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Punters think the Ukraine invasion will help Johnson’s survival chances – politicalbetting.com

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  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Farage and Salmond are both scum.
  • Nigelb said:

    Such displays of public protest are seriously brave in Putin’s Russia.

    Elena Kovalskaya, the director of Moscow’s Vsevolod Meyerhold State Theater and Cultural Center, has announced her resignation in protest against the invasion of Ukraine. “It’s impossible to work for a murderer and collect a salary from him,” she writes.
    https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1496850934298726405

    We should offer asylum to regime dissidents like this.
    The director of a theatre named after a person murdered by the Russian State flips the bird at the Russian State?

    Damn....
    weird reposte? a bit smarmy
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165
    Aslan said:

    Seen on social media:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0epur/comment/hya0au3/

    "Seriously this whole thing has pushed my view of the UK back up, basically all the intelligence has from them and they are open about it, they sent arms and the provided training on how to use them, were very vocal about what would happen if they invaded and are now pushing this. Just like with Covid vaccines the UK is proving that, maybe for something's, leaving the EU was a good thing, they have their voice back and they are not afraid to use it."

    Yep, Brexit makes sense because of something I read on Reddit.
  • Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.
    I'm tempted to say only if a nightclub and a ton of booze was involved, but now is not the time etc.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    I was reading up on it yesterday, the argument is it might be bigged up how much it hurts Putin vs the pain to ourselves. Putin has already war gamed we could do it and offset, not entirely obviously, by setting up an alternative. Whilst politicians are now desperate to look tough to their own domestic audiences.

    The bottom line is, it was right for HoC to show the solidarity today, but it’s not going to last towards the sanction package as details emerge.
    Western economies are large, highly diverse and flexible. Russia's is not. No banking flows and no gas exports completely screws them more than us. Putin’s calculation isn't that he could withstand hard sanctions. It is that the West wouldn't push them through and sustain them.
    RU economy, despite its massive landmass, is no bigger than Italy's. Desperately reliant on a few core materials and minings/oil/gas production.

    Misleading surely. Russia is on a par with Germany in PPP GDP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
  • Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?

    davos
    That scary Dalek fellah?
    yes
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    Begins to make up for the many times he has been missing in action (or inaction).
    Johnson has been on form today. I'm am not one of his supporters to say the least, but he has at least ditched the smirk and the jokes and the faux hard hat bollx and done a couple of decent speeches and performances.

    I didn't notice any change. Just lost one flag. A hard hat or a nurses uniform would have looked ridiculous even by his standards. Otherwise looked like the same old spiv
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,370
    On GB News, Farage is in Florida talking to Trump supporters.
  • Aslan said:

    Seen on social media:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0epur/comment/hya0au3/

    "Seriously this whole thing has pushed my view of the UK back up, basically all the intelligence has from them and they are open about it, they sent arms and the provided training on how to use them, were very vocal about what would happen if they invaded and are now pushing this. Just like with Covid vaccines the UK is proving that, maybe for something's, leaving the EU was a good thing, they have their voice back and they are not afraid to use it."

    Yep, Brexit makes sense because of something I read on Reddit.
    It is a nice sentiment though Brexit is a red herring.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.
    10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.
  • Aslan said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Completely agree! Neutrality in the face of evil is evil.
    but if they dont wanna join what is there to do?
  • Russian oligarchs are already emailing UK journos demanding they withdraw references to criminality/Putin links. Boris Johnson should change UK's insane libel law.

    https://twitter.com/TomRtweets/status/1496912044595228672

    If any court finds the journalists guilty I will be very disappointed. I would hope that exemplary costs would be awarded against the oligarchs.
    I thought it wuz rayzist to refer to these proud Brit billionaires as Russian oligarchs?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    Yokes said:

    I dont want to disappoint anyone but whilst the Ukrainians are putting up resistance the Russian have only committed a fraction of their first echelon forces so there is more to come. The likes of the possibly failed smash and grab on the Hostomel airfield near Kiev are prelims.

    It is imperative that whatever airpower the ukraine has stays intact overnight as the Russians are looking for it. Just as important if they can somehow do it is disrupt russian airpower at source, as the Russian advantages there are bigger than any other particular capability between the forces.

    Good evening yokes. Is one of the weaknesses with fighter aircraft, opponents can too easily take out the runways they need for take off?

    And a supplementary question if I may, I don’t know if you have read all this thread, but what is your understanding why Russia had such urgency to secure Chernobyl?
  • BBC World News page is showing a photo of a downed plane but no caption explaining what, where, when or who. And there's no explanation in the connected story either (or none that I can find). The use of unexplained mood pics like this is the epitome of irresponsible journalism.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited February 2022
    Roger said:

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    Begins to make up for the many times he has been missing in action (or inaction).
    Johnson has been on form today. I'm am not one of his supporters to say the least, but he has at least ditched the smirk and the jokes and the faux hard hat bollx and done a couple of decent speeches and performances.

    I didn't notice any change. Just lost one flag. A hard hat or a nurses uniform would have looked ridiculous even by his standards. Otherwise looked like the same old spiv
    I dare say he could find a friendly regiment or RAF squadron or station to adopt him as their honorary colonel / air commodore so he could put on khaki / air force blue. That was the basis by which Churchill wore uniforms during WW2
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,369

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.
    10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.
    10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?

    davos
    That scary Dalek fellah?
    Yes and no. He was a Kaled.
  • Yokes said:

    I dont want to disappoint anyone but whilst the Ukrainians are putting up resistance the Russian have only committed a fraction of their first echelon forces so there is more to come. The likes of the possibly failed smash and grab on the Hostomel airfield near Kiev are prelims.

    It is imperative that whatever airpower the ukraine has stays intact overnight as the Russians are looking for it. Just as important if they can somehow do it is disrupt russian airpower at source, as the Russian advantages there are bigger than any other particular capability between the forces.

    Good evening yokes. Is one of the weaknesses with fighter aircraft, opponents can too easily take out the runways they need for take off?

    And a supplementary question if I may, I don’t know if you have read all this thread, but what is your understanding why Russia had such urgency to secure Chernobyl?
    It's the quickest route to Kyiv.
  • Yokes said:

    I dont want to disappoint anyone but whilst the Ukrainians are putting up resistance the Russian have only committed a fraction of their first echelon forces so there is more to come. The likes of the possibly failed smash and grab on the Hostomel airfield near Kiev are prelims.

    It is imperative that whatever airpower the ukraine has stays intact overnight as the Russians are looking for it. Just as important if they can somehow do it is disrupt russian airpower at source, as the Russian advantages there are bigger than any other particular capability between the forces.

    Good evening yokes. Is one of the weaknesses with fighter aircraft, opponents can too easily take out the runways they need for take off?

    And a supplementary question if I may, I don’t know if you have read all this thread, but what is your understanding why Russia had such urgency to secure Chernobyl?
    well I woudl have thought because of the nuclear material there and its proximity to its ally
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165

    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    I was reading up on it yesterday, the argument is it might be bigged up how much it hurts Putin vs the pain to ourselves. Putin has already war gamed we could do it and offset, not entirely obviously, by setting up an alternative. Whilst politicians are now desperate to look tough to their own domestic audiences.

    The bottom line is, it was right for HoC to show the solidarity today, but it’s not going to last towards the sanction package as details emerge.
    Western economies are large, highly diverse and flexible. Russia's is not. No banking flows and no gas exports completely screws them more than us. Putin’s calculation isn't that he could withstand hard sanctions. It is that the West wouldn't push them through and sustain them.
    RU economy, despite its massive landmass, is no bigger than Italy's. Desperately reliant on a few core materials and minings/oil/gas production.

    Misleading surely. Russia is on a par with Germany in PPP GDP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
    If you think about it, PPP GDP is such a bullshit measure.

    It doesn’t measure the average person’s wealth nor the aggregate size of the country’s economy. Personally I find it meaningless.

    Nevertheless, the idea that Russia is just “Belgium” or even “Italy” is also bunk. Russia is powerful outwith mere GDP because it has various unique assets AND it is not afraid to use them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    OT. Matt frei is no substitute for John Snow. He prepares the question but doesn't listen to the answers so his interviews never get off the ground. The difference between a TV journalist and a news reader
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    Nigelb said:

    Such displays of public protest are seriously brave in Putin’s Russia.

    Elena Kovalskaya, the director of Moscow’s Vsevolod Meyerhold State Theater and Cultural Center, has announced her resignation in protest against the invasion of Ukraine. “It’s impossible to work for a murderer and collect a salary from him,” she writes.
    https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1496850934298726405

    We should offer asylum to regime dissidents like this.
    The director of a theatre named after a person murdered by the Russian State flips the bird at the Russian State?

    Damn....
    Actually he was murdered by the Soviet state.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,625
    edited February 2022

    Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?

    davos
    That scary Dalek fellah?
    Their creator. Hitler in essence as the Daleks are, basically, the Nazis.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    BBC World News page is showing a photo of a downed plane but no caption explaining what, where, when or who. And there's no explanation in the connected story either (or none that I can find). The use of unexplained mood pics like this is the epitome of irresponsible journalism.

    I had been thinking the same thing and assumed I must have missed it somehow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,429
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
    Sweden and Finland are well armed and coordinate with NATO to the point of being associate partners. Given some of the contributions (or lack of them) from some actual NATO members.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    Begins to make up for the many times he has been missing in action (or inaction).
    Johnson has been on form today. I'm am not one of his supporters to say the least, but he has at least ditched the smirk and the jokes and the faux hard hat bollx and done a couple of decent speeches and performances.

    That's part of what is infuriating about him. He is capable of getting serious, and day to day he doesn't need to ditch his style, but he doesn't get serious and knuckle down enough.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649
    kle4 said:

    BBC World News page is showing a photo of a downed plane but no caption explaining what, where, when or who. And there's no explanation in the connected story either (or none that I can find). The use of unexplained mood pics like this is the epitome of irresponsible journalism.

    I had been thinking the same thing and assumed I must have missed it somehow.
    If they had missed it somehow, it wouldn't have been shot down.
  • Anyway, it's lovely to see all those types who have been ranting on about appeasers, enablers & scum and applying those terms to countries, institutions and individuals (including some folk on PB) also calling for unity and being here for bringing together PBers across the political spectrum.

    Fair brings a lump to the throat.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165
    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
    It’s the one thing Trump was right about.

    Of course, you can argue that - regardless - it is still very much in the USA’s interests to underpin European security. The USA profits from the global capitalist system and therefore needs to underpin it.

    It is harder to make that argument from a UK perspective, since we (you) have spent much of the past 20 years de-industrialising and selling the country to foreigners.
  • kle4 said:

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    Begins to make up for the many times he has been missing in action (or inaction).
    Johnson has been on form today. I'm am not one of his supporters to say the least, but he has at least ditched the smirk and the jokes and the faux hard hat bollx and done a couple of decent speeches and performances.

    That's part of what is infuriating about him. He is capable of getting serious, and day to day he doesn't need to ditch his style, but he doesn't get serious and knuckle down enough.
    Johnson strikes me as arrogant (breaking covid laws he was sort of forced to impose) but never got that he was lazy bit - I am not sure you get to be PM ,London major being lazy .He has wrote a few books , being the editor of a commercial magazine and writes newspaper columns . Its a whole lot more than I do and I dont think I am lazy. His management style is laissez faire and delegating of course but I personally like my boss to be that as opposed to a micro managing perfection obsessed robot
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,429

    BBC World News page is showing a photo of a downed plane but no caption explaining what, where, when or who. And there's no explanation in the connected story either (or none that I can find). The use of unexplained mood pics like this is the epitome of irresponsible journalism.

    Found this using Google Image search

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-orders-military-operations-ukraine-demands-kyiv-forces-surrender-2022-02-24/

    "Rescuers work at the crash site of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' Antonov aircraft, which, according to the State Emergency Service, was shot down in Kyiv region, Ukraine, in this handout picture released February 24, 2022. Press service of the Ukrainian State Emergency Service/Handout via REUTERS"

    It's in the gallery of photos down the page
  • Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
    Sweden and Finland are well armed and coordinate with NATO to the point of being associate partners. Given some of the contributions (or lack of them) from some actual NATO members.....
    Difficult to see how Putin has not now forced Finland to join NATO now.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
    Sweden and Finland are well armed and coordinate with NATO to the point of being associate partners. Given some of the contributions (or lack of them) from some actual NATO members.....
    The days of free rides and freeloading are definitely over. I also suspect the days of CND are finally over. Brits will NEVER vote for a unilateral disarmer, not now, and we were already reluctant. This does present quite the problem for Sturgeon
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,429

    Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
    Sweden and Finland are well armed and coordinate with NATO to the point of being associate partners. Given some of the contributions (or lack of them) from some actual NATO members.....
    Difficult to see how Putin has not now forced Finland to join NATO now.
    In both cases, the de-facto membership they have now is pretty much all they need.
  • Leon said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Particularly as they are some of the wealthiest countries in the world, per capita. Enough

    After this horror show is done, these countries need to start ponying up. Enough of this fake "neutrality". You want NATO defence, you pay your share

    On that question, Trump was completely right, and Ukraine has shown that it is time to draw a line
    Sweden's great contribution to peace is, of course, dishing out lottery prizes linked indissolubly to the armaments business. Was very disappointed when Dylan accepted his.
  • boulay said:

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.
    10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.
    10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.
    Are there some animals at Kyiv zoo that need airlifting?
  • BBC World News page is showing a photo of a downed plane but no caption explaining what, where, when or who. And there's no explanation in the connected story either (or none that I can find). The use of unexplained mood pics like this is the epitome of irresponsible journalism.

    Found this using Google Image search

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-orders-military-operations-ukraine-demands-kyiv-forces-surrender-2022-02-24/

    "Rescuers work at the crash site of the Ukrainian Armed Forces' Antonov aircraft, which, according to the State Emergency Service, was shot down in Kyiv region, Ukraine, in this handout picture released February 24, 2022. Press service of the Ukrainian State Emergency Service/Handout via REUTERS"

    It's in the gallery of photos down the page
    Thanks.
  • This thread has just been shot down!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,649

    boulay said:

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.
    10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.
    10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.
    Are there some animals at Kyiv zoo that need airlifting?
    I hear she has a thing for monkeys. After all, she's married to one.
  • WASHINGTON — The Pentagon said on Thursday that it was sending an additional 7,000 troops to Europe, after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine launched the biggest land war in Europe since World War II.

    Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III ordered the deployment of an armored brigade combat team to Germany to reassure NATO allies, the Pentagon said in a statement.

    NY Times blog
  • ydoethur said:

    boulay said:

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    I doubt Boris has ever - literally ever - pulled a shift this long before.
    10pm tonight. Sorry, Carrie, not tonight. I’ve got a headache.
    10.05 trashed sofa and broken crockery.
    Are there some animals at Kyiv zoo that need airlifting?
    I hear she has a thing for monkeys. After all, she's married to one.
    A silver back gorilla (©fanbois) if you don't mind.
  • On a completely different issue the areas with the lowest current covid rates in England are:

    Pendle
    Oldham
    Burnley
    Blackburn
    Bolton
    Hyndburn
    Rochdale

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map/cases

    The Lancashire mill towns which led the Delta wave.

    It looks like they have few left to infect.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,784

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    The NLAWs we sent to Ukraine are Swedish.
  • dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

    Quote Tweet
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    · 6h
    Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

    A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

    These are dark days for Europe.
    1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

    Farage needs calling out for what he is.
    It would be pretty handy if it wasn't the usual suspects doing it.
    Well I have no voice or standing compared to Gauke but I am certainly not one of the usual suspects and I would agree that Farage is behaving like a fuckwit and what he is doing - or rather saying - is close to treasonous. You don't give succour to the enemy in a time of war and for better or worse that is where we are now.
This discussion has been closed.