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After sacking her Chancellor the money goes on a 2022 Truss exit – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    The right wing in the US...

    https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1580909013788610560
    My @NBCNews colleagues and I spent the last month finding the root of America's hottest, dumbest urban legend:

    Schools are leaving out litterboxes for kids who identify as furries.

    Despite what Joe Rogan says, it's not true.

    But its origins are grimmer than you'd ever imagine...



    The punchline.
    https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1580916262628380672
    Here's the reality: We reached out to every school rumored to have a litter box.

    We found one: in a "go bucket" for a possible mass shooting (lockdown).

    The rumor is a way to marginalize LGBTQ youth.

    Here's our full story. It was a lot of work. I hope you read it:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hunt has to go. And go now.

    That seems a bit sudden. He was only appointed this afternoon.
    The Hunt has become the Hunted.
    So you're saying it's time for him to pack it in?
    If we cut to the chase, yes.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    "The mission remains the same" == "Nothing has changed" ???
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    You're persistently pretending to act like 2022 Boris was the same as 2019 Boris.

    The very fact they were able to oust him shows his unsuitability - someone who won as big as he did should never have been vulnerable so soon, he should have been untouchable.

    That he was removed shows just how sleazy and incompetent a figure he was - yes he was hated by opponents, but he threw away his own support.
    The Labour lead over the Tories has doubled since Boris was removed and the economy crashed.

    It was always you and the liberal left
    who wanted Boris out as you feared him, the Tory parliamentary party was stupid enough to listen you over a case of after work drinks and a birthday cake. Pathetic!!!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,162
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    O/T but specially for @TSE - French win more battles than British/English (and logically the latter should be disqualified for cheating by getting the Irish, Scottish, Welsh added to their team during the match).

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1580905346021097472?cxt=HHwWgIDU0ajCwPArAAAA

    Oh don’t give me that!

    “The creation of Modern France through expansion goes back to the establishment of a small kingdom in the area around Paris in the late tenth century and was not completed until the incorporation of Nice and Savoy in 1860. The existing "hexagon" was the result of a long series of wars and conquests involving the triumph of French language and culture over what once were autonomous and culturally distinctive communities. The assimilation of Gascons, Savoyards, Occitans, Basques, and others helped to sustain the myth that French overseas expansionism in the nineteenth century, especially to North and West Africa, was a continuation of the same assimilationist project.”
    —George M. Fredrickson, Standford University.
    Ah, quite correct. Both lots cheated, then.
  • This looks very significant, if it's an accurate portrayal of the situation:

    Jordan Schneider @jordanschnyc

    Every American executive and engineer working in China’s semiconductor manufacturing industry resigned yesterday, paralyzing Chinese manufacturing overnight.

    One round of sanctions from Biden did more damage than all four years of performative sanctioning under Trump.


    https://twitter.com/jordanschnyc/status/1580889343417233409

    The whole thread is worth reading.

    Trump and his "Republican" fellow grifters are big-time bull-shit artists, as demonstrated by their strictly rhetorical opposition to their fellow Putinists in Beijing.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289
    edited October 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    "This is beyond a joke."

    Nicola Sturgeon wants a general election to be called, describing Liz Truss as a "lame duck prime minister".

    Live politics updates: https://trib.al/ecixuwi

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1580936743578001408/video/1

    A VoNC would be a good idea from Labour right now. Get every Tory MP to sign up to the Truss government so that they own this abject mess.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591

    "The mission remains the same" == "Nothing has changed" ???

    "This PM will self destruct in..."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    Why are you defending somebody put a known groper in a senior position then lied about it?

    Do you even possess a moral compass?
    Why should Tories care less what a LD voter like you thinks? You even voted LD in 2019 when Boris won a landslide, you wanted him out years before Pincher, who let us not forget lost the whip under Boris anyway
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,162
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    You're persistently pretending to act like 2022 Boris was the same as 2019 Boris.

    The very fact they were able to oust him shows his unsuitability - someone who won as big as he did should never have been vulnerable so soon, he should have been untouchable.

    That he was removed shows just how sleazy and incompetent a figure he was - yes he was hated by opponents, but he threw away his own support.
    The Labour lead over the Tories has doubled since Boris was removed and the economy crashed.

    It was always you and the liberal left
    who wanted Boris out as you feared him, the Tory parliamentary party was stupid enough to listen you over a case of after work drinks and a birthday cake. Pathetic!!!!
    Mr Patterson was a birthday cake? What did he do, jump out of it wearing only a gold lame jockstrap?!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,048
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    CONFIRMED:

    Jeremy Hunt is the new chancellor

    He'll be announced shortly at Liz Truss's press conference https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1580890171213766656

    Don't understand this decision.
    The penny has finally dropped that they need to get the sensible remainers back in to sort out the mess. I am relieved, was dreading it being Redwood or Rees-Mogg. Truss is back-tracking so fast you can see the sparks flying.
    This has absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

    Don't be a dick.
    No need to resort to personal abuse because someone sees things differently.

    I clearly see a correlation between John Major's "bastards" taking over the Tory party/membership and the shambles in which we now find ourselves in.

    You cannot separate Brexit from the politicians that led the campaigns to get us out. I have been convinced from the outset that this is how it would end up. I can barely think of a competent Brexiteer, Gove possibly.

    Take a good hard look at the calibre of what we've has since the "Get Brexit Done" election - Johnson, Patel, Braverman, Rees-Mogg, Kwatang, Dorries, Raab the list goes on and on. Practically every one has proved to be a disaster in office. At least we can be thankful that Farage and Banks weren't eligible for high office.

    On the other side of the coin lots of competent Tory politicians headed for the exits.

    It is no surprise whatsoever that Truss has panicked and gone for one of the few sane senior Tories left to try and save her skin.. It was widely believed that Hunt had no chance in the leadership election because of his Remainer views and yet here we are a few short weeks later and he's promoted to the CoE and favourite to be next leader.

    If Brexit is being discredited (as I believe it is) then it is the Brexiteers themselves that are trashing it. 5 years from now we will be back in the single market at the very least.
    I voted for Brexit and I agree with your analysis. The state of the Tory party now, and the intellectual vacuum within, is a direct consequence of Brexit.

    Basically, if you take this forum as a proxy. You've got Barty and LuckyGuy as the Rees-Mogg fruit loops with Casino being the eccentric but fundamentally sound, Gove.

    Brexit is highly correlated with being a thicky and / or crazy person. I'm more of the latter, I think/hope.
    The problem is that the people you mentioned are so invested in Brexit they are completely blinded to the negative consequences. Fortunately I think the scales are slowly but surely dropping from eyes of many leavers.

    Sooner later people are going to look at the likes of Rees-Mogg et al and say, "hang on a minute aren't these the idiots that promised us the sunlit uplands after Brexit? "
    I am invested in Britain. I felt we could have made EU membership work with politicians and civil servants determined to prioritise the UK's national interests, but we had politicians and civil servants determined to gold plate every piece of idiocy going. Now that we have left, it is true, I see little point in rejoining, and would prefer to build a successful and modestly independent country that only fevered remoaners insist is totally impossible (because reasons).
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,684

    The reversal of the corporation tax cut is as stupid a move by Truss as could have been, especially when combined with keeping the removal on the cap on bankers' bonuses.

    What's been lost in the stereotyping "it's a big bung for businesses" is that plenty of self-employed people - including myself - set up limited companies to reduce the tax burden. Yes, we may pay lower taxes overall but then we don't have paid holidays, sickness cover, access to work supplemented pension schemes or - especially for those in the state sector - defined benefit pensions.

    Now, for those of who of us who take dividends out, we have effectively had 6p in the pound wiped off our dividend payout potential.

    The big companies will be fine, they will pay their accountants to find ways to reduce the tax rate. Small companies - not so much.

    Holiday/sick/pension should be covered by the rate you charge, not subsidised by full taxpayers
    Usual greed, they want their 600 a day and then don't want to pay tax. Pathetic.
  • Scott_xP said:

    The yield on 30-year bonds now indicates markets are more worried, not less, since Liz Truss sacked Kwasi Kwarteng, u-turned on £17bn a year of corporation tax and replaced him with Jeremy Hunt. One can only speculate why. It may be to do with her performance in the presser: https://twitter.com/andyverity/status/1580925884915388416/photo/1

    Or perhaps it undermines the whole infantile theory about why the market turbulence happened in the first place.
    Or perhaps not.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780

    DavidL said:

    Watching that press conference and I've come to a profound realisation.

    Gordon Brown is no longer the worst PM of my lifetime.

    Steady.
    Has she sold our gold at the bottom of the market?
    Has she set up a financial regulatory system which was positively designed to have no one at the wheel when things went wrong?
    Has she had the first runs on UK banks since the 19th century?
    Has she set her party and the country up to have a GE and then run away from it?
    Has she hung on in Downing Street having clearly lost her majority (ok, that one might be arguable)?

    Given time, maybe but she has barely started.
    It took Gordon Brown thirteen years and the crash of Lehmman Bros 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to realise your accusations, some of which are disputable.

    Truss/Kwarteng had barely been in fully functioning (after the late Monarch's departure) office for thirteen hours before they had a) a run on the pound b) crashed the gilts market c) raised mortgage rates to a 25 year high d) achieved a 30 point Labour polling lead and e) returned the mantle of "the Nasty Party" to the Conservatives after decades of detoxification.
    It's a cracking start, I'll give you that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044
    Beth Rigby
    @BethRigby
    ·
    9m
    Cabinet minister tells me "this isn't going to last". Hunt a good choice who'll appeal to the moderate wing of the party, but Truss is not performing "She abandoned one firewall with policy change, then another firewall sacking her chancellor. The only firewall left is her"
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    Right, I've just got back from the school run.
    Anyone else resigned/sacked yet?
    Who is the CoE?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    Chris said:

    GIN1138 said:

    CD13 said:

    I have time for Vicky Young, but even she was struggling to explain the Truss performance. Being PM isn't for everyone, and intellgence isn't essential but self-awareness is.

    Boris had arrogance on his side, but I'm not sure what Liz has.

    I do feel sorry for her because it must but awful for someone with so many "limitations" to become Prime Minister and then have it all implode within a few days and have the entire country pointing and laughing at you.

    It's a shame her husband or daughters didn't take her to one side at the start and say sorry, but please don't so this. You're an amazing person but you just aren't a Prime Minister.
    Or even "You're clueless. What on earth makes you think you could be prime minister? Idiot!"
    Well... bluntly... yes lol!
  • PJHPJH Posts: 443
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from a 20 minute walk. Has she quit yet?

    I'm going against the grain, I think she's done enough to be a puppet PM until the new year.
    Her best, possibly only, chance is that the Tory party is so split into different camps that finding a replacement that people could coalesce on is going to be difficult.

    There is, in my view, a pretty compelling argument that the government's economic policy is now Rishi's policy and that he should get a chance to implement it, just as she and Kwarteng got a chance to implement hers.
    That's the real challenge - there's at least two groups of Brexiteers, who don't really like each other: the current Singapore-on-Thames set still just about hanging on to the steering wheel, and the anti-immigration set such as (ironically) Braverman and Patel.

    Then there's the of red wallers who have some vestigial loyalty to Johnson who perhaps float between the two but aren't loyal to either.

    Add to that the remnants of the pragmatic ex-remainer group who have accepted Brexit, but who will not be trusted by either of the hard Brexiter groups, and the people who backed Sunak, who are hated for bringing down Johnson.

    So there's about 5 groups and I can't see how they can even get any 3 to coalesce around a single candidate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    Nigelb said:

    "The mission remains the same" == "Nothing has changed" ???

    "This PM will self destruct in..."
    Too late, my time has come
    Sends shivers down my spine
    Body's aching all the time
    Goodbye everybody, I've got to go
    Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth
  • Icarus said:

    Just laid Truss to be out this year at 1.78. Still far greener if she goes this year but now green either way.

    That performance she gave just now had all the hallmarks of someone who knows they do not have much longer in the job but have to go through the motions until the moment of departure comes.

    It was perfunctory, uninformative, and bland. The writing is on the wall, and she knows it.

    Definitely gone by the end of the year, Morris; maybe even by the end of next week.
    Many thought that, despite it being the constitutional position, allowing the Conservative Party to choose the PM somehow wasn't right. Allowing to them (even if just the MPs this time) to have another go because they made a mess last time will be even more unacceptable.
    You think that will stop them, Icarus?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780

    Right, I've just got back from the school run.
    Anyone else resigned/sacked yet?
    Who is the CoE?

    *checks watch*
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591

    Right, I've just got back from the school run.
    Anyone else resigned/sacked yet?
    Who is the CoE?

    You're It.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,842
    Chope thinks the Tories are "a laughing stock".
    Janet Yellen must be pleased she completely wasted her time meeting Kwarteng yesterday when she could have been talking to serious people
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    https://www.politicos.co.uk/products/out-of-the-blue-the-inside-story-of-liz-truss-and-her-astonishing-rise-to-power-by-harry-cole-james-heale-coming-8-december

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    Liz Truss’s journey from schoolgirl revolutionary to Britain’s new Prime Minister.

    She is the longest-serving member of the Cabinet, but Britain’s new Prime Minister is virtually unknown to millions of voters. Written off, mocked and undermined by even her closest colleagues, Liz Truss has slowly but determinedly taken over 10 Downing Street.

    With unrivalled access and insight, award-winning political journalists Harry Cole and James Heale chart the rise of the geeky teenage Lib Dem who transformed into the queen of the Brexiteers. They track her journey through some of the most powerful jobs in Cabinet and an unexpected rebranding from wonkish Tory loyalist to free-wheeling Instagram star.

    For the first time, Liz’s closest friends and supporters, as well as her worst critics and rivals, paint the true picture of Britain’s third female Prime Minister.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    No, it really wasn’t.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    You're persistently pretending to act like 2022 Boris was the same as 2019 Boris.

    The very fact they were able to oust him shows his unsuitability - someone who won as big as he did should never have been vulnerable so soon, he should have been untouchable.

    That he was removed shows just how sleazy and incompetent a figure he was - yes he was hated by opponents, but he threw away his own support.
    The Labour lead over the Tories has doubled since Boris was removed and the economy crashed.

    It was always you and the liberal left
    who wanted Boris out as you feared him, the Tory parliamentary party was stupid enough to listen you over a case of after work drinks and a birthday cake. Pathetic!!!!
    Does your self proclaimed Christianity extend one miilimetre beyond the pleasure of interfering in the decisions of pregnant women who want to be not pregnant? Have you any moral standards at all?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    O/T but specially for @TSE - French win more battles than British/English (and logically the latter should be disqualified for cheating by getting the Irish, Scottish, Welsh added to their team during the match).

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1580905346021097472?cxt=HHwWgIDU0ajCwPArAAAA

    Oh don’t give me that!

    “The creation of Modern France through expansion goes back to the establishment of a small kingdom in the area around Paris in the late tenth century and was not completed until the incorporation of Nice and Savoy in 1860. The existing "hexagon" was the result of a long series of wars and conquests involving the triumph of French language and culture over what once were autonomous and culturally distinctive communities. The assimilation of Gascons, Savoyards, Occitans, Basques, and others helped to sustain the myth that French overseas expansionism in the nineteenth century, especially to North and West Africa, was a continuation of the same assimilationist project.”
    —George M. Fredrickson, Standford University.
    Chinese pull that one too.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    If the change is needed, the 1922 need to facilitate conditions under which it can happen and give the parliamentarian market confidence to act if feels it needs to do so.

    That can only be in the form of rule changes, but ones with an eye to the longer term, not just for today. Such as one or more of (brainstorming):

    - Removing or seriously reducing the 1 year
    protection (maybe 3 months?)
    - MPs each get two votes on the candidates to put forward for PM
    - Conclave type system for putting candidates forward with 2/3 approval needed for each candidate
    - Member vote in government replaced by constituency association meetings and backing.
    - An elected position of a genuine Heir-Apparent Deputy to be voted on an annual basis, negating the need for leadership elections.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,726
    Afternoon all!
    Myself and my wife have been wandering around Ipswich hospital all day, plus of course the hours drive to and from.
    Gather there's some big news!
    As the guy driving us home, taxi driver called Mohammed, said this country seems in a dreadful mess!
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Come on @Heathener you say you have the post. In front of you. So just cut and paste. Takes seconds. And link, please.

    Surprised to see you so animated about being accused of saying something a bit silly.
    I’m travelling around the world for free. Again. Always makes me feisty

    But, really, PB-era can’t go around accusing others of lying and saying “I have the proof right here” and then not actually provide the proof

    We have PB standards and it has always been up to me, in the end, to uphold them

    @heathener says she has the exact quote I made, unironically calling liz truss the “Tory saviour, a diamond in the rough” and much else. So all she has to is paste it and link it
    Why does she have to? Fuck all will happen if she doesn't.
    No, it's the only way to shut him up.
    Could have taken up the best part of the next half dozen threads otherwise.
    Leon is Heathener ffs. The whole thing is just him having a bizarre onanistic chat with himself. It's obviously a boring flight.
    This keeps coming up - there is no way that Leon is Heathener.
    There bloody is way, he as good as admitted it before her last long absence.
    Like I say, he hints/admits it because it flatters to be thought of as being capable of pulling that off.

    It's a No. Trust me.
    I thought Leon was simply SeanT (and a few others).
    I know he brought both in on the day of the Queen's funeral. Didn't he get into a fight with himself on that day?
  • The reversal of the corporation tax cut is as stupid a move by Truss as could have been, especially when combined with keeping the removal on the cap on bankers' bonuses.

    What's been lost in the stereotyping "it's a big bung for businesses" is that plenty of self-employed people - including myself - set up limited companies to reduce the tax burden. Yes, we may pay lower taxes overall but then we don't have paid holidays, sickness cover, access to work supplemented pension schemes or - especially for those in the state sector - defined benefit pensions.

    Now, for those of who of us who take dividends out, we have effectively had 6p in the pound wiped off our dividend payout potential.

    The big companies will be fine, they will pay their accountants to find ways to reduce the tax rate. Small companies - not so much.

    Holiday/sick/pension should be covered by the rate you charge, not subsidised by full taxpayers
    Isnt the rise in CT just for companies with profits over £50k as well? And only fully implemented on those over £250k.

    Self employed people are either earning plenty or not impacted.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044

    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,463

    Scott_xP said:

    "This is beyond a joke."

    Nicola Sturgeon wants a general election to be called, describing Liz Truss as a "lame duck prime minister".

    Live politics updates: https://trib.al/ecixuwi

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1580936743578001408/video/1

    A VoNC would be a good idea from Labour right now. Get every Tory MP to sign up to the Truss government so that they own this abject mess.
    I don't agree. A VONC would be poor politics from Starmer. No Tory MP would vote with Labour, as it would mean a GE and they're not going to vote to lose their jobs.

    Starmer should keep on exactly as he is: preparing Labour for government, and letting the Tories bring about their own destruction with just the occasional nudge from him when they need a bit more help - which is rarely.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,289
    Nigelb said:
    Why was it landing downwind?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    The economic problems have two major proximate causes - Russia's invasion of Ukraine (the Tory response being supported by all parties) and lockdown (the Tory response being opposed by all parties only for not being big enough).
    That is fair until the point we arrive at the OBS- free- mini-non-budget-economic-statement. That was a fiasco entirely of Kwarteng's making. It exacebated an already dangerous situation, and has continued so to do.
    Your economic “dangerous situation” not even a bit bigged up by you following the over the top media coverage of it, in your opinion?

    In my opinion, if the polls had hardly moved, hardly dropped, little political pressure on Truss from her own party, Kwarteng would still be there. Tell me I’m wrong.

    It’s the poll movement driving this, the public alienation from the bad politics of the mini budget, not a economic volcano to be appeased.

    The real pressure on UK from the markets has not even begun yet.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,780
    DougSeal said:

    https://www.politicos.co.uk/products/out-of-the-blue-the-inside-story-of-liz-truss-and-her-astonishing-rise-to-power-by-harry-cole-james-heale-coming-8-december

    “Out of the Blue: The inside story of Liz Truss and her astonishing rise to power by Harry Cole & James Heale

    COMING 8 DECEMBER

    £20.00

    Hardback
    HarperCollins
    8 December 2022

    Liz Truss’s journey from schoolgirl revolutionary to Britain’s new Prime Minister.

    She is the longest-serving member of the Cabinet, but Britain’s new Prime Minister is virtually unknown to millions of voters. Written off, mocked and undermined by even her closest colleagues, Liz Truss has slowly but determinedly taken over 10 Downing Street.

    With unrivalled access and insight, award-winning political journalists Harry Cole and James Heale chart the rise of the geeky teenage Lib Dem who transformed into the queen of the Brexiteers. They track her journey through some of the most powerful jobs in Cabinet and an unexpected rebranding from wonkish Tory loyalist to free-wheeling Instagram star.

    For the first time, Liz’s closest friends and supporters, as well as her worst critics and rivals, paint the true picture of Britain’s third female Prime Minister.

    I feel a second edition coming along already.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hunt has to go. And go now.

    That seems a bit sudden. He was only appointed this afternoon.
    The Hunt has become the Hunted.
    So you're saying it's time for him to pack it in?
    Hunt’s fox is already shot.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,409
    Just caught up with The Truss' latest piece of performance art.

    I guess it boils down to "Nothing has Changed. Nothing. Has. Changed."

  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,463
    Wouldn't it be lovely if there were a backbench Tory MP called Buggins, who could be the next CotE?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Hunt has to go. And go now.

    That seems a bit sudden. He was only appointed this afternoon.
    The Hunt has become the Hunted.
    So you're saying it's time for him to pack it in?
    Hunt’s fox is already shot.
    Here today, Quorn tomorrow.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 886
    DavidL said:

    DougSeal said:

    https://www.politicos.co.uk/products/out-of-the-blue-the-inside-story-of-liz-truss-and-her-astonishing-rise-to-power-by-harry-cole-james-heale-coming-8-december

    “Out of the Blue: The inside story of Liz Truss and her astonishing rise to power by Harry Cole & James Heale

    COMING 8 DECEMBER

    £20.00

    Hardback
    HarperCollins
    8 December 2022

    Liz Truss’s journey from schoolgirl revolutionary to Britain’s new Prime Minister.

    She is the longest-serving member of the Cabinet, but Britain’s new Prime Minister is virtually unknown to millions of voters. Written off, mocked and undermined by even her closest colleagues, Liz Truss has slowly but determinedly taken over 10 Downing Street.

    With unrivalled access and insight, award-winning political journalists Harry Cole and James Heale chart the rise of the geeky teenage Lib Dem who transformed into the queen of the Brexiteers. They track her journey through some of the most powerful jobs in Cabinet and an unexpected rebranding from wonkish Tory loyalist to free-wheeling Instagram star.

    For the first time, Liz’s closest friends and supporters, as well as her worst critics and rivals, paint the true picture of Britain’s third female Prime Minister.

    I feel a second edition coming along already.
    With sub title -"Back to the Blue" ?
  • pingping Posts: 3,724


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    We’ll see what Monday brings…
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678

    DavidL said:

    Watching that press conference and I've come to a profound realisation.

    Gordon Brown is no longer the worst PM of my lifetime.

    Steady.
    Has she sold our gold at the bottom of the market?
    Has she set up a financial regulatory system which was positively designed to have no one at the wheel when things went wrong?
    Has she had the first runs on UK banks since the 19th century?
    Has she set her party and the country up to have a GE and then run away from it?
    Has she hung on in Downing Street having clearly lost her majority (ok, that one might be arguable)?

    Given time, maybe but she has barely started.
    It took Gordon Brown thirteen years and the crash of Lehmman Bros 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to realise your accusations, some of which are disputable.

    Truss/Kwarteng had barely been in fully functioning (after the late Monarch's departure) office for thirteen hours before they had a) a run on the pound b) crashed the gilts market c) raised mortgage rates to a 25 year high d) achieved a 30 point Labour polling lead and e) returned the mantle of "the Nasty Party" to the Conservatives after decades of detoxification.
    Truss might interestingly be the shortest PM ever, but she does have a fairly unusual distinction of also being one of the few PMs (certainly post war) to serve two monarchs.

    That'll be an interesting trivia question a few decades from now.

    On topic, although I didn't want Truss, it was not for me to decide (not being a Conservative member).
    I think however, the idea that the members can and should be excluded from the vote going forward is a really really bad idea.
    What is the point of being a Conservative party member therefore?

    The rules should probably be different, perhaps the idea that MPs put themselves forward (with a base level of support) who are then voted on by the members with the (say) top three going to MP ballot, but to exclude them completely isn't going to sit well with members, or anyone who respects democracy.

    Of course, the better option would be to force a new PM to call a GE within X months of taking office, to confirm the party's choice by the voters (or otherwise, as the case may be). Still think Truss should've done that, but too late now.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1580902437988495369

    @Nigel_Farage
    Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.

    This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.

    Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.

    A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098
    edited October 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    The yield on 30-year bonds now indicates markets are more worried, not less, since Liz Truss sacked Kwasi Kwarteng, u-turned on £17bn a year of corporation tax and replaced him with Jeremy Hunt. One can only speculate why. It may be to do with her performance in the presser: https://twitter.com/andyverity/status/1580925884915388416/photo/1

    Or perhaps it undermines the whole infantile theory about why the market turbulence happened in the first place.
    It may do but you shouldn't spring a radical change of policy without preparing the ground and building support first. Particularly a change that is electorally unpopular.
    I think the problem may be that she’d spent months doing what politicians do during a GE - travelling the country, making her pitch - following which members voted and she got the job. So she imagined she had a mandate for pushing ahead with her changes when in reality there is an ocean between a real election victory and a grudging preference expressed by a tiny number of economically inactive geriatrics.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,094
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    Why are you defending somebody put a known groper in a senior position then lied about it?

    Do you even possess a moral compass?
    Why should Tories care less what a LD voter like you thinks? You even voted LD in 2019 when Boris won a landslide, you wanted him out years before Pincher, who let us not forget lost the whip under Boris anyway
    I don't think that's a fair response.

    It's not about his opinion; he is asking you to reflect on whether your values allow you to be comfortable with Boris now you are aware of his flaws.

    Clearly he wouldn't want Johnson either way.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Jeremy Hunt is now the de facto prime minister

    The new chancellor will be running the show, and Truss will be a sort of ‘PRINO’ – prime minister in name only

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-hunt-chancellor-liz-truss-new-prime-minister-b2202928.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591

    Nigelb said:
    Why was it landing downwind?
    You're asking the wrong person.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,678
    Nigelb said:

    Right, I've just got back from the school run.
    Anyone else resigned/sacked yet?
    Who is the CoE?

    You're It.
    Ahh shit. I'm not very good with numbers.
    I'm only an accountant after all.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,780
    edited October 2022

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1580902437988495369

    @Nigel_Farage
    Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.

    This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.

    Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.

    A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.

    It's amazing how people suddenly find moral reasons for changes that benefit them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Scott_xP said:

    "This is beyond a joke."

    Nicola Sturgeon wants a general election to be called, describing Liz Truss as a "lame duck prime minister".

    Live politics updates: https://trib.al/ecixuwi

    📺 Sky 501, Virgin 602, Freeview 233 and YouTube https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1580936743578001408/video/1

    I think she'd settle for lame duck
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,409
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    You're persistently pretending to act like 2022 Boris was the same as 2019 Boris.

    The very fact they were able to oust him shows his unsuitability - someone who won as big as he did should never have been vulnerable so soon, he should have been untouchable.

    That he was removed shows just how sleazy and incompetent a figure he was - yes he was hated by opponents, but he threw away his own support.
    The Labour lead over the Tories has doubled since Boris was removed and the economy crashed.

    It was always you and the liberal left
    who wanted Boris out as you feared him, the Tory parliamentary party was stupid enough to listen you over a case of after work drinks and a birthday cake. Pathetic!!!!
    We wanted him out because he was a lying shit, totally unfit for office and an embarrassment for the country.

    The fact that your party is stupid enough to replace him with Truss is not the fault of the Labour Party.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited October 2022


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    That’s a lot. In theory just the existence of the scheme was supposed to deter the market.

    A Tory MP boasting on TV couple of days ago that it’s just £2bn spent.

    The government is supposed to underwrite pension funds, not the bank? What do we think the nigh on TWENTY BILLION has bought? Have naughty people, overly greedy for many years just received an I’ll deserved bail out and get out of jail free card at the UK tax payers expense?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    This looks very significant, if it's an accurate portrayal of the situation:

    Jordan Schneider @jordanschnyc

    Every American executive and engineer working in China’s semiconductor manufacturing industry resigned yesterday, paralyzing Chinese manufacturing overnight.

    One round of sanctions from Biden did more damage than all four years of performative sanctioning under Trump.


    https://twitter.com/jordanschnyc/status/1580889343417233409

    The whole thread is worth reading.

    Trump and his "Republican" fellow grifters are big-time bull-shit artists, as demonstrated by their strictly rhetorical opposition to their fellow Putinists in Beijing.
    Bit how do you really feel about them?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,775
    .

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back from a 20 minute walk. Has she quit yet?

    I'm going against the grain, I think she's done enough to be a puppet PM until the new year.
    It's very volatile, and therefore very hard to read, but I tend to agree. All the drawbacks of MPs acting to get rid of her still apply, and it is still the case that there's no compelling alternative. A zombie government staggering on, with Hunt effectively running it on a caretaker basis, looks quite likely to me. But who knows?
    At some point Tory MPs have to face the question of who leads them into the next election. But if Hunt can convince that he'll keep the ship of state afloat for the next few months then the urgency of replacing Truss disappears, and instead making sure your favoured candidate takes over rises in importance.

    That makes it harder for them to settle on a unity candidate, though I guess that if Hunt does bring some order the obvious solution is to make the de facto PM the de jure PM.

    And yet. MPs are clearly not happy. They may be in a reckless mood.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    DavidL said:

    Watching that press conference and I've come to a profound realisation.

    Gordon Brown is no longer the worst PM of my lifetime.

    Steady.
    Has she sold our gold at the bottom of the market?
    Has she set up a financial regulatory system which was positively designed to have no one at the wheel when things went wrong?
    Has she had the first runs on UK banks since the 19th century?
    Has she set her party and the country up to have a GE and then run away from it?
    Has she hung on in Downing Street having clearly lost her majority (ok, that one might be arguable)?

    Given time, maybe but she has barely started.
    It took Gordon Brown thirteen years and the crash of Lehmman Bros 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to realise your accusations, some of which are disputable.

    Truss/Kwarteng had barely been in fully functioning (after the late Monarch's departure) office for thirteen hours before they had a) a run on the pound b) crashed the gilts market c) raised mortgage rates to a 25 year high d) achieved a 30 point Labour polling lead and e) returned the mantle of "the Nasty Party" to the Conservatives after decades of detoxification.
    Truss might interestingly be the shortest PM ever, but she does have a fairly unusual distinction of also being one of the few PMs (certainly post war) to serve two monarchs.

    That'll be an interesting trivia question a few decades from now.

    On topic, although I didn't want Truss, it was not for me to decide (not being a Conservative member).
    I think however, the idea that the members can and should be excluded from the vote going forward is a really really bad idea.
    What is the point of being a Conservative party member therefore?

    The rules should probably be different, perhaps the idea that MPs put themselves forward (with a base level of support) who are then voted on by the members with the (say) top three going to MP ballot, but to exclude them completely isn't going to sit well with members, or anyone who respects democracy.

    Of course, the better option would be to force a new PM to call a GE within X months of taking office, to confirm the party's choice by the voters (or otherwise, as the case may be). Still think Truss should've done that, but too late now.
    You do realise membership voting was introduced (and later regretted and deprecated) by William Hague, himself elected by MPs only? A lorra people saw a point in being party members prior to that (membership has halved from there).

    £25 shouldn't buy you a vote.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059

    Afternoon all!
    Myself and my wife have been wandering around Ipswich hospital all day, plus of course the hours drive to and from.
    Gather there's some big news!
    As the guy driving us home, taxi driver called Mohammed, said this country seems in a dreadful mess!

    Hope it was a successful visit nonetheless
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591

    Just caught up with The Truss' latest piece of performance art.

    I guess it boils down to "Nothing has Changed. Nothing. Has. Changed."

    Yes, just listened, too.

    "....Er... Robert...Pest...On..." was the highlight for me.
  • pingping Posts: 3,724


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    We’ll see what Monday brings…


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    That’s a lot. In theory just the existence of the scheme was supposed to deter the market.

    A Tory MP boasting on TV couple of days ago that it’s just £2bn spent.

    The government is supposed to underwrite pension funds, not the bank? What do we think the nigh on TWENTY BILLION has bought? Have naughty people, overly greedy for many years just received an I’ll deserved bail out at the UK tax payers expense?
    This will be top of Hunts intray.

    Does the government bail out DB pensions?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Has Hunt’s appointment appeased the Tory moderates? Here’s an assessment from one snr moderate source: https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1580943671708778496/photo/1


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,633
    DougSeal said:

    Afternoon all!
    Myself and my wife have been wandering around Ipswich hospital all day, plus of course the hours drive to and from.
    Gather there's some big news!
    As the guy driving us home, taxi driver called Mohammed, said this country seems in a dreadful mess!

    Hope it was a successful visit nonetheless
    Was it a black cab driver?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,162

    Nigelb said:
    Why was it landing downwind?
    Just as well the cargo wasn't the self-loading kind. I wouldn't want to clean the seats after that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    DavidL said:

    Watching that press conference and I've come to a profound realisation.

    Gordon Brown is no longer the worst PM of my lifetime.

    Steady.
    Has she sold our gold at the bottom of the market?
    Has she set up a financial regulatory system which was positively designed to have no one at the wheel when things went wrong?
    Has she had the first runs on UK banks since the 19th century?
    Has she set her party and the country up to have a GE and then run away from it?
    Has she hung on in Downing Street having clearly lost her majority (ok, that one might be arguable)?

    Given time, maybe but she has barely started.
    It took Gordon Brown thirteen years and the crash of Lehmman Bros 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to realise your accusations, some of which are disputable.

    Truss/Kwarteng had barely been in fully functioning (after the late Monarch's departure) office for thirteen hours before they had a) a run on the pound b) crashed the gilts market c) raised mortgage rates to a 25 year high d) achieved a 30 point Labour polling lead and e) returned the mantle of "the Nasty Party" to the Conservatives after decades of detoxification.
    Truss might interestingly be the shortest PM ever, but she does have a fairly unusual distinction of also being one of the few PMs (certainly post war) to serve two monarchs.

    That'll be an interesting trivia question a few decades from now.

    On topic, although I didn't want Truss, it was not for me to decide (not being a Conservative member).
    I think however, the idea that the members can and should be excluded from the vote going forward is a really really bad idea.
    What is the point of being a Conservative party member therefore?

    The rules should probably be different, perhaps the idea that MPs put themselves forward (with a base level of support) who are then voted on by the members with the (say) top three going to MP ballot, but to exclude them completely isn't going to sit well with members, or anyone who respects democracy.

    Of course, the better option would be to force a new PM to call a GE within X months of taking office, to confirm the party's choice by the voters (or otherwise, as the case may be). Still think Truss should've done that, but too late now.
    What was the point of being a party member before they were able to vote for party leader? It wasn't that long ago.

    It might make sense in a time with mass memberships, but that time is not now, so all it does it make a bunch of weirdos feel entitled. It also gives opportunity for people to go to war with their own MPs, by claiming member backing is more important, as HYUFD and Rees-Mogg claim.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    rcs1000 said:

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1580902437988495369

    @Nigel_Farage
    Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.

    This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.

    Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.

    A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.

    It's amazing how people suddenly find moral reasons for changes that benefit them.
    Is this the same Farage hailing the brilliant budget? Praising the best Conservative budget since the mid eighties. 🥹
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098

    Afternoon all!
    Myself and my wife have been wandering around Ipswich hospital all day, plus of course the hours drive to and from.
    Gather there's some big news!
    As the guy driving us home, taxi driver called Mohammed, said this country seems in a dreadful mess!

    You should have asked whether he was from Albania before you got in!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,469
    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    The economic problems have two major proximate causes - Russia's invasion of Ukraine (the Tory response being supported by all parties) and lockdown (the Tory response being opposed by all parties only for not being big enough).
    I'm not talking about the economic problems. At no point did I mention them in what I posted. Both were/are very challenging and I doubt anyone else would have been any better at handling them.

    However they are not the cause of this Govts issues (although they don't help). Boris's opportunistic grasping of the Brexit debacle and subsequent behaviour is what has destroyed this Govt. They were plummeting the depths before he finally and rightly got removed and it has been downhill ever since as a consequence.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    👀

    Will new Chancellor Jeremy Hunt prioritise increasing aid spending from 0.5pc to 0.7pc - or cutting taxes?

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1580940133527736320
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    That’s a lot. In theory just the existence of the scheme was supposed to deter the market.

    A Tory MP boasting on TV couple of days ago that it’s just £2bn spent.

    The government is supposed to underwrite pension funds, not the bank? What do we think the nigh on TWENTY BILLION has bought? Have naughty people, overly greedy for many years just received an I’ll deserved bail out and get out of jail free card at the UK tax payers expense?
    The Bank has bought gilts off the pension funds because they need liquidity v quickly. The £20b has bought government ious which it can sell back to the market. One day. Ho hum.


  • One thing Hunt has been very very consistent on is the strong support for high speed rail, often referring to his experiences on the bullet trains in Japan and how desirable it would be to have a similar service in this country.

    Wonder if he lasts long enough to have any influence whatsoever if he'll work to re-instate some of the cuts to NPR and HS2 ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,044

    Jeremy Hunt is now the de facto prime minister

    The new chancellor will be running the show, and Truss will be a sort of ‘PRINO’ – prime minister in name only

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-hunt-chancellor-liz-truss-new-prime-minister-b2202928.html

    It will certainly be his budget and not hers. But this is academic because she will be announcing her resignation on Monday lunchtime.

  • Scott_xP said:

    👀

    Will new Chancellor Jeremy Hunt prioritise increasing aid spending from 0.5pc to 0.7pc - or cutting taxes?

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1580940133527736320

    What was that about don't interrupt your enemies when they are making mistakes?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Jeremy Hunt is now the de facto prime minister

    The new chancellor will be running the show, and Truss will be a sort of ‘PRINO’ – prime minister in name only

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-hunt-chancellor-liz-truss-new-prime-minister-b2202928.html

    I Don’t believe it. I see him as a harmless chicken in a cabinet room of foxes.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098
    edited October 2022
    Ishmael_Z said:

    DavidL said:

    Watching that press conference and I've come to a profound realisation.

    Gordon Brown is no longer the worst PM of my lifetime.

    Steady.
    Has she sold our gold at the bottom of the market?
    Has she set up a financial regulatory system which was positively designed to have no one at the wheel when things went wrong?
    Has she had the first runs on UK banks since the 19th century?
    Has she set her party and the country up to have a GE and then run away from it?
    Has she hung on in Downing Street having clearly lost her majority (ok, that one might be arguable)?

    Given time, maybe but she has barely started.
    It took Gordon Brown thirteen years and the crash of Lehmman Bros 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to realise your accusations, some of which are disputable.

    Truss/Kwarteng had barely been in fully functioning (after the late Monarch's departure) office for thirteen hours before they had a) a run on the pound b) crashed the gilts market c) raised mortgage rates to a 25 year high d) achieved a 30 point Labour polling lead and e) returned the mantle of "the Nasty Party" to the Conservatives after decades of detoxification.
    Truss might interestingly be the shortest PM ever, but she does have a fairly unusual distinction of also being one of the few PMs (certainly post war) to serve two monarchs.

    That'll be an interesting trivia question a few decades from now.

    On topic, although I didn't want Truss, it was not for me to decide (not being a Conservative member).
    I think however, the idea that the members can and should be excluded from the vote going forward is a really really bad idea.
    What is the point of being a Conservative party member therefore?

    The rules should probably be different, perhaps the idea that MPs put themselves forward (with a base level of support) who are then voted on by the members with the (say) top three going to MP ballot, but to exclude them completely isn't going to sit well with members, or anyone who respects democracy.

    Of course, the better option would be to force a new PM to call a GE within X months of taking office, to confirm the party's choice by the voters (or otherwise, as the case may be). Still think Truss should've done that, but too late now.
    You do realise membership voting was introduced (and later regretted and deprecated) by William Hague, himself elected by MPs only? A lorra people saw a point in being party members prior to that (membership has halved from there).

    £25 shouldn't buy you a vote.
    Indeed - you should get a whole bundle of votes for that, given that voting for Corbyn only cost £3
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    HYUFD said:

    Can’t we make rules/ tweaks to ensure that the membership don’t ever get to choose a PM again. The Truss case is such a slam dunk

    But don't forget 113 (virtually 1/3) of Tory MPs voted for her rather than Sunak or Mordaunt - they have some responsibility too
    You also cannot stop the membership electing a PM from opposition even if you can from government.

    Blair, Cameron and Johnson were all elected by party members and all won general elections
    Well duh, in a two party system with both parties having member-elected leaders, how could there not be member-elected general election winners?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    This looks very significant, if it's an accurate portrayal of the situation:

    Jordan Schneider @jordanschnyc

    Every American executive and engineer working in China’s semiconductor manufacturing industry resigned yesterday, paralyzing Chinese manufacturing overnight.

    One round of sanctions from Biden did more damage than all four years of performative sanctioning under Trump.


    https://twitter.com/jordanschnyc/status/1580889343417233409

    The whole thread is worth reading.

    Trump and his "Republican" fellow grifters are big-time bull-shit artists, as demonstrated by their strictly rhetorical opposition to their fellow Putinists in Beijing.
    If you label everyone you don't like a "Putinist", it loses any analytical value.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Has Hunt’s appointment appeased the Tory moderates? Here’s an assessment from one snr moderate source: https://twitter.com/hoffman_noa/status/1580943671708778496/photo/1


    They really are obsessed with cakes!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,162

    One thing Hunt has been very very consistent on is the strong support for high speed rail, often referring to his experiences on the bullet trains in Japan and how desirable it would be to have a similar service in this country.

    Wonder if he lasts long enough to have any influence whatsoever if he'll work to re-instate some of the cuts to NPR and HS2 ?

    At the moment I find I am getting vibes more of Mr Huskisson when I think of Tories and new railways.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,098
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Watching that press conference and I've come to a profound realisation.

    Gordon Brown is no longer the worst PM of my lifetime.

    Steady.
    Has she sold our gold at the bottom of the market?
    Has she set up a financial regulatory system which was positively designed to have no one at the wheel when things went wrong?
    Has she had the first runs on UK banks since the 19th century?
    Has she set her party and the country up to have a GE and then run away from it?
    Has she hung on in Downing Street having clearly lost her majority (ok, that one might be arguable)?

    Given time, maybe but she has barely started.
    It took Gordon Brown thirteen years and the crash of Lehmman Bros 3,500 miles across the Atlantic to realise your accusations, some of which are disputable.

    Truss/Kwarteng had barely been in fully functioning (after the late Monarch's departure) office for thirteen hours before they had a) a run on the pound b) crashed the gilts market c) raised mortgage rates to a 25 year high d) achieved a 30 point Labour polling lead and e) returned the mantle of "the Nasty Party" to the Conservatives after decades of detoxification.
    Truss might interestingly be the shortest PM ever, but she does have a fairly unusual distinction of also being one of the few PMs (certainly post war) to serve two monarchs.

    That'll be an interesting trivia question a few decades from now.

    On topic, although I didn't want Truss, it was not for me to decide (not being a Conservative member).
    I think however, the idea that the members can and should be excluded from the vote going forward is a really really bad idea.
    What is the point of being a Conservative party member therefore?

    The rules should probably be different, perhaps the idea that MPs put themselves forward (with a base level of support) who are then voted on by the members with the (say) top three going to MP ballot, but to exclude them completely isn't going to sit well with members, or anyone who respects democracy.

    Of course, the better option would be to force a new PM to call a GE within X months of taking office, to confirm the party's choice by the voters (or otherwise, as the case may be). Still think Truss should've done that, but too late now.
    What was the point of being a party member before they were able to vote for party leader? It wasn't that long ago.

    Delivering leaflets gets you out of the house, and moving more?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Asked a former cabinet minister about PM's prospects. They text back: "As we both know, this is only going to end one way"
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1580945609447460864
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    ping said:


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    We’ll see what Monday brings…


    Paul Kelso
    @pkelso
    ·
    19m
    New:
    @bankofengland
    emergency gilt buying scheme concludes having spent £19.3bn of the £65bn set aside, £1.5bn of it today

    That’s a lot. In theory just the existence of the scheme was supposed to deter the market.

    A Tory MP boasting on TV couple of days ago that it’s just £2bn spent.

    The government is supposed to underwrite pension funds, not the bank? What do we think the nigh on TWENTY BILLION has bought? Have naughty people, overly greedy for many years just received an I’ll deserved bail out at the UK tax payers expense?
    This will be top of Hunts intray.

    Does the government bail out DB pensions?
    Does the D in DB stand for dodgy?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    Why are you defending somebody put a known groper in a senior position then lied about it?

    Do you even possess a moral compass?
    Why should Tories care less what a LD voter like you thinks?...
    Since you're down to about 20% of voters, perhaps you should be less picky ?
    He still voted LD in 2019 when Boris won 43%
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    edited October 2022
    If Truss goes I’m not sure a successor will pull Hunt out of the Treasury (unless he is the successor). 5 chancellors in a year would be beyond ridiculous. Does create a slight hiccup in the idea of the Rishi/Penny dream team.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    You're persistently pretending to act like 2022 Boris was the same as 2019 Boris.

    The very fact they were able to oust him shows his unsuitability - someone who won as big as he did should never have been vulnerable so soon, he should have been untouchable.

    That he was removed shows just how sleazy and incompetent a figure he was - yes he was hated by opponents, but he threw away his own support.
    The Labour lead over the Tories has doubled since Boris was removed and the economy crashed.

    It was always you and the liberal left
    who wanted Boris out as you feared him, the Tory parliamentary party was stupid enough to listen you over a case of after work drinks and a birthday cake. Pathetic!!!!
    We wanted him out because he was a lying shit, totally unfit for office and an embarrassment for the country.

    The fact that your party is stupid enough to replace him with Truss is not the fault of the Labour Party.
    You wanted him out because he won the biggest Tory victory over you since Thatcher. No other alternative Conservative leader threatened the liberal left like Boris did
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    edited October 2022
    A week is long time in politics – The Cons grab a couple of points from Reform & a couple of points from Labour – but there's still a formidable 21 point gap (Field 13-14 Oct)

    Con: 28% (+4 from 6-7 Oct)
    Lab: 49% (-2)
    Lib Dem 10% (0)
    Green 5%(0)
    Reform UK:4%(-2)
    SNP 3% (0)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1580911185620189185
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    .
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    Why are you defending somebody put a known groper in a senior position then lied about it?

    Do you even possess a moral compass?
    Why should Tories care less what a LD voter like you thinks?...
    Since you're down to about 20% of voters, perhaps you should be less picky ?
    He still voted LD in 2019 when Boris won 43%
    Politicians are supposed to court the electorate, not hold grudges against it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,719

    https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1580902437988495369

    @Nigel_Farage
    Remainer Jeremy Hunt is the new Chancellor, joining forces with our Remainer PM.

    This Conservative party has no authority, no decency and has failed our country.

    Brexit is not complete, open border immigration continues and lies are told at every election. The Conservative party needs replacing.

    A new proportional voting system will kill @Conservatives off, and after 12 years of Tory misrule — they deserve it.

    Just when Boris had killed Farage off his replacement's government may have revived him
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Apparently Kwasi Kwarteng had trouble getting a seat on the plane cos nobody wanted him anywhere near business or economy

    https://twitter.com/_iPed/status/1580888729807646720

    Very believable from a Twitter feed with less than a thousand followers. Must be true.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    Ukraine deputy PM.

    Definitely @elonmusk is among the world's top private donors supporting Ukraine.
    Starlink is an essential element of our critical infrastructure.

    https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1580934203385860097
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,469
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    No, Boris was the one who delivered Brexit and with a trade deal and crushed your party and Labour in
    2019. Boris also delivered the vaccines and furlough with Sunak and had a broader cabinet than Truss' was.

    The mistake was getting rid of Boris
    I know we will never agree on this and I was going to respond but I can see it isn't necessary because of all the many excellent responses already, but I am baffled as to why someone like you, a Christian, can support someone with so few morals. I also can't see how you can't see that he started all this off. He created a long trail of corruption, deception and lies that is destroying the Conservative party. Liz Truss is there because of him. He would not have been removed if he had been honest. Why do you think the Conservative MPs removed him? It wasn't the LDs or Labour party that did it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Omnisis also asks: If tomorrow there were another referendum on EU membership, how do you think you would vote?
    Stay out of the EU 35%
    Rejoin the EU 51%
    Would not vote 7%
    Don’t know 7%

    Excl WNV/DK: If tomorrow there were another referendum on EU membership, how do you think you would vote?
    Stay out of the EU 40%
    Rejoin the EU 60%

  • TazTaz Posts: 10,704
    Scott_xP said:

    A week is long time in politics – The Cons grab a couple of points from Reform & a couple of points from Labour – but there's still a formidable 21 point gap (Field 13-14 Oct)

    Con: 28% (+4 from 6-7 Oct)
    Lab: 49% (-2)
    Lib Dem 10% (0)
    Green 5%(0)
    Reform UK:4%(-2)
    SNP 3% (0)

    https://twitter.com/Omnisis/status/1580911185620189185

    Still pretty dire.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,603
    edited October 2022
    ...

    Driver said:

    kjh said:

    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    You have to hand it to the ERG, they backed a Remainer, Truss over a Leaver, Sunak and ignored those who wanted to back Leaver Badenoch.

    They now have a Remainer as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor, Boris' opponent from 2019 of course and a staunch May loyalist.

    One can't help but laugh at Mark Francois who is responsible for this!

    There is only one person responsible and that is your toxic hero Johnson
    No. Boris won the Tories this majority and ERG backers like Baker turning on him and Francois then ordering the ERG to back Truss has meant they have now seen a Leaver PM and Leaver Chancellor in Boris and Sunak replaced by Remainer Truss as PM and Remainer Hunt as Chancellor.

    This now looks more like it could be more like the old May government than the Boris government
    Boris toxic and irresponsible behaviour led us to today

    And by the way you voted remain
    No, the likes of you forcing him out over partygate led to today and a bigger Starmer lead than ever there was under Boris.

    Yes I did vote Remain and will remain loyal to this government (as I was to the May government) and Hunt is a serious figure for the Treasury and a proper Tory but I also respected the Leave vote and it was only Boris who delivered Brexit
    I didn’t force him out

    Boris behaviour became so toxic he was unacceptable to the vast majority of ordinary people
    HYUFD is like a babysitting agency which sends you a heroin-addicted thief whom you reject, so they send you a convicted paedophile instead. When you complain about the paedophile they say Well, you should've stuck with the thief.
    Colourful but correct.

    Boris remains unsuitable, and in a personal level not policy which is most remarkable. You have to be really sleazy for MPs to not look the other way.
    This all starts with Boris. He is the one that has triggered the destruction of this Government with his dishonesty, corruption, damage to the constitution and gutting of many of the sensible Conservatives from the party.

    One could argue it goes back to Cameron re the Referendum, but I think that is unfair. He probably had little choice and although Brexit was a near impossible task it could have been done much better and without all the subsequent Boris stuff that was not Brexit related.

    As far as I am concerned this all lays at Boris's door. Truss is simply an inevitable corollary of it all.
    The economic problems have two major proximate causes - Russia's invasion of Ukraine (the Tory response being supported by all parties) and lockdown (the Tory response being opposed by all parties only for not being big enough).
    That is fair until the point we arrive at the OBS- free- mini-non-budget-economic-statement. That was a fiasco entirely of Kwarteng's making. It exacebated an already dangerous situation, and has continued so to do.
    Your economic “dangerous situation” not even a bit bigged up by you following the over the top media coverage of it, in your opinion?

    In my opinion, if the polls had hardly moved, hardly dropped, little political pressure on Truss from her own party, Kwarteng would still be there. Tell me I’m wrong.

    It’s the poll movement driving this, the public alienation from the bad politics of the mini budget, not a economic volcano to be appeased.

    The real pressure on UK from the markets has not even begun yet.
    My understanding of economics is from A levels, long, long ago. So long ago that @BartholomewRoberts has explained to me that supply no longer affects demand, and vice-versa, and increasing the money supply is no longer the inflationary hard and fast rule it once was. I will concede to his greater understanding, and likewise yourself. Like the bank of England, I panicked when the cost of gilts went through the roof, and despite their earlier attempts at selling Government Bonds to counter inflation the BoE had to buy, buy, buy, and in order to avert an unprecedented pensions crisis. I am relieved to learn that my foolhardy knee-jerk fear was an error shared with both the BoE and the ratings agencies.

    Nonetheless I concur with your notion that "the real pressure on the UK from the markets has not even begun yet".
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Taz said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Apparently Kwasi Kwarteng had trouble getting a seat on the plane cos nobody wanted him anywhere near business or economy

    https://twitter.com/_iPed/status/1580888729807646720

    Very believable from a Twitter feed with less than a thousand followers. Must be true.
    It's a joke. think about it for a minute
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,591
    Ed clearly believes in revenge as a dish served cold.
    https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/1580931307185401856
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Taz said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Apparently Kwasi Kwarteng had trouble getting a seat on the plane cos nobody wanted him anywhere near business or economy

    https://twitter.com/_iPed/status/1580888729807646720

    Very believable from a Twitter feed with less than a thousand followers. Must be true.
    I keep thinking I have figured out how intelligent you actually are.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,739
    Liz Truss has tried to reassured the markets by very publicly agreeing with them that she hasn’t got a clue what she’s doing. Somehow, it hasn’t worked.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/liz-truss-clueless-kwarteng-sacked-uturn-b2202973.html https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1580947176595017728/photo/1
This discussion has been closed.