Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
This government is very light touch with the BBC, compared to that of Blair and Campbell in their pomp....
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly (and in recent past Top Gear) are far more popular and had popular spinoffs worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
We don't have a TV licence, not because I'm anti BBC but because we genuinely don't watch any content on any platform that requires one. So I'm not really bothered by its tribulations, anti/pro Government bias or how it pays its talent-I dont pay for it, so it's none of my business. I do feel that Lineker should be able to say whatever he wants on social media-as should we all- and then be accountable for what we say. Lineker's word might have been a bit strong for some, but what I take from it was that he was concerned by the words spoken by the government, not actually comparing the government to 30s Germany. He shouldn't be sacked or suspended, and for a government so unpopular, picking manufactured fights with people more popular than them, and then conducting those fights so ineptly that a major BBC programme like MOTD is disrupted is beyond Darwinism!
The problem is if you want to watch non-BBC channels you still have to pay the BBC licence fee, even if you never watch BBC programmes.
Absolutely. Them's the rules, and if you watch or record anything "live" from a "recognised" broadcasting channel (youtube lives streams dont count, but something like watching live tennis on Prime does) or watch BBC iPlayer then you need a TV licence. You can watch any other On Demand stuff you want without a licence, so there's plenty to go at.
The law is so outdated that Sky News on YouTube that's illegal to watch without a licence, but any massive YouTuber / Twitch streamer who does live shows to much bigger audiences that's perfectly legal (because they aren't available over the air).
The reality of it, nothing is actually enforceable. The only people getting done for not having paid the telly tax are because they aren't very well educated and manage to basically incriminate themselves.
Yeah. The threatening letters Capita send out get ever more nasty, but the reality of it is that the letters hold no legal authority, and you can just ignore them. It's best to just go online and tell them you don't need a licence. Saves all the hassle, although I have had over 10 ever increasingly nastier letters from them at the house we own thar we're refurbing to move into, and can't be arsed to tell them again it doesn't need a licence.
Got those for my late dad's house. Even less sense as it's not even as much of an offence in Scotland as it is south of the border.
Though the BBC likes to keep such things in the dark, I believe Scotland has the highest refusal rate on the licence in the UK. I imagine discretion is the better part of valour north of Gretna, and the detector vans and associated bs are even more phantasmogoric.
I think I'm right in saying that there has never been a conviction on the evidence supplied by a detector van. Because they have never existed....
"Detection" involved peering through windows to see the tell-tale brightening and darkening light given off by a telly.
Watch a TV behind thick curtains and with the lights on.
Or buy a licence, of course. Which I still do. Well, somebody has to keep Garry Lineker in gold bars.
Although its days may be limited. With the very few series I watch on "live" TV, it would be cheaper to buy the series I want.
Post the acquisition of Starlink, I have been enjoying various "Walter Presents" on the computer.
Any Walter Presents recommendations?
I watched all 5 series of Ice Cold Murders, set in the Val D'Aosta north of Turin. A rather cranky detective banished there from Rome, I probably enjoyed it more than most would because I have stayed in a friend's place up there - and the detective very much reminds me of a chain-smoking friend. Plus he gets a dog that steals every scene!
There's Deutchsland 83, 86 and 89 of course. Agatha Christie's Hjerson is determinedly quirky but was worth watching through. Just started watching Arctic Circle set in Lapland. Told me of the concept of the Whore Bus, that, er, straddles northern Finland and Russia (not sure they will survive Finland joining NATO...).
Thanks. I trust your opinion on tv/film if not much else
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I’m a lefty who thinks Lineker’s comments were not appropriate.
Me too. But that isn't the question at hand at all.
I think people are highly confused about the question. This is not about free speech, it’s about BBC neutrality in an age of social media, and government interference.
Can't believe that people are still talking about Lineker. It's just not that interesting. BBC management incompetent: who knew? BBC employs and grossly overpays prima donnas? Colour me astonished. Said overpaid prima donna proves Cameron's lasting contribution to public life yet again: quelle surprise.
How on earth is this news?
I don't think there is anything wrong with the tweet. If he didn't work for the BBC it wouldn't be an issue.
There's a sensitivity about likening anything in the here & now to anything to do with Hitler and the Nazis. I think this is generally a good thing. That was a 'special' most heinous evil and it shouldn't be cheapened by false/facile/hyperbolic comparisons or strained contextualizing. It deserves a sort of reverence.
OTOH, "Lessons From History", this phrase, it presumably means doing everything possible to ensure such an unspeakable horror never happens again. Part of this is surely to be alert to echoes of how it got traction in its early days back then. If you can't mention any similarities until they've become VERY similar the chances are it might be a bit late.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
He really hasn't. The fault lies entirely with the BBC and a clapped out Tory government.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
So our two most recent Scotland threads have garnered over 1,000 comments.
I'll think I'll join the fray with a Scotland thread too.
I will use all my expertise on Scotland to make a bold prediction.
My expertise that helped me win lots of money on Scottish politics over the last 15 years such as the SNP winning a majority, No to win, the SNP surge in 2015, the Tory surge in 2017, and that Alba would be all fart and no follow through in 2021.
"One of the many questions raised by Gary and his tweets is while he has been asked to ‘step back’ why is a man who is reported to have donated £400k to the Conservative Party still the chairman of the BBC. I have been asked this many times now.
If perception is important how will the BBC deal with that issue?
I struggled with posting this because I felt fearful to do so. But then realised that this is a legitimate question that would be discussed on my show.
I feel sad that I should feel fearful though. I believe in the BBC passionately but consistency is important."
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
LOL You really live in a world of your own don't you? There are only two organisations that have f****d this up as you put it and they are:
The Tory party The BBC
The only thing Lineker did was tweet in his own time. Tell me how is this any different from Andrew Neil or Jeremy Clarkson who both did exactly the same thing all the time.
I'd forgotten about Clarkson. Of course, he mocked Gordon Brown's blindness when Brown was PM, but I heard no call from the British Right for him to be sacked from the BBC. Indeed, the British Right were campaigning for Clarkson to remain in place even when he beat up that man for not providing him with food.
“No-one who works for us, or appears on our platforms, is allowed to get involved in politics or current affairs on social media”
Or
“We believe in freedom of speech, and things said by individuals on their own channels are not representative of the BBC”.
My £10 says they instead try and equivocate between the two positions, depending on exactly who said what and when, thus making things even more of a mess and trying to police the internet.
Personally I’ll go with the free speech argument, whether that’s Jeremy Clarkson or Gary Lineker.
At the moment, their position appears to be closer to the former with some caveats:
i.e. "No-one who works for us, or appears on our platforms, is allowed to get involved in politics or current affairs on social media, in so far as they are going to make any comment critical of a Conservative Government or Conservative politicians.”
And without the last bit that would still be at variance with the BBC's own guidelines, which state that the ability to comment depends on the sort of work a presenter is involved in, and give a specific illustrative example differentiating between restrictions on those involved in current affairs and those involved in sporting programmes.
Lineker was a professional footballer well over 25 years ago - he retired in 1994. Even given his golden boot, his subsequent prominence is largely down to the gigs the BBC gives him.
The BBC has given him a post-retirement sinecure that is worthy of Croesus. A million, two million a year. And he doesn't do much for that; outside football and selling crisps, he's absent.
He uses that prominence - repeatedly - to score political points. Of course that reflects on the BBC.
In terms of loyalty to those who reward them handsomely, this episode has confirmed that Tim Davie and Richard Sharp are leading from the front. It stinks.
This is the problem with political appointees - or appointees that can look political. It can be made to appear as though it stinks.
IMV, the question is: did Lineker's tweet reflect poorly on the BBC? I'd argue yes, given the number of followers his team-mates from the 1980s have. His prominence is largely down to his having been on the BBC for twenty years.
Oh it stinks all right. Everything about Sharp's appointment already stunk. The stink has just got to another level now, and dragged in Davie too. As you say, both political appointments. Whose actions are reflecting incredibly badly on the BBC and more importantly on the Government which appointed them both.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
Whether you intend to or not, this reads as exculpatory to the present government, who are drenched in dirt and have done their level best to suborn the BBC.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
Great result for Liverpool today, all part of the grand plan to ensure Everton get relegated, it is why we've lost to Forest, Dirty Leeds, Wolves, and Bournemouth this season.
I was expecting a dire sporting Saturday, England are going to get humped by the French today, to cap of a week of national humiliation for England and the UK.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
I do not support the sacking of Lineker for this. But the people concerned are implicitly supporting his statements, and therefore proving that the BBC has an institutional left wing bias. If there aren't any presenters left who don't think policies to reduce migrant inflows are reminiscent of the 3rd Reich, it is not a particularly good sign.
Or, if you’re prepared to remove the blinkers for a moment, they’re calling attention to hypocrisy and political interference. They might disagree vehemently with what Lineker wrote but support his right to write it.
That maybe true but the tories now have ammunition for an all out attack on the bbc.
Agreed, I doubt it was intentional but for the section of the Tory party desperate to destroy the BBC to keep their donors happy, this has fallen into their lap. It’s the only part of this that makes me sad.
What people are missing is that the BBC had previously told Lineker not to make controversial political statements on social media. He ignored that instruction (which is there for good reasons).
It’s a management / discipline thing, not about politics.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
He really hasn't. The fault lies entirely with the BBC and a clapped out Tory government.
QED
The BBC have failed to clarify or enforce whatever guidelines they have, and it is a clapped out Tory government blundering into the mess. Lineker's comments might be intemperate, but surely you agree he has the right to say them on his personal twitter feed?
Great result for Liverpool today, all part of the grand plan to ensure Everton get relegated, it is why we've lost to Forest, Dirty Leeds, Forest, Wolves, and Bournemouth this season.
I was expecting a dire sporting Saturday, England are going to get humped by the French today, to cap of a week of national humiliation for England and the UK.
Not entirely sure we really need your help with that thanks.
Meanwhile the collapse of SVB is going to rattle the markets on Monday... Just when Sunak thought he had caught a break on the NI protocol it will be back to full on crisis mode...
A number of smaller SV companies might go under on Monday unless they can put bridge loans in place over the weekend. They simply won’t be able to make payroll otherwise.
Hearing there's a big push in the Tech Bro community to get Jeremy Hunt to intervene to help SVB UK.
What would they want him to do?
Apparently the BoE is putting it into resolution. Whatever that means.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and had popular spinoffs worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
"Strictly Come Dancing" is one franchise, but in each country there is a different production, show and host. Thinking about the UK edition, it has a great concept that's more original than MOTD (if that even means anything for a 60-year old show), but its season is a lot shorter, at effectively a few months in peak viewing season for a few hours a week. Further factors I'm thinking about: it faces much less competition; there aren't many other shows doing the same thing. It also receives a lot more cross-promotion than MOTD.
We don't have a TV licence, not because I'm anti BBC but because we genuinely don't watch any content on any platform that requires one. So I'm not really bothered by its tribulations, anti/pro Government bias or how it pays its talent-I dont pay for it, so it's none of my business. I do feel that Lineker should be able to say whatever he wants on social media-as should we all- and then be accountable for what we say. Lineker's word might have been a bit strong for some, but what I take from it was that he was concerned by the words spoken by the government, not actually comparing the government to 30s Germany. He shouldn't be sacked or suspended, and for a government so unpopular, picking manufactured fights with people more popular than them, and then conducting those fights so ineptly that a major BBC programme like MOTD is disrupted is beyond Darwinism!
The problem is if you want to watch non-BBC channels you still have to pay the BBC licence fee, even if you never watch BBC programmes.
Absolutely. Them's the rules, and if you watch or record anything "live" from a "recognised" broadcasting channel (youtube lives streams dont count, but something like watching live tennis on Prime does) or watch BBC iPlayer then you need a TV licence. You can watch any other On Demand stuff you want without a licence, so there's plenty to go at.
The law is so outdated that Sky News on YouTube that's illegal to watch without a licence, but any massive YouTuber / Twitch streamer who does live shows to much bigger audiences that's perfectly legal (because they aren't available over the air).
The reality of it, nothing is actually enforceable. The only people getting done for not having paid the telly tax are because they aren't very well educated and manage to basically incriminate themselves.
Yeah. The threatening letters Capita send out get ever more nasty, but the reality of it is that the letters hold no legal authority, and you can just ignore them. It's best to just go online and tell them you don't need a licence. Saves all the hassle, although I have had over 10 ever increasingly nastier letters from them at the house we own thar we're refurbing to move into, and can't be arsed to tell them again it doesn't need a licence.
Got those for my late dad's house. Even less sense as it's not even as much of an offence in Scotland as it is south of the border.
Though the BBC likes to keep such things in the dark, I believe Scotland has the highest refusal rate on the licence in the UK. I imagine discretion is the better part of valour north of Gretna, and the detector vans and associated bs are even more phantasmogoric.
I think I'm right in saying that there has never been a conviction on the evidence supplied by a detector van. Because they have never existed....
"Detection" involved peering through windows to see the tell-tale brightening and darkening light given off by a telly.
Watch a TV behind thick curtains and with the lights on.
Or buy a licence, of course. Which I still do. Well, somebody has to keep Garry Lineker in gold bars.
Although its days may be limited. With the very few series I watch on "live" TV, it would be cheaper to buy the series I want.
Post the acquisition of Starlink, I have been enjoying various "Walter Presents" on the computer.
Any Walter Presents recommendations?
I watched all 5 series of Ice Cold Murders, set in the Val D'Aosta north of Turin. A rather cranky detective banished there from Rome, I probably enjoyed it more than most would because I have stayed in a friend's place up there - and the detective very much reminds me of a chain-smoking friend. Plus he gets a dog that steals every scene!
There's Deutchsland 83, 86 and 89 of course. Agatha Christie's Hjerson is determinedly quirky but was worth watching through. Just started watching Arctic Circle set in Lapland. Told me of the concept of the Whore Bus, that, er, straddles northern Finland and Russia (not sure they will survive Finland joining NATO...).
Not sure if it's on Walter Presents - but you might enjoy 'Pagan Peak'. German/Austrian detective series set in the alps. Starts off and you think "Oh, this is just The Bridge, right?" then goes very much on it's own path. I've just started watching 'Dark Woods' and it seems pretty decent so far too.
Yes, Pagan Peak was excellent, the central male character quite intriguingly drawn and acted by Matthias Hack. The second series was somewhat more pedestrian, perhaps because they revealed the perpetrator too early.
Rebekka Martinson: Arctic Murders was watchable if only for the quite mesmerically gorgeous Sascha Zacharias in the second series...
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
Whether you intend to or not, this reads as exculpatory to the present government, who are drenched in dirt and have done their level best to suborn the BBC.
Indeed. But they haven't done anywhere near as good (bad?) job of it as Labour did back then. Maybe that'd due to the fact they haven't tried as hard; to a natural resistance within the BBC, or just events. But any government will try to get the BBC on side, by hook or crook.
That doesn't make it right: but hearing people on hear screech about this (when Lineker is IMIO bang to rights) and blaming the government, whilst ignoring past precedence, is hilarious.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
I do not support the sacking of Lineker for this. But the people concerned are implicitly supporting his statements, and therefore proving that the BBC has an institutional left wing bias. If there aren't any presenters left who don't think policies to reduce migrant inflows are reminiscent of the 3rd Reich, it is not a particularly good sign.
Or, if you’re prepared to remove the blinkers for a moment, they’re calling attention to hypocrisy and political interference. They might disagree vehemently with what Lineker wrote but support his right to write it.
That maybe true but the tories now have ammunition for an all out attack on the bbc.
Agreed, I doubt it was intentional but for the section of the Tory party desperate to destroy the BBC to keep their donors happy, this has fallen into their lap. It’s the only part of this that makes me sad.
What people are missing is that the BBC had previously told Lineker not to make controversial political statements on social media. He ignored that instruction (which is there for good reasons).
It’s a management / discipline thing, not about politics.
And he told them to sod off. As it isn't applied consistently in any way. Nor does it appear to be defined. Which is why he's off air till an agreement on what it is, is reached. See Andrew Neil, Sugar, Clarkson, Karen Brady, etc., etc. And his colleagues agreed. So. If it is about management, then it's spectacularly incompetent management.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
Very easy.
Opinion = Party approved, including "officially disapproved but yes of course between you and me we really agree" viewpoint. Biassed = everything else.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
I think the BBC claim they get somewhere between 7-10 million across both shows on the weekend when they add in iplayer catch-up. A lot of double counting there, but it does have a high viewership (although I think 10 years ago it was doing 6-7 million live every Saturday alone).
How much of that is people just scrubbing through to see the highlights of their team (rather than the whole show), that would be interesting to know. I would guess its a substantial amount of the catchup viewers.
Meanwhile the collapse of SVB is going to rattle the markets on Monday... Just when Sunak thought he had caught a break on the NI protocol it will be back to full on crisis mode...
A number of smaller SV companies might go under on Monday unless they can put bridge loans in place over the weekend. They simply won’t be able to make payroll otherwise.
The next shoe is companies with tranches venture debt facilities - they won’t be able to draw down
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
I think the BBC claim they get somewhere between 7-10 million across both shows on the weekend when they add in iplayer catch-up. A lot of double counting there, but it does have a high viewership (although I think 10 years ago it was doing 6-7 million live every Saturday alone).
How much of that is people just scrubbing through to see the highlights of their team (rather than the whole show), that would be interesting to know. I would guess its a substantial amount of the catchup viewers.
And you have to include catch-up / DVR for the 'competing' shows as well...
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
LOL You really live in a world of your own don't you? There are only two organisations that have f****d this up as you put it and they are:
The Tory party The BBC
The only thing Lineker did was tweet in his own time. Tell me how is this any different from Andrew Neil or Jeremy Clarkson who both did exactly the same thing all the time.
I'd forgotten about Clarkson. Of course, he mocked Gordon Brown's blindness when Brown was PM, but I heard no call from the British Right for him to be sacked from the BBC. Indeed, the British Right were campaigning for Clarkson to remain in place even when he beat up that man for not providing him with food.
Clarkson should have definitely been fired for mocking Brown's blindness and I said so at the time.
Starmer: "[The Government] will blame everybody else apart from themselves. They should stand up and take responsibility, stop whingeing about Gary Lineker and get on with the job."
The assumption in that is that it will still be around to abolish. Weirdly, by far the best things I have watched on the BBC over the last few years have not been on their channels at all. Their Made in America documentary about OJ was just an immense piece of documentary making, Fort Salem was good fun and their documentary on the lead up to the Ukraine war was magnificent (I think in fairness that was on a channel but I watched all 3 back to back on iPlayer).
Channels are so archaic. Its time we gave up on them altogether.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
I look forward to Lineker giving one of his many houses, or using his BBC salary to buy new houses, for every immigrant who wants to come in. And providing employment for them...
No one seems to have asked an obvious question about pay
What do the French, Spanish and German equivalents of Mr Lineker get paid?
Obviously somewhat different markets, but it would give a clue
What about in American Baseball and Football - big money sports? Seem to recall ex players can get pretty nice fees for commentating.
I don't think you can compare US sports. Again I think you will find that those on big money in US sports do more than just present a highlight package programme some of the time it is on. They like Sky Sports well paid "presenters" asked to do commentary, analysis, interviews, appears on the connected sports talk radio / tv. Also their market is 300 million Americans, plus they syndicate a lot of it to other countries.
But even then, Scott Hanson who presents RedZone, the massively popular NFL show, he does 7hrs a week live, every week, and the reports are he gets $200k a year.
Charles Barkley is one of the biggest names in US punditry, he gets $1.5 million a year, but that is a sport that basically plays every night and he is expected to be on a lot more than 20-30 nights a year.
I’m a lefty who thinks Lineker’s comments were not appropriate.
But does he have the right to express them in a non BBC context?
He had the right to express them politically and his employer had the right to discipline over them. That said, it is ridiculous for the employer to do so when it doesn't have clear standards and has overlooked worse in the past. Terrible BBC incompetence.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
I see a solution here. Tory party should set up a committee. If any BBC employee wants to express an opinion then they should submit that opinion to it. If the committee deems it insufficiently sensible and helpful then it shall never see the light of day.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
Peak ratings are part of the story, but most of that list was ensemble soap or prestige dramas, where there are up to a dozen people fronting an hour or two of prime-time content, sometimes for just a few weeks. For example, "Call the Midwife" is just eight hours of content a year. That is a very different baseline to hours of mid-afternoon weekend TV: put simply, a lot of people even nowadays just have the TV on because it's nighttime. The other most popular TV shows by that measure are news programming, which has basically the same economics as a sports show: anyone can recreate almost all of the content and format if they pay for it, so the personalities sell the show.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker offers as many alternatives as the Labour Party: precisely none.
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
The BBC is not what it was, but you'd miss it more than you think if it was gone. Our culture will go more the way of Australia's without it, under the template Murdoch would roughly admire - a slightly tamed Americanism, with much less that's distinctive.
It need to be retained, revitalised, and given explicit license to be both the extremely bold and traditional force as it was before it adopted a more commercial ethos.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
This board would be conspicuously sparse if condition 2) were applied. As for 1). Not arguing that point. It is an opinion. One you are free to disagree with.
If the question of what his salary is and who pays it is in the slightest relevant then that is a very slippery slope indeed.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
LOL You really live in a world of your own don't you? There are only two organisations that have f****d this up as you put it and they are:
The Tory party The BBC
The only thing Lineker did was tweet in his own time. Tell me how is this any different from Andrew Neil or Jeremy Clarkson who both did exactly the same thing all the time.
I'd forgotten about Clarkson. Of course, he mocked Gordon Brown's blindness when Brown was PM, but I heard no call from the British Right for him to be sacked from the BBC. Indeed, the British Right were campaigning for Clarkson to remain in place even when he beat up that man for not providing him with food.
Clarkson should have definitely been fired for mocking Brown's blindness and I said so at the time.
BBC got themselves in an equal mess with Clarkson. They let him get away with things because Top Gear made such unbelievable amounts of money for the BBC. I believe at its peak it was making $200+ million a year in revenue for BBC Worldwide.
Inconsistency is the big problem here. Some get away with all sorts, not just overpaid sports or car show presenters, but parts of the news output, other people at the BBC have got canned for some minor offense caused.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
I see a solution here. Tory party should set up a committee. If any BBC employee wants to express an opinion then they should submit that opinion to it. If the committee deems it insufficiently sensible and helpful then it shall never see the light of day.
If Lineker had made repeated comments about how good Mussolini was, would you feel the same way?
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
1 is correct. 2 is irrelevant - Labour need to give their alternative but Lineker isn't a politician.
Some people believe the politicisation of everything is a good idea. This saga with the BBC and Lineker shows why it isn't.
That sounds like a strawman to me. I think many people believe that making things about politics is good when their friends do it, and bad when their opponents do it. But expressing it this way, it doesn't seem to be a very clever or novel point, just common sense.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Corruption?
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker offers as many alternatives as the Labour Party: precisely none.
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
I don't understand why Lineker has to have a solution to any particular problem, same as I don't have a solution to anything of national importance. He expresses a sincerely held opinion on what he thinks the government are doing. Admittedly, he does hate the government but that can be said for around 70% of the population if you believe current polling. It's the government's job to come up with solutions....which it clearly hasn't!
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Corruption?
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
Are you seriously saying Lineker is personally corrupt?
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
Peak ratings are part of the story, but most of that list was ensemble soap or prestige dramas, where there are up to a dozen people fronting an hour or two of prime-time content, sometimes for just a few weeks. For example, "Call the Midwife" is just eight hours of content a year. That is a very different baseline to hours of mid-afternoon weekend TV: put simply, a lot of people even nowadays just have the TV on because it's nighttime. The other most popular TV shows by that measure are news programming, which has basically the same economics as a sports show: anyone can recreate almost all of the content and format if they pay for it, so the personalities sell the show.
MOTD isn't 52 weeks of the year, either.
And many of the list, say, Coronation Street, Eastenders, the Chase or BBC News, has many, many more viewers.
I'd also disagree that 'personalities' sells TV news. But if you are right, then it's an argument against what Lineker said.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Corruption?
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
Why are derivative traders paid more than social workers? There's no formal qualifications for the former and plenty of folk willing to do it. The opposite for the latter. It's an interesting topic. But sod all to do with Lineker, the BBC and the government.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
I see a solution here. Tory party should set up a committee. If any BBC employee wants to express an opinion then they should submit that opinion to it. If the committee deems it insufficiently sensible and helpful then it shall never see the light of day.
If Lineker had made repeated comments about how good Mussolini was, would you feel the same way?
No I wouldn't. But then I wouldn't put the advocation of fascism on the same shelf as criticising the perceived inhumanity of a government's asylum policy.
Some people believe the politicisation of everything is a good idea. This saga with the BBC and Lineker shows why it isn't.
Indeed, let's stop Andrew Neil Tweeting too and also Lord Sugar. But oddly silence on them, why?
Because when today's BBC say 'impartiality' what they mean is: *setting a news agenda that is based on the assumption that a certain perspective is objectively correct and attacking any deviation from that agenda *soft-soaping ministers who are actually responsible for stuff and then going at their shadows, who aren't, like a rabid dog *stacking news discussion programmes with think tank Tory shills and not telling the viewer who they are rather claiming them to be some kind of authority on the matter at hand
LOL at the BBC continuing to tie themselves up in knots over Gary Lineker. There’s now almost no good way out for them.
All Lineker had to do was say a qualified Sorry. His moral vanity is entirely to blame. And he’s fucked up the BBC, which all his PB supporters profess to love
If we live in a society whose citizens are obliged to issue apologies to the government then that is truly frightening.
No he would be apologising to BBC license fee payers. WHO PAY HIS WAGES
I don't think it would be too much of a hazard to guess that a large majority of those licence fee payers have absolutely no interest in or need for an apology. Even most of those who disagree with what he said agree he has a right to say it
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
Whatever. The BBC is finished. We now know that most of them will go on strike to defend the right of a multimillionaire virtue-signalling overpaid lefty tax avoider - whose salary is paid by every British taxpayer - to ludicrously compare the democratically elected British government to the Nazis
Enough. Kill it off
Viewers can vote with their feet if they don't like the views, expressed on Twitter, of a sports presenter.
If they want to join you in drawing the curtains and flicking between GB News and Babestation, responding equivalently to the content of both, that's up to them.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
I see a solution here. Tory party should set up a committee. If any BBC employee wants to express an opinion then they should submit that opinion to it. If the committee deems it insufficiently sensible and helpful then it shall never see the light of day.
Why should the Tory Party have to implement BBC policies?
This situation is not of the Government's making. It is because BBC management are shite. Simple as that.
They have been shite for decades. They COULD have been the ultimate media brand, worldwide. Instead, they sat on their hands, comfortable in the knowledge that everyone in the UK with a telly would pay them their poll tax, whether they watched their output or not. Fat, stupid and lazy, the ever-diminshing BBC is the whirlwind they are reaping.
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Corruption?
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
Are you seriously saying Lineker is personally corrupt?
Well, the taxman might have a say in that.
But as it happens, I was responding to the question: "Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid?"
The more someone gets paid, the greater the chances of corruption - because the rewards are greater. If someone gets paid a million pounds for something which only one man and his dog watches, then it's reasonable to ask why. Opaqueness and clarity matter, especially when someone has real power and influence - as Lineker is showing he has through this very story.
(As it happens, I believe football is institutionally corrupt, from top to bottom,. But that's a whole different argument.)
Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world. I get that football is not electoral history or trainspotting, so perhaps hard to imagine the magnitude of popularity it enjoys, but we are talking about one of the biggest roles in entertainment, and likely you would not get the requisite talent to beat Sky for, say, £150k. Also clear: if nobody paid attention to Lineker, this wouldn't be a story. I suspect Lineker, the BBC and the Tories all know he reaches large audiences that don't follow politics closely outside election time.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly are far more popular and gone worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
What are MOTD's viewing figures? The link I gave earlier showed it not to be on the 50th most-watched shows on UK TV (*). In which case, why is its 'star' the highest-paid BBC figure?
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
I think its about 2-3 million live I think there is a fair amount of catchup viewing though.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Of no relevance whatsoever to the issue though. That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
Why is it the viewership of the program irrelevant? I reckon the Sky at Night crew should be on at least two million a year. I mean, I know it doesn't get the same amount of viewers, but it's always brilliant.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid? It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Corruption?
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
Why are derivative traders paid more than social workers? There's no formal qualifications for the former and plenty of folk willing to do it. The opposite for the latter. It's an interesting topic. But sod all to do with Lineker, the BBC and the government.
You are comparing apples and oranges. I'm comparing pay for TV (and radio) shows.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
We don't have a TV licence, not because I'm anti BBC but because we genuinely don't watch any content on any platform that requires one. So I'm not really bothered by its tribulations, anti/pro Government bias or how it pays its talent-I dont pay for it, so it's none of my business. I do feel that Lineker should be able to say whatever he wants on social media-as should we all- and then be accountable for what we say. Lineker's word might have been a bit strong for some, but what I take from it was that he was concerned by the words spoken by the government, not actually comparing the government to 30s Germany. He shouldn't be sacked or suspended, and for a government so unpopular, picking manufactured fights with people more popular than them, and then conducting those fights so ineptly that a major BBC programme like MOTD is disrupted is beyond Darwinism!
The problem is if you want to watch non-BBC channels you still have to pay the BBC licence fee, even if you never watch BBC programmes.
Absolutely. Them's the rules, and if you watch or record anything "live" from a "recognised" broadcasting channel (youtube lives streams dont count, but something like watching live tennis on Prime does) or watch BBC iPlayer then you need a TV licence. You can watch any other On Demand stuff you want without a licence, so there's plenty to go at.
The law is so outdated that Sky News on YouTube that's illegal to watch without a licence, but any massive YouTuber / Twitch streamer who does live shows to much bigger audiences that's perfectly legal (because they aren't available over the air).
The reality of it, nothing is actually enforceable. The only people getting done for not having paid the telly tax are because they aren't very well educated and manage to basically incriminate themselves.
Yeah. The threatening letters Capita send out get ever more nasty, but the reality of it is that the letters hold no legal authority, and you can just ignore them. It's best to just go online and tell them you don't need a licence. Saves all the hassle, although I have had over 10 ever increasingly nastier letters from them at the house we own thar we're refurbing to move into, and can't be arsed to tell them again it doesn't need a licence.
Got those for my late dad's house. Even less sense as it's not even as much of an offence in Scotland as it is south of the border.
Though the BBC likes to keep such things in the dark, I believe Scotland has the highest refusal rate on the licence in the UK. I imagine discretion is the better part of valour north of Gretna, and the detector vans and associated bs are even more phantasmogoric.
I think I'm right in saying that there has never been a conviction on the evidence supplied by a detector van. Because they have never existed....
"Detection" involved peering through windows to see the tell-tale brightening and darkening light given off by a telly.
Watch a TV behind thick curtains and with the lights on.
Or buy a licence, of course. Which I still do. Well, somebody has to keep Garry Lineker in gold bars.
Although its days may be limited. With the very few series I watch on "live" TV, it would be cheaper to buy the series I want.
Post the acquisition of Starlink, I have been enjoying various "Walter Presents" on the computer.
Any Walter Presents recommendations?
I watched all 5 series of Ice Cold Murders, set in the Val D'Aosta north of Turin. A rather cranky detective banished there from Rome, I probably enjoyed it more than most would because I have stayed in a friend's place up there - and the detective very much reminds me of a chain-smoking friend. Plus he gets a dog that steals every scene!
There's Deutchsland 83, 86 and 89 of course. Agatha Christie's Hjerson is determinedly quirky but was worth watching through. Just started watching Arctic Circle set in Lapland. Told me of the concept of the Whore Bus, that, er, straddles northern Finland and Russia (not sure they will survive Finland joining NATO...).
Not sure if it's on Walter Presents - but you might enjoy 'Pagan Peak'. German/Austrian detective series set in the alps. Starts off and you think "Oh, this is just The Bridge, right?" then goes very much on it's own path. I've just started watching 'Dark Woods' and it seems pretty decent so far too.
Yes, Pagan Peak was excellent, the central male character quite intriguingly drawn and acted by Matthias Hack. The second series was somewhat more pedestrian, perhaps because they revealed the perpetrator too early.
Rebekka Martinson: Arctic Murders was watchable if only for the quite mesmerically gorgeous Sascha Zacharias in the second series...
Yes - I enjoyed the Arctic Murders too. I didn't even realise there was a 2nd series of Pagan Peak. I shall grab that later - ta!
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Why pick a week when it wasn't broadcast?
I think we can guess why.
When broadcast it normally gets just over 3 million viewers, which is the highest rated programme at 10:30 or later all week.
I did search through other weeks as well. Please, find one where it was in the top 50 - I couldn't,
Every week it is broadcast - look the previous week for example it had 3,139,000 viewers - 35th out of the top 50 programmes. It is fairly consistent at about that number most weeks.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker offers as many alternatives as the Labour Party: precisely none.
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
I don't understand why Lineker has to have a solution to any particular problem, same as I don't have a solution to anything of national importance. He expresses a sincerely held opinion on what he thinks the government are doing. Admittedly, he does hate the government but that can be said for around 70% of the population if you believe current polling. It's the government's job to come up with solutions....which it clearly hasn't!
It has come up with a solution - a solution which Lineker doesn't like.
He just sounds like a lefty blowhard when he offers no alternative. As with the Labour Party. They are the Andy Pipkin of modern political discourse: "I don't like it."
Well, what the fuck DO you like? Give us a clue...
The BBC now reports that the English-language World Service Saturday afternoon sports magazine, scheduled to run for nearly four hourse, is "currently not on air".
The Left is busily heaping up the funeral pyre of the BBC - and they don’t even realise
It's not the funeral pyre of the BBC. It's the funeral pyre of its Chair and DG.
I can't wait for the Labour government to sort this out
I will presume that will be back to a Labour donors in those senior roles like before?
The reality is Lineker issue aside, the BBC has a big long term problem. The telly tax isn't enforceable or justifiable in the age of streaming and 9 million channels, and the industry is quickly being globalised by the likes of Netflix and Disney who are willing to pay massive amounts for content (Luther another popular BBC show, only ever 20 episodes made, now Netflix making movies out of the franchise). The question is how do they move forward, so far it has basically been stick head in sand, object to any change to the status quo.
"Lineker is frontman for what is probably the most popular and best-known TV show in Europe, and perhaps one of the most popular TV shows in the the world."
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
You think MOTD is some little-known obscurity?
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
The Tories need to find a way to stop the Lineker story. Not quite as bad as nurses, but right now their political capital is so low they cannot afford a spat with a national icon. They will lose. The whole Tory place man as chair completely undermines them.
This is farcically wrong
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
Why pick a week when it wasn't broadcast?
I think we can guess why.
When broadcast it normally gets just over 3 million viewers, which is the highest rated programme at 10:30 or later all week.
I did search through other weeks as well. Please, find one where it was in the top 50 - I couldn't,
Every week it is broadcast - look the previous week for example it had 3,139,000 viewers - 35th out of the top 50 programmes. It is fairly consistent at about that number most weeks.
Can't believe that people are still talking about Lineker. It's just not that interesting. BBC management incompetent: who knew? BBC employs and grossly overpays prima donnas? Colour me astonished. Said overpaid prima donna proves Cameron's lasting contribution to public life yet again: quelle surprise.
How on earth is this news?
I don't think there is anything wrong with the tweet. If he didn't work for the BBC it wouldn't be an issue.
There's a sensitivity about likening anything in the here & now to anything to do with Hitler and the Nazis. I think this is generally a good thing. That was a 'special' most heinous evil and it shouldn't be cheapened by false/facile/hyperbolic comparisons or strained contextualizing. It deserves a sort of reverence.
OTOH, "Lessons From History", this phrase, it presumably means doing everything possible to ensure such an unspeakable horror never happens again. Part of this is surely to be alert to echoes of how it got traction in its early days back then. If you can't mention any similarities until they've become VERY similar the chances are it might be a bit late.
I don't agree. If politicians are using rhetoric that was being used in 1930s Germany people are well within their rights to speak about the dangers of it. Bravermann was actually challenged on the language she was using regards migrants at a public event recently - by a holocaust survivor who made that exact comparison.
Blimey. Five Live off air. I’m not sure what the off ramp is here. The BBC can’t really back down, but without Lineker being back on air will the rest come back? And why would Lineker now compromise if he has this much support?
Presumably the BBC sport producers are working hard to find people who will work, and I guess that for some of the pundits money will eventually talk.
Has the whole station gone off air ? They're really facing a strike situation if so.
Yes. They are playing repeats of podcasts just now. There'll be no Six Nations commentary. It's wider than presenters and football. It's a wildcat strike by the whole sports department. Better hope it doesn't spread to news.
Will even one PB lefty admit that Lineker has fucked this all up?
Not me. The BBC has fucked this up. Par for the course for an organisation run by the Tories. They've fucked every other one up.
If you think the BBC is run by 'the Tories', then you should really look at some official media in other countries to see real political bias. Or even the BBC post-Hutton. Or even the BBC.
The BBC has a difficult job trying to run a knife-edge between competing political parties. It is subjective, but the vast majority of its output manages to do that. Its position isn't helped by stupid, overpaid sports pundits weighing in with whatever verbal diarrhea passes through their mind at any moment.
But they have installed placemen and women all over the management of the organisation. The experience of other countries is precisely what they are working towards. Hence where we are.
I would refer you back twenty years to the Hutton mess - that saw someone sadly commit suicide. Do you condemn what the (Labour) government did then?
It's particularly hilarious seeing the piece of sh*t Alastair Campbell droning on about the Lineker case, given that.
What happened 20 years ago doesn't justify what happens now.
It does, and it doesn't. Both are wrong. But *if* you claim the government are trying to interfere with the BBC now, then what went on then is orders of magnitude more egregious. Lineker's apparently made many comments that are overtly politically biased.
What's the difference between biased and opinion? All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
I'd argue Lineker's latest tweet goes well beyond opinion, for two reasons:
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis. 2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
Lineker offers as many alternatives as the Labour Party: precisely none.
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
I don't understand why Lineker has to have a solution to any particular problem, same as I don't have a solution to anything of national importance. He expresses a sincerely held opinion on what he thinks the government are doing. Admittedly, he does hate the government but that can be said for around 70% of the population if you believe current polling. It's the government's job to come up with solutions....which it clearly hasn't!
It has come up with a solution - a solution which Lineker doesn't like.
He just sounds like a lefty blowhard when he offers no alternative. As with the Labour Party. They are the Andy Pipkin of modern political discourse: "I don't like it."
Well, what the fuck DO you like? Give us a clue...
If Tories froth at the mouth to this extent, just as a result of a PR cock-up of their own side's creation, what are they going to do when they lose an election? Nuclear retaliation?
What's happened here is a symptom of where this government is in its life cycle. It still has the levers of power in its hands, but everyone expects them to loosen soon.
A couple of years ago, a quietly menacing phone call would have been the end of the matter. Big Ears dumped in a concrete overcoat at the bottom of the Thames.
But now, the government's placemen at the Beeb can make the noises but the can't carry them out in the same way. Because the government is unpopular and probably on the way out. What makes it worse is that the response is to go louder in the rhetoric to compensate for the ebbing of real power. We've got a long two years ahead of us.
(Oh, and a number of PBers are clearly unhappy at paying towards Lineker's pay via the License Fee. If it would help, I'd be happy to put 4p in a brown envelope for them. Because I'm just a bleeding heart liberal and am saddened by their distress.)
Comments
I think you are rather over-egging that. Even on the BBC, things like Strictly (and in recent past Top Gear) are far more popular and had popular spinoffs worldwide. MOTD is a British thing.
(*) Which may not be the whole story, but the sudden Lineker-fannbois are not interested in figures.
OTOH, "Lessons From History", this phrase, it presumably means doing everything possible to ensure such an unspeakable horror never happens again. Part of this is surely to be alert to echoes of how it got traction in its early days back then. If you can't mention any similarities until they've become VERY similar the chances are it might be a bit late.
I'll think I'll join the fray with a Scotland thread too.
I will use all my expertise on Scotland to make a bold prediction.
My expertise that helped me win lots of money on Scottish politics over the last 15 years such as the SNP winning a majority, No to win, the SNP surge in 2015, the Tory surge in 2017, and that Alba would be all fart and no follow through in 2021.
"One of the many questions raised by Gary and his tweets is while he has been asked to ‘step back’ why is a man who is reported to have donated £400k to the Conservative Party still the chairman of the BBC. I have been asked this many times now.
If perception is important how will the BBC deal with that issue?
I struggled with posting this because I felt fearful to do so. But then realised that this is a legitimate question that would be discussed on my show.
I feel sad that I should feel fearful though. I believe in the BBC passionately but consistency is important."
What's the difference between biased and opinion?
All political opinions are, by their nature, biased.
The next Tory government needs to abolish it
I was expecting a dire sporting Saturday, England are going to get humped by the French today, to cap of a week of national humiliation for England and the UK.
It’s a management / discipline thing, not about politics.
The ones I am mainly interested in are transport authorities, which mainly means Counties and Unitaries.
Thanks
Italian
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/financial-stability/resolution
Rebekka Martinson: Arctic Murders was watchable if only for the quite mesmerically gorgeous Sascha Zacharias in the second series...
That doesn't make it right: but hearing people on hear screech about this (when Lineker is IMIO bang to rights) and blaming the government, whilst ignoring past precedence, is hilarious.
Yet its 'star' gets the highest BBC performer's salary.
See Andrew Neil, Sugar, Clarkson, Karen Brady, etc., etc.
And his colleagues agreed.
So. If it is about management, then it's spectacularly incompetent management.
Opinion = Party approved, including "officially disapproved but yes of course between you and me we really agree" viewpoint.
Biassed = everything else.
How much of that is people just scrubbing through to see the highlights of their team (rather than the whole show), that would be interesting to know. I would guess its a substantial amount of the catchup viewers.
1) It ridiculously compares the Conservatives to Nazis.
2) It ignores that there's an issue here; one that many people care strongly about (in whichever direction).
for 2); if he's against the government proposal, what's his alternative?
When it comes to live world cup matches, normally you don't have a choice over the tv station covering it, and when you do, ITV are bloody terrible.
Edit: he's been doing this 20 years.
Channels are so archaic. Its time we gave up on them altogether.
That's why his colleagues across the board are sat at home
There is a market - it’s rather silo’d to various sports and nations - but it does exist.
What are the 'colleagues' pay?
https://deadline.com/2021/07/euro-2020-final-ratings-england-italy-1234790535/amp/
And
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9754321/amp/Euro-2020-Englands-win-Ukraine-watched-live-TV-event-year-20-9m-viewers.html
Say you'd have no restrictions on entry to the UK by those in Calais - and see how your social media presence copes with that shit storm.
It need to be retained, revitalised, and given explicit license to be both the extremely bold and traditional force as it was before it adopted a more commercial ethos.
And painting this as a left:right issue is utter BS as well. There are plenty of right of centre people making clear they think the BBC is wrong on this.
As for 1). Not arguing that point. It is an opinion. One you are free to disagree with.
If the question of what his salary is and who pays it is in the slightest relevant then that is a very slippery slope indeed.
Inconsistency is the big problem here. Some get away with all sorts, not just overpaid sports or car show presenters, but parts of the news output, other people at the BBC have got canned for some minor offense caused.
Surely a joke. Indeed I think this is a joke
It's of no relevance to me or to the matter at hand.
Several commentators presaging it by reference to the fact they are employees.
To be serious though: if the 'stars' of a TV show that is not in the top-50 shows on TV, or in the top 30 BBC programs, get the highest salary, you have to ask why.
Enough. Kill it off
I think we can guess why.
When broadcast it normally gets just over 3 million viewers, which is the highest rated programme at 10:30 or later all week.
And many of the list, say, Coronation Street, Eastenders, the Chase or BBC News, has many, many more viewers.
I'd also disagree that 'personalities' sells TV news. But if you are right, then it's an argument against what Lineker said.
It's an interesting topic.
But sod all to do with Lineker, the BBC and the government.
*setting a news agenda that is based on the assumption that a certain perspective is objectively correct and attacking any deviation from that agenda
*soft-soaping ministers who are actually responsible for stuff and then going at their shadows, who aren't, like a rabid dog
*stacking news discussion programmes with think tank Tory shills and not telling the viewer who they are rather claiming them to be some kind of authority on the matter at hand
If they want to join you in drawing the curtains and flicking between GB News and Babestation, responding equivalently to the content of both, that's up to them.
This situation is not of the Government's making. It is because BBC management are shite. Simple as that.
They have been shite for decades. They COULD have been the ultimate media brand, worldwide. Instead, they sat on their hands, comfortable in the knowledge that everyone in the UK with a telly would pay them their poll tax, whether they watched their output or not. Fat, stupid and lazy, the ever-diminshing BBC is the whirlwind they are reaping.
They are the Woolworths of the media.
But as it happens, I was responding to the question: "Why is it so vitally important to you what everyone is paid?"
The more someone gets paid, the greater the chances of corruption - because the rewards are greater. If someone gets paid a million pounds for something which only one man and his dog watches, then it's reasonable to ask why. Opaqueness and clarity matter, especially when someone has real power and influence - as Lineker is showing he has through this very story.
(As it happens, I believe football is institutionally corrupt, from top to bottom,. But that's a whole different argument.)
Sports getting all political ultimately played a role in exposing the vileness of apartheid and then ending it.
He just sounds like a lefty blowhard when he offers no alternative. As with the Labour Party. They are the Andy Pipkin of modern political discourse: "I don't like it."
Well, what the fuck DO you like? Give us a clue...
I can't wait for the Labour government to sort this out
The reality is Lineker issue aside, the BBC has a big long term problem. The telly tax isn't enforceable or justifiable in the age of streaming and 9 million channels, and the industry is quickly being globalised by the likes of Netflix and Disney who are willing to pay massive amounts for content (Luther another popular BBC show, only ever 20 episodes made, now Netflix making movies out of the franchise). The question is how do they move forward, so far it has basically been stick head in sand, object to any change to the status quo.
You know it has a huge reach. Which is why you are squealing so hard that it's not fair.
Lineker is popular but the dinghy people are not. At all
I imagine most people are looking on in complete bemusement and the whole thing will be a wash. It’s too confusing and weird
However the Tories will not forget and one day the right will return to power and then the BBC is doomed
I shall retire to ConHome.
A couple of years ago, a quietly menacing phone call would have been the end of the matter. Big Ears dumped in a concrete overcoat at the bottom of the Thames.
But now, the government's placemen at the Beeb can make the noises but the can't carry them out in the same way. Because the government is unpopular and probably on the way out. What makes it worse is that the response is to go louder in the rhetoric to compensate for the ebbing of real power. We've got a long two years ahead of us.
(Oh, and a number of PBers are clearly unhappy at paying towards Lineker's pay via the License Fee. If it would help, I'd be happy to put 4p in a brown envelope for them. Because I'm just a bleeding heart liberal and am saddened by their distress.)