Also some more info, I am told that Starmer will consider offering PR to the Lib Dems in any Hung Parliament scenario in exchange for support.
Starmer does not wish however, to form any coalition.
He'd just give them PR or would it be a referendum? And what about Lab's attitude towards the SNP in a hung parliament situation? Dare them to vote Labour down?
I think it would be very foolish (actually, I think it would be utterly outrageous) for the coalition to change the Parliamentary election system without a referendum.
That being said, I would (presuming it was in parties' manifestos) support a move to multi-member STV at the local level. I think it would likely avoid the Newham problem and improve council accountability no end.
They change the electoral setup all the time without a referendum. We don’t get a vote on these boundaries, nor did we ever get a vote on FPTP.
68% voted to retain FFTP in 2011.
That's not true (or rather it's a slightly misleading way of framing it): 68% of people voted not to replace FPTP with AV.
I always think that we should have aped the EU referendum, and gone with:
Shall we keep FPTP as the voting system for Westminster elections?
With the options being:
Remain with FPTP Leave for pastures new
We could then have had people voting Leave for all kinds of preferred voting systems.
Come on Robert. Leaving the EU meant not being in the EU. Getting rid of FPTP means ummm..........
Sounds identical to me. After all leaving the EU also meant ummmm... with umpteen alternative options. Hell even I could have voted for one of them.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
Wakefield surely a massive swing to Labour but unsure about the Lib Dem chances in the other
The LibDems will win massively in Tiverton & Honiton.
The only chance they won't is if Johnson is removed before then.
We don't even have to win. Its a 24k majority. Lets say the Tories win by a few thousand. They can't celebrate. Because thats a swathe of their southern seats gone at the general.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
I think he hasn't made €700M, rather it's a valuation based on the sale of small shareholdings, which could include speculation on future growth. And yes, in my experience, a big secret of mega-entrepreneurship in this world is having enough patient capital to survive the first 9 ideas that fall flat.
The fiasco at the Stade de France is one of those stories that grows and gets worse over time, rather than the opposite, probably because there is an inept attempt to cover it all up, which takes a while to crumble.
As I said a couple of days ago, it has the distinct whiff of Cologne on New Year’s Eve, 2015
“TÉMOIGNAGES - Agissant en bandes, des voleurs en ont vraisemblablement profité pour «peloter des jeunes filles et des femmes», rapportent des policiers et des spectateurs.
Vols à l'arraché, spectateurs dépouillés mais aussi agressions sexuelles ont marqué le samedi soir cauchemardesque au Stade de France, en marge de la rencontre Liverpool - Real Madrid. «C'est un truc de fou ce qui s'est passé. Je n'avais jamais vu ça, des équipes de blédards de Barbès, de Saint-Denis.... J'ai vu des femmes se faire toucher la poitrine, ils ont arraché des sacs», assure un policier présent sur le dispositif de sécurité. Un second fonctionnaire, lui aussi sur le terrain samedi, confirme des agressions sexuelles commises aux abords du stade. «J'ai entendu des histoires de mains baladeu mains je n’ai rien vu”
Allegations of mass sexual assault. And this is from Le Figaro, not some fringe website
I was on the executive committee of Warwick and Leamington Conservatives with Sir Jeremy many years ago, well deserved
On a point of historical accuracy: he wasn't Sir then, was he, unless he was a hereditary baronet?
On a point of linguistic accuracy it is surely acceptable to say, for instance, I was at school with the bishop of Basingstoke, leaving it to be inferred that this was pre episcopally?
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
He's pretty blunt there, isn't he? Outrage, no moral conscience, will stand with Ukraine, no negotiations about territory, more weapons including long range artillery and drones. About the only good news for Russia is that he doesn't define what the 'severe consequences' would be in the event of a nuclear strike. Probably because he hasn't decided yet.
Moreover, somewhat less than a veiled hint to China about his thinking on Taiwan.
Looking forward to the celebrations. I believe I will get to see the fly past, but a bit after her Maj. Going to a beacon being lit in the village tonight and village party on Sunday. I am going to attempt to walk to the lot. I have managed three 2 - 3 km walks in the last week and the last one only partly using a crutch. All in prep for my visit to Lisbon and then a festival in the Algarve the following week.
Very good article by Joe Biden, or at least with his name on it. Btw The NYT's annoying habit of asking you to sign up and create an account can be circumvented by switching on 'reader mode' in you browser.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
He has made the point that his degree (Ancient History) is nothing to do with what he does now.
Looking forward to the celebrations. I believe I will get to see the fly past, but a bit after her Maj. Going to a beacon being lit in the village tonight and village party on Sunday. I am going to attempt to walk to the lot. I have managed three 2 - 3 km walks in the last week and the last one only partly using a crutch. All in prep for my visit to Lisbon and then a festival in the Algarve the following week.
The fiasco at the Stade de France is one of those stories that grows and gets worse over time, rather than the opposite, probably because there is an inept attempt to cover it all up, which takes a while to crumble.
As I said a couple of days ago, it has the distinct whiff of Cologne on New Year’s Eve, 2015
“TÉMOIGNAGES - Agissant en bandes, des voleurs en ont vraisemblablement profité pour «peloter des jeunes filles et des femmes», rapportent des policiers et des spectateurs.
Vols à l'arraché, spectateurs dépouillés mais aussi agressions sexuelles ont marqué le samedi soir cauchemardesque au Stade de France, en marge de la rencontre Liverpool - Real Madrid. «C'est un truc de fou ce qui s'est passé. Je n'avais jamais vu ça, des équipes de blédards de Barbès, de Saint-Denis.... J'ai vu des femmes se faire toucher la poitrine, ils ont arraché des sacs», assure un policier présent sur le dispositif de sécurité. Un second fonctionnaire, lui aussi sur le terrain samedi, confirme des agressions sexuelles commises aux abords du stade. «J'ai entendu des histoires de mains baladeu mains je n’ai rien vu”
Allegations of mass sexual assault. And this is from Le Figaro, not some fringe website
Good work but remember your first reaction on the night was that a bunch of scouse hooligans were getting their just desserts. To your credit, you then started looking at the videos which showed non-LFC fans jumping fences while les gendarmes pepper-sprayed Liverpool fans for the crime of standing calmly behind a barrier.
Others were defending Liverpool fans against charges of mass counterfeiting while the mods were enjoying their prawn sandwiches.
He's pretty blunt there, isn't he? Outrage, no moral conscience, will stand with Ukraine, no negotiations about territory, more weapons including long range artillery and drones. About the only good news for Russia is that he doesn't define what the 'severe consequences' would be in the event of a nuclear strike. Probably because he hasn't decided yet.
Moreover, somewhat less than a veiled hint to China about his thinking on Taiwan.
No wonder Lavrov was so upset.
Well, there is this:
"As President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has said, ultimately this war “will only definitively end through diplomacy.” Every negotiation reflects the facts on the ground. We have moved quickly to send Ukraine a significant amount of weaponry and ammunition so it can fight on the battlefield and be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table."
But if you want a constitutional change as significant as - say - changing the Westminster voting system then you need one.
We didn't have a referendum in 1832, or 1918, or 1928, or 1969, etc.
In 1832 there were however a series of elections all of which were based around reform of the voting system.
Plus, every major house in England had cannon in its windows because there was such a real threat of mob violence if franchise reform wasn't passed.
The irony was that when it was passed, it was actually damaging to the radicals - it restricted the franchise in Preston (also Winchester and Coventry) and Hunt lost his seat as a result.
The key thing about all the reforms in the nineteenth century however - which is rather lost in modern pop history's obsession with extension of the franchise - was the determination of the parties to keep hold of seat redistribution. That's why, for example, Disraeli was perfectly happy to concede a wider franchise in 1867 in exchange for being allowed to keep control of where the new county divisions would go.
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
Hunt would make mincemeat of you.
Bring it.
CoL crisis does for the Tories next election whoever leads them.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
1.5 man hours=3 people working for half an hour to clean one car? Seems unlikely. (I clean my own car so I don't have first hand knowledge on this PB perennial but I would have 0.5 man hours as the upper limit on what seems plausible).
To do it 'properly' it takes me a day and a half with the wheels off and seats out. Rainwater washes, clay bar, wax, ceramic coat, etc. Longer, if I'm doing paint correction.
You're better off doing nothing than taking it to an automatic one or a gang of tatterdemalion kurds with buckets of gritty water. Both will destroy your clear coat.
Ha ha. You are like the guy with a car in that Shania Twain song.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
Fair bit of alcohol-fuelled leeriness at Exeter Chiefs - young farmers letting off steam.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
He has made the point that his degree (Ancient History) is nothing to do with what he does now.
And that is generally true. Most graduates have had a three-year jolly at a no-longer cheap finishing school before starting a career in an unrelated field.
Those of us like Michael Gove who value a liberal arts education think this should be open to everyone. Oddly, this is a left-wing idea in America but a right-wing idea in Britain.
Meanwhile, the self-styled realists point out that in cold, hard cash terms most would do better at trade school, except where university now is their trade school such as doctors and nurses, leaving the dreaming spires to the Brideshead set.
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
1.5 man hours=3 people working for half an hour to clean one car? Seems unlikely. (I clean my own car so I don't have first hand knowledge on this PB perennial but I would have 0.5 man hours as the upper limit on what seems plausible).
To do it 'properly' it takes me a day and a half with the wheels off and seats out. Rainwater washes, clay bar, wax, ceramic coat, etc. Longer, if I'm doing paint correction.
You're better off doing nothing than taking it to an automatic one or a gang of tatterdemalion kurds with buckets of gritty water. Both will destroy your clear coat.
You cannot escape the second law of thermodynamics. It's rotting and wearing down. My Dad, who worked for Simoniz (car wax etc.) never cleaned his car
I was on the executive committee of Warwick and Leamington Conservatives with Sir Jeremy many years ago, well deserved
On a point of historical accuracy: he wasn't Sir then, was he, unless he was a hereditary baronet?
On a point of linguistic accuracy it is surely acceptable to say, for instance, I was at school with the bishop of Basingstoke, leaving it to be inferred that this was pre episcopally?
It was the "many years ago" that did it for me - and resulted in the sort of double take which I try to root out in my own writings. Blame it on déformation professionnelle!
In any case, who knows what these Erastian heretics do? They might make the cathedral close cat a Canon for all I know.
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
Hunt would make mincemeat of you.
Bring it.
I thought in 2019 that the Tories were mad not to elect Hunt as leader, I saw him at a hustings event and he was impressively on top of his brief and a good communicator. I still think he is their best choice now. But I do wonder whether he could turn it around for them or if Johnson has soiled the sheets to such an extent that it's beyond reach. I suspect the latter, although with a fresh leader they might be able to limit Labour to an unstable minority government and be in a position to come back quickly. It's more likely they pick someone bonkers like Patel though, I think, and spend some time in the wilderness.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
It’s not violence between rugby fans. It is a history of crowd mismanagement at the Stade de France
“I went to France -England rugby at the Stade de France this year and I felt very uncomfortal at that underpass near the stadium where crowds built up and there was a scrum. One bloke said: “It’s normal, don’t worry” but I thought it had potential for trouble. #championsleague”
“Watching the news about the Stade de France and the funnelling of supporters. Precisely the same experience we had when we went there for a rugby match. Piss up & brewery springs to mind with the way events are organised in France compared to here. they are having the Olympics 🤦”
“Just went on reviews of the Stade De France. These 4 reviews have been taken from 6 Nations Rugby matches this year. This problem was never rectified by French authorities and UEFA allowed it to continue @LFC@JamesPearceLFC@Jesanchez3@LFCHelp@ChantLFC #LFC #stadedefrance”
Also some more info, I am told that Starmer will consider offering PR to the Lib Dems in any Hung Parliament scenario in exchange for support.
Starmer does not wish however, to form any coalition.
He'd just give them PR or would it be a referendum? And what about Lab's attitude towards the SNP in a hung parliament situation? Dare them to vote Labour down?
I think it would be very foolish (actually, I think it would be utterly outrageous) for the coalition to change the Parliamentary election system without a referendum.
That being said, I would (presuming it was in parties' manifestos) support a move to multi-member STV at the local level. I think it would likely avoid the Newham problem and improve council accountability no end.
They change the electoral setup all the time without a referendum. We don’t get a vote on these boundaries, nor did we ever get a vote on FPTP.
68% voted to retain FFTP in 2011.
That's not true (or rather it's a slightly misleading way of framing it): 68% of people voted not to replace FPTP with AV.
I always think that we should have aped the EU referendum, and gone with:
Shall we keep FPTP as the voting system for Westminster elections?
With the options being:
Remain with FPTP Leave for pastures new
We could then have had people voting Leave for all kinds of preferred voting systems.
Come on Robert. Leaving the EU meant not being in the EU. Getting rid of FPTP means ummm..........
Sounds identical to me. After all leaving the EU also meant ummmm... with umpteen alternative options. Hell even I could have voted for one of them.
Sorry but that isn't quite right. Leaving the EU had an obvious fall back. We are a sovereign nation after all. It simply meant extricating ourselves from the rules and privileges that come from EU membership. Of course it would have helped if the leavers had been more realistic about the sort of relationship that would be possible with the EU as a non-member but we are where we are.
Wakefield surely a massive swing to Labour but unsure about the Lib Dem chances in the other
The LibDems will win massively in Tiverton & Honiton.
The only chance they won't is if Johnson is removed before then.
I look forward to your report from the constituency to back that up.....
Oh, not been?
Do you really need to be so facetious / obnoxious especially this early in the day?
I have a close relative living there and I trust her judgement and I have knowledge of the area. I've also been correct about all my UK political predictions over the past 12 months, although I grant you that that's no guarantee it will continue.
I also hear the fury across blue wall southern Britain and if you don't then I hold out less hope for a tory revival.
The betting markets have this right: it will be a big LibDem win.
So fuck-all first hand knowledge. I think that deserves being facetious. On a betting site.
Good morning everyone. Even as a republican I'm looking forward to the next few days. Especially if the weather holds, and even given my mobility problems.
On topic, I think, Mr M, that that's a bit harsh. Does appear that Ms H has made enquiries in the area. Do you personally inspect each horse you back, or do you look at the form book and listen to the opinions of others?
The forecast for Saturday and Sunday is a bit rubbish for the south Payback for all that lovely weather we usually get, I guess.
It's a bit of an issue for us as we have 75 villagers attending a tea party on Sunday in a village hall that can hold 60 max... And somehow, despite being a devout republican, I have been lumbered with organising the tea party 😬
Just cancel it. That's what royalists do to republicans, so they can't complain.
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
Hunt would make mincemeat of you.
Bring it.
👜 😂
Don't laugh. Bow before your conqueror. If you abase yourself before him now you may know clemency be spared the worst of his terrible wrath.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
Well, the interior minister has now been under intense media fire for four days, has changed his story multiple times, from blaming Liverpool fans to blaming fake tickets to admitting some responsibility but still kinda saying “fake tickets mumble mumble”. And it is now reported by Le Monde that Macron is “furious” at him
He’s in trouble and we are on the eve of the French parliamentary elex - and this is prolonged headline news and bad for Macron. It may affect the election which is an important PB story by itself
1.5 man hours=3 people working for half an hour to clean one car? Seems unlikely. (I clean my own car so I don't have first hand knowledge on this PB perennial but I would have 0.5 man hours as the upper limit on what seems plausible).
To do it 'properly' it takes me a day and a half with the wheels off and seats out. Rainwater washes, clay bar, wax, ceramic coat, etc. Longer, if I'm doing paint correction.
You're better off doing nothing than taking it to an automatic one or a gang of tatterdemalion kurds with buckets of gritty water. Both will destroy your clear coat.
You cannot escape the second law of thermodynamics. It's rotting and wearing down. My Dad, who worked for Simoniz (car wax etc.) never cleaned his car
I read it as DA getting the wagon ready for sale. Disbelief is proverbially suspended in all sorts of ways in the second-hand horse, and horseless carriage, market.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
He has made the point that his degree (Ancient History) is nothing to do with what he does now.
And that is generally true. Most graduates have had a three-year jolly at a no-longer cheap finishing school before starting a career in an unrelated field.
Those of us like Michael Gove who value a liberal arts education think this should be open to everyone. Oddly, this is a left-wing idea in America but a right-wing idea in Britain.
Meanwhile, the self-styled realists point out that in cold, hard cash terms most would do better at trade school, except where university now is their trade school such as doctors and nurses, leaving the dreaming spires to the Brideshead set.
Isn't Oxford U a trade poly for the political trade?
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
Hunt would make mincemeat of you.
Bring it.
CoL crisis does for the Tories next election whoever leads them.
A CoL crisis for all parties. Labour seems ill-equipped to manage it too.
General Election 2024: Jermey Hunt Vs Keith Starmer - Dull And Duller!
However, after everything that's happened in recent years, a lengthy period of grey managerialism and instantly forgettable leadership might prove very welcome.
I agree. I think Jeremy Hunt would win that particular match-up fairly easily, (although I wouldn't vote for either of their parties).
Maybe Hunt would surprise you.
I consider myself on the right of the party, and I certainly don't consider him a wet.
Hunt carries too much baggage to pull off a John Major style fresh face win. Major was a fresh face, Hunt is not.
Making Hunt leader would be as much of a fresh start as electing David Blunckett in 2010 or Leon Brittan in 1990.
Translation: you don't want a credible Tory PM in office that might threaten a Labour victory.
I can read you like a book.
Nah. As a Labour supporter I welcome Hunt. In the short term an improvement over Boris, which would be good for the country, but very defeatable at the general election. The perfect mix.
Hunt would make mincemeat of you.
Bring it.
👜 😂
Don't laugh. Bow before your conqueror. If you abase yourself before him now you may know clemency be spared the worst of his terrible wrath.
Sorry I should show more respect to the man that made the NHS what it is today.
The fiasco at the Stade de France is one of those stories that grows and gets worse over time, rather than the opposite, probably because there is an inept attempt to cover it all up, which takes a while to crumble.
As I said a couple of days ago, it has the distinct whiff of Cologne on New Year’s Eve, 2015
“TÉMOIGNAGES - Agissant en bandes, des voleurs en ont vraisemblablement profité pour «peloter des jeunes filles et des femmes», rapportent des policiers et des spectateurs.
Vols à l'arraché, spectateurs dépouillés mais aussi agressions sexuelles ont marqué le samedi soir cauchemardesque au Stade de France, en marge de la rencontre Liverpool - Real Madrid. «C'est un truc de fou ce qui s'est passé. Je n'avais jamais vu ça, des équipes de blédards de Barbès, de Saint-Denis.... J'ai vu des femmes se faire toucher la poitrine, ils ont arraché des sacs», assure un policier présent sur le dispositif de sécurité. Un second fonctionnaire, lui aussi sur le terrain samedi, confirme des agressions sexuelles commises aux abords du stade. «J'ai entendu des histoires de mains baladeu mains je n’ai rien vu”
Allegations of mass sexual assault. And this is from Le Figaro, not some fringe website
Good work but remember your first reaction on the night was that a bunch of scouse hooligans were getting their just desserts. To your credit, you then started looking at the videos which showed non-LFC fans jumping fences while les gendarmes pepper-sprayed Liverpool fans for the crime of standing calmly behind a barrier.
Others were defending Liverpool fans against charges of mass counterfeiting while the mods were enjoying their prawn sandwiches.
When the facts change, etc etc
Yes I was wrong to immediately blame the hymn-booers. But I swiftly amended my opinion, as you note (merci) when the tsunami of contradictory social media came in
This is a big story. Not least because it speaks to a bigger malaise in France, and simply incredible amounts of blatant lying by Macronist politicians. It makes it easier to understand why Le Pen got 42%
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
I think he hasn't made €700M, rather it's a valuation based on the sale of small shareholdings, which could include speculation on future growth. And yes, in my experience, a big secret of mega-entrepreneurship in this world is having enough patient capital to survive the first 9 ideas that fall flat.
Absolutely , its one of these paper valuations that mainly function as misleading PR fodder.
It is just hard to see how - even if something like this could scale up, it could ever make much money. He (and his partner) have found an interesting edge and reinvented apprenticeships and deserve credit for that. But surely people can just come along and copy it. The reality of this game is that it is surely going to be a few thousand quid per apprenticeship, some of which will go bad, and the money will be mostly spent on management, admin and overheads.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
He has made the point that his degree (Ancient History) is nothing to do with what he does now.
And that is generally true. Most graduates have had a three-year jolly at a no-longer cheap finishing school before starting a career in an unrelated field.
Those of us like Michael Gove who value a liberal arts education think this should be open to everyone. Oddly, this is a left-wing idea in America but a right-wing idea in Britain.
Meanwhile, the self-styled realists point out that in cold, hard cash terms most would do better at trade school, except where university now is their trade school such as doctors and nurses, leaving the dreaming spires to the Brideshead set.
Isn't Oxford U a trade poly for the political trade?
Yes (Oxford, with its PPE course and Oxford Union debates, for politics and Cambridge for comedy). Theresa was introduced to Philip May by Benazir Bhutto, and he was encouraged to propose by Malcolm Turnbull. That is three future prime ministers in one anecdote.
Yes I was wrong to immediately blame the hymn-booers. But I swiftly amended my opinion, as you note (merci) when the tsunami of contradictory social media came in
Why would you give a fuck if a load of people you don't know booed a song at an event you did not attend?
Have you succumbed to the common old man's ailment of continually searching the Internet for things about which to be annoyed.
The French government should pay compensation to those fans effected by the shambolic organization and Darmanin should be fired .
I come at this as someone who likes Macron so it’s not some anti French tirade but the scenes last Saturday were disgraceful and could have ended in tragedy.
The fiasco at the Stade de France is one of those stories that grows and gets worse over time, rather than the opposite, probably because there is an inept attempt to cover it all up, which takes a while to crumble.
As I said a couple of days ago, it has the distinct whiff of Cologne on New Year’s Eve, 2015
“TÉMOIGNAGES - Agissant en bandes, des voleurs en ont vraisemblablement profité pour «peloter des jeunes filles et des femmes», rapportent des policiers et des spectateurs.
Vols à l'arraché, spectateurs dépouillés mais aussi agressions sexuelles ont marqué le samedi soir cauchemardesque au Stade de France, en marge de la rencontre Liverpool - Real Madrid. «C'est un truc de fou ce qui s'est passé. Je n'avais jamais vu ça, des équipes de blédards de Barbès, de Saint-Denis.... J'ai vu des femmes se faire toucher la poitrine, ils ont arraché des sacs», assure un policier présent sur le dispositif de sécurité. Un second fonctionnaire, lui aussi sur le terrain samedi, confirme des agressions sexuelles commises aux abords du stade. «J'ai entendu des histoires de mains baladeu mains je n’ai rien vu”
Allegations of mass sexual assault. And this is from Le Figaro, not some fringe website
Good work but remember your first reaction on the night was that a bunch of scouse hooligans were getting their just desserts. To your credit, you then started looking at the videos which showed non-LFC fans jumping fences while les gendarmes pepper-sprayed Liverpool fans for the crime of standing calmly behind a barrier.
Others were defending Liverpool fans against charges of mass counterfeiting while the mods were enjoying their prawn sandwiches.
When the facts change, etc etc
Yes I was wrong to immediately blame the hymn-booers. But I swiftly amended my opinion, as you note (merci) when the tsunami of contradictory social media came in
This is a big story. Not least because it speaks to a bigger malaise in France, and simply incredible amounts of blatant lying by Macronist politicians. It makes it easier to understand why Le Pen got 42%
Or perhaps you decided more fun to bash the French than the scousers this week?
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Cologne syndrome apparently.
There's definitely an eau de of incompetence and dishonesty.
Yes I was wrong to immediately blame the hymn-booers. But I swiftly amended my opinion, as you note (merci) when the tsunami of contradictory social media came in
Why would you give a fuck if a load of people you don't know booed a song at an event you did not attend?
Have you succumbed to the common old man's ailment of continually searching the Internet for things about which to be annoyed.
The best part is the old men then love calling out the young for being snowflakes.....
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
He has made the point that his degree (Ancient History) is nothing to do with what he does now.
And that is generally true. Most graduates have had a three-year jolly at a no-longer cheap finishing school before starting a career in an unrelated field.
Those of us like Michael Gove who value a liberal arts education think this should be open to everyone. Oddly, this is a left-wing idea in America but a right-wing idea in Britain.
Meanwhile, the self-styled realists point out that in cold, hard cash terms most would do better at trade school, except where university now is their trade school such as doctors and nurses, leaving the dreaming spires to the Brideshead set.
Isn't Oxford U a trade poly for the political trade?
Yes (Oxford, with its PPE course and Oxford Union debates, for politics and Cambridge for comedy). Theresa was introduced to Philip May by Benazir Bhutto, and he was encouraged to propose by Malcolm Turnbull. That is three future prime ministers in one anecdote.
You would have thought that if they all spent so much time on PPE we would be better at procuring the damn stuff.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Cologne syndrome apparently.
There's definitely an eau de of incompetence and dishonesty.
redundant repetition 'de' and 'of'. But 4711 marks for trying.
First story on World Tonight. Am I the only one who doesn't give a monkey's about Depp v Heard?
I literally have no idea who alleged what about whom. I know that Depp is an actor, I don't know who Herd is. I have the oddest feeling even that scant information is more than I need to know but I'm happy to take advice on why I should care if I'm wrong.
Both are actors. Depp is the only good one.
Ultimately it's a story about who abused who, and whether or not a woman can be an abuser (Hint, yes, anyone can). Amber Heard claimed Depp abused her, and it almost finished off his career. She effectively tried to have him cancelled.
Now it's come out that, while neither of them were exactly perfect, she was the abusive one (cutting his finger off, defecating in his bed etc). Also a flagrant liar, claiming she donated millions from their divorce settlement to charity when she did not.
A lot of men (and women) who have been in relationships with a manipulative partner who has been believed over them will be nodding and smiling this evening.
On the subject of defecating, Simon Evans (as always) gets it spot on:
From the commentary I have picked up, it was about Heard's exaggerations in terms of alleged violence, and demonstrated untruthfulness, undermining her credibility as a witness.
Yes I was wrong to immediately blame the hymn-booers. But I swiftly amended my opinion, as you note (merci) when the tsunami of contradictory social media came in
Why would you give a fuck if a load of people you don't know booed a song at an event you did not attend?
Have you succumbed to the common old man's ailment of continually searching the Internet for things about which to be annoyed.
“succumbed”? I’ve been doing this for decades. I love being outraged, it’s the whole point of the internet. That delicious dopamine hit of OMFG. Do not try to pretend you are not similarly addicted
However, i also like following a news story that i sense has the power to grow. It’s just fun to watch it - and do your own sleuthing and extrapolate; and the internet also allows you to do that from the comfort of a sunny tumbledown terrace in Old Tbilisi in a way that was impossible for all of human history before about 2006
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
Well, the interior minister has now been under intense media fire for four days, has changed his story multiple times, from blaming Liverpool fans to blaming fake tickets to admitting some responsibility but still kinda saying “fake tickets mumble mumble”. And it is now reported by Le Monde that Macron is “furious” at him
He’s in trouble and we are on the eve of the French parliamentary elex - and this is prolonged headline news and bad for Macron. It may affect the election which is an important PB story by itself
France 24 also doing extensive reporting, of apologies and the like.
Opportunities for Liverpool fans to make direct reports themselves, which afaik is unprecedented.
Timing may be important. There was a rapid enquiry announced - reporting in days. It now sounds as though there will be something in more depth happening.
Will this be like BoJo's "wait for the police ... er .. Sue Gray .. er ... something else .. er .. something something something .. before making any decisions"?
First story on World Tonight. Am I the only one who doesn't give a monkey's about Depp v Heard?
I literally have no idea who alleged what about whom. I know that Depp is an actor, I don't know who Herd is. I have the oddest feeling even that scant information is more than I need to know but I'm happy to take advice on why I should care if I'm wrong.
Both are actors. Depp is the only good one.
Ultimately it's a story about who abused who, and whether or not a woman can be an abuser (Hint, yes, anyone can). Amber Heard claimed Depp abused her, and it almost finished off his career. She effectively tried to have him cancelled.
Now it's come out that, while neither of them were exactly perfect, she was the abusive one (cutting his finger off, defecating in his bed etc). Also a flagrant liar, claiming she donated millions from their divorce settlement to charity when she did not.
A lot of men (and women) who have been in relationships with a manipulative partner who has been believed over them will be nodding and smiling this evening.
On the subject of defecating, Simon Evans (as always) gets it spot on:
From the commentary I have picked up, it was about Heard's exaggerations in terms of alleged violence, and demonstrated untruthfulness, undermining her credibility as a witness.
The trial was brought due to 1 line in an article that she wrote. The line is unarguably true (as it was about public perception of her, it did not reference Depp).
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
Well, the interior minister has now been under intense media fire for four days, has changed his story multiple times, from blaming Liverpool fans to blaming fake tickets to admitting some responsibility but still kinda saying “fake tickets mumble mumble”. And it is now reported by Le Monde that Macron is “furious” at him
He’s in trouble and we are on the eve of the French parliamentary elex - and this is prolonged headline news and bad for Macron. It may affect the election which is an important PB story by itself
France 24 also doing extensive reporting, of apologies and the like.
Opportunities for Liverpool fans to make direct reports themselves, which afaik is unprecedented.
Timing may be important. There was a rapid enquiry announced - reporting in days. It now sounds as though there will be something in more depth happening.
Will this be like BoJo's "wait for the police ... er .. Sue Gray .. er ... something else .. er .. something something something .. before making any decisions"?
One of the reasons it is now a massive story in France is BECAUSE of the terrible political lies told at the start. As ever, the cover up makes it all much worse
If this daft Interior Minister had simply said, on the night, “something awful has clearly happened, we will find out why” then he and his govt would not be deep in the merde, as they are now
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
I just got an email fro Owen Smith asking me for money. I'm not a Labour Party member but it was sent to me personally from the candidate for Wakefield. It said the usual donation was £13 which seemed modest so I sent it.
It's a good idea to send personal emails to people you don't know. £13 to help remove Johnson is the least any of us can do and I'm sure plenty of other people will feel the same.
(it asked if I'd ever been to Wakefield! Apparently its been abandoned)
01/06/2022
Dear Roger(damus) c/o Mike Smithson@PB.com (aka OGH: backer of Obama to be POTUS at unbelievable odds!)
I am writing to you personally to request your support for an important endeavour. I am trying to remove some funds from a gentleman called Mr William Hill who has far more money than I do. This necessary and justifiable rebalancing of the economy can be readily achieved if I can raise a stake to invest on the winner of the Epsom Derby this Saturday. (The name of the winning horse is called Changingoftheguard and is currently available to back with Mr Hill at 8/1).
If you could send me £13 to assist in this necessary redistribution of funds from the rich to the less well off, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure plenty of other people you know will feel they would like to do the same and support this initiative. Please ask them to send me some dosh too. I will DM you with my bank details.
Kind regards,
stjohn.
Could you not more profitably ask Roger to publicly back the favourite ?
First story on World Tonight. Am I the only one who doesn't give a monkey's about Depp v Heard?
I literally have no idea who alleged what about whom. I know that Depp is an actor, I don't know who Herd is. I have the oddest feeling even that scant information is more than I need to know but I'm happy to take advice on why I should care if I'm wrong.
Both are actors. Depp is the only good one.
Ultimately it's a story about who abused who, and whether or not a woman can be an abuser (Hint, yes, anyone can). Amber Heard claimed Depp abused her, and it almost finished off his career. She effectively tried to have him cancelled.
Now it's come out that, while neither of them were exactly perfect, she was the abusive one (cutting his finger off, defecating in his bed etc). Also a flagrant liar, claiming she donated millions from their divorce settlement to charity when she did not.
A lot of men (and women) who have been in relationships with a manipulative partner who has been believed over them will be nodding and smiling this evening.
On the subject of defecating, Simon Evans (as always) gets it spot on:
From the commentary I have picked up, it was about Heard's exaggerations in terms of alleged violence, and demonstrated untruthfulness, undermining her credibility as a witness.
The trial was brought due to 1 line in an article that she wrote. The line is unarguably true (as it was about public perception of her, it did not reference Depp).
I was referring to court testimony and the jury.
But it's a (not a) Bank Holiday and the sun is out, but it counts as one.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
So you've never been to Wales. At the all day event in the Principality in April, drunken revellers from the East pitched in with drunken revellers from the West. The cells filled up in Butetown nick, and a good time was had by all
Nicola Sturgeon's tribute to Her Majesty The Queen in the Scottish Parliament today. It might be the most fulsome encomium to the Sovereign I've heard so far this Platinum Jubilee week.
I wonder if the SNP leader might be a wee bit of a monarchist...
Perhaps Mr Daisley is of a more optimistic persuasion than I, but I did wonder if the fulsome praise of dedication and selfless service might be in (unspoken) contrast to another public servant…..
First story on World Tonight. Am I the only one who doesn't give a monkey's about Depp v Heard?
I literally have no idea who alleged what about whom. I know that Depp is an actor, I don't know who Herd is. I have the oddest feeling even that scant information is more than I need to know but I'm happy to take advice on why I should care if I'm wrong.
Both are actors. Depp is the only good one.
Ultimately it's a story about who abused who, and whether or not a woman can be an abuser (Hint, yes, anyone can). Amber Heard claimed Depp abused her, and it almost finished off his career. She effectively tried to have him cancelled.
Now it's come out that, while neither of them were exactly perfect, she was the abusive one (cutting his finger off, defecating in his bed etc). Also a flagrant liar, claiming she donated millions from their divorce settlement to charity when she did not.
A lot of men (and women) who have been in relationships with a manipulative partner who has been believed over them will be nodding and smiling this evening.
On the subject of defecating, Simon Evans (as always) gets it spot on:
From the commentary I have picked up, it was about Heard's exaggerations in terms of alleged violence, and demonstrated untruthfulness, undermining her credibility as a witness.
The trial was brought due to 1 line in an article that she wrote. The line is unarguably true (as it was about public perception of her, it did not reference Depp).
I haven't followed it particularly closely, but it does seem a strange verdict, even for two products of tinsel town.
They both seem really quite unpleasant people, the sort that my mother refers to as "a lovely couple (as they don't spoil another one)".
Rather like the Rooney/Vardy spat, it does show the seamier side of celebrity culture, and the deep unhappiness that lies with in that gilded narcisstic world.
At least our own gilded narcissists have given us a day off in the sun to toast their matriarch. Must get to work to put up the bunting and prepare my trifle.
Also some more info, I am told that Starmer will consider offering PR to the Lib Dems in any Hung Parliament scenario in exchange for support.
Starmer does not wish however, to form any coalition.
He'd just give them PR or would it be a referendum? And what about Lab's attitude towards the SNP in a hung parliament situation? Dare them to vote Labour down?
I think it would be very foolish (actually, I think it would be utterly outrageous) for the coalition to change the Parliamentary election system without a referendum.
That being said, I would (presuming it was in parties' manifestos) support a move to multi-member STV at the local level. I think it would likely avoid the Newham problem and improve council accountability no end.
They change the electoral setup all the time without a referendum. We don’t get a vote on these boundaries, nor did we ever get a vote on FPTP.
68% voted to retain FFTP in 2011.
That's not true (or rather it's a slightly misleading way of framing it): 68% of people voted not to replace FPTP with AV.
I always think that we should have aped the EU referendum, and gone with:
Shall we keep FPTP as the voting system for Westminster elections?
With the options being:
Remain with FPTP Leave for pastures new
We could then have had people voting Leave for all kinds of preferred voting systems.
Come on Robert. Leaving the EU meant not being in the EU. Getting rid of FPTP means ummm..........
Sounds identical to me. After all leaving the EU also meant ummmm... with umpteen alternative options. Hell even I could have voted for one of them.
Sorry but that isn't quite right. Leaving the EU had an obvious fall back. We are a sovereign nation after all. It simply meant extricating ourselves from the rules and privileges that come from EU membership. Of course it would have helped if the leavers had been more realistic about the sort of relationship that would be possible with the EU as a non-member but we are where we are.
Getting rid of FPTP would leave us with nothing.
I don't think anyone would be daft enough to think 'Oh what do we do now? I hadn't thought of that.' No now I think about it lots would!
Both required the status quo or a move from it. If a move from it then that had to be decided. They are identical. I'm not arguing for this type of referendum. On the contrary it is dumb to have a referendum with an open ended outcome like the EU one which left us in limbo. I'm just pointing out the point @rcs1000 made was correct. His was a super analogy.
The fact that the EU referendum did leave us with so many possible outcomes other than staying shows it is the same as a referendum on junking FPTP without a solution That is ok we have decided that, now what? That will be followed by years of argument. Sound familiar?
The obvious answer to both is a referendum on junking something, followed by a referendum on a solution when you have it. You keep the original until you vote on the replacement. That works for leaving the EU and replacing FPTP
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
You appear to have attended some very dull games. Were they all touch rugby ?
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
Yes, some of the problems seem to come from the Stade de France changing its crowd management policies, after the terror attacks. Eg there are few if any reports of crowd difficulties before the big attacks of 2015, they all date from after then, when the authorities got paranoid about the wrong people getting in
And of course you’re right that is a bigger story than last weekend, but last weekend is still pretty bloody serious. 1000s of people robbed, attacked and traumatised, and dozens if not hundreds of sexual assaults - with police officers saying they have never witnessed anything on this scale
It looks like the French now have a toxic cocktail of near-impossible crowd management problems in the face of terrorism, and all of this with a stadium surrounded by Islamist migrants, and on top of that they now have the threat of constant Cologne style mass robbery and sexual molestation
This is a French paper speculating that the mess might cost Macron “fifty deputies”
“It will end up costing us 50 deputies like the social VAT of Borloo”, fears a senior officer of the macronie. Darmanin in the middle of the fire lopinion.fr/politique/stad… by @LVigogne@mdeprieck Drawing @MonsieurKak”
Personally, I would not go to the Stade de France to watch anything, not now. And I would have been happy to do so, before, because I was oblivious, like all of us
They really should not have built that stadium in Paris 93
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
So you've never been to Wales. At the all day event in the Principality in April, drunken revellers from the East pitched in with drunken revellers from the West. The cells filled up in Butetown nick, and a good time was had by all
When did you leave? 1959.
This was a rather bizzare incident too of Rugby Hooliganism:
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
This one involves random police violence (yes - Paris, I know), in addition to robbery, sexual assault and the rest, by criminal gangs. It is also 2 years before the same place is the main Olympic Stadium. That is a somewhat different category to political violence.
Here's a link I posted the other day - blind fans with their white sticks subjected to clouds of tear gas at an official gate for disabled people, in a queue with wheelchair users.
Looking forward to the celebrations. I believe I will get to see the fly past, but a bit after her Maj. Going to a beacon being lit in the village tonight and village party on Sunday. I am going to attempt to walk to the lot. I have managed three 2 - 3 km walks in the last week and the last one only partly using a crutch. All in prep for my visit to Lisbon and then a festival in the Algarve the following week.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
So you've never been to Wales. At the all day event in the Principality in April, drunken revellers from the East pitched in with drunken revellers from the West. The cells filled up in Butetown nick, and a good time was had by all
When did you leave? 1959.
Yes. I've been to the Millennium stadium in Cardiff several times to see Wales play, including Australia, South Africa and England matches.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
You appear to have attended some very dull games. Were they all touch rugby ?
No, I've attended many games at Twickenham and the Millennium Stadium. Club games at Bristol and Bath too.
The idea there is "violence" is ludicrous, although one can never absolutely rule out occasional bad behaviour by a handful of very drunk fans.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
You appear to have attended some very dull games. Were they all touch rugby ?
No, I've attended many games at Twickenham and the Millennium Stadium. Club games at Bristol and Bath too.
The idea there is "violence" is ludicrous, although one can never absolutely rule out occasional bad behaviour by a handful of very drunk fans.
The point that he himself got where he is through inbuilt advantages is well-taken, but several of the points he makes in the article are reasonably good, and at least his business does seem to be genuinely helping a lot of unqualified school-leavers into better jobs.
The proud advertisng of living the high life inherited from his father I find a bit odd.
I would credit the businesses and politicians who pay and levy the compulsory training fund. Hopefully there is more to his wealth than grabbing government subsidy spending.
Looks like he had the right idea (after some false starts) and was able to pitch it well. But on a broader level, it is interesting how you can make £700 million out of what seems like a modest scheme managing apprenticeships. Even if it is 'thousands' of apprenticeships, as claimed. There is something that doesn't quite add up there.
I am no fan of universities or academia in general.... But I do find myself getting annoyed when he criticises universities and elite education as being pointless. Apprenticeships suit some people, university suits others, there is room for everything.
The irony being of course that he was a uni graduate...
He has made the point that his degree (Ancient History) is nothing to do with what he does now.
And that is generally true. Most graduates have had a three-year jolly at a no-longer cheap finishing school before starting a career in an unrelated field.
Those of us like Michael Gove who value a liberal arts education think this should be open to everyone. Oddly, this is a left-wing idea in America but a right-wing idea in Britain.
Meanwhile, the self-styled realists point out that in cold, hard cash terms most would do better at trade school, except where university now is their trade school such as doctors and nurses, leaving the dreaming spires to the Brideshead set.
Isn't Oxford U a trade poly for the political trade?
Yes (Oxford, with its PPE course and Oxford Union debates, for politics and Cambridge for comedy). Theresa was introduced to Philip May by Benazir Bhutto, and he was encouraged to propose by Malcolm Turnbull. That is three future prime ministers in one anecdote.
You would have thought that if they all spent so much time on PPE we would be better at procuring the damn stuff.
It doesn’t train them, it just masks their many inadequacies.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
You appear to have attended some very dull games. Were they all touch rugby ?
No, I've attended many games at Twickenham and the Millennium Stadium. Club games at Bristol and Bath too.
The idea there is "violence" is ludicrous, although one can never absolutely rule out occasional bad behaviour by a handful of very drunk fans.
I was talking about between the teams.
I used to rather enjoy the French team have fights in its own ranks.
But if you want a constitutional change as significant as - say - changing the Westminster voting system then you need one.
We didn't have a referendum in 1832, or 1918, or 1928, or 1969, etc.
Expectations change as the times change.
Personally I think if a party which campaigns on a change wins they have a reasonable case to just do it through legislation, even on a major matter, and legally that's totally acceptable. Of course, what counts as major is hard to define, many things as major but how many very major? It also could appear hypocritical if a party switched to, say, a system which requires getting at least 50%, yet didnt have that backing itself, but you can only win with the system you already have.
Switching it, to start with, at lower levels could be very simple though. The government has already done the same thing for future PCC elections I think, or intends to.
I've spent time in Tiverton delivering leaflets. A burly bloke with tattoos burst out of a LA house and thrust the LD leaflet into my hand. "Bloody rubbish" he said. At another house, man washing his car said he'd vote LD because "you at least are making an effort".
Hard to read the mood. Apathy. Low turnout. For what it's worth I have £200 on a Tory win. It's a value bet at these odds, though I'll probably lose it.
Instinctual aversion to voting Labour meaning no other alternative, NIMBYism, and a dash of conservative liberalism.
Knowing that Socialism was tried and failed, so only thicko’s want to try again, and utter despair at Boris unConservative car crash of a government. Barely a week goes by without Boris government doing some Populist that’s utterly unConservative. He’s not come to praise Conservatism, but to bury it.
"Knowing that Socialism was tried and failed, so only thicko’s want to try again"
That's all very well. Labour under Starmer may be many things. But it ain't Socialism. Or that. Lib Dem fail there.
Ha. Then what? What are Starmer’s values rooted in? What values set are Labour rooted in today 2300 June 1st 2022? What are its texts it will draw policy from, what are its instincts and values it will draw ideals from, who are its heroes it will draw inspiration from?
Couple of simple questions. If Labour get in again will they seek to reset UK capitalism, or is everything just hunky dory today? What is Global Britain to them, what are Labours policies for tackling all the negatives of globalisation the red wall knows too well?
Libdem fail? Or waking you up to your delusion? I’m not expecting thanks from anyone for this service.
The values of social democracy. Those of Attlee, Wilson and Blair. Some of us grew up (literally) fighting actual Communists as our main opponents. I find your Soviet insinuations a little offensive. But then again. You're too young to remember it.
Then let’s look forward. The first point of party politics is to explain the issues and required action from your point of view 🙂
Couple of simple questions. If Labour get in again will they seek to reset UK capitalism, or is everything just hunky dory today? What is Global Britain to them, what are Labours policies for tackling all the negatives of globalisation the red wall knows too well?
Two simple questions, no answers?
You were all a bit cheeky to start with, soon as it turns out MoonRabbit too clever for you, you legged it. 😀
Well these questions about what Starmer Labour are actually for, and will do with power if they have it in 2025, are not going away. They will be waiting for you in the morning.
And here I am. I fear they are above my pay grade, but. Firstly. They are fair criticisms. There hasn't been a great deal of the "vision thing" so far. So I'll have a go from my point of view. "Seek to reset UK capitalism?" I don't think that's the governments job. That's capitalists' job. The issue is the consumer. In areas the government has some control. Too often they've been ignored and made to feel confused by the sheer complexity of it all. Look at energy companies. Public transport. Everything is getting more expensive. And, in many cases, the service is getting worse. Labour needs to be the Party of the consumer champion. Globalisation is a red herring I think. You don't get anywhere restricting international trade. It's a lose lose. Many of the issues of the Red Wall would be eased if public services weren't in such a dire state. The Tories response is to issue diktats based on the Daily Mail, and flap about for "efficiency savings." All the while the delivery gets worse. You can't see a GP, get a passport on time, a driving licence or test. Trains cost a fortune and buses don't exist outside London. The police force? Well. Less said. No one ever seems to start from the question What is the point of it? Buses as an example. What are they for? What should the police be doing? Ask the people who use them. And work from there, with the folk who deliver it, to answer how we get there. And give them the tools to achieve it. It's all tinkering at the moment. Penny pinching and lack of strategic thinking. So. Party of delivery in public services.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
So you've never been to Wales. At the all day event in the Principality in April, drunken revellers from the East pitched in with drunken revellers from the West. The cells filled up in Butetown nick, and a good time was had by all
When did you leave? 1959.
I went to the old Cardiff Arms Park as a lad and saw plenty of spitting and chucking-lit-cigarettes at rival fans - if not actual punches thrown
Rugby can be quite boisterous, too. Tho it is generally much more good natured than football
I’ve also seen the odd fracas at the cricket. This is simply human. Sport is exciting and people drink before matches and crowds are volatile
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
I've never experienced (or even seen) violence at any rugby match I've been to.
It starts and ends with banter.
You appear to have attended some very dull games. Were they all touch rugby ?
No, I've attended many games at Twickenham and the Millennium Stadium. Club games at Bristol and Bath too.
The idea there is "violence" is ludicrous, although one can never absolutely rule out occasional bad behaviour by a handful of very drunk fans.
I was talking about between the teams.
Oh, that's par for the course. But, it's normally a flash in the pan, over quickly, and the players shake hands at the end.
Morning and merry bankmas all. On topic, it certainly looks pretty bleak for the Tories in these 2. Wakefield should be much easier for Labour due to the circumstances, but the result needs looking at as Labour have performed very poorly in by elections this parliament generally - even in their own seat of Erdington with a healthy poll lead the result was poor for mid term against an unpopular PM, so they really should be taking this in the circs by a big margin. Turnout in Tiverton will be interesting. New LD voters or Tories on their hands? And any defenestration makes it a betting opportunity.
Incidentally, for a sense of the scale of the Stade de France violence, on Tuesday Liverpool FC set up a website for fans to leave their personal testimonies
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
This one involves random police violence (yes - Paris, I know), in addition to robbery, sexual assault and the rest, by criminal gangs. It is also 2 years before the same place is the main Olympic Stadium. That is a somewhat different category to political violence.
Here's a link I posted the other day - blind fans with their white sticks subjected to clouds of tear gas at an official gate for disabled people, in a queue with wheelchair users.
Macron's big risk is his own political situation, and the Olympics - now that the story has broken through.
Well, not really. There is no danger to the Olympics, because policing of football matches has always been more difficult and aggressive than other sporting events. Football fans have a reputation, one that crosses borders and has endured through modern times.
In the UK crowds have become more middle class and family oriented, in part because of the costs involved, but the Ultras are usually working class men. Supporting a football team is a semi-authorised outlet for aggression, as we see every week in chants, verbal abuse and now social media abuse. It is all part of the atmosphere at big matches. There are few other places where you can shout insults at people in public.
It isn't surprising that it overspills the boundaries to violence at times. It is a difficult situation to police, and it does seem as if the reputation of Liverpool fans caused rather an overreaction by the French Police and SdF management. What looks like exuberent to fans can look potentially riotous to police.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
Yes, some of the problems seem to come from the Stade de France changing its crowd management policies, after the terror attacks. Eg there are few if any reports of crowd difficulties before the big attacks of 2015, they all date from after then, when the authorities got paranoid about the wrong people getting in
And of course you’re right that is a bigger story than last weekend, but last weekend is still pretty bloody serious. 1000s of people robbed, attacked and traumatised, and dozens if not hundreds of sexual assaults - with police officers saying they have never witnessed anything on this scale
It looks like the French now have a toxic cocktail of near-impossible crowd management problems in the face of terrorism, and all of this with a stadium surrounded by Islamist migrants, and on top of that they now have the threat of constant Cologne style mass robbery and sexual molestation
This is a French paper speculating that the mess might cost Macron “fifty deputies”
“It will end up costing us 50 deputies like the social VAT of Borloo”, fears a senior officer of the macronie. Darmanin in the middle of the fire lopinion.fr/politique/stad… by @LVigogne@mdeprieck Drawing @MonsieurKak”
Personally, I would not go to the Stade de France to watch anything, not now. And I would have been happy to do so, before, because I was oblivious, like all of us
They really should not have built that stadium in Paris 93
Yet. Has been noted before. Stratford wasn't ritzy when we built ours there. It was a dump in the 90's.
I'm at Trooping the Colour and it's complete and utter chaos. We're in a massive queue for ticket holders and there are just swarms of unticketed people swarming down Great George Street swamping the queue. No barriers, marshals or any form of crowd control. Loads of elderly veterans getting swamped and jostled. I thought we were supposed to be good at this kind of thing.
I've seen Stade Francais play, though it was not at the Stade de France. During the game some of their bench players were doing warm ups etc and a couple walked near the home crowd making rude gestures, causing dozens of angry Frenchmen to rush forward and attempt to hurl bottles at them (the caps had been removed in purchase, presumably for that exact scenario). It was all quite exciting and amusing.
I'm at Trooping the Colour and it's complete and utter chaos. We're in a massive queue for ticket holders and there are just swarms of unticketed people swarming down Great George Street swamping the queue. No barriers, marshals or any form of crowd control. Loads of elderly veterans getting swamped and jostled. I thought we were supposed to be good at this kind of thing.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
This one involves random police violence (yes - Paris, I know), in addition to robbery, sexual assault and the rest, by criminal gangs. It is also 2 years before the same place is the main Olympic Stadium. That is a somewhat different category to political violence.
Here's a link I posted the other day - blind fans with their white sticks subjected to clouds of tear gas at an official gate for disabled people, in a queue with wheelchair users.
Macron's big risk is his own political situation, and the Olympics - now that the story has broken through.
Well, not really. There is no danger to the Olympics, because policing of football matches has always been more difficult and aggressive than other sporting events. Football fans have a reputation, one that crosses borders and has endured through modern times.
In the UK crowds have become more middle class and family oriented, in part because of the costs involved, but the Ultras are usually working class men. Supporting a football team is a semi-authorised outlet for aggression, as we see every week in chants, verbal abuse and now social media abuse. It is all part of the atmosphere at big matches. There are few other places where you can shout insults at people in public.
It isn't surprising that it overspills the boundaries to violence at times. It is a difficult situation to police, and it does seem as if the reputation of Liverpool fans caused rather an overreaction by the French Police and SdF management. What looks like exuberent to fans can look potentially riotous to police.
TBH I think you are underplaying that.
AIUI and judging by video evidence the police "overreacted" when there was nothing to react to. The alleged protagonist largely did not exist.
Good morning from Old Tbilisi, and a happy Jubilee to everyone, monarchist, anarchist, Fascist, communist….. even republican
To veer slightly off topic, I recall there were some people on here dismissing the Stade de France story as “a scuffle at a football game, will be forgotten in two days”. i said that was not the case, it is indeed not the case. From the Spectator
“The shambles at the Stade de France on Saturday night took a sinister turn on Wednesday as allegations emerged of incidents of sexual assault committed against supporters by gangs of local youths.
“What unfolded outside France’s national stadium on Saturday evening as Liverpool and Real Madrid met inside in the final of the Champions League has dominated the news in France ever since. Most of the criticism for what is seen as a national humiliation is directed at Gérald Darmanin, the Minister of the Interior, who since Saturday evening has insisted that Liverpool supporters were predominantly to blame for the trouble. On Wednesday he received the indirect support of his boss, Emmanuel Macron, via his official spokeswoman, Olivia Grégoire, who assured reporters the president is ‘totally’ behind his beleaguered minister.”
There's rugby and kickball internationals at the SdF, so a complete coin toss which was going on last Saturday, no?
No.
Hooligans gonna hooligan, Paris police gonna do what they do best, and life being the harsh struggle against unfair odds, rounded off by a cheap funeral, that it is, Liverpool fans no matter how saintly gonna have the sins of their fathers visited upon them.
Your normal lazy, low-watt, misinformed take on what is now a huge story - in France
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Huge story in France that the banlieus are bandit country? I should get a job at Le Monde, I could have told them that 25 years ago
It's pretty unfortunate because it brings to the fore issues France/Macron would rather just ignore. Juxtaposed with what should have been a French triumph.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Exactly. it’s a big story by itself - thousands of people attacked, dozens of children molested, etc etc - but it throws uncomfortable light on an even bigger story, which Macron is desperate not to talk about
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
Yeah it's fucking carnage out there though. Have a guess before looking at the death and injury count over the last 4 years in gilets jaunes carry ons
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
Yes, some of the problems seem to come from the Stade de France changing its crowd management policies, after the terror attacks. Eg there are few if any reports of crowd difficulties before the big attacks of 2015, they all date from after then, when the authorities got paranoid about the wrong people getting in
And of course you’re right that is a bigger story than last weekend, but last weekend is still pretty bloody serious. 1000s of people robbed, attacked and traumatised, and dozens if not hundreds of sexual assaults - with police officers saying they have never witnessed anything on this scale
It looks like the French now have a toxic cocktail of near-impossible crowd management problems in the face of terrorism, and all of this with a stadium surrounded by Islamist migrants, and on top of that they now have the threat of constant Cologne style mass robbery and sexual molestation
This is a French paper speculating that the mess might cost Macron “fifty deputies”
“It will end up costing us 50 deputies like the social VAT of Borloo”, fears a senior officer of the macronie. Darmanin in the middle of the fire lopinion.fr/politique/stad… by @LVigogne@mdeprieck Drawing @MonsieurKak”
Personally, I would not go to the Stade de France to watch anything, not now. And I would have been happy to do so, before, because I was oblivious, like all of us
They really should not have built that stadium in Paris 93
Yet. Has been noted before. Stratford wasn't ritzy when we built ours there. It was a dump in the 90's.
When I was living in London in the period around 2000, 3 bed semis in decent streets in Stratford for £70k or so were one hot tip from the London Property Guide.
I'm at Trooping the Colour and it's complete and utter chaos. We're in a massive queue for ticket holders and there are just swarms of unticketed people swarming down Great George Street swamping the queue. No barriers, marshals or any form of crowd control. Loads of elderly veterans getting swamped and jostled. I thought we were supposed to be good at this kind of thing.
It's an odd thing, but surprisingly often we're quite bad at things we think we're good at and quite good at things we think we're bad at.
Comments
As I said a couple of days ago, it has the distinct whiff of Cologne on New Year’s Eve, 2015
“TÉMOIGNAGES - Agissant en bandes, des voleurs en ont vraisemblablement profité pour «peloter des jeunes filles et des femmes», rapportent des policiers et des spectateurs.
Vols à l'arraché, spectateurs dépouillés mais aussi agressions sexuelles ont marqué le samedi soir cauchemardesque au Stade de France, en marge de la rencontre Liverpool - Real Madrid. «C'est un truc de fou ce qui s'est passé. Je n'avais jamais vu ça, des équipes de blédards de Barbès, de Saint-Denis.... J'ai vu des femmes se faire toucher la poitrine, ils ont arraché des sacs», assure un policier présent sur le dispositif de sécurité. Un second fonctionnaire, lui aussi sur le terrain samedi, confirme des agressions sexuelles commises aux abords du stade. «J'ai entendu des histoires de mains baladeu mains je n’ai rien vu”
Allegations of mass sexual assault. And this is from Le Figaro, not some fringe website
https://www.lefigaro.fr/faits-divers/j-ai-vu-des-femmes-se-faire-toucher-des-temoins-denoncent-des-agressions-sexuelles-au-stade-de-france-20220601
You’re also wrong about the footie/rugby thing. It turns out there have been similar problems at Stade de France at rugby matches too. They have just never been reported as they have been on a smaller scale, and rugby is less salient than soccer
Moreover, somewhat less than a veiled hint to China about his thinking on Taiwan.
No wonder Lavrov was so upset.
Btw The NYT's annoying habit of asking you to sign up and create an account can be circumvented by switching on 'reader mode' in you browser.
Others were defending Liverpool fans against charges of mass counterfeiting while the mods were enjoying their prawn sandwiches.
"As President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine has said, ultimately this war “will only definitively end through diplomacy.” Every negotiation reflects the facts on the ground. We have moved quickly to send Ukraine a significant amount of weaponry and ammunition so it can fight on the battlefield and be in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table."
Plus, every major house in England had cannon in its windows because there was such a real threat of mob violence if franchise reform wasn't passed.
The irony was that when it was passed, it was actually damaging to the radicals - it restricted the franchise in Preston (also Winchester and Coventry) and Hunt lost his seat as a result.
The key thing about all the reforms in the nineteenth century however - which is rather lost in modern pop history's obsession with extension of the franchise - was the determination of the parties to keep hold of seat redistribution. That's why, for example, Disraeli was perfectly happy to concede a wider franchise in 1867 in exchange for being allowed to keep control of where the new county divisions would go.
Bring it.
It starts and ends with banter.
Those of us like Michael Gove who value a liberal arts education think this should be open to everyone. Oddly, this is a left-wing idea in America but a right-wing idea in Britain.
Meanwhile, the self-styled realists point out that in cold, hard cash terms most would do better at trade school, except where university now is their trade school such as doctors and nurses, leaving the dreaming spires to the Brideshead set.
In any case, who knows what these Erastian heretics do? They might make the cathedral close cat a Canon for all I know.
“I went to France -England rugby at the Stade de France this year and I felt very uncomfortal at that underpass near the stadium where crowds built up and there was a scrum. One bloke said: “It’s normal, don’t worry” but I thought it had potential for trouble. #championsleague”
https://twitter.com/adrian_warner/status/1531253834835759105?s=21&t=-8JXjXAEBDrJOgaFrO_IOQ
“Watching the news about the Stade de France and the funnelling of supporters. Precisely the same experience we had when we went there for a rugby match. Piss up & brewery springs to mind with the way events are organised in France compared to here. they are having the Olympics 🤦”
https://twitter.com/airlie_bird/status/1530833891279380480?s=21&t=-8JXjXAEBDrJOgaFrO_IOQ
“Just went on reviews of the Stade De France. These 4 reviews have been taken from 6 Nations Rugby matches this year. This problem was never rectified by French authorities and UEFA allowed it to continue @LFC @JamesPearceLFC @Jesanchez3 @LFCHelp @ChantLFC #LFC #stadedefrance”
https://twitter.com/durk4n/status/1531764605403414529?s=21&t=-8JXjXAEBDrJOgaFrO_IOQ
Getting rid of FPTP would leave us with nothing.
Well, the interior minister has now been under intense media fire for four days, has changed his story multiple times, from blaming Liverpool fans to blaming fake tickets to admitting some responsibility but still kinda saying “fake tickets mumble mumble”. And it is now reported by Le Monde that Macron is “furious” at him
He’s in trouble and we are on the eve of the French parliamentary elex - and this is prolonged headline news and bad for Macron. It may affect the election which is an important PB story by itself
Yes I was wrong to immediately blame the hymn-booers. But I swiftly amended my opinion, as you note (merci) when the tsunami of contradictory social media came in
This is a big story. Not least because it speaks to a bigger malaise in France, and simply incredible amounts of blatant lying by Macronist politicians. It makes it easier to understand why Le Pen got 42%
It is just hard to see how - even if something like this could scale up, it could ever make much money. He (and his partner) have found an interesting edge and reinvented apprenticeships and deserve credit for that. But surely people can just come along and copy it. The reality of this game is that it is surely going to be a few thousand quid per apprenticeship, some of which will go bad, and the money will be mostly spent on management, admin and overheads.
Echoes of the 2011 riots?
Have you succumbed to the common old man's ailment of continually searching the Internet for things about which to be annoyed.
I come at this as someone who likes Macron so it’s not some anti French tirade but the scenes last Saturday were disgraceful and could have ended in tragedy.
Remember that the Interior Minister’s FIRST version of events was that the problems all came from “thousands of British fans trying to get in without tickets and violating stewards”
A complete load of astonishing bollocks from beginning to end.
He also tried to support this ludicrous version of events by saying “most of the people arrested are English”.
However since then French journalists have dug into the truth and revealed that most people arrested are “Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian” etc.
His response to this, last night, when it was pointed out at a press conference? “It is nauseous [ie racist] to talk about the nationality of suspects”. Even tho he was quite happy to call them “English” when it suited him. Incroyable
It looks like his career is going to be truncated, he will be the sacrificial lamb to propitiate the angry gods. However Macron won’t sack him immediately because, elections
After Sturgeon’s gracious and fulsome tribute yesterday:
This is a very gracious tribute to the Queen from President Macron.
‘You are the golden thread that binds our two countries, the proof of the unwavering friendship between our two nations.’
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1532271725345484800
However, i also like following a news story that i sense has the power to grow. It’s just fun to watch it - and do your own sleuthing and extrapolate; and the internet also allows you to do that from the comfort of a sunny tumbledown terrace in Old Tbilisi in a way that was impossible for all of human history before about 2006
Opportunities for Liverpool fans to make direct reports themselves, which afaik is unprecedented.
Timing may be important. There was a rapid enquiry announced - reporting in days. It now sounds as though there will be something in more depth happening.
Will this be like BoJo's "wait for the police ... er .. Sue Gray .. er ... something else .. er .. something something something .. before making any decisions"?
If this daft Interior Minister had simply said, on the night, “something awful has clearly happened, we will find out why” then he and his govt would not be deep in the merde, as they are now
Though the smoked salmon is more reasonable. But no kippers.
Is there a certain Jewish wryness in a deli being called "Panzer's", and that it started in 1944 ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_protests#Fatalities_and_injuries
Surprised me. This is a drop in the ocean.
and hugely ironically, when I was googling for dangers in Paris generally, I find (Nov 2015)
Three explosions occurred near the country's national sports stadium, the Stade de France, in the suburb of Saint-Denis, resulting in four deaths, including the three suicide bombers.[66] The explosions happened at 21:16, 21:19,[note 1] and 21:53.[67] At the time, the stadium was hosting an international friendly football match between France and Germany, which President Hollande was attending.[68][69] The suicide bombers arrived slightly late for the game, and eyewitness reports indicated they did not have tickets, resulting in them being turned away by security guards several times.[65]
The first explosion near the stadium occurred about 20 minutes after the start of the game.[68][69] The first bomber was prevented from entering the stadium again after a security guard patted him down and found the explosive vest.[70] A few seconds after being turned away, he detonated the vest outside the security gate, killing himself and a bystander.[65][71] Investigators later surmised that the first suicide bomber had planned to detonate his vest within the stadium, triggering the crowd's panicked exit onto the streets where two other bombers were lying in wait.[72] Three minutes after the first bombing, the second bomber blew himself up outside another security gate.[note 1][65] Another 23 minutes after that, the third bomber's vest detonated near the stadium. According to some reports, the location of the third explosion was at a McDonald's restaurant, where over 50 people were injured, seven seriously;[65][70][73] others state the bomb detonated some distance away from any discernible target.[74]
The irony being, nobody has commented on the precedent/parallel because NOBODY REMEMBERED IT. And it's a lot more memorable than last weekend's nonsense
But it's a (not a) Bank Holiday and the sun is out, but it counts as one.
When did you leave? 1959.
Nicola Sturgeon's tribute to Her Majesty The Queen in the Scottish Parliament today. It might be the most fulsome encomium to the Sovereign I've heard so far this Platinum Jubilee week.
I wonder if the SNP leader might be a wee bit of a monarchist...
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1532119809160265728
Perhaps Mr Daisley is of a more optimistic persuasion than I, but I did wonder if the fulsome praise of dedication and selfless service might be in (unspoken) contrast to another public servant…..
They both seem really quite unpleasant people, the sort that my mother refers to as "a lovely couple (as they don't spoil another one)".
Rather like the Rooney/Vardy spat, it does show the seamier side of celebrity culture, and the deep unhappiness that lies with in that gilded narcisstic world.
At least our own gilded narcissists have given us a day off in the sun to toast their matriarch. Must get to work to put up the bunting and prepare my trifle.
Both required the status quo or a move from it. If a move from it then that had to be decided. They are identical. I'm not arguing for this type of referendum. On the contrary it is dumb to have a referendum with an open ended outcome like the EU one which left us in limbo. I'm just pointing out the point @rcs1000 made was correct. His was a super analogy.
The fact that the EU referendum did leave us with so many possible outcomes other than staying shows it is the same as a referendum on junking FPTP without a solution That is ok we have decided that, now what? That will be followed by years of argument. Sound familiar?
The obvious answer to both is a referendum on junking something, followed by a referendum on a solution when you have it. You keep the original until you vote on the replacement. That works for leaving the EU and replacing FPTP
Were they all touch rugby ?
And of course you’re right that is a bigger story than last weekend, but last weekend is still pretty bloody serious. 1000s of people robbed, attacked and traumatised, and dozens if not hundreds of sexual assaults - with police officers saying they have never witnessed anything on this scale
It looks like the French now have a toxic cocktail of near-impossible crowd management problems in the face of terrorism, and all of this with a stadium surrounded by Islamist migrants, and on top of that they now have the threat of constant Cologne style mass robbery and sexual molestation
This is a French paper speculating that the mess might cost Macron “fifty deputies”
“It will end up costing us 50 deputies like the social VAT of Borloo”, fears a senior officer of the macronie. Darmanin in the middle of the fire lopinion.fr/politique/stad… by @LVigogne @mdeprieck Drawing @MonsieurKak”
https://twitter.com/carovigoureux/status/1532273757016014848?s=21&t=-8JXjXAEBDrJOgaFrO_IOQ
Personally, I would not go to the Stade de France to watch anything, not now. And I would have been happy to do so, before, because I was oblivious, like all of us
They really should not have built that stadium in Paris 93
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/12/massive-brawl-fancy-dress-boris-johnsons-welsh-rugby-team-12385488/
Here's a link I posted the other day - blind fans with their white sticks subjected to clouds of tear gas at an official gate for disabled people, in a queue with wheelchair users.
1st item in the programme:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017tht
Macron's big risk is his own political situation, and the Olympics - now that the story has broken through.
The idea there is "violence" is ludicrous, although one can never absolutely rule out occasional bad behaviour by a handful of very drunk fans.
Personally I think if a party which campaigns on a change wins they have a reasonable case to just do it through legislation, even on a major matter, and legally that's totally acceptable. Of course, what counts as major is hard to define, many things as major but how many very major? It also could appear hypocritical if a party switched to, say, a system which requires getting at least 50%, yet didnt have that backing itself, but you can only win with the system you already have.
Switching it, to start with, at lower levels could be very simple though. The government has already done the same thing for future PCC elections I think, or intends to.
A burly bloke with tattoos burst out of a LA house and thrust the LD leaflet into my hand. "Bloody rubbish" he said. At another house, man washing his car said he'd vote LD because "you at least are making an effort".
Hard to read the mood. Apathy. Low turnout.
For what it's worth I have £200 on a Tory win. It's a value bet at these odds, though I'll probably lose it.
I fear they are above my pay grade, but.
Firstly. They are fair criticisms. There hasn't been a great deal of the "vision thing" so far. So I'll have a go from my point of view.
"Seek to reset UK capitalism?"
I don't think that's the governments job. That's capitalists' job. The issue is the consumer. In areas the government has some control.
Too often they've been ignored and made to feel confused by the sheer complexity of it all. Look at energy companies. Public transport. Everything is getting more expensive. And, in many cases, the service is getting worse.
Labour needs to be the Party of the consumer champion.
Globalisation is a red herring I think. You don't get anywhere restricting international trade. It's a lose lose. Many of the issues of the Red Wall would be eased if public services weren't in such a dire state. The Tories response is to issue diktats based on the Daily Mail, and flap about for "efficiency savings."
All the while the delivery gets worse. You can't see a GP, get a passport on time, a driving licence or test. Trains cost a fortune and buses don't exist outside London. The police force? Well. Less said.
No one ever seems to start from the question What is the point of it? Buses as an example. What are they for? What should the police be doing? Ask the people who use them. And work from there, with the folk who deliver it, to answer how we get there. And give them the tools to achieve it. It's all tinkering at the moment. Penny pinching and lack of strategic thinking. So. Party of delivery in public services.
Rugby can be quite boisterous, too. Tho it is generally much more good natured than football
I’ve also seen the odd fracas at the cricket. This is simply human. Sport is exciting and people drink before matches and crowds are volatile
Opinion The U.N. human rights chief has failed us, our families — and the world
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/06/01/uyghurs-michelle-bachelet-china-visit-failure/
Here's my wordle. Octordle takes too long.
Wordle 348 3/6
⬜⬜⬜⬜🟩
🟨🟨⬜🟨⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
On topic, it certainly looks pretty bleak for the Tories in these 2. Wakefield should be much easier for Labour due to the circumstances, but the result needs looking at as Labour have performed very poorly in by elections this parliament generally - even in their own seat of Erdington with a healthy poll lead the result was poor for mid term against an unpopular PM, so they really should be taking this in the circs by a big margin. Turnout in Tiverton will be interesting. New LD voters or Tories on their hands? And any defenestration makes it a betting opportunity.
In 24 hours they have received 5000 accounts
5000
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10872795/Liverpool-collate-5-000-testimonies-fans-horrific-Champions-League-final-chaos.html
In the UK crowds have become more middle class and family oriented, in part because of the costs involved, but the Ultras are usually working class men. Supporting a football team is a semi-authorised outlet for aggression, as we see every week in chants, verbal abuse and now social media abuse. It is all part of the atmosphere at big matches. There are few other places where you can shout insults at people in public.
It isn't surprising that it overspills the boundaries to violence at times. It is a difficult situation to police, and it does seem as if the reputation of Liverpool fans caused rather an overreaction by the French Police and SdF management. What looks like exuberent to fans can look potentially riotous to police.
Also progress from Madame Guillotine.
Pianist Stephen Hough has been knighted by Queen Elizabeth—the first British-born concert pianist to receive this honor in more than 40 years.
https://twitter.com/tedgioia/status/1532221288319680512
AIUI and judging by video evidence the police "overreacted" when there was nothing to react to. The alleged protagonist largely did not exist.
Yes, all the pagentry and deference is archaic guff, but a day off in the sunshine imakes it worth raising a glass to the grumpy old dear.