Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The big MidTerms loser – one Donald Trump – politicalbetting.com

123468

Comments

  • Sandpit said:

    Apparently Russian state media now reporting that the order to retreat from the right bank of the Dnipro has been given. A degree of scepticism and nervousness on Ukraine War twitter as to whether this is a ruse of some sort.

    There’s a Ukranian suspicion that this is a massive reverse Trojan horse, that there’s hundreds of booby-trapped locations and thousands of soldiers hiding in the city, waiting for the Ukranians to come back to try and take over. It’s not impossible that the plan is to nuke the city, or flood it by blowing the dam upstream of the river.
    It could be, but the story of the war so far has been smart Ukraine and dumb Russia, so I think if it is a trap, the U's will smell it out.

    On the face of it though, looks like a big defeat for the bad guys.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Of, I can't do sums. They're would have to be 100k mail and drop ballots outstanding for the Dem to win in Nevada.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited November 2022
    Alistair said:

    Lol, NBC think there are 211,000 votes outstanding in Nevada.

    I..... I am sceptical.

    NYT estimate of votes remaining to be counted in Nevada is slightly higher.

    What exactly are your grounds for skepticism?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Sandpit said:

    Apparently Russian state media now reporting that the order to retreat from the right bank of the Dnipro has been given. A degree of scepticism and nervousness on Ukraine War twitter as to whether this is a ruse of some sort.

    There’s a Ukranian suspicion that this is a massive reverse Trojan horse, that there’s hundreds of booby-trapped locations and thousands of soldiers hiding in the city, waiting for the Ukranians to come back to try and take over. It’s not impossible that the plan is to nuke the city, or flood it by blowing the dam upstream of the river.
    Yes. Who would trust the Russians?

    Still, there are other signs that the play might be to create a shorter, more defensible, front line by abandoning the right bank and then call for peace talks in an attempt to hold on to what they have left. If that is the strategy then there would be no trap.
    If Russia abandons the right bank then Ukraine can strip its forces bare and move them to other fronts.
  • Carnyx said:

    The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not solve existing tensions (which remain unresolved in the courts) between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (“the EqA”), writes barrister Amanda Jones.

    The bill will introduce new conflicts with the EqA. The bill will also create a tangle of conflicts and anomalies between Scotland and the rest of the UK:

    1. The EqA itself is a reserved matter; it cannot be amended or replaced by Scottish legislation;
    2. The lawful sex of a person will be different in different parts of the UK; a person’s legal change of sex in Scotland will not be recognised in England, Wales or Northern Ireland;
    3. A Scottish GRC will be inferior to a UK one. People might well need to obtain both;
    4. The proposed amendments do not solve the above issues.

    Instead of clarifying the law, the bill will create constitutional and legal complications that will not benefit trans people, and which will inevitably generate litigation.


    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

    Hardly new. The various constituents of the UK were quite happy to legalise matters relating to (say) homosexuality, or civil partnerships, at different times, some in advance of others.
    Yes. Notably, homosexuality was legalised later in Scotland.
    Under Maggie, of course.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    Carnyx said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    The woman isn't pregnant after birth.
    Arguably she would be if she were a kangaroo - but then she wouldn't be a woman anyway.
    Speciest.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,478
    Roger said:

    OT. I thought PMQ's were interesting. I'm not sure that attacks on Sunak's wealth are a good idea. It suggested a thought out attack line which under the circumstances seemed unnecessary.

    Starmer's got so much material using things Sunak's screwed up on he doesn't need to go after the personal stuff. I also think the kind of voters who might be impressed by this line of attack are ones that I'm hoping Labour can live without.

    Red Wall Brexiteers.

    SKS, while not married to a billionaire, is not going to be short of a penny after his career. I assume DPP is well paid, with a good pension etc. To the man/woman on the street he is part of the wealthy elite too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    Scott_xP said:

    Whiny twat

    Mass postal voting before polling day changes election results.
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1590367481331613697

    They're still valid votes Nigel you censored.
  • .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444

    Very impressive and hard fought victory for Ukraine. The big question now is whether Russia can withdraw without taking heavy equipment and personnel losses. Ukraine has every incentive to make this withdrawal as chaotic and costly as possible.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1590364844053925888

    In order from least chaotic to most chaotic I'd currently rank the Russian withdrawals as:
    Lyman
    Kherson (from first line of defence towards Kryvyi Rih)
    Kyiv
    Izyum
    Thus far, looks like the Russians have prepared for this withdrawal well, so it might come quite high on that list.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,011
    From the Washington Post: "According to our model, Cortez Masto is behind in the vote count, but slightly favored to win after all votes are counted. Laxalt still has a chance."

    (As I understand it, the Post uses a sample of "representative" precincts to make these predictions. I have seen no data on their accuracy. But at least their models are testable.)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717

    Oh. The retreat from Kherson really is official. A major victory for Ukraine.

    Apparently Putin personally overruled a withdrawal a couple of months ago so it's a big blow to Russia.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1590367167421157377
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,386

    Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co., the world’s largest contract chip maker, is preparing another multibillion-dollar factory investment in Arizona, people familiar with the plans said.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/chip-making-juggernaut-tsmc-eyes-multibillion-dollar-arizona-factory-expansion-11667973859

    Geography teaching in Taiwanese schools must be pretty poor. Arizona is a hot and dusty desert, not the obvious place to make chips. They will need to spend a fortune on cooling and air filtration. How much is Uncle Sam paying?
    The air filtration is down to the molecular level anyway. The starting point makes little difference.

    Similar for the climate control.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,011
    One would expect the Russians to get better at retreating, given all the practice they have been getting, recently.
  • kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    Whilst I agree with Jonathan's assessment of Sunak and your's, I am not sure there is any causal link between the two. We have plenty of examples of party leaders in the past who were extremely good at the PMQs event but failed to make any impact with the electorate - one good example being Hague. Sunak's fate rests not with his abilities at the dispatch box but with his ability to deal with the many crisis facing this country, at least some of which are due to his own actions.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,386
    Scott_xP said:

    Whiny twat

    Mass postal voting before polling day changes election results.
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1590367481331613697

    People voting changes the results of elections. Terrible, isn't it?

    Can we have 2 week elections in the Georgian style, please? Complete with the candidates bribing the electorate with hogsheads of gin?
  • kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    How much hand-to-hand combat politics has Rishi ever done?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Apparently Russian state media now reporting that the order to retreat from the right bank of the Dnipro has been given. A degree of scepticism and nervousness on Ukraine War twitter as to whether this is a ruse of some sort.

    There’s a Ukranian suspicion that this is a massive reverse Trojan horse, that there’s hundreds of booby-trapped locations and thousands of soldiers hiding in the city, waiting for the Ukranians to come back to try and take over. It’s not impossible that the plan is to nuke the city, or flood it by blowing the dam upstream of the river.
    Yes. Who would trust the Russians?

    Still, there are other signs that the play might be to create a shorter, more defensible, front line by abandoning the right bank and then call for peace talks in an attempt to hold on to what they have left. If that is the strategy then there would be no trap.
    If Russia abandons the right bank then Ukraine can strip its forces bare and move them to other fronts.
    Yes. Still a relative improvement for Russia to shorten the front at this stage, because they're largely on the defensive.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,889

    Carnyx said:

    The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not solve existing tensions (which remain unresolved in the courts) between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (“the EqA”), writes barrister Amanda Jones.

    The bill will introduce new conflicts with the EqA. The bill will also create a tangle of conflicts and anomalies between Scotland and the rest of the UK:

    1. The EqA itself is a reserved matter; it cannot be amended or replaced by Scottish legislation;
    2. The lawful sex of a person will be different in different parts of the UK; a person’s legal change of sex in Scotland will not be recognised in England, Wales or Northern Ireland;
    3. A Scottish GRC will be inferior to a UK one. People might well need to obtain both;
    4. The proposed amendments do not solve the above issues.

    Instead of clarifying the law, the bill will create constitutional and legal complications that will not benefit trans people, and which will inevitably generate litigation.


    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

    Hardly new. The various constituents of the UK were quite happy to legalise matters relating to (say) homosexuality, or civil partnerships, at different times, some in advance of others.
    Yes. Notably, homosexuality was legalised later in Scotland.
    Quite. So odd for supporters of HMG UKG (in this case an 'English' government for practical purposes) to complain about it being the other way round, so to speak, at the moment.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    Given the utter reliance of modern economies on advanced chip manufacturing it's completely sensible.
    From the POV of strategic resilience, it's as important as military spending - and of far greater economic benefit.

    Ditto energy spending.

    I only wish UK governments had as much foresight a decade ago.

    I don't disagree with the intent, but I am skeptical that it will prove to be of good value for tax payers.
    We'll have to agree to disagree.
    I think quite a lot of it is essential investment if the US wishes to remain the world's leading economy.
    Quite a lot of this stuff (another example is a modernised nationwide electric grid) the private sector either wasn't doing, or was doing far too slowly.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,011
    Depends on which parts of Arizona you're talking about: "Southern Arizona is known for its desert climate, with very hot summers and mild winters. Northern Arizona features forests of pine, Douglas fir, and spruce trees; the Colorado Plateau; mountain ranges (such as the San Francisco Mountains); as well as large, deep canyons, with much more moderate summer temperatures and significant winter snowfalls. There are ski resorts in the areas of Flagstaff, Alpine, and Tucson. In addition to the internationally known Grand Canyon National Park, which is one of the world's seven natural wonders, there are several national forests, national parks, and national monuments."
    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    Trump is indeed furious this morning, particularly about Mehmet Oz, and is blaming everyone who advised him to back Oz -- including his wife, describing it as not her best decision, according to people close to him.

    There are people pushing Trump to reschedule his announcement next week, and several Rs have texted asking whether he will, but it’s risky and would be acknowledging he’s wounded by yesterday, something that some of his advisers insist is not the case

    Worth remembering that Trump is a grown man who endorsed Oz over the objection of some of the people closest to him, and instead went beyond just endorsing and attacked Dave McCormick from the stage at a rally.


    https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1590374092603281411
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    After another PMQs pummelling by Keir Starmer, Rishi Sunak's weakness is...his weakness.

    My take on today's exchanges:

    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/after-another-pmqs-pummelling-by-keir-starmer-rishi-sunaks-regrets-make-him-look-like-a-weak-leader-1961694

    It's bad to be accused of weakness at PMQs.

    It's worse when the accusation comes from Boring Old Starmer. (Who has more toughness than you might think on first glance, and has efficiently dispatched the Loony Left. But "strong leader" isn't the first thing you think.)

    It's worst of all that it's true.
    💥Keir Starmer destroys Rishi Sunak at #PMQs while a backbencher shouts "bring the lettuce back!"

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1590322958484254727/video/1
    There seemed to be mixed views here earlier as to who won PMQs.

    Thanks to this tweet, I conclude that Sunak won.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    "the red wave has begun!" — Lauren Boebert, yesterday
    "you want fries with that?" — Lauren Boebert, tomorrow

    https://twitter.com/itsJeffTiedrich/status/1590364982730199041
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited November 2022

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    NEW — ⁦@RepJimBanks⁩’s team is abt to send this Dear Colleague letter.

    “I am running to be the majority whip.”

    So begins the post-election leadership jockeying … ->

    https://twitter.com/rachaelmbade/status/1590375285920145408/photo/1
  • kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    How much hand-to-hand combat politics has Rishi ever done?
    I think this is a key point. Rishi is politically inexperienced for a PM, despite having been catapulted into the Chancellorship. Admittedly Starmer is also inexperienced, but he's had longer as leader to learn.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236

    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    How much hand-to-hand combat politics has Rishi ever done?
    Quite. His high profile since Covid flatters to deceive - he's a very young and inexperienced politician.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,478

    One would expect the Russians to get better at retreating, given all the practice they have been getting, recently.

    Finally all those phone calls with Macron make sense.
    Do Russians also eat cheese?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    edited November 2022
    Main takeaway: Biden had a great night in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kherson Oblast, and Michigan
    https://twitter.com/WaltHickey/status/1590375055028002819

    Correspondingly bad night for Putin.

    Who's next to cop the blame in the Kremlin ?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    edited November 2022
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
    I agree with Bart on that position. I trust the pregnant woman to make the right choice for the circumstance she finds herself in. I'm confident that they're only going to choose abortion at a late stage because of regrettable and extreme medical circumstances, and I think it's best to leave that choice with them, rather than to add to their difficulties at such a time.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    Nigelb said:

    Main takeaway: Biden had a great night in Ohio, Pennsylvania, Kherson Oblast, and Michigan
    https://twitter.com/WaltHickey/status/1590375055028002819

    Correspondingly bad night for Putin.

    All in all this has been a good day for the “Joe Biden is low-key quite an effective US president” narrative

    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1590362358689705984
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    Gavin Williamson is still causing problems for Rishi Sunak 👇

    ✍️ Isabel Hardman

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/gavin-williamson-is-still-causing-problems-for-rishi-sunak/
  • One would expect the Russians to get better at retreating, given all the practice they have been getting, recently.

    Finally all those phone calls with Macron make sense.
    Naughty, William, but funny, so you are forgiven.

    At least you didn't allude to Italian tanks with their four reverse gears which of course would be very handy for the Russians now. :wink:
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not solve existing tensions (which remain unresolved in the courts) between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (“the EqA”), writes barrister Amanda Jones.

    The bill will introduce new conflicts with the EqA. The bill will also create a tangle of conflicts and anomalies between Scotland and the rest of the UK:

    1. The EqA itself is a reserved matter; it cannot be amended or replaced by Scottish legislation;
    2. The lawful sex of a person will be different in different parts of the UK; a person’s legal change of sex in Scotland will not be recognised in England, Wales or Northern Ireland;
    3. A Scottish GRC will be inferior to a UK one. People might well need to obtain both;
    4. The proposed amendments do not solve the above issues.

    Instead of clarifying the law, the bill will create constitutional and legal complications that will not benefit trans people, and which will inevitably generate litigation.


    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

    Hardly new. The various constituents of the UK were quite happy to legalise matters relating to (say) homosexuality, or civil partnerships, at different times, some in advance of others.
    Yes. Notably, homosexuality was legalised later in Scotland.
    Quite. So odd for supporters of HMG UKG (in this case an 'English' government for practical purposes) to complain about it being the other way round, so to speak, at the moment.
    The problem is the very poorly thought through GRA currently making its way through Holyrood - the Scottish Government has been in the courts again today trying to defend the mess they’re making.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1590338107500826625.html
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,489
    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    edited November 2022

    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    Whilst I agree with Jonathan's assessment of Sunak and your's, I am not sure there is any causal link between the two. We have plenty of examples of party leaders in the past who were extremely good at the PMQs event but failed to make any impact with the electorate - one good example being Hague. Sunak's fate rests not with his abilities at the dispatch box but with his ability to deal with the many crisis facing this country, at least some of which are due to his own actions.
    Ah yes, I agree. I wasn't thinking just or mainly about PMQs. More about the whole package. He's ok - and will be miles better at the job than the 2 prior occupants - but he doesn't (to me) display any USPs or indeed any particular strengths as a politician. I did rate his comms skills but they somehow seem a bit light now he's PM. Also I was tentatively going along with "good bloke" and "integrity" and "principled" but Braverman, Williamson, and the COP27 shuffle has put paid to that. Finally I'd be up for some firm ideology on sound money whilst protecting the poor but nope, I sense all the old fudges and hitting soft targets and pandering to core votes and vested interests coming along to a Fiscal Event near us soon. So, all in all, just a bit Meh.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    edited November 2022
    "At least you didn't allude to Italian tanks with their four reverse gears which of course would be very handy for the Russians now."

    Dont forget the forward gear, in case they're attacked from behind.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    "The retreat was announced shortly after Russian media said the deputy leader of Kherson, Kirill Stremousov, had been killed in a car crash."

    Did his car crash through a 4th floor window?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
    I agree with Bart on that position. I trust the pregnant woman to make the right choice for the circumstance she finds herself in. I'm confident that they're only going to choose abortion at a late stage because of regrettable and extreme medical circumstances, and I think it's best to leave that choice with them, rather than to add to their difficulties at such a time.
    Is there anywhere in the world that allows it currently?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    I’m told Trump in a terrible mood today, throwing regular tantrums at all and sundry, as Republicans round on the terrible performances of the dodgy candidates he backed, concluding Trump’s time has come and gone, while mainstream Republicans he denigrated did well.
    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1590378464560828417
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
  • kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    How much hand-to-hand combat politics has Rishi ever done?
    I think this is a key point. Rishi is politically inexperienced for a PM, despite having been catapulted into the Chancellorship. Admittedly Starmer is also inexperienced, but he's had longer as leader to learn.
    Starmer wasn't that hot as LotO to start with. Forensic at picking the right issues, but not great at getting far with them. He's got more political, less lawyerly, and it shows.

    No doubt Sunak will improve, but that's harder in government than in opposition, because there's so much more going on. And he's very undercooked; no GE campaign in a hopeless seat, no spell as Councillor Sunak. It's a tough job to learn on the job.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Apparently Russian state media now reporting that the order to retreat from the right bank of the Dnipro has been given. A degree of scepticism and nervousness on Ukraine War twitter as to whether this is a ruse of some sort.

    There’s a Ukranian suspicion that this is a massive reverse Trojan horse, that there’s hundreds of booby-trapped locations and thousands of soldiers hiding in the city, waiting for the Ukranians to come back to try and take over. It’s not impossible that the plan is to nuke the city, or flood it by blowing the dam upstream of the river.
    Yes. Who would trust the Russians?

    Still, there are other signs that the play might be to create a shorter, more defensible, front line by abandoning the right bank and then call for peace talks in an attempt to hold on to what they have left. If that is the strategy then there would be no trap.
    If Russia abandons the right bank then Ukraine can strip its forces bare and move them to other fronts.
    Yes, it’s a massive win for Ukraine to get the enemy over the river. Defending the river is relatively easy, compared to the tens of thousands of troops required to stop the Russians running all the way to Poland.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751


    No doubt Sunak will improve ...

    Didn't they say that about Liz Truss?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,838
    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    The fortieth trimester would be when the child is 12 and a third. This strikes me as rather late for an abortion, though I'm sure some would disagree.
  • malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Ex-Tory, if you don't mind!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    How much hand-to-hand combat politics has Rishi ever done?
    I think this is a key point. Rishi is politically inexperienced for a PM, despite having been catapulted into the Chancellorship. Admittedly Starmer is also inexperienced, but he's had longer as leader to learn.
    YOU could have just said he is another "Duffer" promoted beyond his competence level.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    The fortieth trimester would be when the child is 12 and a third. This strikes me as rather late for an abortion, though I'm sure some would disagree.
    It's a South Park joke.
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    Alistair said:

    I can't do sums ....

    Work in the Treasury then ?? .... :wink:

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,889

    Carnyx said:

    The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not solve existing tensions (which remain unresolved in the courts) between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (“the EqA”), writes barrister Amanda Jones.

    The bill will introduce new conflicts with the EqA. The bill will also create a tangle of conflicts and anomalies between Scotland and the rest of the UK:

    1. The EqA itself is a reserved matter; it cannot be amended or replaced by Scottish legislation;
    2. The lawful sex of a person will be different in different parts of the UK; a person’s legal change of sex in Scotland will not be recognised in England, Wales or Northern Ireland;
    3. A Scottish GRC will be inferior to a UK one. People might well need to obtain both;
    4. The proposed amendments do not solve the above issues.

    Instead of clarifying the law, the bill will create constitutional and legal complications that will not benefit trans people, and which will inevitably generate litigation.


    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

    Hardly new. The various constituents of the UK were quite happy to legalise matters relating to (say) homosexuality, or civil partnerships, at different times, some in advance of others.
    Yes. Notably, homosexuality was legalised later in Scotland.
    But caught up later - gay marriage was only a few months apart.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
    I agree with Bart on that position. I trust the pregnant woman to make the right choice for the circumstance she finds herself in. I'm confident that they're only going to choose abortion at a late stage because of regrettable and extreme medical circumstances, and I think it's best to leave that choice with them, rather than to add to their difficulties at such a time.
    Is there anywhere in the world that allows it currently?
    The position in the UK is not all that far off. Although there's a time limit, there's an exception for a number of relevant medical situations.

    It might be one of those situations a bit like "defund the police", or "climate reparations", where you can effectively implement the desired policy, in a lot more than 99.9% of cases, but with something that doesn't quite match the principle, but is a lot easier to get people to agree to - i.e. a time limit combined with exceptions for relevant medical circumstances.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
    It’s interesting watch Starmer systematically insert and test specific words and phrases. This week ‘Weak was the anchor and it stuck. The gags are good. He’s clearly very well supported at PMQs. There’s a professional operation at Labour now. They were instrumental in the day of chaos that finished Truss. It’s refreshing.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Whiny twat

    Mass postal voting before polling day changes election results.
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1590367481331613697

    They're still valid votes Nigel you censored.
    It's a daft thing to say, because it may just be that, predominantly, people who would have voted anyway just vote at a different time.

    Hardly surprising that a concept so simple should be beyond Farage, though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    Who is going to carry a baby for 38 weeks and then decide they need an abortion unless they have a very good reason for it?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    The fortieth trimester would be when the child is 12 and a third. This strikes me as rather late for an abortion, though I'm sure some would disagree.
    Why would anyone who’s ever lived with a 12-year-old, not agree that 40 trimesters should be be abortion limit?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,525
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    deleted. nonsense

    You.are spot on. Cortez looks certain to lose. She drank her blue juice early and doesn’t have enough left.
    The Senate likely to remain all square but with a chance of Republicans winning it outright in December.
    From here the Democrats cannot win the Senate outright, but a tie suits them with the VP casting vote.

    (This of course ignores the detail Democrats will finish this election with no more than 48 Senators).
    She's not "certain to lose".
    The opposite if anything per the betting.
    But in your heart, with what’s at stake boiled down on this one, do you want to bet against the betting on this one? I’m very confident she has lost in my reading of it and 50/50 senate it will remain.
    I don't want to, no, but you should by the sounds of it. You can get at least 4 on her losing. I've put an imaginary £50 on for you. If it pays off please remember to ask me for it. If you forget I'll just end up spending it.
    I have lost a bit of money on horses this last month already, particularly on track at Cheltenham, but I have already bought lots of nice things as Christmas Presents when out shopping, so why not. So Forget the imaginary money, I’ve placed a bet on Cortez losing, to put the money where my confident published punditry is seems only right.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Ex-Tory, if you don't mind!
    Hopefully NOT to Labour
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Ex-Tory, if you don't mind!
    Hopefully NOT to Labour
    I do have SOME standards...
  • malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Of course it’s always funny to remember that a majority of Tory MPs and MSPs voted against gay marriage much more recently when they and their fanbois start bleating about being a ‘progressive’ party.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,489
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
    It’s interesting watch Starmer systematically insert and test specific words and phrases. This week ‘Weak was the anchor and it stuck. The gags are good. He’s clearly very well supported at PMQs. There’s a professional operation at Labour now. They were instrumental in the day of chaos that finished Truss. It’s refreshing.
    Royale is actually entertaining now, Sunak just looks lost – and the weekly bluster about But-Corbyn is utterly pathetic.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited November 2022

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    Who is going to carry a baby for 38 weeks and then decide they need an abortion unless they have a very good reason for it?
    Someone who just split up with their boyfriend, and is in a terrible emotional state?

    The American discussion of these things, is only ever about the edgiest of edge cases.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    .

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
    I agree with Bart on that position. I trust the pregnant woman to make the right choice for the circumstance she finds herself in. I'm confident that they're only going to choose abortion at a late stage because of regrettable and extreme medical circumstances, and I think it's best to leave that choice with them, rather than to add to their difficulties at such a time.
    Is there anywhere in the world that allows it currently?
    The position in the UK is not all that far off. Although there's a time limit, there's an exception for a number of relevant medical situations.

    It might be one of those situations a bit like "defund the police", or "climate reparations", where you can effectively implement the desired policy, in a lot more than 99.9% of cases, but with something that doesn't quite match the principle, but is a lot easier to get people to agree to - i.e. a time limit combined with exceptions for relevant medical circumstances.
    Right. But AIUI Bartholomew doesn't want "exceptions for relevant medical circumstances", he wants no-questions-asked abortion on demand right up until birth.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,838
    edited November 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    The fortieth trimester would be when the child is 12 and a third. This strikes me as rather late for an abortion, though I'm sure some would disagree.
    It's a South Park joke.
    Ah, I see. I thought Bart had hastily typed trimester when he meant week. My mild wit falls flat. Sorry.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,525
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Whiny twat

    Mass postal voting before polling day changes election results.
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1590367481331613697

    They're still valid votes Nigel you censored.
    It's a daft thing to say, because it may just be that, predominantly, people who would have voted anyway just vote at a different time.

    Hardly surprising that a concept so simple should be beyond Farage, though.
    It’s right for healthy democracy to get the number of people voting up.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,489
    PLEASE NOT THE ABORTION DEBATE AGAIN
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,525

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Ex-Tory, if you don't mind!
    Hopefully NOT to Labour
    I do have SOME standards...
    Very much the right standards right now.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,234

    From the Washington Post: "According to our model, Cortez Masto is behind in the vote count, but slightly favored to win after all votes are counted. Laxalt still has a chance."

    (As I understand it, the Post uses a sample of "representative" precincts to make these predictions. I have seen no data on their accuracy. But at least their models are testable.)

    Nevada will be extremely close, and I would probably have Laxalt as very slight favourite.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    kinabalu said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    Early days but my impression is he is not going to prove a formidable obstacle to a Labour majority.
    How much hand-to-hand combat politics has Rishi ever done?
    I think this is a key point. Rishi is politically inexperienced for a PM, despite having been catapulted into the Chancellorship. Admittedly Starmer is also inexperienced, but he's had longer as leader to learn.
    Starmer wasn't that hot as LotO to start with. Forensic at picking the right issues, but not great at getting far with them. He's got more political, less lawyerly, and it shows.

    No doubt Sunak will improve, but that's harder in government than in opposition, because there's so much more going on. And he's very undercooked; no GE campaign in a hopeless seat, no spell as Councillor Sunak. It's a tough job to learn on the job.
    Ministerial office as practiced these days is a poor training for no10, certainly compared to LoO.

    LoO is hugely exposed, the buck stops with you and there is no hiding from failure. There is no civil service to support you, so you have to work as a team and truly master detail.

    Meanwhile Ministers are increasingly dependent on number10 and do not operate independently. The buck generally stops elsewhere. Even the senior jobs are not what they once were. Add in the fact that Boris couldn’t tolerate genuine rivals, you end up with a load of undercooked ministers reliant on his patronage In senior positions. Sunak has found himself in no10 about ten years too soon.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Of course it’s always funny to remember that a majority of Tory MPs and MSPs voted against gay marriage much more recently when they and their fanbois start bleating about being a ‘progressive’ party.
    Why on earth should a Conservative Party be Progressive? Economic and social liberalism may be the consensus now in the UK on the whole but of course there will be social conservatives in the Conservative Party opposed to social liberalism just as there will be socialists in the Labour Party opposed to capitalism and economic liberalism
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,444
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    Who is going to carry a baby for 38 weeks and then decide they need an abortion unless they have a very good reason for it?
    Someone who just split up with their boyfriend, and is in a terrible emotional state?

    The American discussion of these things, is only ever about the edgiest of edge cases.
    I would hope that anyone who was contemplating elective surgery, but was in a distressed emotional state and not in the best frame of mind to be making decisions, would receive the appropriate mental health support so that they could make a decision in a calmer state.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Chris said:


    No doubt Sunak will improve ...

    Didn't they say that about Liz Truss?
    To be fair.
    She's improved exponentially over the past 2 or 3 weeks.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,003
    I've called on @RishiSunak to urgently correct the record after he "inadvertently misled" the House during #PMQs by saying he'd only heard of allegations against Gavin Williamson yesterday. A former Tory Chair states he informed the PM well in advance about bullying allegations. https://twitter.com/KevinBrennanMP/status/1590372436595601409/video/1
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not solve existing tensions (which remain unresolved in the courts) between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (“the EqA”), writes barrister Amanda Jones.

    The bill will introduce new conflicts with the EqA. The bill will also create a tangle of conflicts and anomalies between Scotland and the rest of the UK:

    1. The EqA itself is a reserved matter; it cannot be amended or replaced by Scottish legislation;
    2. The lawful sex of a person will be different in different parts of the UK; a person’s legal change of sex in Scotland will not be recognised in England, Wales or Northern Ireland;
    3. A Scottish GRC will be inferior to a UK one. People might well need to obtain both;
    4. The proposed amendments do not solve the above issues.

    Instead of clarifying the law, the bill will create constitutional and legal complications that will not benefit trans people, and which will inevitably generate litigation.


    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

    Hardly new. The various constituents of the UK were quite happy to legalise matters relating to (say) homosexuality, or civil partnerships, at different times, some in advance of others.
    Yes. Notably, homosexuality was legalised later in Scotland.
    But caught up later - gay marriage was only a few months apart.
    More Roman Catholics and Protestant evangelicals in Scotland than England percentage wise
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Carnyx said:

    The Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill does not solve existing tensions (which remain unresolved in the courts) between the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA) and the Equality Act 2010 (“the EqA”), writes barrister Amanda Jones.

    The bill will introduce new conflicts with the EqA. The bill will also create a tangle of conflicts and anomalies between Scotland and the rest of the UK:

    1. The EqA itself is a reserved matter; it cannot be amended or replaced by Scottish legislation;
    2. The lawful sex of a person will be different in different parts of the UK; a person’s legal change of sex in Scotland will not be recognised in England, Wales or Northern Ireland;
    3. A Scottish GRC will be inferior to a UK one. People might well need to obtain both;
    4. The proposed amendments do not solve the above issues.

    Instead of clarifying the law, the bill will create constitutional and legal complications that will not benefit trans people, and which will inevitably generate litigation.


    https://www.scottishlegal.com/articles/amanda-jones-gender-recognition-bill-will-complicate-rather-than-clarify-the-law

    Hardly new. The various constituents of the UK were quite happy to legalise matters relating to (say) homosexuality, or civil partnerships, at different times, some in advance of others.
    Yes. Notably, homosexuality was legalised later in Scotland.
    You are aware this was before we had a devolved parliament?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    LOL, even funnier when saddo Tories are reduced to dragging up rubbish from almost 50 years ago.
    Ex-Tory, if you don't mind!
    Hopefully NOT to Labour
    It could be worse Richard could be cheering for Nippy's lot or Eck's ridiculous failed Alba experiment.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,525

    Not a good look for the shadow health Secretary:

    Jeremy Corbyn tries to raise a point of order in the House, after Rishi Sunak mentioned him again during #PMQs.

    Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting can be heard saying "he's gone senile".


    https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1590330644969959424

    If true, he should be sacked for that - unless the leaders weak.
  • kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    OT. I thought PMQ's were interesting. I'm not sure that attacks on Sunak's wealth are a good idea. It suggested a thought out attack line which under the circumstances seemed unnecessary.

    Starmer's got so much material using things Sunak's screwed up on he doesn't need to go after the personal stuff. I also think the kind of voters who might be impressed by this line of attack are ones that I'm hoping Labour can live without.

    Red Wall Brexiteers.

    The impossible dream, Roger. Regaining the "Red Wall" is at the heart of Starmer's path to power. It's all plotted out. Do not offend floating voters generally but above all make sure those seats lost in 2019 come back.
    Roger is probably right about ad hominem attacks on Rishi's wealth. Labour should have learned that similar attacks on posh boy Boris and multi-millionaire smoothiechops Cameron did not further their cause. Voters expect Prime Ministers to be a bit superior.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    Who is going to carry a baby for 38 weeks and then decide they need an abortion unless they have a very good reason for it?
    Someone who just split up with their boyfriend, and is in a terrible emotional state?

    The American discussion of these things, is only ever about the edgiest of edge cases.
    I would hope that anyone who was contemplating elective surgery, but was in a distressed emotional state and not in the best frame of mind to be making decisions, would receive the appropriate mental health support so that they could make a decision in a calmer state.
    Have you seen what the abortion debate looks like in the US? There would be plenty of activists, egging someone on for the late-term abortion that they’d never dare think of for themselves.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
    It’s interesting watch Starmer systematically insert and test specific words and phrases. This week ‘Weak was the anchor and it stuck. The gags are good. He’s clearly very well supported at PMQs. There’s a professional operation at Labour now. They were instrumental in the day of chaos that finished Truss. It’s refreshing.
    You overestimate the role Labour played in disposing of Truss.

    That was a Tory hit job. It needed no help.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That is effectively murder as most scientists and doctors agree a foetus can survive on its own and is fully alive after 22 to 26 weeks, not 40 weeks
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
    I agree with Bart on that position. I trust the pregnant woman to make the right choice for the circumstance she finds herself in. I'm confident that they're only going to choose abortion at a late stage because of regrettable and extreme medical circumstances, and I think it's best to leave that choice with them, rather than to add to their difficulties at such a time.
    I don't totally agree with you (and Bart) about zero controls but I almost do. It's a far more reasonable position than a ban. The abortion debate suffers from a surfeit of "on the one hand, on the other hand" false equivalence and pseudy "it's complex" chinstroking imo.

    Pre Dobbs, American women had a right to an abortion, subject to certain constraints which could vary by state. There was a balance between the competing rights and all pregnant women were catered for. Women who didn't want the baby weren't forced to have it. No woman who did want the baby was forced to abort it.

    It was fine and had been in place for 50 years. Then along comes this softhead "pro life" nonsense and upends it, takes the right away, decides that the rights of the unborn trump those of women unless local politicians are good enough to deem otherwise. Indefensible on every level.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    42+ years ago - you can spin out a generation even longer than HYUFD!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited November 2022

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
    It’s interesting watch Starmer systematically insert and test specific words and phrases. This week ‘Weak was the anchor and it stuck. The gags are good. He’s clearly very well supported at PMQs. There’s a professional operation at Labour now. They were instrumental in the day of chaos that finished Truss. It’s refreshing.
    You overestimate the role Labour played in disposing of Truss.

    That was a Tory hit job. It needed no help.
    Labour chose the motion on fracking with precision. It was very well judged. They deserve real credit for that. I’ve rarely seen Parliament used so effectively.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    OT. I thought PMQ's were interesting. I'm not sure that attacks on Sunak's wealth are a good idea. It suggested a thought out attack line which under the circumstances seemed unnecessary.

    Starmer's got so much material using things Sunak's screwed up on he doesn't need to go after the personal stuff. I also think the kind of voters who might be impressed by this line of attack are ones that I'm hoping Labour can live without.

    Red Wall Brexiteers.

    The impossible dream, Roger. Regaining the "Red Wall" is at the heart of Starmer's path to power. It's all plotted out. Do not offend floating voters generally but above all make sure those seats lost in 2019 come back.
    Roger is probably right about ad hominem attacks on Rishi's wealth. Labour should have learned that similar attacks on posh boy Boris and multi-millionaire smoothiechops Cameron did not further their cause. Voters expect Prime Ministers to be a bit superior.
    Boris is worth just £2 million, Cameron worth £38 million. Neither are super rich ie £100 million + and in Sunak's league given Rishi is worth £730 million with his wife despite their shared elite education

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717
    @elonmusk
    Please note that Twitter will do lots of dumb things in coming months.

    We will keep what works & change what doesn’t.


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1590384919829962752
  • sarissa said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    42+ years ago - you can spin out a generation even longer than HYUFD!
    And yet the anti-Tory commentators still bring up Section 28 from 34 years ago to attack the party today.

    Personally, I think both examples are past their sell by date and should be consigned to history. The parties are very different today.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,386
    edited November 2022

    One would expect the Russians to get better at retreating, given all the practice they have been getting, recently.

    Finally all those phone calls with Macron make sense.
    Naughty, William, but funny, so you are forgiven.

    At least you didn't allude to Italian tanks with their four reverse gears which of course would be very handy for the Russians now. :wink:
    The gearbox used by Alvis for the Saracen/Saladin/Stalwart series of military vehicles used a reversing option on the 6 gears.

    So you can drive a Saracen at 40 mph. Backwards.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    CNN's Winners & Losers list makes for interesting reading. This one in the winning camp should make all of us punters sit up:

    * Simon Rosenberg: Rosenberg, a longtime Democratic strategist, was telling anyone who would listen that the seeming movement to Republicans in the final weeks of the race was misleading – fueled by a series of Republican-sponsored polls that moved polling averages in a more favorable direction for the GOP. He was right. Period.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/11/09/politics/winners-losers-2022-midterm-elections/index.html
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    kinabalu said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    OK, that's a position, but an extremist one. You won't find a lot of support for it.
    I agree with Bart on that position. I trust the pregnant woman to make the right choice for the circumstance she finds herself in. I'm confident that they're only going to choose abortion at a late stage because of regrettable and extreme medical circumstances, and I think it's best to leave that choice with them, rather than to add to their difficulties at such a time.
    I don't totally agree with you (and Bart) about zero controls but I almost do. It's a far more reasonable position than a ban. The abortion debate suffers from a surfeit of "on the one hand, on the other hand" false equivalence and pseudy "it's complex" chinstroking imo.

    Pre Dobbs, American women had a right to an abortion, subject to certain constraints which could vary by state. There was a balance between the competing rights and all pregnant women were catered for. Women who didn't want the baby weren't forced to have it. No woman who did want the baby was forced to abort it.

    It was fine and had been in place for 50 years. Then along comes this softhead "pro life" nonsense and upends it, takes the right away, decides that the rights of the unborn trump those of women unless local politicians are good enough to deem otherwise. Indefensible on every level.
    I think the difficulty in the abortion debate is that the extremists on both sides don't appreciate that (a) a line has to be drawn between where abortion is legal/illegal (either explicitly or subject to exceptions), and that (b) where to draw that line is a political question.

    Drawing the line at conception or at birth is still drawing the line.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,717

    sarissa said:

    .. with cross-party support, with some exceptions:

    The amendment to legalise homosexual acts was moved by Robin Cook MP. While moving it, he stated "The clause bears the names of hon. Members from all three major parties. I regret that the only party represented among Scottish Members of Parliament from which there has been no support for the clause is the Scottish National Party. I am pleased to see both representatives of that party in their place, and I hope to convert them in the remainder of my remarks."[3] When the amendment came to a vote, the SNP's MPs Gordon Wilson and Donald Stewart both voted against the decriminalisation of homosexual acts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Justice_(Scotland)_Act_1980

    It's so funny when the Nats go on about being a 'progessive' party.

    42+ years ago - you can spin out a generation even longer than HYUFD!
    And yet the anti-Tory commentators still bring up Section 28 from 34 years ago to attack the party today.

    Personally, I think both examples are past their sell by date and should be consigned to history. The parties are very different today.
    There could be a "don't ask, don't tell" policy on whether parties/politicians previously adopted socially conservative positions.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
    It’s interesting watch Starmer systematically insert and test specific words and phrases. This week ‘Weak was the anchor and it stuck. The gags are good. He’s clearly very well supported at PMQs. There’s a professional operation at Labour now. They were instrumental in the day of chaos that finished Truss. It’s refreshing.
    You overestimate the role Labour played in disposing of Truss.

    That was a Tory hit job. It needed no help.
    Labour chose the motion on fracking with precision. It was very well judged. They deserve real credit for that. I’ve rarely seen Parliament used so effectively.
    If Bercow had done his job properly, they would never have been able to table such a motion.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Driver said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    It did seem that the media in the USA had a narrative and refused to divert from that .

    The Dem disaster was peddled for weeks and them saying it was all about the economy and that abortion wouldn’t be a big factor .

    The ones who were most guilty of pushing the abortion isn’t a big deal in the mid terms were not surprisingly men !

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by voters and legislators, not by courts. There are a number of defensible and rational views, and it is a conscience matter.

    There may be some evidence that the (IMHO correct) decision of the SC to say it is a matter for voters not courts is having an effect. Good.

    Abortion is a classic case of something which should be decided by the woman who is pregnant.
    Until birth?
    No, until the fortieth trimester.

    Yes, until birth.
    That’s a very extreme view. You’re in favour of 38-week abortions?
    The fortieth trimester would be when the child is 12 and a third. This strikes me as rather late for an abortion, though I'm sure some would disagree.
    At least by that stage it would be possible to get the child's consent.
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    OT. I thought PMQ's were interesting. I'm not sure that attacks on Sunak's wealth are a good idea. It suggested a thought out attack line which under the circumstances seemed unnecessary.

    Starmer's got so much material using things Sunak's screwed up on he doesn't need to go after the personal stuff. I also think the kind of voters who might be impressed by this line of attack are ones that I'm hoping Labour can live without.

    Red Wall Brexiteers.

    The impossible dream, Roger. Regaining the "Red Wall" is at the heart of Starmer's path to power. It's all plotted out. Do not offend floating voters generally but above all make sure those seats lost in 2019 come back.
    Roger is probably right about ad hominem attacks on Rishi's wealth. Labour should have learned that similar attacks on posh boy Boris and multi-millionaire smoothiechops Cameron did not further their cause. Voters expect Prime Ministers to be a bit superior.
    Boris is worth just £2 million, Cameron worth £38 million. Neither are super rich ie £100 million + and in Sunak's league given Rishi is worth £730 million with his wife despite their shared elite education

    Do you think someone worth £2 million or £38 million has to worry about the heating bill or the cost of a pint of milk any more than someone worth £730 million? If the attack has any value at all it is that they are divorced from the realities of daily life on the bread line. Something that applies to all 3 equally but also probably applies just as much to Starmer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Rishi Sunak is surprisingly rubbish at PMQs. It’s almost a cruel sport.

    "if he can't stand up to a cartoon bully with a pet spider"

    That made me actually LOL.
    It’s interesting watch Starmer systematically insert and test specific words and phrases. This week ‘Weak was the anchor and it stuck. The gags are good. He’s clearly very well supported at PMQs. There’s a professional operation at Labour now. They were instrumental in the day of chaos that finished Truss. It’s refreshing.
    You overestimate the role Labour played in disposing of Truss.

    That was a Tory hit job. It needed no help.
    Labour chose the motion on fracking with precision. It was very well judged. They deserve real credit for that. I’ve rarely seen Parliament used so effectively.
    Truss was holed under the waterline before that. She and her Chancellor went full steam ahead through a mine-field. Marked on the charts as "MINE FIELD".

    Fracking has now disappeared off the political agenda. Defused.

    As I said, impact way overestimated.
This discussion has been closed.