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The Tories look set to lose both June 23rd by-elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    This all needs a really innocuous weird moment to define it.
    Like a bit where the Queen holds up a spark plug and we all sing Onward Christian Soldiers

    For me it was the men in gold coats banging twin kettle drums on huge shire horses

    What more do you want?? A silver toad dancing on a flute played by the late Keith Chegwin? That happens only on years ending in a 3
    I would like that for the FA cup final so the 'pool can boo it
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
    As armed forces must have highest quota of gay and trans people of any profession, should hope the thought and care is there in ministry of defence for that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,279
    Duke of Kent looking spry there

    It's like any moment he might jump off the balcony and ride off on a horse, like one of those amateur matadors who leaps off the bleachers and joins the corrida
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
    I think the vets with the castration knives do it for them.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Woman who stands zilch chance of retaining her high profile cabinet job in a change, against change shocker!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/priti-patel-jubilee-celebrations-mps-plotting-no-confidence-letters

    It doesn't sound much like she's against change to me. Where's her glowing endorsement of Bojo as the man to lead us to the sunlit uplands? She's saying just enough to appear sort of loyal,which basically amounts to keeping a lid on it for the duration of the jubilee.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    JAFFA!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    Duke of Kent looking spry there

    It's like any moment he might jump off the balcony and ride off on a horse, like one of those amateur matadors who leaps off the bleachers and joins the corrida

    Hes not doing much to dispel the Icke theory, weird looking old newt
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    But this is meant to be the very heart of North London metro left elitism - as reflected in house prices - so it's disappointing.

    But as I say, I'll pop over for an hour or so. You have to do things you'd rather not sometimes. It's part of life.
    What's so funny about your posts is that they're not ironic.
    TBF I think he is trolling us here. At least I hope he is
    I'm not sure he is.
    Indeed I'm not trolling. I used to do some of that on here but have long since realized it's best to be sincere and authentic. Fact is, there *is* a shock Jubilee "street party" round my way, and despite my feelings about it I *am* going to pop over briefly when it gets going. Didn't expect brickbats for this (imo admirable) attitude.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leach out with concussion, we can have a sub
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Thanks everyone on your feedback on what to see in Lisbon and Faro. Appreciated.

    Trooping the colour was rather impressive. Looking forward to the fly pass which hopefully will go over our house.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    Anyhoo, thanks to Her Majesty for the extra bank holiday.

    Spending it with the other half.

    God Save The Queen.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,279
    The Youtube commentary on this is hilarious. A mix of wonder, spite, pride, determinedly apathetic republicanism, madness, confusion, British irony, Welsh aggressions, animal rights angst, anti-racism, glee, patriotism, trolling, bewildered Filipinos, and people almost as furious as Dura Ace
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,215
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    But this is meant to be the very heart of North London metro left elitism - as reflected in house prices - so it's disappointing.

    But as I say, I'll pop over for an hour or so. You have to do things you'd rather not sometimes. It's part of life.
    What's so funny about your posts is that they're not ironic.
    TBF I think he is trolling us here. At least I hope he is
    I'm not sure he is.
    Indeed I'm not trolling. I used to do some of that on here but have long since realized it's best to be sincere and authentic. Fact is, there *is* a shock Jubilee "street party" round my way, and despite my feelings about it I *am* going to pop over briefly when it gets going. Didn't expect brickbats for this (imo admirable) attitude.
    You get brickbats for that rogue 'z' though.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    Forced abdication. The firm is pretty good at self policing, they got rid of Edward VIII with more ruthlessness than the Tories have with Boris.
    And there were significant doubts about Mr Simpson’s replacement - which is what also appears to be staying Tory hands.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    Before cigarettes were banned in most places I always had the impression smokers were happier than everyone else despite their bad health effects.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    I’m definitely working hard this afternoon, absolutely don’t have the Jubilee on one screen and the cricket on the other…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    kjh said:

    Thanks everyone on your feedback on what to see in Lisbon and Faro. Appreciated.

    Trooping the colour was rather impressive. Looking forward to the fly pass which hopefully will go over our house.

    Friend of mine who also likes aeroplanes went there. There is a curious memorial to the first plane crossing of the Atlantic (by a Portugee?) on the quayside or something - also some sort of observatory/museum from the Era of Discoveries. The Belem Tower. He sent me a postcard. The plane is in the park nearby. If you like planes, it will appeal - if not, probably not!
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    rcs1000 said:


    Referendums are painful.

    But if you want a constitutional change as significant as - say - changing the Westminster voting system then you need one.

    We didn't have a referendum in 1832, or 1918, or 1928, or 1969, etc.

    Indeed.
    Referendums, UK-wide, exist as a mechanism for one purpose only.

    We have two competing uneasy confederations of warring tribes that we call "The Big Two Parties." Each consists of several tribes that are at best in a state of truce with other tribes in order to obtain power to exercise in a direction more or less suitable to all those tribes in that Party.

    When a major decision becomes unavoidable and it is one on which the internal tribes cannot agree, and one where they are so strongly in disagreement it threatens civil war and breakup internally, yet has to be made, whoever is Party Leader of the Party in power can choose the teflon shoulder approach of sliding it off to be made by someone else in a way which which his internal tribes cannot argue. Well, they can argue and no doubt will, but it is externalised sufficiently to avoid Party breakup.

    And thus we have (very occasional) referendums.

    I may be unduly cynical, but that's what fits all that has gone before (both where referendums have been called and where major similar decisions have been taken without referendums)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited June 2022
    Since heavy drinking and now smoking makes folk happy I depart to the beach with rejoicing.
    Will return for the free nosh and wine!!
    Monarchists. Enjoy yourselves.
    Republicans. Find summat better to do. There's plenty of choice.
    A happy day all round.
    A bientot!
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,662
    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    edited June 2022
    Instinct says inside edge.

    Edit - instinct was right.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Eabhal said:

    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?

    Flying military aircraft over London is very tightly controlled since the 1(F) Sqdn Hunter incident.

    Flown over DC though, that was good.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    Sandpit said:

    I’m definitely working hard this afternoon, absolutely don’t have the Jubilee on one screen and the cricket on the other…

    Surely that leaves at least one more?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,506
    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    You are so right On the mix Leon. What you are commenting on here, the difference between the pomp and circumstance is exactly what inspired Elgar. He based it on a poem!

    I found this on the web

    “Between 1901 and 1934 Edward Elgar composed five marches and sketched a sixth, the title he took from Act III, Scene 3 of Shakespeare's Othello:

    Farewell the neighing steed and the shrill trump,
    The spirit-stirring drum, th'ear-piercing fife,
    The royal banner, and all quality,
    Pride, pomp, and circumstance of glorious war!

    For the first is set a motto for the whole set of marches, set to a verse from Lord de Tabley's poem "The March of Glory" on assumption the splendid show of military pageantry—"Pomp"—has no connection with the drabness and terror to come —"Circumstance"

    Like a proud music that draws men on to die
    Madly upon the spears in martial ecstasy,
    A measure that sets heaven in all their veins
    And iron in their hands.
    I hear the Nation march
    Beneath her ensign as an eagle's wing;
    O'er shield and sheeted targe
    The banners of my faith most gaily swing;
    Moving to victory with solemn noise,
    With worship and with conquest, and the voice of myriads.

    As a tune, March number one quickly became very popular, on its Proms debut the audience demanded two encores. There was no singing involved at this stage, just pure appreciation of the music Elgar composed.

    Elgar was asked by the King to rework this popular piece into a Coronation Ode, of which the chorus only (and not supplied by Elgar) is now used for Last Night pageantry. It is well known later in life Elgar was uncomfortable with this work morphing into something else, not because of his working class roots or Catholic upbringing during an era it was easier to have influence if you were hindered by neither, Ed was more than capable of looking after himself in that regard, it was more a case of losing control of his artistic soul, seeing his work man handled by those without understanding or good taste.

    But what of appreciation and understanding of an artists work, if it is only the pomp cut from the relating circumstance?

    Elgar in his own words, in a lecture at Birmingham University

    “The commonplace mind can never be anything but commonplace, and no amount of education, no polish of a university, can eradicate the stain from the low type of mind which is the English commonplace,” he declared to a shocked room. “An Englishman will take you into a large room, beautifully proportioned, and will point out to you that it is white – all over white – and somebody will say, ‘What exquisite taste.’ You know in your own mind, in your own soul, that is not taste at all – that it is the want of taste, that it is mere evasion. English music is white, and evades everything.”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    But this is meant to be the very heart of North London metro left elitism - as reflected in house prices - so it's disappointing.

    But as I say, I'll pop over for an hour or so. You have to do things you'd rather not sometimes. It's part of life.
    What's so funny about your posts is that they're not ironic.
    TBF I think he is trolling us here. At least I hope he is
    I'm not sure he is.
    Indeed I'm not trolling. I used to do some of that on here but have long since realized it's best to be sincere and authentic. Fact is, there *is* a shock Jubilee "street party" round my way, and despite my feelings about it I *am* going to pop over briefly when it gets going. Didn't expect brickbats for this (imo admirable) attitude.
    You get brickbats for that rogue 'z' though.
    Ah yes. But remember the deal - I don't do that when writing to you.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited June 2022

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    I agree there is no great desire to get of the monarchy just now but I think it is evident that enthusiasm for it has been declining for decades both here and elsewhere.

    The celebrations for this Jubilee are far less than previous ones. Where we live, apart from the odd pub and shop trying to drum up a bit of extra trade there is zilch to indicate it is happening. When England are playing in a big tournament you would see 10 times the amount of bunting and flags.

    By the time we get to King William I suspect it will have reduced to some form of Scandinavian-style monarchy bike-riding affair and most people will be quite content with that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited June 2022
    Sky News going with 'we are unlikely to see another Platinum jubilee for a very long time'
    Top notch journalism
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    dixiedean said:

    Since heavy drinking and now smoking makes folk happy I depart to the beach with rejoicing.
    Will return for the free nosh and wine!!
    Monarchists. Enjoy yourselves.
    Republicans. Find summat better to do. There's plenty of choice.
    A happy day all round.
    A bientot!

    Already done: wagtail, dipper and - a real treat for today - kingfisher by the river this morning.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,662
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?

    Flying military aircraft over London is very tightly controlled since the 1(F) Sqdn Hunter incident.

    Flown over DC though, that was good.
    I'd never heard of that. Wowsa.

    I'd have thought people would do the Forth Bridges, but Tower Bridge?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    You are so right On the mix Leon. What you are commenting on here, the difference between the pomp and circumstance is exactly what inspired Elgar. He based it on a poem!

    I found this on the web

    “Between 1901 and 1934 Edward Elgar composed five marches and sketched a sixth, the title he took from Act III, Scene 3 of Shakespeare's Othello:

    Farewell the neighing steed and the shrill trump,
    The spirit-stirring drum, th'ear-piercing fife,
    The royal banner, and all quality,
    Pride, pomp, and circumstance of glorious war!

    For the first is set a motto for the whole set of marches, set to a verse from Lord de Tabley's poem "The March of Glory" on assumption the splendid show of military pageantry—"Pomp"—has no connection with the drabness and terror to come —"Circumstance"

    Like a proud music that draws men on to die
    Madly upon the spears in martial ecstasy,
    A measure that sets heaven in all their veins
    And iron in their hands.
    I hear the Nation march
    Beneath her ensign as an eagle's wing;
    O'er shield and sheeted targe
    The banners of my faith most gaily swing;
    Moving to victory with solemn noise,
    With worship and with conquest, and the voice of myriads.

    As a tune, March number one quickly became very popular, on its Proms debut the audience demanded two encores. There was no singing involved at this stage, just pure appreciation of the music Elgar composed.

    Elgar was asked by the King to rework this popular piece into a Coronation Ode, of which the chorus only (and not supplied by Elgar) is now used for Last Night pageantry. It is well known later in life Elgar was uncomfortable with this work morphing into something else, not because of his working class roots or Catholic upbringing during an era it was easier to have influence if you were hindered by neither, Ed was more than capable of looking after himself in that regard, it was more a case of losing control of his artistic soul, seeing his work man handled by those without understanding or good taste.

    But what of appreciation and understanding of an artists work, if it is only the pomp cut from the relating circumstance?

    Elgar in his own words, in a lecture at Birmingham University

    “The commonplace mind can never be anything but commonplace, and no amount of education, no polish of a university, can eradicate the stain from the low type of mind which is the English commonplace,” he declared to a shocked room. “An Englishman will take you into a large room, beautifully proportioned, and will point out to you that it is white – all over white – and somebody will say, ‘What exquisite taste.’ You know in your own mind, in your own soul, that is not taste at all – that it is the want of taste, that it is mere evasion. English music is white, and evades everything.”
    Elgar also wrote the first football chants. And first football team song.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11411360.amp
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386
    This thread has

    displayed Republican tendencies

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:


    The Red Hawks are now very old as you say, the obsolete T1 model. BAe are supposedly delivering a new model soon to the training squadrons, so maybe they’ll upgrade RAFAT to the T2s currently in that role.

    Hawk production is now over with the 9 Qatari ones in final assembly. There will be no T2s for RAFAT.

    The MoD have "invested" in Aeralis in the probably deluded hope that a functioning aircraft will somehow claw its way out of the money pit. They will probably be able to blackmail the RAF into buying some for the RA by threatening to go bankrupt if they don't get an order.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    THIS THREAD HAS ABDICATED
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Leon said:

    Duke of Kent looking spry there

    It's like any moment he might jump off the balcony and ride off on a horse, like one of those amateur matadors who leaps off the bleachers and joins the corrida

    Low key, dogged, deeply orthodox. The thinking man's royal in many ways.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m definitely working hard this afternoon, absolutely don’t have the Jubilee on one screen and the cricket on the other…

    Surely that leaves at least one more?
    PB on the iPad.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    lol - what was that about trolling?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?

    Flying military aircraft over London is very tightly controlled since the 1(F) Sqdn Hunter incident.

    Flown over DC though, that was good.
    You’re just disappointed you didn’t get the opportunity that Hunter pilot took ;)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    Just to be clear - and @Farooq tried to make a similar point earlier - I am perfectly calm and thoroughly enjoying today.

    My sentiments on republicans and the arguments they advance for a republic are entirely sincere.

    What irritation I expressed earlier was for the crassness and rudeness of some republicans trying to piss on her day.

    It doesn't mean I share their empty frustration and anger.
    You don't sound calm. Just enjoy the day. I'm ambivalent to the monarchy, but I'm certainly enjoying the day and will be enjoying the next few days. Trooping the colour was excellent. Why get your knickers in a twist.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    Never understood that argument. You appear to be saying that we have to have a hereditary head of state because the British public can't be trusted to elect one.

    If we need a ceremonial head of state (which is what we have) why not simply rule out anyone who has held political office from standing? It really wouldn't be difficult
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    Fremdscham is a real thing. I feel embarrassed about other people sitting under the bunting eating off QEII china. The likes of Casino_Royale feel embarrassed about people like me expressing republican sympathies on This Of All Days (or ever).

    Probably everybody of every political persuasion without exception would cringe at the state of Tim Farron's Twitter today.

    There's something about this whole monarchy thing that really sets people up to just find the other side not just wrong but also very, very strange.
    Not embarrassed I just found it extremely rude.

    Queen Elizabeth has been on the throne for over 70 years and given outstanding service to our nation.

    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.
    Careful, you're getting dangerously close to those who tell us we mustn't disrespect Mohammed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    Before cigarettes were banned in most places I always had the impression smokers were happier than everyone else despite their bad health effects.
    Yeah, they didn't have to worry about their pensions or what to do in retirement.

    Not much happiness on the respiratory ward that I started on 30 something years ago. Someone died every day from Emphysema or lung cancer. The first being the worst way to go.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    George has a powerful sken.
This discussion has been closed.