose not to.
The only mutual climb down that I can think of at this point is a final warning and a clear ban from future posting
Nearly everyone who manages to get as far as boarding a boat to England - unless they are very unlucky and end up drowning in a terrible accident - will get to stay forever. The various people getting into the boats, whether they are actual refugees or not (and most of them aren't,) know this to be true, and so do all the politicians. Any rival non-plans that Labour and the Tories come out with to deal with the boats exist to hoodwink gullible voters and score points off each other, and that's it.
I have grave doubts this evidence will forthcome
@andybell2000
Permit me an observation on the controversy surrounding @GaryLineker's view on immigration and asylum as expressed in his now notorious tweet. I worked in the BBC's Editorial Complaints Unit for around a decade, adjudicating on complaints that there had been breaches
https://twitter.com/andybell2000/status/1634208918564904962
TLDR: Lineker's tweet was within the guidelines.
The Tory shills have fucked this up
The usual characters are on here, of course, squealing with priapic delight at the idea of waging culture war on Lineker, who they insist is a widely loathed figure.
But the whole thing is political insanity, appealing only to a tiny subset of weirdos who vote Tory anyway, and looking absolutely nuts to everyone else.
What Sunak, entirely understandably, had in the communications grid for this week was a message that his Government is getting a grip on the immigration issue. What it has turned into is a story about attempts to silence a sports broadcaster who is widely liked, and in the process buggering up a lot of people's Saturday night telly. At the very least it obscures the message Sunak was trying to convey, putting him on a very unattractive side of a fight he didn't plan on having.
The management are worthless...
When the Match of the Day commentators declared they would not be working on the show in solidarity with Gary Lineker, they said that commentary from the Premier League’s world feed would still be available to viewers. However, The Sunday Times understands that the BBC’s highlights contract with the Premier League is limited to video, meaning it must supply its own commentary.
It is unclear whether the BBC made a direct request to the Premier League for their commentary but an insider said there was not enough time to work through any contractual issues before the show at 10.20pm tonight. The BBC said it was sorry for “limited sport programming this weekend” and that it was “working hard to resolve the situation and hopes to do so soon”. Match of the Day may have to go ahead for contractual reasons.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gary-lineker-latest-football-focus-alex-scott-s9rl8ppmt
I doubt if I am the only PB reader for whom life without Radio 4 would be substantially diminished.
So here we are.
The question is why others aren't being warned.
It's possible that the guiidelines are fine with comparing the government to the Nazis, I suppose.
Once you choose to comment on politics, you should expect pushback from those who disagree with you.
I don’t mind who wins. Two crap teams. Just want excitement
Our politicians might be crap but at least we can get rid of them on occasions.
Once again Lineker is a freelancer exactly the same as you so if he is a tax avoider so are you; you idiot.
Unless that is the HMRC are successful in arguing he is an employee of the BBC which they are trying to do. Now I am guessing you are not some hot shot employment lawyer and also know absolutely nothing about his employment terms with the various organisations he works for so you are coming to your conclusion based upon a whole pile of ignorance as normal.
Even if Labour falls well short of a majority next time, it will never give up on the possibility of getting one again in the future.
Penny Mordaunt is another one
https://twitter.com/pennymordaunt/status/1633799441692995585?s=46&t=jkvRY6JsvE1I-2t12-QBqQ
I know some people were saying that not having the pundits and commentators will make no difference, but that then begs the question why every broadcaster of every sport in the World has them
Will they ever admit they got it wrong?
The collapse in the proportion of the world's population that is Chinese is truly astonishing.
If Lineker goes, expect BoZo to claim at a press conference that Lineker was still presenting when he was PM...
He’s not entitled to have his opinions respected.
The point of democracy is to avoid violent political change. Denying minorities their voice risks violence.
It seems there might be a direct connection between Lineker's tweets and his tax avoidance:
Gary Lineker’s political tweets could help the presenter avoid a £4.9m tax bill, as part of a continuing dispute about whether he should be classed as a freelance worker for the BBC and BT Sport.
The Match of the Day host is involved in a long-running legal case over whether he owes substantial back taxes relating to his work as a presenter during the mid-2010s, following fellow TV presenters Eamonn Holmes and Lorraine Kelly in facing showdowns with HMRC over their employment status.
Lineker, who until recently was the BBC’s highest-earning star on £1.75m a year, invoiced the broadcasters through a partnership called Gary Lineker Media, which was run with his ex-wife Danielle Bux.
Similar arrangements using limited companies often allow individuals to avoid paying income tax and national insurance contributions, with income instead taxed through a business as a corporate entity. HMRC has argued that in many cases company status has been abused by people who are in effect long-term employees seeking to reduce their tax
The former England football captain is now being pursued for £3,621,736 in income tax and £1,313,755 in national insurance contributions, relating to work carried out between the 2013-14 and 2017-18 tax years.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/may/07/gary-linekers-political-tweets-could-help-him-avoid-49m-tax-bill
"While the 2022 WPP puts the Chinese population at 1.43 billion people, I estimate that it is now smaller than 1.28 billion."
Indeed, in 1928 the Nazis got 12 Reichstag seats with just 2.6% of the vote and used that to gradually build to win most seats by 1932
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_German_federal_election
Whether you want the coalitions to be within parties or between them.