"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
What social class would you be and what is your age?
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
What social class would you be and what is your age?
25-30, graduate level public sector employee (does that make me C1 or B?), North East England
If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.
'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.
I've visited Iceland, I found myself thinking it was one of the most beautiful places in the world. An absolutely gorgeous country with incredibly friendly locals and one that more people should visit.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.
If you elect a lefty government then that government can nationalise whatever it wants and ban competitive bidding for government work.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Who'd pay to listen to Clegg ?!
...
Oh wait, people actually pay good money to listen to Gordon Flipping Brown..
Now now, we cannot be sure of the motivations - what guarantee is there the people paying actually go along to listen? Maybe they pay for other people to listen to them?
For all I know both are engaging speakers, in fairness.
I know someone who paid close to 11k for Nick Clegg to speak to their firm
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Believe in DEMOCRACY! Believe in FREEDOM! Believe in SOVEREIGNTY! Believe in THE POUND!
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Believe in DEMOCRACY! Believe in FREEDOM! Believe in SOVEREIGNTY! Believe in THE POUND!
but most of all:
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
If we leave the EU and Scotland leaves the Union can we have the Barnett formula applied to the North
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family. People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
And don't forget the 30 women, culminating in Mrs Clegg!
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.
If you elect a lefty government then that government can nationalise whatever it wants and ban competitive bidding for government work.
Indeed. EU rules banning State Aid etc would be gone if you believe in State Aid.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Why would anyone fell sorry for him, how many people do you know who had a fabulous career with large salaries and a guaranteed pension, being a Brussels bureaucrat in his 20's, MEP in his 30's, MP and Party Leader and Deputy PM in his 40's ?
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family. People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
And don't forget the 30 women, culminating in Mrs Clegg!
What are you suggesting?
Clegg, so far as I know, is an honorable man. If we took your life Sandy and portrayed it as a catalogue of forgotten and disappointed partners would that be fair? Perhaps in early life you were often 'childish' - is that a label that sticks?
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
So he ruined his party, his reputation and the country a bit, but no one should feel sorry for him or his family. People should feel sorry for his victims, not for him.
His MP victims decided to leave him in place. Fools.
If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.
'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.
If you elect a lefty government then that government can nationalise whatever it wants and ban competitive bidding for government work.
Indeed. EU rules banning State Aid etc would be gone if you believe in State Aid.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.
If you elect a lefty government then that government can nationalise whatever it wants and ban competitive bidding for government work.
Indeed. EU rules banning State Aid etc would be gone if you believe in State Aid.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
What social class would you be and what is your age?
25-30, graduate level public sector employee (does that make me C1 or B?), North East England
Greece. You should vote Leave in solidarity with our comrades in Greece. We only have an opt-out from the final stage of EMU, and one day, especially if we vote strongly remain, the fiscal rules will come for us, whether Cameron flounced on the last attempt or not.
Also because EU rules are one of the main things presenting us having a regional policy that pushes additional economic growth to areas which have the housing capacity and unemployed labour to handle it, though I agree the current government wouldn't necessarily do that anyway.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Because the EU has demonstrated that it is there to back the interests of big business and big banks ahead of the people of Europe; because it has shown itself to be incompetent in dealing with a humanitarian crisis; because it is controlled by the unelected and unaccountable; because just as it stops Tory governments from being ultra-Thatcherite it stops Labour governments from being truly Socialist; because the Westminster parliament should be sovereign and because it can't even stop the nonsense of shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg every month.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
If you elect a lefty government then that government will be responsible for the country and not passing the buck by saying "the EU makes us do this" for policies you dislike.
If you elect a lefty government then that government can nationalise whatever it wants and ban competitive bidding for government work.
Indeed. EU rules banning State Aid etc would be gone if you believe in State Aid.
If you visit Iceland then you find yourself wondering how on earth it's a country at all - it seems so small.
'Baffling beyond belief' is the way I'd describe the substantial financial muscle that a couple of Icelandic institutions exhibited in the years before 2007.
They were massively leveraged.
Or hugely in debt as normal people would call it.
I think the truth is 'poorly advised'.
The fact was there were advisors that surmised that no-one would bother looking at the institutions. And they were right, for a while.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Or does it protect big business at the expense of small business? Big agri at the expense of small farms and co-ops? The EU is not on the side of the little guy.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
What social class would you be and what is your age?
25-30, graduate level public sector employee (does that make me C1 or B?), North East England
Greece. You should vote Leave in solidarity with our comrades in Greece. We only have an opt-out from the final stage of EMU, and one day, especially if we vote strongly remain, the fiscal rules will come for us, whether Cameron flounced on the last attempt or not.
Also because EU rules are one of the main things presenting us having a regional policy that pushes additional economic growth to areas which have the housing capacity and unemployed labour to handle it, though I agree the current government wouldn't necessarily do that anyway.
Out of interest, would that message change for me, as 25-30, graduate level public sector employee, South West England?
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Isn't that because money is going to farmers already and if subsidies were cut to rich farmers then the UK would lose out even more than we already do from the CAP?
Outside the CAP we could switch position on this without shooting ourselves in the head at the same time.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Because the EU has demonstrated that it is there to back the interests of big business and big banks ahead of the people of Europe; because it has shown itself to be incompetent in dealing with a humanitarian crisis; because it is controlled by the unelected and unaccountable; because just as it stops Tory governments from being ultra-Thatcherite it stops Labour governments from being truly Socialist; because the Westminster parliament should be sovereign and because it can't even stop the nonsense of shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg every month.
Enough?
Not bad as an argument. I will research the implications for Nissan as that will be a factor
I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.
The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.
Remi Garde has left Aston Villa... many more to follow no doubt.
Sensible decision by Villa (after picking the wrong man for the job in the first place), they now have first pick so to speak, before further sackings take place at the season's end.
Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.
Four reasons: 1. There is a direct investigative reason. 2. There is a link investigative reason. 3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure 4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
I have the suspicion that most Labour voters are only in favour of Remain because that is the party line, and the party line is there only because most Labour voters back Remain, even Corbyn would probably back Leave if he wasn't party leader.
So they end up verbally supporting something that they don't believe in it.
I actually feel sorry for the bloke - he'll be mocked and treated as poisonous this entire parliament if he tries to speak out on something, but he cannot just quit as chances are the LDs would lose the by-election and just damage the party further. What a waste of 4 years may lie ahead.
I suppose speaking fees and the like may help dull the pain a bit though.
Who'd pay to listen to Clegg ?!
...
Oh wait, people actually pay good money to listen to Gordon Flipping Brown..
Now now, we cannot be sure of the motivations - what guarantee is there the people paying actually go along to listen? Maybe they pay for other people to listen to them?
For all I know both are engaging speakers, in fairness.
I know someone who paid close to 11k for Nick Clegg to speak to their firm
I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.
The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.
Is it because the Electoral Court simply needed proof a crime had been committed but the Met needs proof that a crime was committed by a specific individual?
I don't think the Electoral Court found Rahman guilty personally at a criminal standard did he? Simply his campaign as a whole was responsible but the Met needs to prosecute individuals not campaigns.
I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.
The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.
Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.
Four reasons: 1. There is a direct investigative reason. 2. There is a link investigative reason. 3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure 4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
Remi Garde has left Aston Villa... many more to follow no doubt.
Sensible decision by Villa (after picking the wrong man for the job in the first place), they now have first pick so to speak, before further sackings take place at the season's end.
Garde really wasn't the problem I think. More Flabby agbonlahore and his Dubai partying mates. Hopefully Garde can find a proper team to manage.
I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.
The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.
Weren't the Met plods very eager to threaten those individuals who exposed the electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets ?
There are many similarities between the Met's behaviour in Tower Hamlets and the South Yorkshire plods in Rotherham.
And beyond them the Home Office and the alphabet soup of regulatory bodies doing their best to look the other way.
"Let’s be brutally honest: this remain campaign is failing" Jackie Ashley "So that leaves us with Alan Johnson, a thoroughly amiable man who has excluded himself from frontline politics. He should be angry and passionate; at meetings every night; demanding airtime; finding soapbox stunts to interest the cameras; drenching social media with fighting talk. Instead he’s calm, quiet, cogent – and losing."
It will be Labour that loses to Brexit.
Labour are rather anonymous and irrelevant regarding the EUref debate.
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
Because the EU has demonstrated that it is there to back the interests of big business and big banks ahead of the people of Europe; because it has shown itself to be incompetent in dealing with a humanitarian crisis; because it is controlled by the unelected and unaccountable; because just as it stops Tory governments from being ultra-Thatcherite it stops Labour governments from being truly Socialist; because the Westminster parliament should be sovereign and because it can't even stop the nonsense of shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg every month.
Enough?
Not bad as an argument. I will research the implications for Nissan as that will be a factor
Last year the UK imported around 2.2 million cars and exported 1.2 million, 57% to the EU. A free market in cars will still exist post-exit.
I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.
Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.
I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.
Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.
Nah, nothing will top having to explain to German and American friends exactly what David Cameron was alleged to have done to a dead pig.
I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.
Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.
Nah, nothing will top having to explain to German and American friends exactly what David Cameron was alleged to have done to a dead pig.
And as the late Rob Ford showed us, colourful politicians can be emerge in places you wouldn't expect.
Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.
Four reasons: 1. There is a direct investigative reason. 2. There is a link investigative reason. 3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure 4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.
Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.
Dave's pig story and George and his dominatrix aren't bad.
Philip Thompson et al, Peter Golds has repeatedly been told "it's a cultural matter" when he has complained to the Met about electoral malpractice in Tower Hamlets. So, I'd say this is a case of misconduct in public office.
Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.
Four reasons: 1. There is a direct investigative reason. 2. There is a link investigative reason. 3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure 4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
Philip Thompson et al, Peter Golds has repeatedly been told "it's a cultural matter" when he has complained to the Met about electoral malpractice in Tower Hamlets. So, I'd say this is a case of misconduct in public office.
Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.
Four reasons: 1. There is a direct investigative reason. 2. There is a link investigative reason. 3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure 4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
Beat me to it, he's doing his usual hinting at knowing stuff when he knows nothing.
Deary me. Names often get out before people are charged and given the nature of the case its surprising that it didn't. Bear in mind the incident was several days ago and the BBC report 5 hours ago.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.
It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.
For those interested in changing electoral patterns it seems Derbyshire has swung strongly to the Conservatives during our lifetimes:
1951 8 Lab MPs 2 Con MPs Lab county vote lead of 105,516 1970 6 Lab MPs 4 Con MPs Lab county vote lead of 56,840 1979 6 Lab MPs 4 Con MPs Lab county vote lead of 24,281 1992 6 Con MPs 4 Lab MPs Lab county vote lead of 11,153 2015 7 Con MPs 4 Lab MPs Con county vote lead of 14,926
The second largest block of voters are Labour supporters. We could see turnout from these voters under 50%. Yet they should be the largest block of voters turning out for REMAIN.
If Labour turnout is under 50% then it's very possible for Labour Leave to come very close to Labour Remain. Vote Leave (as a Labour Leave) to both leave the EU and remove Cameron must be seen as a win/win.
Too right!
So tell me why I as a lefty should vote Leave. I'm genuinely interested. Seems to me Brussels acts as a brake on the turbo Thatcherite instincts of all governments
What social class would you be and what is your age?
25-30, graduate level public sector employee (does that make me C1 or B?), North East England
Greece. You should vote Leave in solidarity with our comrades in Greece. We only have an opt-out from the final stage of EMU, and one day, especially if we vote strongly remain, the fiscal rules will come for us, whether Cameron flounced on the last attempt or not.
Also because EU rules are one of the main things presenting us having a regional policy that pushes additional economic growth to areas which have the housing capacity and unemployed labour to handle it, though I agree the current government wouldn't necessarily do that anyway.
Out of interest, would that message change for me, as 25-30, graduate level public sector employee, South West England?
Curious to know how targeted we can get.
Might do. Would probably say more about the countryside - admittedly there are rural areas in the North-East and urban ones in the South-West, but in identity terms one is clearly more urban than the other.
You cannot imagine how freakily microtargeted Remain is, particularly in the context of social media ad buys. 20-40 year old woman who liked a lot of baby photos on Facebook recently? You're getting an advert for EU maternity leave rights. I searched for hotels on the Isle of Wight yesterday and today I got an advert about the EU Clean Beaches directive. I uploaded a cat photo, I got an advert telling me that Leave was putting animal welfare at risk.
Which is all weird. If there's a majority in favour of EU rules then we would surely end up with a Parliament here which set out the same rules. If there isn't, you'd expect a vote for Leave. Unless the British people have some sort of devotion to voting against their own interests and being rescued by foreigners.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.
It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.
Isn't it odd that the name of his suspected killer hasn't been released.
Four reasons: 1. There is a direct investigative reason. 2. There is a link investigative reason. 3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure 4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
Beat me to it, he's doing his usual hinting at knowing stuff when he knows nothing.
I thought it was more like the Glasgow bin lorry story where certain people on here were furious, just furious that the name and religion of the lorry driver was not being released. They were so angry.
Isn't that because money is going to farmers already and if subsidies were cut to rich farmers then the UK would lose out even more than we already do from the CAP?
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.
It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.
It's set up that way to appease the French.
It's not, they don't want to give lots of money to rich farmers, they want to spread the money around as many voting, tractor-owning, potentially-street-blockading farmers as possible.
I can't link at the moment, but there's an excellent article from Cllr. Peter Golds on Con Home, about the failure of the Met (how often do the words "failure of the Met" come up) to investigate electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets.
The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.
Is it because the Electoral Court simply needed proof a crime had been committed but the Met needs proof that a crime was committed by a specific individual?
I don't think the Electoral Court found Rahman guilty personally at a criminal standard did he? Simply his campaign as a whole was responsible but the Met needs to prosecute individuals not campaigns.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.
It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.
It's set up that way to appease the French.
It's not, they don't want to give lots of money to rich farmers, they want to spread the money around as many voting, tractor-owning, potentially-street-blockading farmers as possible.
Fetch a few cows into Port Talbot steel works and suddenly there would be more state aid than they would know what to do with.
We can't remove farm subsidies from very wealthy agricultural conglomerates
Channeling subsidies to rich farmers is a British objective. If the British switched sides on this it would probably happen.
Nope. It is only that way because it is how the CAP system is set up. Outside the EU we could devise rules that help those farmers who actually need support.
It's not set up that way by a random cosmic event, it's set up that way by negotiations, and in those negotiations a bunch of other member states advocate things like "caps" and "degressivity" to avoid giving rich farmers big subsidies and the British say no or insist on watering them down to nothing.
It's set up that way to appease the French.
It's not, they don't want to give lots of money to rich farmers, they want to spread the money around as many voting, tractor-owning, potentially-street-blockading farmers as possible.
Fetch a few cows into Port Talbot steel works and suddenly there would be more state aid than they would know what to do with.
Alternatively it could be renamed 'Port Talbot Bank'.
Philip Thompson et al, Peter Golds has repeatedly been told "it's a cultural matter" when he has complained to the Met about electoral malpractice in Tower Hamlets. So, I'd say this is a case of misconduct in public office.
Elections are not cultural FFS ...
Ah, but where a lot of these people hail from electoral fraud and corruption are. Who cares about the law of the land when cultural sensitivities need to be observed.
Do you think Britain leaving the European Union would have a positive or negative impact on the following, or would it have no impact...
Total Positive Impact 31%
Total Negative Impact 40%
What is the following?
The economy of the United Kingdom
Fixed my original post now
There almost certainly would be some negatives, but I'm fairly confident they won't affect me (or anyone I know/care about).
They would effect my employer, and I.
In all seriousness, I'm sure you'll cope.
Not really, the industry we're closely connected to is dependent on the financial passport.
If we don't get that as part of Brexit, then clients and the industry is screwed
So back the EEA/EFTA option then, like many of us Leavers.
I am, but these things take time, and I'm worried about the gap between us leaving the EU and the new stuff kicking in.
What gap? It won't take two years to negotiate EEA membership. It is the only viable solution in the time frame permitted. Besides there is no possible way the government would seek reelection having failed to secure a deal and get it in place already.
I know, but aren't we reliant on lots of other countries agreeing, it only takes one to throw a Spaniard into the works.
No. Not if we were to move straight from the EU to EFTA. We would only need the agreement of the EFTA members. We would remain members of the EEA.
Thanks, that makes sense.
It makes sense, but it's wrong. We've been through this zillions of times. The idea that we can simply switch from one side of the EEA agreement to the opposite side, without the consent of all parties, is out there with the fairies.
Kurds apparently have taken Ash Shaddadi...Clearly regime and Kurds are moving in to clear out ISIS from Deir ez-Zur, while trying to close up the gap in the North, meaning they would Raqqa surrounded (albeit by surrounded mean 100's of miles away).
I see that one of lawyers acting for Lewandowski (Trump's campaign manager accused of battery of a reporter) was himself previously accused of biting a stripper.
Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.
The LibDems do - Thorpe, Oaten, Opik, Hancock, Rennard.
England didn't play the Tottenham press tonight. Gave the Dutch too much time. Defence not up to much. Drinkeater on the plane now, surely. Everytime there's a close-up of Vardy I expect to see a little ciggie stub in the side of his mouth. He looks like he should be working the docks. Exceptional speed though.
ITN keep saying the Tories sold off the steelworks and now could buy it back and making out like that's humiliating.
Err isn't "buy low, sell high" a generally sound piece of advice? So long as in real terms we re-buy it for less than we sold it then privatisation was absolutely the right move.
Doesn't make renationalisation the right move of course.
Comments
Believe in FREEDOM!
Believe in SOVEREIGNTY!
Believe in THE POUND!
but most of all:
Believe in BRITAIN!
Be LEAVE!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nick-clegg-pockets-36660-giving-7616711
Clegg, so far as I know, is an honorable man. If we took your life Sandy and portrayed it as a catalogue of forgotten and disappointed partners would that be fair? Perhaps in early life you were often 'childish' - is that a label that sticks?
Or hugely in debt as normal people would call it.
Also because EU rules are one of the main things presenting us having a regional policy that pushes additional economic growth to areas which have the housing capacity and unemployed labour to handle it, though I agree the current government wouldn't necessarily do that anyway.
Enough?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLA7snH_wIw
The fact was there were advisors that surmised that no-one would bother looking at the institutions. And they were right, for a while.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/
Curious to know how targeted we can get.
Outside the CAP we could switch position on this without shooting ourselves in the head at the same time.
The Electoral Court that overturned Lutfur Rahman's election made findings based on the criminal standard of proof, but the Keystone Cops can't find any evidence of electoral malpractice.
Four reasons:
1. There is a direct investigative reason.
2. There is a link investigative reason.
3. They have found the suspect a compliant figure
4. Perceived 'Political' sensitivity
I don't think the Electoral Court found Rahman guilty personally at a criminal standard did he? Simply his campaign as a whole was responsible but the Met needs to prosecute individuals not campaigns.
Or am I being too kind to the Met?
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35918547
There are many similarities between the Met's behaviour in Tower Hamlets and the South Yorkshire plods in Rotherham.
And beyond them the Home Office and the alphabet soup of regulatory bodies doing their best to look the other way.
Really, British politicians trying to be colourful should Just. Give. Up. We can't compete.
Perhaps Curbishley will get that job after all !
Names often get out before people are charged and given the nature of the case its surprising that it didn't. Bear in mind the incident was several days ago and the BBC report 5 hours ago.
1951 8 Lab MPs 2 Con MPs Lab county vote lead of 105,516
1970 6 Lab MPs 4 Con MPs Lab county vote lead of 56,840
1979 6 Lab MPs 4 Con MPs Lab county vote lead of 24,281
1992 6 Con MPs 4 Lab MPs Lab county vote lead of 11,153
2015 7 Con MPs 4 Lab MPs Con county vote lead of 14,926
You cannot imagine how freakily microtargeted Remain is, particularly in the context of social media ad buys. 20-40 year old woman who liked a lot of baby photos on Facebook recently? You're getting an advert for EU maternity leave rights. I searched for hotels on the Isle of Wight yesterday and today I got an advert about the EU Clean Beaches directive. I uploaded a cat photo, I got an advert telling me that Leave was putting animal welfare at risk.
Which is all weird. If there's a majority in favour of EU rules then we would surely end up with a Parliament here which set out the same rules. If there isn't, you'd expect a vote for Leave. Unless the British people have some sort of devotion to voting against their own interests and being rescued by foreigners.
Do all those people who were getting so excited after the Germany game NEVER learn ???
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/714919101869789185
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLA7snH_wIw
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
Blimey
What is the EU tariff on Chinese dumping? And the non-EU United States tariff?
http://www.ekathimerini.com/207441/article/ekathimerini/business/tax-authorities-to-monitor-greeks-bank-accounts-across-the-european-union?utm_campaign=Contact+SNS+For+More+Referrer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=snsanalytics
No way this would happen if there wasn't a referendum on. The government's entire economic policy is now based on trying to buy votes in June.
P.S Have emailed you, thanks again.
Err isn't "buy low, sell high" a generally sound piece of advice? So long as in real terms we re-buy it for less than we sold it then privatisation was absolutely the right move.
Doesn't make renationalisation the right move of course.