You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
I only learnt this the other day but the Archbishop of Canterbury (and indeed also of York) are higher in the Order of Precedence than the Prime Minister
There have always been Bishops in the House of Lords as there have always been hereditary peers, even today.
Prime Ministers though tend to come from the House of Commons now
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
Oh gosh, didn't realize.
If it makes you feel better, I'm an expert on the Holocaust so know a great deal more than most about antisemitism, and I've never heard of that one either.
Probably a bit antiquated. I remember it from one of the Lord Peter Wimsey novels.
Whose Body, presumably? Must admit I don't remember it in there but that must be the one I know least well.
A quick check finds it in Portnoy's Complaint, which is, or at least when I read it as a teenager was not, a historical novel, dating from 1972. But it doesn't seem to be that common now outside historical fiction.
I quite like Roth but having read the wiki summary of the book, it sounds too offal for my liking.
Oh no, I'd forgotten about that ... just as well we aren't having it for dinner.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
Oh gosh, didn't realize.
If it makes you feel better, I'm an expert on the Holocaust so know a great deal more than most about antisemitism, and I've never heard of that one either.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
Oh gosh, didn't realize.
If it makes you feel better, I'm an expert on the Holocaust so know a great deal more than most about antisemitism, and I've never heard of that one either.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
As leaders of the churches most Christians attend in the UK yes.
Most of the other churches in the UK don't have national or global leaders to represent them
They do. But if you don't think Moderators ansd the like don't count, then there is nothing I can do for you.
No they don't, the Pentecostal churches have no global or international leader or head.
The Moderator of the Church of Scotland just presides over the Assembly of the Church of Scotland. He is neither its head nor leader
Who do you think any minister of the kirk is if not a leader? And who do you think the media go to when thjey want a comment re the Kirk's view?
They are not a national leader no, at most they are equivalent to a local branch chairman. So on your logic I am now effectively PM!!!
It's quite a shock to realise he was 72. Somehow he always seemed ageless.
A great actor. Underrated, in fact.
I was sitting at an adjoining table to him and Dawn French at Grouchos They were ENORMOUS. The screen doesn't do them justice. I was sitting with a pleasant female producer who after summoning up the courage asked them for an autograph for her son. Dawn French looked a little nonplussed but he said 'No you can't. We're eating'
I has told her it wasn't a good idea but her son was a Potter fan....
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
Your original point is still bollocks, not least becvause even taken together they represent a minority of active Christians inb the UK, as per the link I posted earlier.
And it is also bollocks anyway. As demonstrated by, for instance, this simple counterexample of this reverend chap giving the Kirk's view to the public in a newspaper. But of course you won't have heard of this event.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
You can’t judge someone’s Christianity by their actions. We are all sinners in the eyes of the Lord
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
As leaders of the churches most Christians attend in the UK yes.
Most of the other churches in the UK don't have national or global leaders to represent them
They do. But if you don't think Moderators ansd the like don't count, then there is nothing I can do for you.
No they don't, the Pentecostal churches have no global or international leader or head.
The Moderator of the Church of Scotland just presides over the Assembly of the Church of Scotland. He is neither its head nor leader
Who do you think any minister of the kirk is if not a leader? And who do you think the media go to when thjey want a comment re the Kirk's view?
They are not a national leader no, at most they are equivalent to a local branch chairman. So on your logic I am now effectively PM!!!
Well, of course, they don't claim to run England. Where they udo have some local congregations, though. But there wasd this incident not a long time ago where this chap Charles Mountbatten-Windsor was proclaimed or something and had to do something about the national Church of Scotland. I'd think he knows a lot more about it than you do.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
As others have said, I think Whose Body? by Dorothy L Sayers. 1930s detective fiction.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
You can’t judge someone’s Christianity by their actions. We are all sinners in the eyes of the Lord
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
You can’t judge someone’s Christianity by their actions. We are all sinners in the eyes of the Lord
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
Since when did the ABofC represent any community across the UK? He doesn't do that, any more than the AB of Westminster does.
When you're in a hole, stop digging. You've made an error. Everyone does it sometimes. No big deal.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
As others have said, I think Whose Body? by Dorothy L Sayers. 1930s detective fiction.
Compare and contrast as they used to say on my 'o' level papers::
Kitty Donaldson @kitty_donaldson NEW: Truss expects her new Chancellor of the Exchequer Jeremy Hunt to commit to carrying out no further U-turns on her economic plans after she already backtracked on two of the measures
John Rentoul @JohnRentoul · 14m Jeremy Hunt is now in a strong position to dictate the terms of the new mini-Budget to Liz Truss
LOL. I don’t think Liz Truss is in a position to “expect” anything now. Hunt is Prime Minister in all but name.
I don't think he'll U-turn on any of the remaining bits of the mini-budget. Instead I expect him to put together a package of some spending cuts (although there's precious little scope for that), some largish offsetting tax rises elsewhere (he'll try to find ones which aren't anti-growth), and putting the target date for getting the deficit down off a couple of years (the 'medium term' becomes rather longer term). It will be a tricky balance, but he's a smart guy and politically very aware.
There hasn't really been a U-turn. We're just heading into the shit in a lower gear than this morning.
It's quite a shock to realise he was 72. Somehow he always seemed ageless.
A great actor. Underrated, in fact.
I was sitting at an adjoining table to him and Dawn French at Grouchos They were ENORMOUS. The screen doesn't do them justice. I was sitting with a pleasant female producer who after summoning up the courage asked them for an autograph for her son. Dawn French looked a little nonplussed but he said 'No you can't. We're eating'
I has told her it wasn't a good idea but her son was a Potter fan....
Not an easy rest of our meal!
I’m surprised you didn’t get chucked out of the Groucho for that, they’re usually pretty strict on bothering the celebs. I once saw someone get told to leave for shouting “You know nothing John Snow” at Kit Harrington repeatedly.
Ah Robbie Coltrane. Such a talented actor. Point is that all we can do in life is try and positively impact on the lives of others Robbie did that, and even managed to reinvent himself to a new generation as Hagrid.
Labour Majority now evens again with Betfair having drifted out to 2.1 earlier today.
Have the Tories come up with a cunning plan though? Hunt is effectively PM now as well as CotE. Truss is little more than a figurehead. Why not keep it that way until the GE?
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
Since when did the ABofC represent any community across the UK? He doesn't do that, any more than the AB of Westminster does.
When you're in a hole, stop digging. You've made an error. Everyone does it sometimes. No big deal.
He leads Christian Anglicans in England and is also ceremonial head of the global Anglican communion. My original point stands, tough.
The Archbishop of Westminster is chief Bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales but it is the Pope who is head of the global Roman Catholic church
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
Oh gosh, didn't realize.
If it makes you feel better, I'm an expert on the Holocaust so know a great deal more than most about antisemitism, and I've never heard of that one either.
I have literally no idea what that means. I asked whether there was anything to see in that photo
Keep it simple for me please
Not sure if you realise that Zelensky is photoshopped in there? You really don't want to believe everything you see on twitter. And nobody disputes the extreme anti semitism of the Azov regiment. What is your point?
Labour Majority now evens again with Betfair having drifted out to 2.1 earlier today.
Have the Tories come up with a cunning plan though. Hunt is effectively PM now as well as CotE. Truss is little more than a figurehead. Why not keep it that waay until the GE?
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
Your original point is still bollocks, not least becvause even taken together they represent a minority of active Christians inb the UK, as per the link I posted earlier.
And it is also bollocks anyway. As demonstrated by, for instance, this simple counterexample of this reverend chap giving the Kirk's view to the public in a newspaper. But of course you won't have heard of this event.
You know even Vicars can speak to the press about the Church of England's position, it does not make them leader of the Church of England any more than the Moderator of the Church of Scotland is
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
As leaders of the churches most Christians attend in the UK yes.
Most of the other churches in the UK don't have national or global leaders to represent them
They do. But if you don't think Moderators ansd the like don't count, then there is nothing I can do for you.
No they don't, the Pentecostal churches have no global or international leader or head.
The Moderator of the Church of Scotland just presides over the Assembly of the Church of Scotland. He is neither its head nor leader
Who do you think any minister of the kirk is if not a leader? And who do you think the media go to when thjey want a comment re the Kirk's view?
They are not a national leader no, at most they are equivalent to a local branch chairman. So on your logic I am now effectively PM!!!
Well, of course, they don't claim to run England. Where they udo have some local congregations, though. But there wasd this incident not a long time ago where this chap Charles Mountbatten-Windsor was proclaimed or something and had to do something about the national Church of Scotland. I'd think he knows a lot more about it than you do.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
Oh gosh, didn't realize.
If it makes you feel better, I'm an expert on the Holocaust so know a great deal more than most about antisemitism, and I've never heard of that one either.
I am baffled as to what your point is. That there are anti-semites and indeed neo-Nazis in Ukraine? I don't think anyone has ever disputed that. Poroshenko himself is an admirer of Stepan Bandera, for example. Just as there are in Poland. Or Sweden. Or Germany. Or here. Aside from genuine nutcases, like Putin, nobody suggests Zelensky is one of them.
What's more concerning is that (a) too many people indulge in whataboutery over it, to cover up the trifling detail that the entire Russian government and armed forces is full-bloodedly fascist and (b) make a load of antisemitic comments themselves on the way, as Dynamo did (and he was very pissed off when I called him out for it).
I wouldn't walk into that trap, if I were you. Caesar's wife applies in your case.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
If while married to her husband she had sex with someone else, she's an adulteress forever. I don't mean to be "fire and brimstone". That is simply what the term means.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
It's quite a shock to realise he was 72. Somehow he always seemed ageless.
A great actor. Underrated, in fact.
I was sitting at an adjoining table to him and Dawn French at Grouchos They were ENORMOUS. The screen doesn't do them justice. I was sitting with a pleasant female producer who after summoning up the courage asked them for an autograph for her son. Dawn French looked a little nonplussed but he said 'No you can't. We're eating'
I has told her it wasn't a good idea but her son was a Potter fan....
Not an easy rest of our meal!
I’m surprised you didn’t get chucked out of the Groucho for that, they’re usually pretty strict on bothering the celebs. I once saw someone get told to leave for shouting “You know nothing John Snow” at Kit Harrington repeatedly.
That's funny! Yes they do have strict rules (no mobile phones!) though most nights there's enough crazy stuff to give guests a story.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
As others have said, I think Whose Body? by Dorothy L Sayers. 1930s detective fiction.
Hmmm....I suspect a very narrow usage then.
Mentioned twice in the novel - and of course the publisher considerably complicated understanding by removing the reference to “circumcision” (so identifiable as a Jew) and replacing it with manicured fingernails, not those of the purported tramp initially identified….
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
But hang on, I thought in your view the entire point of tory governments was to preference the rich over the poor by protecting them from IHT and so on.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
As others have said, I think Whose Body? by Dorothy L Sayers. 1930s detective fiction.
Hmmm....I suspect a very narrow usage then.
Mentioned twice in the novel - and of course the censor considerably complicated understanding by removing the reference to “circumcision” (so identifiable as a Jew) and replacing it with manicured fingernails, not those of the purported tramp initially identified….
On a point of pedantry - the deletion was an explicit comment that the corpse *wasn't* circumcised, so was identifiable as *not* being a Jew.
I've found the use of the word on page 152 of my copy, used twice as you say. I never noticed it as anything significant before, but then, that's the Wimsey book I like least.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
As others have said, I think Whose Body? by Dorothy L Sayers. 1930s detective fiction.
Hmmm....I suspect a very narrow usage then.
Mentioned twice in the novel - and of course the censor considerably complicated understanding by removing the reference to “circumcision” (so identifiable as a Jew) and replacing it with manicured fingernails, not those of the purported tramp initially identified….
On a point of pedantry - the deletion was an explicit comment that the corpse *wasn't* circumcised, so was identifiable as *not* being a Jew.
I've found the use of the word on page 152 of my copy, used twice as you say. I never noticed it as anything significant before, but then, that's the Wimsey book I like least.
Thanks.
I wasn't doubting anybody's word. I was just surprised that I had never heard it before.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
But hang on, I thought in your view the entire point of tory governments was to preference the rich over the poor by protecting them from IHT and so on.
All with estates under £1 million don't pay IHT, only the richest estates over £1 million pay IHT, so the opposite
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
If while married to her husband she had sex with someone else, she's an adulteress forever. I don't mean to be "fire and brimstone". That is simply what the term means.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
No, otherwise there is no possibility of repentance and atonement. Which again is a Christian value.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
I don't agree. 2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed. 2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus. 2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers. 2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted. This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support. Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles. TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
If while married to her husband she had sex with someone else, she's an adulteress forever. I don't mean to be "fire and brimstone". That is simply what the term means.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
No, otherwise there is no possibility of repentance and atonement. Which again is a Christian value.
Repent and atone all you want, you are still a murderer/adulterer/whatever.
Kwarteng isn't the first Chancellor to be sacked - Lamont, Howe, Lawson and Sunak were all fired, to name but four.
The problem isn't the fact Kwarteng has gone or that Truss has stayed but the policy itself is in complete tatters.
Some will argue an ambitious supply-side led pro-growth policy which might have delivered real incremental change and prosperity for our country has been sabotaged by the media and the markets and the status quo of managed decline will resume. .
That's one view.
Whether or not such ideas have now been buried for a generation (along with AV, Corbynite economics and Scottish independence apparently) I don't know but what do we now have? Some kind of commitment to "growth" - we can all sign up to that - but we're back to the "how"? The reversal of the corporation tax cut doesn't send a strong pro-business signal but presumably the public finances will still be under pressure at the end of the month.
Hunt will presumably try to square the circle between the "old" policy and the "new" policy but with interest rates set to rise, the markets have already tasted blood - they've effectively killed off one economic policy and one Chancellor. They may well try to do so again if Hunt gives too much ground to the Truss worldview.
How much of this will impress a weary and confused electorate? The Conservative Party "looks" divided and exhausted and putting them out of our misery may still be the primary aim of many voters when the time comes.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
I don't agree. 2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed. 2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus. 2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers. 2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted. This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support. Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles. TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
I agree that 2016-2017 was OKish, but after that it's all to do with Brexit. It was Brexit which gave us the 2017-2019 shambles. It was Brexit which gave us the disaster of Boris - the worst PM in living memory before the current one. It was his government which made all the catastrophically bad decisions in the way Brexit was implemented. It was Brexit which made the Conservative Party go mad and which therefore gave us Liz Truss as well as Boris, and it's the economic damage from Brexit which, even if we do get a sane government again, is going to leave us hobbled for years, if not decades.
It's quite a shock to realise he was 72. Somehow he always seemed ageless.
A great actor. Underrated, in fact.
I was sitting at an adjoining table to him and Dawn French at Grouchos They were ENORMOUS. The screen doesn't do them justice. I was sitting with a pleasant female producer who after summoning up the courage asked them for an autograph for her son. Dawn French looked a little nonplussed but he said 'No you can't. We're eating'
I has told her it wasn't a good idea but her son was a Potter fan....
Not an easy rest of our meal!
I’m surprised you didn’t get chucked out of the Groucho for that, they’re usually pretty strict on bothering the celebs. I once saw someone get told to leave for shouting “You know nothing John Snow” at Kit Harrington repeatedly.
That's funny! Yes they do have strict rules (no mobile phones!) though most nights there's enough crazy stuff to give guests a story.
Have you ever seen @Leon? He seems to frequent the place and enjoys the oysters.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
You have to ask why so many people rejected the establishment in 2016.There's no political future in believing that 1979 to 2016 was some sort of golden age or anything close to that.
With respect to "sheeny" (aka sheeney, sheenie), here is excerpt from "The American Language: Supplement I" by H.L. Mencken (1945), pp 613-14:
Sheeny is listed in the NED and in the English-Yiddish Dictionary of Alexander Harkavy. The NED marks in "of obscure origin," and traces it to 1824. Ernest Weekley, in his "Etymological Dictionary of Modern English" calls it "East End slang" and hazards the guess that it may have arisen from a "Yiddish pronunciation of the German schon, beautiful, used in praising wares."
[Mencken gives other explanations by various sources, ranging from variety of Yiddish words and phrases to the shiny hair of the "average 'English' Jew".]
[He also notes that William Makepeace] Thackery used Sheeney in "The Book of Snobs," in 1847, as a generic name for a Jew, along with Moses. [Eric] Partridge says that the word was apparently inoffensive so late as the [18]70s, but by the [18]80s it had become very obnoxious to the Jews of both England and the United States.
SSI - The word as an anti-Semitic insult is thus at least a couple centuries old. However, now antique, being mostly replaced by another one-syllable epithet. Which itself is (I suspect) largely -and thankfully -unknown to most younger Americans, Brits and other English speakers today.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
You have to ask why so many people rejected the establishment in 2016.There's no political future in believing that 1979 to 2016 was some sort of golden age or anything close to that.
Complacency, obviously. People took for granted what they had, which is why there has been so much surprise at the effects of Brexit.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
I don't agree. 2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed. 2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus. 2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers. 2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted. This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support. Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles. TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
I agree that 2016-2017 was OKish, but after that it's all to do with Brexit. It was Brexit which gave us the 2017-2019 shambles. It was Brexit which gave us the disaster of Boris - the worst PM in living memory before the current one. It was his government which made all the catastrophically bad decisions in the way Brexit was implemented. It was Brexit which made the Conservative Party go mad and which therefore gave us Liz Truss as well as Boris, and it's the economic damage from Brexit which, even if we do get a sane government again, is going to leave us hobbled for years, if not decades.
You're looking at things through your own perspective too much.
Things might have been going well for upper middle class oldies in south eastern England but governments were failing many other demographics.
That's what led to Brexit, Corbyn, the SNP in control of Scotland, the rise of Sinn Fein in Ireland, Donald Trump and suchlike.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
New one on me, Ish, and I thought I'd heard them all. Where'd you get it from?
As others have said, I think Whose Body? by Dorothy L Sayers. 1930s detective fiction.
Hmmm....I suspect a very narrow usage then.
Mentioned twice in the novel - and of course the censor considerably complicated understanding by removing the reference to “circumcision” (so identifiable as a Jew) and replacing it with manicured fingernails, not those of the purported tramp initially identified….
On a point of pedantry - the deletion was an explicit comment that the corpse *wasn't* circumcised, so was identifiable as *not* being a Jew.
I've found the use of the word on page 152 of my copy, used twice as you say. I never noticed it as anything significant before, but then, that's the Wimsey book I like least.
It was her first, and as with early Christie reflects society’s then anti-semitism.
Before Truss became PM I suggested she start off with this speech:
"We are competing in a world economy against peoples who are as intelligent and educated as us but who are willing to work harder, under fewer restrictions and for less pay.
For a generation this country has lived beyond its means and has flogged off our assets to foreign ownership so that we can have more foreign holidays and imported consumer tat than what we could pay for from the wealth we have actually created.
We have become more unequal as a country and have neglected vital infrastructure whilst wallowing in ever increasing amounts of self pity and self entitlement.
To get out of this mess will be painful - it will require harder work and lower living standards than we have become used to.
It will also require taxation of the wealth locked up in property - this does not just mean taxing the rich but taxation of the homes every one of us lives in."
Instead we had a final attempt to shake the magic money tree.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
I don't agree. 2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed. 2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus. 2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers. 2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted. This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support. Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles. TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
I agree that 2016-2017 was OKish, but after that it's all to do with Brexit. It was Brexit which gave us the 2017-2019 shambles. It was Brexit which gave us the disaster of Boris - the worst PM in living memory before the current one. It was his government which made all the catastrophically bad decisions in the way Brexit was implemented. It was Brexit which made the Conservative Party go mad and which therefore gave us Liz Truss as well as Boris, and it's the economic damage from Brexit which, even if we do get a sane government again, is going to leave us hobbled for years, if not decades.
I think the time between 2010 - 2015 with the coalition was the Golden Age!
You're looking at things through your own perspective too much.
Things might have been going well for upper middle class oldies in south eastern England but governments were failing many other demographics.
That's what led to Brexit, Corbyn, the SNP in control of Scotland, the rise of Sinn Fein in Ireland, Donald Trump and suchlike.
More precisely, other demographics thought they were being failed, and went for alternatives which made and will make things worse for them, as is well illustrated by the list you give. Mind you, the particular case of Brexit was largely due to upper middle class oldies in Southern England, wasn't it?
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
I don't agree. 2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed. 2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus. 2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers. 2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted. This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support. Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles. TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
I agree that 2016-2017 was OKish, but after that it's all to do with Brexit. It was Brexit which gave us the 2017-2019 shambles. It was Brexit which gave us the disaster of Boris - the worst PM in living memory before the current one. It was his government which made all the catastrophically bad decisions in the way Brexit was implemented. It was Brexit which made the Conservative Party go mad and which therefore gave us Liz Truss as well as Boris, and it's the economic damage from Brexit which, even if we do get a sane government again, is going to leave us hobbled for years, if not decades.
If you're thesis is that had we voted Remain then the post-Brexit parliaments would have been all sweetness and light and no-one would have ever supported a Brexiteer again (like Boris), or indeed a Remainer who had support from Brexiteers (like Truss), then I think you're wrong. Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
If while married to her husband she had sex with someone else, she's an adulteress forever. I don't mean to be "fire and brimstone". That is simply what the term means.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
No, otherwise there is no possibility of repentance and atonement. Which again is a Christian value.
Repent and atone all you want, you are still a murderer/adulterer/whatever.
You were and have to face the consequences of that action but if you have repented and are no longer committing it you are not a murderer or adulterer now
How is this Hunt as de facto PM thing going to work? Is Truss going to be wearing an earpiece at PMQs? Will Hunt stand behind her at heads of Government meetings? Who’ll meet the King every week? It’s bonkers.
With respect to "sheeny" (aka sheeney, sheenie), here is excerpt from "The American Language: Supplement I" by H.L. Mencken (1945), pp 613-14:
Sheeny is listed in the NED and in the English-Yiddish Dictionary of Alexander Harkavy. The NED marks in "of obscure origin," and traces it to 1824. Ernest Weekley, in his "Etymological Dictionary of Modern English" calls it "East End slang" and hazards the guess that it may have arisen from a "Yiddish pronunciation of the German schon, beautiful, used in praising wares."
[Mencken gives other explanations by various sources, ranging from variety of Yiddish words and phrases to the shiny hair of the "average 'English' Jew".]
[He also notes that William Makepeace] Thackery used Sheeney in "The Book of Snobs," in 1847, as a generic name for a Jew, along with Moses. [Eric] Partridge says that the word was apparently inoffensive so late as the [18]70s, but by the [18]80s it had become very obnoxious to the Jews of both England and the United States.
SSI - The word as an anti-Semitic insult is thus at least a couple centuries old. However, now antique, being mostly replaced by another one-syllable epithet. Which itself is (I suspect) largely -and thankfully -unknown to most younger Americans, Brits and other English speakers today.
Thanks SSI. That's enlightening.
So it's somewhat archaic and localised which would explain why I had never come across it despite being an East Ender with a knowledge of German and some Yiddish.
You're looking at things through your own perspective too much.
Things might have been going well for upper middle class oldies in south eastern England but governments were failing many other demographics.
That's what led to Brexit, Corbyn, the SNP in control of Scotland, the rise of Sinn Fein in Ireland, Donald Trump and suchlike.
More precisely, other demographics thought they were being failed, and went for alternatives which made and will make things worse for them, as is well illustrated by the list you give.
No, they really were being failed.
For example the young who had to deal with a tripling of student tuition fees, unaffordable housing and inheriting the repayments for the money the government was borrowing to subsidise oldies.
Or those working class who were losing out on job security and pay rises because of uncontrolled immigration which government continually lied about.
And have things been made worse for them ?
Attempts to shaft the young have reduced thanks to Corbyn while the working class currently have full employment and pay rises.
If you're thesis is that had we voted Remain then the post-Brexit parliaments would have been all sweetness and light and no-one would have ever supported a Brexiteer again (like Boris), or indeed a Remainer who had support from Brexiteers (like Truss), then I think you're wrong. Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.
It was a series of bad mistakes by multiple people which got us into this mess:
- Labour choosing Corbyn - The referendum Leave vote - Theresa May's GE disaster (what were voters thinking???) - The idiotic behaviour of MPs in the hung parliament - The Conservative Party losing its mind and choosing Boris - The way the Boris government implemented Brexit - The Conservative Party still out of its mind and choosing Truss
That poll on Channel 4 was a horror show for Truss .
64% want her gone , only 12% want her to remain as PM.
61% want a general election including 36% of 2019 Tory voters . Its unlikely the 36% want an election to say thanks to Truss for her hard work ! More likely they want rid of the current government and regret their last vote .
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
If while married to her husband she had sex with someone else, she's an adulteress forever. I don't mean to be "fire and brimstone". That is simply what the term means.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
No, otherwise there is no possibility of repentance and atonement. Which again is a Christian value.
You're looking at things through your own perspective too much.
Things might have been going well for upper middle class oldies in south eastern England but governments were failing many other demographics.
That's what led to Brexit, Corbyn, the SNP in control of Scotland, the rise of Sinn Fein in Ireland, Donald Trump and suchlike.
More precisely, other demographics thought they were being failed, and went for alternatives which made and will make things worse for them, as is well illustrated by the list you give. Mind you, the particular case of Brexit was largely due to upper middle class oldies in Southern England, wasn't it?
Hmm...not quite that narrow, Richard.
It was well supported around here in North West Gloucestershire, so Shire England. You can certainly sense that comfort and fear of change that makes people inclined to insularity.
With respect to "sheeny" (aka sheeney, sheenie), here is excerpt from "The American Language: Supplement I" by H.L. Mencken (1945), pp 613-14:
Sheeny is listed in the NED and in the English-Yiddish Dictionary of Alexander Harkavy. The NED marks in "of obscure origin," and traces it to 1824. Ernest Weekley, in his "Etymological Dictionary of Modern English" calls it "East End slang" and hazards the guess that it may have arisen from a "Yiddish pronunciation of the German schon, beautiful, used in praising wares."
[Mencken gives other explanations by various sources, ranging from variety of Yiddish words and phrases to the shiny hair of the "average 'English' Jew".]
[He also notes that William Makepeace] Thackery used Sheeney in "The Book of Snobs," in 1847, as a generic name for a Jew, along with Moses. [Eric] Partridge says that the word was apparently inoffensive so late as the [18]70s, but by the [18]80s it had become very obnoxious to the Jews of both England and the United States.
SSI - The word as an anti-Semitic insult is thus at least a couple centuries old. However, now antique, being mostly replaced by another one-syllable epithet. Which itself is (I suspect) largely -and thankfully -unknown to most younger Americans, Brits and other English speakers today.
Thanks SSI. That's enlightening.
So it's somewhat archaic and localised which would explain why I had never come across it despite being an East Ender with a knowledge of German and some Yiddish.
Think it was pretty generalized throughout English-speaking world - in it's day, which was pre-WW2.
Interesting that two-syllable slur got replaced by one-syllable slur. More of a bite?
Same thing happened re: common slang epithets for Italians and Mexicans. With the 2-syllable dying out, and the one-syllable heard less & less (again thankfully).
[snip] Attempts to shaft the young have reduced thanks to Corbyn while the working class currently have full employment and pay rises.
Have you read the newspapers recently?
Well if you're referring to full employment then I'll point out the unemployment and job vacancies numbers.
And pay rises have increased - not by enough but certainly more than they would have.
Its one fault of the government that they don't realise that pay rises are a necessity in sharing the proceeds of economic growth among the populace - it cannot all go on increasing asset prices.
Anyway, must dash, real life is unfortunately complicated at present.
@Nigel_Farage Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.
This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.
Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.
A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
"Brexit is not complete" - Oh no. This implies there is more "Brexit" to come.
One feels like a captive of the Gestapo who, having seen off a dozen 'interrogations', hears those footsteps again.
The solution to Brexit's failure is always more Brexit. To say anything else, Farage would have to admit that his whole political career has been devoted to harming the country he claims to love. He's not stupid so he's probably worked this out, but he's not going to admit it, ever.
Yep. Brexit has to be of the hardest purest ilk - and no matter how sheeny and pure it looks to the naked layman's eye* the true connoisseur (had to google that spelling) can always detect a flaw.
* an assist for @ydoethur to score with something here.
Unfortunate spelling error in shiny.
No, I meant sheeny! - as in possessed of a sheen.
Does it have some other yucky connation?
Offensive slang for jew.
Oh gosh, didn't realize.
If it makes you feel better, I'm an expert on the Holocaust so know a great deal more than most about antisemitism, and I've never heard of that one either.
Nazis have been found in the British Army, and in Britain more generally. You could easily put together a photo montage of them. Does that damn the whole rest of the country by association? Of course not.
If you're thesis is that had we voted Remain then the post-Brexit parliaments would have been all sweetness and light and no-one would have ever supported a Brexiteer again (like Boris), or indeed a Remainer who had support from Brexiteers (like Truss), then I think you're wrong. Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.
It was a series of bad mistakes by multiple people which got us into this mess:
- Labour choosing Corbyn - The referendum Leave vote - Theresa May's GE disaster (what were voters thinking???) - The idiotic behaviour of MPs in the hung parliament - The Conservative Party losing its mind and choosing Boris - The way the Boris government implemented Brexit - The Conservative Party still out of its mind and choosing Truss
If you think Brexit was the critical event, it's very odd that David Cameron doesn't appear in your list of mistakes.
Seattle Times ($) copied from Washington Post - Larry the Cat chases much larger fox from London’s 10 Downing Street
LONDON — A London fox is just the latest to learn what many animals in central London already know: Don’t mess with Larry the Cat.
Larry, Downing Street’s “chief mouser,” made headlines in Britain this week when he chased off a fox prowling on his turf.
Foxes in London are a thing. Thousands roam the streets. It’s not uncommon to see a blur of red fur late at night as foxes dart across a road, or eyes lighting up in the dark as they lurk behind garbage cans, in search of scraps of discarded food.
In Larry’s case, the fox was roaming around his patch outside of the prime minister’s residence at Downing Street when the cat went into full attack mode, chasing off an animal twice his size who fled into a flower bed before, wisely, getting out of there.
The feline-canine standoff wasn’t the first time that Larry showed who was the real boss at Downing Street.
Larry, a 15-year-old tabby, has had several encounters with animals outside of Downing Street, his home since 2011 after staff adopted him from the Battersea Dogs & Cats Home, an animal welfare charity that helps to find homes for unwanted pets. He was brought in to help with the rodent problem; the prime minister’s spokesman at the time said he had a “strong predatory drive.”
The British public saw just how strong that drive was when the rolling cameras, waiting for an update from officials on tense Brexit talks, caught Larry lunging at an pigeon. The bird seemed unharmed (miraculously) and flew off after their brief tussle.
He’s also bossed around fellow felines. His great nemesis was Palmerston, a black-and-white cat that belonged to the Foreign Office. The two have had highly undiplomatic relations, hissing and swiping at each other. In 2020, Palmerston “retired” to the countryside where he could “spend more time relaxing away from the limelight.”
Larry has also seen off several members of the animal kingdom. He’s currently on his fourth prime minister. He was brought into the office when David Cameron was leader. Cameron was followed by Theresa May, Boris Johnson and now Liz Truss.
Given the current political climate, some are wondering if Truss might not be his last lodger.
SSI - At least SOMEBODY hanging around Downing Street is up to their job.
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
You have to ask why so many people rejected the establishment in 2016.There's no political future in believing that 1979 to 2016 was some sort of golden age or anything close to that.
It was very good for the upper middle class.
Inflation was tamed by consumer goods collapsing in price. In services, the reduction of a series of jobs to minimum wage massively reduced costs. So services became relatively cheaper, as well.
When you consider wage rises consistently above inflation for the high end white collar jobs through this period…
If you're thesis is that had we voted Remain then the post-Brexit parliaments would have been all sweetness and light and no-one would have ever supported a Brexiteer again (like Boris), or indeed a Remainer who had support from Brexiteers (like Truss), then I think you're wrong. Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.
It was a series of bad mistakes by multiple people which got us into this mess:
- Labour choosing Corbyn - The referendum Leave vote - Theresa May's GE disaster (what were voters thinking???) - The idiotic behaviour of MPs in the hung parliament - The Conservative Party losing its mind and choosing Boris - The way the Boris government implemented Brexit - The Conservative Party still out of its mind and choosing Truss
If you think Brexit was the critical event, it's very odd that David Cameron doesn't appear in your list of mistakes.
It's a good list and hard to dispute that Brexit was not a - if not the -critical event. If you want to spread the net a little wider then of course Cameron's name comes up, along with numerous EU leaders who left him with little room to manouvre.
But I do like Richard's list - succint and precise.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
A lot of churches do not accept that episcopal hierarchy as legitimate, so are intrinsically suspicious of that sort of leadership.
Since most turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas even in mid October, there's no prospect of enough Conservatives committing individual political suicide to allow the entire party to commit political suicide.
Musing on this earlier, I found myself the degree to which contempt for a party becomes personalised by and contained within the leader and yet it's the party itself which faces the electoral reckoning.
It's also true to say periodic electoral reckonings can be cathartic for any party - the punishment is taken, the losses are accepted but the slate is wiped clean and the process of rebuilding can begin. Whether the Conservatives in 1997, Labour in 2010 or the LDs in 2015, every party reaches a point when it runs out of road, the electorate, whose contempt said party has come to own, pays the price but can re-start.
After 12 and a half years in Government, I'd argue the Conservative Party is at a point when not only should it no longer seek to avoid its electoral reckoning, it should actively pursue it, accept it and embrace it. Only by so doing can new leaders and a new generation seek to re-group and re-define what it is to be a Conservative in 2030s Britain.
I'd also argue the longer any party tries to avoid its reckoning, the more severe said reckoning will be. The current danger is the reckoning is so severe as to threaten the one final advantage the Conservatives enjoy even in the depths of opposition - that they are the only credible alternative Government. Even in 1983 (for Labour) and 2001 (for the Tories) that was true.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
What is a "former" adulteress?
And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.
You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.
As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.
So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
If while married to her husband she had sex with someone else, she's an adulteress forever. I don't mean to be "fire and brimstone". That is simply what the term means.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
No, otherwise there is no possibility of repentance and atonement. Which again is a Christian value.
You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.
They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.
One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!
There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.
This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today
And by the way you voted remain
No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.
Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
I didn’t force him out
Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
Colourful but correct.
Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.
One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.
As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in 2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.
The mistake was getting rid of Boris
I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.
As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.
So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
But you said UK, not globally. Can't move the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
My original point stands, the Archbishop of Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
A lot of churches do not accept that episcopal hierarchy as legitimate, so are intrinsically suspicious of that sort of leadership.
Yes, mainly the Protestant evangelical churches.
However they also tend to lack a national leader or international head so have no equivalent to the PM which I was seeking the Christian equivalent for
Looks like he's too young to remember pre-Thatcher Britain, when we were also poor and badly-governed compared with our peers (the 'sick man of Europe'). The decline since 2016 does feel a bit like those bad old days, albeit in a different style. It will take years to recover.
Marking out 2016 as the year when it all went wrong suggests a rose-tinted view of the prior era, during which most of the problems we face now were actually created.
No, I don't think so. Of course mistakes were made pre 2016, some of them serious, but name a major country which hasn't made serious policy or governance mistakes. Overall, from Thatcher onwards we were generally well-governed by international standards, and for parts of that time particularly well-governed. It's only since 2016 that we've been subject to chaos at the heart of government, and only since 2016 that we've fallen far behind in economic terms. Those failures weren't of course all due directly to Brexit, but they stem from bad decisions made by voters, political parties and politicians in the lead-up to and following the referendum.
I don't agree. 2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed. 2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus. 2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers. 2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted. This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support. Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles. TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
I agree that 2016-2017 was OKish, but after that it's all to do with Brexit. It was Brexit which gave us the 2017-2019 shambles. It was Brexit which gave us the disaster of Boris - the worst PM in living memory before the current one. It was his government which made all the catastrophically bad decisions in the way Brexit was implemented. It was Brexit which made the Conservative Party go mad and which therefore gave us Liz Truss as well as Boris, and it's the economic damage from Brexit which, even if we do get a sane government again, is going to leave us hobbled for years, if not decades.
I think the time between 2010 - 2015 with the coalition was the Golden Age!
I have been saying for some years that the Lib Dems in government would be seen as a golden age of British politics. Increasingly that is obvious.
Con MPs need time to plan a career outside politics, they are not going to throw that time away together with any slender hope of a continued career *in* politics by voting against her in HoC, if that is what you mean. Graham Brady voncs are toothless, on past form.
Con MPs need time to plan a career outside politics, they are not going to throw that time away together with any slender hope of a continued career *in* politics by voting against her in HoC, if that is what you mean. Graham Brady voncs are toothless, on past form.
Which is why Starmer needs to put one down now. Get every Tory MP to soil their own reputation by voting FOR Liz Truss as PM.
If you're thesis is that had we voted Remain then the post-Brexit parliaments would have been all sweetness and light and no-one would have ever supported a Brexiteer again (like Boris), or indeed a Remainer who had support from Brexiteers (like Truss), then I think you're wrong. Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.
It was a series of bad mistakes by multiple people which got us into this mess:
- Labour choosing Corbyn - The referendum Leave vote - Theresa May's GE disaster (what were voters thinking???) - The idiotic behaviour of MPs in the hung parliament - The Conservative Party losing its mind and choosing Boris - The way the Boris government implemented Brexit - The Conservative Party still out of its mind and choosing Truss
If you think Brexit was the critical event, it's very odd that David Cameron doesn't appear in your list of mistakes.
It's a good list and hard to dispute that Brexit was not a - if not the -critical event. If you want to spread the net a little wider then of course Cameron's name comes up, along with numerous EU leaders who left him with little room to manouvre.
But I do like Richard's list - succint and precise.
The post-2016 period shows the failure of the settlement that was created beforehand, and that goes back to Tony Blair:
- Depoliticised governance -> leading to a disconnect between the views of the electorate and the implementation of policy - Asymmetric devolution -> boosting the independence movement but leading to a constitutional stalemate - Allowing the Euro to proceed without us -> accelerating our political estrangement from the EU project
Cameron came along and failed to deal with any of them, instead trying to gamble that the status quo would hold and having no answers when it blew up in his face.
Con MPs need time to plan a career outside politics, they are not going to throw that time away together with any slender hope of a continued career *in* politics by voting against her in HoC, if that is what you mean. Graham Brady voncs are toothless, on past form.
Which is why Starmer needs to put one down now. Get every Tory MP to soil their own reputation by voting FOR Liz Truss as PM.
What is the point of that? It's like trying to trick Myra Hindley into damaging her reputation and standing with the public.
I take the view that Truss is a bit more secure now than this morning.
Hunt is deft and competent.
He'll reassure the markets.
The problem is now there is no policy and the markets have tasted blood. Having undermined and destroyed one Chancellor's policies, they might feel they can do the same with another.
I wonder what assurances Truss has given Hunt in terms of the relationship between Nos 10 and 11 going forward.
Since most turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas even in mid October, there's no prospect of enough Conservatives committing individual political suicide to allow the entire party to commit political suicide.
Musing on this earlier, I found myself the degree to which contempt for a party becomes personalised by and contained within the leader and yet it's the party itself which faces the electoral reckoning.
It's also true to say periodic electoral reckonings can be cathartic for any party - the punishment is taken, the losses are accepted but the slate is wiped clean and the process of rebuilding can begin. Whether the Conservatives in 1997, Labour in 2010 or the LDs in 2015, every party reaches a point when it runs out of road, the electorate, whose contempt said party has come to own, pays the price but can re-start.
After 12 and a half years in Government, I'd argue the Conservative Party is at a point when not only should it no longer seek to avoid its electoral reckoning, it should actively pursue it, accept it and embrace it. Only by so doing can new leaders and a new generation seek to re-group and re-define what it is to be a Conservative in 2030s Britain.
I'd also argue the longer any party tries to avoid its reckoning, the more severe said reckoning will be. The current danger is the reckoning is so severe as to threaten the one final advantage the Conservatives enjoy even in the depths of opposition - that they are the only credible alternative Government. Even in 1983 (for Labour) and 2001 (for the Tories) that was true.
Yes, the whole government.
The right thing would be for Tory MPs to vote down the government and trigger a GE (and not attempt to appoint another PM)
The right wing thing would be to vote with her out of loyalty, thereby hitching the party to the sinking ship.
Comments
Prime Ministers though tend to come from the House of Commons now
If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
A bit like this one:
https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.326C94R
https://twitter.com/whatiskiss/status/1580302947594145793/photo/1
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/1580967175711764480?s=20&t=6FdGyeMFQ0BQQBuLwVjM9A
I has told her it wasn't a good idea but her son was a Potter fan....
Not an easy rest of our meal!
And it is also bollocks anyway. As demonstrated by, for instance, this simple counterexample of this reverend chap giving the Kirk's view to the public in a newspaper. But of course you won't have heard of this event.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/people/queen-funeral-church-of-scotland-moderator-says-time-to-move-on-with-hope-and-expectation-after-funeral-3847969
That was still positively light-hearted relative to the sense of doom around Truss at the moment.
He doesn't do that, any more than the AB of Westminster does.
When you're in a hole, stop digging. You've made an error. Everyone does it sometimes. No big deal.
https://twitter.com/warmonitor3/status/1580968866460880897
Have the Tories come up with a cunning plan though? Hunt is effectively PM now as well as CotE. Truss is little more than a figurehead. Why not keep it that way until the GE?
I've heard worse ideas.
The Archbishop of Westminster is chief Bishop of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales but it is the Pope who is head of the global Roman Catholic church
What's more concerning is that (a) too many people indulge in whataboutery over it, to cover up the trifling detail that the entire Russian government and armed forces is full-bloodedly fascist and (b) make a load of antisemitic comments themselves on the way, as Dynamo did (and he was very pissed off when I called him out for it).
I wouldn't walk into that trap, if I were you. Caesar's wife applies in your case.
Similarly, pick any murderer - they do not stop being a murderer once their victim is dead, or even once they've decided to stop killing people. A murderer is a person who has murdered someone.
You are having a bad evening, HYUFD. I probably agree with the political contrast you draw between Johnson and Truss, but that's got nothing to do with whether the term "former adulteress" is meaningful.
"Meet the tough women leaders taking on Vladimir Putin"</>
https://twitter.com/kajakallas/status/1580888752523993088?s=20&t=wpFnlMpLHw9N7TWc8Tzpgw
I've found the use of the word on page 152 of my copy, used twice as you say. I never noticed it as anything significant before, but then, that's the Wimsey book I like least.
I wasn't doubting anybody's word. I was just surprised that I had never heard it before.
Large Orthodox community in the town.
pay IHT, only the richest estates over £1 million pay IHT, so the opposite
2016-2017, I wouldn't say we were conspicuouy badly governed.
2017-2019 was a shambles, but it was a shambles born of a lack of a majority in parliament, and a lack of anything approaching consensus.
2019-2021 we were badly governed, but the times were exceptional and we were less badly governed than many of our peers.
2021-2022 was the long, slow, drawn out death of Boris Johnson through matters entirely and needlessly self-inflicted.
This current period is an entirely new and different sort of shambles and is down to Liz Truss's inability to do government, and at one remove down to the fact that the process to elect a new leader lead in this case to a leader whom the PLP are not particularly minded to support and whom conservatuve voters are not particularly minded to support.
Had either of the otger two leading candidates (leavers both, I think, in contrast to remainer Liz) we would not be facung this shambles.
TLDR: it isn't cos of Brexit.
Kwarteng isn't the first Chancellor to be sacked - Lamont, Howe, Lawson and Sunak were all fired, to name but four.
The problem isn't the fact Kwarteng has gone or that Truss has stayed but the policy itself is in complete tatters.
Some will argue an ambitious supply-side led pro-growth policy which might have delivered real incremental change and prosperity for our country has been sabotaged by the media and the markets and the status quo of managed decline will resume. .
That's one view.
Whether or not such ideas have now been buried for a generation (along with AV, Corbynite economics and Scottish independence apparently) I don't know but what do we now have? Some kind of commitment to "growth" - we can all sign up to that - but we're back to the "how"? The reversal of the corporation tax cut doesn't send a strong pro-business signal but presumably the public finances will still be under pressure at the end of the month.
Hunt will presumably try to square the circle between the "old" policy and the "new" policy but with interest rates set to rise, the markets have already tasted blood - they've effectively killed off one economic policy and one Chancellor. They may well try to do so again if Hunt gives too much ground to the Truss worldview.
How much of this will impress a weary and confused electorate? The Conservative Party "looks" divided and exhausted and putting them out of our misery may still be the primary aim of many voters when the time comes.
Sheeny is listed in the NED and in the English-Yiddish Dictionary of Alexander Harkavy. The NED marks in "of obscure origin," and traces it to 1824. Ernest Weekley, in his "Etymological Dictionary of Modern English" calls it "East End slang" and hazards the guess that it may have arisen from a "Yiddish pronunciation of the German schon, beautiful, used in praising wares."
[Mencken gives other explanations by various sources, ranging from variety of Yiddish words and phrases to the shiny hair of the "average 'English' Jew".]
[He also notes that William Makepeace] Thackery used Sheeney in "The Book of Snobs," in 1847, as a generic name for a Jew, along with Moses. [Eric] Partridge says that the word was apparently inoffensive so late as the [18]70s, but by the [18]80s it had become very obnoxious to the Jews of both England and the United States.
SSI - The word as an anti-Semitic insult is thus at least a couple centuries old. However, now antique, being mostly replaced by another one-syllable epithet. Which itself is (I suspect) largely -and thankfully -unknown to most younger Americans, Brits and other English speakers today.
Things might have been going well for upper middle class oldies in south eastern England but governments were failing many other demographics.
That's what led to Brexit, Corbyn, the SNP in control of Scotland, the rise of Sinn Fein in Ireland, Donald Trump and suchlike.
"We are competing in a world economy against peoples who are as intelligent and educated as us but who are willing to work harder, under fewer restrictions and for less pay.
For a generation this country has lived beyond its means and has flogged off our assets to foreign ownership so that we can have more foreign holidays and imported consumer tat than what we could pay for from the wealth we have actually created.
We have become more unequal as a country and have neglected vital infrastructure whilst wallowing in ever increasing amounts of self pity and self entitlement.
To get out of this mess will be painful - it will require harder work and lower living standards than we have become used to.
It will also require taxation of the wealth locked up in property - this does not just mean taxing the rich but taxation of the homes every one of us lives in."
Instead we had a final attempt to shake the magic money tree.
Namely the increase in stamp duty thresholds on property.
Also know as the 'increase house prices in southern England' policy.
We’ve now tried three manifestations of brexit. None have stuck.
The fourth, the hard left brexit, was shot down by the British people.
The fifth, a labour centrist “make it work” brexit, probably rejoining the EEA, or something, is yet to be tried.
Six and a half years on, we still don’t know what brexit actually means.
Let this be a lesson for grand political projects. Have a bloody plan for what to do if you win the political argument!
Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.
So it's somewhat archaic and localised which would explain why I had never come across it despite being an East Ender with a knowledge of German and some Yiddish.
For example the young who had to deal with a tripling of student tuition fees, unaffordable housing and inheriting the repayments for the money the government was borrowing to subsidise oldies.
Or those working class who were losing out on job security and pay rises because of uncontrolled immigration which government continually lied about.
And have things been made worse for them ?
Attempts to shaft the young have reduced thanks to Corbyn while the working class currently have full employment and pay rises.
- Labour choosing Corbyn
- The referendum Leave vote
- Theresa May's GE disaster (what were voters thinking???)
- The idiotic behaviour of MPs in the hung parliament
- The Conservative Party losing its mind and choosing Boris
- The way the Boris government implemented Brexit
- The Conservative Party still out of its mind and choosing Truss
64% want her gone , only 12% want her to remain as PM.
61% want a general election including 36% of 2019 Tory voters . Its unlikely the 36% want an election to say thanks to Truss for her hard work ! More likely they want rid of the current government and regret their last vote .
It was well supported around here in North West Gloucestershire, so Shire England. You can certainly sense that comfort and fear of change that makes people inclined to insularity.
Interesting that two-syllable slur got replaced by one-syllable slur. More of a bite?
Same thing happened re: common slang epithets for Italians and Mexicans. With the 2-syllable dying out, and the one-syllable heard less & less (again thankfully).
And pay rises have increased - not by enough but certainly more than they would have.
Its one fault of the government that they don't realise that pay rises are a necessity in sharing the proceeds of economic growth among the populace - it cannot all go on increasing asset prices.
Anyway, must dash, real life is unfortunately complicated at present.
LONDON — A London fox is just the latest to learn what many animals in central London already know: Don’t mess with Larry the Cat.
Larry, Downing Street’s “chief mouser,” made headlines in Britain this week when he chased off a fox prowling on his turf.
Foxes in London are a thing. Thousands roam the streets. It’s not uncommon to see a blur of red fur late at night as foxes dart across a road, or eyes lighting up in the dark as they lurk behind garbage cans, in search of scraps of discarded food.
In Larry’s case, the fox was roaming around his patch outside of the prime minister’s residence at Downing Street when the cat went into full attack mode, chasing off an animal twice his size who fled into a flower bed before, wisely, getting out of there.
The feline-canine standoff wasn’t the first time that Larry showed who was the real boss at Downing Street.
Larry, a 15-year-old tabby, has had several encounters with animals outside of Downing Street, his home since 2011 after staff adopted him from the Battersea Dogs & Cats Home, an animal welfare charity that helps to find homes for unwanted pets. He was brought in to help with the rodent problem; the prime minister’s spokesman at the time said he had a “strong predatory drive.”
The British public saw just how strong that drive was when the rolling cameras, waiting for an update from officials on tense Brexit talks, caught Larry lunging at an pigeon. The bird seemed unharmed (miraculously) and flew off after their brief tussle.
He’s also bossed around fellow felines. His great nemesis was Palmerston, a black-and-white cat that belonged to the Foreign Office. The two have had highly undiplomatic relations, hissing and swiping at each other. In 2020, Palmerston “retired” to the countryside where he could “spend more time relaxing away from the limelight.”
Larry has also seen off several members of the animal kingdom. He’s currently on his fourth prime minister. He was brought into the office when David Cameron was leader. Cameron was followed by Theresa May, Boris Johnson and now Liz Truss.
Given the current political climate, some are wondering if Truss might not be his last lodger.
SSI - At least SOMEBODY hanging around Downing Street is up to their job.
Inflation was tamed by consumer goods collapsing in price. In services, the reduction of a series of jobs to minimum wage massively reduced costs. So services became relatively cheaper, as well.
When you consider wage rises consistently above inflation for the high end white collar jobs through this period…
But I do like Richard's list - succint and precise.
Since most turkeys don't usually vote for Christmas even in mid October, there's no prospect of enough Conservatives committing individual political suicide to allow the entire party to commit political suicide.
Musing on this earlier, I found myself the degree to which contempt for a party becomes personalised by and contained within the leader and yet it's the party itself which faces the electoral reckoning.
It's also true to say periodic electoral reckonings can be cathartic for any party - the punishment is taken, the losses are accepted but the slate is wiped clean and the process of rebuilding can begin. Whether the Conservatives in 1997, Labour in 2010 or the LDs in 2015, every party reaches a point when it runs out of road, the electorate, whose contempt said party has come to own, pays the price but can re-start.
After 12 and a half years in Government, I'd argue the Conservative Party is at a point when not only should it no longer seek to avoid its electoral reckoning, it should actively pursue it, accept it and embrace it. Only by so doing can new leaders and a new generation seek to re-group and re-define what it is to be a Conservative in 2030s Britain.
I'd also argue the longer any party tries to avoid its reckoning, the more severe said reckoning will be. The current danger is the reckoning is so severe as to threaten the one final advantage the Conservatives enjoy even in the depths of opposition - that they are the only credible alternative Government. Even in 1983 (for Labour) and 2001 (for the Tories) that was true.
However they also tend to lack a national leader or international head so have no equivalent to the PM which I was seeking the Christian equivalent for
Hunt is deft and competent.
He'll reassure the markets.
#CrashedAndBurned
- Depoliticised governance -> leading to a disconnect between the views of the electorate and the implementation of policy
- Asymmetric devolution -> boosting the independence movement but leading to a constitutional stalemate
- Allowing the Euro to proceed without us -> accelerating our political estrangement from the EU project
Cameron came along and failed to deal with any of them, instead trying to gamble that the status quo would hold and having no answers when it blew up in his face.
I wonder what assurances Truss has given Hunt in terms of the relationship between Nos 10 and 11 going forward.
The right thing would be for Tory MPs to vote down the government and trigger a GE (and not attempt to appoint another PM)
The right wing thing would be to vote with her out of loyalty, thereby hitching the party to the sinking ship.