politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum polling is getting much tighter. Gone are the double digit phone poll leads
After a months of very large REMAIN leads in the phone polls we’ve now had three in the past week which are all showing that the race is getting much tighter. Ipsos and ComRes have 8% REMAIN leads while Survation has it at 11% – all very similar.
Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-
1. The migration crisis 2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
That different pollsters view the effect of turnout differently suggests to me they don't really know what's going on. This is another area to keep an eye on with regards to possible herding.
No, as I said on the previous thread the polling indicates this is already as close as Jack's Arse with a trend towards it getting closer yet. If Leave could manage to sound coherent even for a couple of days we could see the equivalent of the famous Yougov poll.
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles
Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-
1. The migration crisis 2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
I would also add that Remain's "Project Fear" style of campaigning is pushing away Labour voters.
Rolling out mega-rich CEOs to whine about how their profit margins are going to get hit, just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles
Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.
Osborne's unravelling will have made an impact. I think he's the one behind Remain more than Dave to be honest - and will have strongarmed a lot of colleagues into that camp (Javid?). He used to be a somewhat safe pair of hands managing the money reasonably well under difficult circumstances. Just lately he has morphed into a white cat stroking evil psychopath who spends his days plotting how to render the poor destitute so that his billionaire buddies can get a deeper tax cut whilst selling out to the EU machine - or something like this. He's re-nastified the party. Every day he is there nastifies the Remain case.
I suspect Dave, utterly naively, thought he could fight a good fight, win clean and let the country and the party move on. In his dreams. The referendum is going to cause lasting and insoluble divisions. He could have won clean if he were on the right side of the argument - but he's opted for the establishment.
The weather is getting much warmer. Let's watch the migrant flow rate across the water. It won't be going down!
Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-
1. The migration crisis 2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
I would also add that Remain's "Project Fear" style of campaigning is pushing away Labour voters.
Rolling out mega-rich CEOs whining about how their profit margins are going to get hit just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
Ooh, so can the nation pin the blame of Leave on Ed Miliband as well! Without his changes to the leadership elections we would have got someone like Yvette or Burnham as leader who would be giving a full-throated lefty argument for remain, instead we have Corbyn phoning it in.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-
1. The migration crisis 2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
I would also add that Remain's "Project Fear" style of campaigning is pushing away Labour voters.
Rolling out mega-rich CEOs to whine about how their profit margins are going to get hit, just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-
1. The migration crisis 2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
3. GO turning out to be less the titan of chancellors that TSE would have use believe, and more a lucky brownite meddler, whose luck ran out.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Last Summer, it looked like it would be a walk in the park for Remain. Even if MORI's 44% lead for Remain was an outlier, all the other polling companies were putting the lead in double figures. I think two events have shifted things the other way:-
1. The migration crisis 2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
Almost certainly not true but I'd love to see some classically British behaviour of more people moving to Leave the more ludicrous the scare stories by Remain become - in protest at being taken for fools.
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles
Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.
Seriously, I am for leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
Agreed. A lot of Leavers betraying their inner anger and frustration. Me - I think Remain will probably sneak it. But that isn't going to be the end of the story! We'll have another referendum and another until we get the right answer. Or the unfixed Eurozone will collapse first and it will all be moot. The sky won't fall in on the 24th June whatever we choose.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
Heh. How do you see Wisconsin going ?
I would guess Bernie? Not a blowout but maybe by about 5/6% or so.
Personally I have a sneaky feeling New York will be much closer than the polls are showing, though Clinton will probably edge it.
If that is seriously the case then he is a total fool.
It was more the expectation the Tory leavers would be around 80MPs, the likes of IDS, Grayling, Holloborne and Bone, you know voter repellents.
It is nearly half the Parliamentary Party, and loyalists like Gove are for Leave that have surprised Dave.
Gove on his own may have been a surprise, but surely he must have realised that the Tories were ferociously anti-EU. It's why the referendum is happening in the first place, after all. I guess if he so badly misread his own party it is not a huge surprise he failed to see how immigration was always going to put the vote on a knife-edge.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Mr. F, better a pariah than chained to the eurozone by the neck.
There's a risk either way. I'd sooner we take the risky option which gives us the power to mitigate it and exploit opportunities in our favour, as opposed to the risky option which puts us under the yoke of Brussels.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Runnymede not the last time an opt-out from European integration proved wise.
Osborne's unravelling will have made an impact. I think he's the one behind Remain more than Dave to be honest - and will have strongarmed a lot of colleagues into that camp (Javid?). He used to be a somewhat safe pair of hands managing the money reasonably well under difficult circumstances. Just lately he has morphed into a white cat stroking evil psychopath who spends his days plotting how to render the poor destitute so that his billionaire buddies can get a deeper tax cut whilst selling out to the EU machine - or something like this. He's re-nastified the party. Every day he is there nastifies the Remain case.
I suspect Dave, utterly naively, thought he could fight a good fight, win clean and let the country and the party move on. In his dreams. The referendum is going to cause lasting and insoluble divisions. He could have won clean if he were on the right side of the argument - but he's opted for the establishment.
The weather is getting much warmer. Let's watch the migrant flow rate across the water. It won't be going down!
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
It seems rather silly to claim that Switzerland offering free medical treatment to EEA citizens has nothing to do with the EU.
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave"
No it won't. This is another myth that got killed long ago in spite of some people still trying to repeat it. There are 37 countries in the ERASMUS programme and only 28 in the EU (31 in the EEA). Obviously simple maths tells you that being a member of the EU or the EEA is not a prerequisite for being in the ERASMUS programme.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
There is plenty of that all around, the relentless hammering of people like Morgan is unattractive in the same way that kicking a puppy is, but the endless tedious Cameron fanboi ramping is just as boring and repellant, if I want to know the government view I only have to go to their website I dont need half a dozen people droning on here about how the government can do no wrong, and comically failing to see any fault in the current handling of the EU Referedum by HMG in the teeth of extensive evidence that is might be suboptimal for many voters.
But the all time turn-off is the six-form common room debaters that think the peak of witty repartee is to look at someone's detailed posting, choose the most implausible possible reading of it and then reply with a fatuous one liner like "So you favour executing alcoholics do you?" Blurgh
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave. Colossal waste of money of course, but so are free TV licences for millionaires. " ~ Freggles
Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
In that case the obvious answer is to ask Richard not to keep defending the indefensible, not to criticise those who point out the idiocies of her speech.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
Personally, I would like a filter where you have the option to "hide" all EU-related posts.
Heh. How do you see Wisconsin going ?
I would guess Bernie? Not a blowout but maybe by about 5/6% or so.
Personally I have a sneaky feeling New York will be much closer than the polls are showing, though Clinton will probably edge it.
The polling has it roughly even (Clinton marginally ahead) - 49.5% Sanders, my custom demographic model has Sanders on 57.5%.
He needs to be aiming for 63% according to my calcs
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.
Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
If LEAVE wins by a small margin, say by less than 3% - 4%, then I think Cameron would rightly be held to account for failing to deliver a REMAIN outcome, largely on account of the break-neck speed at which the deal was cobbled together, involving very little if any actual negotiation as such. I remain convinced that had he instead played hardball, with a further 18 months of his self-imposed timetable to play with, then a conspicuously better outcome could have been achieved. Like many others, I feel that the pros and cons between the two choices is a finely balanced one and it was the extremely thin gruel on offer which pushed me decisively, if without any great enthusiasm, into the LEAVE camp.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
It seems rather silly to claim that Switzerland offering free medical treatment to EEA citizens has nothing to do with the EU.
And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.
Easy to say you'll vote to Leave now. When the date draws near and fear becomes real, I think a great many will return to Remain.
Even I, occasionally, worry that we'll be viewed as some kind of pariah State if we vote Leave.
There's a part of me that hopes Remain win 51/49, so I can have the satisfaction of saying I voted for independence and self-governance without experiencing any of the temporary disruption we would experience with a Leave vote.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
One last time.
She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.
It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Stupid and, I would hope, counter productive. Not being a reader of the Daily Mail I always used to think the Left were over the top in their attacks on it. The longer this campaign goes on the more I realise they were right all along (the Left I mean, not the Mail).
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.
Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
If leave were truly scaremongering they would be saying something like 'the EU will one day take your house, and put a Belgian in it - or - 'One day all our police will be German'
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
These are the most serious, so I'm not sure what the overall increased number of victims of crime from all criminals who have come to this country is, but it would likely be statistically significant.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
One last time.
She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.
It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
And as I said on the previous thread that is not what she was doing. She was trying to reinforce those perceptions by propagating a whole series of misleading claims and outright myths. Now that is a perfectly valid campaign tool but it is also then valid for the Leave campaign to point out that her statements are misleading and untrue.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
It seems rather silly to claim that Switzerland offering free medical treatment to EEA citizens has nothing to do with the EU.
And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.
She said that EU membership had made it easier to travel in Europe. This looks like a pretty decent example to me. Saying that does not imply it could not be done outside the EU. But I wonder how many non-EEA member states Switzerland has similar arrangements with. I imagine it is not many.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
The site has become very unpleasant and I too now rarely post. It is a pity but there you go.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.
Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
If leave were truly scaremongering they would be saying something like 'the EU will one day take your house, and put a Belgian in it - or - 'One day all our police will be German'
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Stupid and, I would hope, counter productive. Not being a reader of the Daily Mail I always used to think the Left were over the top in their attacks on it. The longer this campaign goes on the more I realise they were right all along (the Left I mean, not the Mail).
Yes we may not like it but are we in one of the key groups that could be influenced by it?
Betting on Hillary to beat Sanders feels a bit like cheering on Man United when the minnow was 3-0 down and is now at 3-1 10 minutes into the second half hoping to take the game to an unlikely replay.
And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.
It's part and parcel of the EU's free movement of people, objection to which is Leave's most potent argument. They can hardly complain if the Remain side take them at their word when they say they want 'control of our borders'.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
"50 foreign criminals who were let in under EU rules"
That is scaremongering. They would not have needed visas or background checks to enter the UK if we were not members of the EU.
Honestly claiming that is assuming a big number of ifs and buts. IF we had an Australian points style system, something that is complete anathema to remain for some reason, they would not have got within a thousand miles of Blighty.
Remainers seem to think its a GOOD thing that some bad eggs get in with the good. Largely, I guess, because they are pretty well off and don;t have to live alongside these miscreants.
If LEAVE wins by a small margin, say by less than 3% - 4%, then I think Cameron would rightly be held to account for failing to deliver a REMAIN outcome, largely on account of the break-neck speed at which the deal was cobbled together, involving very little if any actual negotiation as such. I remain convinced that had he instead played hardball, with a further 18 months of his self-imposed timetable to play with, then a conspicuously better outcome could have been achieved. Like many others, I feel that the pros and cons between the two choices is a finely balanced one and it was the extremely thin gruel on offer which pushed me decisively, if without any great enthusiasm, into the LEAVE camp.
The gamble will probably pay off but I can't help thinking Dave should have taken Lynton's advice, publicly said the deal ain't good enough and then run the referendum in 2017 once he'd got a a couple more concessions. He could then have said he's recommending Remain and will watch to see if the EU sticks to and implements the deal; if it doesn't he would be open to revisiting the issue in the future.
I think he'd be in a better place than now although I accept it would have prolonged the uncertainty and risk of 'events'.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
David, are you saying we should just let the government's fear campaign go unchallenged? It's absolutely stupid to say that backpacking or inter-railing will be more difficult in the case of Brexit, especially since inter-rail isn't anything to do with the EU and easy movement on the continent is Schengen, again something not to do with the EU.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
One last time.
She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.
It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
It's possible, but it is also possible that she was purposefully conflating Europe with the EU, something Remain have tried to do on numerous occasions given that the former is popular and the latter is not. I think it's important that Leave ensure that the two are not conflated. I agree that arguing endlessly about it on here won't make any difference though.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
And yet implying that it would be impossible to have such an agreement or situation outside of the EU is just fine and dandy and shouldn't go unchallenged.
It's part and parcel of the EU's free movement of people, objection to which is Leave's most potent argument. They can hardly complain if the Remain side take them at their word when they say they want 'control of our borders'.
Remains argument seems to be that control of our borders is, in essence, impossible. We are powerless. All we can do is put an arm around those affected negatively by immigration.
'Even I, occasionally, worry that we'll be viewed as some kind of pariah State if we vote Leave'
Well that was true after King Henry VIII broke with Rome, but it was 100% the right decision to do so.
Unless you were one of the unfortunates who lost his/her head. This though is the problem with the Referendum. Nearly everyone really affected by the decision is pro Remain.
Those with a sentimental attachment to warm beer cricket on the village green and other notions of times gone by are for 'Leave'. Fortunately the motivation to vote is going to be much stronger among those to whom it makes a serious difference
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.
Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
Talking about the war and deceitful Frenchies and cowardly Italians and all the other idiotic stereotypes would also be quite powerful with some voters. It doesn't mean it is a valid argument or one that Leave should pursue.
Just heard Nicky Morgan on the local radio,she said the job market for young people is slowing up because of the uncertainty over our membership of the EU.
Nothing to do with Government policies then,example the new government national living wage.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
I bet a half decent journalist could find 50 examples of foreign criminals in Britain for reasons that have nothing to do with the EU.
I wonder how many British criminals are holed up in Spain, continuing their activities. There was, IIRC a certain Welsh cannabis trader who was quite open about it, even to the extent of writing books.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
That's what I mean. Leave's scare here has some sort of link, however, tenuous, with something that has already happened.
Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
Talking about the war and deceitful Frenchies and cowardly Italians and all the other idiotic stereotypes would also be quite powerful with some voters. It doesn't mean it is a valid argument or one that Leave should pursue.
Well true, but in comparing leave's arguments with remains, I am simply arguing I think Leave's are having the more impact.
IIRC, OGH mentioned that further Hills-sponsored PB.com competitions would likely take place during the lead up to the referendum vote on 23 June. I'm not so much bothered about the prize money, bearing in mind it's very much of a longshot any way, but well before the first such competition was announced, I requested that a supplementary question be included, asking entrants to state whether their referendum voting intention had changed, and if so in which direction over the previous say three months. Such a question was never in fact incorporated, but I live in hope that it might be next time around, which could provide valuable trend information in relation to the betting markets.
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
I bet a half decent journalist could find 50 examples of foreign criminals in Britain for reasons that have nothing to do with the EU.
I wonder how many British criminals are holed up in Spain, continuing their activities. There was, IIRC a certain Welsh cannabis trader who was quite open about it, even to the extent of writing books.
There is British ex-con who specializes in providing legal defence for them and he is very very busy.
Mr. Pulpstar, could you explain that comparison, please.
Mr. Urquhart, outrageous behaviour. The only appropriate place to wear such a thing is on a police-approved and protected march through the centre of London, surely?
I think that Remain have ramped up Project Fear way, way too early. It is already losing its impact on people and if they continue to ratchet it up Vote Leave can start putting out spoof posters "Vote Remain or a plague of frogs will descend on Britain" etc...
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
For me, whenever Remain opens its mouth, it sounds like a bad parent trying to discipline an unruly child. Shrill, shouty, empty, overstated and illogical threats.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
Subtle in the sense that being whacked across the head by an iron bar is subtle?
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
As a % of EU immigrants to the UK, what do those 50 criminals represent?
A disingenuous comparison.
Its conspicuously 50 more murders and rapes than would have happened if they had not be let into the country. It would also be enlightening to know if EU Immigrants on average commit more or less rapes and murder per capita than UK citizens.
Comments
1. The migration crisis
2. The end of the Government's honeymoon period.
Will we never learn?
Luckily for future little Freggles-s, a number of countries participate in ERASMUS that are not part of the EU.
http://erasmus-plus.ro/erasmus-participating-countries-programme-erasmus-plus/
Even my apolitical friends are noticing the increasing histrionics from the Remain side.
Rolling out mega-rich CEOs to whine about how their profit margins are going to get hit, just doesn't cut the mustard for the average leftie.
Seriously, I am for Leave but I am not enjoying the comments from quite a number of my fellow Leavers, not at all. Richard Nabavi is a big boy who can look after himself but the hounding and moaning about a speech by Nicky Morgan (I mean Nicky Morgan for goodness sake, who the hell cares what she said) was tedious, unpleasant and worst of all, seriously boring. It is putting me off coming here, I won't deny it.
Cameron right to worry about turnout - REMAIN only 2 points ahead if factor in turnout (46%LEAVE vs 48% REMAIN) https://t.co/9zAcNL0uCK
I suspect Dave, utterly naively, thought he could fight a good fight, win clean and let the country and the party move on. In his dreams. The referendum is going to cause lasting and insoluble divisions. He could have won clean if he were on the right side of the argument - but he's opted for the establishment.
The weather is getting much warmer. Let's watch the migrant flow rate across the water. It won't be going down!
Assuming everyone turns up for qualifying...
Perhaps he really thinks turning up at Charlbury farmers' market from time to time keeps him in touch with ordinary people. Or perhaps not.
That's doing nothing for Labour either way.
Leave is scaremongering too, but the scares are subtler.
That is truly subtle.
It is nearly half the Parliamentary Party, and loyalists like Gove are for Leave that have surprised Dave.
Silly arguments based on nothing, and awful social media cred.
No one did this to her except her speech writer, and CCHQ.
Agreed. A lot of Leavers betraying their inner anger and frustration. Me - I think Remain will probably sneak it. But that isn't going to be the end of the story! We'll have another referendum and another until we get the right answer. Or the unfixed Eurozone will collapse first and it will all be moot. The sky won't fall in on the 24th June whatever we choose.
Woophs....
That may be a net advantage for Leave.
Morgan made a foolish comment, people said it was foolish and others denied it, despite the overwhelming evidence of it being a foolish comment.
Personally I have a sneaky feeling New York will be much closer than the polls are showing, though Clinton will probably edge it.
Perhaps he should have taken an opinion poll of his MPs first...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3513072/Deadly-cost-open-borders-Damning-dossier-lists-catalogue-murders-rapes-committed-Britain-50-foreign-criminals-let-EU-rules.html
Well that was true after King Henry VIII broke with Rome, but it was 100% the right decision to do so.
There's a risk either way. I'd sooner we take the risky option which gives us the power to mitigate it and exploit opportunities in our favour, as opposed to the risky option which puts us under the yoke of Brussels.
Edited extra bit: Mr. Runnymede not the last time an opt-out from European integration proved wise.
I've read reports elsewhere that he regrets his red mist, well it's a bit late now.
His bed, he made it. I'm very sad we're here, but I'm not giving him a free pass.
"I did an ERASMUS exchange year as a student, it was great, no tuition fees and a €3000 bursary for living costs. That will disappear if we Leave"
No it won't. This is another myth that got killed long ago in spite of some people still trying to repeat it. There are 37 countries in the ERASMUS programme and only 28 in the EU (31 in the EEA). Obviously simple maths tells you that being a member of the EU or the EEA is not a prerequisite for being in the ERASMUS programme.
But the all time turn-off is the six-form common room debaters that think the peak of witty repartee is to look at someone's detailed posting, choose the most implausible possible reading of it and then reply with a fatuous one liner like "So you favour executing alcoholics do you?" Blurgh
Technically that isn't scaremongering - it's a fact about what has already happened.
He needs to be aiming for 63% according to my calcs
I am currently laying him on Betfair ;p
Fifty is a tiny handful, and reading through the list one is tempted so say, is that the best you can do?' but its quite powerful with some groups of voters nevertheless.
Like many others, I feel that the pros and cons between the two choices is a finely balanced one and it was the extremely thin gruel on offer which pushed me decisively, if without any great enthusiasm, into the LEAVE camp.
Having just seen High Rise for the second time and thus being reminded of Thatcher that could be why my equilibrium is all over the place
She claimed that the youth of today feel much more European than their parents and grandparents did. They don't regard going to the EU as going abroad at all. They expect the same services, she might have mentioned medical care, she might have mentioned mobile phone tariffs, she might have had in mind Schengen and the lack of visas, whatever.
It's a point of view. I don't agree with it. I don't share it. I don't want to spend hours doing a syntactical analysis of what she said or have other people doing it on my half. She is just not that interesting, she really isn't.
That would be remain type scaremongering.
These are the most serious, so I'm not sure what the overall increased number of victims of crime from all criminals who have come to this country is, but it would likely be statistically significant.
That is scaremongering. They would not have needed visas or background checks to enter the UK if we were not members of the EU.
Betting on Hillary to beat Sanders feels a bit like cheering on Man United when the minnow was 3-0 down and is now at 3-1 10 minutes into the second half hoping to take the game to an unlikely replay.
Remainers seem to think its a GOOD thing that some bad eggs get in with the good. Largely, I guess, because they are pretty well off and don;t have to live alongside these miscreants.
Two soldiers who brutally beat up two disabled teenagers 'for entertainment' have been sentenced to more than 15 years at Merthyr Crown Court.
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2016-03-29/soldiers-jailed-for-beating-up-disabled-teenagers-in-brutal-attack/
I think he'd be in a better place than now although I accept it would have prolonged the uncertainty and risk of 'events'.
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/274521-poll-half-of-american-voters-back-trumps-muslim-ban
US orders families of US diplomats, military personnel to leave posts in southern Turkey due to security fears: https://t.co/Fw8RVgmi8S
Mr. Max, that does irk me.
Those with a sentimental attachment to warm beer cricket on the village green and other notions of times gone by are for 'Leave'. Fortunately the motivation to vote is going to be much stronger among those to whom it makes a serious difference
http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/463351/boundary-review-rules-reveal-timetable-forconstituency-change.thtml
@MichelleFields you are totally delusional. I never touched you. As a matter of fact, I have never even met you.
@SunNewsdesk: Free to kill: Europe let 45 thugs into Britain who went on to murder, rape and GBH https://t.co/t4zl5m9DpC https://t.co/093Leeujim
Nothing to do with Government policies then,example the new government national living wage.
I'm not so much bothered about the prize money, bearing in mind it's very much of a longshot any way, but well before the first such competition was announced, I requested that a supplementary question be included, asking entrants to state whether their referendum voting intention had changed, and if so in which direction over the previous say three months. Such a question was never in fact incorporated, but I live in hope that it might be next time around, which could provide valuable trend information in relation to the betting markets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd1vWYr51tk
Mr. Urquhart, outrageous behaviour. The only appropriate place to wear such a thing is on a police-approved and protected march through the centre of London, surely?
Its conspicuously 50 more murders and rapes than would have happened if they had not be let into the country. It would also be enlightening to know if EU Immigrants on average commit more or less rapes and murder per capita than UK citizens.