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After sacking her Chancellor the money goes on a 2022 Truss exit – politicalbetting.com

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  • stodge said:

    I take the view that Truss is a bit more secure now than this morning.

    Hunt is deft and competent.

    He'll reassure the markets.

    The problem is now there is no policy and the markets have tasted blood. Having undermined and destroyed one Chancellor's policies, they might feel they can do the same with another.

    I wonder what assurances Truss has given Hunt in terms of the relationship between Nos 10 and 11 going forward.
    Hunt will be dominant and she'll have to be submissive.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I take the view that Truss is a bit more secure now than this morning.

    Hunt is deft and competent.

    He'll reassure the markets.

    Bond yields up since Hunt appointmnet, £:$ rose a bit but fell back, ftse100 level on the day.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    DougSeal said:

    How is this Hunt as de facto PM thing going to work? Is Truss going to be wearing an earpiece at PMQs? Will Hunt stand behind her at heads of Government meetings? Who’ll meet the King every week? It’s bonkers.

    I think the idea is a bit overegged to be honest. Yes, May has been forced into a u-turn, of sorts, but it's not like Hunt was proposing his own economic platform, and even if he was he's still nominally aligned to much of what Truss was proposing.

    She's weak, and his stock has just risen as hers has fallen, but I see that as meaning she is vulnerable to every Cabinet Member with their own agenda to backbencher with an axe to grind, not that Hunt will now be able to drive the agenda.

    She's a puppet, but without a puppeteer.
  • ydoethur said:

    Regarding the antisemitic term being discussed down thread, it was in regular use when I was at school.

    Really, Sandy? What part of the country? I never heard it in the East End or at my school where about 65% of the pupils were Jewish.
    Gateshead in the 1970s.

    Large Orthodox community in the town.
    Interesting that 1970s Gateshead was full of Lord Peter Wimsey fans.
    Perhaps they thought it was just Bunter?
    It was quite common in nineteenth century fiction, particularly the lower end stuff. Got a feeling it appears in Trilby, but could be wrong.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,589

    HYUFD said:

    DJ41 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
    He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.

    As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
    What is a "former" adulteress?

    And Johnson is also an adulterer. And so is the king.

    You don't seem to be holding a male PM to the same standards of morality as a female PM.
    Truss was having sex with Mark Field who was not her husband, I assume she is not an adulteress at present whatever the rumours regarding her relationship with her former Chancellor.

    As I pointed out Johnson is also someone with a colourful private life but his government never produced budgets preferencing the rich more than the poor like Truss' government.

    So I would make neither Pope nor Archbishop but in a choice between who is more Christian, Boris edges it over Truss
    You can’t judge someone’s Christianity by their actions. We are all sinners in the eyes of the Lord
    Matthew 7:20 suggests otherwise - but then again, 7:1 says don’t do it anyway.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    edited October 2022
    kle4 said:

    Yes, May has been forced into a u-turn, of sorts...

    That's a Freudian slip.

    image
  • Evening all,

    Strayed awfully close to @Leon territory by going to London Zoo to watch the three young tiger cubs.

    But have I missed much today? :lol:
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    This thread has

    walked offstage without taking a question from Beth Rigby, and boy is she pissed.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,541
    Even if things improve with Hunt as COE at the end of the day Liz Truss is still PM and will be the focal point at any future GE .

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Royale voncing Lizzie would be a jolly jape indeed. Why not? Would be hugely amusing to see Tory MPs voting confidence in her, as TimS says.

    P.S. I quite like Liz on a personal level. She seems quite sweet. But she is so far out of her depth it’s cruel to continue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    Yes, May has been forced into a u-turn, of sorts...

    That's a Freudian slip.

    image
    Nah, I've been copy pasting my posts for years, this is just the first time someone has noticed.
  • NEW THREAD
  • Cookie said:


    If you're thesis is that had we voted Remain then the post-Brexit parliaments would have been all sweetness and light and no-one would have ever supported a Brexiteer again (like Boris), or indeed a Remainer who had support from Brexiteers (like Truss), then I think you're wrong.
    Arguments that don't go away if one side wins a referendum also don't go away if the other side wins.

    It was a series of bad mistakes by multiple people which got us into this mess:

    - Labour choosing Corbyn
    - The referendum Leave vote
    - Theresa May's GE disaster (what were voters thinking???)
    - The idiotic behaviour of MPs in the hung parliament
    - The Conservative Party losing its mind and choosing Boris
    - The way the Boris government implemented Brexit
    - The Conservative Party still out of its mind and choosing Truss
    If you think Brexit was the critical event, it's very odd that David Cameron doesn't appear in your list of mistakes.
    It's a good list and hard to dispute that Brexit was not a - if not the -critical event. If you want to spread the net a little wider then of course Cameron's name comes up, along with numerous EU leaders who left him with little room to manouvre.

    But I do like Richard's list - succint and precise.
    The post-2016 period shows the failure of the settlement that was created beforehand, and that goes back to Tony Blair:

    - Depoliticised governance -> leading to a disconnect between the views of the electorate and the implementation of policy
    - Asymmetric devolution -> boosting the independence movement but leading to a constitutional stalemate
    - Allowing the Euro to proceed without us -> accelerating our political estrangement from the EU project

    Cameron came along and failed to deal with any of them, instead trying to gamble that the status quo would hold and having no answers when it blew up in his face.
    Sure. The list of culprits is endless. May as well include ourselves whilst at it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
    He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.

    As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
    So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
    As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.

    So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
    Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
    Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
    You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
    tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
    Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
    But you said UK, not globally. Can't move

    the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
    My original point stands, the Archbishop of


    Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.

    If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
    A lot of churches do not accept that episcopal hierarchy as legitimate, so are intrinsically suspicious of that sort of leadership.
    It’s amazing the Church manages to limp on, given how many silly rules and internecine spats it indulges in.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    edited October 2022

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party at did it.
    He ate a piece of cake at a birthday cake and liked women.

    As Truss is a former adulteress herself but unlike Boris also pushed a budget that favoured the rich more than the poor and average earners if anything Boris was more Christian than Truss if that was the key criteria. However I do not hold the PM to the same standards of morality as the Archbishop of Canterbury or the Pope who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK
    So much for your ecumenism. What about the Peculiar People, then? The Unitarians? Or the Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)? Just because they aren't run by heads of state.
    As you well they don't have 1 leader at the top on earth, nor does the Pentecostal churches really and the Church of Scotland doesn't even have bishops.

    So none have a figure comparable to the leader of the Conservative Party and PM unlike the Church of England and Roman Catholic Church who do in the A of C and Pope
    Oh, so you don't think Christians count if they don't have a hierarchy under the thumb of the State? Pull the other plonker, chum.
    Well obviously they don't have a leader comparable to the PM do they. If you had bothered to read my early post rather than rant!!!!
    You said "who actually are supposed to represent Christianity in the UK" - leaving the rest out in the cold.
    tbf the two faiths mentioned do represent the big majority of Christians -
    Globally still certainly. Even if Pentecostal churches are growing fastest
    But you said UK, not globally. Can't move

    the goalposts like that if you want to be taken seriously.
    My original point stands, the Archbishop of


    Canterbury and Pope are the only leaders who represent Christianity in the UK.

    If you are a Church without a national or international leader you don't have a leader to represent Christians across the UK, tough
    A lot of churches do not accept that episcopal hierarchy as legitimate, so are intrinsically suspicious of that sort of leadership.
    It’s amazing the Church manages to limp on, given how many silly rules and internecine spats it indulges in.
    Which Church are you talking about? The Roman Catholic, Pentecostal, Presbyterian and Anglican churches are completely separate denominations and churches
This discussion has been closed.