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The Tories look set to lose both June 23rd by-elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    I believe in taking my thoughts straight to the enemy's stronghold, not just sniping opportunistically when the bootlickers are lost in the forest of trying explain away Andrew's sweaty, wandering hands.

    This republican stands by his principles in any weather.
    Yes.

    You're the guy who charges straight at the machine gun nest across 400 yards of no man's land in full view, in the middle of the day, dressed in bright orange whilst carrying a pompous placard and an unloaded antique pistol.

    We feel so sorry for you we don't even shoot you.

    We just laugh at you as you flounder in the mud half-day across and wait for you to go home again.
    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    So here I am. Yes, on This Of All Days. Just to remind the quiet 25% that they aren't alone. Have a lovely day.
    Republicanism has been at 20% for at least 25 years.
    2002-2019: only one poll above 20% for a republic
    2020-now: only one poll BELOW 20% for a republic

    It seems there's been an uptick for republicanism in the last couple of years. There were even three polls in a row up at 29%. I don't know whether lockdown, Brexit, or the imminence of King Charles III has changed people's views, but a few people are shifting to my side. A trickle, not a torrent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Blame Andrew and Harry for the rise in republicanism. Even the Royal family can still have a couple of black sheep.

    Still a long, long way from a majority for a republic though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,646
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    Forced abdication. The firm is pretty good at self policing, they got rid of Edward VIII with more ruthlessness than the Tories have with Boris.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    He can't be King by definition as he was not born into the Royal Family, he could of course be elected President in a Republic though
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    dixiedean said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    I'd go 40/30/5/25
    I'm 2 or 3. Haven't thought about which one.
    Cos, of course, nobody ever dreamt of asking little old me
    I was 2 and am now 3. On a journey (most likely) to 4.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Disgusting disrespect!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,429

    Sandpit said:

    Hang on, it’s 7/3 in the cricket and England are BOWLING?

    That’s a good start to the summer!

    Amazing what a bit of positivity combined with selecting your best players can do.
    Nah - just a Kiwi Jubilee present to Her Maj.....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    edited June 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    It's doubtful that 40% would vote for a Republic atm.
    If Australia can't pass a republican referendum, what are the chances of the UK?

    Australia's vote failed when it became obvious there was no clearly superior alternative, and that any transition would be painful, complex and benefit only a lot of wankers

    It would be the same in the UK times 90,000. Imagine how many things would have to be ripped up and rebuilt to get to a republic, from our stamps and coins to the legal system, the royal navy, the army, the RAF, the whole system of parliament and crown, everything royal this and royal that, the royal British legion, the royal opera house, the royally infused British calendar, everything. It would be a revolutionary act and a kind of nihilism

    People don't vote for pointless nihilistic change with no clearly better alternative. An actual referendum would be emphatically defeated. Polling expresses mere aspiration
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Have to say, whatever you think of the monarchy, however cynical you are or down on Britain the Trooping of the Colour is bloody magnificent as a spectacle.

    It knocks those big presidential parades such as Red Dquare and the French Bastille parade into a cocked hat - there’s something Victorian about it still so a gentle bit of time travel.

    It’s almost, hopefully not being too wanky, a demonstration of an iron fist in a velvet glove by the military rather than the in your face bombast of other parades where they drive the tanks etc etc.

    OTOH the horses sort of got outdated in September 1939. And it's not as if the MoD had had the sense to keep some old Churchill tanks for parades. They do those things better in Burma.
    A visiting friend, from Iceland, commented that the combination of antique uniforms with modern rifles was an interesting touch.

    Most other countries have parade units that carry parade weapons.
    I was surprised they didn't keep some SMLEs or No 4s for that, especially as the new SA80 forced some changes to drill. Though apparently even changing to the SLR needed some changes to the drill.
    When the SA-8x came in, there was an attempt to keep SLR, IIRC, because a bullpup is rubbish for most drill movements.

    The decision to use the standard military rifle for parades was deliberate.
    It’s not a bad very visible reminder to people that these guys are real fighting soldiers. A lot of people don’t realise that and just think they are display teams! Sort of “Red Arrows” on foot…..
    Just as the Red Arrows are actual military pilots, not just hired to be in the display.
    OTOH they are forming an increasing percentage of the shrinking pool of fast jet pilots, and doing it pretty full-time. That is not sustainable, especially as the Hawk is not a front line plane (though that saves on fuel). It's also pretty long in the tooth, a T.1 mark IIRC, so must be needing replacement in a few years?
    Do they not do hours in Typhoons just in case?
    No. RAFAT is a full time job. Interestingly the winter training was at Souda in Greece in this year. Possibly preparing for a post-Akrotiri future...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,755
    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    I'm impressed by your professed lack of selectivity in your prospective partners.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Very compelling indeed. Not at all performative.

    I do hope we don't end up competing with our monarchical/republican loyalties all weekend though, get it out of our systems.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,669
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    You can vote a president out only if you can vote a president in. Since ours would be head of state only and not head of government as in France or America, that is not certain; Boris might be appointed president for life.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Have to say, whatever you think of the monarchy, however cynical you are or down on Britain the Trooping of the Colour is bloody magnificent as a spectacle.

    It knocks those big presidential parades such as Red Dquare and the French Bastille parade into a cocked hat - there’s something Victorian about it still so a gentle bit of time travel.

    It’s almost, hopefully not being too wanky, a demonstration of an iron fist in a velvet glove by the military rather than the in your face bombast of other parades where they drive the tanks etc etc.

    OTOH the horses sort of got outdated in September 1939. And it's not as if the MoD had had the sense to keep some old Churchill tanks for parades. They do those things better in Burma.
    A visiting friend, from Iceland, commented that the combination of antique uniforms with modern rifles was an interesting touch.

    Most other countries have parade units that carry parade weapons.
    I was surprised they didn't keep some SMLEs or No 4s for that, especially as the new SA80 forced some changes to drill. Though apparently even changing to the SLR needed some changes to the drill.
    When the SA-8x came in, there was an attempt to keep SLR, IIRC, because a bullpup is rubbish for most drill movements.

    The decision to use the standard military rifle for parades was deliberate.
    It’s not a bad very visible reminder to people that these guys are real fighting soldiers. A lot of people don’t realise that and just think they are display teams! Sort of “Red Arrows” on foot…..
    Just as the Red Arrows are actual military pilots, not just hired to be in the display.
    That's literally all they ever do. RAFAT has zero combat capability and isn't declared to NATO.
    That’s because they’re the display squadron! Still proper RAF pilots though, most of whom fly Typhoons before their time in the Reds, and go back to flying them afterwards.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,660
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Disgusting disrespect!
    At least he's taking an interest in the RF. Which is more than I am.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    edited June 2022
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    I believe in taking my thoughts straight to the enemy's stronghold, not just sniping opportunistically when the bootlickers are lost in the forest of trying explain away Andrew's sweaty, wandering hands.

    This republican stands by his principles in any weather.
    Yes.

    You're the guy who charges straight at the machine gun nest across 400 yards of no man's land in full view, in the middle of the day, dressed in bright orange whilst carrying a pompous placard and an unloaded antique pistol.

    We feel so sorry for you we don't even shoot you.

    We just laugh at you as you flounder in the mud half-day across and wait for you to go home again.
    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    So here I am. Yes, on This Of All Days. Just to remind the quiet 25% that they aren't alone. Have a lovely day.
    Republicanism has been at 20% for at least 25 years.
    2002-2019: only one poll above 20% for a republic
    2020-now: only one poll BELOW 20% for a republic

    It seems there's been an uptick for republicanism in the last couple of years. There were even three polls in a row up at 29%. I don't know whether lockdown, Brexit, or the imminence of King Charles III has changed people's views, but a few people are shifting to my side. A trickle, not a torrent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
    The 22% for a republic in the latest poll is even 10% less than the 32% who voted for AV in 2011 and even smaller than the 25% of Scots who voted against devolution in 1997 and the 28% of NI voters who voted against the GFA in 1998
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,702

    Sandpit said:

    Hang on, it’s 7/3 in the cricket and England are BOWLING?

    That’s a good start to the summer!

    Amazing what a bit of positivity combined with selecting your best players can do.
    Nah - just a Kiwi Jubilee present to Her Maj.....
    Surely she wins whoever wins?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    There are ways to get rid of bad monarchs. Doesn't usually work out well for the monarch though.

    One who acted (openly) like Boris would see the institution end in a week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    I'd go 40/30/5/25
    Ok, I'll consider that edit. 5% seems low to me for (3) but maybe that's only because I'm a (3).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,429
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Hang on, it’s 7/3 in the cricket and England are BOWLING?

    That’s a good start to the summer!

    Wait until they bat and are 3-7.
    We'd still be in with a shout.....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,646
    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    Forced abdication. The firm is pretty good at self policing, they got rid of Edward VIII with more ruthlessness than the Tories have with Boris.
    Who gets to decide that? Why not the people?
    It is ultimately the people, the firm is very good at seeing which way the wind is blowing.

    They know they're always one bad monarch and a referendum away from living in a council estate.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,385
    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    I'm impressed by your professed lack of selectivity in your prospective partners.
    Proper lolz
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Have to say, whatever you think of the monarchy, however cynical you are or down on Britain the Trooping of the Colour is bloody magnificent as a spectacle.

    It knocks those big presidential parades such as Red Dquare and the French Bastille parade into a cocked hat - there’s something Victorian about it still so a gentle bit of time travel.

    It’s almost, hopefully not being too wanky, a demonstration of an iron fist in a velvet glove by the military rather than the in your face bombast of other parades where they drive the tanks etc etc.

    OTOH the horses sort of got outdated in September 1939. And it's not as if the MoD had had the sense to keep some old Churchill tanks for parades. They do those things better in Burma.
    A visiting friend, from Iceland, commented that the combination of antique uniforms with modern rifles was an interesting touch.

    Most other countries have parade units that carry parade weapons.
    I was surprised they didn't keep some SMLEs or No 4s for that, especially as the new SA80 forced some changes to drill. Though apparently even changing to the SLR needed some changes to the drill.
    When the SA-8x came in, there was an attempt to keep SLR, IIRC, because a bullpup is rubbish for most drill movements.

    The decision to use the standard military rifle for parades was deliberate.
    It’s not a bad very visible reminder to people that these guys are real fighting soldiers. A lot of people don’t realise that and just think they are display teams! Sort of “Red Arrows” on foot…..
    Just as the Red Arrows are actual military pilots, not just hired to be in the display.
    OTOH they are forming an increasing percentage of the shrinking pool of fast jet pilots, and doing it pretty full-time. That is not sustainable, especially as the Hawk is not a front line plane (though that saves on fuel). It's also pretty long in the tooth, a T.1 mark IIRC, so must be needing replacement in a few years?
    Do they not do hours in Typhoons just in case?
    No. RAFAT is a full time job. Interestingly the winter training was at Souda in Greece in this year. Possibly preparing for a post-Akrotiri future...
    Are there moves in that direction or is just sensible contingency?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,429
    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Do I get to pass on Prince Andrew? Just because.....eeeeugh.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
    Best Trooping Of The Colour EVER

    The horses are AMAZING

    ❤️ 🇬🇧
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,385
    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Do I get to pass on Prince Andrew? Just because.....eeeeugh.
    Sure, no sweat
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Have to say, whatever you think of the monarchy, however cynical you are or down on Britain the Trooping of the Colour is bloody magnificent as a spectacle.

    It knocks those big presidential parades such as Red Dquare and the French Bastille parade into a cocked hat - there’s something Victorian about it still so a gentle bit of time travel.

    It’s almost, hopefully not being too wanky, a demonstration of an iron fist in a velvet glove by the military rather than the in your face bombast of other parades where they drive the tanks etc etc.

    OTOH the horses sort of got outdated in September 1939. And it's not as if the MoD had had the sense to keep some old Churchill tanks for parades. They do those things better in Burma.
    A visiting friend, from Iceland, commented that the combination of antique uniforms with modern rifles was an interesting touch.

    Most other countries have parade units that carry parade weapons.
    I was surprised they didn't keep some SMLEs or No 4s for that, especially as the new SA80 forced some changes to drill. Though apparently even changing to the SLR needed some changes to the drill.
    When the SA-8x came in, there was an attempt to keep SLR, IIRC, because a bullpup is rubbish for most drill movements.

    The decision to use the standard military rifle for parades was deliberate.
    It’s not a bad very visible reminder to people that these guys are real fighting soldiers. A lot of people don’t realise that and just think they are display teams! Sort of “Red Arrows” on foot…..
    Just as the Red Arrows are actual military pilots, not just hired to be in the display.
    OTOH they are forming an increasing percentage of the shrinking pool of fast jet pilots, and doing it pretty full-time. That is not sustainable, especially as the Hawk is not a front line plane (though that saves on fuel). It's also pretty long in the tooth, a T.1 mark IIRC, so must be needing replacement in a few years?
    The life of the Hawk T1 is governed by the availability of no longer manufactured parts. The crucial item is canopies. Once they are all consumed the Hawk T1 is done. This year the tories scrapped 100 Sqdn and 736NAS so that freed up a lot of Hawk airframes that can be RTPed for components so the T1 is probably good out to 2030.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    Forced abdication. The firm is pretty good at self policing, they got rid of Edward VIII with more ruthlessness than the Tories have with Boris.
    Who gets to decide that? Why not the people?
    It is ultimately the people, the firm is very good at seeing which way the wind is blowing.

    They know they're always one bad monarch and a referendum away from living in a council estate.
    I doubt even if that ever came to pass they would live on a council estate, the ex King of Greece lived in Hampstead in a £6 million mansion
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,227

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Do I get to pass on Prince Andrew? Just because.....eeeeugh.
    You must be over 18 so I doubt if he would be interested anyway.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,660
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    I believe in taking my thoughts straight to the enemy's stronghold, not just sniping opportunistically when the bootlickers are lost in the forest of trying explain away Andrew's sweaty, wandering hands.

    This republican stands by his principles in any weather.
    Yes.

    You're the guy who charges straight at the machine gun nest across 400 yards of no man's land in full view, in the middle of the day, dressed in bright orange whilst carrying a pompous placard and an unloaded antique pistol.

    We feel so sorry for you we don't even shoot you.

    We just laugh at you as you flounder in the mud half-day across and wait for you to go home again.
    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    So here I am. Yes, on This Of All Days. Just to remind the quiet 25% that they aren't alone. Have a lovely day.
    Republicanism has been at 20% for at least 25 years.
    2002-2019: only one poll above 20% for a republic
    2020-now: only one poll BELOW 20% for a republic

    It seems there's been an uptick for republicanism in the last couple of years. There were even three polls in a row up at 29%. I don't know whether lockdown, Brexit, or the imminence of King Charles III has changed people's views, but a few people are shifting to my side. A trickle, not a torrent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
    The 22% for a republic in the latest poll is even 10% less than the 32% who voted for AV in 2011 and even smaller than the 25% of Scots who voted against devolution in 1997 and the 28% of NI voters who voted against the GFA in 1998
    But it's more than the polling percentage of voters in Scotland (not the same thing as a 'Scot', rmemeber) intending to vote for the Tories at Westminster. So you have no reason to be snotty.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,852
    Sandpit said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    I believe in taking my thoughts straight to the enemy's stronghold, not just sniping opportunistically when the bootlickers are lost in the forest of trying explain away Andrew's sweaty, wandering hands.

    This republican stands by his principles in any weather.
    Yes.

    You're the guy who charges straight at the machine gun nest across 400 yards of no man's land in full view, in the middle of the day, dressed in bright orange whilst carrying a pompous placard and an unloaded antique pistol.

    We feel so sorry for you we don't even shoot you.

    We just laugh at you as you flounder in the mud half-day across and wait for you to go home again.
    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    So here I am. Yes, on This Of All Days. Just to remind the quiet 25% that they aren't alone. Have a lovely day.
    Republicanism has been at 20% for at least 25 years.
    2002-2019: only one poll above 20% for a republic
    2020-now: only one poll BELOW 20% for a republic

    It seems there's been an uptick for republicanism in the last couple of years. There were even three polls in a row up at 29%. I don't know whether lockdown, Brexit, or the imminence of King Charles III has changed people's views, but a few people are shifting to my side. A trickle, not a torrent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
    Blame Andrew and Harry for the rise in republicanism. Even the Royal family can still have a couple of black sheep.

    Still a long, long way from a majority for a republic though.
    Anecdotally I’ve never heard a single person mention Harry as a reason to deplore the monarchy, Andrew otoh..

    Admittedly I don’t tend to hang about guys like these.

    https://youtu.be/pmGjiokfQ2A
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,646

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.
    That's not something to worry about, it's something to have a panic attack about.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Dislike all PB Republicans 😠

    This blog is a home for republicans from all parts of the political spectrum 🤷‍♀️

    You will never win!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    We have had far too many referendums recently, we are a government of parliamentary democracy not direct democracy.

    Though obviously there would never be a referendum on the monarchy under a Tory government, if it happened it would be under a Labour government, though even Starmer has said he now backs a reformed monarchy having replaced the republican Corbyn.

    Note in Australia it is only the arrival of a Labor government that has put a republic on the agenda again but even there opinion is divided and any referendum will probably have to wait for a second term, if Labor is re elected. In 1999 of course Australians voted 55% to keep the monarchy

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html

    Certainly a safe bet it'll go in Oz before here.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    It's doubtful that 40% would vote for a Republic atm.
    If Australia can't pass a republican referendum, what are the chances of the UK?

    Australia's vote failed when it became obvious there was no clearly superior alternative, and that any transition would be painful, complex and benefit only a lot of wankers

    It would be the same in the UK times 90,000. Imagine how many things would have to be ripped up and rebuilt to get to a republic, from our stamps and coins to the legal system, the royal navy, the army, the RAF, the whole system of parliament and crown, everything royal this and royal that, the royal British legion, the royal opera house, the royally infused British calendar, everything. It would be a revolutionary act and a kind of nihilism

    People don't vote for pointless nihilistic change with no clearly better alternative. An actual referendum would be emphatically defeated. Polling expresses mere aspiration
    It would be good if HMQ had had the balls to tell bojo where to stuff his prorogation in 2019 though. Made one think there was a bit of point to her.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    I believe in taking my thoughts straight to the enemy's stronghold, not just sniping opportunistically when the bootlickers are lost in the forest of trying explain away Andrew's sweaty, wandering hands.

    This republican stands by his principles in any weather.
    Yes.

    You're the guy who charges straight at the machine gun nest across 400 yards of no man's land in full view, in the middle of the day, dressed in bright orange whilst carrying a pompous placard and an unloaded antique pistol.

    We feel so sorry for you we don't even shoot you.

    We just laugh at you as you flounder in the mud half-day across and wait for you to go home again.
    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    So here I am. Yes, on This Of All Days. Just to remind the quiet 25% that they aren't alone. Have a lovely day.
    Republicanism has been at 20% for at least 25 years.
    2002-2019: only one poll above 20% for a republic
    2020-now: only one poll BELOW 20% for a republic

    It seems there's been an uptick for republicanism in the last couple of years. There were even three polls in a row up at 29%. I don't know whether lockdown, Brexit, or the imminence of King Charles III has changed people's views, but a few people are shifting to my side. A trickle, not a torrent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
    The 22% for a republic in the latest poll is even 10% less than the 32% who voted for AV in 2011 and even smaller than the 25% of Scots who voted against devolution in 1997 and the 28% of NI voters who voted against the GFA in 1998
    But it's more than the polling percentage of voters in Scotland (not the same thing as a 'Scot', rmemeber) intending to vote for the Tories at Westminster. So you have no reason to be snotty.
    Less than the 25% of Scots who voted Tory in the general election of 2019 and no higher than the number who voted Tory at Holyrood last year either
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,227

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    Another head of the Commonwealth fired by religious zeal.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
    Best Trooping Of The Colour EVER

    The horses are AMAZING

    ❤️ 🇬🇧
    I tried to answer your 2 questions btw. To the best of my ability. Was a while ago now.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,702
    Farooq said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    I believe in taking my thoughts straight to the enemy's stronghold, not just sniping opportunistically when the bootlickers are lost in the forest of trying explain away Andrew's sweaty, wandering hands.

    This republican stands by his principles in any weather.
    Yes.

    You're the guy who charges straight at the machine gun nest across 400 yards of no man's land in full view, in the middle of the day, dressed in bright orange whilst carrying a pompous placard and an unloaded antique pistol.

    We feel so sorry for you we don't even shoot you.

    We just laugh at you as you flounder in the mud half-day across and wait for you to go home again.
    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    So here I am. Yes, on This Of All Days. Just to remind the quiet 25% that they aren't alone. Have a lovely day.
    Republicanism has been at 20% for at least 25 years.
    2002-2019: only one poll above 20% for a republic
    2020-now: only one poll BELOW 20% for a republic

    It seems there's been an uptick for republicanism in the last couple of years. There were even three polls in a row up at 29%. I don't know whether lockdown, Brexit, or the imminence of King Charles III has changed people's views, but a few people are shifting to my side. A trickle, not a torrent.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
    At current trends, there may be a two year window for republicanism between the monarchy and the takeover by AI.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    And does he have an automated Shire Horse in his garden that he practuces drumming on?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,227
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.
    That's not something to worry about, it's something to have a panic attack about.
    I still think Gove and Morgan were even worse, and one of them's still there.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    MaxPB said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    Shame the people keep ignoring you.
    Republicanism is growing.
    But that's fine you are still in the majority; you have your laurels and you can probably rest for a while. We'll wake you up if anything happens.
    It's been growing for the last ten years, for sure. But then, it has flourished before - eg when we actually chopped off the king's head, and had a republic. But then we went back to Royalty

    The madness of King George was a good time for republicanism, also the invisible period of ageing Victoria, likewise the Abdication, but we've never got as close as Cromwellian times ever since

    To put it differently, support for a Republic peaked at 20% in 1993 (then fell back). Must have been Diana times? Right now it is about 25%. So you've gained 5 points in 30 years. At this rate you can expect to get your republic in 150 years time?

    Unless, of course, support for a republic falls back again. As it has done for the last four centuries


    Harry & Meghan, Andrew, people not sure about Charles, Brexit probably pollutes it a little bit, Corbyn didn't help etc.

    But, we know William is very popular and he'll effectively be a deputy King as soon as Charles takes the throne.

    So, i think it will all settle down and it will be fine.
    Two words. President. Johnson.
    You can vote a president out.
    Imagine a King Boris. What would you do then?
    Forced abdication. The firm is pretty good at self policing, they got rid of Edward VIII with more ruthlessness than the Tories have with Boris.
    Who gets to decide that? Why not the people?
    It is ultimately the people, the firm is very good at seeing which way the wind is blowing.

    They know they're always one bad monarch and a referendum away from living in a council estate.
    I doubt even if that ever came to pass they would live on a council estate, the ex King of Greece lived in Hampstead in a £6 million mansion
    Not with the current waiting lists.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,385
    Lol and absolutely not me.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Why 82 guns? Its 2 short of 4 21 gun salutes
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464
    edited June 2022
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    We have had far too many referendums recently, we are a government of parliamentary democracy not direct democracy.

    Though obviously there would never be a referendum on the monarchy under a Tory government, if it happened it would be under a Labour government, though even Starmer has said he now backs a reformed monarchy having replaced the republican Corbyn.

    Note in Australia it is only the arrival of a Labor government that has put a republic on the agenda again but even there opinion is divided and any referendum will probably have to wait for a second term, if Labor is re elected. In 1999 of course Australians voted 55% to keep the monarchy

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html

    Certainly a safe bet it'll go in Oz before here.
    I expect a referendum in Australia within 5 years, probably in Labor's second term if Albanese is re elected.

    I would not rule out the monarchy scraping home though, while the cities will vote for a republic, rural and small town and outer suburban Australia is much less keen.

    In 1999 for example Queensland was over 60% to keep the monarchy
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Have to say, whatever you think of the monarchy, however cynical you are or down on Britain the Trooping of the Colour is bloody magnificent as a spectacle.

    It knocks those big presidential parades such as Red Dquare and the French Bastille parade into a cocked hat - there’s something Victorian about it still so a gentle bit of time travel.

    It’s almost, hopefully not being too wanky, a demonstration of an iron fist in a velvet glove by the military rather than the in your face bombast of other parades where they drive the tanks etc etc.

    OTOH the horses sort of got outdated in September 1939. And it's not as if the MoD had had the sense to keep some old Churchill tanks for parades. They do those things better in Burma.
    A visiting friend, from Iceland, commented that the combination of antique uniforms with modern rifles was an interesting touch.

    Most other countries have parade units that carry parade weapons.
    I was surprised they didn't keep some SMLEs or No 4s for that, especially as the new SA80 forced some changes to drill. Though apparently even changing to the SLR needed some changes to the drill.
    When the SA-8x came in, there was an attempt to keep SLR, IIRC, because a bullpup is rubbish for most drill movements.

    The decision to use the standard military rifle for parades was deliberate.
    It’s not a bad very visible reminder to people that these guys are real fighting soldiers. A lot of people don’t realise that and just think they are display teams! Sort of “Red Arrows” on foot…..
    Just as the Red Arrows are actual military pilots, not just hired to be in the display.
    OTOH they are forming an increasing percentage of the shrinking pool of fast jet pilots, and doing it pretty full-time. That is not sustainable, especially as the Hawk is not a front line plane (though that saves on fuel). It's also pretty long in the tooth, a T.1 mark IIRC, so must be needing replacement in a few years?
    Do they not do hours in Typhoons just in case?
    No. RAFAT is a full time job. Interestingly the winter training was at Souda in Greece in this year. Possibly preparing for a post-Akrotiri future...
    Are there moves in that direction or is just sensible contingency?
    Akrotiri is very expensive and exists mainly to... er.. defend the airspace around Akrotiri. There is a lot of sneaky beaky SIGINT/ELINT stuff going on there that would probably stay and doesn't need a fully functional airfield.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424

    Why 82 guns? Its 2 short of 4 21 gun salutes

    It’s two 41-gun salutes.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,385
    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George may turn out to be another Andy.

    Who knows.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946

    Sandpit said:

    Hang on, it’s 7/3 in the cricket and England are BOWLING?

    That’s a good start to the summer!

    Amazing what a bit of positivity combined with selecting your best players can do.
    Nah - just a Kiwi Jubilee present to Her Maj.....
    Never seen her down the nets, not sure she's a fan of the great game.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Sandpit said:

    Why 82 guns? Its 2 short of 4 21 gun salutes

    It’s two 41-gun salutes.
    Is 41 a thing?!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,493

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    5. Republicans, who wouldn't want to change it whilst Liz is around.
    I am sure that London Bridge will be an over the top event, but after that things may well fall apart for the Monarchy as other Commonwealth countries become republics. I suspect it will carry on for the forseable future in England as the irrelevant anachronism that it is. The real test will be when a total shit becomes monarch, as has happened a number of times in the past, and will at some point happen again, such is the genetic lottery of monarchy.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    hate the Tories for disrespecting our Queen

    You will pay!

    image
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    Dura_Ace said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Have to say, whatever you think of the monarchy, however cynical you are or down on Britain the Trooping of the Colour is bloody magnificent as a spectacle.

    It knocks those big presidential parades such as Red Dquare and the French Bastille parade into a cocked hat - there’s something Victorian about it still so a gentle bit of time travel.

    It’s almost, hopefully not being too wanky, a demonstration of an iron fist in a velvet glove by the military rather than the in your face bombast of other parades where they drive the tanks etc etc.

    OTOH the horses sort of got outdated in September 1939. And it's not as if the MoD had had the sense to keep some old Churchill tanks for parades. They do those things better in Burma.
    A visiting friend, from Iceland, commented that the combination of antique uniforms with modern rifles was an interesting touch.

    Most other countries have parade units that carry parade weapons.
    I was surprised they didn't keep some SMLEs or No 4s for that, especially as the new SA80 forced some changes to drill. Though apparently even changing to the SLR needed some changes to the drill.
    When the SA-8x came in, there was an attempt to keep SLR, IIRC, because a bullpup is rubbish for most drill movements.

    The decision to use the standard military rifle for parades was deliberate.
    It’s not a bad very visible reminder to people that these guys are real fighting soldiers. A lot of people don’t realise that and just think they are display teams! Sort of “Red Arrows” on foot…..
    Just as the Red Arrows are actual military pilots, not just hired to be in the display.
    OTOH they are forming an increasing percentage of the shrinking pool of fast jet pilots, and doing it pretty full-time. That is not sustainable, especially as the Hawk is not a front line plane (though that saves on fuel). It's also pretty long in the tooth, a T.1 mark IIRC, so must be needing replacement in a few years?
    Do they not do hours in Typhoons just in case?
    No. RAFAT is a full time job. Interestingly the winter training was at Souda in Greece in this year. Possibly preparing for a post-Akrotiri future...
    Are there moves in that direction or is just sensible contingency?
    Akrotiri is very expensive and exists mainly to... er.. defend the airspace around Akrotiri. There is a lot of sneaky beaky SIGINT/ELINT stuff going on there that would probably stay and doesn't need a fully functional airfield.


    I suppose a problem in these matters is if you get rid and change your mind, you ain't getting something like it back.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,376
    edited June 2022
    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,129
    edited June 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    It's doubtful that 40% would vote for a Republic atm.
    If Australia can't pass a republican referendum, what are the chances of the UK?

    Australia's vote failed when it became obvious there was no clearly superior alternative, and that any transition would be painful, complex and benefit only a lot of wankers

    It would be the same in the UK times 90,000. Imagine how many things would have to be ripped up and rebuilt to get to a republic, from our stamps and coins to the legal system, the royal navy, the army, the RAF, the whole system of parliament and crown, everything royal this and royal that, the royal British legion, the royal opera house, the royally infused British calendar, everything. It would be a revolutionary act and a kind of nihilism

    People don't vote for pointless nihilistic change with no clearly better alternative. An actual referendum would be emphatically defeated. Polling expresses mere aspiration
    It would be good if HMQ had had the balls to tell bojo where to stuff his prorogation in 2019 though. Made one think there was a bit of point to her.
    As someone who strongly opposed the 2019 prorogation, I have to say this is absolute nonsense. As soon as the Monarch starts second guessing the PM on use of prerogative powers, the monarchy is politicised and doomed. This is exactly how monarchies die in democracies - they get involved in tussles with elected leaders, and only need to misjudge one and are finished.

    The prorogation was challenged in the courts and found to be illegal. HMQ didn't need to tell anyone where to stuff anything and, whilst I'd have rather enjoyed it at the time, it's pretty clear she was sensible to stay out of it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    It's doubtful that 40% would vote for a Republic atm.
    If Australia can't pass a republican referendum, what are the chances of the UK?

    Australia's vote failed when it became obvious there was no clearly superior alternative, and that any transition would be painful, complex and benefit only a lot of wankers

    It would be the same in the UK times 90,000. Imagine how many things would have to be ripped up and rebuilt to get to a republic, from our stamps and coins to the legal system, the royal navy, the army, the RAF, the whole system of parliament and crown, everything royal this and royal that, the royal British legion, the royal opera house, the royally infused British calendar, everything. It would be a revolutionary act and a kind of nihilism

    People don't vote for pointless nihilistic change with no clearly better alternative. An actual referendum would be emphatically defeated. Polling expresses mere aspiration
    It would be good if HMQ had had the balls to tell bojo where to stuff his prorogation in 2019 though. Made one think there was a bit of point to her.
    People said that at the time but some of it was pretty disingenous - since would a committed republican really be saying they wanted the unelected, ceremonial, head of state to have the actual (not just theoretical) power to countermand the democratic head of government? Of course they wouldn't.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Nonsense, because if he had been in line he'd have had an income which would leave him above the fray of sucking up to that Epstein bloke, and superior totty procured for him by proper professional courtiers and MI5 to shoot dead anyone who felt like going to the press about it.

    And look at Clinton, Trump, JFK...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,424
    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    I’ll drink to that! Cheers.
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    We have had far too many referendums recently, we are a government of parliamentary democracy not direct democracy.

    Though obviously there would never be a referendum on the monarchy under a Tory government, if it happened it would be under a Labour government, though even Starmer has said he now backs a reformed monarchy having replaced the republican Corbyn.

    Note in Australia it is only the arrival of a Labor government that has put a republic on the agenda again but even there opinion is divided and any referendum will probably have to wait for a second term, if Labor is re elected. In 1999 of course Australians voted 55% to keep the monarchy

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html

    Certainly a safe bet it'll go in Oz before here.
    I expect a referendum in Australia within 5 years, probably in Labor's second term if Albanese is re elected.

    I would not rule out the monarchy scraping home though, while the cities will vote for a republic, rural and small town and outer suburban Australia is much less keen.

    In 1999 for example Queensland was over 60% to keep the monarchy
    Rather crucially, well over 80% of Aussies live in cities.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,646

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George may turn out to be another Andy.

    Who knows.
    The firm will make Charlotte queen in that case. They really are very good at reading the runes. Better than the Tory party, at least.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    It's doubtful that 40% would vote for a Republic atm.
    If Australia can't pass a republican referendum, what are the chances of the UK?

    Australia's vote failed when it became obvious there was no clearly superior alternative, and that any transition would be painful, complex and benefit only a lot of wankers

    It would be the same in the UK times 90,000. Imagine how many things would have to be ripped up and rebuilt to get to a republic, from our stamps and coins to the legal system, the royal navy, the army, the RAF, the whole system of parliament and crown, everything royal this and royal that, the royal British legion, the royal opera house, the royally infused British calendar, everything. It would be a revolutionary act and a kind of nihilism

    People don't vote for pointless nihilistic change with no clearly better alternative. An actual referendum would be emphatically defeated. Polling expresses mere aspiration
    It would be good if HMQ had had the balls to tell bojo where to stuff his prorogation in 2019 though. Made one think there was a bit of point to her.
    People said that at the time but some of it was pretty disingenous - since would a committed republican really be saying they wanted the unelected, ceremonial, head of state to have the actual (not just theoretical) power to countermand the democratic head of government? Of course they wouldn't.
    Well, why could it not be a committed monarchist saying it? But the point is there is nonobdy to tell Boris to fuck off; a president would be able to
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,660

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    It's doubtful that 40% would vote for a Republic atm.
    If Australia can't pass a republican referendum, what are the chances of the UK?

    Australia's vote failed when it became obvious there was no clearly superior alternative, and that any transition would be painful, complex and benefit only a lot of wankers

    It would be the same in the UK times 90,000. Imagine how many things would have to be ripped up and rebuilt to get to a republic, from our stamps and coins to the legal system, the royal navy, the army, the RAF, the whole system of parliament and crown, everything royal this and royal that, the royal British legion, the royal opera house, the royally infused British calendar, everything. It would be a revolutionary act and a kind of nihilism

    People don't vote for pointless nihilistic change with no clearly better alternative. An actual referendum would be emphatically defeated. Polling expresses mere aspiration
    It would be good if HMQ had had the balls to tell bojo where to stuff his prorogation in 2019 though. Made one think there was a bit of point to her.
    As someone who strongly opposed the 2019 prorogation, I have to say this is absolute nonsense. As soon as the Monarch starts second guessing the PM on use of prerogative powers, the monarchy is politicised and doomed. This is exactly how monarchies die in democracies - they get involved in tussles with elected leaders, and only need to misjudge one and are finished.

    The prorogation was challenged in the courts and found to be illegal. HMQ didn't need to tell anyone where to stuff anything and, whilst I'd have rather enjoyed it at the time, it's pretty clear she was sensible to stay out of it.
    HMtQ crossed that line in the Scottish referendum: a toe, perhaps, but a toe too far.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited June 2022
    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Highly inappropriate comment at a moment like this.

    Edit: Hang on, just read more of the thread, she's not dead, it's just some kind of jamboree or something???
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    I'm not a monarchist, but we are where we are and I see some benefits. Cruel to the family in many ways but if they want to stick with it hey ho.

    Out of interest, assuming that you (like me) were opposed to the Brexit Referendum why would you be in favour of a referendum on this?
    Yes, I'm generally anti Rs but I can't think of a better alternative when it comes to big constitutional questions as this would be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871
    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,227
    @MoonRabbit

    Who on earth would put that image of JRM up?

    I can't even bear to quote it.

    I'm going to need therapy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,136
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    Just to be clear - and @Farooq tried to make a similar point earlier - I am perfectly calm and thoroughly enjoying today.

    My sentiments on republicans and the arguments they advance for a republic are entirely sincere.

    What irritation I expressed earlier was for the crassness and rudeness of some republicans trying to piss on her day.

    It doesn't mean I share their empty frustration and anger.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    This all needs a really innocuous weird moment to define it.
    Like a bit where the Queen holds up a spark plug and we all sing Onward Christian Soldiers
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,007
    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George might become a Randy Andy.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,646
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    I'm not a monarchist, but we are where we are and I see some benefits. Cruel to the family in many ways but if they want to stick with it hey ho.

    Out of interest, assuming that you (like me) were opposed to the Brexit Referendum why would you be in favour of a referendum on this?
    Yes, I'm generally anti Rs but I can't think of a better alternative when it comes to big constitutional questions as this would be.
    I'm apathetic but agree with the sentiment. I can't get along with creating a new political centre of gravity in the UK with an elected head of state that would rival Parliament.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    George might become a Randy Andy.
    Or they all go papist up to Andrew
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,136
    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,824
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
    Best Trooping Of The Colour EVER

    The horses are AMAZING

    ❤️ 🇬🇧
    I tried to answer your 2 questions btw. To the best of my ability. Was a while ago now.

    Dislike all PB Republicans 😠

    This blog is a home for republicans from all parts of the political spectrum 🤷‍♀️

    You will never win!

    If Republicans had a snowball's chance in hell, they wouldn't whinge so much :smile: .
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,660

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
    The Cavaliers liked using four letter words, the Roundheads didn't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Highly inappropriate comment at a moment like this.

    Edit: Hang on, just read more of the thread, she's not dead, it's just some kind of jamboree or something???
    Well, yes, but this is on some peoples' minds.

    The 1977 Silver Jubilee was a chance to pause, with much of the reign to come, to look both back and forward.

    The 2002 Golden Jubilee was a reset after a storm-tossed decade of scandal, divorces and missteps.

    In 2012, the Diamond Jubilee was a reaffirmation of the Queen's place in the nation's affections.

    This Platinum Jubilee will be different. Because this is farewell.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61645993
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,871

    This all needs a really innocuous weird moment to define it.
    Like a bit where the Queen holds up a spark plug and we all sing Onward Christian Soldiers

    For me it was the men in gold coats banging twin kettle drums on huge shire horses

    What more do you want?? A silver toad dancing on a flute played by the late Keith Chegwin? That happens only on years ending in a 3
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,748
    carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Tips on what to see in Lisbon please - 2 and a bit days

    Tips on what to see in Faro please - 3 hours, near train station

    Cheers all.

    Once you are at Faro you have the Algarve line at your disposal:


    That's what I'm taking hence the 3 hour wait between arriving from Lisbon and leaving on the Algarve line.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,741
    Her Maj pulls herself away from the cricket
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    It's all that nipping to the offy, bar and for a piss.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,824
    edited June 2022
    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,464

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:


    "No man's land" is surprisingly crowded these days. A good one in six are undecided on keeping the monarchy.
    On my side of the lines, we've got about a quarter of the population.

    Surprised? Me too. Seems like there's a problem with those voices of republicans getting heard despite our numbers growing.

    .

    Really? That sounds a bit dramatic to me, I've never noticed republicans having difficulty getting heard in any context.
    Perhaps it's just a perception bias. I was surprised to find that there's as much support as there is for a republic. I thought, much like Casino_Royale, that numbers were small.
    Same here. I'm surprised by how much Republican sentiment there is. And once we get post QE2 I'd think it would only grow.

    There are 4 categories of people, I'd say.

    1. Monarchists.
    2. Not fussed but would vote to keep if asked.
    3. Not fussed but would vote to scrap if asked.
    4. Republicans.

    ATM spread approx 25/35/15/25.

    So, as per usual, it's about moving that middle ground. If lots of 2s become 3s the pressure will build for a Referendum.

    Because you can't just keep ignoring the people.
    We have had far too many referendums recently, we are a government of parliamentary democracy not direct democracy.

    Though obviously there would never be a referendum on the monarchy under a Tory government, if it happened it would be under a Labour government, though even Starmer has said he now backs a reformed monarchy having replaced the republican Corbyn.

    Note in Australia it is only the arrival of a Labor government that has put a republic on the agenda again but even there opinion is divided and any referendum will probably have to wait for a second term, if Labor is re elected. In 1999 of course Australians voted 55% to keep the monarchy

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html

    Certainly a safe bet it'll go in Oz before here.
    I expect a referendum in Australia within 5 years, probably in Labor's second term if Albanese is re elected.

    I would not rule out the monarchy scraping home though, while the cities will vote for a republic, rural and small town and outer suburban Australia is much less keen.

    In 1999 for example Queensland was over 60% to keep the monarchy
    Rather crucially, well over 80% of Aussies live in cities.
    Most of them don't live in the inner cities though.

    They live in outer suburbs which together with rural areas and small towns make up over 50%.

    In 1999 for example 55% of Australians voted for the monarchy staying, 45% for a republic.

    However in the big cities the pro republic vote was higher, hence in Victoria, containing Melbourne, 49% voted for a republic and in NSW, containing Sydney, 46% voted for a republic. ACT, containing the Australian capital Canberra, actually voted 63% for a republic
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    OllyT said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Farooq said:

    Republic. Now.

    Obviously. Tomorrow is too late.


    I’m afraid the endearing ineptitude of that makes me more of a monarchist
    Republicans always get their timing, tone and arguments wrong. Always wrong.

    They will try again at the next coronation, and lose then too.

    They will always lose.
    Yep

    The genius of a monarchy is its predictably human unpredictability. So it has inherent drama, like a soap opera, and we are all addicted, even when it takes a dark turn

    So you get periods when it’s awful, ugh, Prince Andrew is a fiddler, yuk, and the Queen is nearly dead, oh no, and then suddenly you get a birth or a birthday or a wedding and then Yay, look, the Mall is lovely in the sun! - it reminds me of having a baby which is exactly like Brexit, no, it’s like bringing up a baby - you have periods when it is all nappies and what the F and then you get the first smile or the first word and happiness is unconfined

    Except for the churlish, joyless republicans, but then I suspect they get a secret surly joy out of being churlish and joyless, so it’s all good

    Yes, they are rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people.

    Nobody can watch Trooping the Colour today and tell us that a republic would better; still less an elected head of state that would command neither the history, prestige or magic of a monarchial family stretching back 1,000 years nor provide its continuity or unity. It wouldn't help in providing a unifying role for the State above the dirty squabbles and pettiness of day to day politics and political behaviour. And nor would it aid Britain in enhancing its profile and admiration around the world.

    Republics are either political and divisive, or entirely forgettable and boring.

    I have no desire to replace something so magical and wonderful that works so well for us to satisfy the neurosis and insecurities of a small minority.
    Blimey, all that rage against people who simply have the temerity to believe our head of state should not be an hereditary position. Hardly a bizarre notion across most of the world.

    You need to reign it in or in a few years you are going to find yourself sat on the Mall in the pouring rain at midnight with your union Jack underpants on your head.
    REIN it in

    I cannot get over a post on this topic, in which the words "rude, humourless, joyless, self-obsessed and rather pompous people" are applied to *opponents* of the Royal Family.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    Woman who stands zilch chance of retaining her high profile cabinet job in a change, against change shocker!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/priti-patel-jubilee-celebrations-mps-plotting-no-confidence-letters
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946

    Woman who stands zilch chance of retaining her high profile cabinet job in a change, against change shocker!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/02/priti-patel-jubilee-celebrations-mps-plotting-no-confidence-letters

    And of course it is shocking disloyalty to plot against the PM, except that most of the present Cabinet were probably among those who did it to the last PM, when it was proper loyalty to the party no doubt.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,400
    edited June 2022
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Trooping the Colour is a truly bizarre mix of the Utterly Absurd and Unexpectedly Impressive, with a dash of peculiar melodrama

    British history as dressage

    Who the fuck are the guys banging drums on top of shire horses?? Why??

    And yet, Wow men can bang big drums on top of shire horses. Who knew

    Drum horses are equal opportunity.

    https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/pride-as-shire-horse-to-become-household-cavalrys-first-female-drum-horse-745773

    Do they get to self-identify?
    Being on grey horse and drum banging comes from battle, and important on battlefield. This is like practice or drill for real thing isn’t it?

    Love seeing so many girls on these horses today! #HerGameToo
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
    The Parliamentary areas map quite well onto the areas of earliest and greatest Anglo-Saxon settlement.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Highly inappropriate comment at a moment like this.

    Edit: Hang on, just read more of the thread, she's not dead, it's just some kind of jamboree or something???
    Well, yes, but this is on some peoples' minds.

    The 1977 Silver Jubilee was a chance to pause, with much of the reign to come, to look both back and forward.

    The 2002 Golden Jubilee was a reset after a storm-tossed decade of scandal, divorces and missteps.

    In 2012, the Diamond Jubilee was a reaffirmation of the Queen's place in the nation's affections.

    This Platinum Jubilee will be different. Because this is farewell.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61645993
    As much as June 30 1997 marked the end of Empire, this weekend and the eventual funeral when the bridge is down mark the final transition from what we were as a nation to whatever it is the future holds. Change is of course ongoing but its the moments that mark the change.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Heavy drinkers ‘healthier and happier in later years’
    Drinking heavily may be the key to staying happy and healthy in later life, a study has found." (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw

    lol


    "One third of the participants were classified as drinking “potentially unhealthy” quantities. This included those who enjoyed a drink at least four nights a week or people who regularly had the equivalent of two bottles of wine in a single day.

    "This group of heavy drinkers were slimmer, happier and more mobile than their teetotal and low-drinking counterparts, the researchers found."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/heavy-drinkers-healthier-and-happier-in-later-years-tnsrz8zqw
    The best article on any subject that I have ever read.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,363
    edited June 2022
    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Time to update my profile pic on this momentous day.

    I'm a fan. The army wouldn't wear it, but I do wonder what would have happened had he taken the crown officially, or picked a different son to succeed him who was more able and able to work the different sides.
    Fascinatingly, Cromwell was able to trace his family back to pre-Norman times: they were Anglo-Saxon nobility

    The Anglo-Saxon aspect of the geographical distribution of Parliamentary support is an underplayed aspect of Civil War history I feel.
    What two sides are you referring to? English civil war Saxons v Norman’s?
    The Cavaliers liked using four letter words, the Roundheads didn't.
    They were quite enthusiastic about pray! and don't!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    MaxPB said:

    I see your President Johnson and raise you the possibility of a future King Randy Andy.

    Doesn't that involve Charles, Wills, George, Charlotte, Louis, Harry and Harry's kids dying first though? That's a pretty long list.
    Charlotte has been absolutely delightful today. Smiling and waving and making eye contact with all the crowds.

    The monarchy has a very long and happy future.
    After the Trooping of the Colour, the Passing of the Sickbag.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,946
    MattW said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    New Zealand not enjoying this, are they?

    I always worry if Williamson is still there.
    Like the Cabinet then.

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:


    Whatever your views on the monarchy you could at least show her a bit of respect and some grace.

    Fuck her and fuck every single member of her revolting family.
    Hahaha

    That's it then. That's Actual Jubilee. @Dura_Ace has gotten off his sofa, wearing his off-white anarchist y-fronts, and has kicked in the TV screen, scattering Ukrainians

    This is the moment. God save 'er maj
    Best Trooping Of The Colour EVER

    The horses are AMAZING

    ❤️ 🇬🇧
    I tried to answer your 2 questions btw. To the best of my ability. Was a while ago now.

    Dislike all PB Republicans 😠

    This blog is a home for republicans from all parts of the political spectrum 🤷‍♀️

    You will never win!

    If Republicans had a snowball's chance in hell, they wouldn't whinge so much :smile: .
    There's cold and ice in hell as well!
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