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The Tories look set to lose both June 23rd by-elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    @MoonRabbit

    Who on earth would put that image of JRM up?

    I can't even bear to quote it.

    I'm going to need therapy.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,246
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    Just to be clear - and @Farooq tried to make a similar point earlier - I am perfectly calm and thoroughly enjoying today.

    My sentiments on republicans and the arguments they advance for a republic are entirely sincere.

    What irritation I expressed earlier was for the crassness and rudeness of some republicans trying to piss on her day.

    It doesn't mean I share their empty frustration and anger.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    This all needs a really innocuous weird moment to define it.
    Like a bit where the Queen holds up a spark plug and we all sing Onward Christian Soldiers
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George might become a Randy Andy.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    I'm not a monarchist, but we are where we are and I see some benefits. Cruel to the family in many ways but if they want to stick with it hey ho.

    Out of interest, assuming that you (like me) were opposed to the Brexit Referendum why would you be in favour of a referendum on this?
    Yes, I'm generally anti Rs but I can't think of a better alternative when it comes to big constitutional questions as this would be.
    I'm apathetic but agree with the sentiment. I can't get along with creating a new political centre of gravity in the UK with an elected head of state that would rival Parliament.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George might become a Randy Andy.
    Or they all go papist up to Andrew
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,246
    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,367
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
    Best Trooping Of The Colour EVER

    The horses are AMAZING

    ❤️ 🇬🇧
    I tried to answer your 2 questions btw. To the best of my ability. Was a while ago now.

    Dislike all PB Republicans 😠

    This blog is a home for republicans from all parts of the political spectrum 🤷‍♀️

    You will never win!

    If Republicans had a snowball's chance in hell, they wouldn't whinge so much :smile: .
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
    The Cavaliers liked using four letter words, the Roundheads didn't.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Highly inappropriate comment at a moment like this.

    Edit: Hang on, just read more of the thread, she's not dead, it's just some kind of jamboree or something???
    Well, yes, but this is on some peoples' minds.

    The 1977 Silver Jubilee was a chance to pause, with much of the reign to come, to look both back and forward.

    The 2002 Golden Jubilee was a reset after a storm-tossed decade of scandal, divorces and missteps.

    In 2012, the Diamond Jubilee was a reaffirmation of the Queen's place in the nation's affections.

    This Platinum Jubilee will be different. Because this is farewell.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61645993
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684

    This all needs a really innocuous weird moment to define it.
    Like a bit where the Queen holds up a spark plug and we all sing Onward Christian Soldiers

    For me it was the men in gold coats banging twin kettle drums on huge shire horses

    What more do you want?? A silver toad dancing on a flute played by the late Keith Chegwin? That happens only on years ending in a 3
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,565
    carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Tips on what to see in Lisbon please - 2 and a bit days

    Tips on what to see in Faro please - 3 hours, near train station

    Cheers all.

    Once you are at Faro you have the Algarve line at your disposal:


    That's what I'm taking hence the 3 hour wait between arriving from Lisbon and leaving on the Algarve line.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George may turn out to be another Andy.

    Who knows.
    The firm will make Charlotte queen in that case. They really are very good at reading the runes. Better than the Tory party, at least.
    Do you have any evidence for this mystical rune-reading skill? Because recent evidence, Andrew, tells us that the public made up their minds on him a long while before "The Firm" (what does that even mean?) did anything about him (and he's still right there on the line of succession).
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,108
    Her Maj pulls herself away from the cricket
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    It's all that nipping to the offy, bar and for a piss.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,367
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    We have had far too many referendums recently, we are a government of parliamentary democracy not direct democracy.

    Though obviously there would never be a referendum on the monarchy under a Tory government, if it happened it would be under a Labour government, though even Starmer has said he now backs a reformed monarchy having replaced the republican Corbyn.

    Note in Australia it is only the arrival of a Labor government that has put a republic on the agenda again but even there opinion is divided and any referendum will probably have to wait for a second term, if Labor is re elected. In 1999 of course Australians voted 55% to keep the monarchy

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html

    Certainly a safe bet it'll go in Oz before here.
    I expect a referendum in Australia within 5 years, probably in Labor's second term if Albanese is re elected.

    I would not rule out the monarchy scraping home though, while the cities will vote for a republic, rural and small town and outer suburban Australia is much less keen.

    In 1999 for example Queensland was over 60% to keep the monarchy
    Rather crucially, well over 80% of Aussies live in cities.
    Most of them don't live in the inner cities though.

    They live in outer suburbs which together with rural areas and small towns make up over 50%.

    In 1999 for example 55% of Australians voted for the monarchy staying, 45% for a republic.

    However in the big cities the pro republic vote was higher, hence in Victoria, containing Melbourne, 49% voted for a republic and in NSW, containing Sydney, 46% voted for a republic. ACT, containing the Australian capital Canberra, actually voted 63% for a republic
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    REIN it in

    I cannot get over a post on this topic, in which the words "rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people" are applied to *opponents* of the Royal Family.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Woman who stands zilch chance of retaining her high profile cabinet job in a change, against change shocker!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/priti-patel-jubilee-celebrations-mps-plotting-no-confidence-letters
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609

    Woman who stands zilch chance of retaining her high profile cabinet job in a change, against change shocker!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/priti-patel-jubilee-celebrations-mps-plotting-no-confidence-letters

    And of course it is shocking disloyalty to plot against the PM, except that most of the present Cabinet were probably among those who did it to the last PM, when it was proper loyalty to the party no doubt.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    edited June 2022
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
    Being on grey horse and drum banging comes from battle, and important on battlefield. This is like practice or drill for real thing isn’t it?

    Love seeing so many girls on these horses today! #HerGameToo
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
    The Parliamentary areas map quite well onto the areas of earliest and greatest Anglo-Saxon settlement.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    IshmaelZ said:

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    REIN it in

    I cannot get over a post on this topic, in which the words "rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people" are applied to *opponents* of the Royal Family.
    I assumed "reign it in" was a clever joke
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Highly inappropriate comment at a moment like this.

    Edit: Hang on, just read more of the thread, she's not dead, it's just some kind of jamboree or something???
    Well, yes, but this is on some peoples' minds.

    The 1977 Silver Jubilee was a chance to pause, with much of the reign to come, to look both back and forward.

    The 2002 Golden Jubilee was a reset after a storm-tossed decade of scandal, divorces and missteps.

    In 2012, the Diamond Jubilee was a reaffirmation of the Queen's place in the nation's affections.

    This Platinum Jubilee will be different. Because this is farewell.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61645993
    As much as June 30 1997 marked the end of Empire, this weekend and the eventual funeral when the bridge is down mark the final transition from what we were as a nation to whatever it is the future holds. Change is of course ongoing but its the moments that mark the change.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    The best article on any subject that I have ever read.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    edited June 2022
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
    The Cavaliers liked using four letter words, the Roundheads didn't.
    They were quite enthusiastic about pray! and don't!
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    After the Trooping of the Colour, the Passing of the Sickbag.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
    Best Trooping Of The Colour EVER

    The horses are AMAZING

    ❤️ 🇬🇧
    I tried to answer your 2 questions btw. To the best of my ability. Was a while ago now.

    Dislike all PB Republicans 😠

    This blog is a home for republicans from all parts of the political spectrum 🤷‍♀️

    You will never win!

    If Republicans had a snowball's chance in hell, they wouldn't whinge so much :smile: .
    There's cold and ice in hell as well!
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Leon said:

    This all needs a really innocuous weird moment to define it.
    Like a bit where the Queen holds up a spark plug and we all sing Onward Christian Soldiers

    For me it was the men in gold coats banging twin kettle drums on huge shire horses

    What more do you want?? A silver toad dancing on a flute played by the late Keith Chegwin? That happens only on years ending in a 3
    I would like that for the FA cup final so the 'pool can boo it
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
    As armed forces must have highest quota of gay and trans people of any profession, should hope the thought and care is there in ministry of defence for that.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    Duke of Kent looking spry there

    It's like any moment he might jump off the balcony and ride off on a horse, like one of those amateur matadors who leaps off the bleachers and joins the corrida
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
    I think the vets with the castration knives do it for them.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,299

    Woman who stands zilch chance of retaining her high profile cabinet job in a change, against change shocker!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/priti-patel-jubilee-celebrations-mps-plotting-no-confidence-letters

    It doesn't sound much like she's against change to me. Where's her glowing endorsement of Bojo as the man to lead us to the sunlit uplands? She's saying just enough to appear sort of loyal,which basically amounts to keeping a lid on it for the duration of the jubilee.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    JAFFA!
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Leon said:

    Duke of Kent looking spry there

    It's like any moment he might jump off the balcony and ride off on a horse, like one of those amateur matadors who leaps off the bleachers and joins the corrida

    Hes not doing much to dispel the Icke theory, weird looking old newt
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    But this is meant to be the very heart of North London metro left elitism - as reflected in house prices - so it's disappointing.

    But as I say, I'll pop over for an hour or so. You have to do things you'd rather not sometimes. It's part of life.
    What's so funny about your posts is that they're not ironic.
    TBF I think he is trolling us here. At least I hope he is
    I'm not sure he is.
    Indeed I'm not trolling. I used to do some of that on here but have long since realized it's best to be sincere and authentic. Fact is, there *is* a shock Jubilee "street party" round my way, and despite my feelings about it I *am* going to pop over briefly when it gets going. Didn't expect brickbats for this (imo admirable) attitude.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Leach out with concussion, we can have a sub
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,565
    Thanks everyone on your feedback on what to see in Lisbon and Faro. Appreciated.

    Trooping the colour was rather impressive. Looking forward to the fly pass which hopefully will go over our house.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,232
    Anyhoo, thanks to Her Majesty for the extra bank holiday.

    Spending it with the other half.

    God Save The Queen.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 46,684
    The Youtube commentary on this is hilarious. A mix of wonder, spite, pride, determinedly apathetic republicanism, madness, confusion, British irony, Welsh aggressions, animal rights angst, anti-racism, glee, patriotism, trolling, bewildered Filipinos, and people almost as furious as Dura Ace
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,707
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    But this is meant to be the very heart of North London metro left elitism - as reflected in house prices - so it's disappointing.

    But as I say, I'll pop over for an hour or so. You have to do things you'd rather not sometimes. It's part of life.
    What's so funny about your posts is that they're not ironic.
    TBF I think he is trolling us here. At least I hope he is
    I'm not sure he is.
    Indeed I'm not trolling. I used to do some of that on here but have long since realized it's best to be sincere and authentic. Fact is, there *is* a shock Jubilee "street party" round my way, and despite my feelings about it I *am* going to pop over briefly when it gets going. Didn't expect brickbats for this (imo admirable) attitude.
    You get brickbats for that rogue 'z' though.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,567
    edited June 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    Forced abdication. The firm is pretty good at self policing, they got rid of Edward VIII with more ruthlessness than the Tories have with Boris.
    And there were significant doubts about Mr Simpson’s replacement - which is what also appears to be staying Tory hands.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,419
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    Before cigarettes were banned in most places I always had the impression smokers were happier than everyone else despite their bad health effects.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    I’m definitely working hard this afternoon, absolutely don’t have the Jubilee on one screen and the cricket on the other…
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567
    kjh said:

    Thanks everyone on your feedback on what to see in Lisbon and Faro. Appreciated.

    Trooping the colour was rather impressive. Looking forward to the fly pass which hopefully will go over our house.

    Friend of mine who also likes aeroplanes went there. There is a curious memorial to the first plane crossing of the Atlantic (by a Portugee?) on the quayside or something - also some sort of observatory/museum from the Era of Discoveries. The Belem Tower. He sent me a postcard. The plane is in the park nearby. If you like planes, it will appeal - if not, probably not!
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814

    rcs1000 said:


    Referendums are painful.

    But if you want a constitutional change as significant as - say - changing the Westminster voting system then you need one.

    We didn't have a referendum in 1832, or 1918, or 1928, or 1969, etc.

    Indeed.
    Referendums, UK-wide, exist as a mechanism for one purpose only.

    We have two competing uneasy confederations of warring tribes that we call "The Big Two Parties." Each consists of several tribes that are at best in a state of truce with other tribes in order to obtain power to exercise in a direction more or less suitable to all those tribes in that Party.

    When a major decision becomes unavoidable and it is one on which the internal tribes cannot agree, and one where they are so strongly in disagreement it threatens civil war and breakup internally, yet has to be made, whoever is Party Leader of the Party in power can choose the teflon shoulder approach of sliding it off to be made by someone else in a way which which his internal tribes cannot argue. Well, they can argue and no doubt will, but it is externalised sufficiently to avoid Party breakup.

    And thus we have (very occasional) referendums.

    I may be unduly cynical, but that's what fits all that has gone before (both where referendums have been called and where major similar decisions have been taken without referendums)
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    edited June 2022
    Since heavy drinking and now smoking makes folk happy I depart to the beach with rejoicing.
    Will return for the free nosh and wine!!
    Monarchists. Enjoy yourselves.
    Republicans. Find summat better to do. There's plenty of choice.
    A happy day all round.
    A bientot!
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,878
    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Leon said:

    The Youtube commentary on this is hilarious. A mix of wonder, spite, pride, determinedly apathetic republicanism, madness, confusion, British irony, Welsh aggressions, animal rights angst, anti-racism, glee, patriotism, trolling, bewildered Filipinos, and people almost as furious as Dura Ace

    Is anyone trying to bait people with talk of The White Dominions and failing to get the response that wanted? :wink:
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    edited June 2022
    Instinct says inside edge.

    Edit - instinct was right.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,972
    Eabhal said:

    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?

    Flying military aircraft over London is very tightly controlled since the 1(F) Sqdn Hunter incident.

    Flown over DC though, that was good.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    Sandpit said:

    I’m definitely working hard this afternoon, absolutely don’t have the Jubilee on one screen and the cricket on the other…

    Surely that leaves at least one more?
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    You are so right On the mix Leon. What you are commenting on here, the difference between the pomp and circumstance is exactly what inspired Elgar. He based it on a poem!

    I found this on the web

    “Between 1901 and 1934 Edward Elgar composed five marches and sketched a sixth, the title he took from Act III, Scene 3 of Shakespeare's Othello:

    Farewell the neighing steed and the shrill trump,
    The spirit-stirring drum, th'ear-piercing fife,
    The royal banner, and all quality,
    Pride, pomp, and circumstance of glorious war!

    For the first is set a motto for the whole set of marches, set to a verse from Lord de Tabley's poem "The March of Glory" on assumption the splendid show of military pageantry—"Pomp"—has no connection with the drabness and terror to come —"Circumstance"

    Like a proud music that draws men on to die
    Madly upon the spears in martial ecstasy,
    A measure that sets heaven in all their veins
    And iron in their hands.
    I hear the Nation march
    Beneath her ensign as an eagle's wing;
    O'er shield and sheeted targe
    The banners of my faith most gaily swing;
    Moving to victory with solemn noise,
    With worship and with conquest, and the voice of myriads.

    As a tune, March number one quickly became very popular, on its Proms debut the audience demanded two encores. There was no singing involved at this stage, just pure appreciation of the music Elgar composed.

    Elgar was asked by the King to rework this popular piece into a Coronation Ode, of which the chorus only (and not supplied by Elgar) is now used for Last Night pageantry. It is well known later in life Elgar was uncomfortable with this work morphing into something else, not because of his working class roots or Catholic upbringing during an era it was easier to have influence if you were hindered by neither, Ed was more than capable of looking after himself in that regard, it was more a case of losing control of his artistic soul, seeing his work man handled by those without understanding or good taste.

    But what of appreciation and understanding of an artists work, if it is only the pomp cut from the relating circumstance?

    Elgar in his own words, in a lecture at Birmingham University

    “The commonplace mind can never be anything but commonplace, and no amount of education, no polish of a university, can eradicate the stain from the low type of mind which is the English commonplace,” he declared to a shocked room. “An Englishman will take you into a large room, beautifully proportioned, and will point out to you that it is white – all over white – and somebody will say, ‘What exquisite taste.’ You know in your own mind, in your own soul, that is not taste at all – that it is the want of taste, that it is mere evasion. English music is white, and evades everything.”
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    But this is meant to be the very heart of North London metro left elitism - as reflected in house prices - so it's disappointing.

    But as I say, I'll pop over for an hour or so. You have to do things you'd rather not sometimes. It's part of life.
    What's so funny about your posts is that they're not ironic.
    TBF I think he is trolling us here. At least I hope he is
    I'm not sure he is.
    Indeed I'm not trolling. I used to do some of that on here but have long since realized it's best to be sincere and authentic. Fact is, there *is* a shock Jubilee "street party" round my way, and despite my feelings about it I *am* going to pop over briefly when it gets going. Didn't expect brickbats for this (imo admirable) attitude.
    You get brickbats for that rogue 'z' though.
    Ah yes. But remember the deal - I don't do that when writing to you.
  • Options
    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913
    edited June 2022

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    I agree there is no great desire to get of the monarchy just now but I think it is evident that enthusiasm for it has been declining for decades both here and elsewhere.

    The celebrations for this Jubilee are far less than previous ones. Where we live, apart from the odd pub and shop trying to drum up a bit of extra trade there is zilch to indicate it is happening. When England are playing in a big tournament you would see 10 times the amount of bunting and flags.

    By the time we get to King William I suspect it will have reduced to some form of Scandinavian-style monarchy bike-riding affair and most people will be quite content with that.
  • Options
    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    edited June 2022
    Sky News going with 'we are unlikely to see another Platinum jubilee for a very long time'
    Top notch journalism
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,567
    dixiedean said:

    Since heavy drinking and now smoking makes folk happy I depart to the beach with rejoicing.
    Will return for the free nosh and wine!!
    Monarchists. Enjoy yourselves.
    Republicans. Find summat better to do. There's plenty of choice.
    A happy day all round.
    A bientot!

    Already done: wagtail, dipper and - a real treat for today - kingfisher by the river this morning.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,878
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?

    Flying military aircraft over London is very tightly controlled since the 1(F) Sqdn Hunter incident.

    Flown over DC though, that was good.
    I'd never heard of that. Wowsa.

    I'd have thought people would do the Forth Bridges, but Tower Bridge?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    You are so right On the mix Leon. What you are commenting on here, the difference between the pomp and circumstance is exactly what inspired Elgar. He based it on a poem!

    I found this on the web

    “Between 1901 and 1934 Edward Elgar composed five marches and sketched a sixth, the title he took from Act III, Scene 3 of Shakespeare's Othello:

    Farewell the neighing steed and the shrill trump,
    The spirit-stirring drum, th'ear-piercing fife,
    The royal banner, and all quality,
    Pride, pomp, and circumstance of glorious war!

    For the first is set a motto for the whole set of marches, set to a verse from Lord de Tabley's poem "The March of Glory" on assumption the splendid show of military pageantry—"Pomp"—has no connection with the drabness and terror to come —"Circumstance"

    Like a proud music that draws men on to die
    Madly upon the spears in martial ecstasy,
    A measure that sets heaven in all their veins
    And iron in their hands.
    I hear the Nation march
    Beneath her ensign as an eagle's wing;
    O'er shield and sheeted targe
    The banners of my faith most gaily swing;
    Moving to victory with solemn noise,
    With worship and with conquest, and the voice of myriads.

    As a tune, March number one quickly became very popular, on its Proms debut the audience demanded two encores. There was no singing involved at this stage, just pure appreciation of the music Elgar composed.

    Elgar was asked by the King to rework this popular piece into a Coronation Ode, of which the chorus only (and not supplied by Elgar) is now used for Last Night pageantry. It is well known later in life Elgar was uncomfortable with this work morphing into something else, not because of his working class roots or Catholic upbringing during an era it was easier to have influence if you were hindered by neither, Ed was more than capable of looking after himself in that regard, it was more a case of losing control of his artistic soul, seeing his work man handled by those without understanding or good taste.

    But what of appreciation and understanding of an artists work, if it is only the pomp cut from the relating circumstance?

    Elgar in his own words, in a lecture at Birmingham University

    “The commonplace mind can never be anything but commonplace, and no amount of education, no polish of a university, can eradicate the stain from the low type of mind which is the English commonplace,” he declared to a shocked room. “An Englishman will take you into a large room, beautifully proportioned, and will point out to you that it is white – all over white – and somebody will say, ‘What exquisite taste.’ You know in your own mind, in your own soul, that is not taste at all – that it is the want of taste, that it is mere evasion. English music is white, and evades everything.”
    Elgar also wrote the first football chants. And first football team song.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11411360.amp
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,094
    This thread has

    displayed Republican tendencies

  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,972
    Sandpit said:


    The Red Hawks are now very old as you say, the obsolete T1 model. BAe are supposedly delivering a new model soon to the training squadrons, so maybe they’ll upgrade RAFAT to the T2s currently in that role.

    Hawk production is now over with the 9 Qatari ones in final assembly. There will be no T2s for RAFAT.

    The MoD have "invested" in Aeralis in the probably deluded hope that a functioning aircraft will somehow claw its way out of the money pit. They will probably be able to blackmail the RAF into buying some for the RA by threatening to go bankrupt if they don't get an order.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,567
    THIS THREAD HAS ABDICATED
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072
    Leon said:

    Duke of Kent looking spry there

    It's like any moment he might jump off the balcony and ride off on a horse, like one of those amateur matadors who leaps off the bleachers and joins the corrida

    Low key, dogged, deeply orthodox. The thinking man's royal in many ways.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’m definitely working hard this afternoon, absolutely don’t have the Jubilee on one screen and the cricket on the other…

    Surely that leaves at least one more?
    PB on the iPad.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,072

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    lol - what was that about trolling?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,834
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    @Dura_Ace did you ever fly over the palace or did they skip you, wary of a kamikaze?

    Flying military aircraft over London is very tightly controlled since the 1(F) Sqdn Hunter incident.

    Flown over DC though, that was good.
    You’re just disappointed you didn’t get the opportunity that Hunter pilot took ;)
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    edited June 2022
    This thread is

    in two pieces on the pavement of Whitehall outside the Banqueting House

  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,565

    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    Just to be clear - and @Farooq tried to make a similar point earlier - I am perfectly calm and thoroughly enjoying today.

    My sentiments on republicans and the arguments they advance for a republic are entirely sincere.

    What irritation I expressed earlier was for the crassness and rudeness of some republicans trying to piss on her day.

    It doesn't mean I share their empty frustration and anger.
    You don't sound calm. Just enjoy the day. I'm ambivalent to the monarchy, but I'm certainly enjoying the day and will be enjoying the next few days. Trooping the colour was excellent. Why get your knickers in a twist.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    Never understood that argument. You appear to be saying that we have to have a hereditary head of state because the British public can't be trusted to elect one.

    If we need a ceremonial head of state (which is what we have) why not simply rule out anyone who has held political office from standing? It really wouldn't be difficult
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,913

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    So, the Jube is here and the weather playing ball. Turns out the road next to us is having a 'street party'. Found this out just yesterday. I was pretty mortified at first but I guess no harm. Might show my face briefly.

    Why are you mortified?

    Should I, as an atheist, be upset that the Seventh Day Adventist church round the corner uses impromptu food bank they run outside their church as a proselytizing operation?

    Or should I smile at them?
    Fremdscham is a real thing. I feel embarrassed about other people sitting under the bunting eating off QEII china. The likes of Casino_Royale feel embarrassed about people like me expressing republican sympathies on This Of All Days (or ever).

    Probably everybody of every political persuasion without exception would cringe at the state of Tim Farron's Twitter today.

    There's something about this whole monarchy thing that really sets people up to just find the other side not just wrong but also very, very strange.
    Not embarrassed I just found it extremely rude.

    Queen Elizabeth has been on the throne for over 70 years and given outstanding service to our nation.

    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.
    Careful, you're getting dangerously close to those who tell us we mustn't disrespect Mohammed.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,488
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    Before cigarettes were banned in most places I always had the impression smokers were happier than everyone else despite their bad health effects.
    Yeah, they didn't have to worry about their pensions or what to do in retirement.

    Not much happiness on the respiratory ward that I started on 30 something years ago. Someone died every day from Emphysema or lung cancer. The first being the worst way to go.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    George has a powerful sken.
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