If Boris is charged, convicted, sentenced and sent down. Boris, his supporters and possibly HYUFD will say he can carry on. There is no place where they will draw a line. Someone else has to draw that line.
Nelson Mandela was jailed and came back to lead his country but obviously I am not making that direct comparison.
If Boris was arrested and jailed he would have to cease being Tory leader and PM at that point
What a bizarre comment
You become more ridiculous day by day
Actually quite a few leaders have done time then returned to lead
Lenin? Stalin maybe Vaclav Havel Gandhi Ho Chi Minh Aung Sun Sue Khi Nehru
If Boris is charged, convicted, sentenced and sent down. Boris, his supporters and possibly HYUFD will say he can carry on. There is no place where they will draw a line. Someone else has to draw that line.
Nelson Mandela was jailed and came back to lead his country but obviously I am not making that direct comparison.
If Boris was arrested and jailed he would have to cease being Tory leader and PM at that point
What a bizarre comment
You become more ridiculous day by day
Actually quite a few leaders have done time then returned to lead
Lenin? Stalin maybe Vaclav Havel Gandhi Ho Chi Minh Aung Sun Sue Khi Nehru
Oh, that's much more like it! With that post you are competing with HYUFD for the Unembarrassed Boris Apologist Award, also known as the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award for Most Comical & Absurd Defence
We are missing the best example from that list - Hitler.
Hitler was also jailed for treason and sentenced to five years in Landsberg Prison, he dictated Mein Kampf to fellow prisoners Emil Maurice and Rudolf Hess. On 20 December 1924, having served only nine months, Hitler was released.
I give no pass to Boris, but Rayner trying to excuse the civil servants involved is an utterly nonsense
Were you a civil servant in No 10 was it better for your career to attend the parties or to avoid them
Up to early December 2021 I suspect attending parties was a better career move as it meant you were in with the right people.
I do not have an issue with junior civil servants but those in management should resign in block
FDA leader is very critical - demands full publication eventually. Graun feed says
The FDA, the union representing senior civil servants, says the full Sue Gray report must be published eventually. In a statement, its general secretary, Dave Penman, said:
"[...] The general findings will make uncomfortable reading for all of those in leadership positions in No.10, whether political or official. While no one can question their commitment and hard work when they led the country’s response to the pandemic, they were not alone, as hundreds of thousands of key workers in the public and private sector made extraordinary sacrifices throughout this time. Whatever led to a culture where they lost a sense of perspective has to be addressed quickly, as the report recommends."
The Tories need some policy resets as well as getting shut of BoJo in order to stand a chance of winning next election. The Tory back benchers need to oust him now for their own careers. Have an interim PM and elect a new leader. If there is a poll recovery then October election to get fresh mandate. Not sure I want them to do it as I think they might get re-elected but good governance does demand that he goes ASAP.
On a lighter note, how desperate do you have to be to claim in an official government document, dishonestly, that one of the benefits of Brexit is 'to provide opportunities for the cruise industry to allow people to get married at sea'?
Was that some civil servant trying to troll us with the most ludicrous nonsense he could slip into the report?
Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea
I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.
It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.
I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.
I never cared much for the lockdown rules, in fact I thought them idiotic and harmful. I broke them at every possible opportunity. Because as a healthy man in his late thirties, the risk of going completely mental from the isolation far outweighed the risk of covid.
And I would not blame a single other person for doing the same. I would not blame a couple for throwing a party in their own home. I would not blame a teenager for setting up a soundsystem and going raving in the forest of dean. I would not blame a middle aged son or daughter for going to spend time with an elderly relative. Etc. So many things are more important than "covid". As most of us, two years later, have now seen.
But the fact is, it was Boris who made those stupid, pointless, horrific rules that turned our country into an orwellian police state where neighbours tittle tattled on each other and joy was banned in a way not seen since Oliver Cromwell.
And Boris broke those rules. For that hypocrisy, I damn him.
If anyone else attended a party, or hosted one, I would not give a flying fig. But when the architects of lockdown, and all the horrors that came with it, are shown to have repeatedly and egregiously broken their own rules, I hope someone throws the book at them.
For ages I’ve said Starmer wasn’t up to it. And it’s still hard to get over some of his policy failures in the last few years. But oh my. That was stirring, powerful and persuasive. And I suspect the silent majority on the government benches know it.
Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea
I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.
It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.
I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.
Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.
Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
If Boris is charged, convicted, sentenced and sent down. Boris, his supporters and possibly HYUFD will say he can carry on. There is no place where they will draw a line. Someone else has to draw that line.
Nelson Mandela was jailed and came back to lead his country but obviously I am not making that direct comparison.
If Boris was arrested and jailed he would have to cease being Tory leader and PM at that point
What a bizarre comment
You become more ridiculous day by day
Actually quite a few leaders have done time then returned to lead
Lenin? Stalin maybe Vaclav Havel Gandhi Ho Chi Minh Aung Sun Sue Khi Nehru
Oh, that's much more like it! With that post you are competing with HYUFD for the Unembarrassed Boris Apologist Award, also known as the Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award for Most Comical & Absurd Defence
There is more an issue of why these persons went to prison. Herr Hitler, for instance, did not go to prison for his government of the Third Reich. He went to prison for trying to overthrow the Weimar Republic (or the Bavarian Land - I'ma bit hazy on that detail at present, but you get the idea). And Mr Mandela did not go to prison for his implementation of the apartheid policy of the RSA Government at the time.
Mandela went to prison for TERRORISM
Say what you like about Boris, and I admit he is not a saint, he didn’t anything as bad at MADIBA
Theresa May excoriating Gray shows No10 didn't observe rules it imposed. "Either [he] hasn't read the rules, or understood the rules or didn't think the rules applied to No 10? Which is it" PM gives her short shrift, full denial mode in tone cld well further incense some MPs
Comments
Hitler was also jailed for treason and sentenced to five years in Landsberg Prison, he dictated Mein Kampf to fellow prisoners Emil Maurice and Rudolf Hess. On 20 December 1924, having served only nine months, Hitler was released.
Now into "Yes We Can" Bob the Builder chanting.
We are SURELY better than this.
This is not about Gray
And remember that 54 MPs need to write letters but I bet by close of play tonight there aren't anything like 54 letters written.
We should know this week even by tomorrow
"Fix" has more than one meaning, lad.
The FDA, the union representing senior civil servants, says the full Sue Gray report must be published eventually. In a statement, its general secretary, Dave Penman, said:
"[...] The general findings will make uncomfortable reading for all of those in leadership positions in No.10, whether political or official. While no one can question their commitment and hard work when they led the country’s response to the pandemic, they were not alone, as hundreds of thousands of key workers in the public and private sector made extraordinary sacrifices throughout this time. Whatever led to a culture where they lost a sense of perspective has to be addressed quickly, as the report recommends."
Was that some civil servant trying to troll us with the most ludicrous nonsense he could slip into the report?
This is bloody cracking from SKS
Tilbury?
I thought this was a statement on Gray investigation?
And I would not blame a single other person for doing the same. I would not blame a couple for throwing a party in their own home. I would not blame a teenager for setting up a soundsystem and going raving in the forest of dean. I would not blame a middle aged son or daughter for going to spend time with an elderly relative. Etc. So many things are more important than "covid". As most of us, two years later, have now seen.
But the fact is, it was Boris who made those stupid, pointless, horrific rules that turned our country into an orwellian police state where neighbours tittle tattled on each other and joy was banned in a way not seen since Oliver Cromwell.
And Boris broke those rules. For that hypocrisy, I damn him.
If anyone else attended a party, or hosted one, I would not give a flying fig. But when the architects of lockdown, and all the horrors that came with it, are shown to have repeatedly and egregiously broken their own rules, I hope someone throws the book at them.
The Jimmy Saville comment was superb. Absolutely brilliant performance from Johnson.
Big Dog is saved!
Johnson's response is pretty disgraceful.
And May next up!
G Howe of today?
It’s this sort of bollocks which angers voters
“Yes Mr Speaker, I was found holding the bloody knife saying I killed the bastard but look at what I did before, and Freeport’s, and Labour smell”……
Looks like a man who knows he’s in trouble
We covered that story last week on here as I remember double checking why nothing happened.
Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
Say what you like about Boris, and I admit he is not a saint, he didn’t anything as bad at MADIBA
All that rubbish about Jimmy Saville as well
Ah, I see the flaw with my comment.
What a desperate and pathetic response. Embarrassingly barrel-scraping nonsense.
But Starmer did it very well.
Gray shows No10 didn't observe rules it imposed. "Either [he] hasn't read the rules, or understood the rules or didn't think the rules applied to No 10? Which is it"
PM gives her short shrift, full denial mode in tone cld well further incense some MPs
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1488178450888372224?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA
What did SKS say i have forgot already
Blackford to be thrown out
Telegraph Politics
@TelePolitics
Red circle Alcohol-filled luggage was not just a feature of Boris Johnson’s Downing Street, The Telegraph can reveal.
It was also seen in the days of both David Cameron and Theresa May Downwards arrow
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/30/partygate-suitcase-wine-dates-back-days-david-cameron-theresa/
https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1487880596047208457