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dodgy penalty for Holland

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.

Too right!

So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments

If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.

Omnium said:

If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.

'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.

I've visited Iceland, I found myself thinking it was one of the most beautiful places in the world. An absolutely gorgeous country with incredibly friendly locals and one that more people should visit.

kle4 said:

Pulpstar said:

kle4 said:

Speedy said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.

So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.

Still, could be worse for Remain:

https://twitter.com/LibDemInternat/status/714887744565149696

Yes, the young people love Nick Clegg.

I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.

I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.

Who'd pay to listen to Clegg ?!

...

Oh wait, people actually pay good money to listen to Gordon Flipping Brown..

Now now, we cannot be sure of the motivations - what guarantee is there the people paying actually go along to listen? Maybe they pay for other people to listen to them?

For all I know both are engaging speakers, in fairness.

I know someone who paid close to 11k for Nick Clegg to speak to their firm

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

SandyRentool said:

Speedy said:

kle4 said:

Speedy said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.

So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.

Still, could be worse for Remain:

https://twitter.com/LibDemInternat/status/714887744565149696

Yes, the young people love Nick Clegg.

I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.

I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.

Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?

So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family.
People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.

And don't forget the 30 women, culminating in Mrs Clegg!

It was less than 30. Go with 2.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

I read that as 'spanking' fees

SandyRentool said:

Speedy said:

kle4 said:

Speedy said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.

So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.

Still, could be worse for Remain:

https://twitter.com/LibDemInternat/status/714887744565149696

Yes, the young people love Nick Clegg.

I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.

I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.

Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?

So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family.
People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.

And don't forget the 30 women, culminating in Mrs Clegg!

What are you suggesting?

Clegg, so far as I know, is an honorable man. If we took your life Sandy and portrayed it as a catalogue of forgotten and disappointed partners would that be fair? Perhaps in early life you were often 'childish' - is that a label that sticks?

Omnium said:

If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.

'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.

They were massively leveraged.

Or hugely in debt as normal people would call it.

Freggles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

I read that as 'spanking' fees

Didn't he get a lifetime's worth of that between 2010-15? How much of a sadomasochist could he be.

Danny565 said:

Freggles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

I read that as 'spanking' fees

Didn't he get a lifetime's worth of that between 2010-15? How much of a sadomasochist could he be.

He held a weekly call in show during the height of his unpopularity - if he doesn't enjoy it, he is certainly adept at taking it.

https://twitter.com/BBCSport/status/714910005816897536

TheScreamingEagles said:

Freggles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

I read that as 'spanking' fees

I hope you can afford all the therapy PBers are going to need now.

I'll forward you the invoices

kle4 said:

Danny565 said:

Freggles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

I read that as 'spanking' fees

Didn't he get a lifetime's worth of that between 2010-15? How much of a sadomasochist could he be.

He held a weekly call in show during the height of his unpopularity - if he doesn't enjoy it, he is certainly adept at taking it.

How much was he paid for that show? Or was he doing it for free publicity?

Philip_Thompson said:

Freggles said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.

Too right!

So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments

If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.

If you elect a lefty government then that government can nationalise whatever it wants and ban competitive bidding for government work.

Indeed. EU rules banning State Aid etc would be gone if you believe in State Aid.

Would they still apply in EEA? EFTA?

Good question, I don't know.

http://www.eftasurv.int/state-aid/state-aid-in-the-eea/

Alistair said:

Omnium said:

If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.

'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.

They were massively leveraged.

Or hugely in debt as normal people would call it.

I think the truth is 'poorly advised'.

The fact was there were advisors that surmised that no-one would bother looking at the institutions. And they were right, for a while.

kle4 said:

Danny565 said:

Freggles said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nick Clegg has earned 70k in speaking fees since the election

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711

I read that as 'spanking' fees

Didn't he get a lifetime's worth of that between 2010-15? How much of a sadomasochist could he be.

He held a weekly call in show during the height of his unpopularity - if he doesn't enjoy it, he is certainly adept at taking it.

Iirc That was call Clegg, it wasn't cane Clegg. :-)

oldpolitics said:

Freggles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.

Too right!

So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments

What social class would you be and what is your age?

25-30, graduate level public sector employee (does that make me C1 or B?), North East England

Greece. You should vote Leave in solidarity with our comrades in Greece. We only have an opt-out from the final stage of EMU, and one day, especially if we vote strongly remain, the fiscal rules will come for us, whether Cameron flounced on the last attempt or not.

Also because EU rules are one of the main things presenting us having a regional policy that pushes additional economic growth to areas which have the housing capacity and unemployed labour to handle it, though I agree the current government wouldn't necessarily do that anyway.

Out of interest, would that message change for me, as 25-30, graduate level public sector employee, South West England?

Curious to know how targeted we can get.

SandyRentool said:

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.

Too right!

So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments

Because the EU has demonstrated that it is there to back the interests of big business and big banks ahead of the people of Europe; because it has shown itself to be incompetent in dealing with a humanitarian crisis; because it is controlled by the unelected and unaccountable; because just as it stops Tory governments from being ultra-Thatcherite it stops Labour governments from being truly Socialist; because the Westminster parliament should be sovereign and because it can't even stop the nonsense of shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg every month.

Enough?

Not bad as an argument. I will research the implications for Nissan as that will be a factor

I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.

The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.

FrancisUrquhart said:

The questions nobody wants to ask about Asad Shah’s murder

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/

Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.

Four reasons:
1. There is a direct investigative reason.
2. There is a link investigative reason.
3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure
4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity

England muck it up.

Sean_F said:

I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.

The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.

http://www.conservativehome.com/localgovernment/2016/03/peter-golds-will-we-have-any-viable-election-law-in-the-future.html

peter_from_putney said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

Remi Garde has left Aston Villa... many more to follow no doubt.

Sensible decision by Villa (after picking the wrong man for the job in the first place), they now have first pick so to speak, before further sackings take place at the season's end.

Garde really wasn't the problem I think. More Flabby agbonlahore and his Dubai partying mates. Hopefully Garde can find a proper team to manage.

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."

It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.

Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.

Too right!

So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments

Because the EU has demonstrated that it is there to back the interests of big business and big banks ahead of the people of Europe; because it has shown itself to be incompetent in dealing with a humanitarian crisis; because it is controlled by the unelected and unaccountable; because just as it stops Tory governments from being ultra-Thatcherite it stops Labour governments from being truly Socialist; because the Westminster parliament should be sovereign and because it can't even stop the nonsense of shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg every month.

Enough?

Not bad as an argument. I will research the implications for Nissan as that will be a factor

Last year the UK imported around 2.2 million cars and exported 1.2 million, 57% to the EU. A free market in cars will still exist post-exit.

Which manager will take the hospital pass of Villa I wonder.

Perhaps Curbishley will get that job after all !

TheScreamingEagles said:

NickPalmer said:

I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.

Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.

Nah, nothing will top having to explain to German and American friends exactly what David Cameron was alleged to have done to a dead pig.

And as the late Rob Ford showed us, colourful politicians can be emerge in places you wouldn't expect.

NickPalmer said:

I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.

Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.

Dave's pig story and George and his dominatrix aren't bad.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Y0kel said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The questions nobody wants to ask about Asad Shah’s murder

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/

Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.

Four reasons:
1. There is a direct investigative reason.
2. There is a link investigative reason.
3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure
4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity

Tanveer Ahmed, 32, from Bradford in Yorkshire

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35918547

And there we go. Missed that.

DecrepitJohnL said:

OT the premium bonds prize cut announced today looks at first glance like the Treasury hitting unsophisticated savers, which might be courageous.

A lot of sophisticated savers use premium bonds as a cash reserve

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates

Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.

Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.

Richard_Tyndall said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates

Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.

Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.

It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.

kle4 said:

oldpolitics said:

Freggles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Freggles said:

SandyRentool said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.

If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.

Too right!

So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments

What social class would you be and what is your age?

25-30, graduate level public sector employee (does that make me C1 or B?), North East England

Greece. You should vote Leave in solidarity with our comrades in Greece. We only have an opt-out from the final stage of EMU, and one day, especially if we vote strongly remain, the fiscal rules will come for us, whether Cameron flounced on the last attempt or not.

Also because EU rules are one of the main things presenting us having a regional policy that pushes additional economic growth to areas which have the housing capacity and unemployed labour to handle it, though I agree the current government wouldn't necessarily do that anyway.

Out of interest, would that message change for me, as 25-30, graduate level public sector employee, South West England?

Curious to know how targeted we can get.

Might do. Would probably say more about the countryside - admittedly there are rural areas in the North-East and urban ones in the South-West, but in identity terms one is clearly more urban than the other.

You cannot imagine how freakily microtargeted Remain is, particularly in the context of social media ad buys. 20-40 year old woman who liked a lot of baby photos on Facebook recently? You're getting an advert for EU maternity leave rights. I searched for hotels on the Isle of Wight yesterday and today I got an advert about the EU Clean Beaches directive. I uploaded a cat photo, I got an advert telling me that Leave was putting animal welfare at risk.

Which is all weird. If there's a majority in favour of EU rules then we would surely end up with a Parliament here which set out the same rules. If there isn't, you'd expect a vote for Leave. Unless the British people have some sort of devotion to voting against their own interests and being rescued by foreigners.

glw said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Y0kel said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The questions nobody wants to ask about Asad Shah’s murder

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/

Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.

Four reasons:
1. There is a direct investigative reason.
2. There is a link investigative reason.
3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure
4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity

Tanveer Ahmed, 32, from Bradford in Yorkshire

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35918547

Beat me to it, he's doing his usual hinting at knowing stuff when he knows nothing.

I thought it was more like the Glasgow bin lorry story where certain people on here were furious, just furious that the name and religion of the lorry driver was not being released. They were so angry.

So England have just been beaten at home by a country which lost home and away to Iceland.

Do all those people who were getting so excited after the Germany game NEVER learn ???

nigel4england said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates

Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.

Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.

It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.

It's set up that way to appease the French.

It's not, they don't want to give lots of money to rich farmers, they want to spread the money around as many voting, tractor-owning, potentially-street-blockading farmers as possible.

Philip_Thompson said:

Sean_F said:

I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.

The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.

Is it because the Electoral Court simply needed proof a crime had been committed but the Met needs proof that a crime was committed by a specific individual?

I don't think the Electoral Court found Rahman guilty personally at a criminal standard did he? Simply his campaign as a whole was responsible but the Met needs to prosecute individuals not campaigns.

Or am I being too kind to the Met?

Almost certainly

While on the subject of the Met, it's clear that their treatment of Harvey Proctor has been atrocious, as is their refusal to apologise over it.

edmundintokyo said:

nigel4england said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates

Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.

Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.

It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.

It's set up that way to appease the French.

It's not, they don't want to give lots of money to rich farmers, they want to spread the money around as many voting, tractor-owning, potentially-street-blockading farmers as possible.

Fetch a few cows into Port Talbot steel works and suddenly there would be more state aid than they would know what to do with.

SandyRentool said:

edmundintokyo said:

nigel4england said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

edmundintokyo said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates

Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.

Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.

It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.

It's set up that way to appease the French.

It's not, they don't want to give lots of money to rich farmers, they want to spread the money around as many voting, tractor-owning, potentially-street-blockading farmers as possible.

Fetch a few cows into Port Talbot steel works and suddenly there would be more state aid than they would know what to do with.

Alternatively it could be renamed 'Port Talbot Bank'.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Philip_Thompson said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Casino_Royale said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

YouGov of GB voters

Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...

Total Positive Impact 31%

Total Negative Impact 40%

What is the following?

The economy of the United Kingdom

Fixed my original post now

There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).

They would effect my employer, and I.

In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.

Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.

If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed

So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.

I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.

What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.

I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.

No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.

Thanks, that makes sense.

It makes sense, but it's wrong. We've been through this zillions of times. The idea that we can simply switch from one side of the EEA agreement to the opposite side, without the consent of all parties, is out there with the fairies.

https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/714924327116865536

No- I never learn. I cannot believe that for a few days after Saturday's miracle I dared believe.

another_richard said:

So England have just been beaten at home by a country which lost home and away to Iceland.

Do all those people who were getting so excited after the Germany game NEVER learn ???

NickPalmer said:

I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.

Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.

The LibDems do - Thorpe, Oaten, Opik, Hancock, Rennard.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Looks like we're nationalising Port Talbot.

Blimey

And they were only talking about this on BBC Parliament yesterday.

P.S Have emailed you, thanks again.

England didn't play the Tottenham press tonight. Gave the Dutch too much time. Defence not up to much. Drinkeater on the plane now, surely. Everytime there's a close-up of Vardy I expect to see a little ciggie stub in the side of his mouth. He looks like he should be working the docks. Exceptional speed though.

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Looks like we're nationalising Port Talbot.

Blimey

Do you have a link?

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-03-29/could-port-talbot-be-nationalised/

TheScreamingEagles said:

Looks like we're nationalising Port Talbot.

Blimey

ITN keep saying the Tories sold off the steelworks and now could buy it back and making out like that's humiliating.

Err isn't "buy low, sell high" a generally sound piece of advice? So long as in real terms we re-buy it for less than we sold it then privatisation was absolutely the right move.

Doesn't make renationalisation the right move of course.