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The confidence vote takes place tonight – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811

    The public will not give the Tories another chance to reinvent themselves.

    Clearly Mordaunt would be a huge improvement over Johnson.

    So you hope, yet Labour haven't convinced the public that they are the answer so I think they will.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,145
    edited June 2022
    Heathener said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Stereodog said:

    Heathener said:

    @PennyMordaunt
    Today I will be attending Portsmouth’s commemoration service to remember the efforts and sacrifice of #DDay. Privilege to have met so many who took part and proud of #Portsmouth role. #DDay78


    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1533727319466119169

    Classy from our next PM....
    Has due diligence been done on Mourdant? She would be a right wing leader, so not not a unifier in the party or someone whose idealism and instinct would be to tack to the centre?
    Yeah but she also has a real gritty working class background.

    She's a very dangerous prospect for Labour. She eviscerated Angela Rayner and I suspect she would look very impressive up against Starmer.

    She'd be capable of winning the centre voters as well as the red wall: all that military background is perfect and unlike Boris it's for real.

    I think she's hugely impressive and if she were to win a GE I'd be pretty chilled about it, unlike most other Conservatives.

    She'd be very dangerous for Labour.
    Does she have a gritty working class background? One of her ancestors was involved in a famous Victorian divorce case involving the Prince of Wales.
    She's got big-time military credentials,.
    Why is this important?

    It's not even true. She is a S/Lt(Acting) in the RNR which means she has crossed Portsmouth Harbour in a P2000.
    She's the daughter of a para, grew up in a military home, is a Royal Navy reservist and is even named after a navy ship. She was Defence Secretary, represents a very military minded constituency and is constantly doing things in and around military and defence matters - today being another example.

    It matters because she's far more authentic to the red wall voters than Boris would ever be.

    Anyway, I've said quite enough about her. I want a Labour Government, no matter how much I admire her.
    I agree that Mordaunt is an interesting one, and far from typical centre-left reasons of my most regular perspective. There's some sense that she has had more of a struggle to get where she is than many modern politicians, but also displays some more human, and arguably also more optimally female qualities than many others ; some signs of a specifically female kind of emotional intelligence alongside the steeliness. Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy show some signs of the same combination of obstacles overcome and this more emotionally capable aspect, I think, too.

    As someone who will vote Labour next time, I don't want a Tory victory and think she might make it more likely, but I still think she's a better candidate - and possibly person - than several others.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    geoffw said:

    Mad Nad’s mad: - to Hunt:

    3/4 Your pandemic preparation during six years as health secretary was found wanting and inadequate.Your duplicity right now in destabilising the party and country to serve your own personal ambition, more so.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763409627566080

    On afternoon of 23rd July 2020 when I was health minister you telephoned me to tell me that we had to handle the pandemic following the example set by the East/China. That people testing + should be removed from their homes and placed into isolation hotels for two weeks.

    You said yr wife’s family had experience of this during SARS. I said that British people would never tolerate being removed from their homes and loved ones at which point you demanded I show you the evidence for that. Your handling of the pandemic would have been a disaster.


    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763407970816002
    Quite damning.

    Hunt made the NHS what it is today.
  • Mad Nad’s mad: - to Hunt:

    3/4 Your pandemic preparation during six years as health secretary was found wanting and inadequate.Your duplicity right now in destabilising the party and country to serve your own personal ambition, more so.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763409627566080

    On afternoon of 23rd July 2020 when I was health minister you telephoned me to tell me that we had to handle the pandemic following the example set by the East/China. That people testing + should be removed from their homes and placed into isolation hotels for two weeks.

    You said yr wife’s family had experience of this during SARS. I said that British people would never tolerate being removed from their homes and loved ones at which point you demanded I show you the evidence for that. Your handling of the pandemic would have been a disaster.


    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763407970816002
    If there's an iota of truth in that, its truly shocking. Thank goodness Hunt wasn't PM is so. 😲
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811
    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Brown didn't have it, he tried to cling on after losing in 2010.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Jonathan said:

    All this talk of potential successors just underlines how Boris hollowed out the Conservative party. There is no strong cabinet successor. There is no new strand of Conservative thinking waiting in the wings to set out a new direction.

    The cabinet rivals are deliberately very weak and the populist stuff has drowned out the intellectuals, half of whom were sacked.

    Boris has prepared well for this moment.

    Considering some his supporters think it is literally treachery to go against him, the implication he's like a dictator who keeps the army weak so it cannot challenge him, but keeping the party and cabinet weak, is not as silly as it should be.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    MaxPB said:

    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Brown didn't have it, he tried to cling on after losing in 2010.
    Brown can take a lot of flak, but not that. His constitutional duty was to stay in office until it was clear that someone could form a government. As soon as that was clear, he left.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Penddu2 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    “4/4You told others that PM and Gov would swiftly collapse on back of Brexit and you would swoop in. You told me as much in Victoria St after GE. If you had been leader you’d have handed the keys of No10 to Corbyn. You’ve been wrong about almost everything, you are wrong again now”

    ..from Nadine Dorries. Ugh. The Johnson cultists will burn the whole house down

    No, she's only taking out Hunt - he was never going to win anyway.
    Quite a successful assault, there

    If this is all true about Hunt it casts a lot of shade

    This leaves Mordaunt v Truss? Maybe Sunak still in with a shout?
    Nadine is quite good at attack lines. Remember 'arrogant posh boys who don't know the price of milk'.
    Dorries-Mogg dream ticket.
    That would certainly be the preferred ticket from the point of view of Labour/Plaid/SNP......
    Tories thought that about Corbyn until 2017, even if he was eventually clearly beaten in 2019
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    It's 4/1 that Johnson loses tonight with Betfair Exchange.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.199959695

    Poor value if you think it's 10% though.
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.

    Brady's a fair umpire, nixxes a potential plan "Let Mogg take care of your proxy vote"...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,591

    Heathener said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Heathener said:

    Stereodog said:

    Heathener said:

    @PennyMordaunt
    Today I will be attending Portsmouth’s commemoration service to remember the efforts and sacrifice of #DDay. Privilege to have met so many who took part and proud of #Portsmouth role. #DDay78


    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1533727319466119169

    Classy from our next PM....
    Has due diligence been done on Mourdant? She would be a right wing leader, so not not a unifier in the party or someone whose idealism and instinct would be to tack to the centre?
    Yeah but she also has a real gritty working class background.

    She's a very dangerous prospect for Labour. She eviscerated Angela Rayner and I suspect she would look very impressive up against Starmer.

    She'd be capable of winning the centre voters as well as the red wall: all that military background is perfect and unlike Boris it's for real.

    I think she's hugely impressive and if she were to win a GE I'd be pretty chilled about it, unlike most other Conservatives.

    She'd be very dangerous for Labour.
    Does she have a gritty working class background? One of her ancestors was involved in a famous Victorian divorce case involving the Prince of Wales.
    She's got big-time military credentials,.
    Why is this important?

    It's not even true. She is a S/Lt(Acting) in the RNR which means she has crossed Portsmouth Harbour in a P2000.
    She's the daughter of a para, grew up in a military home, is a Royal Navy reservist and is even named after a navy ship. She was Defence Secretary, represents a very military minded constituency and is constantly doing things in and around military and defence matters - today being another example.

    It matters because she's far more authentic to the red wall voters than Boris would ever be.

    Anyway, I've said quite enough about her. I want a Labour Government, no matter how much I admire her.
    I agree that Mordaunt is an interesting one, and far from typical centre-left reasons of my most regular perspective. There's some sense that she has had more of a struggle to get where she she is than many modern politicians, but also displays some more human, and arguably also female in the best sense qualities, than many others ; some signs of a specifically female kind of emotional intelligence alongside the steeliness. Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy have some hints of the same thing, too.

    As someone who will vote Labour next time, I don't want a Tory victory and think she might make it more likely, but I still think she's a better candidate - and possibly person - than several others.
    It would be hilarious if the Conservatives got their *third* female PM whilst Labour have not even managed to have a female leader (*).

    (*) Yes, I am not including 'acting' leaders, so Beckett and Harman do not count.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    "Johnson loses" has been matched at 5.0 on Smarkets (I've had a nibble, at that level it's surely value).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.

    Oh the laughs if Team Johnson void all their own supporters votes by demanding they try and take a sneaky photo!
  • theakestheakes Posts: 930
    He will have to be dragged screaming out of Downing Street!!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    I have been nose to the grindstone working all over the long bank holiday....have i missed much?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Speaker has granted three UQs today @RachelReevesMP on North Sea oil and gas producers use of investment allowances; @IanByrneMP on problems arising at the Champions League Final on 28 May in Paris and Fiona Bruce on the killing of church worshippers in Ondo State Nigeria

    https://twitter.com/PARLYapp/status/1533776005873147905
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Quite so. Boris is actually not that bad as PM, per se

    Of course if you think Brexit is the greatest British disaster since the Somme then you will think he is terrible, but try and set that aside and you are left with a very good campaigner, who won two brilliant victories (the referendum and the 2019 GE) who crushed Corbynism and has shown himself notably superior to most of his European counterparts in several crucial areas: vaccines to beat Covid, taking his nation out of lockdown, and serious support for Ukraine. He also brought off AUKUS

    That makes him far better than Brown and TMay, to my mind. Probably better than Cameron?

    Unfortunately he has deep personal flaws which are proving to be fatal. Mainly, he needs to be liked. I am pretty sure this is Why partygate. He didn’t want to be the balloon-popping naysayer in Number 10, it’s not his style, so he let it all get out of hand, and turned an indulgent blind eye. So his staff would like him. Ooops

    Also, he has no socio-economic vision for the country. None. Levelling up is all rhetoric and bluff. What else? A bridge to Rockall? A space centre for Newent? Meanwhile his government, like the PM himself, spaffs money everywhere

    One day we will be sufficiently far beyond Brexit that Boris will get a fair appraisal, and history will be surprisingly kind, I reckon. But we won’t achieve this neutral perspective for a looooooong time

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    A decisive Boris win would be interesting. It would at least stop the pretence the party thinks he has done anything poorly.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Have the whips taken away Nad's phone yet?

    She has just written the opposition attack ads for years to come...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,507
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @PennyMordaunt
    Today I will be attending Portsmouth’s commemoration service to remember the efforts and sacrifice of #DDay. Privilege to have met so many who took part and proud of #Portsmouth role. #DDay78


    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1533727319466119169

    Classy from our next PM....
    Has due diligence been done on Mourdant? She would be a right wing leader, so not not a unifier in the party or someone whose idealism and instinct would be to tack to the centre?
    There is no chance the membership will elect anyone who is not as committed to a hard Brexit as Johnson is, in fact they just want someone who is more pro low taxes and low spending than Johnson as well and tougher on immigration and ideally less carbon net zero obsessed.

    So forget any leader winning who will be left of Johnson and anti Brexit
    But Johnson is being sacked today because he has messed up Brexit - it’s too hard and business want it watered down. that’s the truth underlying all this isn’t it, Tories have no choice now but to install a government to give business the changes they want to Brexit, in order to ever win again?
    Rubbish, you are deluded if you think the Tory membership will elect anyone who is not as pro hard a Brexit as Johnson if not more so.

    That is the Tory voting coalition primarily now, hard Leavers and lose them to Farage again and they would be left with nothing
    I’m DELUDED to see continued Brexit fault line in voters, MPs and party members, and deluded suspecting the new non Boris government may cuddle up to business again post Boris and tweak the current Brexit deal accordingly? 🙂
    It won't as Tory members will not elect a leader who wants to align to EU regulations again and certainly not one who would restore free movement.
    Let’s be clear what you are saying, because you are not being clear. None of the platforms laid out in the leadership election will look for improvements in current Brexit deal to help British business prosper and grow the economy? Or that some candidates will phrase it just like this, but then get splendidly rejected by MPs and Party Members for not swearing loyalty to keep Boris Brexit deal unscathed?

    So the Tory party remains at distance from Businesses and businesses needs? it remains ravaged in Remainia voting areas where it now cannot compete?

    You still think I’m deluded for thinking Brexit plays a part in this?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    👀 A Tory MP on Govt payroll: “I think it’s going to be far, far closer than many people expect. If the PM does worse than TMay [who won vote by 63%], it’s curtains...

    “I’ve been through a list of colleagues... The absolute max I can see for the rebels is 170 [i.e. 53% for PM].”

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1533777143423029248
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    It's gonna be 52:48. isn't it...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Andy_JS said:

    It's 4/1 that Johnson loses tonight with Betfair Exchange.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.199959695

    All very interesting. What remains is a bit of a mystery - with everyone expecting Boris to win.

    Everyone knows that a Boris win won't close down anything ar all - the matter remains hot until he goes. His position is not recoverable. All Tory MPs know that.

    So what is the reasoning, however defective, behind voting for him to stay in terms of either personal or collective Tory interest?

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's 4/1 that Johnson loses tonight with Betfair Exchange.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.199959695

    Poor value if you think it's 10% though.
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.

    Brady's a fair umpire, nixxes a potential plan "Let Mogg take care of your proxy vote"...
    Starting to wonder whether 10% is a bit on the low side.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    Penddu2 said:

    I think Boris will temporarily survive tonight - but with enough voting against him (160 is my prediction) that would be fatally wounding for any normal/rational person - but he will bluster on ...and on...and on... and drag this charade out for another month before being kicked out anyway. More popcorn needed

    Possibly, yes. I agree there’s no way back. There’s no way that Johnson isn’t wounded. Maybe he limps on for a while longer, but how do you fight an election when x% of your own MPs don’t have confidence in you, where x is not small.

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    edited June 2022

    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.

    Oh the laughs if Team Johnson void all their own supporters votes by demanding they try and take a sneaky photo!
    Crosses my mind whether Team Johnson is sufficiently nefarious to leak some (faked) photos of opponents' ballot papers to get those voided? :wink:
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @PennyMordaunt
    Today I will be attending Portsmouth’s commemoration service to remember the efforts and sacrifice of #DDay. Privilege to have met so many who took part and proud of #Portsmouth role. #DDay78


    https://twitter.com/PennyMordaunt/status/1533727319466119169

    Classy from our next PM....
    Has due diligence been done on Mourdant? She would be a right wing leader, so not not a unifier in the party or someone whose idealism and instinct would be to tack to the centre?
    There is no chance the membership will elect anyone who is not as committed to a hard Brexit as Johnson is, in fact they just want someone who is more pro low taxes and low spending than Johnson as well and tougher on immigration and ideally less carbon net zero obsessed.

    So forget any leader winning who will be left of Johnson and anti Brexit
    But Johnson is being sacked today because he has messed up Brexit - it’s too hard and business want it watered down. that’s the truth underlying all this isn’t it, Tories have no choice now but to install a government to give business the changes they want to Brexit, in order to ever win again?
    Rubbish, you are deluded if you think the Tory membership will elect anyone who is not as pro hard a Brexit as Johnson if not more so.

    That is the Tory voting coalition primarily now, hard Leavers and lose them to Farage again and they would be left with nothing
    I’m DELUDED to see continued Brexit fault line in voters, MPs and party members, and deluded suspecting the new non Boris government may cuddle up to business again post Boris and tweak the current Brexit deal accordingly? 🙂
    It won't as Tory members will not elect a leader who wants to align to EU regulations again and certainly not one who would restore free movement.
    Let’s be clear what you are saying, because you are not being clear. None of the platforms laid out in the leadership election will look for improvements in current Brexit deal to help British business prosper and grow the economy? Or that some candidates will phrase it just like this, but then get splendidly rejected by MPs and Party Members for not swearing loyalty to keep Boris Brexit deal unscathed?

    So the Tory party remains at distance from Businesses and businesses needs? it remains ravaged in Remainia voting areas where it now cannot compete?

    You still think I’m deluded for thinking Brexit plays a part in this?
    It will certainly play a part.

    But it won't be the all-consuming issue that it was in 2019.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    algarkirk said:

    All very interesting. What remains is a bit of a mystery - with everyone expecting Boris to win.

    Everyone knows that a Boris win won't close down anything ar all - the matter remains hot until he goes. His position is not recoverable. All Tory MPs know that.

    So what is the reasoning, however defective, behind voting for him to stay in terms of either personal or collective Tory interest?

    It facilitates the Great Purge (again)

    Traitors can be expunged, and true believers promoted.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,651
    Andy_JS said:
    Looks value to me. I would judge it a coin toss.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Quite so. Boris is actually not that bad as PM, per se

    Of course if you think Brexit is the greatest British disaster since the Somme then you will think he is terrible, but try and set that aside and you are left with a very good campaigner, who won two brilliant victories (the referendum and the 2019 GE) who crushed Corbynism and has shown himself notably superior to most of his European counterparts in several crucial areas: vaccines to beat Covid, taking his nation out of lockdown, and serious support for Ukraine. He also brought off AUKUS

    That makes him far better than Brown and TMay, to my mind. Probably better than Cameron?

    Unfortunately he has deep personal flaws which are proving to be fatal. Mainly, he needs to be liked. I am pretty sure this is Why partygate. He didn’t want to be the balloon-popping naysayer in Number 10, it’s not his style, so he let it all get out of hand, and turned an indulgent blind eye. So his staff would like him. Ooops

    Also, he has no socio-economic vision for the country. None. Levelling up is all rhetoric and bluff. What else? A bridge to Rockall? A space centre for Newent? Meanwhile his government, like the PM himself, spaffs money everywhere

    One day we will be sufficiently far beyond Brexit that Boris will get a fair appraisal, and history will be surprisingly kind, I reckon. But we won’t achieve this neutral perspective for a looooooong time

    Our Tune still playing in the background of Leon's posts.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    Aslan said:

    Tory MPs are actually idiots if they let Boris survive this.
    What they say public is not necessarily what they do in private
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    Any of the Cabinet broken ranks? Any having a wisdom tooth removed?


  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,811
    This is the advantage of the in person only vote - Graham Brady can ask MPs to hand their phones in before they vote to ensure the ballot stays secret. Team Pig Dog can get fucked with their attempts to break the secrecy of the ballot, it just shows that they realise the vote will be lost.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    + @ConHome survey on how MPs should vote today will be posted by 15.30.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1533777398600290307
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Labour source, watching the blue on blue...

    "As the Tories fight one another like rats in a sack, it is the country that it suffering.

    “But at least some truths are emerging...


    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nadine-dorries-admits-tories-pandemic-preparation-was-inadequate-for-six-years_uk_629ddf5be4b016c4eefb932c

    "...including cabinet ministers finally admitting that a decade of Tory government left Britain badly exposed to the pandemic."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Mad Nad’s mad: - to Hunt:

    3/4 Your pandemic preparation during six years as health secretary was found wanting and inadequate.Your duplicity right now in destabilising the party and country to serve your own personal ambition, more so.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763409627566080

    On afternoon of 23rd July 2020 when I was health minister you telephoned me to tell me that we had to handle the pandemic following the example set by the East/China. That people testing + should be removed from their homes and placed into isolation hotels for two weeks.

    You said yr wife’s family had experience of this during SARS. I said that British people would never tolerate being removed from their homes and loved ones at which point you demanded I show you the evidence for that. Your handling of the pandemic would have been a disaster.


    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763407970816002
    If there's an iota of truth in that, its truly shocking. Thank goodness Hunt wasn't PM is so. 😲
    Perhaps, though I'd be interested to find out what he actually said.

    Of course had they taken that approach with the patients discharged from hospitals at the start of the pandemic, it might have saved many thousands of lives in care homes.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Nadine Dorries is obviously not fit for Cabinet but she certainly has Hunt’s number right. The only reason people think he’d be a superior PM to either May or Johnson is because they have been turned bat shit crazy by Brexit. He’d be an unmitigated cluster
  • Scott_xP said:

    It's gonna be 52:48. isn't it...

    It has to be, would be fun.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Sir Keir Starmer has said the 'vast majority' of women 'of course don't have a penis' and should be provided with 'safe spaces'.

    He really is a twat , he always has to try and sit on the fence and end up looking stupid.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Boris is going nowhere.

    The PCP aren't just pathetic, spineless, quivering cowards – they are also certifiably insane.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Loyal and rebel MPs alike seem a bit bemused by the relatively low intensity of the operation to shore up Johnson so far https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1533778023492853760
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    geoffw said:

    Mad Nad’s mad: - to Hunt:

    3/4 Your pandemic preparation during six years as health secretary was found wanting and inadequate.Your duplicity right now in destabilising the party and country to serve your own personal ambition, more so.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763409627566080

    On afternoon of 23rd July 2020 when I was health minister you telephoned me to tell me that we had to handle the pandemic following the example set by the East/China. That people testing + should be removed from their homes and placed into isolation hotels for two weeks.

    You said yr wife’s family had experience of this during SARS. I said that British people would never tolerate being removed from their homes and loved ones at which point you demanded I show you the evidence for that. Your handling of the pandemic would have been a disaster.


    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763407970816002
    Quite damning.
    Quite damning if it came from anyone else. Not quite as damning coming from Dorries, who, be it from stupidity or duplicity, is not a credible witness.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Quite so. Boris is actually not that bad as PM, per se

    Of course if you think Brexit is the greatest British disaster since the Somme then you will think he is terrible, but try and set that aside and you are left with a very good campaigner, who won two brilliant victories (the referendum and the 2019 GE) who crushed Corbynism and has shown himself notably superior to most of his European counterparts in several crucial areas: vaccines to beat Covid, taking his nation out of lockdown, and serious support for Ukraine. He also brought off AUKUS

    That makes him far better than Brown and TMay, to my mind. Probably better than Cameron?

    Unfortunately he has deep personal flaws which are proving to be fatal. Mainly, he needs to be liked. I am pretty sure this is Why partygate. He didn’t want to be the balloon-popping naysayer in Number 10, it’s not his style, so he let it all get out of hand, and turned an indulgent blind eye. So his staff would like him. Ooops

    Also, he has no socio-economic vision for the country. None. Levelling up is all rhetoric and bluff. What else? A bridge to Rockall? A space centre for Newent? Meanwhile his government, like the PM himself, spaffs money everywhere

    One day we will be sufficiently far beyond Brexit that Boris will get a fair appraisal, and history will be surprisingly kind, I reckon. But we won’t achieve this neutral perspective for a looooooong time

    Nah, it will be the opposite. Once he is stripped of his power and the memory of his shtick has faded, in the cold hard light of day he will be seen as having been pitifully inadequate and to have achieved little other than sowing multiple problems for his successors to try and resolve.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Does Sir Graham Brady Old Lady still have his eyes on the top job?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.

    Quite right too, and I'd entirely expect "Big Dog" to try to intimidate.

    Frisking and phones/smart watches confiscated on entry, IMHO.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    edited June 2022
    Alistair said:

    Whilst this is all very fun there's no way he actually loses the Confidence Vote is there?

    I can see plausible arguments either way. I'm surprised so many are so sure one way or the other. The betting odds are extraordinarily strongly in his favour.

    It's amazing that we're less than 30 months from him winning an 80-seat majority and they're holding a vote though.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    NEW: Polling by @OpiniumResearch finds 59% of people think MPs should vote against the Prime Minister tonight, vs. 28% who think they should vote to keep him. 71% think Boris Johnson is untrustworthy, 65% incompetent and 55% dislike him.
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1533779563670536192
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,041

    + @ConHome survey on how MPs should vote today will be posted by 15.30.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1533777398600290307

    Just voted in that - out and out now
  • Nigelb said:

    Mad Nad’s mad: - to Hunt:

    3/4 Your pandemic preparation during six years as health secretary was found wanting and inadequate.Your duplicity right now in destabilising the party and country to serve your own personal ambition, more so.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763409627566080

    On afternoon of 23rd July 2020 when I was health minister you telephoned me to tell me that we had to handle the pandemic following the example set by the East/China. That people testing + should be removed from their homes and placed into isolation hotels for two weeks.

    You said yr wife’s family had experience of this during SARS. I said that British people would never tolerate being removed from their homes and loved ones at which point you demanded I show you the evidence for that. Your handling of the pandemic would have been a disaster.


    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763407970816002
    If there's an iota of truth in that, its truly shocking. Thank goodness Hunt wasn't PM is so. 😲
    Perhaps, though I'd be interested to find out what he actually said.

    Of course had they taken that approach with the patients discharged from hospitals at the start of the pandemic, it might have saved many thousands of lives in care homes.
    I doubt it.

    If the virus is present in the community then staff would inevitably bring it in anyway.

    Grim reality is care residents would die with this virus and did in every nation that had the virus widespread.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Quite so. Boris is actually not that bad as PM, per se

    Of course if you think Brexit is the greatest British disaster since the Somme then you will think he is terrible, but try and set that aside and you are left with a very good campaigner, who won two brilliant victories (the referendum and the 2019 GE) who crushed Corbynism and has shown himself notably superior to most of his European counterparts in several crucial areas: vaccines to beat Covid, taking his nation out of lockdown, and serious support for Ukraine. He also brought off AUKUS

    That makes him far better than Brown and TMay, to my mind. Probably better than Cameron?

    Unfortunately he has deep personal flaws which are proving to be fatal. Mainly, he needs to be liked. I am pretty sure this is Why partygate. He didn’t want to be the balloon-popping naysayer in Number 10, it’s not his style, so he let it all get out of hand, and turned an indulgent blind eye. So his staff would like him. Ooops

    Also, he has no socio-economic vision for the country. None. Levelling up is all rhetoric and bluff. What else? A bridge to Rockall? A space centre for Newent? Meanwhile his government, like the PM himself, spaffs money everywhere

    One day we will be sufficiently far beyond Brexit that Boris will get a fair appraisal, and history will be surprisingly kind, I reckon. But we won’t achieve this neutral perspective for a looooooong time

    Nah, it will be the opposite. Once he is stripped of his power and the memory of his shtick has faded, in the cold hard light of day he will be seen as having been pitifully inadequate and to have achieved little other than sowing multiple problems for his successors to try and resolve.
    QED
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's 4/1 that Johnson loses tonight with Betfair Exchange.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.199959695

    Poor value if you think it's 10% though.
    Nigelb said:

    I wonder what prompted this ?

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1533736317296812032
    New- just seen an interesting email to MPs from Sir Graham Brady- who is running tonight’s confidence vote as chair of the 1922 committee. A big warning about it being confidential- and no pics of ballot papers to be taken or vote void

    Allegedly, Team Big Dog has been demanding loyalists prove their loyalty by breaking the secrecy of the ballot.

    Brady's a fair umpire, nixxes a potential plan "Let Mogg take care of your proxy vote"...
    Starting to wonder whether 10% is a bit on the low side.
    It is but it's far more likely Tory MPs bottle it than not.

    If there were a clear alternative polling much better he'd already be gone.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Only 53% of Conservative voters think Boris Johnson should stay on. If the same proportion of Tory MPs agree, that sort of result would almost certainly be the end of the PM’s career.
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1533779821058195456
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    kjh said:

    Something that just struck me - Brown and May were awful prime ministers. In some ways worse than Boris eg Brown dithered endlessly and May was so stubborn, but I didn't feel so strongly about either as I do about Boris. I suspect that is down to honour. They had it, he doesn't.

    Brown didn't have it, he tried to cling on after losing in 2010.
    Brown can take a lot of flak, but not that. His constitutional duty was to stay in office until it was clear that someone could form a government. As soon as that was clear, he left.
    It never makes any sense to me people hold that against him.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Are there any polls other than this one ?
    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1533772838808723458

    If that's an accurate reflection of public opinion, Tory MPs would be utterly mad to ignore it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Timeless tweet

    Well, I'd like to see ol Boris Johnson wriggle his way out of THIS jam!
    *Boris wriggles his way out of the jam easily *
    Ah! Well. Nevertheless
    ,

    https://twitter.com/mtrc/status/1151531475336081408?t=YA15xwb0JPTN5zQElgGYZg&s=19
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    Alistair said:

    Whilst this is all very fun there's no way he actually loses the Confidence Vote is there?

    I can see plausible arguments either way. I'm surprised so many are so sure one way or the other. The betting odds are extraordinarily strongly in his favour.

    It's amazing that we're less than 30 months from him winning an 80-seat majority and they're holding a vote though.
    It's pretty much a direct consequence of him having done the things he was elected to do.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2022

    geoffw said:

    Mad Nad’s mad: - to Hunt:

    3/4 Your pandemic preparation during six years as health secretary was found wanting and inadequate.Your duplicity right now in destabilising the party and country to serve your own personal ambition, more so.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763409627566080

    On afternoon of 23rd July 2020 when I was health minister you telephoned me to tell me that we had to handle the pandemic following the example set by the East/China. That people testing + should be removed from their homes and placed into isolation hotels for two weeks.

    You said yr wife’s family had experience of this during SARS. I said that British people would never tolerate being removed from their homes and loved ones at which point you demanded I show you the evidence for that. Your handling of the pandemic would have been a disaster.


    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1533763407970816002
    Quite damning.
    Quite damning if it came from anyone else. Not quite as damning coming from Dorries, who, be it from stupidity or duplicity, is not a credible witness.
    As I said, I'd be very interested to know what he actually said.
    It's possibly true, and also possibly a pack of either lies or distortions.

    That we have no real idea which, is the essence of the Johnson government.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    edited June 2022
    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.

    Sunak
    Truss
    Patel
    Javid
    Hunt
    Hammond
    May
    Raab
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    Scott_xP said:

    It's gonna be 52:48. isn't it...

    A resounding majority and a clear mandate for change then…
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    🚨 This will not ease nerves in Downing Street...

    By 12:16pm, Theresa May had got to the public backing of the 158 Tory MPs she needed to win confidence vote

    It is now 1pm and Boris Johnson is only up to 82


    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1533775006051753986
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Dura_Ace said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    mwadams said:

    moonshine said:

    Predictions time.

    Boris to lose. Wallace will quickly emerge as the unifying compromise candidate. Probably no members vote.

    I guess he’d think he needs to make Truss Chancellor. He’d want someone he can trust in defence, most likely Tugenhat. And he’d offer Hunt his old job of foreign sec back if he wanted it. Someone like Steve Baker in a prominent job to keep the Brexit balance, as JRM would be out on his arse too. Sunak off to California by the next election. Johnson Chiltern Hundreds by the end of summer.

    I think "no members vote" would be sensible option (time of crisis, strong and stable...err...). However, I suspect that a Tory Corbyn will stand.
    Not happening, if Boris goes then Patel, Raab and Truss and Gove will all certainly stand hoping to get through to the membership and win even if Hunt or Sunak win the MPs vote.

    Wallace maybe too
    Have I missed any possible candidates

    Yes, you missed one.


    Denis Healey? He still alive?
  • Scott_xP said:

    🚨 This will not ease nerves in Downing Street...

    By 12:16pm, Theresa May had got to the public backing of the 158 Tory MPs she needed to win confidence vote

    It is now 1pm and Boris Johnson is only up to 82


    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1533775006051753986

    Dun dun dun ...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,651
    Aslan said:

    Tory MPs are actually idiots if they let Boris survive this.
    So nailed on then? 😀
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Just spoke to a @BorisJohnson supporter who hopes the number of MPs calling for him to go will be under 100. At that rate the MP thinks he will be fine. But the MP fears 120 no votes which means PM would struggle. If it is 150 or more no votes then the PM “is finished”
    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1533781685141217284
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,663
    edited June 2022

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.

    Sunak
    Truss
    Patel
    Javid
    Hunt
    Hammond
    May
    Raab
    Hammond. :smile:
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    + @ConHome survey on how MPs should vote today will be posted by 15.30.

    https://twitter.com/PaulGoodmanCH/status/1533777398600290307

    Just voted in that - out and out now
    That’s two of us then.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Fascinatingly, Starmer's lay odds have declined from 8.8 to 5.9 in the next PM market.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    Alistair said:

    Timeless tweet

    Well, I'd like to see ol Boris Johnson wriggle his way out of THIS jam!
    *Boris wriggles his way out of the jam easily *
    Ah! Well. Nevertheless
    ,

    https://twitter.com/mtrc/status/1151531475336081408?t=YA15xwb0JPTN5zQElgGYZg&s=19

    That link led to this trivia post…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/_AstroErika/status/1533178823335940096
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    I wonder if he will ?

    I understand the Tory MP accused of rape will be allowed to vote in today's confidence vote in Boris Johnson.

    It is because he has not had the whip suspended

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1533754523604361218
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The result of the confidence vote in the Prime Minister will be announced at precisely nine o’clock this evening.

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/1533780443924992000
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 This will not ease nerves in Downing Street...

    By 12:16pm, Theresa May had got to the public backing of the 158 Tory MPs she needed to win confidence vote

    It is now 1pm and Boris Johnson is only up to 82


    https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1533775006051753986

    FWIW I think Boris will lose tonight, despite the odds, and have bet modestly accordingly.

    This does rely a bit on the anonymity of the poll, and on the sanity of enough MPs.

    Basis: There is a rational case for dropping Boris; and no rational case for keeping him. And no certainty of a second chance to act. Simples. (If I am wrong on the case for keeping him, no PBer has yet made it).

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Did we do this ?

    I’m sorry to have to resign as the PM’s Anti-Corruption Tsar but, after his reply last week about the Ministerial Code, it’s pretty clear he has broken it. That’s a resigning matter for me, and it should be for the PM too. Here’s my letter to him explaining why.
    https://twitter.com/JohnPenroseNews/status/1533753928483061760
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Arthur Balfour is the last one.
    Campbell-Bannerman, Cameron and MacDonald only had LOTO experience
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    algarkirk said:

    FWIW I think Boris will lose tonight, despite the odds, and have bet modestly accordingly.

    This does rely a bit on the anonymity of the poll, and on the sanity of enough MPs.

    Basis: There is a rational case for dropping Boris; and no rational case for keeping him. And no certainty of a second chance to act. Simples. (If I am wrong on the case for keeping him, no PBer has yet made it).

    The comment editor of the Telegraph made the same assessment earlier
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    There's another western leader who even more richly deserves the order of the boot.

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1533750041449488387
    The German government is not supplying tanks to Ukraine because it fears that Ukrainian troops could use them to invade Russia, reported Spiegel, citing its sources.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    What was Margaret Thatcher? I thought she was education secretary?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    A guide, sure, but always remember https://xkcd.com/1122/

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    What was Margaret Thatcher? I thought she was education secretary?
    Leader of the Opposition.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    What was Margaret Thatcher? I thought she was education secretary?
    Leader of the Opposition
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,433
    Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    What was Margaret Thatcher? I thought she was education secretary?
    Leader of the Opposition.
    Ah, I see.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    What was Margaret Thatcher? I thought she was education secretary?
    LotO
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Are we going to do a tally of who on PB thinks what.

    I think Boris loses. My reasoning is that it will (indeed has already been) one damn thing after another and if they keep him it is only a matter of time before he Borises up again and we are back to where we started all the while the polls tanking.

    He has tainted the party and although has had successes that was then and we are left with a very flawed leader.*

    Took the 5.1 bf at modest levels.

    *Of course we always were but it is becoming more transparent to people by the day.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Unless I've made a mistake, for at least the last 100 years, to become PM you have to have been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For. Sec.

    That narrow's down the runners and riders.
    For at least the last 100 years, those who have become PM had been LoO, CoE, Home Sec, For Sec. It’s a pattern, not a rule.

    Not a rule, but perhaps a helpful guide. 8 potential candidates.

    From that list Javid or Patel look like the ones to watch.
    What was Margaret Thatcher? I thought she was education secretary?
    Yep shadow 67 to 70 then education and science in the Heath adminnstration. Former PPS to Pension minister and later shadow environment before leader of the opp
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited June 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Are we going to do a tally of who on PB thinks what.

    I think Boris loses. My reasoning is that it will (indeed has already been) one damn thing after another and if they keep him it is only a matter of time before he Borises up again and we are back to where we started all the while the polls tanking.

    He has tainted the party and although has had successes that was then and we are left with a very flawed leader.*

    Took the 5.1 bf at modest levels.

    *Of course we always were but it is becoming more transparent to people by the day.

    Have bet similarly, but mainly on out before the party conference.

    It was interesting that the odds on that lengthened significantly after the VONC was called, reflecting the view (presumably) that the snap vote greatly favours Johnson.
    I'm not convinced by that assumption, and increased my stake accordingly.

    Also had a smaller dabble on tonight's vote.

    FWIW.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Conservative MP tells me that a significant amount of arm twisting is going on to get them to tweet support for Boris Johnson. The ring round is in full swing.
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1533785552503418881
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    TOPPING said:

    Are we going to do a tally of who on PB thinks what.

    I think Boris loses. My reasoning is that it will (indeed has already been) one damn thing after another and if they keep him it is only a matter of time before he Borises up again and we are back to where we started all the while the polls tanking.

    He has tainted the party and although has had successes that was then and we are left with a very flawed leader.*

    Took the 5.1 bf at modest levels.

    *Of course we always were but it is becoming more transparent to people by the day.

    I think taking 5.1 was sensible. I think he wins, but not convincingly, but I think the probability of a straight loss is >20%. I don’t think he leads the Conservatives into the next general election. I have not bet myself.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,258
    TOPPING said:

    Are we going to do a tally of who on PB thinks what.

    I think Boris loses. My reasoning is that it will (indeed has already been) one damn thing after another and if they keep him it is only a matter of time before he Borises up again and we are back to where we started all the while the polls tanking.

    He has tainted the party and although has had successes that was then and we are left with a very flawed leader.*

    Took the 5.1 bf at modest levels.

    *Of course we always were but it is becoming more transparent to people by the day.

    I think he loses. Not that many people have been willing to go public in support, implying that everyone is hedging their bets. I very much suspect that the hedgers will be more inclined to vote against provided they think he is toast… it is all about momentum and inevitability. And I don’t think he has it.

    Once the king can no longer punish you he is no longer the king
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    "Ms Mordaunt, a trade minister and MP for Portsmouth North, did not explicitly say how she would vote during tonight’s secret ballot" from today in @portsmouthnews https://twitter.com/pn_tomcotterill/status/1533783036906586113
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Jonathan said:

    When was the last time someone became PM without having held one of the great offices of state or Leader of the Opposition? We have to go back quite a long way I think.

    Arthur Balfour is the last one.
    Campbell-Bannerman, Cameron and MacDonald only had LOTO experience
    And Blair and Thatcher. SKS would be the same too.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    In the last 100 years only Cameron and MacDonald had no ministerial experience at all, MacDonald taking on FS at the same time as PM.
    Cameron had just 7 months as shadow education minister

    Edit - and Blair.....! Forgot him
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    There was once another tradition in the Conservative party - that talked of prudence, dignity and restraint.
    Boris Johnson shames the party, and our country.
    He cannot govern.
    Let him go.

    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1533726721077280768
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Today I learned what SKS's middle name is. What a plonker...
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