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Some of the CON seats that could fall on a 10% swing to the LDs – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    This statistical back and forth is entertaining and all that.
    But precious no bugger outside Tory backwoodsmen saw the point of Brexit as radical supply side reform.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,940
    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    pigeon said:

    rpjs said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Report tonight 50,000 doctors, nurses and staff are already unavailable for Christmas due to covid

    If Boris does act, no matter the civil war in his party, he will be putting the country first

    I will be very interested in whether the lib dems will also be against this time
    How many of those staff are medically unfit for work and how many just have a positive test result? The solution to labour shortages is pretty clear now. Eliminate the self isolation rules for positive tests. Since everyone is going to catch it anyway.
    Leaving aside whether there is any merit to that idea at all, I really don’t think it’d be such a good idea when the people they’d be working with are going to be skewing way to the vulnerable to COVID end.
    If Omicron takes off on as steep a trajectory as the boffins fear then Government may have no choice but to ditch self-isolation. One thing that would logically be worse than having all those extra Covid plague spreaders stalking the land, regardless of how desperate they are to suppress it, would be a descent into anarchy - because there are so many workers locked in their own homes that there aren't enough left to keep the lights, heating and water on, to stock the supermarket shelves, to police the streets and to treat the sick.
    That was always the fear even in the original wave, so you'd hope that someone in Government would have an idea of what to do in that situation.
    We've already seen what happens in the petrol crisis the other month. After a week of dilly dallying they announce they will send in the army, by which time the crisis is almost over and supplies are back to normal.

    But I would not expect the government to take swift action. Could be a couple of very interesting weeks ahead.

    And without wanting to come over all doom and gloom, that's before the Chinese economy effectively shuts down over all this.
    I strongly suspect the government will now act quickly. Surprisingly quickly

    As has been pointed out multiple times, if you are going to lockdown, you do it sooner rather than later. Delaying prolongs the agony

    Close hospitality this week? Then impose the social distancing rules after Xmas?

    Seems logical. I hate it and I despise it, but that would be the logical move, if you believe in this voodoo shit
    I think Boris will do whatever he thinks is the most popular thing to do.

    He'll look at what his MPs are saying, what his core vote are saying, what voters in marginals are saying. If lockdown is popular and it buys him another month in power, we'll lock down.

    Does Boris have any firm convictions, any at all? Boris revealed himself to us all when he wrote two columns the eve before deciding to support Brexit. He is a man who blows with the wind.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    kyf_100 said:

    pigeon said:

    rpjs said:

    moonshine said:

    Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Report tonight 50,000 doctors, nurses and staff are already unavailable for Christmas due to covid

    If Boris does act, no matter the civil war in his party, he will be putting the country first

    I will be very interested in whether the lib dems will also be against this time
    How many of those staff are medically unfit for work and how many just have a positive test result? The solution to labour shortages is pretty clear now. Eliminate the self isolation rules for positive tests. Since everyone is going to catch it anyway.
    Leaving aside whether there is any merit to that idea at all, I really don’t think it’d be such a good idea when the people they’d be working with are going to be skewing way to the vulnerable to COVID end.
    If Omicron takes off on as steep a trajectory as the boffins fear then Government may have no choice but to ditch self-isolation. One thing that would logically be worse than having all those extra Covid plague spreaders stalking the land, regardless of how desperate they are to suppress it, would be a descent into anarchy - because there are so many workers locked in their own homes that there aren't enough left to keep the lights, heating and water on, to stock the supermarket shelves, to police the streets and to treat the sick.
    That was always the fear even in the original wave, so you'd hope that someone in Government would have an idea of what to do in that situation.
    We've already seen what happens in the petrol crisis the other month. After a week of dilly dallying they announce they will send in the army, by which time the crisis is almost over and supplies are back to normal.

    But I would not expect the government to take swift action. Could be a couple of very interesting weeks ahead.

    And without wanting to come over all doom and gloom, that's before the Chinese economy effectively shuts down over all this.
    I strongly suspect the government will now act quickly. Surprisingly quickly

    As has been pointed out multiple times, if you are going to lockdown, you do it sooner rather than later. Delaying prolongs the agony

    Close hospitality this week? Then impose the social distancing rules after Xmas?

    Seems logical. I hate it and I despise it, but that would be the logical move, if you believe in this voodoo shit
    Close hospitality this week on one of their busiest weeks of the year would be devastating.

    At most bring in vaxports not a full lockdown
    Vaxmasports.

    The portmanteau the world has not been waiting for.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,149
    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
  • moonshine said:

    Is this Lord Frost resignation the tipping point for bojo or tomorrows chip paper?

    It's an odd time to resign if you want your resignation to achieve anything; MPs have gone home for the holidays, there's a genuine crisis on (either the virus or rear of the virus), the public won't be that interested. And by January, the circus will have moved on.

    I hope he didn't behave so strangely in the negotiations.

    Oh.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Report tonight 50,000 doctors, nurses and staff are already unavailable for Christmas due to covid

    If Boris does act, no matter the civil war in his party, he will be putting the country first

    I will e very interested in whether the lib dems will also against this time
    Ah yes, that old chestnut.
    Where is the chestnut

    It is a simple question
    I can't work Christmas Day because I've been in contact with someone who has Covid. Soz.
    Surely if you're a vaccinated contact person you keep working? What are the rules now?
    Daily LFT at my Trust. Only Isolate if personally positive, or sick of course.

    People on for Christmas have known about it for months, it is part of the job. It is the short notice gaps due to illness that will be hard to cover. Many are on leave, often abroad with family, and others would exceed permitted hours if they came in.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    moonshine said:

    Is this Lord Frost resignation the tipping point for bojo or tomorrows chip paper?

    It's an odd time to resign if you want your resignation to achieve anything; MPs have gone home for the holidays, there's a genuine crisis on (either the virus or rear of the virus), the public won't be that interested. And by January, the circus will have moved on.

    I hope he didn't behave so strangely in the negotiations.

    Oh.
    Not to mention the pay he'd accrue for not working across several Bank Holidays.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Plague Island...

    BREAKING: Germany to class the UK as a virus variant area from Monday, restricting travel from the UK to Germany. It’s been announced tonight by the Robert Koch Institute. More details to come… https://twitter.com/spiegel_eil/status/1472321450111610885

    It might make sense to restrict us now, as we did with southern Africa. Once omicron is in and has a bit of steam from doubling you might as well lift it though.
    It'll be everywhere in short order, restrictions should lift in a week or two.
    Denmark of course is already really bad, as is Holland. France its well seeded. Even if it isn't widespread in Germany, their neighbours have it already.
    I can't see a way that it isn't all over Germany. Neighbouring countries, travel etc.
    Kamski reckoned Germany was 2 weeks behind the UK, Omicron-wise, maybe less


    I reckon "maybe less" is probably right. Everywhere in western Europe is maybe ten days behind the UK at best

    It is far too infectious for it not to be lurking already in the data, ready to explode. Look at the record numbers in NY State today, that's Omicron. Ditto Ireland
    Given they are running testing at 16% of the UK level and of those tests sequencing 12% of the positive outcomes, how the fiddle do they think they have the remotest idea how much Omicron they already have?
    They haven't. Closing the borders to us is simply a near-painless way of being seen to be doing something.
    Indeed. France the same. It was a purely political gesture, against Brexit Britain. If it had been a genuinely medical issue, they would have quarantined Denmark, Norway and probably Holland and Belgium as well. They did not

    By all accounts it was self harming. The huge French ski industry is majorly dependant on the British market in December and Jan. They have lost hundreds of millions, and the losses continue. To what end and for what purpose?
    They can't close the borders to any of those nations' citizens unless they test positive for Covid as they are in the EU or EEA with free movement unlike the UK
    I don’t think so. I believe they can close to Schengen citizens as an emergency measure. I recall in the first wave a lot countries did so with the European Commission reluctantly conceding they could, but complaining about how long they maintained the closures for.
    It is almost like they have sovereignty.....
    Surely not...

    Philip?
    Of course EU countries can and do impose quarantine and other restrictions on arrivals from other EU countries (I don't think HYUFD ever understood "free movement").

    At the moment nearly all of Germany's neighbours are "high risk" so unless you are fully vaccinated you have to do 10 days quarantine on arrival in Germany. (I think you can shorten to 5 days with a negative test after 5 days, and there are bound to be loads of exceptions).

    It might not make much sense to make the UK a "variant" area at this point, but the reason why the UK is and the Netherlands isn't is geography and the complete lack of any kind of actual border between Germany and the Netherlands, as well as politics.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    EXC - big row in a Tory Whatsapp “Clean Global Brexit” group with over 100 MPs

    It leads leads to removal of Nadine Dorries after she defending the PM … and then Steve Baker declaring “enough is enough”

    Exchanges here:
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1472331053775958016/photo/1

    Once again, Steve Baker seems like the most rational of the lot of them.

    Who was it who talked Farage into not standing candidates?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    South Africa have just reported 16,080 cases,

    That's up from: 17,153 reported last Saturday.

    Can somebody tell me how this squares with a virus that doubles every 2 days?
  • moonshine said:

    Is this Lord Frost resignation the tipping point for bojo or tomorrows chip paper?

    It's serious. Frost is idolized by the Tory membership. I wonder if a leadership plot is now firmly underway and this is part of it - Frosty makes a dramatic return to the cabinet once Boris is ousted to burnish his successor's Brexity credentials.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    What an idiotic statement. Children who grow up on farms go to school and socialise.

    Where is the evidence of your assertion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
  • Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Report tonight 50,000 doctors, nurses and staff are already unavailable for Christmas due to covid

    If Boris does act, no matter the civil war in his party, he will be putting the country first

    I will be very interested in whether the lib dems will also be against this time
    There's about 1.7m employed by the NHS.

    All of whom will be infected by covid at some point.

    Just like everyone else in the country.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    @Leon!!

    This makes your ninth hour on PB. You sad fuck.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    New Allegra tape headache for Boris: No10 braces for fresh embarrassment amid fears ex-spokeswoman Allegra Stratton was questioned about the PM's private life in ANOTHER excerpt from Partygate tape that could be screened in days

    A source told The Mail on Sunday that the recorded sessions included mock questions aimed at Ms Stratton referring to 'mistresses' and 'love children' of Mr Johnson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10324485/New-Allegra-Stratton-tapes-Boris-Johnson-circulation.html
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,914
    kamski said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Plague Island...

    BREAKING: Germany to class the UK as a virus variant area from Monday, restricting travel from the UK to Germany. It’s been announced tonight by the Robert Koch Institute. More details to come… https://twitter.com/spiegel_eil/status/1472321450111610885

    It might make sense to restrict us now, as we did with southern Africa. Once omicron is in and has a bit of steam from doubling you might as well lift it though.
    It'll be everywhere in short order, restrictions should lift in a week or two.
    Denmark of course is already really bad, as is Holland. France its well seeded. Even if it isn't widespread in Germany, their neighbours have it already.
    I can't see a way that it isn't all over Germany. Neighbouring countries, travel etc.
    Kamski reckoned Germany was 2 weeks behind the UK, Omicron-wise, maybe less


    I reckon "maybe less" is probably right. Everywhere in western Europe is maybe ten days behind the UK at best

    It is far too infectious for it not to be lurking already in the data, ready to explode. Look at the record numbers in NY State today, that's Omicron. Ditto Ireland
    Given they are running testing at 16% of the UK level and of those tests sequencing 12% of the positive outcomes, how the fiddle do they think they have the remotest idea how much Omicron they already have?
    They haven't. Closing the borders to us is simply a near-painless way of being seen to be doing something.
    Indeed. France the same. It was a purely political gesture, against Brexit Britain. If it had been a genuinely medical issue, they would have quarantined Denmark, Norway and probably Holland and Belgium as well. They did not

    By all accounts it was self harming. The huge French ski industry is majorly dependant on the British market in December and Jan. They have lost hundreds of millions, and the losses continue. To what end and for what purpose?
    They can't close the borders to any of those nations' citizens unless they test positive for Covid as they are in the EU or EEA with free movement unlike the UK
    I don’t think so. I believe they can close to Schengen citizens as an emergency measure. I recall in the first wave a lot countries did so with the European Commission reluctantly conceding they could, but complaining about how long they maintained the closures for.
    It is almost like they have sovereignty.....
    Surely not...

    Philip?
    Of course EU countries can and do impose quarantine and other restrictions on arrivals from other EU countries (I don't think HYUFD ever understood "free movement").

    At the moment nearly all of Germany's neighbours are "high risk" so unless you are fully vaccinated you have to do 10 days quarantine on arrival in Germany. (I think you can shorten to 5 days with a negative test after 5 days, and there are bound to be loads of exceptions).

    It might not make much sense to make the UK a "variant" area at this point, but the reason why the UK is and the Netherlands isn't is geography and the complete lack of any kind of actual border between Germany and the Netherlands, as well as politics.
    The difference is if from the UK you have to quarantine now even if fully vaccinated and if you tested negative, that would not be required of EEA nations on emergency public health grounds
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    Quite right. I had a rather lonely childhood - our street had a lot of OAP bungalows so no other kids to mix with. But I grew up phenomenally intelligent as everyone knows.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    On the flip side.
    There are plenty who've spent more time with their parents than ever before.
  • All the usual suspects are coming out of the woodwork now...

    PROFESSOR CARL HENEGHAN: I'm a GP on the frontline, and I don't think we're overwhelmed with Covid

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10324747/PROFESSOR-CARL-HENEGHAN-Im-GP-frontline-dont-think-overwhelmed-Covid.html
  • BigRich said:

    South Africa have just reported 16,080 cases,

    That's up from: 17,153 reported last Saturday.

    Can somebody tell me how this squares with a virus that doubles every 2 days?

    As a French philosopher once said - it might work in practice but does it work in theory.

    Likewise Omicron - there's Omicron in practice and Omicron in theory.

    And the government and scientists are only interested in the theoretical Omicron - the one which doubles every two days.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    New Allegra tape headache for Boris: No10 braces for fresh embarrassment amid fears ex-spokeswoman Allegra Stratton was questioned about the PM's private life in ANOTHER excerpt from Partygate tape that could be screened in days

    A source told The Mail on Sunday that the recorded sessions included mock questions aimed at Ms Stratton referring to 'mistresses' and 'love children' of Mr Johnson.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10324485/New-Allegra-Stratton-tapes-Boris-Johnson-circulation.html

    Franny. Leave it.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Report tonight 50,000 doctors, nurses and staff are already unavailable for Christmas due to covid

    If Boris does act, no matter the civil war in his party, he will be putting the country first

    I will e very interested in whether the lib dems will also against this time
    Ah yes, that old chestnut.
    Where is the chestnut

    It is a simple question
    I can't work Christmas Day because I've been in contact with someone who has Covid. Soz.
    Surely if you're a vaccinated contact person you keep working? What are the rules now?
    Daily LFT at my Trust. Only Isolate if personally positive, or sick of course.

    People on for Christmas have known about it for months, it is part of the job. It is the short notice gaps due to illness that will be hard to cover. Many are on leave, often abroad with family, and others would exceed permitted hours if they came in.
    Similar here. The main problem seems to be with shortage of nursing staff - where high levels of job dissatisfaction are also making it harder to cover shifts. Hospitals could just offer extra hard cash bonuses for nurses to cover extra shifts, it would probably work, but they don't want to spend the money - many are already in bad financial shape due to things like operations being cancelled and extra covid expenses
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Why don't people care about every death caused by someone not getting their cancer treatment? I'm fed up with this tunnel vision where Covid-19 is automatically more important than everything else.
    Yes, but it is hospitals full of covid that is preventing cancer treatments, not lockdowns 🙄

    As explained here:

    https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1471485797530583046?t=Ioe-fDmXZ9s3LijvSG9aBA&s=19
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
  • IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC - big row in a Tory Whatsapp “Clean Global Brexit” group with over 100 MPs

    It leads leads to removal of Nadine Dorries after she defending the PM … and then Steve Baker declaring “enough is enough”

    Exchanges here:
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1472331053775958016/photo/1

    Odd that after several critical posts, Dorries sticks up for the clown and that alone is sufficient for Baker to banish her.
    I'm amazed how much time some Tory MPs have to argue on WhatsApp - there seem to be numerous different lists for different shades of opinion, all packed with people shouting at each other. When do they get any constituency correspondence done?
    I suspect you can say similar about the time many MPs spend on various social media platforms.

    And that's before we get on to the time various MPs spend doing other work.

    It would be interesting to know how the time spent on various tasks has varied over decades.
  • moonshine said:

    Is this Lord Frost resignation the tipping point for bojo or tomorrows chip paper?

    More likely the former as the chip shops will all be shut down by tomorrow.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    On the flip side.
    There are plenty who've spent more time with their parents than ever before.
    Which with some dysfunctional families, may not be a good thing?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Observer saying that conservative mps will not move against Boris due to the covid crisis and will wait for the May elections

    Not sure how long that will hold

    Not long, if Boris tries to bring in Lockdown 4


    Then it won't be a question of Should he be PM, there will just be enormous resistance to the economic and social damage this entails
    The pressure for him to do so is going to be enormous. Every rise in cases, hospitalisations and deaths will be followed by why aren't you following SAGE advice. Sky News report was already we are going to hell in a hand basket, something must be done....
    Report tonight 50,000 doctors, nurses and staff are already unavailable for Christmas due to covid

    If Boris does act, no matter the civil war in his party, he will be putting the country first

    I will e very interested in whether the lib dems will also against this time
    Ah yes, that old chestnut.
    Where is the chestnut

    It is a simple question
    I can't work Christmas Day because I've been in contact with someone who has Covid. Soz.
    Surely if you're a vaccinated contact person you keep working? What are the rules now?
    Daily LFT at my Trust. Only Isolate if personally positive, or sick of course.

    People on for Christmas have known about it for months, it is part of the job. It is the short notice gaps due to illness that will be hard to cover. Many are on leave, often abroad with family, and others would exceed permitted hours if they came in.
    Similar here. The main problem seems to be with shortage of nursing staff - where high levels of job dissatisfaction are also making it harder to cover shifts. Hospitals could just offer extra hard cash bonuses for nurses to cover extra shifts, it would probably work, but they don't want to spend the money - many are already in bad financial shape due to things like operations being cancelled and extra covid expenses
    Yes, in my Trust overtime rates are poor, getting few takers. The problem isn't the pay though. Many of our staff have spent months on covid redeployment, and get major anxiety attacks about it, to the point of PTSD. It really is very stressful being chucked in the deep end.
  • I know we think cases are irrelevant but is anyone concerned about long COVID anymore
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
    Absolutely.

    The opinions of people who make light of the plight of children are not worth taking seriously.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
    Our council didn’t cut the grass in the parks. By the end of the first lockdown it was knee high. Waist high to a small child.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    A three year old will have had 67% of their life with some kind of restriction.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited December 2021
    Brexit civil war is like a comfort food for Tories. They're in kind of a shitty situation with Omicron, they don't really have enough information to make a good decision and people are kind of sick of lockdowns, but the potentially later they leave the worse it gets. It's just all bad and muddled and confusing. Whereas with Brexit, it's inspiring and patriotic and the factions are all lined up nicely in ways you can understand and everybody can have fun making enemies of everybody else.
  • I know we think cases are irrelevant but is anyone concerned about long COVID anymore

    My daughter is having had it for 5 weeks and is still suffering
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    On the flip side.
    There are plenty who've spent more time with their parents than ever before.
    Which with some dysfunctional families, may not be a good thing?
    Well indeed.
    I nearly put for better or for worse.
    But. Seriously. This country does all it can to get parents back to work and put kids in childcare.
    There are plenty countries where kids spend all the time with their parents. And don't see much of other children.
  • Good to see the ever frothing headbangers coming for one of their own (he never was) - POBWAS.

    Baker, Bridgen et al must have been so gutted to be off the telly for so long. Glad they've been able to have their Whatsapp groups to keep them busy in their echo chamber.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    Parallel play at 2, usually, but 6 months is a long time when you are 3 too.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    But how often will toddlers have seen people wearing masks? People don't wear masks at home.

    I have a nephew who was born on March 8th 2020, and their grandparents have spent lots of time babysitting him, and he's been doing lots of mimicking of them and their mannerisms, and he's been learning a whole bunch of actions to various nursery rhyme songs.

    I just don't see when toddlers are spending lots of time around adults who are wearing masks. When?

    We had stories about children turning up to reception with increasing levels of developmental delay before the pandemic. Of course, when it happens now it *must* be due to lockdown/pandemic/masks.
  • pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here

    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"

    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20

    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    This will only compound existing problems with poor parenting, especially in less affluent areas, that pre-date Covid. Some of these benighted reception class teachers are going to be so busy providing potty training, remedial speech therapy, trying to impart basic social skills and dealing with "challenging" behaviour that they'll have precious little time for anything else.
    Nonsense. Children haven't been separated from their parents. Nursery schools, and childminders, have been open virtually throughout. Yes, there's lots of very poor parenting; but that's nothing new, and the Telegraph (which has zero sympathy for the culturally and economically poor) is just trying to use this in its right-wing anti-NPI agenda.
    Utter bollocks and codswallop. Children need more than just their parents to interact with.

    My youngest has suffered in her development thanks to lockdown and is undergoing speech and language therapy now.

    One problem as a parent is you come to understand your own child far better than others do, so it becomes hard for you to hear how difficult it is for others to understand someone you're talking with every single day. A bit like how you don't notice your own accent or the accents of others nearby but go to a foreign country and suddenly accents are very real.

    For you to pretend years of in person schooling is something that can be written off without consequences clearly shows how little respect you have for education.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
    Early years is a hugely underpaid and underappreciated profession.
    Lots of developmental interventions are pretty run of the mill tbh.
    But won't happen if they aren't spotted
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    On the flip side.
    There are plenty who've spent more time with their parents than ever before.
    Which with some dysfunctional families, may not be a good thing?
    Well indeed.
    I nearly put for better or for worse.
    But. Seriously. This country does all it can to get parents back to work and put kids in childcare.
    There are plenty countries where kids spend all the time with their parents. And don't see much of other children.
    Speak to teachers of reception classes about what they are seeing in their intakes. It isn't quality time that many have had with parents, it is screen time.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here

    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"

    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20

    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    This will only compound existing problems with poor parenting, especially in less affluent areas, that pre-date Covid. Some of these benighted reception class teachers are going to be so busy providing potty training, remedial speech therapy, trying to impart basic social skills and dealing with "challenging" behaviour that they'll have precious little time for anything else.
    Nonsense. Children haven't been separated from their parents. Nursery schools, and childminders, have been open virtually throughout. Yes, there's lots of very poor parenting; but that's nothing new, and the Telegraph (which has zero sympathy for the culturally and economically poor) is just trying to use this in its right-wing anti-NPI agenda.
    Utter bollocks and codswallop. Children need more than just their parents to interact with.

    My youngest has suffered in her development thanks to lockdown and is undergoing speech and language therapy now.

    One problem as a parent is you come to understand your own child far better than others do, so it becomes hard for you to hear how difficult it is for others to understand someone you're talking with every single day. A bit like how you don't notice your own accent or the accents of others nearby but go to a foreign country and suddenly accents are very real.

    For you to pretend years of in person schooling is something that can be written off without consequences clearly shows how little respect you have for education.
    Frankly, people who theorise away the problems of children during this time are c*nts.

    I can imagine that for parents such as yourself it must be extremely distressing.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    rpjs said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Plague Island...

    BREAKING: Germany to class the UK as a virus variant area from Monday, restricting travel from the UK to Germany. It’s been announced tonight by the Robert Koch Institute. More details to come… https://twitter.com/spiegel_eil/status/1472321450111610885

    It might make sense to restrict us now, as we did with southern Africa. Once omicron is in and has a bit of steam from doubling you might as well lift it though.
    It'll be everywhere in short order, restrictions should lift in a week or two.
    Denmark of course is already really bad, as is Holland. France its well seeded. Even if it isn't widespread in Germany, their neighbours have it already.
    I can't see a way that it isn't all over Germany. Neighbouring countries, travel etc.
    Kamski reckoned Germany was 2 weeks behind the UK, Omicron-wise, maybe less


    I reckon "maybe less" is probably right. Everywhere in western Europe is maybe ten days behind the UK at best

    It is far too infectious for it not to be lurking already in the data, ready to explode. Look at the record numbers in NY State today, that's Omicron. Ditto Ireland
    Given they are running testing at 16% of the UK level and of those tests sequencing 12% of the positive outcomes, how the fiddle do they think they have the remotest idea how much Omicron they already have?
    They haven't. Closing the borders to us is simply a near-painless way of being seen to be doing something.
    Indeed. France the same. It was a purely political gesture, against Brexit Britain. If it had been a genuinely medical issue, they would have quarantined Denmark, Norway and probably Holland and Belgium as well. They did not

    By all accounts it was self harming. The huge French ski industry is majorly dependant on the British market in December and Jan. They have lost hundreds of millions, and the losses continue. To what end and for what purpose?
    They can't close the borders to any of those nations' citizens unless they test positive for Covid as they are in the EU or EEA with free movement unlike the UK
    I don’t think so. I believe they can close to Schengen citizens as an emergency measure. I recall in the first wave a lot countries did so with the European Commission reluctantly conceding they could, but complaining about how long they maintained the closures for.
    It is almost like they have sovereignty.....
    Surely not...

    Philip?
    Of course EU countries can and do impose quarantine and other restrictions on arrivals from other EU countries (I don't think HYUFD ever understood "free movement").

    At the moment nearly all of Germany's neighbours are "high risk" so unless you are fully vaccinated you have to do 10 days quarantine on arrival in Germany. (I think you can shorten to 5 days with a negative test after 5 days, and there are bound to be loads of exceptions).

    It might not make much sense to make the UK a "variant" area at this point, but the reason why the UK is and the Netherlands isn't is geography and the complete lack of any kind of actual border between Germany and the Netherlands, as well as politics.
    The difference is if from the UK you have to quarantine now even if fully vaccinated and if you tested negative, that would not be required of EEA nations on emergency public health grounds
    Sorry but no. The difference is the UK has been made a "variant" area, and the others are "high risk" areas. There is nothing stopping an EEA country (or parts of) being made a "variant" area tomorrow and having the exact same rules as apply to the UK.

    EEA countries can and do impose quarantine on arrivals from other EEA countries. This is simply a fact. "free movement" does not prevent this.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2021
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    On the flip side.
    There are plenty who've spent more time with their parents than ever before.
    Which with some dysfunctional families, may not be a good thing?
    Well indeed.
    I nearly put for better or for worse.
    But. Seriously. This country does all it can to get parents back to work and put kids in childcare.
    There are plenty countries where kids spend all the time with their parents. And don't see much of other children.
    Speak to teachers of reception classes about what they are seeing in their intakes. It isn't quality time that many have had with parents, it is screen time.
    Well. That is a different issue. And one that has been getting progressively worse. It didn't begin with lockdown either.
    CBeebies all day has been around a long time.
  • Following the leaking of his letter Lord Frost resigns with immediate effect

    Utter shambles
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
    Early years is a hugely underpaid and underappreciated profession.
    Lots of developmental interventions are pretty run of the mill tbh.
    But won't happen if they aren't spotted
    It is going to be a long time to get over the educational mess, from primary school reception to University.

    In particular the gulf of inequality has got wider. Those at private schools in big houses with good IT vs those who have done hardly anything for a year, and have designed.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    Parallel play at 2, usually, but 6 months is a long time when you are 3 too.
    Indeed.
    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    A three year old will have had 67% of their life with some kind of restriction.
    Yes but tthey won't be aware of it?
    What they will have had is adults under stress. Far worse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
    Early years is a hugely underpaid and underappreciated profession.
    Lots of developmental interventions are pretty run of the mill tbh.
    But won't happen if they aren't spotted
    It is going to be a long time to get over the educational mess, from primary school reception to University.

    In particular the gulf of inequality has got wider. Those at private schools in big houses with good IT vs those who have done hardly anything for a year, and have designed.
    Yes.
    It's the inequalities which have been laid bare by COVID which will take decades to shake out.
    Almost nobody is talking about this.
  • The Wurzels drummer John Morgan dies aged 80 after contracting Covid on tour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/18/wurzels-drummer-john-morgan-dies-aged-80-contracting-covid-tour/
  • Good to see the ever frothing headbangers coming for one of their own (he never was) - POBWAS.

    Baker, Bridgen et al must have been so gutted to be off the telly for so long. Glad they've been able to have their Whatsapp groups to keep them busy in their echo chamber.

    It would be astonishing if - despite COVID, Partygate, sleaze shenanigans and all the rest of it - Boris became a Tory prime minister who was destroyed over Europe. Another one!
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    https://twitter.com/ydeigin/status/1471249247249080323?s=20

    There's never been a science fiction film where a laboratory accidentally leaks a lethal pandemic onto the world and a rogue lab worker with survivor guilt experiments on mice to create a far more transmissable, milder variant to give the world immunity far faster than a clunky, expensive, inequitable vaccine delivery was capable of doing, has there? Because it would be deranged.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Omicron impressions today:

    - Story didn't develop much today
    - Inner London may be close to full replacement of Delta meaning, hopefully, case growth will settle down to mere exponential, rather than above exponential, next week.
    - Hertfordshire, Essex, Surrey, parts of Manchester into the main phase of Delta -> Omicron switchover now.
    - These will see large growth next week and spread radial to London will continue.
    - Nottingham is close to Omicron switchover and Central Scotland has seemed on the brink for days without ever quite going over.
    - A lot of the UK is still relatively quiet meaning Delta remains dominant and Omicron still at low levels in a lot of places.

    - UK is going to switch over to Omicron like many pieces of corn being popped. London is a big opener and still expanding. The starting to pop areas don't dwarf London yet, but will help drive a slightly quicker expansion alongside London early next week.
    - The main cases question next week is how quickly new switchover areas will start popping all at once and will London increases be showing any sign of slowing down by that point.
    - The other question next week is how quickly national Hospitalisations begin to increase more quickly beyond their current, 8% per week exponent, and London Hospitalisations above their 44% current figure.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    If delayed socialisation had a major impact on childrens' long-term development then those who grew up on farms - especially those in countries where primary education starts much later - would have worse educational outcomes.

    They don't.
    As a parent of a child that has recently been denied entry to reception from the preschool currently attended due to development issues, I would like to say this. We dont know to what extent these issues are due to the lockdowns and restrictions. We do certainly know that they have delayed them picking them up, and that there are massive waiting lists for assessment and therapy. And the closure of playgrounds during the first lockdown was the most spiteful act as it meant one could not even visit the local park (try taking a toddler to the park to play on the grass next to a closed playground).
    Early years is a hugely underpaid and underappreciated profession.
    Lots of developmental interventions are pretty run of the mill tbh.
    But won't happen if they aren't spotted
    It is going to be a long time to get over the educational mess, from primary school reception to University.

    In particular the gulf of inequality has got wider. Those at private schools in big houses with good IT vs those who have done hardly anything for a year, and have designed.
    Yes.
    It's the inequalities which have been laid bare by COVID which will take decades to shake out.
    Almost nobody is talking about this.
    Yes, it is a real problem. I see it with the Med School applicants, but it goes right the way down. It will take years to catch up.

    I am no fans of lockdowns, but if it is a choice of pubs open or schools, I know which I would choose.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    A three year old will have had 67% of their life with some kind of restriction.
    Amen. Let us never close the schools again

    NEVER
  • The Wurzels drummer John Morgan dies aged 80 after contracting Covid on tour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/12/18/wurzels-drummer-john-morgan-dies-aged-80-contracting-covid-tour/

    And the comedian Jethro also succumbed a few days ago. Covid is certainly targeting spoof West Country entertainers from the 1970s.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    I was born with congenital cataracts. I was blind until I was three. Yet I learnt to read and write before attending infants’ school.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    moonshine said:

    Is this Lord Frost resignation the tipping point for bojo or tomorrows chip paper?

    More likely the former as the chip shops will all be shut down by tomorrow.
    Just got an invite to Boris's tipping point party. "Bring your own large plastic discs pushing machine will be provided"
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464
    I see Lord frost has resigned, FWIW I am not sure he ever achieved much,,,
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    A three year old will have had 67% of their life with some kind of restriction.
    Amen. Let us never close the schools again

    NEVER
    Apart from next week
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    26 Tory seats is a pretty poor return for a 10% swing.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    I was born with congenital cataracts. I was blind until I was three. Yet I learnt to read and write before attending infants’ school.
    There's this "thing" that people have. The way they brought up is the best way, and any deviation from it (like TV... video games... the Internet... etc.) will cause developmental problems for children.

    Yet the evidence - time and time again - is that it makes bugger all difference.

    People in countries where school starts at seven and those where it starts at four... same educational outcomes.

    People who live in towns and are therefore v. likely to attend pre-school and to socialise early vs those in the countryside where they'll be with their families until formal school... same educational outcomes.

    People whose education was massively impacted by World War Two and the generations either side of it... same educational outcomes.

    You know what, it's been fucking shit for kids. There will be depression. There will be speech impediments. And all that.

    But kids brains are incredibly plastic. Even if they'd missed two full years of school (which they haven't), they'd be fine. Because we're humans and we adapt.
    Yep.
    Jane Austen has much arch commentary on the supposedly pernicious effect of the invention of the novel on young minds.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,149

    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    EXC - big row in a Tory Whatsapp “Clean Global Brexit” group with over 100 MPs

    It leads leads to removal of Nadine Dorries after she defending the PM … and then Steve Baker declaring “enough is enough”

    Exchanges here:
    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1472331053775958016/photo/1

    "The whole point of Brexit is a radical supply side reform."
    They talk of little else in Leigh to be fair.
    Full employment and growing wages in Leigh suggests it's working for them.
    Do you have stats for Leigh to back up that claim?
    https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8748/CBP-8748.pdf

    Leigh 4.9% unemployment rate.

    5.0% is traditionally the threshold for "full employment".
    and wages?
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/earningsandworkinghours/datasets/placeofworkbyparliamentaryconstituencyashetable9

    8.4% average annual wage growth in Leigh
    Not sure where you’re looking but I’m seeing 4.5% for Leigh which is of course below inflation, and therefore not wage growth?
    8.4% mean average, 5.2% median average, both are above inflation - and full employment too.


    (Point of order: that's gross. Because of fiscal drag, most peoples' post tax incomes will rise less - percentage-wise - than their pre-tax ones.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    When our Church reopened its mother and toddler group in the autumn, lots of the toddlers hadn't played with another child for 6 months. They were quite spooked initially. It's a long time when you are 2.
    2 year olds play with each other?
    Not in my experience. Associative play rarely begins before 3.
    A three year old will have had 67% of their life with some kind of restriction.
    Amen. Let us never close the schools again

    NEVER
    Does it fall to me to point out a 3 year old has never been to school?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    I see Lord frost has resigned, FWIW I am not sure he ever achieved much,,,

    Anyone heard from Charlie Falconer?
  • I see Lord frost has resigned, FWIW I am not sure he ever achieved much,,,

    Lord Frost was the talisman that convinced the entire Conservative Party that Brexit is on track. As such he was more significant than any Cabinet minister.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    "@oliverburkeman

    Feeling anxious? Why not sit around for hours consuming news in an era when virtually all news organisations are financially incentivised to spotlight the most anxiety-inducing stories and forecasts of how bad things are going to get

    6:12 PM · Dec 18, 2021·Twitter Web App"

    https://twitter.com/oliverburkeman/status/1472268550794534915
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    I see Lord frost has resigned, FWIW I am not sure he ever achieved much,,,

    Lord Frost was the talisman that convinced the entire Conservative Party that Brexit is on track. As such he was more significant than any Cabinet minister.
    Talisman is an interesting word, it implies a lack of substance - he seemed to represent a lot of the leave community - middle aged, overweight, slightly pompous white male who may have reassured certain Conservatives but actually contrived with BJ to leave us with a very very messy NI situation, an unhappy relationship with Brussels and a lack of substance. I'm not sure there's anyone keen to pick up the role esp as the Johnson regime could well be in its dying months.... It looks to me like yet again BREXIT has failed again
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Lambeth 7 day case rates per 100k people:

    Current officially published: 1257.3 (7-13/12)
    Highest provisional: >2279.0 (10-16/12, further cases will be added)

    Highest single day new case rate: 532.2
    If repeated for 7 days without further growth: 3725.6

    Given likely confirmation rates 5%+ of Lambeth likely got COVID between 10-16th and still growing.

    I think inner London must hit a natural peak before Christmas at this rate, whatever Christmas effect happens will struggle to get big traction against what has already passed.

    The HSA report on Omicron tracking is also startling. The stated S-dropout Omicron indicator in London on 13/12 was around 44%. On 18/12 every other region other than NE England is already well past that. On that measure, the whole UK is no more than 4-5 days behind London.

    I don't quite see that in the growth figures for say 8/12 in London vs 13/12 in Yorkshire, but that could just be that London had a growing Delta wave in early December and Yorkshire a flat one. Nevertheless, I think other regions could lose a couple of days on the way.

    But it would still mean almost everywhere with Omicron wave onset next week.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    rcs1000 said:

    rpjs said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I know Allison Pearson is not everyone's cuppa tea, but she is absolutely right here


    "My friend’s grandson started nursery last week.
    Out of 13 in the class, five have serious speech delay.
    Lockdown toddlers they didn’t see enough faces, they didn’t socialise enough.
    Those tiny children are a silent rebuke to SAGE.
    #nolockdown"


    https://twitter.com/AllisonPearson/status/1472301352911093763?s=20


    I've heard similar from multiple parents

    I suspect that's more to do with parents spending all their time gazing at their phones instead of talking to their toddlers. Maybe nothing to do with lockdown. Watch parents on any street, in any park: texting, surfing, posting on PB rather than interacting with their kids. A long-term trend, I fear, of delayed language acquisition.
    I have personally seen what lockdown and the rest has done to my teenage kids. It is not good

    I have little doubt it is similarly pernicious, if not worse, for infants and toddlers
    I don't disagree at all about teenagers - lockdown is awful for them.
    But the lives of toddlers hasn't changed so much. Where's your evidence?
    Common sense. Two years of seeing lips and mouths hidden by masks, of seeing a world of faces locked away, of emotions concealed, smiles disguised, reassurance forsaken.

    It cannot be good, it must be bad. Possibly very bad. And then add in all the extra horrible shit of lockdown and lost education....


    Time for wine then sleep. Night night PB
    I was born with congenital cataracts. I was blind until I was three. Yet I learnt to read and write before attending infants’ school.
    There's this "thing" that people have. The way they were brought up is the best way, and any deviation from it (like TV... video games... the Internet... etc.) will cause developmental problems for children.

    Yet the evidence - time and time again - is that it makes bugger all difference.

    People in countries where school starts at seven and those where it starts at four... same educational outcomes.

    People who live in towns and are therefore v. likely to attend pre-school and to socialise early vs those in the countryside where they'll be with their families until formal school... same educational outcomes.

    People whose education was massively impacted by World War Two and the generations either side of it... same educational outcomes.

    You know what, it's been fucking shit for kids. There will be depression. There will be speech impediments. And all that.

    But kids brains are incredibly plastic. Even if they'd missed two full years of school (which they haven't), they'd be fine. Because we're humans and we adapt.
    My dad was a child through the war; his family moved around several times to various part of the country to be near where his dad was stationed. Later, in his pre-teens, he was in hospital for six months with a serious illness.

    He did not go an academic route, but ended up having, I think, a happy life, started a successful business and made a comfortable living.

    From 13 to 25 I had an intermittent health issue that caused me to have several operations, and be in a lot of pain for long periods. It was bad during my GCSE's, where I had an operation just before my exams. I did well. Conversely, I did not have problems for most of my A-levels and really mucked them up.
    ​ I abandoned my uni course largely because of the problems.

    I've had a happy life, and am not exactly living on the streets. I may not have gone into the career I first wanted, but I've enjoyed myself.

    Kids are flexible.
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