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As conference season begins – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,126
edited September 29 in General
As conference season begins – politicalbetting.com

Party conference season is upon us, but only one in five Britons are likely to be paying attentionA lot: 2%A fair amount: 18%Not much: 42%None at all: 36%https://t.co/tl9AJ2ehZl pic.twitter.com/lM3SxGW0jS

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Comments

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    edited September 14
    2nd

    And the small group of people saying they pay attention to party conferences are just being polite.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    Going forth and conking out.
  • Good morning

    I am surprised it is as high as 20%
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,389
    Didn't the Greens have their conference last week?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Reposted FPT in case it is of interest to anyone:

    Anyway, so, in important news:

    Hit and giggle finals today.

    All the finalists are from the South group, so have played each other in the competition before.

    Surrey and Somerset in the first semi-final, their two matches both went with home advantage.

    Sussex beat Gloucestershire both times in their group matches, although the one at Hove was tight and Gloucestershire could and should have won if they'd kept their heads.

    Sussex only played Somerset once, losing at Taunton. Oddly, when at Hove Sussex lost to Surrey but absolutely thrashed them in the return fixture at the Oval.

    Sussex, Somerset and Surrey are strong all-round sides having excellent seasons. Somerset beat Surrey earlier this week, so Surrey will be anxious to get their own back. None of them have any obvious weakness, although Sussex have dropped a few catches they shouldn't have.

    Gloucestershire are capable on their day of beating absolutely anyone, having beaten Somerset handily in both matches they had, and played out a sensational tie with Surrey. Bowling is their stronger suit but Hammond is one of the best white ball batsmen in England (and would probably do a much better job for England than Will Jacks). If he gets going they could do well. But they are mercurial and prone to sudden collapses.

    I wouldn't like to pick a favourite, although I suppose the sheer quality of Surrey justifies the 10/11 joint favourites with defending champions Somerset. They also have the advantage of playing first giving them a little more time to recover.

    The value is probably in one of Sussex or Gloucestershire given that there's no one side that's been clearly dominant. Gloucestershire will be considered the outsiders and have I think the narrowest path to victory. But this could be an excellent day of cricket.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,980
    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,700
    Picking up an FPT for @MarqueeMark :smile:

    MattW said:

    Alina Habba settles case from a 'friend' she 'advised' to sign an NDA about a sexual harassment case with Trump.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/alina-habba-bedminster-lawsuit-settles-b2611971.html

    She'd be struck off here for that. Maybe in the US too?
    As we know in the USA there is a split between Federal and State legal systems. Several of Trump's former lawyers have been struck off in various places eg Rudy Giuliani in New York. Others are in process (when I last heard) eg John Eastman, and Kenneth Chesebro.

    A lot are in (slow) process. It works on suspension, investigation, hearing, action ... eventually (very eventually).

    One of Trump's problems is that he has been using out of state lawyers eg in New York on a temporary basis who know little about the strange NY system, then they get something wrong (such as forgetting to ask for a jury trial or complaining on a non-valid basis), and he throws another tantrum.

    I'm not sure how the Federal system regulates lawyer accreditation.

    G piece about John Eastman:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/27/former-trump-lawyer-john-eastman-lose-law-license
  • On this sporting theme, over to the horseracing and the final Classic race of the season, the St Leger will be run at Doncaster racecourse.

    Even non-racing fans will know of the race from such aphorisms as Winter comes in on the tail of the last horse in the St Leger, or the stock market's Sell in May and go away; come back on St Leger day.

    The St Leger is also the world's oldest Classic race. It was first run in 1776, an otherwise unremarkable year.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,095
    edited September 14
    @Nigelb

    Looks like everything that could have gone wrong did. But, as always, it’s about overhead and padding. The grant from CA state was $1.7m

    The actual cost (after donations) is $300k

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.html
  • Last Night of the Proms, introduced by Katie Derham, who as a student answered phones for the tipping service run by fellow-student and professional punter, Patrick Veitch. At Cambridge it was either that or spying for Moscow.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,389

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Me neither. Other than my £ involvement via Betfair.

    Jenrick means no lunch or dinner that day.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    @Nigelb

    Looks like everything that could have gone wrong did. But, as always, it’s about overhead and padding. The grant from CA state was $1.7m

    The actual cost (after donations) is $300k

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.html

    The Process State, Processing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Note the price tag for a “bridge” across a ditch
  • ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
    I’m quite intrigued myself. I’m going this year as I’m on a panel in a fringe event. First time I’ve been to a Tory conference. I’m expecting it to be very different from the Labour one last year which was heaving with lobbyists.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,787
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
    I’m quite intrigued myself. I’m going this year as I’m on a panel in a fringe event. First time I’ve been to a Tory conference. I’m expecting it to be very different from the Labour one last year which was heaving with lobbyists.
    Which one, if you don't mind me asking?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
    I’m quite intrigued myself. I’m going this year as I’m on a panel in a fringe event. First time I’ve been to a Tory conference. I’m expecting it to be very different from the Labour one last year which was heaving with lobbyists.
    The shrewd lobbyists looking for a longer term grift will be up for it. Probably the same ones you met at last years Labour Conference.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583

    @Nigelb

    Looks like everything that could have gone wrong did. But, as always, it’s about overhead and padding. The grant from CA state was $1.7m

    The actual cost (after donations) is $300k

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.html

    The Process State, Processing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Note the price tag for a “bridge” across a ditch
    Same old story. National Trust hates the British people.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    The 1980s just called to ask for its bigotry back.

    JD Vance now says Haitian immigrants are spreading HIV after bizarre pet-eating claim flops
    https://x.com/TheAdvocateMag/status/1834668688886157471
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,874
    algarkirk said:

    2nd

    And the small group of people saying they pay attention to party conferences are just being polite.

    Or are Conservative Party leadership candidates.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    Cookie said:

    @Nigelb

    Looks like everything that could have gone wrong did. But, as always, it’s about overhead and padding. The grant from CA state was $1.7m

    The actual cost (after donations) is $300k

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.html

    The Process State, Processing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Note the price tag for a “bridge” across a ditch
    Same old story. National Trust hates the British people.
    It’s more that, as (as they see it), as a Quasi Governmental Organisation, they owe allegiance to the nostrums of the State, not their members.

    That combination of “Remote Arrogance and Fuck You” is classic officialdom.

    See also the RSPCA.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
    I’m quite intrigued myself. I’m going this year as I’m on a panel in a fringe event. First time I’ve been to a Tory conference. I’m expecting it to be very different from the Labour one last year which was heaving with lobbyists.
    Which one, if you don't mind me asking?
    “Going for growth: a conservative vision for economic prosperity”
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    As the UK has slowly sunk into insignificance since Brexit we've had to live with some of the worst governments most of us will remember.

    I'm not sure whether Starmer and Co feel like the cavalry or whether they're just a chink of light but they couldn't have arrived at a more opportune moment.

    With Jenrick or Badenoch and possiby Trump and without the stability of the EU we'd have been well on our way up shit creek.

    I think we should all say a bunch of Hail Marys for Sir Keir and an extra one for Kamala
  • David Cameron and George Osborne had contempt for people who did not share their backgrounds.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/13/graham-brady-reveals-secrets-how-five-tory-pms-ousted/ (£££)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Cookie said:

    @Nigelb

    Looks like everything that could have gone wrong did. But, as always, it’s about overhead and padding. The grant from CA state was $1.7m

    The actual cost (after donations) is $300k

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.html

    The Process State, Processing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Note the price tag for a “bridge” across a ditch
    Same old story. National Trust hates the British people.
    More like the multiple land ownerships, from the report (and, I suspect, the insurance company). But hey, any excuse for an anti-woke story. It'll be whinging about vegan mudpies next.
  • Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    Other way round. Asda used to play proper songs but changed to unlicensed rubbish (similar to what we used to call muzak) and that is what has upset the workforce.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    Scott_xP said:

    A number of significant questions will be answered, at least in part, by the Conservative Party’s latest leadership contest. Chief among them is this: do the Tories wish to be the party of weird?

    At present, the signs are not altogether encouraging. Robert Jenrick, still largely unknown as far as the general public is concerned but at present topping the ballot among his peers in the House of Commons, has embraced the weird.

    If Jenrick were the only significant Tory to do so this might be of little concern but he is not. For, like Boris Johnson and Liz Truss, Jenrick has cheerfully endorsed Donald Trump’s campaign for the presidency of the United States. Perhaps he thinks this will help him with the pet owners’ vote but, regardless of any other considerations, Jenrick’s enthusiasm for Trump is a grim indication of how the wind is blowing in Tory circles.


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/tories-picking-trump-are-taking-wrong-path-zxn2f5q7v

    One of the big questions for British politics is whether the next leader of the Conservative Party will succeed in reuniting the right of centre vote by convincing Tory voters to believe the things that Reform voters believe in.
  • Nigelb said:

    The 1980s just called to ask for its bigotry back.

    JD Vance now says Haitian immigrants are spreading HIV after bizarre pet-eating claim flops
    https://x.com/TheAdvocateMag/status/1834668688886157471

    How well does an earlier version of that glibness look now:

    The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back – A portion of a statement that Obama made in an October 2012 debate. In the debate, Obama was deriding an earlier Romney statement in the campaign that Russia is "without question, our No. 1 geopolitical foe."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election#Presidential_debates
  • The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I take the line that the less time MPs are in parliament the better…
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    Nigelb said:

    The 1980s just called to ask for its bigotry back.

    JD Vance now says Haitian immigrants are spreading HIV after bizarre pet-eating claim flops
    https://x.com/TheAdvocateMag/status/1834668688886157471

    How well does an earlier version of that glibness look now:

    The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back – A portion of a statement that Obama made in an October 2012 debate. In the debate, Obama was deriding an earlier Romney statement in the campaign that Russia is "without question, our No. 1 geopolitical foe."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election#Presidential_debates
    How is that in any way relevant to Vance’s revolting bigotry, other than it using the same stock phrase?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    edited September 14
    Carnyx said:

    Cookie said:

    @Nigelb

    Looks like everything that could have gone wrong did. But, as always, it’s about overhead and padding. The grant from CA state was $1.7m

    The actual cost (after donations) is $300k

    https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/24/us/san-francisco-toilet.html

    The Process State, Processing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Note the price tag for a “bridge” across a ditch
    Same old story. National Trust hates the British people.
    More like the multiple land ownerships, from the report (and, I suspect, the insurance company). But hey, any excuse for an anti-woke story. It'll be whinging about vegan mudpies next.
    From the report (and knowing some of the people involved) - it was because the section of the National Trust wanted to exclude people from the marsh. They wanted a “pristine natural environment” with people excluded from it.

    Edit : bit like other big land owners not wanting anyone walking across their land, eh?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    No music at Lidl (at least as far as my experience goes), one of its many merits.

    A minority of people (I am one) would prefer M6 traffic noise in a wet rush hour to unwanted music, but like silence better still.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Indeed. And should rule him out of high office in this country for the rest of his career.

    He is siding with this country's enemies.
    The Conservative base and voter bloc is anti-Trump at the moment, unlike Reform. It’s also strongly pro-Ukraine and hawkish on Russia. But a Trump-positive Jenrick as leader, and especially a new Trump presidency, could well shift that particular Overton side-window. I really don’t want to see the party dragged into MAGA land. It’ll have us pining for the good old days of honourable, honest leaders like Boris Johnson.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    No music at Lidl (at least as far as my experience goes), one of its many merits.

    A minority of people (I am one) would prefer M6 traffic noise in a wet rush hour to unwanted music, but like silence better still.
    And this is now.

    Just imagine what their Christmas season music will be like when it starts on November 1st.
  • TimS said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Indeed. And should rule him out of high office in this country for the rest of his career.

    He is siding with this country's enemies.
    The Conservative base and voter bloc is anti-Trump at the moment, unlike Reform. It’s also strongly pro-Ukraine and hawkish on Russia. But a Trump-positive Jenrick as leader, and especially a new Trump presidency, could well shift that particular Overton side-window. I really don’t want to see the party dragged into MAGA land. It’ll have us pining for the good old days of honourable, honest leaders like Boris Johnson.
    It would be a good way of losing even more support.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,891

    Scott_xP said:

    A number of significant questions will be answered, at least in part, by the Conservative Party’s latest leadership contest. Chief among them is this: do the Tories wish to be the party of weird?

    At present, the signs are not altogether encouraging. Robert Jenrick, still largely unknown as far as the general public is concerned but at present topping the ballot among his peers in the House of Commons, has embraced the weird.

    If Jenrick were the only significant Tory to do so this might be of little concern but he is not. For, like Boris Johnson and Liz Truss, Jenrick has cheerfully endorsed Donald Trump’s campaign for the presidency of the United States. Perhaps he thinks this will help him with the pet owners’ vote but, regardless of any other considerations, Jenrick’s enthusiasm for Trump is a grim indication of how the wind is blowing in Tory circles.


    https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/tories-picking-trump-are-taking-wrong-path-zxn2f5q7v

    Jenrick has embraced Trump because he believes it burnishes his credentials on the Tory right and among th members, and will appeal to Reform supporters. He's probably correct.
    The article addresses that too

    I think we should understand that the Tory party’s Trump problem is related to and in some ways a proxy for its Nigel Farage problem. Farage, who would dearly love to be Trump’s British mini-me, is the spectre haunting the Conservative leadership contest. Lacking the courage to shoot this fox, Tories such as Jenrick prefer to appease it.

    There is, to be sure, an audience for revanchist conservatism in this country just as there is an audience for the kind of America-brained populism increasingly espoused by outlets such as GB News. The station is a portent of one possible Tory future and it is worth noting that some of its shows outperform their notional rivals on more established channels such as Sky News. In this respect, the future direction of The Daily Telegraph under its new owners, whenever they are revealed, will be a significant litmus test for the Tories’ future too.

    But, influential or not, this kind of politics remains a minority enthusiasm. A Conservative Party which concludes it lost the general election because voters thought it was insufficiently right-wing is a party which will deserve everything it gets. Which will be precisely nothing.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Along with Suella Braverman, Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, Nigel Farage, Ian Paisley, as Andrea
    Jenkyns and Jacob Rees Mogg.

    They share a robust attitude to ethics and moral behaviour as well as their love for Donald Trump.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125

    On this sporting theme, over to the horseracing and the final Classic race of the season, the St Leger will be run at Doncaster racecourse.

    Even non-racing fans will know of the race from such aphorisms as Winter comes in on the tail of the last horse in the St Leger, or the stock market's Sell in May and go away; come back on St Leger day.

    The St Leger is also the world's oldest Classic race. It was first run in 1776, an otherwise unremarkable year.

    An sarcastic reference to the founding of the Illuminati - well played!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    edited September 14
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    No music at Lidl (at least as far as my experience goes), one of its many merits.

    A minority of people (I am one) would prefer M6 traffic noise in a wet rush hour to unwanted music, but like silence better still.
    ASDA is my least favourite supermarket chain. It’s neither one thing nor the other these days. Morrisons is a bit performatively Northern with its “fancy cheese” section and fancy dress butcher counter staff, but at least it stocks deep discounted white-labelled 2010 Nyetimber.

    Lidl is brilliant. Much prefer it to Aldi.
  • Nigelb said:

    The 1980s just called to ask for its bigotry back.

    JD Vance now says Haitian immigrants are spreading HIV after bizarre pet-eating claim flops
    https://x.com/TheAdvocateMag/status/1834668688886157471

    How well does an earlier version of that glibness look now:

    The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back – A portion of a statement that Obama made in an October 2012 debate. In the debate, Obama was deriding an earlier Romney statement in the campaign that Russia is "without question, our No. 1 geopolitical foe."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_presidential_election#Presidential_debates
    How is that in any way relevant to Vance’s revolting bigotry, other than it using the same stock phrase?
    If you want every comment to be precisely relevant to those proceeding then you're on the wrong site.

    But if you want some relevance I would suggest:

    1) The particulars of what Haitian immigrants get up to matter less than highlighting that they are there. Haiti is a failed state, Haitians are failed state people, who wants failed state people when you have enough problems of your own ? The Dems poll badly on immigration so the more the focus is on immigration then the more it benefits Trump.

    2) Other people might not agree with hostile references to the 1980s. Remember Labour's 'Fire up the Quattro' fiasco:

    The Milibands' attempt to portray Tory leader as a throwback to the Eighties backfires spectacularly

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poster-turns-cameron-into-a-cult-hero-1935428.html
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TimS said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Indeed. And should rule him out of high office in this country for the rest of his career.

    He is siding with this country's enemies.
    The Conservative base and voter bloc is anti-Trump at the moment, unlike Reform. It’s also strongly pro-Ukraine and hawkish on Russia. But a Trump-positive Jenrick as leader, and especially a new Trump presidency, could well shift that particular Overton side-window. I really don’t want to see the party dragged into MAGA land. It’ll have us pining for the good old days of honourable, honest leaders like Boris Johnson.
    It is quite possible to be a Ukrainian Ultra and want to fuck Trump's 'Neck Pussy' as bro living in the Ballardesque nightmare of the Trucial States vividly demonstrates on the reg.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    No music at Lidl (at least as far as my experience goes), one of its many merits.

    A minority of people (I am one) would prefer M6 traffic noise in a wet rush hour to unwanted music, but like silence better still.
    ASDA is my least favourite supermarket chain. It’s neither one thing nor the other these days. Morrisons is a bit performatively Northern with its “fancy cheese” section and fancy dress butcher counter staff, but at least it stocks deep discounted white-labelled 2010 Nyetimber.

    Lidl is brilliant. Much prefer it to Aldi.
    I prefer Lidl to Aldi because its strengths match my shopping habits. I believe Aldi is a much better employer though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Azeem Rafiq showed his true colours this week:

    https://x.com/AzeemRafiq30/status/1834157564537221267

    Azeem Rafiq
    @AzeemRafiq30
    Marieha Hussain, a nine-months pregnant woman is on trial today for this placard

    2024 Britain


    But his side - and it is all about sides with c***s like him - won.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,389
    TimS said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Indeed. And should rule him out of high office in this country for the rest of his career.

    He is siding with this country's enemies.
    The Conservative base and voter bloc is anti-Trump at the moment, unlike Reform. It’s also strongly pro-Ukraine and hawkish on Russia. But a Trump-positive Jenrick as leader, and especially a new Trump presidency, could well shift that particular Overton side-window. I really don’t want to see the party dragged into MAGA land. It’ll have us pining for the good old days of honourable, honest leaders like Boris Johnson.
    This I guess is why we should try and drum up some interest in this contest: the party could well go full MAGA with the wrong leader. Conspiracy theories, lies, populist ranting etc etc.

    Last thing this country needs.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,797
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    No music at Lidl (at least as far as my experience goes), one of its many merits.

    A minority of people (I am one) would prefer M6 traffic noise in a wet rush hour to unwanted music, but like silence better still.
    ASDA is my least favourite supermarket chain. It’s neither one thing nor the other these days. Morrisons is a bit performatively Northern with its “fancy cheese” section and fancy dress butcher counter staff, but at least it stocks deep discounted white-labelled 2010 Nyetimber.

    Lidl is brilliant. Much prefer it to Aldi.
    With you on Lidl, much the best supermarket offer these days, for the basics.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    edited September 14

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Once they become an MP that should be their job. If they want to spend a week chattering amongst like minded people it should be one of their 30-40 days or so holiday. Get rid of the whole pantomime.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,787
    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I take the line that the less time MPs are in parliament the better…
    Parliament should only sit when it has something useful to do. The default position should be that it isn't sitting. MPs should be volunteers, paid expenses only, with the salary going to unglamorous constituency case workers. Nearly all real accountability from government and ministers is achieved in detailed discussions and exchanges well away from the chamber.
  • The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Or could they? Presumably the parties need to fit in between the summer season and panto, not least for hotel accommodation.
  • The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Once they become an MP that should be their job. If they want to spend a week chattering amongst like minded people it should be one of their 30-40 days or so holiday. Get rid of the whole pantomime.
    Being an MP should not be a job: if it were then then they should be much harder to sack.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,851
    The links to newspapers used to be mainly to the Mail. Nowadays the majority are to the Telegraph. Is the site attracting a better class of Tory or are the Telegraph doing a deal at the moment?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,389

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,787
    edited September 14
    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
    I’m quite intrigued myself. I’m going this year as I’m on a panel in a fringe event. First time I’ve been to a Tory conference. I’m expecting it to be very different from the Labour one last year which was heaving with lobbyists.
    Which one, if you don't mind me asking?
    “Going for growth: a conservative vision for economic prosperity”
    It looks very interesting, thank you. If I could take time off I would attend. Will video be posted/streamed?
  • viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
    Prime Ministers who bang on about their parents: Keir Starmer; Rishi Sunak; Margaret Thatcher; Winston Churchill; Pitt the Younger.
  • viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
    Prime Ministers who bang on about their parents: Keir Starmer; Rishi Sunak; Margaret Thatcher; Winston Churchill; Pitt the Younger.
    Truss did as well, though as ghastly lefties to recoil from. We didn't notice so much, because she came and left so quickly.

  • Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
  • Roger said:

    The links to newspapers used to be mainly to the Mail. Nowadays the majority are to the Telegraph. Is the site attracting a better class of Tory or are the Telegraph doing a deal at the moment?

    The Mail is newly 50 per cent paywalled, which probably accounts for the decline there.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    edited September 14

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Or could they? Presumably the parties need to fit in between the summer season and panto, not least for hotel accommodation.
    That's a very good point. Worth considering the extent to which party conference season exists to support the hotel and event space industry.
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 220
    Well it seems the German government is relaxed about the gains made by AfD in recent elections.

    madness. just utter madness. None of these people will return home on reality.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gegkkg14ko
  • viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
    Prime Ministers who bang on about their parents: Keir Starmer; Rishi Sunak; Margaret Thatcher; Winston Churchill; Pitt the Younger.
    Truss did as well, though as ghastly lefties to recoil from. We didn't notice so much, because she came and left so quickly.
    I crossed out Liz Truss because on reflection, I think it was that commentators frequently reminded us of her parents being lefty academics. Truss herself spoke more about her old school, from what I remember.
  • The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Once they become an MP that should be their job. If they want to spend a week chattering amongst like minded people it should be one of their 30-40 days or so holiday. Get rid of the whole pantomime.
    Being an MP should not be a job: if it were then then they should be much harder to sack.
    A full time equivalent responsibility rather than a "job" in employment law.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    F1: waiting for markets to awaken. Contemplating Leclerc for pole and Colapinto for Q3.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    I think also that if the people of a country are content to see their country gently decline in geopolitical terms, and would rather deal with the demographic challenges of a declining population, rather than the infrastructure challenges of a growing population, then in a democracy they should be able to make that choice.

    We've recently had 14 years of a Conservative government promising to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, which would imply a total level of net migration of 1.4 million during their term of office. Net migration in 2022 and 2023 was above 1.4 million in those two years alone.

    I am generally in favour of increasing people's freedom to move around the world and live where they want, but the democratic deficit is pretty clear.
  • algarkirk said:

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I take the line that the less time MPs are in parliament the better…
    Parliament should only sit when it has something useful to do. The default position should be that it isn't sitting. MPs should be volunteers, paid expenses only, with the salary going to unglamorous constituency case workers. Nearly all real accountability from government and ministers is achieved in detailed discussions and exchanges well away from the chamber.
    I agree: the idea that being an MP is a full time job and that they shouldn’t do anything else is contradicted by the fact that almost all members of the government are also MPs. If SKS can be prime minister while being an MP then back benchers should be able to do anything that doesn’t produce an obvious conflict of interest.
    And how would you describe the quality of legislation we get or the level of scrutiny of government ministers and policies?

    If its not working, and we keep doing the same thing, it ain't gonna get any better.
  • The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Once they become an MP that should be their job. If they want to spend a week chattering amongst like minded people it should be one of their 30-40 days or so holiday. Get rid of the whole pantomime.
    Being an MP should not be a job: if it were then then they should be much harder to sack.
    A full time equivalent responsibility rather than a "job" in employment law.
    But it’s not full time, or else government ministers couldn’t be MPs as well.
  • On topic - 20% paying any sort of attention seems about right. They are also the 20% least likely to change their vote.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,462
    I CANNOT BELIEVE I MISSED THE CASH THREAD YESTERDAY

    Working too hard. But yes @TheScreamingEagles is right - cash is absolutely pointless. The arguments of the very few PBers who contested his view were incredibly weak.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
    Prime Ministers who bang on about their parents: Keir Starmer; Rishi Sunak; Margaret Thatcher; Winston Churchill; Pitt the Younger.
    Truss did as well, though as ghastly lefties to recoil from. We didn't notice so much, because she came and left so quickly.
    I crossed out Liz Truss because on reflection, I think it was that commentators frequently reminded us of her parents being lefty academics. Truss herself spoke more about her old school, from what I remember.
    And said it was quite poor, academically. Which upset the school, because it's academic record is, in fact, good.
  • agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 112

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    Indeed. But Parliament is not the same as Government, which continues, unchecked, whatever Parliament may or may not be doing.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599
    edited September 14


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    I think also that if the people of a country are content to see their country gently decline in geopolitical terms, and would rather deal with the demographic challenges of a declining population, rather than the infrastructure challenges of a growing population, then in a democracy they should be able to make that choice.

    We've recently had 14 years of a Conservative government promising to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, which would imply a total level of net migration of 1.4 million during their term of office. Net migration in 2022 and 2023 was above 1.4 million in those two years alone.

    I am generally in favour of increasing people's freedom to move around the world and live where they want, but the democratic deficit is pretty clear.
    Voters want lots of things. The problem is whilst each of them is deliverable on their own, they cannot all be delivered at the same time. So governments have to make choices on their behalf that they don't like whether it is on migration, higher taxes, crumbling public services including law and order and health.

    If the voters really want lower immigration then they should vote for a party that promises higher tax and worse public services in exchange. I don't think they would vote for that in numbers higher than Reform poll.
  • The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I think Cammo reduced the summer recess so it no longer included the September fortnight. Not only did this prevent MPs having cheap holidays, it caused a ludicrous system whereby they returned for a fortnight then rose again. They’d be better finding the two weeks elsewhere in the year.
    Or they could move the dates of the party conference season?
    Once they become an MP that should be their job. If they want to spend a week chattering amongst like minded people it should be one of their 30-40 days or so holiday. Get rid of the whole pantomime.
    Being an MP should not be a job: if it were then then they should be much harder to sack.
    A full time equivalent responsibility rather than a "job" in employment law.
    But it’s not full time, or else government ministers couldn’t be MPs as well.
    Should be and is are different states.
  • I CANNOT BELIEVE I MISSED THE CASH THREAD YESTERDAY

    Working too hard. But yes @TheScreamingEagles is right - cash is absolutely pointless. The arguments of the very few PBers who contested his view were incredibly weak.

    When will the penny finally drop?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,695

    I CANNOT BELIEVE I MISSED THE CASH THREAD YESTERDAY

    Working too hard. But yes @TheScreamingEagles is right - cash is absolutely pointless. The arguments of the very few PBers who contested his view were incredibly weak.

    :smiley: Too late now. You missed your opportunity. Bit mean of @TheScreamingEagles not to send you a message beforehand.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,595
    edited September 14
    Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    If I ever have to go into a supermarket (or, horror of horrors, a DIY store) that is playing any kind of musak I leave as fast as possible.

    Soon after I wonder if this is a deliberate policy to make people grab at things and run before they have a chance to think too hard about what they actually need.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    I think also that if the people of a country are content to see their country gently decline in geopolitical terms, and would rather deal with the demographic challenges of a declining population, rather than the infrastructure challenges of a growing population, then in a democracy they should be able to make that choice.

    We've recently had 14 years of a Conservative government promising to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, which would imply a total level of net migration of 1.4 million during their term of office. Net migration in 2022 and 2023 was above 1.4 million in those two years alone.

    I am generally in favour of increasing people's freedom to move around the world and live where they want, but the democratic deficit is pretty clear.
    Voters want lots of things.
    The voters wanted immediate help with their huge rise in electricity bills. Rishi provided this. Helped many, many families over a cash crisis that was not remotely of the Conservative Government's making.

    Not a single voter mentioned any gratitude on the doorstep. Not one.

    Politically, he should have put it into the NHS.
  • algarkirk said:

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I take the line that the less time MPs are in parliament the better…
    Parliament should only sit when it has something useful to do. The default position should be that it isn't sitting. MPs should be volunteers, paid expenses only, with the salary going to unglamorous constituency case workers. Nearly all real accountability from government and ministers is achieved in detailed discussions and exchanges well away from the chamber.
    I agree: the idea that being an MP is a full time job and that they shouldn’t do anything else is contradicted by the fact that almost all members of the government are also MPs. If SKS can be prime minister while being an MP then back benchers should be able to do anything that doesn’t produce an obvious conflict of interest.
    And how would you describe the quality of legislation we get or the level of scrutiny of government ministers and policies?

    If its not working, and we keep doing the same thing, it ain't gonna get any better.
    I’m not sure how those are linked. A lot of MPs do treat it as a full time job at the moment, but by that they seem to mean dealing with problems from their constituents rather than the legislative scrutiny you rightly point out is missing. There is also the problem of blindly voting on party lines of course. But that is not new; WS Gilbert had some choice comments on that in both “HMS Pinafore” and “Iolanthe”.
    I particularly remember the lines

    “but then the prospect of a lot
    of dull MPs in close proximity
    All thinking for themselves is what
    No man can face with equinimity”


    How would you improve it?
  • viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
    Prime Ministers who bang on about their parents: Keir Starmer; Rishi Sunak; Margaret Thatcher; Winston Churchill; Pitt the Younger.
    Truss did as well, though as ghastly lefties to recoil from. We didn't notice so much, because she came and left so quickly.
    I crossed out Liz Truss because on reflection, I think it was that commentators frequently reminded us of her parents being lefty academics. Truss herself spoke more about her old school, from what I remember.
    And said it was quite poor, academically. Which upset the school, because it's academic record is, in fact, good.
    The school did get Liz Truss into Oxford, after all.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344
    Absolutely stunning early autumn day in Devon. Mists first off, now bright blue skies.

    Why would anyone want to go anywhere else? (Remind me of this when I'm in the UAE in a fortnight...)

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    I hadn’t realised that JENRICK had endorsed Trump. Dear me, what an absolute tool.

    Unkind.

    There are some fine tools out there who do not deserve to be compared to Jenrick.
    I wonder who makes those tools and what happened to their son. If only somebody could tell us repeatedly.
    Prime Ministers who bang on about their parents: Keir Starmer; Rishi Sunak; Margaret Thatcher; Winston Churchill; Pitt the Younger.
    Truss did as well, though as ghastly lefties to recoil from. We didn't notice so much, because she came and left so quickly.
    I crossed out Liz Truss because on reflection, I think it was that commentators frequently reminded us of her parents being lefty academics. Truss herself spoke more about her old school, from what I remember.
    And said it was quite poor, academically. Which upset the school, because it's academic record is, in fact, good.
    The school did get Liz Truss into Oxford, after all.
    Got a lot to answer for, there, of course
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    I think also that if the people of a country are content to see their country gently decline in geopolitical terms, and would rather deal with the demographic challenges of a declining population, rather than the infrastructure challenges of a growing population, then in a democracy they should be able to make that choice.

    We've recently had 14 years of a Conservative government promising to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, which would imply a total level of net migration of 1.4 million during their term of office. Net migration in 2022 and 2023 was above 1.4 million in those two years alone.

    I am generally in favour of increasing people's freedom to move around the world and live where they want, but the democratic deficit is pretty clear.
    Voters want lots of things.
    The voters wanted immediate help with their huge rise in electricity bills. Rishi provided this. Helped many, many families over a cash crisis that was not remotely of the Conservative Government's making.

    Not a single voter mentioned any gratitude on the doorstep. Not one.

    Politically, he should have put it into the NHS.
    I thought it was Gordon Brown who started the Winter Fuel Allowance.
  • Cookie said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/09/14/asda-workers-revolt-mentally-draining-in-store-radio/

    Today's big issue - Asda workers up in arms at the shitness of the music they are forced to listen to while they work.

    I'm with them here. I like music as much as the next man - but I like the music which is to my taste. I'd rather have no music than music I don't like. I wouldn't expect other shoppers to be gleeful about having my playlists full of The Fall and Half Man Half Biscuit, and I don't understand the arrogance of people who think we all want to listen to their taste in terrible MOR in supermarkets.

    Other way round. Asda used to play proper songs but changed to unlicensed rubbish (similar to what we used to call muzak) and that is what has upset the workforce.
    I was pleasantly surprised that, sat at Breakfast in the Premier Inn in ABerdeen on Wednesday, they were not only playing original artists (as opposd to poor copies) but also a cracking setlist. Springsteen, CCR, Blondie, Nick Drake and Kraftwerk were some I remember
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,389


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    "build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel"

    That's LOL considering the way we do things in this country.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Absolutely stunning early autumn day in Devon. Mists first off, now bright blue skies.

    Why would anyone want to go anywhere else? (Remind me of this when I'm in the UAE in a fortnight...)

    Canada isn’t ALL bad



  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,389


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    I think also that if the people of a country are content to see their country gently decline in geopolitical terms, and would rather deal with the demographic challenges of a declining population, rather than the infrastructure challenges of a growing population, then in a democracy they should be able to make that choice.

    We've recently had 14 years of a Conservative government promising to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, which would imply a total level of net migration of 1.4 million during their term of office. Net migration in 2022 and 2023 was above 1.4 million in those two years alone.

    I am generally in favour of increasing people's freedom to move around the world and live where they want, but the democratic deficit is pretty clear.
    Voters want lots of things.
    The voters wanted immediate help with their huge rise in electricity bills. Rishi provided this. Helped many, many families over a cash crisis that was not remotely of the Conservative Government's making.

    Not a single voter mentioned any gratitude on the doorstep. Not one.

    Politically, he should have put it into the NHS.
    I thought it was Gordon Brown who started the Winter Fuel Allowance.
    Mark is talking about the additional payments we got during the Russia gas crisis.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    Absolutely stunning early autumn day in Devon. Mists first off, now bright blue skies.

    Why would anyone want to go anywhere else? (Remind me of this when I'm in the UAE in a fortnight...)

    A few degrees warmer would be nice. But regardless, it’s a beautiful day.

    Heading down to the vineyard later with my daughter to check on the grapes and have a country walk. We narrowly escaped frost last night. 2.1C. One vineyard down in Sussex got down to 0.3C.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    edited September 14
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think the Tory conference will attract a lot of attention with the beauty parade featuring the final four leadership contenders.

    We've been starved of decent horror movies since Hammer went belly up.

    I still can't muster up any enthusiasm about it.

    None.
    Nor me
    I’m quite intrigued myself. I’m going this year as I’m on a panel in a fringe event. First time I’ve been to a Tory conference. I’m expecting it to be very different from the Labour one last year which was heaving with lobbyists.
    Which one, if you don't mind me asking?
    “Going for growth: a conservative vision for economic prosperity”
    It looks very interesting, thank you. If I could take time off I would attend. Will video be posted/streamed?
    Not sure, but I suspect probably not. The one last year at Labour wasn’t.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    There's an interplay btwn immigration debates & the birth-rate issue that is only rarely acknowledged. World birth rates are below replacement levels in every continent except Africa. China's popn is already decreasing & almost every country's popn will be shrinking by 2040.+


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    +None of this means we shld hv no immigration controls or that immigration does not present problems of its own. But I think history will look back on the past 25 years & pronounce our high immigration an act of geopolitical genius, massively enhancing the UK's long-term status.

    https://x.com/andrew_lilico/status/1834868657106608423

    The keys with immigrations are to build the housing and infrastructure in advance or at least in parallel, and ensure by the second generation that immigrant communities are fully integrated in terms of language and education and mostly integrated into culture.
    I think also that if the people of a country are content to see their country gently decline in geopolitical terms, and would rather deal with the demographic challenges of a declining population, rather than the infrastructure challenges of a growing population, then in a democracy they should be able to make that choice.

    We've recently had 14 years of a Conservative government promising to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands, which would imply a total level of net migration of 1.4 million during their term of office. Net migration in 2022 and 2023 was above 1.4 million in those two years alone.

    I am generally in favour of increasing people's freedom to move around the world and live where they want, but the democratic deficit is pretty clear.
    Voters want lots of things.
    The voters wanted immediate help with their huge rise in electricity bills. Rishi provided this. Helped many, many families over a cash crisis that was not remotely of the Conservative Government's making.

    Not a single voter mentioned any gratitude on the doorstep. Not one.

    Politically, he should have put it into the NHS.
    I thought it was Gordon Brown who started the Winter Fuel Allowance.
    Surely a reference to the Fuel Price Cap brought in under Truss (albeit as proposed by Miliband)?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720

    algarkirk said:

    The Government of this country is a parody.

    No sooner has Parliament sat down after a long summer break and it all stops again for a month for Conference season. Why?

    It really gives the impression of a political system that exists for itself, not the people.

    I take the line that the less time MPs are in parliament the better…
    Parliament should only sit when it has something useful to do. The default position should be that it isn't sitting. MPs should be volunteers, paid expenses only, with the salary going to unglamorous constituency case workers. Nearly all real accountability from government and ministers is achieved in detailed discussions and exchanges well away from the chamber.
    I agree: the idea that being an MP is a full time job and that they shouldn’t do anything else is contradicted by the fact that almost all members of the government are also MPs. If SKS can be prime minister while being an MP then back benchers should be able to do anything that doesn’t produce an obvious conflict of interest.
    And how would you describe the quality of legislation we get or the level of scrutiny of government ministers and policies?

    If its not working, and we keep doing the same thing, it ain't gonna get any better.
    I’m not sure how those are linked. A lot of MPs do treat it as a full time job at the moment, but by that they seem to mean dealing with problems from their constituents rather than the legislative scrutiny you rightly point out is missing. There is also the problem of blindly voting on party lines of course. But that is not new; WS Gilbert had some choice comments on that in both “HMS Pinafore” and “Iolanthe”.
    I particularly remember the lines

    “but then the prospect of a lot
    of dull MPs in close proximity
    All thinking for themselves is what
    No man can face with equinimity”


    How would you improve it?
    I think MPs should spend less time dealing with constituents’ problems. That really should be the job of a strengthened local government layer. I can’t think of another developed country where the national parliament reps have that kind of level of local activity. Other politicians meet that need: mayors, state governors and senators, regional assemblies and so on.

    Perhaps if we got MPs focused more on national issues and bolstered local democracy and - importantly - tax raising powers, we’d see less NIMBYism creeping into national party politics.
This discussion has been closed.