Would it be too much to ask, just for once, for an education minister who isn't batshit crazy?
Not that it's traditionally made much difference, given the state of the department itself, but it would be a pleasant change.
Didn't we have one of those on Wednesday?
I am surprised ydoethur would not praise the least disruptive Education Secretary we've ever had.
You have to remember she was in the department for a while beforehand, including under Williamson. Ruining, er, running the HE side of things.
Although at least she was unique among actual education secretaries in not committing any enormous avoidable policy fuckups in her tenure of that role.
What was it the sage wrote of the 1st Earl of Bath: he ran 'the most wise and honest of all administrations, the minister having ... never transacted one rash thing; and, what is more marvellous, left as much money in the Ty. as he found in it!'
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
The Red Wall isn't in Russia. I know things like gay marriage are not popular over there.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
Yay, there we have it - MickTrain back and fell into the GP service criticism at Foxy.
Any graphic designers want to weigh in on Sunak's (sorry, Rishi's) campaign logo Not sure that is official conservative blue, but the "I" also serving as an exclamation point is a nice touch.
"Ready for x" always sounds a bit weak.
Should be "Down with Dominic"
Raab v Javid would be epic. If I were Raab in that situation I'd go the membership with a simple message:
Hahaha oh God, is it a crywank? It's a crywank isn't it?
Actually no. It's actually a rather amusing aside, and almost sweet despite the subject. Over the coming weeks we will be regaled with dozens of personal recollections, from around the world, of the man who has dominated British politics this last half decade. Some of them will paint him as a foolish clown, others as a flawed genius, others will see him as Leaver saint or Brexiteering Satan, but my Boris Johnson story might be the only one involving medically dangerous levels of masturbation
Undertook an experiment by showing pictures of all the declared or thought to be declared candidates to my go to anecdote relative - working class, 65, Boris fan - and asked for their immediate opinion just from looking at their official photos. I gave no names or details.
Tugendhat - boyish, how old is he supposed to be? Truss - seems alright Braverman - Nope Hunt - Looks really weird Mordaunt - Not sure Berry - looks like someone is squeezing his balls just off shot Baker - Looks alright. Zahawi - Nope Javid - Definitely not Wallace - Literally no opinion could form Badenoch - Seems approachable, decent Wiggin - untrustworthy Baron - too smiley (note from me: harsh, it is an official photo) Davis – Looks too strict
Sunak - the only one they actually recognised. 'Definitely don't trust him. Thinks because his wife is rich everyone is. Toys with people'.
Blank canvas against, Baker, Truss and Badenoch it is.
(He did accept it would take time to get used to any new people)
Badenoch will upset the race identity politics mob in other parties.
Was she not the one that Dawn Butler labelled a "Racial Gatekeeper"?
Kemi Badenoch has been brilliant in the Equalities role, totally straight and polite as the identity politics mob went mad over her, because it should be illegal to be black and conservative. Or something.
Probably a little inexperienced for the top job right now, but maybe next time around.
"Identity politics mob" = weirdos on Twitter.
These issues do not matter to anyone.
Weirdos on the benches opposite, as there were from 2015 until 2019.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
The Red Wall isn't in Russia. I know things like gay marriage are not popular over there.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
You think that repealing gay marriage would win the Conservatives votes in the Red Wall?
no i think restricting immigration would more but repeal of gay marriage would appeal to the sizeable muslim vote there plus many of the older red wall generation
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
You think that repealing gay marriage would win the Conservatives votes in the Red Wall?
no i think restricting immigration would more but repeal of gay marriage would appeal to the sizeable muslim vote there plus many of the older red wall generation
The only people who want to repeal gay marriage are strict Muslims and Roman Catholics and hardline evangelical Christians not most of the white working class.
It's over for nuclear in Germany. The SDP-Green coalition has won a vote in the Bundestag backing more coal burning so that the three remaining nuclear plants can be switched off as planned this year. Climate targets may have to be abandoned as a result."
I'd bet residual opposition to gay marriage is significantly lower in WWC red wall seats than in metropolitan London seats with large non-white Christian populations.
In 1983, almost three quarters of adults in the UK said homosexual relationships between adults were wrong.
Now, three quarters of adults say that gay marriage should continue to be legal.
The group opposed - as you point out - are mostly the extremely religious. Which is not a particularly numerous group in the Red Wall.
Any graphic designers want to weigh in on Sunak's (sorry, Rishi's) campaign logo Not sure that is official conservative blue, but the "I" also serving as an exclamation point is a nice touch.
"Ready for x" always sounds a bit weak.
Should be "Down with Dominic"
Raab v Javid would be epic. If I were Raab in that situation I'd go the membership with a simple message:
Dom, or Non Dom?
Very good!
Would be an extra humiliation when Dom still lost though.
It's over for nuclear in Germany. The SDP-Green coalition has won a vote in the Bundestag backing more coal burning so that the three remaining nuclear plants can be switched off as planned this year. Climate targets may have to be abandoned as a result."
Nice to enjoy an early finish from work and a gorgeous evening here in downtown East London. No doubt an evening such as this will be punctuated by the summer sounds of the city later.
We forget for all those who are delighting at Johnson' downfall, there is a significant minority who view this as a disaster. The "true believers" voted for Johnson in 2019, not the Conservatives and the narrative their hero was betrayed by the media, traitorous colleagues and the like will take hold.
Is there a Johnsonian bloc of voters who now consider themselves politically homeless? Might their hero not consider forming his own party (Trump, we are told, has come close on occasion to considering a third party run and might still do so if the GOP doesn't play ball).? I suspect not as new parties are hard work but if a Johnson Party could poll 10-15% in the northern and midland Conservative heartlands, that would accentuate the measure of any future defeat.
It's my experience many people don't vote FOR something, they usually vote AGAINST something else - in 2019 people voted against political stalemate and Jeremy Corbyn but next time those cards won't be in play.
It may well be Labour will be able to portray the Conservatives as the party to vote against next time - if so, Starmer will make it to No.10.
It's over for nuclear in Germany. The SDP-Green coalition has won a vote in the Bundestag backing more coal burning so that the three remaining nuclear plants can be switched off as planned this year. Climate targets may have to be abandoned as a result."
Wallace can act as Kingmaker and secure foreign sec if he wants it from any of the candidates imo.
I know it is one of the Great Offices of State, but in the modern age with PMs doing so much travel and face to faces with world leaders, is the Foreign Office really better than Defence? Health is probably more important too, for the public, but not very glamorous.
I wonder if he is just Army through and through and being Defence Minister is a dream job and a good stepping stone if he wants the top NATO job.
Not all people want “bigger” more prestigious jobs and maybe he’s one of these.
I believe he also has a young family and so why would you want to spend years potentially jetting off to all corners and miss your children growing up? Unless they are horrid children of course.
Gibb at Education was like this. Content with his brief and intelligently realised that a minister of state can often be more influential in real terms than a SoS.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
That's why the rightwingers in America have moved on from anti-gay to anti-trans.
Change since the 1990s - remember Don't Ask, Don't Tell and Defense of Marriage Act both supported by most DEMOCRATIC politicos? - has been stunning.
Because the opposition essentially crumbled, and folded. Reflecting significant shift in public opinion - not among "woke" lefties but instead among political/cultural moderates AND conservatives.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
Yay, there we have it - MickTrain back and fell into the GP service criticism at Foxy.
I spotted it too mate.
Nice work, I tried to cunningly catch him out with Camden upon Hull but you made it redundant, pal.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
Starmer will peak over the summer. The new Tory leader, whoever they are, will get a honeymoon. It will start to unwind, because the economic and political fundamentals are horrific. The Tory choice will dictate the speed of that unwind. Pick the wrong person and it will be fast. Best case six months. Either way Starmer will start to rise again.
Indeed, a honeymoon Tory lead of circa 6 to 8 points, but a Brown era missed election opportunity won't work as voters are already hurting and that gap will close fast.
It very much depends who they choose. If it's anyone you've heard of I can't see a lead. All the knowns are discredited by their association with Johnson. Labour's poll lead might even increase.
Johnson undoubtedly put together a new, winning coalition in 2019. By the time Johnson was ousted it was pretty clear that he was not holding that coalition together and I can't see a single candidate in the leadership race that will come close to doing it.
Once the fear of Corbyn disappeared it was always going to be very difficult to hold on to middle-class remainers and WWC leavers. Almost as soon as the election was over those 2 groups wanted very different things from the government.
It will be fascinating to see whether the Tories now go for a leader that appeals to the Red Wall or one that appeals to Tory remainers in more affluent seats who are deserting the Tories in droves.
Would it be too much to ask, just for once, for an education minister who isn't batshit crazy?
Not that it's traditionally made much difference, given the state of the department itself, but it would be a pleasant change.
Didn't we have one of those on Wednesday?
I am surprised ydoethur would not praise the least disruptive Education Secretary we've ever had.
You have to remember she was in the department for a while beforehand, including under Williamson. Ruining, er, running the HE side of things.
Although at least she was unique among actual education secretaries in not committing any enormous avoidable policy fuckups in her tenure of that role.
What was it the sage wrote of the 1st Earl of Bath: he ran 'the most wise and honest of all administrations, the minister having ... never transacted one rash thing; and, what is more marvellous, left as much money in the Ty. as he found in it!'
So now we know why @Leon was an apologist, because he thought that Johnson had deliberately left in something other editors would have removed. This was most likely pure incompetence (he didn't bother reading the article) rather than devil may care!
Hahaha oh God, is it a crywank? It's a crywank isn't it?
Actually no. It's actually a rather amusing aside, and almost sweet despite the subject. Over the coming weeks we will be regaled with dozens of personal recollections, from around the world, of the man who has dominated British politics this last half decade. Some of them will paint him as a foolish clown, others as a flawed genius, others will see him as Leaver saint or Brexiteering Satan, but my Boris Johnson story might be the only one involving medically dangerous levels of masturbation
That is a very good quote. One must reluctantly admit that the guy can write.
I'd bet residual opposition to gay marriage is significantly lower in WWC red wall seats than in metropolitan London seats with large non-white Christian populations.
In 1983, almost three quarters of adults in the UK said homosexual relationships between adults were wrong.
Now, three quarters of adults say that gay marriage should continue to be legal.
The group opposed - as you point out - are mostly the extremely religious. Which is not a particularly numerous group in the Red Wall.
Going off on a slight tangent, but I wonder how many people would answer that homosexual relationships are wrong, but that gay marriage should continue to be legal? I rather like people who can separate out what they think is right or wrong from what the law should get involved in. These are the truly tolerant people.
Any graphic designers want to weigh in on Sunak's (sorry, Rishi's) campaign logo Not sure that is official conservative blue, but the "I" also serving as an exclamation point is a nice touch.
"Ready for x" always sounds a bit weak.
Should be "Down with Dominic"
Raab v Javid would be epic. If I were Raab in that situation I'd go the membership with a simple message:
Undertook an experiment by showing pictures of all the declared or thought to be declared candidates to my go to anecdote relative - working class, 65, Boris fan - and asked for their immediate opinion just from looking at their official photos. I gave no names or details.
Tugendhat - boyish, how old is he supposed to be? Truss - seems alright Braverman - Nope Hunt - Looks really weird Mordaunt - Not sure Berry - looks like someone is squeezing his balls just off shot Baker - Looks alright. Zahawi - Nope Javid - Definitely not Wallace - Literally no opinion could form Badenoch - Seems approachable, decent Wiggin - untrustworthy Baron - too smiley (note from me: harsh, it is an official photo) Davis – Looks too strict
Sunak - the only one they actually recognised. 'Definitely don't trust him. Thinks because his wife is rich everyone is. Toys with people'.
Blank canvas against, Baker, Truss and Badenoch it is.
(He did accept it would take time to get used to any new people)
Badenoch will upset the race identity politics mob in other parties.
Was she not the one that Dawn Butler labelled a "Racial Gatekeeper"?
Kemi Badenoch has been brilliant in the Equalities role, totally straight and polite as the identity politics mob went mad over her, because it should be illegal to be black and conservative. Or something.
Probably a little inexperienced for the top job right now, but maybe next time around.
"Identity politics mob" = weirdos on Twitter.
These issues do not matter to anyone.
The problem is not the weirdos on Twitter themselves. It is the improverished state of the press leading to the publishing of tweet-comment-tweet-comment as the basis for an article. The weirdness is amplified and becomes the debate.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
Goodness, a populist government, I wonder when we last had one of those
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Woke is such a usefully mobile and imprecise term. Characterising gay marriage as 'woke' seems bizarre now, though - surely monogamous commitment is a (small-c) conservative virtue?
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
A populist govt - right or left or whathaveyou - won't waste half-an-hour flogging this dead horse. Not enough voters care anymore, at least westward of the old Iron Curtain.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Maybe not Putin. Well none that he will admit to. Other than his houseboy. And his horse.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Maybe not Putin. Well none that he will admit to. Other than his houseboy. And his horse.
I thought it was that Bulgarian Kipper who had a gay horse?
I'd bet residual opposition to gay marriage is significantly lower in WWC red wall seats than in metropolitan London seats with large non-white Christian populations.
In 1983, almost three quarters of adults in the UK said homosexual relationships between adults were wrong.
Now, three quarters of adults say that gay marriage should continue to be legal.
The group opposed - as you point out - are mostly the extremely religious. Which is not a particularly numerous group in the Red Wall.
exactly and in 30 years time 3/4 of adults could again say homosexual relationships are wrong...fashions change you see as for gay friends....many older people dont have gay friends and in fact many are visibly uncomfortable around them
I'd bet residual opposition to gay marriage is significantly lower in WWC red wall seats than in metropolitan London seats with large non-white Christian populations.
In 1983, almost three quarters of adults in the UK said homosexual relationships between adults were wrong.
Now, three quarters of adults say that gay marriage should continue to be legal.
The group opposed - as you point out - are mostly the extremely religious. Which is not a particularly numerous group in the Red Wall.
Going off on a slight tangent, but I wonder how many people would answer that homosexual relationships are wrong, but that gay marriage should continue to be legal? I rather like people who can separate out what they think is right or wrong from what the law should get involved in. These are the truly tolerant people.
It's interesting that the C of E contains many gays, and has (totally?) cut out the hellfire and damnation to gays stuff, but outright bans gay marriage. Completely the opposite of your - also interesting - point.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
Sunak into 7-2 with a slew of endorsements. I think he deserves the price, Wallace drifting to 6s.
sunak will appeal to middle class southern woke liberals who want to show they are down with diversity....with his manner he will have no appeal in the red wall...he seems like a rich elitist
He's basically Cameron 2.0.
yes and times have changed dramatically since 2010
It's true: support for gay marriage has roughly doubled since 2010.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Everyone probably had gay friends for like ever, only wondered why the other half always looked so miserable at dinner parties.
“It’s obvious who to turn to, they are the best captain and leader of this generation.” “Nope. They are homosexual unfortunately.”
Mick, mate, the UK has moved on to a better place, just like your beloved Russia will too, 94.9% of people don’t want to go back there on that one at all.
Immigration though, that’s a different ball game, especially when politicians link it to lack of housing, can’t see a doctor, can’t get dental treatment, can’t get a decent paying job, loss of green belt etc etc
Score update German side Nurnberg have moved into a 2-0 lead before the break, giving Arsenal a mountain to climb in the second-half. 🤭
Hahaha oh God, is it a crywank? It's a crywank isn't it?
Actually no. It's actually a rather amusing aside, and almost sweet despite the subject. Over the coming weeks we will be regaled with dozens of personal recollections, from around the world, of the man who has dominated British politics this last half decade. Some of them will paint him as a foolish clown, others as a flawed genius, others will see him as Leaver saint or Brexiteering Satan, but my Boris Johnson story might be the only one involving medically dangerous levels of masturbation
That is a very good quote. One must reluctantly admit that the guy can write.
He can, but it is his job. I can't help liking him though sometimes. He can be an arse, but also often quite disarmingly witty.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
Your point seems contradictory to me.
First, it would not be 'populist' to impose something which did not enjoy popular support. Second, you seem to accept that since the legalisation people's views have conformed to it. Therefore, the social trend is away from repealing.
So in conclusion, what you are actually suggesting is that a non-populist government will somehow be elected and, against the status quo to which people are conforming, decide to pick a massive row by repealing gay marriage.
Why are you so confident that a government would want to do that, when your own logic is that people at present (and on the basis you say people are conformist, that people will in the 2030s still) are supportive?
MPs would demand a free vote for a start, no government is going to whip through that.
I recall one of the objecting MPs when gay marraige was legalised saying that while he did so, he recognised a majority were in favour. Unless a big majority were not in favour, it ain't happening - no serious candidates or parties propose bringing back the death penalty, and that actually has popular support.
I'd bet residual opposition to gay marriage is significantly lower in WWC red wall seats than in metropolitan London seats with large non-white Christian populations.
In 1983, almost three quarters of adults in the UK said homosexual relationships between adults were wrong.
Now, three quarters of adults say that gay marriage should continue to be legal.
The group opposed - as you point out - are mostly the extremely religious. Which is not a particularly numerous group in the Red Wall.
exactly and in 30 years time 3/4 of adults could again say homosexual relationships are wrong...fashions change you see as for gay friends....many older people dont have gay friends and in fact many are visibly uncomfortable around them
in 30 years time 3/4 of adults could say that Jews are bad or mixed race marriages should be banned. Theoretically any shift in opinion is possible. I wonder what is motivating you to speculate on this particular theme?
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
In fact, support seems to be increasing over time rather than the other way around. With already a huge supermajority in favour.
Entirely unsurprising. Granted, we cannot always see what will come along, but I cannot even envisage why it would reverse - gay couples are not scary to anyone!
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Everyone probably had gay friends for like ever, only wondered why the other half always looked so miserable at dinner parties.
(Snip)
"Let people be what they want to be, unless they hurt others in the process."
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Woke is such a usefully mobile and imprecise term. Characterising gay marriage as 'woke' seems bizarre now, though - surely monogamous commitment is a (small-c) conservative virtue?
I think “woke” is just modern, childish, language for “progressive” isn’t it? I.e. Wanting to push just beyond where the consensus lies? IIRC it was originally a self ascribed term.
For example, as someone with generally right wing views, I was arguing in favour of gay marriage in the 90s, but that’s because I was in my teens and it was a mainstream view in my age group. That age group now runs the world, and our mainstream view is that a lot of the “trans/gender” stuff is overly complex bollocks. In time, that consensus may change.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Woke is such a usefully mobile and imprecise term. Characterising gay marriage as 'woke' seems bizarre now, though - surely monogamous commitment is a (small-c) conservative virtue?
David Cameron: And to anyone who has reservations, I say: Yes, it's about equality, but it's also about something else: commitment. Conservatives believe in the ties that bind us; that society is stronger when we make vows to each other and support each other. So I don't support gay marriage despite being a Conservative. I support gay marriage because I'm a Conservative
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
So now we know why @Leon was an apologist, because he thought that Johnson had deliberately left in something other editors would have removed. This was most likely pure incompetence (he didn't bother reading the article) rather than devil may care!
Friday marks the cutoff date for the more than 100 initiatives in Washington state that have been gathering signatures to appear on the Nov. 8 ballot. Initiatives need at least 324,516 signatures from voters by 5 p.m. Friday, and the Secretary of State has recommended sponsors gather at least 405,000 signatures in case some signatures are invalid.
Although anti-tax businessman Tim Eyman withdrew three of his initiatives in March, he is still sponsoring 40 of the other initiatives on the Secretary of State’s list, mostly with variations of self-explanatory subjects such as “We don’t want any kind of income tax,” “term limits on taxes” and “no carbon tax.”
Eyman currently owes the state of Washington more than $5 million for campaign finance violations.
State Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, well-known for his appearances at anti-vaccine rallies throughout the pandemic, is sponsoring 40 initiatives on the list. While some of those are targeted at income tax as well, Walsh’s initiatives have a bigger range of topics than Eyman’s. For example, Initiative 1843 is an anti-Critical Race Theory proposal that would prohibit teachers in Washington from talking about “institutional, systemic, or structural racism; implicit bias; race or sex superiority; and stereotyping” to their students. . . .
SSI - whole host of other initiatives on plethora of topics with wide variety of sponsors. Most will NOT get the required signatures, will be interesting to see how many actually do make it. Maybe none.
HERE IS ONE INITITIVE that should get plenty of support from PBers"
Initiative Measure No. 1924 – Would require retailers to show the total amount, including taxes, that will be paid at the register on price tags for items. This is already standard practice in the EU.
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
A populist govt - right or left or whathaveyou - won't waste half-an-hour flogging this dead horse. Not enough voters care anymore, at least westward of the old Iron Curtain.
I have to say I thought Johnson led a "Populist" Government -where are the thousands of his loyalists from the north and midlands set to march on London and return their hero to his glory?
Weren't the crowds outside Downing Street booing because he was going? No, they were booing because he was still staying and of course that waste of space Andrea Jenkyns had to wade in with some pointless comment.
It's to be hoped whoever ends up Prime Minister after this fiasco keeps her and the Johnson acolytes in permanent backbench oblivion - they can take over once the Tories are reduced to 50 seats at the next election.
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
Not literally everyone may have gay friends, but how many suffer from gay panic? Virtually no one is concerned about gay people in general, and accordingly gay marriage only matters to the very strictly religious (depending on their religion of choice).
So mild hyperbole not covering literally everyone doesn't detract from the point.
And what the heck do metropolitan bubbles have to do with anything. Gay people exist outside cities you know.
Another point for you to consider is we have the gayest parliament in the world. MPs stick around a long time, and all the ones there now will know gay colleagues for a long time - the law is not going to change.
Edit: scanning thar article I actually had no idea many of those listed were gay - and presumably some are married - because it doesn't matter to their politics.
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
There's a difference between having gay friends and having friends you know to be gay. Bigots are often the last ones to find out because their hatred keeps people from telling them.
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
Oh mate, you must be so buried in the closet you’re having adventures in Narnia.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
God, they’re going to get worse before they get better, aren’t they?
Yet again appealing to a shrinking and ageing segment of the electorate.
Next stop a grilling by the triple-lock conservation society followed by a multi choice test on imperial weights and measures.
the assumption the young are pro woke is wrong....yes the metropolitan middle class youth are i agree...not so much the working class youth in the north...these people are conformist but as soon as a strong leader pushes back against woke they will follow
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed dramatically in the last fifty years, irrespective of social class.
Everyone now has gay friends. And I mean, everyone
Maybe not Putin. Well none that he will admit to. Other than his houseboy. And his horse.
I thought it was that Bulgarian Kipper who had a gay horse?
Edit- that is, possessed a gay horse...
Some years ago, when I was doing horse riding, one horse in the stables was quite clearly gay.
Sometime later I was only slightly surprised to see the same horse was now a police horse. In Oxford.
Those with the memory may recall a stupid young man who got arrested after calling a police horse gay. In Oxford.
I remember thinking that it would be a very bad idea to tell the policewoman on the horse that he was, in fact gay, due to that story. Even though it was literally true.
An example of where telling the exact truth would probably get you arrested.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
In fact, support seems to be increasing over time rather than the other way around. With already a huge supermajority in favour.
This is part of my "the world has not ended" approach to evolutionary politics.
Many people who were against many things (e.g. equalisation of age of consent, gay marriage, women in the CofE) proclaimed the change would mean the end of the world. Then a little change happens, and the world does not end. Fewer people then complain that the next little change will cause the end of the world, and not as many listen to those arguments, because they were wrong the last time.
Gay marriage has not ended the world. It has not affected most people one jot (aside from those who are now happily married). Hence why be against it?
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
Kevin, I actually come from the dales of Yorkshire, a Conservative community that has changed with the rest of UK. The whole UK has changed. Your Russia will change too, you can’t stop it, you are in a global village now, colonialism is over, going back to the past on social freedom is over. The major religions are following suite.
Tugendhat - the 'time for a fresh face' candidate Sunak - the 'don't rock the boat' candidate Truss - the 'you can compare me to Thatcher, please' candidate Braverman - the 'continuity' candidate Hunt - the 'you made a mistake last time' candidate Mordaunt - the 'I was in the reserves' candidate Berry - the 'you've never heard of me, have you?' candidate Baker - the 'Proper Brexiteer' candidate Zahawi - the candidate for people who like slithering reptiles Javid - the 'missed his chance, going for a last attempt' candidate Wallace - the 'blank canvas' candidate Badenoch - the 'anti-woke' candidate
*not all declared, but included as 'considering a run'
I expect blank canvas to win, if he runs and it goes to members.
Trying to list them in order of elimination would be an interesting exercise.
What about: Berry Zahawi Braverman Javid Badenach Truss Hunt Tugendhat Baker Sunak Mordaunt Wallace -coconut or cigar
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
There's a difference between having gay friends and having friends you know to be gay. Bigots are often the last ones to find out because their hatred keeps people from telling them.
Trust me none of my parents friends are gay...none of my friends at school were gay either...again that old metropolitan bubble
like i say the rcs notion that everyone has gay friends is laughable..maybe in metropolitan london but older voters in the red wall no....my mum and dad have never had any gay friends and nor have any of their friends....this is the problem with people who live in a metropolitan bubble
There's a difference between having gay friends and having friends you know to be gay. Bigots are often the last ones to find out because their hatred keeps people from telling them.
Trust me none of my parents friends are gay...none of my friends at school were gay either...again that old metropolitan bubble
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
So your position is that either a majority are against gay marriage now and are being ignored, or that sometime in the next decade there will be a majority against gay marriage?
I'm really curious what your basis for that is - Is there polling showing discontent with the law, which is on the rise? Is there not a majority now, but for some reason the coming decade will see one?
there was not a majority in favour of gay marriage in 2003, 10 years later it happened...people are conformist and follow social trends ...when the social trends change peoples views will change....a populist govt would help this along
Spasiba Comrade Kevin. I am sure that the Central Yorkshire Council is not mayored by a populist despite their preference for traditional values. The krasivni wall is made up of many Labour bricks in my opinion.
NEW Anti-woke Conservative Common-sense Group to grill all Tory leadership candidates on Monday July 18 at 6pm. Expect the ‘culture wars’, statues and controversial street names to feature prominently. https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1545430774006038533
I wonder if any candidate uses 'common sense' to tell them where they can stick it
They really cannot find their way out of the Wokefinder Generals clutches can they?
It isn't going to win them an election.
actually foxy a hard line on immigration plus for example a repeal of gay marriage may win them the election as it would get big red wall support...
Maybe the red wall in Russia, but not here!
i dont think you know the red wall Foxy...there is a big Muslim vote there too and a repeal of gay marriage could swing big blocks towards the conservatives
a) Gay marriage is never going to be repealed.
b) Why do you think Muslims in the red wall are different to Muslims in Leicester?
I wouldn't expect our new troll to know, but they are different. Most Muslims in Leicester are Gujerati or Bengali, while those in the "Red Wall" are mostly Pakistani.
I don't find the "Red Wall" a very useful shorthand. I think old coalfields is a better description. These are places now 35 years post pit closures and strike, so different cultures and occupations.
Gay marriage will be repealed eventually Foxy as a populist govt takes power but maybe not until the 2030s...by then your views may be looking out of date and old fashioned....a bit like our gp service
Yay, there we have it - MickTrain back and fell into the GP service criticism at Foxy.
And he lapsed into the matery, but doesn't sound so much like s dog-food emporium this time.
I think we've all had our fun baiting KevinB now, time for the mods to bin him.
Comments
These people will all be gone once the new administration takes over in a month or so.
Although at least she was unique among actual education secretaries in not committing any enormous avoidable policy fuckups in her tenure of that role.
What was it the sage wrote of the 1st Earl of Bath: he ran 'the most wise and honest of all administrations, the minister having ... never transacted one rash thing; and, what is more marvellous, left as much money in the Ty. as he found in it!'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short-lived_ministry
Maybe he has now decided he wants to be VONC and out next week in order to feed the "Great Boris Betrayal" myth further.
PS So quickly you could well have missed him.
Over the coming weeks we will be regaled with dozens of personal recollections, from around the world, of the man who has dominated British politics this last half decade. Some of them will paint him as a foolish clown, others as a flawed genius, others will see him as Leaver saint or Brexiteering Satan, but my Boris Johnson story might be the only one involving medically dangerous levels of masturbation
Complete with a flint dildo!
Declared: Braverman, Sunak, Tugendhat
Publicly expressed interest: Badenoch, Baker, Baron, Berry, Buckland, Chishti, Davis, Dorries, Javid, Mordaunt, Shapps, Truss, Wallace, Wiggin, Zahawi
Potential: Barclay, Hunt, Kwarteng, McVey, Patel
Declined: Ellwood, Gove, Hancock, Harper, Raab
Cleverly and Leadsom have disappeared from the Declined list, Gove has returned.
Nuts.
Now, three quarters of adults say that gay marriage should continue to be legal.
The group opposed - as you point out - are mostly the extremely religious. Which is not a particularly numerous group in the Red Wall.
Nice to enjoy an early finish from work and a gorgeous evening here in downtown East London. No doubt an evening such as this will be punctuated by the summer sounds of the city later.
We forget for all those who are delighting at Johnson' downfall, there is a significant minority who view this as a disaster. The "true believers" voted for Johnson in 2019, not the Conservatives and the narrative their hero was betrayed by the media, traitorous colleagues and the like will take hold.
Is there a Johnsonian bloc of voters who now consider themselves politically homeless? Might their hero not consider forming his own party (Trump, we are told, has come close on occasion to considering a third party run and might still do so if the GOP doesn't play ball).? I suspect not as new parties are hard work but if a Johnson Party could poll 10-15% in the northern and midland Conservative heartlands, that would accentuate the measure of any future defeat.
It's my experience many people don't vote FOR something, they usually vote AGAINST something else - in 2019 people voted against political stalemate and Jeremy Corbyn but next time those cards won't be in play.
It may well be Labour will be able to portray the Conservatives as the party to vote against next time - if so, Starmer will make it to No.10.
Burn coal rather than nukes? - utter madness.
Change since the 1990s - remember Don't Ask, Don't Tell and Defense of Marriage Act both supported by most DEMOCRATIC politicos? - has been stunning.
Because the opposition essentially crumbled, and folded. Reflecting significant shift in public opinion - not among "woke" lefties but instead among political/cultural moderates AND conservatives.
https://ozanne.foundation/project/same-sex-marriage-research-2022/
In fact, support seems to be increasing over time rather than the other way around. With already a huge supermajority in favour.
New PM on the 1st September and the new PM will do a Starmer on the Corbynista right wing of the conservative party and marginalise them
Once the fear of Corbyn disappeared it was always going to be very difficult to hold on to middle-class remainers and WWC leavers. Almost as soon as the election was over those 2 groups wanted very different things from the government.
It will be fascinating to see whether the Tories now go for a leader that appeals to the Red Wall or one that appeals to Tory remainers in more affluent seats who are deserting the Tories in droves.
Are you sure the Bone thing isn’t a piss take* ?
(*I know, it is of course taking the piss, but is it real ?)
I rather like people who can separate out what they think is right or wrong from what the law should get involved in. These are the truly tolerant people.
Edit- that is, possessed a gay horse...
as for gay friends....many older people dont have gay friends and in fact many are visibly uncomfortable around them
Boris is trolling now.
“It’s obvious who to turn to, they are the best captain and leader of this generation.”
“Nope. They are homosexual unfortunately.”
Mick, mate, the UK has moved on to a better place, just like your beloved Russia will too, 94.9% of people don’t want to go back there on that one at all.
Immigration though, that’s a different ball game, especially when politicians link it to lack of housing, can’t see a doctor, can’t get dental treatment, can’t get a decent paying job, loss of green belt etc etc
Score update German side Nurnberg have moved into a 2-0 lead before the break, giving Arsenal a mountain to climb in the second-half. 🤭
First, it would not be 'populist' to impose something which did not enjoy popular support. Second, you seem to accept that since the legalisation people's views have conformed to it. Therefore, the social trend is away from repealing.
So in conclusion, what you are actually suggesting is that a non-populist government will somehow be elected and, against the status quo to which people are conforming, decide to pick a massive row by repealing gay marriage.
Why are you so confident that a government would want to do that, when your own logic is that people at present (and on the basis you say people are conformist, that people will in the 2030s still) are supportive?
MPs would demand a free vote for a start, no government is going to whip through that.
I recall one of the objecting MPs when gay marraige was legalised saying that while he did so, he recognised a majority were in favour. Unless a big majority were not in favour, it ain't happening - no serious candidates or parties propose bringing back the death penalty, and that actually has popular support.
It’s so he can call himself “former deputy leader of the house” as bragging rights…
So I have laid him.
For example, as someone with generally right wing views, I was arguing in favour of gay marriage in the 90s, but that’s because I was in my teens and it was a mainstream view in my age group. That age group now runs the world, and our mainstream view is that a lot of the “trans/gender” stuff is overly complex bollocks. In time, that consensus may change.
https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/state/washington/article263271178.html?ac_cid=DM668866&ac_bid=405087845
Friday marks the cutoff date for the more than 100 initiatives in Washington state that have been gathering signatures to appear on the Nov. 8 ballot. Initiatives need at least 324,516 signatures from voters by 5 p.m. Friday, and the Secretary of State has recommended sponsors gather at least 405,000 signatures in case some signatures are invalid.
Although anti-tax businessman Tim Eyman withdrew three of his initiatives in March, he is still sponsoring 40 of the other initiatives on the Secretary of State’s list, mostly with variations of self-explanatory subjects such as “We don’t want any kind of income tax,” “term limits on taxes” and “no carbon tax.”
Eyman currently owes the state of Washington more than $5 million for campaign finance violations.
State Rep. Jim Walsh, R-Aberdeen, well-known for his appearances at anti-vaccine rallies throughout the pandemic, is sponsoring 40 initiatives on the list. While some of those are targeted at income tax as well, Walsh’s initiatives have a bigger range of topics than Eyman’s. For example, Initiative 1843 is an anti-Critical Race Theory proposal that would prohibit teachers in Washington from talking about “institutional, systemic, or structural racism; implicit bias; race or sex superiority; and stereotyping” to their students. . . .
SSI - whole host of other initiatives on plethora of topics with wide variety of sponsors. Most will NOT get the required signatures, will be interesting to see how many actually do make it. Maybe none.
HERE IS ONE INITITIVE that should get plenty of support from PBers"
Initiative Measure No. 1924 – Would require retailers to show the total amount, including taxes, that will be paid at the register on price tags for items. This is already standard practice in the EU.
Weren't the crowds outside Downing Street booing because he was going? No, they were booing because he was still staying and of course that waste of space Andrea Jenkyns had to wade in with some pointless comment.
It's to be hoped whoever ends up Prime Minister after this fiasco keeps her and the Johnson acolytes in permanent backbench oblivion - they can take over once the Tories are reduced to 50 seats at the next election.
So mild hyperbole not covering literally everyone doesn't detract from the point.
And what the heck do metropolitan bubbles have to do with anything. Gay people exist outside cities you know.
Another point for you to consider is we have the gayest parliament in the world. MPs stick around a long time, and all the ones there now will know gay colleagues for a long time - the law is not going to change.
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/12/13/uk-gay-parliament-world-2019-general-election-snp-conservatives-labour-lgbt/
Edit: scanning thar article I actually had no idea many of those listed were gay - and presumably some are married - because it doesn't matter to their politics.
Bigots are often the last ones to find out because their hatred keeps people from telling them.
Sometime later I was only slightly surprised to see the same horse was now a police horse. In Oxford.
Those with the memory may recall a stupid young man who got arrested after calling a police horse gay. In Oxford.
I remember thinking that it would be a very bad idea to tell the policewoman on the horse that he was, in fact gay, due to that story. Even though it was literally true.
An example of where telling the exact truth would probably get you arrested.
Many people who were against many things (e.g. equalisation of age of consent, gay marriage, women in the CofE) proclaimed the change would mean the end of the world. Then a little change happens, and the world does not end. Fewer people then complain that the next little change will cause the end of the world, and not as many listen to those arguments, because they were wrong the last time.
Gay marriage has not ended the world. It has not affected most people one jot (aside from those who are now happily married). Hence why be against it?
What about:
Berry
Zahawi
Braverman
Javid
Badenach
Truss
Hunt
Tugendhat
Baker
Sunak
Mordaunt
Wallace -coconut or cigar
Own it. Embrace it.