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Punters think the Ukraine invasion will help Johnson’s survival chances – politicalbetting.com

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  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762

    Russian oligarchs are already emailing UK journos demanding they withdraw references to criminality/Putin links. Boris Johnson should change UK's insane libel law.

    https://twitter.com/TomRtweets/status/1496912044595228672

    If any court finds the journalists guilty I will be very disappointed. I would hope that exemplary costs would be awarded against the oligarchs.
  • Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK.
    erm..
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,481
    edited February 2022

    Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    It's not really getting any better with Biden and the questions.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Biden

    Swift is an option but one Europe does not want to take

    Name and shame
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437

    Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

    I'm a little behind but yes, he's actually doing better at answering than reading.
  • malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    Sigh. I really wish America had a more inspiring or even sentient POTUS than Biden, right now.

    Putin has chosen his moment well, in terms of weak western leadership

    I thought he spoke quite powerfully.
    Yes me too and god forbid it had been Trump in his place.
    No idea why @leon thinks Biden is being weak here.

    Well other than the fact that Biden hasn't turned Moscow into glassware I guess.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762

    Leon said:

    Why is literally NO ONE talking about a pre-emptive First Strike on Russia?

    Forget this SWIFT nonsense, just take em out. Nuke the Whole Show. Led by the UK, with France and the USA behind us, just toast the entire country. Turn it into weird crystallised rock, with tiny bits of algae as the only life remaining.

    Sorted

    Is the drinks cabinet open early, Leon ?
    I think he may be on the absinthe tonight.
  • Biden making it clear EU don't want Russia banned from SWIFT.

    Meaning Germany.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    Leon said:

    Why is literally NO ONE talking about a pre-emptive First Strike on Russia?

    Forget this SWIFT nonsense, just take em out. Nuke the Whole Show. Led by the UK, with France and the USA behind us, just toast the entire country. Turn it into weird crystallised rock, with tiny bits of algae as the only life remaining.

    Sorted

    And you describe my contribution as embarrassing.....
  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Why is literally NO ONE talking about a pre-emptive First Strike on Russia?

    Forget this SWIFT nonsense, just take em out. Nuke the Whole Show. Led by the UK, with France and the USA behind us, just toast the entire country. Turn it into weird crystallised rock, with tiny bits of algae as the only life remaining.

    Sorted

    Is the drinks cabinet open early, Leon ?
    Stony cold sober.
    That's scarier.
    FFS I'm joking!

    Black humour is all that is left

    That said, I have always been intrigued by the concept of First Strike, and it is an integral part of the philosophy of strategic nuclear deterrence. You need to have nukes that will SURVIVE a first strike, hence our submarines

    Clearly I do not think Russia's actions - however medieval and repulsive - merit us turning 140m mostly innocent Russians into radiated vapour
    And many millions of Britons. You can't win a nuclear war. It's called mutually assured destruction for a reason.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,987

    Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

    It's not really getting any better with Biden and the questions.

    Well I'm none the wiser from the descriptions.
  • Biden

    Swift is an option but one Europe does not want to take

    Name and shame
    Apparently France and Italy
  • The way the US do these press conferences are a shit show. Like little children screaming.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Sigh. I really wish America had a more inspiring or even sentient POTUS than Biden, right now.

    Putin has chosen his moment well, in terms of weak western leadership

    What difference would it have made, seriously? We've danced a dance the last few weeks but the outcome has been inevitable.

    We can and no doubt will debate when mistakes were made and what else we could and should have done. None of that matters now.

    We have to stop the conflict going beyond Ukraine and ensuring in economic terms Russia pays a heavy price and if we have to pay a price too, so be it.
    I reckon the mere presence of a powerful, convincing, articulate president in the White House might have been enough to deter Putin

    Instead Putin saw Sleepy Joe Biden. And then Putin looked at Berlin and saw "Olaf Schulz". Then Putin quietly sniggered at Macron and indulged his French preening, before making him look like a schoolboy. And then Putin eyed up 10 Downing Street, and I fear that probably didn't scare the Russian leader too much, either.

    Et voila
  • Biden making it clear EU don't want Russia banned from SWIFT.

    Meaning Germany.
    Actually it is France and Italy who would face a €30 billion loss
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231

    Biden

    Swift is an option but one Europe does not want to take

    Name and shame
    Apparently France and Italy
    It would be a real problem for French banks.

    German banks, on the other hand, would probably benefit from not being to lose more money in Russia.
  • kle4 said:

    Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

    It's not really getting any better with Biden and the questions.

    Well I'm none the wiser from the descriptions.
    I thought he was fine. He slurs his speech sometimes and struggles to hear some of the questions but they all shout at once and most of them sound like they are still wearing masks.

    Anyone who thinks Biden is a problem needs to spend ten minutes thinking what a Trump press conference would have been like in these circumstances. Christ. Trump would be handing out the Freedom Medal to his mate Vlad.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Why is literally NO ONE talking about a pre-emptive First Strike on Russia?

    Forget this SWIFT nonsense, just take em out. Nuke the Whole Show. Led by the UK, with France and the USA behind us, just toast the entire country. Turn it into weird crystallised rock, with tiny bits of algae as the only life remaining.

    Sorted

    And you describe my contribution as embarrassing.....
    Mine was a joke. You literally did not know anything about the great, genocidal Famine in the Soviet Union in the 1930s. When millions died and cannibalism was rife, almost all of it occurring in the Ukraine

    Shameful. Shameful
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,907
    Germany and the USA have most to lose if SWIFT was suspended . The UK would see a small impact and so this sanction is easier for them to push .

  • nico679 said:

    Germany and the USA have most to lose if SWIFT was suspended . The UK would see a small impact and so this sanction is easier for them to push .

    Actually it is France and Italy, not Germany or the US
  • Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

    I'm a little behind but yes, he's actually doing better at answering than reading.
    Yes, I too thought that was odd.

    He seemed to be having trouble with the autocue, peering as if it wasn't clear. His responses to questions were very good however, and he was totally fluent.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,045
    "it's all germany's fault"

    I'm sure in some other corner of the Internet there are people explaining how it is all Israel's fault.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/24/met-police-officer-rape-case-dropped

    A Metropolitan police officer has been cleared of rape after prosecutors dropped the case against him.

    PC Adam Zaman, 28, of Romford, east London, was accused of raping a woman at the Andaz Hotel in Liverpool Street, central London in October last year.

    The court heard that the complainant had been informed of her right to review and Hunter explained that the CPS’s decision had been made at the “highest levels”.


    Bit of a change from Starmer’s time in charge.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165

    kle4 said:

    Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

    It's not really getting any better with Biden and the questions.

    Well I'm none the wiser from the descriptions.
    I thought he was fine. He slurs his speech sometimes and struggles to hear some of the questions but they all shout at once and most of them sound like they are still wearing masks.

    Anyone who thinks Biden is a problem needs to spend ten minutes thinking what a Trump press conference would have been like in these circumstances. Christ. Trump would be handing out the Freedom Medal to his mate Vlad.
    Or a Johnson conference.

    Biden listens to the questions and provides a straight answer, maybe a bit stuttered, but totally comprehensible.

    Boris just waffles abstractly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290

    kle4 said:

    Biden reads the autocue like somebody who has no idea what they are saying or what it means.

    It is...worrying.
    It is poor. But as long as those in charge of him know what they are doing, we'll be OK. He's allowing them to write the right words.
    He's answering now (live) a series of tricky press questions off the cuff in a perfectly fine manner.

    It's not really getting any better with Biden and the questions.

    Well I'm none the wiser from the descriptions.
    I thought he was fine. He slurs his speech sometimes and struggles to hear some of the questions but they all shout at once and most of them sound like they are still wearing masks.

    Anyone who thinks Biden is a problem needs to spend ten minutes thinking what a Trump press conference would have been like in these circumstances. Christ. Trump would be handing out the Freedom Medal to his mate Vlad.
    Trump being the alternative (frightening as it is) does not, I am afraid, make Biden somehow better than he is. He'd doddery and frail. As Francis says, he reads his autocue very strangely, like someone who doesn't quite understand the language but knows the sounds. Kinda
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,647
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Sigh. I really wish America had a more inspiring or even sentient POTUS than Biden, right now.

    Putin has chosen his moment well, in terms of weak western leadership

    What difference would it have made, seriously? We've danced a dance the last few weeks but the outcome has been inevitable.

    We can and no doubt will debate when mistakes were made and what else we could and should have done. None of that matters now.

    We have to stop the conflict going beyond Ukraine and ensuring in economic terms Russia pays a heavy price and if we have to pay a price too, so be it.
    I reckon the mere presence of a powerful, convincing, articulate president in the White House might have been enough to deter Putin

    Instead Putin saw Sleepy Joe Biden. And then Putin looked at Berlin and saw "Olaf Schulz". Then Putin quietly sniggered at Macron and indulged his French preening, before making him look like a schoolboy. And then Putin eyed up 10 Downing Street, and I fear that probably didn't scare the Russian leader too much, either.

    Et voila
    In 2014, you had Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy and Cameron and that didn't put off Putin annexing the Crimea.

    Were they all weak as well?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796

    Roger said:

    Seems Putin is standing alone. Slightly embarrassing to have to watch Johnson chuntering in front of his Union Jack. He's probably less popular with the UK population than Putin is with his. As for the Trump fans....God knows what they make of their idol's choices. It's a complicated world. I'm putting my faith in the EU. They tend to get most things right and I believe in their instincts

    Sadly it is the EU who are in crisis tonight as they pay the price for selling their energy economy to Russia with Germany absolutely in hock, and France and Italy unable to agree to US and UK demands to throw Russia out of swift as it would cost then €30 billion or more

    You need to take off your blinkers
    What was wrong with the EU buying energy from Russia?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,500
    If that's true about the airport being back under Ukrainian control it's a big plus for the Ukrainian military - the troops that took it by helicopter will have been towards the elite end of things.

    Interesting that there were tales of transport planes heading in too - perhaps a large deployment through the airport had been planned.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Sigh. I really wish America had a more inspiring or even sentient POTUS than Biden, right now.

    Putin has chosen his moment well, in terms of weak western leadership

    What difference would it have made, seriously? We've danced a dance the last few weeks but the outcome has been inevitable.

    We can and no doubt will debate when mistakes were made and what else we could and should have done. None of that matters now.

    We have to stop the conflict going beyond Ukraine and ensuring in economic terms Russia pays a heavy price and if we have to pay a price too, so be it.
    I reckon the mere presence of a powerful, convincing, articulate president in the White House might have been enough to deter Putin

    Instead Putin saw Sleepy Joe Biden. And then Putin looked at Berlin and saw "Olaf Schulz". Then Putin quietly sniggered at Macron and indulged his French preening, before making him look like a schoolboy. And then Putin eyed up 10 Downing Street, and I fear that probably didn't scare the Russian leader too much, either.

    Et voila
    In 2014, you had Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy and Cameron and that didn't put off Putin annexing the Crimea.

    Were they all weak as well?
    For all their faults, they were better than the shower we have now.

    What we need is Reagan, Thatcher, Mitterand and Kohl

    *sigh*
  • Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Seems Putin is standing alone. Slightly embarrassing to have to watch Johnson chuntering in front of his Union Jack. He's probably less popular with the UK population than Putin is with his. As for the Trump fans....God knows what they make of their idol's choices. It's a complicated world. I'm putting my faith in the EU. They tend to get most things right and I believe in their instincts

    Sadly it is the EU who are in crisis tonight as they pay the price for selling their energy economy to Russia with Germany absolutely in hock, and France and Italy unable to agree to US and UK demands to throw Russia out of swift as it would cost then €30 billion or more

    You need to take off your blinkers
    What was wrong with the EU buying energy from Russia?
    If you do not know the answer to that then I am astonished
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,370

    The way the US do these press conferences are a shit show. Like little children screaming.

    If you watch the same press conferences from 30 or 40 years ago they're far more civilised affairs, without the shouting, etc.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,594
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    Too stupid to fail?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    kamski said:

    "it's all germany's fault"

    I'm sure in some other corner of the Internet there are people explaining how it is all Israel's fault.

    Yes.
    Especially since Germany is the only country which has taken action above and beyond what was widely predicted.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231
    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Sigh. I really wish America had a more inspiring or even sentient POTUS than Biden, right now.

    Putin has chosen his moment well, in terms of weak western leadership

    What difference would it have made, seriously? We've danced a dance the last few weeks but the outcome has been inevitable.

    We can and no doubt will debate when mistakes were made and what else we could and should have done. None of that matters now.

    We have to stop the conflict going beyond Ukraine and ensuring in economic terms Russia pays a heavy price and if we have to pay a price too, so be it.
    I reckon the mere presence of a powerful, convincing, articulate president in the White House might have been enough to deter Putin

    Instead Putin saw Sleepy Joe Biden. And then Putin looked at Berlin and saw "Olaf Schulz". Then Putin quietly sniggered at Macron and indulged his French preening, before making him look like a schoolboy. And then Putin eyed up 10 Downing Street, and I fear that probably didn't scare the Russian leader too much, either.

    Et voila
    In 2014, you had Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy and Cameron and that didn't put off Putin annexing the Crimea.

    Were they all weak as well?
    Ah hem.

    Hollande was French President. Sarkozy departed in 2012.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    Too stupid to fail?
    I hope and trust that the US are putting behind the scenes pressure on Germany to support their allies. Maybe we should stop buying German cars.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,370
    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,907

    nico679 said:

    Germany and the USA have most to lose if SWIFT was suspended . The UK would see a small impact and so this sanction is easier for them to push .

    Actually it is France and Italy, not Germany or the US
    Regardless it’s easy to push for a sanction that won’t impact you too much . Would the UK push for this if it was going to lose tens of billions .

    Personally I think the sanctions should be brutal and Europe needs to take the pain.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    Leon said:

    Why is literally NO ONE talking about a pre-emptive First Strike on Russia?

    Forget this SWIFT nonsense, just take em out. Nuke the Whole Show. Led by the UK, with France and the USA behind us, just toast the entire country. Turn it into weird crystallised rock, with tiny bits of algae as the only life remaining.

    Sorted

    Before the first strike, you might want to return to Penarth or better still Sri Lanka in the event of a retaliatory strike.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,455
    Omnium said:

    If that's true about the airport being back under Ukrainian control it's a big plus for the Ukrainian military - the troops that took it by helicopter will have been towards the elite end of things.

    Interesting that there were tales of transport planes heading in too - perhaps a large deployment through the airport had been planned.

    If the Russians had been (or are) able to capture the government in Kiev, it would have made it much harder for Ukraine to fight, depending on what their continuity of government plan is like.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,847
    edited February 2022
    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    stodge said:

    Leon said:

    Sigh. I really wish America had a more inspiring or even sentient POTUS than Biden, right now.

    Putin has chosen his moment well, in terms of weak western leadership

    What difference would it have made, seriously? We've danced a dance the last few weeks but the outcome has been inevitable.

    We can and no doubt will debate when mistakes were made and what else we could and should have done. None of that matters now.

    We have to stop the conflict going beyond Ukraine and ensuring in economic terms Russia pays a heavy price and if we have to pay a price too, so be it.
    I reckon the mere presence of a powerful, convincing, articulate president in the White House might have been enough to deter Putin

    Instead Putin saw Sleepy Joe Biden. And then Putin looked at Berlin and saw "Olaf Schulz". Then Putin quietly sniggered at Macron and indulged his French preening, before making him look like a schoolboy. And then Putin eyed up 10 Downing Street, and I fear that probably didn't scare the Russian leader too much, either.

    Et voila
    In 2014, you had Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy and Cameron and that didn't put off Putin annexing the Crimea.

    Were they all weak as well?
    For all their faults, they were better than the shower we have now.

    What we need is Reagan, Thatcher, Mitterand and Kohl

    *sigh*
    Reagan was arguably in worse mental condition for a lot of his time than Biden is now, though. Thatcher, Mitterand and Kohl were in better shape.

    None of them were Churchill or Roosevelt, going even further back.
  • dixiedean said:

    kamski said:

    "it's all germany's fault"

    I'm sure in some other corner of the Internet there are people explaining how it is all Israel's fault.

    Yes.
    Especially since Germany is the only country which has taken action above and beyond what was widely predicted.
    Have they reversed their ban on weapons made in Germany being supplied to Ukraine?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    A spokeswoman for SWIFT, Frau Bonk, responds to Big G “oh hang on a minute, there’s as much dirty Russian money in the Tory party than in us.”
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231

    Biden making it clear EU don't want Russia banned from SWIFT.

    Meaning Germany.
    Actually it is France and Italy who would face a €30 billion loss
    UniCredit has plenty of Ukrainian exposure, so they probably get hammered regardless.

    (FWIW, I doubt there's EUR30bn of exposure in French and Italian banking systems. I reckon the real number is probably EUR8-12bn)
  • nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Germany and the USA have most to lose if SWIFT was suspended . The UK would see a small impact and so this sanction is easier for them to push .

    Actually it is France and Italy, not Germany or the US
    Regardless it’s easy to push for a sanction that won’t impact you too much . Would the UK push for this if it was going to lose tens of billions .

    Personally I think the sanctions should be brutal and Europe needs to take the pain.
    Everyone is going to lose billions and it seems that as well as the UK and US pushing this it is labour policy as well
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Biden

    Swift is an option but one Europe does not want to take

    Name and shame
    Apparently France and Italy
    Playing to stereotype.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,429

    Leon said:

    Why is literally NO ONE talking about a pre-emptive First Strike on Russia?

    Forget this SWIFT nonsense, just take em out. Nuke the Whole Show. Led by the UK, with France and the USA behind us, just toast the entire country. Turn it into weird crystallised rock, with tiny bits of algae as the only life remaining.

    Sorted

    Is the drinks cabinet open early, Leon ?

    "Stilgar,"Paul said, "you urgently need a sense of balance which can come only from an understanding of long-term effects. What little information we have about the old times, the pittance of data which the Butlerians left us, Korba has brought it for you. Start with the Genghis Khan."
    Ghengis... Khan? Was he of the Sardaukar, m'Lord?"
    "Oh, long before that. He killed... perhaps four million."
    He must've had formidable weaponry to kill that many, Sire. Lasbeams, perhaps, or..."
    "He didn't kill them himself, Stil. He killed the way I kill, by sending out his legions. There's another emperor I want you to note in passing - a Hitler. He killed more than six million. Pretty good for those days.'
    "Killed... by his legions?" Stilgar asked.
    "Yes"
    "Not very impressive statistics, m'Lord."
    "Very good Stil." Paul glanced at the reels in Korba's hands. Korba stood with them as though he wished he could drop them and flee. "Statistics: at a conservative estimate, I've killed sixty-one billion, sterlized ninety planets, completely demoralized five hundred others. I've wiped out the followers of forty religions which had existed since-"
    "Unbelievers!" Korba protested. "Unbelievers all!"
    "No," Paul said. "Believers."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    edited February 2022

    dixiedean said:

    kamski said:

    "it's all germany's fault"

    I'm sure in some other corner of the Internet there are people explaining how it is all Israel's fault.

    Yes.
    Especially since Germany is the only country which has taken action above and beyond what was widely predicted.
    Have they reversed their ban on weapons made in Germany being supplied to Ukraine?
    No. But they have postponed a pipeline. Has the UK done anything so greatly against its own interests? Supplying weapons in return for payment isn't a sacrifice.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,762
    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
  • Biden

    Swift is an option but one Europe does not want to take

    Name and shame
    Apparently France and Italy
    Playing to stereotype.
    Not sure what you mean unless you are disputing that France and Italy are the ones objecting to the swift issue

    Indeed @rcs1000 has also confirmed France would suffer (see 7.08pm)
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,639
    Trump and his sneaking regarders would have Tomahawks lighting up Kiev as we speak.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Scholz blocking Boris's push for kicking Russia out of SWIFT. Fuck Scholz and his weak wavering.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    A spokeswoman for SWIFT, Frau Bonk, responds to Big G “oh hang on a minute, there’s as much dirty Russian money in the Tory party than in us.”
    Maybe a wee bit cynical and deflecting from what is a serious issue within the EU
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,310
    I dont want to disappoint anyone but whilst the Ukrainians are putting up resistance the Russian have only committed a fraction of their first echelon forces so there is more to come. The likes of the possibly failed smash and grab on the Hostomel airfield near Kiev are prelims.

    It is imperative that whatever airpower the ukraine has stays intact overnight as the Russians are looking for it. Just as important if they can somehow do it is disrupt russian airpower at source, as the Russian advantages there are bigger than any other particular capability between the forces.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    rcs1000 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kamski said:

    "it's all germany's fault"

    I'm sure in some other corner of the Internet there are people explaining how it is all Israel's fault.

    Yes.
    Especially since Germany is the only country which has taken action above and beyond what was widely predicted.
    Have they reversed their ban on weapons made in Germany being supplied to Ukraine?
    It's funny you should mention that, but no they haven't. And to me, that is utterly unconscionable.

    The Brits, the French and the Estonians have all shipped weapons to the Ukraine. But Germany has banned re-export to the Ukraine, which is utterly disgraceful.
    While directly selling to UAE and Saudi. Disgusting.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Biden making it clear EU don't want Russia banned from SWIFT.

    Meaning Germany.
    Actually it is France and Italy who would face a €30 billion loss
    UniCredit has plenty of Ukrainian exposure, so they probably get hammered regardless.

    (FWIW, I doubt there's EUR30bn of exposure in French and Italian banking systems. I reckon the real number is probably EUR8-12bn)
    EUR 30 billion was the figure quoted on Sky news business this morning
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,370
    "David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

    Quote Tweet
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    · 6h
    Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

    A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

    These are dark days for Europe.
    1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231
    Yokes said:

    I dont want to disappoint anyone but whilst the Ukrainians are putting up resistance the Russian have only committed a fraction of their first echelon forces so there is more to come. The likes of the possibly failed smash and grab on the Hostomel airfield near Kiev are prelims.

    It is imperative that whatever airpower the ukraine has stays intact overnight as the Russians are looking for it. Just as important if they can somehow do it is disrupt russian airpower at source, as the Russian advantages there are bigger than any other particular capability between the forces.

    Presumably the Ukrainians could do with more SAMs to help them deal with the air threat - particularly helicopters.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,231

    rcs1000 said:

    Biden making it clear EU don't want Russia banned from SWIFT.

    Meaning Germany.
    Actually it is France and Italy who would face a €30 billion loss
    UniCredit has plenty of Ukrainian exposure, so they probably get hammered regardless.

    (FWIW, I doubt there's EUR30bn of exposure in French and Italian banking systems. I reckon the real number is probably EUR8-12bn)
    EUR 30 billion was the figure quoted on Sky news business this morning
    That will probably be an 'analyst estimate'.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,273
    Andy_JS said:

    "David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

    Quote Tweet
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    · 6h
    Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

    A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

    These are dark days for Europe.
    1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

    Farage needs calling out for what he is.
    It would be pretty handy if it wasn't the usual suspects doing it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,028
    edited February 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    "David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

    Quote Tweet
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    · 6h
    Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

    A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

    These are dark days for Europe.
    1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

    Farage and Salmond, Putin apologists

  • Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    1h
    At last we’re getting closer to scale of sanctions & legislation needed. More still to be done but this is an important and significant step in isolating the Kremlin & signalling solidarity with Ukraine #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    ===

    Although time to drop her twitter head photo of her standing with a load of StopTheWar Labour MPs me thinks.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

    Quote Tweet
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    · 6h
    Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

    A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

    These are dark days for Europe.
    1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

    It's all the fault of the EUSSR
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    I was reading up on it yesterday, the argument is it might be bigged up how much it hurts Putin vs the pain to ourselves. Putin has already war gamed we could do it and offset, not entirely obviously, by setting up an alternative. Whilst politicians are now desperate to look tough to their own domestic audiences.

    The bottom line is, it was right for HoC to show the solidarity today, but it’s not going to last towards the sanction package as details emerge.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Returning to betting briefly, Trump must be lay now surely?

    You need to watch more Fox news. Tucker Carlson is Putin's best propagandist.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Seen on social media:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/t0epur/comment/hya0au3/

    "Seriously this whole thing has pushed my view of the UK back up, basically all the intelligence has from them and they are open about it, they sent arms and the provided training on how to use them, were very vocal about what would happen if they invaded and are now pushing this. Just like with Covid vaccines the UK is proving that, maybe for something's, leaving the EU was a good thing, they have their voice back and they are not afraid to use it."
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Sounds like the Irish of course, who do exactly this, even when the Nazis rampage across Europe.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Such displays of public protest are seriously brave in Putin’s Russia.

    Elena Kovalskaya, the director of Moscow’s Vsevolod Meyerhold State Theater and Cultural Center, has announced her resignation in protest against the invasion of Ukraine. “It’s impossible to work for a murderer and collect a salary from him,” she writes.
    https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1496850934298726405

    Of course, Vsevolod Meyerhold himself was arrested, tortured and executed the next day, 2 February 1940.

    I agree that is brave.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,912
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Global: MilitaryInfo
    @Global_Mil_Info
    45s
    Per an adviser to the Ukrainian Presidential Office, Hostomel airfield is back under Ukrianian control.
    https://twitter.com/Global_Mil_Info/status/1496921860939948036

    If true then that makes vastly more sense, a couple of hundred paratroopers can't take an entire airport a few miles from the capital of the country.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    Nigelb said:

    Such displays of public protest are seriously brave in Putin’s Russia.

    Elena Kovalskaya, the director of Moscow’s Vsevolod Meyerhold State Theater and Cultural Center, has announced her resignation in protest against the invasion of Ukraine. “It’s impossible to work for a murderer and collect a salary from him,” she writes.
    https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1496850934298726405

    That is tremendously courageous. These people often end up in jail for many years. Brave brave woman
  • Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.
  • Alistair said:

    Returning to betting briefly, Trump must be lay now surely?

    You need to watch more Fox news. Tucker Carlson is Putin's best propagandist.
    Traitors.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?
  • Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?

    davos
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    Taz said:
    It's you, you, you spreading it, just sayin'
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379
    edited February 2022

    Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    Begins to make up for the many times he has been missing in action (or inaction).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202


    Caroline Lucas
    @CarolineLucas
    ·
    1h
    At last we’re getting closer to scale of sanctions & legislation needed. More still to be done but this is an important and significant step in isolating the Kremlin & signalling solidarity with Ukraine #StandWithUkraine

    https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas

    ===

    Although time to drop her twitter head photo of her standing with a load of StopTheWar Labour MPs me thinks.

    This new Carol Lucas, the Fern Lady, must be scaring Moscow shitless.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    I was reading up on it yesterday, the argument is it might be bigged up how much it hurts Putin vs the pain to ourselves. Putin has already war gamed we could do it and offset, not entirely obviously, by setting up an alternative. Whilst politicians are now desperate to look tough to their own domestic audiences.

    The bottom line is, it was right for HoC to show the solidarity today, but it’s not going to last towards the sanction package as details emerge.
    Western economies are large, highly diverse and flexible. Russia's is not. No banking flows and no gas exports completely screws them more than us. Putin’s calculation isn't that he could withstand hard sanctions. It is that the West wouldn't push them through and sustain them.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Returning to betting briefly, Trump must be lay now surely?

    You need to watch more Fox news. Tucker Carlson is Putin's best propagandist.
    Traitors.
    If we are enumerating Traitors then Tulsi Gabbard (long a favourite of PB 'shrewd assessors of ability') has predictably disgraced herself.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,379

    Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?

    davos
    Which means?
  • Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    The reality is that BNP, Commerzbank and Deutsche Bank have billions of dollars of exposure to Russia. If Russian oil companies cannot make their interest payments, that's a massive problem for those banks. (And, for the record, there are a couple of US banks who are also going to be shitting themselves, but it's a much smaller problem, proportionally, in the US.)

    Now, BNP is highly profitable and well capitalised. It would be painful, but not fatal. But the German banks are neither particularly profitable, nor particularly well capitalized.
    I was reading up on it yesterday, the argument is it might be bigged up how much it hurts Putin vs the pain to ourselves. Putin has already war gamed we could do it and offset, not entirely obviously, by setting up an alternative. Whilst politicians are now desperate to look tough to their own domestic audiences.

    The bottom line is, it was right for HoC to show the solidarity today, but it’s not going to last towards the sanction package as details emerge.
    Western economies are large, highly diverse and flexible. Russia's is not. No banking flows and no gas exports completely screws them more than us. Putin’s calculation isn't that he could withstand hard sanctions. It is that the West wouldn't push them through and sustain them.
    RU economy, despite its massive landmass, is no bigger than Italy's. Desperately reliant on a few core materials and minings/oil/gas production.

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "How the SNP became the most anti-Putin party in the UK
    Nicola Sturgeon and her nationalists have turned their backs on Alex Salmond’s pro-Russian antics by standing steadfastly with Ukraine.
    By Chris Deerin"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2022/02/how-the-snp-became-the-most-anti-putin-party-in-the-uk

    The SNP are the anti Salmond party. Putin has just been caught in the crossfire.
    It's also completely fucking risible

    The SNP want to unilaterally disarm, get rid of the nukes, meaning Putin can just send his navy from Murmansk and take over indy Scotland any time he likes

    That is the logic of their position. Unless, of course, the SNP still intend to sort of rely on Trident, England and the Americans to defend them, the same way they still sort of want to use the UK pound after indy, but can't quite say it.

    What a busload of wankers
    Works for the Irish.
    It’s not obvious to me why we let various European states free ride on the NATO security architecture.

    Ireland.
    Austria.
    Switzerland.
    Sweden.

    Sweden has a large weapons industry FFS.

    Finland I can kind-of understand, but they appear to be the only ones giving some serious thought to the issue right now.
    Completely agree! Neutrality in the face of evil is evil.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,429

    Nigelb said:

    Such displays of public protest are seriously brave in Putin’s Russia.

    Elena Kovalskaya, the director of Moscow’s Vsevolod Meyerhold State Theater and Cultural Center, has announced her resignation in protest against the invasion of Ukraine. “It’s impossible to work for a murderer and collect a salary from him,” she writes.
    https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1496850934298726405

    We should offer asylum to regime dissidents like this.
    The director of a theatre named after a person murdered by the Russian State flips the bird at the Russian State?

    Damn....
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165

    Andy_JS said:

    "David Gauke
    @DavidGauke
    How twisted must your world view be that your first response to an unprovoked invasion is to condemn those institutions which seek to offer peace & security to those trying to escape tyranny, rather than condemn the invading tyrant?

    Quote Tweet
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    · 6h
    Well, I was wrong. Putin has gone much further than I thought he would.

    A consequence of EU and NATO expansion, which came to a head in 2014. It made no sense to poke the Russian bear with a stick.

    These are dark days for Europe.
    1:31 PM · Feb 24, 2022"

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1496840096577998849

    Farage and Salmond, Putin apologists
    Yep. Shocking how Farage would sell this country's fundamental values down the river. He claims to be wrapped in the flag, to be the ultimate english nationalist. He's a fake. A 5th columnist. A traitor to this country's core beliefs.

    Thatcher, his great hero, would have known what he was.
    Traitor is a strong word.

    Nevertheless, it would be interesting to understand his finances, his relations to Trump, and why he was sniffing about Julian Assange.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,290
    My God

    Apocalyptic bombardment around Kharkov, seen from a distance, which somehow makes it scarier

    "Heavy artillery shelling hit Kharkiv tonight. Ukraine."

    https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1496933579842109441?s=20&t=rSTOC2xGkXJEd0LNpLYdig

    Could be fake or erroneous. But if that really is bombs and shells falling on a city.....

    EDIT: Some claim it is from last night
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,165

    Regarding Swift: How is it controlled? Who decides to eject a country?

    davos
    That scary Dalek fellah?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,202

    Andy_JS said:

    "zerohedge
    @zerohedge

    German chancellor Olaf Scholz warned Boris Johnson that Germany would not support kicking Russia out of SWIFT, and neither would the EU: FT"

    https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1496876639308992512

    Confirms what I have been saying

    Germany has sold her soul to Russia
    A spokeswoman for SWIFT, Frau Bonk, responds to Big G “oh hang on a minute, there’s as much dirty Russian money in the Tory party than in us.”
    Maybe a wee bit cynical and deflecting from what is a serious issue within the EU
    Or maybe not.

    You have to concede this one Big G. Just as I have to admit we libdems need to lock Vince Cable in a wardrobe before he can do more damage to the Lib Dem poll surge. There’s a lesson to be learnt right across the piece, not just Tories knocking Germans. The UK government as well as western allies have been lazy and greedy for years, Putin has war gamed this and whatever boosterised sanction bombard doesn’t come as a blitzkrieg to him. The Russian government, Putin in particular, don't take sanctions bombardments seriously, and not because they dismiss the potential economic damage they can do, but because he puts Russian national security much more seriously than Russian economic welfare. The West will be outraged and there'll be all sorts of sanctions and stuff, as there were after the invasion of Crimea back in 2014. And the Salisbury outrage. Remember, just a couple of years after Salisbury the Tory party have taken two million pounds of dirty Russian money they refuse to give back. Worse than that they insult our intelligence now peddling the line they have never taken dirty money from Russia, China, McMafia oligarchs or anyone.
    And of course Putin sleeps soundly tonight because he knows the West will begin to forget and want to resume normal business with Russia. in a few years we'll back to where we were before. Just like last time. Just like the time before. the West have attention deficit disorder with regard to international politics.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551

    Biden

    Swift is an option but one Europe does not want to take

    Name and shame
    Apparently France and Italy
    Playing to stereotype.
    Not sure what you mean unless you are disputing that France and Italy are the ones objecting to the swift issue

    Indeed @rcs1000 has also confirmed France would suffer (see 7.08pm)
    I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to France and Italy.
  • Ben Riley-Smith
    @benrileysmith
    ·
    38s
    Second Cobr of the day happening now. PM to host a full Cabinet meeting afterwards too. So his day to last at least 4am - 9pm.

    Begins to make up for the many times he has been missing in action (or inaction).
    Johnson has been on form today. I'm am not one of his supporters to say the least, but he has at least ditched the smirk and the jokes and the faux hard hat bollx and done a couple of decent speeches and performances.

This discussion has been closed.