We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
Indeed best of both worlds. Given that virtually all cabinet remainers would prefer EEA and virtually all cabinet leavers do too ... and it's the one exit deal that can be easily negotiated within the two year window and before the next general election ... that will almost ceraknly be the outcome anyway.
As TSE himself knows, far better than most, if Cameron had come out for that this referendum wouldn't even be close.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
Isn't the standard response that you're in a dying industry and you should retrain ?
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Sounds a bit like you're trying to rationalise your journey to a Remain vote to me.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Good luck finding a new job! Who could say no to someone who lists "Lord High Constable of England" on their CV
Her whole piece - especially towards the end when she can't understand why Labour politicians are so quiet - is based on the premise that staying in the EU is the most important issue of the time. That view is just not shared by most outside of the Establishment.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
Isn't the standard response that you're in a dying industry and you should retrain ?
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Sounds a bit like you're trying to rationalise your journey to a Remain vote to me.
Or is that unfair?
No, I'm challenging myself. I'm trying to make sure I make the right decision.
In my personal and professional I've made the best decisions when I've done 'opposition prep' which is to see what the other side would say and do to rebut my arguments.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
Aren't we relying on three nations agreeing? It won't be that difficult.
Quite striking polarisation in the Ipsos Mori poll.
Conservative and UKIP supporters break 64/36% for Leave. Labour and Lib Dems break 73/27% for Remain.
18-34 Year olds break 68/21% for Remain. 55+ break 38/54%. 35-54 year olds break 44/46% (the tipping point at which Leave leads is 45 years old and above).
AB's break 61/30% for Remain, and C1's 62/31%. C2's break 32/57% and DE's 37/46%. (I wonder why there should be such a big difference between C1 and C2 voters when their economic circumstances are very similar).
Certainty to vote is 45% among 18-34 year olds, 72% among 35-54, and 79% among 55+
Among AB's it's 74%, 68% among C1's, 65% among C2's and 58% among DE's.
Very very heavy leads for Remain amongst ABC1s though. 30%+??
That's an open and shut case.
Leave can't win on those sorts of numbers and, to make a dent in that, they simply have to deal with the question of the economy.
Fast.
And they need to deal with it by raising the spectre of economic disaster if we remain. I'm sorry if it upsets people's sensitivities, but it's the only effective way.
They need to allay people's fears on the short term risks of being left out in the cold.
They then need to show how much better off people would be with pounds in pockets as a result of quitting CAP, ending EU contributions and striking new trade deals.
I agree membership costs need to be somehow used as an issue; but I think it's more complex to 'weaponise' effectively than it would seem. Essentially it's all debt at the moment, so 'costs' to the exchequer are a very nebulous concept that people don't relate to their own lives. That's why they frequently want the Government to spend more. You can say all the standard stuff about 'this many nurses', but I don't think it penetrates.
If you can think of a suggested way the Government could use that money on an undisputed benefit that doesn't look like a reckless tax bribe, and isn't 'schools n' 'ospitals' type spending, then yes I think it would play well. I suppose beginning to pay off national debt and thus reduce interest payments would be one idea.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
Isn't the standard response that you're in a dying industry and you should retrain ?
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Sounds a bit like you're trying to rationalise your journey to a Remain vote to me.
Or is that unfair?
No, I'm challenging myself. I'm trying to make sure I make the right decision.
In my personal and professional I've made the best decisions when I've done 'opposition prep' which is to see what the other side would say and do to rebut my arguments.
Oh piffle Eagles
your single vote will change nothing
vote for what you actually believe in and live with a clean conscience.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
I'm with Philip mate, exit straight into the EEA. A very easy one and we're already a member, albeit now wrapped up in our EU membership.
We quit the latter but not the former.
I think the Leavers who want a lot more need to recognise that it's the only plausible way to exit a 40+ year long economic union, and get a majority for it.
(I.e. If it doesn't pan out in 10 years time we can seek a more bespoke bilateral deal that suits us better)
I really think Vote Leave needs to start talking about this as a roadmap. Let Leave EU/GO focus on their base separately.
Her whole piece - especially towards the end when she can't understand why Labour politicians are so quiet - is based on the premise that staying in the EU is the most important issue of the time. That view is just not shared by most outside of the Establishment.
But the Labour politicians she's asking about are The Establishment so why are they being so quiet?
Personally I think Cameron is one of the greatest post war PMs possibly only behind Thatcher but won't vote Remain to keep him as he's a lame duck anyway now. That would be like a US Senator voting to reject a constitutional amendment they support because otherwise Obama might resign. The constitution is more important than a politician who is never going to face another election again ...
I do wonder if some Labour Establishment politicians look at the current situation and think "I want to stay in the EU but if the country votes Leave we could see the end of both Cameron and Corbyn" and so are more quiet or apathetic than they would be had they been in power.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
Isn't the standard response that you're in a dying industry and you should retrain ?
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Sounds a bit like you're trying to rationalise your journey to a Remain vote to me.
Or is that unfair?
No, I'm challenging myself. I'm trying to make sure I make the right decision.
In my personal and professional I've made the best decisions when I've done 'opposition prep' which is to see what the other side would say and do to rebut my arguments.
Oh piffle Eagles
your single vote will change nothing
vote for what you actually believe in and live with a clean conscience.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
I'm with Philip mate, exit straight into the EEA. A very easy one and we're already a member, albeit now wrapped up in our EU membership.
We quit the latter but not the former.
I think the Leavers who want a lot more need to recognise that it's the only plausible way to exit a 40+ year long economic union, and get a majority for it.
(I.e. If it doesn't pan out in 10 years time we can seek a more bespoke bilateral deal that suits us better)
I really think Vote Leave needs to start talking about this as a roadmap. Let Leave EU/GO focus on their base separately.
That makes sense. But the political fallout from those who are motivated by the immigration/control of borders issue will be ugly when it sinks in that the EEA cannot facilitate this.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
Isn't the standard response that you're in a dying industry and you should retrain ?
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Sounds a bit like you're trying to rationalise your journey to a Remain vote to me.
Or is that unfair?
No, I'm challenging myself. I'm trying to make sure I make the right decision.
In my personal and professional I've made the best decisions when I've done 'opposition prep' which is to see what the other side would say and do to rebut my arguments.
Oh piffle Eagles
your single vote will change nothing
vote for what you actually believe in and live with a clean conscience.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
Isn't the standard response that you're in a dying industry and you should retrain ?
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Sounds a bit like you're trying to rationalise your journey to a Remain vote to me.
Or is that unfair?
No, I'm challenging myself. I'm trying to make sure I make the right decision.
In my personal and professional I've made the best decisions when I've done 'opposition prep' which is to see what the other side would say and do to rebut my arguments.
Oh piffle Eagles
your single vote will change nothing
vote for what you actually believe in and live with a clean conscience.
One of the many reasons I didn't follow the family tradition and become a Doctor.
Hopefully you're not useless with your tongue??
I have a very talented tongue. Plus I can speak the following languages, English, Urdu, Punjabi French, German, Latin and Greek.
I'm also learning Spanish at the moment.
Either you missed a comma out there by accident or there is a a very strange language out there - Punjabi French.
I did a miss a comma out there.
Mind you, I've heard Punjabi spoken in the broadest Yorkshire accent you can imagine, it was utterly indecipherable, perhaps there's a French version of that.
I agree membership costs need to be somehow used as an issue; but I think it's more complex to 'weaponise' effectively than it would seem. Essentially it's all debt at the moment, so 'costs' to the exchequer are a very nebulous concept that people don't relate to their own lives. That's why they frequently want the Government to spend more. You can say all the standard stuff about 'this many nurses', but I don't think it penetrates.
If you can think of a suggested way the Government could use that money on an undisputed benefit that doesn't look like a reckless tax bribe, and isn't 'schools n' 'ospitals' type spending, then yes I think it would play well. I suppose beginning to pay off national debt and thus reduce interest payments would be one idea.
At the end of the last thread Topping made a claim that he could think of no ways in which the EU prevents us passing our own laws. I gave three examples of areas where things are worse by remaining in the EU.
We can't remove VAT on basic necessities like heating. Nor can we remove it on the sorts of things we want to encourage like brown field developments.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates or families and concentrate them in areas where we as a nation thinkthey would be best used.
We are forced to follow the idiotic and, in my personal experience, dangerous rules on the markings of fire extinguishers which make it more difficult to identify which fire extinguisher is present from a distance.
Three examples out of hundreds of small idiocies imposed by the EU.
I don't think that the vast majority of the public have paid much attention to the EU referendum thus far. People on here seem to be under some misapprehension that the vote isn't almost 3 months away. That's getting on for 3x the length of a General Election campaign and there's another set of elections happening before then. It's perfectly possible in many ways that the polls are simply reflecting fluctuations in the daily news cycle. People aren't interested in spending the next 3 months deciding what they're going to do. They'll think about it closer to the time.
It seems to be a recurring theme of this (and the indyref) of the 'in' side chiding each other for not presenting a positive case but yet failing to use the occasion to advance one. Tony Blair was on the Today programme the other week doing the same.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
One of the many reasons I didn't follow the family tradition and become a Doctor.
Hopefully you're not useless with your tongue??
I have a very talented tongue. Plus I can speak the following languages, English, Urdu, Punjabi French, German, Latin and Greek.
I'm also learning Spanish at the moment.
Either you missed a comma out there by accident or there is a a very strange language out there - Punjabi French.
I did a miss a comma out there.
Mind you, I've heard Punjabi spoken in the broadest Yorkshire accent you can imagine, it was utterly indecipherable, perhaps there's a French version of that.
The thing about "Punjabi" and "Punjab" is that they should be more properly spelt "Panjabi" and "Panjab" (although they would be pronounced in the same way).
Why, Sunil? I hear you ask. Well, it's because the name derives from Ancient Persian "Panj" (Five) and "Ab" (Rivers), given that it is the Land of the Five Rivers.
I've so far seen "Panjabi" spelt as it should be in two locations: The Panjabi Centre in Ilford, and a Panjabi supermarket in northern Coventry.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
One of the many reasons I didn't follow the family tradition and become a Doctor.
Hopefully you're not useless with your tongue??
I have a very talented tongue. Plus I can speak the following languages, English, Urdu, Punjabi French, German, Latin and Greek.
I'm also learning Spanish at the moment.
Either you missed a comma out there by accident or there is a a very strange language out there - Punjabi French.
I did a miss a comma out there.
Mind you, I've heard Punjabi spoken in the broadest Yorkshire accent you can imagine, it was utterly indecipherable, perhaps there's a French version of that.
I like that idea. We should have other mixes. Cornish Arabic? Welsh Swahili?
Kasich has the highest unfavourables with republicans, higher than even Trump. He is more favourable with democrats than republicans, which is natural but it's not a way to stop a party from splitting.
The reason why the GOP is doomed is very simple they have been a failure at governing since the early 90's and are stuck with the stench of corruption and incompetence. Paul Ryan's major speech last week was a prime example, he talked about Reagan and a bill passed by Jack Kemp 37 years ago as it's main feature, talking about being stuck in the past.
Hence they will lose badly, democrat voters are dissatisfied with their party but are content, republican voters absolutely hate their party and everyone and everything it stands for.
They've won the popular vote once in the last 6 attempts.
Kasich has the highest unfavourables with republicans, higher than even Trump. He is more favourable with democrats than republicans, which is natural but it's not a way to stop a party from splitting.
The reason why the GOP is doomed is very simple they have been a failure at governing since the early 90's and are stuck with the stench of corruption and incompetence. Paul Ryan's major speech last week was a prime example, he talked about Reagan and a bill passed by Jack Kemp 37 years ago as it's main feature, talking about being stuck in the past.
Hence they will lose badly, democrat voters are dissatisfied with their party but are content, republican voters absolutely hate their party and everyone and everything it stands for.
They've won the popular vote once in the last 6 attempts.
Though that's artificial cherrypicking only looking at the last 6 attempts, why 6 and not 3 or 9? Besides the popular vote is not a critical thing anyway since campaigns target the swing states.
Plus the reality is that there is a very large personality element involved in Presidential elections. It is a direct election for an individual not just a party and the right (or wrong) individual makes a world of difference.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not
.
I'm .
That makes sense. But the political fallout from those who are motivated by the immigration/control of borders issue will be ugly when it sinks in that the EEA cannot facilitate this.
Even Farage has said the EEA is the immediate holding position.
If Leave EU/GO weren't led by stratospheric wankers (and, to be fair, Vote Leave had a bit more people skills at the top too) an agreement could be struck to run parallel campaigns in alliance with one another where they both agree on EEA/EFTA as the initial "quitting" position.
They both campaign alongside each other in this referendum on a clear, consistent and reassuring common position.
However, whilst Vote Leave would probably leave it there, apres ski, both would agree that Leave EU/GO would probably like to take it further and a second debate/referendum on full independence v. EEA/EFTA would be welcomed a few years down the road.
However, that second debate would never take place unless Leave won, now, and both were convinced EU membership was not the answer for a strong British future.
That would allow a very strong voting coalition, I think.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
This could all be achieved very quickly. We won't have the 'years of uncertainty' that the remainers have been throwing around.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
This could all be achieved very quickly. We won't have the 'years of uncertainty' that the remainers have been throwing around.
Kasich has the highest unfavourables with republicans, higher than even Trump. He is more favourable with democrats than republicans, which is natural but it's not a way to stop a party from splitting.
The reason why the GOP is doomed is very simple they have been a failure at governing since the early 90's and are stuck with the stench of corruption and incompetence. Paul Ryan's major speech last week was a prime example, he talked about Reagan and a bill passed by Jack Kemp 37 years ago as it's main feature, talking about being stuck in the past.
Hence they will lose badly, democrat voters are dissatisfied with their party but are content, republican voters absolutely hate their party and everyone and everything it stands for.
They've won the popular vote once in the last 6 attempts.
Though that's artificial cherrypicking only looking at the last 6 attempts, why 6 and not 3 or 9? Besides the popular vote is not a critical thing anyway since campaigns target the swing states.
Plus the reality is that there is a very large personality element involved in Presidential elections. It is a direct election for an individual not just a party and the right (or wrong) individual makes a world of difference.
My selection of data is impeccably unbiased. Once you start going to far back (to candidates like Bush Snr and Regan) you start to get to guys who are far to far to the left to survive the current Republican primary process.
Unless you think a Republican running on a pro Union, pro illegal immigrant amnesty platform would get the nom these days.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
This could all be achieved very quickly. We won't have the 'years of uncertainty' that the remainers have been throwing around.
Iceland are already there. Their Prime Minister sees a lot of similarities between the UK and Iceland:
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
Aren't those in the EU who make money out of the current arrangement (most of them) equally at risk/held to ransom by it being disrupted - not just by us, but their partners?
They will be at each other like rats in a sack if someone tries to interfere with the existing trade arrangement.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not
.
I'm .
That makes sense. But the political fallout from those who are motivated by the immigration/control of borders issue will be ugly when it sinks in that the EEA cannot facilitate this.
Even Farage has said the EEA is the immediate holding position.
If Leave EU/GO weren't led by stratospheric wankers (and, to be fair, Vote Leave had a bit more people skills at the top too) an agreement could be struck to run parallel campaigns in alliance with one another where they both agree on EEA/EFTA as the initial "quitting" position.
They both campaign alongside each other in this referendum on a clear, consistent and reassuring common position.
However, whilst Vote Leave would probably leave it there, apres ski, both would agree that Leave EU/GO would probably like to take it further and a second debate/referendum on full independence v. EEA/EFTA would be welcomed a few years down the road.
However, that second debate would never take place unless Leave won, now, and both were convinced EU membership was not the answer for a strong British future.
That would allow a very strong voting coalition, I think.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
This could all be achieved very quickly. We won't have the 'years of uncertainty' that the remainers have been throwing around.
Iceland are already there. Their Prime Minister sees a lot of similarities between the UK and Iceland:
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles
Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.
Kasich has the highest unfavourables with republicans, higher than even Trump. He is more favourable with democrats than republicans, which is natural but it's not a way to stop a party from splitting.
The reason why the GOP is doomed is very simple they have been a failure at governing since the early 90's and are stuck with the stench of corruption and incompetence. Paul Ryan's major speech last week was a prime example, he talked about Reagan and a bill passed by Jack Kemp 37 years ago as it's main feature, talking about being stuck in the past.
Hence they will lose badly, democrat voters are dissatisfied with their party but are content, republican voters absolutely hate their party and everyone and everything it stands for.
They've won the popular vote once in the last 6 attempts.
Though that's artificial cherrypicking only looking at the last 6 attempts, why 6 and not 3 or 9? Besides the popular vote is not a critical thing anyway since campaigns target the swing states.
Plus the reality is that there is a very large personality element involved in Presidential elections. It is a direct election for an individual not just a party and the right (or wrong) individual makes a world of difference.
My selection of data is impeccably unbiased. Once you start going to far back (to candidates like Bush Snr and Regan) you start to get to guys who are far to far to the left to survive the current Republican primary process.
Unless you think a Republican running on a pro Union, pro illegal immigrant amnesty platform would get the nom these days.
You've just proved my point, you'its not just about the individuals but you've picked a date that excludes the individuals who won.
Lets look at who the last for nominees have been.
2000 George W Bush - elected initially on a platform of "compassionate Conservative" Skip 2004, incumbent seeking re-election 2008 John McCain [who had been defeated in 2000] - elected as a moderate and war hero. 2012 Mitt Romney [who had been defeated in 2008] - elected as the establishment candidate. 2016 presumably Donald Trump - elected as the anti-establishment anti-immigration candidate.
The individuals keep being very different types of candidates and wings of the party. If Trump loses it will be entirely possible for a loser this time or someone else to get it and win next time.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
ady.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
This could all be achieved very quickly. We won't have the 'years of uncertainty' that the remainers have been throwing around.
Iceland are already there. Their Prime Minister sees a lot of similarities between the UK and Iceland:
Richard_Nabavi's theory that perhaps H&S selfie man was doing it to alert security services I think has been dismantled...did he message a trusted friend saying his is a picture of the terrorist with his suicide vest, alert the police so they can tell the Cypriot authorities what they are facing (or something similar)...NOPE....his message
'You know your boy doesn't f*** about. Turn on the news lad!!!'
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
As long as it's presented as merely one option, I agree. Presented as Leave's 'proposed path' it is wide open to brickbats and attacks, and disagreements within the Leave camp. Leave is a coalition for Leave, and getting tied down to a set post-Leave proposal is to pointlessly play into Remain's hands.
"Ben is a wild man and this is totally in character for him. He was a big rugby guy and very into his banter and didn't have much respect for authority." Mr Innes graduated in environmental science in 2011 and now lives in Leeds and works in health and safety.
His mother, Pauline Innes, was less keen to discuss but pointed out the photograph was not a selfie.
She said: "All we can say is that the picture is clearly not a selfie as everyone has been describing it.
"You can clearly see that it is not Ben who is taking the picture. He's in it but he's not taking it.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
If I were Matthew Elliot, I'd be speaking to key members of the Norwegian, Swiss, Icelandic and Liechtenstein governments now intent getting them to sign-up to a letter (even better, an agreement in principle) to warmly welcome the UK into the EFTA.
As long as it's presented as merely one option, I agree. Presented as Leave's 'proposed path' it is wide open to brickbats and attacks, and disagreements within the Leave camp. Leave is a coalition for Leave, and getting tied down to a set post-Leave proposal is to pointlessly play into Remain's hands.
Thanks. I have addressed just this point downthread.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
WTF is going on? Has his price actually been damaged by the Cruz Sex Scandal not exploding?
Get your shit together 2016 US Presidential Election - Republican Nominee market. Get it together.
Has Cruz come in at all ?
I've basically got those two dutched now.
I don't think you can simultaneously have the Republican Party and a candidate other than Trump. However if the GOP choose to let Trump happen then there's a real risk that he'll get the Presidency. That might be worse.
I'm all in (with my betting funds) on Trump for what it's worth.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in.
Is it possible some of this change in polling is due to the pollsters herding?
You have variations between pollsters, and there is some learned (or hopefully learned) comment in the media that its closer than it looks and differential turnout is going to be a notable player.
If you are sitting in a pollsters management offices do you ignore all this?
Brussels airport bombing: US authorities know exactly who attacker No.3, he of the hat, is. He has been previously recorded. Question is, did the Belgians work it out based on their own research?
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Who'd pay to listen to Clegg ?!
...
Oh wait, people actually pay good money to listen to Gordon Flipping Brown..
C1's 62/31%. C2's break 32/57% (I wonder why there should be such a big difference between C1 and C2 voters when their economic circumstances are very similar).
The stereotypical economic migrant is the 'Polish plumber' not the 'Polish paper-pusher'.
C2s have been the demographic hardest hit by economic migration.
Possible also a residential issue - C2s being more likely to live in working class areas and so affected socially by immigration more than more middle class residential C1s.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Who'd pay to listen to Clegg ?!
...
Oh wait, people actually pay good money to listen to Gordon Flipping Brown..
Now now, we cannot be sure of the motivations - what guarantee is there the people paying actually go along to listen? Maybe they pay for other people to listen to them?
For all I know both are engaging speakers, in fairness.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family. People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family. People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
And don't forget the 30 women, culminating in Mrs Clegg!
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family. People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
There are different levels of feeling sorry for people, it's just an expression, not meant for direct comparison to people with real problems at all times, not does using the expression mean I am elevating his problems, such as they are, above those of other people. If I take your words at face value, we should never feel sorry for anyone who has ever fallen from grace, as they had it good once.
I better not admit I also feel sorry for Brown! I feel he gets more scorn than he deserves, in certain areas at least.
If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.
'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Comments
We're in a booming industry. Funny thing is, about a year the biggest risk to the industry was perceived to be the EU/Eurozone, now it is Brexit.
I'm fully confident that I can get a new job straight away, but I realise not everyone is as intelligent and brilliant as me, it is those poor souls I worry about, and knock on effects, I can see the Manchester Maserati dealership going out of business.
Can you weld ?
One of the many reasons I didn't follow the family tradition and become a Doctor.
Or is that unfair?
Are any of the legal eagles on here specializing in motoring law?
I would like to Vanilla message a question.
This is genuinely 'for a friend'
In my personal and professional I've made the best decisions when I've done 'opposition prep' which is to see what the other side would say and do to rebut my arguments.
Be POSITIVE!
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
If you can think of a suggested way the Government could use that money on an undisputed benefit that doesn't look like a reckless tax bribe, and isn't 'schools n' 'ospitals' type spending, then yes I think it would play well. I suppose beginning to pay off national debt and thus reduce interest payments would be one idea.
your single vote will change nothing
vote for what you actually believe in and live with a clean conscience.
We quit the latter but not the former.
I think the Leavers who want a lot more need to recognise that it's the only plausible way to exit a 40+ year long economic union, and get a majority for it.
(I.e. If it doesn't pan out in 10 years time we can seek a more bespoke bilateral deal that suits us better)
I really think Vote Leave needs to start talking about this as a roadmap. Let Leave EU/GO focus on their base separately.
I'm also learning Spanish at the moment.
Personally I think Cameron is one of the greatest post war PMs possibly only behind Thatcher but won't vote Remain to keep him as he's a lame duck anyway now. That would be like a US Senator voting to reject a constitutional amendment they support because otherwise Obama might resign. The constitution is more important than a politician who is never going to face another election again ...
I do wonder if some Labour Establishment politicians look at the current situation and think "I want to stay in the EU but if the country votes Leave we could see the end of both Cameron and Corbyn" and so are more quiet or apathetic than they would be had they been in power.
90%+ of them want to Remain and it'll provide us all with many, many months of Grade A hilarity if Leave win.
Mind you, I've heard Punjabi spoken in the broadest Yorkshire accent you can imagine, it was utterly indecipherable, perhaps there's a French version of that.
We can't remove VAT on basic necessities like heating. Nor can we remove it on the sorts of things we want to encourage like brown field developments.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates or families and concentrate them in areas where we as a nation thinkthey would be best used.
We are forced to follow the idiotic and, in my personal experience, dangerous rules on the markings of fire extinguishers which make it more difficult to identify which fire extinguisher is present from a distance.
Three examples out of hundreds of small idiocies imposed by the EU.
Why, Sunil? I hear you ask. Well, it's because the name derives from Ancient Persian "Panj" (Five) and "Ab" (Rivers), given that it is the Land of the Five Rivers.
I've so far seen "Panjabi" spelt as it should be in two locations: The Panjabi Centre in Ilford, and a Panjabi supermarket in northern Coventry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_648
Plus the reality is that there is a very large personality element involved in Presidential elections. It is a direct election for an individual not just a party and the right (or wrong) individual makes a world of difference.
#REMAIN 40 (+3)
#LEAVE 37 (-1)
Fieldwork 17th-22nd March
#EUreferendum
BE LEAVE!!!!
If Leave EU/GO weren't led by stratospheric wankers (and, to be fair, Vote Leave had a bit more people skills at the top too) an agreement could be struck to run parallel campaigns in alliance with one another where they both agree on EEA/EFTA as the initial "quitting" position.
They both campaign alongside each other in this referendum on a clear, consistent and reassuring common position.
However, whilst Vote Leave would probably leave it there, apres ski, both would agree that Leave EU/GO would probably like to take it further and a second debate/referendum on full independence v. EEA/EFTA would be welcomed a few years down the road.
However, that second debate would never take place unless Leave won, now, and both were convinced EU membership was not the answer for a strong British future.
That would allow a very strong voting coalition, I think.
We won't have the 'years of uncertainty' that the remainers have been throwing around.
Unless you think a Republican running on a pro Union, pro illegal immigrant amnesty platform would get the nom these days.
Remain: 41% (-3)
Leave: 45% (+4)
(via BMG online / 24 - 29 Mar)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Mi-cfrIrU
(Although I think we'd have to reassure we wouldn't screw them over - as we have, shamefully, done so with cod and banking in the past)
"So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izkYlTVnpwQ
They will be at each other like rats in a sack if someone tries to interfere with the existing trade arrangement.
I can imagine you in a 1960's pop group playing the drums, singing, "I'm a Be-Leaver"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfuBREMXxts
The one in the curry house with the kids scared of the cupboard monster.
Lets look at who the last for nominees have been.
2000 George W Bush - elected initially on a platform of "compassionate Conservative"
Skip 2004, incumbent seeking re-election
2008 John McCain [who had been defeated in 2000] - elected as a moderate and war hero.
2012 Mitt Romney [who had been defeated in 2008] - elected as the establishment candidate.
2016 presumably Donald Trump - elected as the anti-establishment anti-immigration candidate.
The individuals keep being very different types of candidates and wings of the party. If Trump loses it will be entirely possible for a loser this time or someone else to get it and win next time.
EFTA > EU
@AidanKerrPol: You're a Tory. No, you're a Tory. You're a Tory. No, you're a Tory. You're a Tory. No, you're a Tory. You're a Tory. #ScotDebates
WTF is going on? Has his price actually been damaged by the Cruz Sex Scandal not exploding?
Get your shit together 2016 US Presidential Election - Republican Nominee market. Get it together.
'You know your boy doesn't f*** about. Turn on the news lad!!!'
I've been in bed ill for the last week so have not been following the news that assiduously.
I am incredibly bored.
I've basically got those two dutched now.
Vardy!!!
I'm all in (with my betting funds) on Trump for what it's worth.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in.
Still, could be worse for Remain:
https://twitter.com/LibDemInternat/status/714887744565149696
You have variations between pollsters, and there is some learned (or hopefully learned) comment in the media that its closer than it looks and differential turnout is going to be a notable player.
If you are sitting in a pollsters management offices do you ignore all this?
Brussels airport bombing: US authorities know exactly who attacker No.3, he of the hat, is. He has been previously recorded. Question is, did the Belgians work it out based on their own research?
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
...
Oh wait, people actually pay good money to listen to Gordon Flipping Brown..
England are 11 to win 3-0 with Betfair Exchange. Seems like a value bet.
C2s have been the demographic hardest hit by economic migration.
Possible also a residential issue - C2s being more likely to live in working class areas and so affected socially by immigration more than more middle class residential C1s.
For all I know both are engaging speakers, in fairness.
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family.
People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
I better not admit I also feel sorry for Brown! I feel he gets more scorn than he deserves, in certain areas at least.
Re that poor murdered shopkeeper in Scotland.
'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.