A fortnight on – politicalbetting.com

FF43 said:

dixiedean said:

I remember being one of a handful of Labour supporters on here, taking a battering every thread.
Wasn't that long ago.

I was actually called deranged for thinking Boris Johnson a suboptimal prime minister.

Yep.
I should have added this was post-Corbyn. Indeed under the leadership of the mercilessly mocked LOTO, who went on to win a majority of 174.

Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.

But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.

WillG said:

RochdalePioneers said:

I love how the blame for moron racist scum burning hotels full of people and desperately trying to attack mosques is "lefties" who apparently should take ownership of their actions.

Unlike said moron racists of course. Who were provoked into it by leftists and aren't responsible for their actions. Or something.

No-one has said this. You are arguing against a completely made up scenario in your own head.

So when you're having a pop at "socially centre-left" people like me your not actually having a pop and nobody said that. Especially you.

As logical an argument as some of those seen in Boro, Pools, Sunderland etc etc etc

WillG said:

Scott_xP said:

WillG said:

Socially centre-left types just like to make up shit to argue against

You just made that shit up

No argument

Ok, fine. Here is my example. DougSeal below said that Leon justified burning libraries. He did nothing of the sort.

He can handle himself. I’ve been on the receiving end of enough shit from Leon. And he has said for several days that the violence we are seeing is caused by government policy. The violence includes torching a library. He therefore justified it. He would doubtless use similar arguments if I, say, justified the violence of the IRA, or the miners in ‘84, because of government policy towards NI or coal mines.

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Reform.

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

,,,

DougSeal said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

WillG said:

DougSeal said:

Can someone explain to me how exactly Leon is being “silenced” on here? From personal experience I know he’s not averse to shutting people down with a few choice ad hominems.

People were actively arguing for him to be banned on the last thread, based on "Islamophobia" when he didn't say anything about Islam. And I was accused of being a Nazi, because I pointed out the authorities did eff all about 10,000 raped kids. It is just how centre-left people are. If they don't like a viewpoint, they don't try to argue against it but slur, insult and ban.

Lol. That’s exactly what Leon does and I’d hardly describe him as centre-left. Indeed the rightists here are so insecure in their arguments they don’t even bother to engage with a contrary viewpoint before resorting to slurs. The knots the right tie themselves in here to justify burning libraries and then insult anyone who dares suggest that might not be a good idea are quite remarkable.

Yes. Because of course I praised the burning of libraries. That’s what I do

I said “justify”. Or, alternatively, “excuse” if you prefer. Not “praise”.

As a 'rightist' on this board, I'm not remotely insecure about my arguments, nor afraid to engage with a contrary viewpoint, nor prone to 'slurs' - those tend to come my way far more than the other way around.

You may get a little pushback on here because of your track record of shilling for Russia - whether it was over the MH17 shootdown or Ukrainian biolabs.

And as those examples show, your 'arguments' are often ludicrous.

I am always happy to learn new things, and sometimes I've found taking a strong position and attracting counter-arguments that can change my initial view to be a good, if unintended outcome.

Needless to say, that hasn't happened with your responses, which are usually puerile smears.

That really doesn't wash.

You show no indication you have learnt from those incidents. I wasn't the one who started calling you 'PutinsGuy'.

'usually puerile smears' ? I'd prefer to call them factual reminders of who you are.

I offer plenty of criticism of Vladimir Putin. I'm certainly not going to do it every time I enter a discussion, like doing 10 hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers just because an intolerant authoritarian turd like you thinks I should demonstrate that I have 'learnt' from those 'incident(s)'

I really couldn't care less whether it was you or some other moron that started calling me 'Putinguy'.

kyf_100 said:

Where does KnightOut stand on the legalisation of drugs, the trans issue, and the right of every upstanding British citizen to concealed carry an M28 Davy Crockett for personal protection?

Drugs - all personal use should be legalised. In fact, it shouldn't even need to be legalised, it should just not be illegal or have anything to do with government, policing or law. Of course the 'Legalise, so it can be taxed and heavily regulated!11' argument can get in the fucking sea. Preferably a sea of used syringes.

Trans - again, people should have complete freedom to do whatever they like to their own bodies, and indulge whatever preferences they choose, with regards clothing, makeup, sexual fantasy and surgery. And others should have the freedom themselves to not indulge anything they find uncomfortable or ridiculous. It's a complex area, so people should be allowed to take on nuanced positions, rather than being forced or coerced into 'picking a side' as is currently the case. I posted on here many years ago (I forget which alias) on the gay wedding cake issue something to the effect of: I want to live in a world where a gay couple have the freedom to get married AND where bakeries have the freedom to refuse to decorate a gay cake for their gay wedding.

Carrrying - absolutely fine, but don't impinge upon the freedoms of others. The natural Libertarian position is clear - we should be more lenient towards anyone acting in self defence when their individual freedoms are compromised (the Tony Martins of this world) and far more severe towards those who make the first move by attacking or threatening.

Overall I'd like to see more a role in 'sorting things out' given to the church and charity sector; people who care rather than big-state civil service jobsworths.

And, yes, I get that most of this sort of stuff is ideologically non-mainstream and doesn't have a Cat's Arse's chance in Hades of ever becoming utopian reality, so in the real world I'm generally fairly pragamatic and take whatever small wins I can.

Instresting stat, the 9.79 winning time today, was the same time set by a very drug-assisted Ben Johnson in Seoul in 1988. That day he was several metres clear of the field, and ran a short-lived world record time. Today, four athletes finished within two hundredths of a second.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Dopermean said:

darkage said:

I just looked at Starmers video. The double standards between the stance taken now on 'far right' rioting and what he said in 2020 about BLM is really obvious. Farage isn't saying much at the moment; he is just waiting for the right time to attack Starmer over this. Starmer may imprison a load of thugs, but the problem of the 'far right' is just going to get bigger. Reform intend to make rapid progress in the north of england, this is a good opportunity for them.

The BLM protests were largely peaceful with only a few arrests, some for social distancing breaches not violent disorder. They weren't torching mosques, libraries or hotels.

That isn't true. There were 300 arrests, of which 20 were for breaching COVID regulations. The 6th June BLM protest there was some serious public disorder.

Then Tommy and his band of merry men turned up the next weekend and it was for a few hours it was very nasty between both the police and then subsections of the two groups.

The other thing with the 2020 events is that there were a large number of police injured, and lots of evidence of criminal damage. One problem is that it is difficult to rely on the reports of the events, the left wing protests are always 'largely peaceful', the 'far right' are always 'thugs causing mindless criminal damage'. Even now, looking at twitter, there are lots of counter protests by the 'left', with people walking around with machetes, random people getting beaten up by vigilante gangs, etc. But every event is explained away, downplayed, or doubt placed on its reliability, with the focus entirely on 'the thuggery of the far right'. So, it does seem there is some kind of bias in play in terms of reporting, and it doesn't require a conspiracy theorist to make a link with the political stance taken by politicians in relation to the two sides - one group is courted and supported, the other is detested, and an existential threat to the political establishment.

Leon said:

kjh said:

moonshine said:

Quite an unedifying pile on against Leon tonight.

Oh come off it. @leon is provocative, posts endlessly and can handle himself robustly. He doesn't need any help or sympathy and probably doesn't appreciate it. I've never seen him not holding his own. Double entendre not intended, but appropriate given his recent postings about socks.

No, I think I’m pretty much done

You'll be back. What will your alias be next time? A black Albanian taxi driver? An American female mechanic? A union-loving train driver? :;)

KnightOut said:

kyf_100 said:

Where does KnightOut stand on the legalisation of drugs, the trans issue, and the right of every upstanding British citizen to concealed carry an M28 Davy Crockett for personal protection?

Drugs - all personal use should be legalised. In fact, it shouldn't even need to be legalised, it should just not be illegal or have anything to do with government, policing or law. Of course the 'Legalise, so it can be taxed and heavily regulated!11' argument can get in the fucking sea. Preferably a sea of used syringes.

Trans - again, people should have complete freedom to do whatever they like to their own bodies, and indulge whatever preferences they choose, with regards clothing, makeup, sexual fantasy and surgery. And others should have the freedom themselves to not indulge anything they find uncomfortable or ridiculous. It's a complex area, so people should be allowed to take on nuanced positions, rather than being forced or coerced into 'picking a side' as is currently the case. I posted on here many years ago (I forget which alias) on the gay wedding cake issue something to the effect of: I want to live in a world where a gay couple have the freedom to get married AND where bakeries have the freedom to refuse to decorate a gay cake for their gay wedding.

Carrrying - absolutely fine, but don't impinge upon the freedoms of others. The natural Libertarian position is clear - we should be more lenient towards anyone acting in self defence when their individual freedoms are compromised (the Tony Martins of this world) and far more severe towards those who make the first move by attacking or threatening.

Overall I'd like to see more a role in 'sorting things out' given to the church and charity sector; people who care rather than big-state civil service jobsworths.

And, yes, I get that most of this sort of stuff is ideologically non-mainstream and doesn't have a Cat's Arse's chance in Hades of ever becoming utopian reality, so in the real world I'm generally fairly pragamatic and take whatever small wins I can.

Pretty sound answers, there. As a libertarian in good standing, your M28 Davy Crockett is in the post...

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Protesting against masturbation?

Oh! You said immigration!

EScrymgeour said:

Silly sod. https://x.com/BexBitchley/status/1820164202293510378/photo/1

I would like PB to know that I constructed a fantastic Huw Edwards-based joke in response to this post, and then thought better of it.

Babbage9 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Leon said:

You know what. I’m nearly done here

If you want to drive every sane or civilised right wing voice off the site then carry on exactly as you are and I will indeed leave. And this time I won’t come back

And this site will turn into an insanely boring pile of shite where centrist lefty dads discuss the fucking west coast main line. And it will finally die

Nonsense.
Some of us are more interested in the East Coast main line.

{draws giant two handed sword}

Heretic !!!!!!

The Midland Main Line's the best! Better than anything the LNER or GWR could produce!!!!!

Surrounded by heresy! cruuuuuussssssaaaaaaadddde!

Hey, come on. The Peak Line and the Settle and Carlisle were both on the MML. No other main route went through anything like it.

I will always put in a vote for the line along the Welsh coastal route up from Aber which seems neglected to me. I am not convinced why!

Very pleasant line, too. Up to Pwllheli certainly. Trundles over the wooden viaduct at Barmouth and under the Harlech castle hill ...

BlancheLivermore said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Its a bit like calling out the actions of Israel without being an antisemite. Its not that hard to take a sensible rational position that inward immigration numbers are too high e.g. the government have dropped the increase in minimum income level, for example its not racist to say I think £29k is too low, I think it should be £35k.

But can it ever be protested in a way that won’t be at least framed as racism?

Basically impossible, in the same way you can't march for Gaza without someone describing it as anti-Semitic or for the environment without you being called a woke snowflake or something.

BlancheLivermore said:

kjh said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Not throwing bricks would be a start.

That’s an extremely useful elimination

I’ve paused my brick throwing

Good. Being a postman you could cause havoc. So many opportunities. Best to use the letterboxes to deliver the mail 😁

PS Also similar advice when it comes to setting fire to things.

moonshine said:

Quite an unedifying pile on against Leon tonight.

Yes. Poor little Leon. We'll lose him if we're not careful.

dixiedean said:

I remember being one of a handful of Labour supporters on here, taking a battering every thread.
Wasn't that long ago.

I wouldn't worry. Give it 6 months and Starmer/Reeves will be as popular as Anusol .

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!

When was the last time a government was elected that didn't promise to reduce immigration?

Oh I get the problem. The Tories got elected on an anti-immigration pledge. Get Brexit Done. Stop Migration. And then exploded it.

So don't vote Tory! For the people who think migration is the top issue, for for 18p Lee and the rest of the FUKers. Do it democratically. Don't smash cars being driven by people you think are muslims.

BlancheLivermore said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Its a bit like calling out the actions of Israel without being an antisemite. Its not that hard to take a sensible rational position that inward immigration numbers are too high e.g. the government have dropped the increase in minimum income level, for example its not racist to say I think £29k is too low, I think it should be £35k.

But can it ever be protested in a way that won’t be at least framed as racism?

Well that is when you get the issues like the anti-Israel demos, you get a load of people tag along who are bad faith actors and its not about specifically Israel, its the Jews. I don't believe the current demos are even like that, it seems a combination of far right / football hooligan types with youngish kids fancying it too.

At lower league grounds e.g. my team Crewe, they are having a lot of problems post COVID with young teenagers getting involved in violence, then of course if some adult wallops them, its the adult that gets in trouble. There was a CH4 doc a couple of months ago, and all these yuff were attacking away fans with bottles etc and the police basically protected them from getting a kicking as its their duty to protect kids.

Fourth down to eighth places in that 100m race were world records for their finishing position. What a brilliant showpiece for sport we saw tonight.

squareroot2 said:

dixiedean said:

I remember being one of a handful of Labour supporters on here, taking a battering every thread.
Wasn't that long ago.

I wouldn't worry. Give it 6 months and Starmer/Reeves will be as popular as Anusol .

They’ve already provided some very welcome relief from a bunch of serious pains in the arse.

Leon said:

kjh said:

moonshine said:

Quite an unedifying pile on against Leon tonight.

Oh come off it. @leon is provocative, posts endlessly and can handle himself robustly. He doesn't need any help or sympathy and probably doesn't appreciate it. I've never seen him not holding his own. Double entendre not intended, but appropriate given his recent postings about socks.

No, I think I’m pretty much done

Why don't you just fuck off and join the Liberal Democrats.

Malmesbury said:

BlancheLivermore said:

kjh said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Not throwing bricks would be a start.

That’s an extremely useful elimination

I’ve paused my brick throwing

Handy tips on non racist protest part 2

Don’t set fire to

1) hotels
2) shops
3) libraries
4) police stations
5) immigrants

Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...

squareroot2 said:

dixiedean said:

I remember being one of a handful of Labour supporters on here, taking a battering every thread.
Wasn't that long ago.

I wouldn't worry. Give it 6 months and Starmer/Reeves will be as popular as Anusol .

A very welcome relief from a long-standing and unbearably annoying condition?

RochdalePioneers said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!

The other way to show you're not a racist is not be a racist claiming that the Southport perp was a migrant muslim, not targeting mosques, not chanting anti-muslim abuse, not stopping only non-whites from driving past you etc etc etc.

The simple truth is that its not possible for these racists to protest in a non-racist way because they are racists.

So reading between your lines, you're saying that there is no way that you would ever approve of people taking to the streets to protest about immigration.

I can see why any mass protest about the issue of immigration is problematical to some degree, because of the potential to make minority communities feel afraid, and of course the tendency for such protests to spill over into violence.

On the other hand though, the right to free assembly probably takes precedence over that and suggests that protests about any political issue however controversial should be allowable, though policed absolutely rigidly to avoid such scenes like those we've witnessed this week.

There's people with children watching nazis try and burn down a hotel.

In early part of 20th century whites in US would take their family and a picnic to watch a lynching.

Then buy postcard photos of the event and send to relatives.

Sandpit said:

Fourth down to eighth places in that 100m race were world records for their finishing position. What a brilliant showpiece for sport we saw tonight.

Astonishing race. I was really not sure who had won. 5 thousandths of a second. Its ridiculous.

Another burning if hotel housing asylum seekers. In Tamworth

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-riots-live-hotel-rotherham-33386398.amp

Tamworth Holiday Inn Express now under attack.

Babbage9 said:

Carnyx said:

Babbage9 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Leon said:

You know what. I’m nearly done here

If you want to drive every sane or civilised right wing voice off the site then carry on exactly as you are and I will indeed leave. And this time I won’t come back

And this site will turn into an insanely boring pile of shite where centrist lefty dads discuss the fucking west coast main line. And it will finally die

Nonsense.
Some of us are more interested in the East Coast main line.

{draws giant two handed sword}

Heretic !!!!!!

The Midland Main Line's the best! Better than anything the LNER or GWR could produce!!!!!

Surrounded by heresy! cruuuuuussssssaaaaaaadddde!

Hey, come on. The Peak Line and the Settle and Carlisle were both on the MML. No other main route went through anything like it.

I will always put in a vote for the line along the Welsh coastal route up from Aber which seems neglected to me. I am not convinced why!

Very pleasant line, too. Up to Pwllheli certainly. Trundles over the wooden viaduct at Barmouth and under the Harlech castle hill ...

Yes, I love the way it swings around Harlech, it is a nice stretch to say the least, with the castle.

Even now has a mixed gauge level crossing at Porthmadoc (or just outside it), I believe, like it used to.

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

This is now sectarian rioting with whites versus non whites all across Britain. We have 30 mini Belfasts around the UK

Congratulations to all the British politicians who strived so mightily to achieve this fantastic outcome despite the foolish warnings of the British people

Is your problem with non-whites or is it with Muslims? Is it skin colour or religion?

How you feel about white Muslims or black Christians?
I'm not sure what is driving you.

My beef is with absurd leftist nostrums like multiculturalism - parallel societies with parallel values. It is a disaster. Also the idea that you can have essentially limitless migration and asylum from any culture worldwide and it won’t cause enormous problems - and that anyone who complains should be labelled and silenced as a racist, which solves all issues

THAT is my beef. It is now plainly apparent that all these policies are destructively stupid

Thanks for the response. So it's not skin colour or religion. It's multiple cultures.

I love London. I think it is the greatest city in the world. And part of what makes it so is the mixture of cultures. I love the diversity of languages, clothes, food, music. It's got energy and surprise.

Would you prefer London to be like Bournemouth? Old white couples, bless them, harmlessly wandering around exploring its biologically diverse gardens and planning their next bridge game.

PS I like the Danish approach.

I like the Norwegian approach. 300 hours of compulsory Norwegian language and cyultiure classes for all new arrivals and those coming in to settle in the country have to live in the county they are assigned for the first 2 years to prevent the development of ghettos. There is nothing to prevent them followng their own cultiures, religions and ways of life unless they conflict with the laws of thir adopted country but they are exepected to understand and abide by those laws and customs and also to integrate.

Its a system that works. Norway currently has an immigrant population (either first or second generation) of over 20% and yet you would never think that when looking at their social cohesion, their laws and culture.

Malmesbury said:

BlancheLivermore said:

kjh said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Not throwing bricks would be a start.

That’s an extremely useful elimination

I’ve paused my brick throwing

Handy tips on non racist protest part 2

Don’t set fire to

1) hotels
2) shops
3) libraries
4) police stations
5) immigrants

That’s extremely helpful too

I’ll stop doing every one of those things that I was just about to do before being infected by your wisdom

But can that wisdom give me any advice on how to protest about insanely high levels of immigration without being called a racist?

Another clear sign you aren't there for a genuine protest, you come on your e-bike fully covered in black with balaclava.

WillG said:

Leon said:

DougSeal said:

WillG said:

DougSeal said:

Can someone explain to me how exactly Leon is being “silenced” on here? From personal experience I know he’s not averse to shutting people down with a few choice ad hominems.

People were actively arguing for him to be banned on the last thread, based on "Islamophobia" when he didn't say anything about Islam. And I was accused of being a Nazi, because I pointed out the authorities did eff all about 10,000 raped kids. It is just how centre-left people are. If they don't like a viewpoint, they don't try to argue against it but slur, insult and ban.

Lol. That’s exactly what Leon does and I’d hardly describe him as centre-left. Indeed the rightists here are so insecure in their arguments they don’t even bother to engage with a contrary viewpoint before resorting to slurs. The knots the right tie themselves in here to justify burning libraries and then insult anyone who dares suggest that might not be a good idea are quite remarkable.

Yes. Because of course I praised the burning of libraries. That’s what I do

Socially centre-left types just like to make up shit to argue against, because they can't argue your actual viewpoints. It's why I was accused of blaming victims on the last thread by TSE. When the only people I ever blamed were the authorities and the media. It's like their brains stop engaging when they see it is a viewpoint outside the centre-left consensus. They just assume you have said their what their stereotype view would say. Regardless of what you actually said.

You said these white riots were understandable because of asian grooming gangs. Not sure what 'argument' that is meant to trigger.

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

kjh said:

moonshine said:

Quite an unedifying pile on against Leon tonight.

Oh come off it. @leon is provocative, posts endlessly and can handle himself robustly. He doesn't need any help or sympathy and probably doesn't appreciate it. I've never seen him not holding his own. Double entendre not intended, but appropriate given his recent postings about socks.

No, I think I’m pretty much done

Why don't you just fuck off and join the Liberal Democrats.

This reminds me of the story of how.Alex Salmond was supposed to have become a Scot Nat. In the early '70s after a row, his English girlfriend said "Weil if that's how you feel, Alex, why don't you just fuck off and join rhr the Scottish Nationalists, then?"

Which, according to various different versions of the legend, he did, and spent about five hours walking to the nearest SNP office, in the same day.

WhisperingOracle said:

Which, according to various different versions of the legend, he did, and spent about five hours walking to the nearest SNP office, in the same day.

Fat Eck walking for 5 hours?

*cough*bullshit*cough*

moonshine said:

Just watched Starmer’s speech from this afternoon. An odd statement. The law and order aspect in terms of wanting to restore order was on point.

But he then completely undid that with a frankly incredible insinuation that white racists have held a monopoly over violence this week. Anyone with a smart phone can see that’s not been the case and that we’re facing something more complex than a hardcore of No Surrender types causing unprovoked trouble.

If you don't want to be insinuated don't take part in racist violent thuggery, or encourage it. Starmer isn't obliged to say, and for the sake of balance what about these other people?

I'm content for the courts to deal with the lot of them. Starmer isn't involved.

Richard_Tyndall said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

This is now sectarian rioting with whites versus non whites all across Britain. We have 30 mini Belfasts around the UK

Congratulations to all the British politicians who strived so mightily to achieve this fantastic outcome despite the foolish warnings of the British people

Is your problem with non-whites or is it with Muslims? Is it skin colour or religion?

How you feel about white Muslims or black Christians?
I'm not sure what is driving you.

My beef is with absurd leftist nostrums like multiculturalism - parallel societies with parallel values. It is a disaster. Also the idea that you can have essentially limitless migration and asylum from any culture worldwide and it won’t cause enormous problems - and that anyone who complains should be labelled and silenced as a racist, which solves all issues

THAT is my beef. It is now plainly apparent that all these policies are destructively stupid

Thanks for the response. So it's not skin colour or religion. It's multiple cultures.

I love London. I think it is the greatest city in the world. And part of what makes it so is the mixture of cultures. I love the diversity of languages, clothes, food, music. It's got energy and surprise.

Would you prefer London to be like Bournemouth? Old white couples, bless them, harmlessly wandering around exploring its biologically diverse gardens and planning their next bridge game.

PS I like the Danish approach.

I like the Norwegian approach. 300 hours of compulsory Norwegian language and cyultiure classes for all new arrivals and those coming in to settle in the country have to live in the county they are assigned for the first 2 years to prevent the development of ghettos. There is nothing to prevent them followng their own cultiures, religions and ways of life unless they conflict with the laws of thir adopted country but they are exepected to understand and abide by those laws and customs and also to integrate.

Its a system that works. Norway currently has an immigrant population (either first or second generation) of over 20% and yet you would never think that when looking at their social cohesion, their laws and culture.

Norway has taken extraordinary numbers of refugees too. It's been quite an amazing success story.

Carnyx said:

squareroot2 said:

dixiedean said:

I remember being one of a handful of Labour supporters on here, taking a battering every thread.
Wasn't that long ago.

I wouldn't worry. Give it 6 months and Starmer/Reeves will be as popular as Anusol .

A very welcome relief from a long-standing and unbearably annoying condition?

It doesn't solve the problem. It only provides temporary relief.....

Richard_Tyndall said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

This is now sectarian rioting with whites versus non whites all across Britain. We have 30 mini Belfasts around the UK

Congratulations to all the British politicians who strived so mightily to achieve this fantastic outcome despite the foolish warnings of the British people

Is your problem with non-whites or is it with Muslims? Is it skin colour or religion?

How you feel about white Muslims or black Christians?
I'm not sure what is driving you.

My beef is with absurd leftist nostrums like multiculturalism - parallel societies with parallel values. It is a disaster. Also the idea that you can have essentially limitless migration and asylum from any culture worldwide and it won’t cause enormous problems - and that anyone who complains should be labelled and silenced as a racist, which solves all issues

THAT is my beef. It is now plainly apparent that all these policies are destructively stupid

Thanks for the response. So it's not skin colour or religion. It's multiple cultures.

I love London. I think it is the greatest city in the world. And part of what makes it so is the mixture of cultures. I love the diversity of languages, clothes, food, music. It's got energy and surprise.

Would you prefer London to be like Bournemouth? Old white couples, bless them, harmlessly wandering around exploring its biologically diverse gardens and planning their next bridge game.

PS I like the Danish approach.

I like the Norwegian approach. 300 hours of compulsory Norwegian language and cyultiure classes for all new arrivals and those coming in to settle in the country have to live in the county they are assigned for the first 2 years to prevent the development of ghettos. There is nothing to prevent them followng their own cultiures, religions and ways of life unless they conflict with the laws of thir adopted country but they are exepected to understand and abide by those laws and customs and also to integrate.

Its a system that works. Norway currently has an immigrant population (either first or second generation) of over 20% and yet you would never think that when looking at their social cohesion, their laws and culture.

Interesting.

squareroot2 said:

Carnyx said:

squareroot2 said:

dixiedean said:

I remember being one of a handful of Labour supporters on here, taking a battering every thread.
Wasn't that long ago.

I wouldn't worry. Give it 6 months and Starmer/Reeves will be as popular as Anusol .

A very welcome relief from a long-standing and unbearably annoying condition?

It doesn't solve the problem. It only provides temporary relief.....

It;s better than applying Tabasco Sauce to it, though.

Are there any left wingers here who definitely aren’t racist and want immigration reduced?

Are there any left wingers who don’t think Islam is a great thing to import en masse?

Are there any left wingers at least a little bit scared of Islamism?

rottenborough said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

Barnesian said:

Leon said:

This is now sectarian rioting with whites versus non whites all across Britain. We have 30 mini Belfasts around the UK

Congratulations to all the British politicians who strived so mightily to achieve this fantastic outcome despite the foolish warnings of the British people

Is your problem with non-whites or is it with Muslims? Is it skin colour or religion?

How you feel about white Muslims or black Christians?
I'm not sure what is driving you.

My beef is with absurd leftist nostrums like multiculturalism - parallel societies with parallel values. It is a disaster. Also the idea that you can have essentially limitless migration and asylum from any culture worldwide and it won’t cause enormous problems - and that anyone who complains should be labelled and silenced as a racist, which solves all issues

THAT is my beef. It is now plainly apparent that all these policies are destructively stupid

Thanks for the response. So it's not skin colour or religion. It's multiple cultures.

I love London. I think it is the greatest city in the world. And part of what makes it so is the mixture of cultures. I love the diversity of languages, clothes, food, music. It's got energy and surprise.

Would you prefer London to be like Bournemouth? Old white couples, bless them, harmlessly wandering around exploring its biologically diverse gardens and planning their next bridge game.

PS I like the Danish approach.

I like the Norwegian approach. 300 hours of compulsory Norwegian language and cyultiure classes for all new arrivals and those coming in to settle in the country have to live in the county they are assigned for the first 2 years to prevent the development of ghettos. There is nothing to prevent them followng their own cultiures, religions and ways of life unless they conflict with the laws of thir adopted country but they are exepected to understand and abide by those laws and customs and also to integrate.

Its a system that works. Norway currently has an immigrant population (either first or second generation) of over 20% and yet you would never think that when looking at their social cohesion, their laws and culture.

Interesting.

Apologies for the numerous horrible spelling mistakes. My typing skills have never been great

BlancheLivermore said:

Are there any left wingers here who definitely aren’t racist and want immigration reduced?

Are there any left wingers who don’t think Islam is a great thing to import en masse?

Are there any left wingers at least a little bit scared of Islamism?

Are there any right wingers on here who don’t speak in strawmen and non sequiturs?

JosiasJessop said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

JosiasJessop said:

Babbage9 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

JosiasJessop said:

Malmesbury said:

Northern_Al said:

Leon said:

You know what. I’m nearly done here

If you want to drive every sane or civilised right wing voice off the site then carry on exactly as you are and I will indeed leave. And this time I won’t come back

And this site will turn into an insanely boring pile of shite where centrist lefty dads discuss the fucking west coast main line. And it will finally die

Nonsense.
Some of us are more interested in the East Coast main line.

{draws giant two handed sword}

Heretic !!!!!!

The Midland Main Line's the best! Better than anything the LNER or GWR could produce!!!!!

Surrounded by heresy! cruuuuuussssssaaaaaaadddde!

Hey, come on. The Peak Line and the Settle and Carlisle were both on the MML. No other main route went through anything like it.

I will always put in a vote for the line along the Welsh coastal route up from Aber which seems neglected to me. I am not convinced why!

A good vote. I might also mention the Cumbrian Coast Line. Though I've never actually travelled the line, I've walked the coast alongside it for miles. A much-neglected part of Cumbria, as I think Ms Free often says.

I've done it, back in 2018. Had to postpone my trip by a day because of a cancellation (did Carlisle to Glasgow via Dumfries/Kilmarnock instead), but the delay was worth it!

ISTR there were double-headed Class 37s puling passenger trains along it a handful of years ago. With hindsight I wish I'd gone up there to travel behind them.

Every journey is improved when you have Class 37s providing the power.

TimS said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Malmesbury said:

BlancheLivermore said:

kjh said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Not throwing bricks would be a start.

That’s an extremely useful elimination

I’ve paused my brick throwing

Handy tips on non racist protest part 2

Don’t set fire to

1) hotels
2) shops
3) libraries
4) police stations
5) immigrants

Don't start your criticism of immigration levels with "The Muslims" or "The Jews"...

More generally, if you’re protesting then protest against the government (this one or the previous one) and the policy, not against the people it concerns. Or even, as in this case, attacking people who aren’t necessarily immigrants but have the same religion or skin colour as some immigrants.

It’s a simple distinction. Protesting Israeli action in Gaza: fine. Firebombing British synagogues: not fine. Protesting abortion policy: fine. Standing outside a clinic heckling young women: not fine. Protesting against vivisection: fine. Sending death threats to people working at vivisection labs: not fine.

It not rocket science. See the anti-Brexit marches.

Nunu5 said:

DougSeal said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

williamglenn said:

RochdalePioneers said:

BlancheLivermore said:

What’s the non-racist way of protesting against mass immigration?

Vote! If you're unhappy with the way the country is being run, vote!

When was the last time a government was elected that didn't promise to reduce immigration?

Oh I get the problem. The Tories got elected on an anti-immigration pledge. Get Brexit Done. Stop Migration. And then exploded it.

So don't vote Tory! For the people who think migration is the top issue, for for 18p Lee and the rest of the FUKers. Do it democratically. Don't smash cars being driven by people you think are muslims.

It's not just the Tories. For example New Labour promised a complete end to chain migration in 2005.

Then persuade people to vote for a party other than Labour or the Tories.

How many times do people have to vote before they are heard?

what do you want to do with immigration?

because of Brexit we have the powers to reduce legal immigration and the changes that have been introduced will reduce legal immigration. it's the politicians make the decisions but there's never easy answers to complex questions.

do we want to get foreign students to go to British universities and essentially export university degreed?
do we want people to work in care homes as carers and cleaners when there's not enough people to do those jobs?
what happens when we tell people they can't bring their families?

when it comes to illegal immigration it's only possible to deal with the issues causing people to come here, support them closer to where they came from and work with our European neighbours to deal with it together.