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Sunak’s strategy is working – politicalbetting.com

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  • novanova Posts: 683

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    There were plenty of polls in the run up to the 2017 election that were close to the final result.

    YouGov did their first MRP I believe, and that was really close. I remember talking about it during the GOTV sessions during the day. The response on the doorstep in my own marginal was such that I doubt many Labour members who were knocking on doors were that shocked.

    This time round, I doubt many expect that it will really be 500+ seats. I think most will be happy with any kind of solid majority.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,294

    Sean_F said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    I expect the next Deltapoll will place Reform ahead of the Conservatives.

    No Prime Minister has been more hated than Sunak, in my lifetime.
    I am not a voting expert (I'm not an expert about anything really) but the inefficiency of the Reform vote (and the UKIP vote before it) is something that has only really fully become apparent to me this election. I really would have thought that it would be more efficient - a lot more focussed geographically in Brexity type left-behind towns. They are not anywhere in Scotland, that is surely a help. Not anywhere in London either. So I just can't fathom why that 16% is spreading out so thinly.
    Some of this is because there’s been a big swing to Labour in those sorts of areas and therefore that will block Reform’s way to the seats.

    However, if Reform do manage to get themselves into the high teens on polling day, the chances are that they’ll do a bit better on seat count than expected, I suspect.

    I would more than mildly amused if Reform won half a dozen seats but NOT Clacton!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Lowest Opinium Tory score.

    Ever.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    edited June 22

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Greens on 9 wow
    The Green support I find most difficult to explain. They are not a fringe political force, but they are not major either. I find it hard to believe all 'true' leftwing people are voting Green as Labour would not be at 40% with centre left and centre (and some centre right) alone. In the South the LDs poll better, and in most of the country the Greens are barely present even with some good local gains in the last few years.

    So how are they getting to 9%?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,727
    edited June 22
    nova said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    There were plenty of polls in the run up to the 2017 election that were close to the final result.

    YouGov did their first MRP I believe, and that was really close. I remember talking about it during the GOTV sessions during the day. The response on the doorstep in my own marginal was such that I doubt many Labour members who were knocking on doors were that shocked.

    This time round, I doubt many expect that it will really be 500+ seats. I think most will be happy with any kind of solid majority.
    Even the official exit poll is going to struggle to model the complexity of this election. Kudos to them if the seat projections are anywhere close, especially for the minor parties.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,325

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    @BigJohnOwls fans please explain.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    To be tested in 2029 as Prince William stands as head of the Royalist Party.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    Sean_F said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    I expect the next Deltapoll will place Reform ahead of the Conservatives.

    No Prime Minister has been more hated than Sunak, in my lifetime.
    I am not a voting expert (I'm not an expert about anything really) but the inefficiency of the Reform vote (and the UKIP vote before it) is something that has only really fully become apparent to me this election. I really would have thought that it would be more efficient - a lot more focussed geographically in Brexity type left-behind towns. They are not anywhere in Scotland, that is surely a help. Not anywhere in London either. So I just can't fathom why that 16% is spreading out so thinly.
    Some of this is because there’s been a big swing to Labour in those sorts of areas and therefore that will block Reform’s way to the seats.

    However, if Reform do manage to get themselves into the high teens on polling day, the chances are that they’ll do a bit better on seat count than expected, I suspect.

    I would more than mildly amused if Reform won half a dozen seats but NOT Clacton!
    That would be a bit of a banter result it has to be said.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Greens on 9 wow
    It'll be astonishing if they get anywhere close to that.

    Doesn't mean they're not in with a shout of holding their existing seat and winning all three targets though.

    I think one of our posters also suggested the possibility of a freak result in one of the IoW seats, based on the Tory vote splintering in several directions at once.

    Anyway, not beyond the realms of possibility that the Greens could win one quarter as many votes as Reform, but Reform could end up with one quarter as many seats as the Greens.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,783
    EPG said:

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    It's hotting up in that one Reform/Green marginal.
    That's two poor polls from pollsters (Savanta, Opinium) which have been generous to the Conservatives in times past.

    I suspect that's a record low Conservative VI from Opinium (certainly under Sunak).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,727
    kle4 said:

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Greens on 9 wow
    The Green support I find most difficult to explain. They are not a fringe political force, but they are not major either. I find it hard to believe all 'true' leftwing people are voting Green as Labour would not be at 40% with centre left and centre (and some centre right) alone. In the South the LDs poll better, and in most of the country the Greens are barely present even with some good local gains in the last few years.

    So how are they getting to 9%?
    A lot of support from younger voters once they’re confident the Tories are on their way out?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    How far down the tree does that go? Is Mike Tindall going to get criticised for popping in and voting Lib Dem? (he strikes me as a Lib Dem)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    Nigel Farage would be more convincing in saying he is not Nigel Farage than saying he is not a Russian apologist.

    After all, he probably says his own name less often than he says apologies for Russian atrocities.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,193
    There is something definitely in the water at Telegraph towers.

    The media has led the country into an anti-Tory fervour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/the-media-has-led-the-country-into-an-anti-tory-fervour/
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,602

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic - TSE has those click-bait headlines sorted now!

    If the movement cited dictated the votes of all concerned that would work out as a 1% or 2% closure of the gap. Meanwhile the three gold standard polling companies (on past record) have the gap at 17-21%. Thoush they do all also have the Cons 5-9% clear of Ref UK

    Yes, I decided to ditch my usual subtle style and go for the clickbait headlines.
    I miss the Shakespeare.

    Did you decide quoting Shakespeare was a custom more honoured in the breach than in the observance?
    I do have a few more Shakespeare inspired headlines coming up.

    It was sheer luck that so many Macbeth quotes seemed apt for the Humza Yousaf ditching the Greens/getting replaced threads.
    No luck about it: there is a tide in the affairs of men...
    Books will be written about how Richi chased the ebbing tide all the way out, and then got swamped
    Not according to Laura Kuenssberg.

    She, and she says Labour do not believe the polls.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722eezx9n4o

    Neither do I. Shy Tories, Rishi's Labour tax bomb, don't knows, punish Nigel surge and don't let Labour get a landslide surgecould all happen.
    The BBC has a standard script - they always say the same thing every GE.

    I'm not joking. You watch a recording of the BBC1 10pm news the night before every GE in the last 30 to 40 years and they always say:

    - Politicians all feeling nervous
    - They don't think polls match what they're hearing on the ground
    - Reports of unusual movements in marginals
    - Seat totals are very unpredictable if marginals are moving differently

    Note they never ever say which way the movements are or which party is expecting to do better or worse than expected.

    It's basically a standard playbook to cover all possible eventualities.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,325

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Swingbackback?
    I think their methodology accounts for swingback so possibly just unwind as we are now only eleven days out.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,629
    DougSeal said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    If you think that Labour is going to do worse in seats than it did when Corbyn humiliatingly lost the 2017 election to a dead duck like Theresa May I’m happy to offer real money. The party led by your boy failed to get as many votes as another party. That’s how politics fucking works. You still fail to grasp that even a good second place is the first loser don’t you?
    I have already got £100 at 8/1 with Sky Bet that SKS gets less than the 12.9m Jezza got in 2017 thanks.

    Current price with them is now 10/11 did you miss the 8/1?
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Good evening

    To all those conservatives thinking of voting Labour or any other party but absolutely do not want Farage to have a future in the conservative party, then the only way to do that is to vote conservative notwithstanding so many doubts to ensure a conservative party has enough seats to provide a non Farage opposition

    I have just posted our 2 votes for our conservative

    Voting conservative will not stop Starmer becoming PM with a substantial majority

    Good that your wife let you post them. Did she come with you to make sure you didn't put them in the dog poo bin by mistake?
    Unnecessary and insulting but then I expected it
    At least your household is doing its little bit to balance off all those in Tower Hamlets where Tories so often allege that it’s the man of the house who gets to fill in the postal votes.
    Another silly post - you haven't got over it have you

    And I would just say my wife would find your post insulting

    Just don’t you start wasting our time telling us how you will leave the Tories if ever Farage becomes leader. You can’t make mugs of us three times running.
    I will not support the conservatives with Farage as leader and to suggest such a thing is just your bitterness sadly

    Read my comments which rejects everything he stands for and I would be politically homeless

    Why do you think I am appealing to all conservatives to vote conservative to isolate Farage

    And by the way I resigned from the conservative party two years ago
    The issue is, you have said you would not support the Conservatives after Partygate, after Truss, after the D-Day debacle, yet in the end you still find a reason to support them.

    That is your absolute right of course but don't be surprised if no one believes you wouldn't support them under Farage.
    I have said I will not support Farage and to suggest I would is just an exercise in trying to discredit my change 9f view which was 3xplained on here and indeed @Heathener and others supported that decision

    I have been married to my dear wife for 60 years and I can affirm on that marriage I will not support Farage
    BS
    You are making a mistake here. For you, Johnson and Farage are more or less in the same category and you are failing to account for the fact that many other people see them as very different characters.
    That’s missing the point.

    Every PB’er can see that G, or G’s wife, or both of them, are tribal Tory voters who when it comes to it will always find whatever reason they can to justify voting Tory. There’s nothing wrong with that - it’s essentially the HY position (who incidentally G has spent many of his own posts criticising). What is so insulting to the rest of us is that everything he posts meantime is essentially dishonest, whether deliberately or otherwise.
    Just stop being a total arsehole - there is no "us" here.
    And if it's not deliberately it's not dishonest. I am guessing (not having been here long enough to know) that G's mental journey has been like mine. Post partygate and Pincher I would have laid me voting Tory at 100/1. Given my fear of supermajorities and Reform and my useful interactions with my Tory MP in the last year I will probably now do so. Tempora mutantur nos et mutamur in illis. Why is this hard to understand?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    edited June 22

    There is something definitely in the water at Telegraph towers.

    The media has led the country into an anti-Tory fervour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/the-media-has-led-the-country-into-an-anti-tory-fervour/

    The media can generally not make up its mind whether to believe the media has more influence than it does, -and thus think everything the media does is important - or whether to believe the media (usually the other side of it) no longer has the kind of influence people (mostly politicians) claim it has.

    I'll say the same thing when Corbynites moaned in the same way - it's the job of a politician to overcome a hostile media, if one is faced, not cry about it.

    But maybe they in particular are just realising than boosting Reform and Farage may have negative consequences.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544

    There is something definitely in the water at Telegraph towers.

    The media has led the country into an anti-Tory fervour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/the-media-has-led-the-country-into-an-anti-tory-fervour/

    They've been drinking their own piss.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,212

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gen-z-millennial-voting-election-b2566728.html
    Youth voter strike on the cards. Won't help the super majority

    Don't vote, can't moan.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,629
    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    How far down the tree does that go? Is Mike Tindall going to get criticised for popping in and voting Lib Dem? (he strikes me as a Lib Dem)
    Prince Harry outed himself as a Corbynite in his book
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Brittany Ferries do that sometimes on the Saint Malo route. They can fill the ship with motorists, who pay full whack for car+cabin. If you travel by foot/bike, you're taking up a cabin that would otherwise be used by a higher-paying motorist, so they're passing up revenue.

    So either they say "sorry, no foot/bike spaces available" or they charge you something not far off the car rate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Lowest Opinium Tory score.

    Ever.
    I don't believe that. The next one will probably be worse.

    But I believe it is the lowest score to date.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    How far down the tree does that go? Is Mike Tindall going to get criticised for popping in and voting Lib Dem? (he strikes me as a Lib Dem)
    Prince Harry outed himself as a Corbynite in his book
    And, separately, a bit of a fool and an oversharer.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527
    edited June 22

    DougSeal said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    If you think that Labour is going to do worse in seats than it did when Corbyn humiliatingly lost the 2017 election to a dead duck like Theresa May I’m happy to offer real money. The party led by your boy failed to get as many votes as another party. That’s how politics fucking works. You still fail to grasp that even a good second place is the first loser don’t you?
    I have already got £100 at 8/1 with Sky Bet that SKS gets less than the 12.9m Jezza got in 2017 thanks.

    Current price with them is now 10/11 did you miss the 8/1?
    You spectacularly miss the point I’m making. The 12m Corbyn got in 2017 was less than the 13.6m May’s Tories got. He lost. He fucked up. He’s a failure who condemned us to a whole series of Tory victories. This is about beating the Conservatives, not history. How much have you got on the result that matters, you strange Tory helper?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    MikeL said:

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    On topic - TSE has those click-bait headlines sorted now!

    If the movement cited dictated the votes of all concerned that would work out as a 1% or 2% closure of the gap. Meanwhile the three gold standard polling companies (on past record) have the gap at 17-21%. Thoush they do all also have the Cons 5-9% clear of Ref UK

    Yes, I decided to ditch my usual subtle style and go for the clickbait headlines.
    I miss the Shakespeare.

    Did you decide quoting Shakespeare was a custom more honoured in the breach than in the observance?
    I do have a few more Shakespeare inspired headlines coming up.

    It was sheer luck that so many Macbeth quotes seemed apt for the Humza Yousaf ditching the Greens/getting replaced threads.
    No luck about it: there is a tide in the affairs of men...
    Books will be written about how Richi chased the ebbing tide all the way out, and then got swamped
    Not according to Laura Kuenssberg.

    She, and she says Labour do not believe the polls.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722eezx9n4o

    Neither do I. Shy Tories, Rishi's Labour tax bomb, don't knows, punish Nigel surge and don't let Labour get a landslide surgecould all happen.
    The BBC has a standard script - they always say the same thing every GE.

    I'm not joking. You watch a recording of the BBC1 10pm news the night before every GE in the last 30 to 40 years and they always say:

    - Politicians all feeling nervous
    - They don't think polls match what they're hearing on the ground
    - Reports of unusual movements in marginals
    - Seat totals are very unpredictable if marginals are moving differently

    Note they never ever say which way the movements are or which party is expecting to do better or worse than expected.

    It's basically a standard playbook to cover all possible eventualities.
    Well now you've gone and spoiled all the fun, it's like revealing a magic trick.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Proposed electoral reform to modernise the nation:

    Adopt the Eurovision voting system with the Royal Family playing the role of the judges. The points awarded by the Royals would count for 50% of the total.

    Declarations would be made by videolink to a live venue where candidates would sit together in the green room.
    Can we make it like 1990s Eurovision, where the votes for some of the more distant members of the RF sound like they're being sent from Malta using paper cups connected with waxed string?

    Allo Prince Richard, Allo Prince Richard? Quels sont les votes du jury du Prince Richard?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,629
    pigeon said:

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Greens on 9 wow
    It'll be astonishing if they get anywhere close to that.

    Doesn't mean they're not in with a shout of holding their existing seat and winning all three targets though.

    I think one of our posters also suggested the possibility of a freak result in one of the IoW seats, based on the Tory vote splintering in several directions at once.

    Anyway, not beyond the realms of possibility that the Greens could win one quarter as many votes as Reform, but Reform could end up with one quarter as many seats as the Greens.
    I think Birkenhead may be a surprise Green gain DYOR
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210

    There is something definitely in the water at Telegraph towers.

    The media has led the country into an anti-Tory fervour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/the-media-has-led-the-country-into-an-anti-tory-fervour/

    You would have thought a conservative newspaper would insist on "the media have..."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,212
    edited June 22
    HYUFD said:

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Still Tories also remain clearly ahead of Reform with Opinium too (again largely taken pre Farage on Panorama).

    Not that brilliant for Labour either voteshare wise at least, only on Corbyn 2017 levels and 3% below Blair 1997 levels
    My Labour 39% the day the election was called looking very close.

    The 33% for the Tories? Not so much. But they will still be WELL above 20%. They have not lost north of half their vote since 2019. No way.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,763
    In case anyone wants a nosey, Sky News at 19:48

    https://www.youtube.com/live/oJUvTVdTMyY?si=HPFr0xOPMJb65inZ
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Asking for a friend. What's the magic number when majority becomes "super-majority"?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,527

    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    How far down the tree does that go? Is Mike Tindall going to get criticised for popping in and voting Lib Dem? (he strikes me as a Lib Dem)
    Prince Harry outed himself as a Corbynite in his book
    Doesn’t surprise me. They both hate Britain.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671

    Sean_F said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    I expect the next Deltapoll will place Reform ahead of the Conservatives.

    No Prime Minister has been more hated than Sunak, in my lifetime.
    I am not a voting expert (I'm not an expert about anything really) but the inefficiency of the Reform vote (and the UKIP vote before it) is something that has only really fully become apparent to me this election. I really would have thought that it would be more efficient - a lot more focussed geographically in Brexity type left-behind towns. They are not anywhere in Scotland, that is surely a help. Not anywhere in London either. So I just can't fathom why that 16% is spreading out so thinly.
    because reform (and UKIP before that) have no ground game. i.e. they don't know how to win a FPTP election.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,629

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    @BigJohnOwls fans please explain.
    Explain that Lab are going to get less votes than 2017.

    Massive win on my only decent size bet this GE
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,783


    Not according to Laura Kuenssberg.

    She, and she says Labour do not believe the polls.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722eezx9n4o

    Neither do I. Shy Tories, Rishi's Labour tax bomb, don't knows, punish Nigel surge and don't let Labour get a landslide surgecould all happen.

    Back to Stodge's Tenth Law of Politics - you may hope and believe something can't happen but that usually means it will.

    It was the same in 1997 - Labour didn't believe what was happening because nothing like it had happened before. The Conservatives were the same. Both were saying even on the cusp of polling day it was close etc, etc.

    Others knew but didn't believe what their eyes, ears and data were telling them.

    It's a similar position now - nobody believes Labour will get 500 seats and the Conservatives 100 seats and yet the data and anecdotal information they must be seeing at Labour and Conservative HQ will be telling them something they still refuse to accept.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,705

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Asking for a friend. What's the magic number when majority becomes "super-majority"?

    When the new PM shows up with his underpants on the outside of his trousers...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,304

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    @BigJohnOwls fans please explain.
    My suspicion is Opinium methodology harsh on Labour, generous for Greens. Certainly their recent methodology change week dropped Labour -4 or more same moment everyone else had them static or up. 61% LLG would not surprise me if TV gave us Lab 44 Lib Dem 15 in actual result. Don’t bet on Labour ending in 30s when poll of polls still has Labour in 40s before TV.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 781
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Been bombed to bits and not entirely recovered. My favourite bits are Old Pourtsmouth - the Point where this cartoon was drawn - and the view from the outside coffee tables at Priddy's Hard (the old ammunition depot oppposite). And Portchester Castle.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/788317
    Portchester Castle is the distillation of English history.
    Saxon shore fort built.by the Romans 1600 years ago.
    Rebuilt by Henry Ii iirc.
    Part of Henry V's fleet set sail from here for France.
    Surrounded by Georgian houses.
    Used for Napoleonic prisoners of war who built a theatre in the keep.
    Victorian church in the bailey.
    Cricket ground in the bailey still in use.
    Stand atop the keep and see the whole of Portsmouth harbour.

    One of my favourite places in the world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gen-z-millennial-voting-election-b2566728.html
    Youth voter strike on the cards. Won't help the super majority

    Don't vote, can't moan.
    Huge numbers of younger people feel disenfranchised by the political parties and are not going to vote, exclusive polling for The Independent shows.

    According to research carried out by Techne UK, around four in 10 people – 41 per cent – aged 18 to 34 have either not registered to vote (24 per cent) or are registered but have decided not to go to the ballot box (17 per cent) next month.


    It's curious how some people will always vote no matter how disappointed, whilst others may not even start and it becomes a habit.

    I get feeling like the young are getting shafted - I'm only just out of that demographic band myself, and it is true - but without wanting to pin the blame on them, sitting things out strikes me as an ineffective way of changing that.

    Governments will continue to get elected, and if they can do so despite younger people not turning out, that will inevitably have an impact on what actions they take.

    Or already has.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alexa, show me what doubling down looks like:

    Writing in the Daily Telegraph, the Reform UK leader said he had never been an "apologist or supporter of [Russian President Vladimir] Putin" but that "if you poke the Russian bear with a stick, don’t be surprised if he responds".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722pn07w99o

    I'm not a believer in the axiom that you should 'ignore everything after the but'...but in this case I will make an exception.

    He could have avoided even this minor furore if he was not a true believer, but clearly he is - he genuinely thinks democratic organisational expansion is justification for Russian invasions.

    His protestations he is not an apologist are laughably insincere as he spews forth apologies over and over again.
    It might not bite. There are probably enough people who agree with him, or who think the Russian invasion is a bit shit but it's not our responsibility to get involved.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,473

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Brittany Ferries do that sometimes on the Saint Malo route. They can fill the ship with motorists, who pay full whack for car+cabin. If you travel by foot/bike, you're taking up a cabin that would otherwise be used by a higher-paying motorist, so they're passing up revenue.

    So either they say "sorry, no foot/bike spaces available" or they charge you something not far off the car rate.
    Is there a seat-only price? Sometimes, in warmer climes, a "deck space" is available, where you take a sleeping bag and sleep outside.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited June 22

    There is something definitely in the water at Telegraph towers.

    The media has led the country into an anti-Tory fervour

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/22/the-media-has-led-the-country-into-an-anti-tory-fervour/

    They've been drinking their own piss.
    Does Casino still boil his? Maybe he could get a contract to supply the Torygraph...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,193
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,148
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Been bombed to bits and not entirely recovered. My favourite bits are Old Pourtsmouth - the Point where this cartoon was drawn - and the view from the outside coffee tables at Priddy's Hard (the old ammunition depot oppposite). And Portchester Castle.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/788317
    There are many big and little gems in Portsmouth - and many areas of extreme shittiness. I was there a few weeks ago, and I think it's improved in the last fifteen years, since we got married there (not that there's a connection...). Like many urban areas, its problems are hard to solve. But the reduced role of the Royal Navy in the west of the city, and the increasing tourism, helps massively.

    They ought to make more of the Brunel connection though, and Dickens. Oh, and Arnie lived there for a period as well! I wonder if he'll be back?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679
    Has Johnny Mercer been vindicated? I noticed people were calling him all sorts yesterday.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    kle4 said:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gen-z-millennial-voting-election-b2566728.html
    Youth voter strike on the cards. Won't help the super majority

    Don't vote, can't moan.
    Huge numbers of younger people feel disenfranchised by the political parties and are not going to vote, exclusive polling for The Independent shows.

    According to research carried out by Techne UK, around four in 10 people – 41 per cent – aged 18 to 34 have either not registered to vote (24 per cent) or are registered but have decided not to go to the ballot box (17 per cent) next month.


    It's curious how some people will always vote no matter how disappointed, whilst others may not even start and it becomes a habit.

    I get feeling like the young are getting shafted - I'm only just out of that demographic band myself, and it is true - but without wanting to pin the blame on them, sitting things out strikes me as an ineffective way of changing that.

    Governments will continue to get elected, and if they can do so despite younger people not turning out, that will inevitably have an impact on what actions they take.

    Or already has.
    Rishi not suggesting we should start adding points to their driving licences for not voting, or removing their access to bank accounts?
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    stodge said:


    Not according to Laura Kuenssberg.

    She, and she says Labour do not believe the polls.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722eezx9n4o

    Neither do I. Shy Tories, Rishi's Labour tax bomb, don't knows, punish Nigel surge and don't let Labour get a landslide surgecould all happen.

    Back to Stodge's Tenth Law of Politics - you may hope and believe something can't happen but that usually means it will.

    It was the same in 1997 - Labour didn't believe what was happening because nothing like it had happened before. The Conservatives were the same. Both were saying even on the cusp of polling day it was close etc, etc.

    Others knew but didn't believe what their eyes, ears and data were telling them.

    It's a similar position now - nobody believes Labour will get 500 seats and the Conservatives 100 seats and yet the data and anecdotal information they must be seeing at Labour and Conservative HQ will be telling them something they still refuse to accept.
    Starting from the numbers is just not the right way to do things

    Mayor of Hiroshima: no single bomb in history has ever caused 1% of the number of casualties you claim. Your report can safely be ignored

    Manchester CID: that would be 25 times as many murders as the previous record for a GP. Safe to close this file.

    Etc etc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    In case anyone wants a nosey, Sky News at 19:48

    https://www.youtube.com/live/oJUvTVdTMyY?si=HPFr0xOPMJb65inZ

    It's that chap from YouTube who's always rambling on about his car!
  • LloydBanksLloydBanks Posts: 45
    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Alexa, show me what doubling down looks like:

    Writing in the Daily Telegraph, the Reform UK leader said he had never been an "apologist or supporter of [Russian President Vladimir] Putin" but that "if you poke the Russian bear with a stick, don’t be surprised if he responds".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722pn07w99o

    I'm not a believer in the axiom that you should 'ignore everything after the but'...but in this case I will make an exception.

    He could have avoided even this minor furore if he was not a true believer, but clearly he is - he genuinely thinks democratic organisational expansion is justification for Russian invasions.

    His protestations he is not an apologist are laughably insincere as he spews forth apologies over and over again.
    It might not bite. There are probably enough people who agree with him, or who think the Russian invasion is a bit shit but it's not our responsibility to get involved.
    No might about it, I'm very sure it won't bite.

    But I hope the corpse of the Tories after the election tries to resist him a bit rather than just bends over.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,148

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Been bombed to bits and not entirely recovered. My favourite bits are Old Pourtsmouth - the Point where this cartoon was drawn - and the view from the outside coffee tables at Priddy's Hard (the old ammunition depot oppposite). And Portchester Castle.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/788317
    Portchester Castle is the distillation of English history.
    Saxon shore fort built.by the Romans 1600 years ago.
    Rebuilt by Henry Ii iirc.
    Part of Henry V's fleet set sail from here for France.
    Surrounded by Georgian houses.
    Used for Napoleonic prisoners of war who built a theatre in the keep.
    Victorian church in the bailey.
    Cricket ground in the bailey still in use.
    Stand atop the keep and see the whole of Portsmouth harbour.

    One of my favourite places in the world.
    When I walked past it for the first time in late 2002, there were a pile of cannon dumped near the wall. I've never found them again - presumably they were moved.

    It's easy to stand on the keep's roof and look out, and wonder what the Romans would have seen from the lower walls, or the medieval knights from the top of the keep.

    It's a magnificent place.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    If you think that Labour is going to do worse in seats than it did when Corbyn humiliatingly lost the 2017 election to a dead duck like Theresa May I’m happy to offer real money. The party led by your boy failed to get as many votes as another party. That’s how politics fucking works. You still fail to grasp that even a good second place is the first loser don’t you?
    I have already got £100 at 8/1 with Sky Bet that SKS gets less than the 12.9m Jezza got in 2017 thanks.

    Current price with them is now 10/11 did you miss the 8/1?
    You spectacularly miss the point I’m making. The 12m Corbyn got in 2017 was less than the 13.6m May’s Tories got. He lost. He fucked up. He’s a failure who condemned us to a whole series of Tory victories. This is about beating the Conservatives, not history. How much have you got on the result that matters, you strange Tory helper?
    Er this is a betting site. BJO should be betting on results that offer value, not on what he wants to happen
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679

    Asking for a friend. What's the magic number when majority becomes "super-majority"?

    Reminds me of Alan Partridge talking to a super rich guy. Not that he was super rich, just a rich guy who happened to be super.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Has Johnny Mercer been vindicated? I noticed people were calling him all sorts yesterday.

    No. His opponent had been slightly overly bigged up by an incompetent journalist, but is basically in the clear. Mercer is a twat and very bad at social media polemics.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,629
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    How far down the tree does that go? Is Mike Tindall going to get criticised for popping in and voting Lib Dem? (he strikes me as a Lib Dem)
    Prince Harry outed himself as a Corbynite in his book
    And, separately, a bit of a fool and an oversharer.
    I enjoyed the read.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,194
    Keith Vaz is pulling out all the stops to win in Leicester:

    https://x.com/ub1ub2/status/1804552866490659093
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,705

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    If you think that Labour is going to do worse in seats than it did when Corbyn humiliatingly lost the 2017 election to a dead duck like Theresa May I’m happy to offer real money. The party led by your boy failed to get as many votes as another party. That’s how politics fucking works. You still fail to grasp that even a good second place is the first loser don’t you?
    I have already got £100 at 8/1 with Sky Bet that SKS gets less than the 12.9m Jezza got in 2017 thanks.

    Current price with them is now 10/11 did you miss the 8/1?
    You spectacularly miss the point I’m making. The 12m Corbyn got in 2017 was less than the 13.6m May’s Tories got. He lost. He fucked up. He’s a failure who condemned us to a whole series of Tory victories. This is about beating the Conservatives, not history. How much have you got on the result that matters, you strange Tory helper?
    Er this is a betting site. BJO should be betting on results that offer value, not on what he wants to happen
    Also, if be bet on Starmer having an accident, the police might be round to visit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,294
    AlsoLei said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Proposed electoral reform to modernise the nation:

    Adopt the Eurovision voting system with the Royal Family playing the role of the judges. The points awarded by the Royals would count for 50% of the total.

    Declarations would be made by videolink to a live venue where candidates would sit together in the green room.
    Can we make it like 1990s Eurovision, where the votes for some of the more distant members of the RF sound like they're being sent from Malta using paper cups connected with waxed string?

    Allo Prince Richard, Allo Prince Richard? Quels sont les votes du jury du Prince Richard?
    There hasn’t been Prince Richard since Richard III, has there?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,459

    I was planning on campaigning for a few Tory MPs at the election even if I wasn't voting Tory sadly they either stood down and I ended up with the emergency surgery that has left me hors de combat.

    I love campaigning and knocking up the voters on election day.

    Sorry you are indisposed at this exciting electoral moment.

    But nevertheless MUST deplore your characterization of your no-doubt devoted care staff as "hors de combat".

    Get well soon - or at least better sooner - and am sure you'll shortly be back to knocking up carefully-targeted voters in your accustomed style.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,705

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
    Oh come on.

    Irrespective, he got into bed with a total crook.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,679

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
    Stand by your man.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    Keith Vaz is pulling out all the stops to win in Leicester:

    https://x.com/ub1ub2/status/1804552866490659093

    Any chance the recall petition he avoided by resigning from Parliament in 2019 could be started up?

    A cursory glance at his political history reveals him to be too corrupt and scummy even for the British Parliament.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210

    Has Johnny Mercer been vindicated? I noticed people were calling him all sorts yesterday.

    No. His opponent had been slightly overly bigged up by an incompetent journalist, but is basically in the clear. Mercer is a twat and very bad at social media polemics.
    And I don't think he has explained how he apparently knows the other guy hasn't been in combat
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
    As were Blair and Campbell over Kelly's suicide. Huzzah.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,532

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
    Whitewash?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,813

    AlsoLei said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Proposed electoral reform to modernise the nation:

    Adopt the Eurovision voting system with the Royal Family playing the role of the judges. The points awarded by the Royals would count for 50% of the total.

    Declarations would be made by videolink to a live venue where candidates would sit together in the green room.
    Can we make it like 1990s Eurovision, where the votes for some of the more distant members of the RF sound like they're being sent from Malta using paper cups connected with waxed string?

    Allo Prince Richard, Allo Prince Richard? Quels sont les votes du jury du Prince Richard?
    There hasn’t been Prince Richard since Richard III, has there?
    HRH Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester, cousin of the late Queen
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
    Oh come on.

    Irrespective, he got into bed with a total crook.
    Last refuge of a scoundrel is to act as though failure to break the law means nothing could have been done that was wrong.

    Most normal people know that not being a criminal is a baseline expectation, expecially for those in public life.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,294

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Isn’t that usually described as Flemish?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Been bombed to bits and not entirely recovered. My favourite bits are Old Pourtsmouth - the Point where this cartoon was drawn - and the view from the outside coffee tables at Priddy's Hard (the old ammunition depot oppposite). And Portchester Castle.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/788317
    Portchester Castle is the distillation of English history.
    Saxon shore fort built.by the Romans 1600 years ago.
    Rebuilt by Henry Ii iirc.
    Part of Henry V's fleet set sail from here for France.
    Surrounded by Georgian houses.
    Used for Napoleonic prisoners of war who built a theatre in the keep.
    Victorian church in the bailey.
    Cricket ground in the bailey still in use.
    Stand atop the keep and see the whole of Portsmouth harbour.

    One of my favourite places in the world.
    Also, the site of the now sadly defunct "Mighty Fine" pub. Once voted Britain's roughest pub where the stripper would gob in your mouth for a fiver on "Forces Only" nights. At one point the bouncer was a dwarf who would regularly get hung on a coat hook from which eyrie he would lash out in impotent rage at anybody within range with a pool cue. The landlord was trans years before JK Rowling started going on about them.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Also it's bonkers that Walloon means French speaking. Least French looking word I can imagine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602

    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Technically, there is no law stating that the Queen or members of the royal family cannot vote.

    However, Parliament guidelines state it is considered unconstitutional for the Monarch or their family to vote in an election.

    The official royal guidelines say the Head of State "has to remain strictly neutral with respect to political matters" and is unable to vote or stand for election.
    How far down the tree does that go? Is Mike Tindall going to get criticised for popping in and voting Lib Dem? (he strikes me as a Lib Dem)
    Prince Harry outed himself as a Corbynite in his book
    And, separately, a bit of a fool and an oversharer.
    I enjoyed the read.
    I would hope so, looking foolish and ovresharing should make something a good read.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,640

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    Greensill.
    He was cleared of any wrongdoing.

    https://news.sky.com/story/david-cameron-cleared-of-breaking-lobbying-rules-after-allegedly-texting-sunak-over-greensill-12257682
    "Wrongdoing" Being a shiny man in a shiny suit and lobbying for a complete shit is certainly below what is expected for an ex-PM.

    He sent:

    > Nine WhatsApps to the Chancellor Rishi Sunak

    > Two WhatsApp messages to Richard Sharp, adviser to Rishi Sunak

    > 12 texts to Sir Tom Scholar, the permanent secretary at the Treasury.

    A dozen texts/emails/phone calls and other messages were sent to: the Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove; the health secretary, Matt Hancock; the vaccines minister, Nadhim Zahawi; the economic secretary, John Glen; and the financial secretary, Jesse Norman.

    Four emails and one text went to Sir Jon Cunliffe, deputy governor of the Bank of England.

    Seven messages and calls went to Sheridan Westlake, a senior adviser to Boris Johnson.

    Cameron often signed off the messages “Dc” or with a simple “👍”

    In a text message to Scholar on 6 March 2020, when the financial markets were in freefall at the start of the pandemic:

    “I am riding to the rescue with supply chain finance with my new friend Lex Greensill”


    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/11/greensill-the-scale-of-david-camerons-lobbying-texts-revealed
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,019
    Election news.

    https://walthamforestecho.co.uk/2024/06/21/green-party-suspends-chingford-and-woodford-green-candidate/

    "Green Party suspends Chingford and Woodford Green candidate

    Chris Brody was suspended after the party found a personal blog post where he confessed to a sexual assault while on a secure mental health ward, reports Marco Marcelline"
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,629
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    If you think that Labour is going to do worse in seats than it did when Corbyn humiliatingly lost the 2017 election to a dead duck like Theresa May I’m happy to offer real money. The party led by your boy failed to get as many votes as another party. That’s how politics fucking works. You still fail to grasp that even a good second place is the first loser don’t you?
    I have already got £100 at 8/1 with Sky Bet that SKS gets less than the 12.9m Jezza got in 2017 thanks.

    Current price with them is now 10/11 did you miss the 8/1?
    You spectacularly miss the point I’m making. The 12m Corbyn got in 2017 was less than the 13.6m May’s Tories got. He lost. He fucked up. He’s a failure who condemned us to a whole series of Tory victories. This is about beating the Conservatives, not history. How much have you got on the result that matters, you strange Tory helper?
    12.9m is the bet not 12m.

    I think the art of political betting is spotting a ridiculous price for something to happen.

    Remember GE 2017 was a very profitable night after all and sundry had written Corbyns Labour off in many seats they won.

    Calling me a Tory helper is a bit pathetic given SKS is welcoming vile Tories on a daily basis.

    A vote for SKS is a vote for continuation Tory. Wake up.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,640

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Also it's bonkers that Walloon means French speaking. Least French looking word I can imagine.
    Same etymological origin as Wales, Wallachia, Gaul.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Also it's bonkers that Walloon means French speaking. Least French looking word I can imagine.
    The community languages of Wallonie are French AND German.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,325

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    @BigJohnOwls fans please explain.
    Explain that Lab are going to get less votes than 2017.

    Massive win on my only decent size bet this GE
    Fewer votes
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Been bombed to bits and not entirely recovered. My favourite bits are Old Pourtsmouth - the Point where this cartoon was drawn - and the view from the outside coffee tables at Priddy's Hard (the old ammunition depot oppposite). And Portchester Castle.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/788317
    Portchester Castle is the distillation of English history.
    Saxon shore fort built.by the Romans 1600 years ago.
    Rebuilt by Henry Ii iirc.
    Part of Henry V's fleet set sail from here for France.
    Surrounded by Georgian houses.
    Used for Napoleonic prisoners of war who built a theatre in the keep.
    Victorian church in the bailey.
    Cricket ground in the bailey still in use.
    Stand atop the keep and see the whole of Portsmouth harbour.

    One of my favourite places in the world.
    Extremely noomy, Portchester castle

    Also I once had sex in a car near there

    In unrelated news that has nothing to do with my fading virility the fuckers at ******* ferries have just stolen my favourite old knife: a spyderco tenacious

    Ferries are shit. And expensive. Fuck em
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,532

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Also it's bonkers that Walloon means French speaking. Least French looking word I can imagine.
    Walloon is actually a seperate language, but little-spoken these days.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walloon_language
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,783

    stodge said:


    Not according to Laura Kuenssberg.

    She, and she says Labour do not believe the polls.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722eezx9n4o

    Neither do I. Shy Tories, Rishi's Labour tax bomb, don't knows, punish Nigel surge and don't let Labour get a landslide surgecould all happen.

    Back to Stodge's Tenth Law of Politics - you may hope and believe something can't happen but that usually means it will.

    It was the same in 1997 - Labour didn't believe what was happening because nothing like it had happened before. The Conservatives were the same. Both were saying even on the cusp of polling day it was close etc, etc.

    Others knew but didn't believe what their eyes, ears and data were telling them.

    It's a similar position now - nobody believes Labour will get 500 seats and the Conservatives 100 seats and yet the data and anecdotal information they must be seeing at Labour and Conservative HQ will be telling them something they still refuse to accept.
    Starting from the numbers is just not the right way to do things

    Mayor of Hiroshima: no single bomb in history has ever caused 1% of the number of casualties you claim. Your report can safely be ignored

    Manchester CID: that would be 25 times as many murders as the previous record for a GP. Safe to close this file.

    Etc etc
    I really don't understand your answer.

    All sorts of information is being fed back to the various Party headquarters from both the so-called air war and the so-called ground war. The question is whether those looking at the information understand what they are seeing and accept it and will act on it.

    Will, for example, Labour activists be diverted into seats which they had never considered as prospects? The Conservatives seem to be falling back to an inner ring of seats with 20,000 majorities or more and are defending those frantically? Will the LDs move their limited resources beyond the obvious targets into areas which have become promising following local success?

    The last 10-11 days of any election are critical - decisions taken this weekend on the data available will have huge impact and significance.

    Tonight's polls continue to slow Conservative support sliding to 20% or below - that's uncharted water for the Party in terms of any election.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Savanta
    🚨NEW Westminster Voting Intention for Sunday @Telegraph

    📉Lowest ever Conservative vote share under Sunak, again

    🌹Lab 42 (+2)
    🌳Con 19 (-2)
    ➡️Reform 16 (+2)
    🔶LD 9 (-2)
    🌍Green 5 (+1)
    🎗️SNP 3 (=)
    ⬜️Other 6 (+1)

    2,103 UK adults
    19-21 June (chg from 14-16 June)

    Ha!

    Lab 504
    LD 53
    Con 43
    SNP 21
    PC 4
    Ref 3
    Green 2
    Others 20
    SKS fans please explain
    Explain what that non MRP Polls are exaggerating the Lab lead?

    If anyone wants to bet SKS will get over 500 seats I am happy to oppose that in a charity bet!

    I reckon the 10pm Exit poll is going to be as big a shock to SKS fans as the 2017 one.

    But we will see.
    If you think that Labour is going to do worse in seats than it did when Corbyn humiliatingly lost the 2017 election to a dead duck like Theresa May I’m happy to offer real money. The party led by your boy failed to get as many votes as another party. That’s how politics fucking works. You still fail to grasp that even a good second place is the first loser don’t you?
    I have already got £100 at 8/1 with Sky Bet that SKS gets less than the 12.9m Jezza got in 2017 thanks.

    Current price with them is now 10/11 did you miss the 8/1?
    You spectacularly miss the point I’m making. The 12m Corbyn got in 2017 was less than the 13.6m May’s Tories got. He lost. He fucked up. He’s a failure who condemned us to a whole series of Tory victories. This is about beating the Conservatives, not history. How much have you got on the result that matters, you strange Tory helper?
    Er this is a betting site. BJO should be betting on results that offer value, not on what he wants to happen
    TBF, 2017 was the highest Labour votes ever. I am surprised he got 8/1 on it since Starmer would need to get the highest Labour vote count in history.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,193

    NEW THREAD

  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Also it's bonkers that Walloon means French speaking. Least French looking word I can imagine.
    That's because it's Wallon in French and Walloon is a different langue d'oïl to French (although hardly anyone speaks it any more)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,019

    Asking for a friend. What's the magic number when majority becomes "super-majority"?

    Probably 200 seat majority or more. So Blair just missed out in 1997.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,602
    Andy_JS said:

    Election news.

    https://walthamforestecho.co.uk/2024/06/21/green-party-suspends-chingford-and-woodford-green-candidate/

    "Green Party suspends Chingford and Woodford Green candidate

    Chris Brody was suspended after the party found a personal blog post where he confessed to a sexual assault while on a secure mental health ward, reports Marco Marcelline"

    I see the wikipedia page now lists him as an Independent, which is a bit dodgy, it should show him as the Green but include a note about support being withdrawn, as is the case with Labour in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chingford_and_Woodford_Green_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberdeenshire_North_and_Moray_East_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    @BigJohnOwls fans please explain.
    Explain that Lab are going to get less votes than 2017.

    Massive win on my only decent size bet this GE
    Fewer votes
    Sigh.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,407

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    I used to look after the ill gotten Congolese gains of the larger number of the wealthiest Belgian families and there was a very clear differentiation between them in person.

    The frenchies were very sophisticated, artful, maybe just “sly”. Very money driven and materialist, the Flemish ones were delightfully simple.

    The frenchies would turn up looking like royalty and behave in a cod noble way and their richer Flemish equivalents would turn up dressed straight from the farm with dirty fingernails and shabby clothing.

    This doesn’t add anything to anything but just an observation.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,261
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    If they are not sitting members of the House of Lords yes they do. Previously most of them were disenfranchised because their various titles gave them a seat in he upper house but that’s not been the case since 1999. Technically even the King can vote but the monarch does not do so in keeping with the no politics tradition.
    Cheers sir
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,210

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Isn’t that usually described as Flemish?
    The official language is Dutch. Belgian Dutch differs very little from Netherlands Dutch. There are a variety of dialects, but not all Dutch-speaking Belgians are Flemings: some are Brabantians or Limburgers
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,261

    ydoethur said:

    carnforth said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The LDs won't be as low as 9% on election night.

    They might be, in 2019 the LDs got a number of centrist voters who couldn't stand Boris or Corbyn.

    Now Sunak has replaced Boris and more centrist Starmer replaced Corbyn a number will go Labour who voted LD at the last general election and a few LDs in 2019 may even go Tory (albeit far fewer than the number of 2019 Tories who were Boris fans who have gone Reform). We know that TSE and NigelF voted LD in 2019 for instance but will vote for Sunak this time
    @TheScreamingEagles is voting Tory? That I did not expect. Assumed he would go Liberal, maybe even Labour!
    I am voting Tory to keep His Excellency The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton as Foreign Secretary otherwise I would have abstained.
    I don't know how to break it to you but your vote will *not* be keeping Dave at the Foreign Office.

    Also, there is no Father Christmas. (Might as well get it all over in one go.)
    I know but not voting to keep Dave in government is fucking anathema to me.

    As my friends and colleagues observed recently, I am more loyal to Dave than I was to my wife which I know isn't a great reflection on me but sums up my adoration for Dave.
    I can guarantee Cameron himself is not voting for Rishi.
    He will be (though he probably voted LD in 2019 rather than for Boris)
    He doesn't have a vote...
    In a general?
    Nope. Peers, aliens,* lunatics** and criminals do not have a vote.

    *Before causing somebody to have a meltdown, that's a technical term for those who are not British or Irish nationals or Commonwealth citizens with leave to remain.

    **This begs certain questions around Nadine Dorries and Richard Burgon.
    Serious question, do the Royal Family have the vote?
    Proposed electoral reform to modernise the nation:

    Adopt the Eurovision voting system with the Royal Family playing the role of the judges. The points awarded by the Royals would count for 50% of the total.

    Declarations would be made by videolink to a live venue where candidates would sit together in the green room.
    Do they all have to wear spangly leotards?
  • MustaphaMondeoMustaphaMondeo Posts: 171
    kle4 said:

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    Greens on 9 wow
    The Green support I find most difficult to explain. They are not a fringe political force, but they are not major either. I find it hard to believe all 'true' leftwing people are voting Green as Labour would not be at 40% with centre left and centre (and some centre right) alone. In the South the LDs poll better, and in most of the country the Greens are barely present even with some good local gains in the last few years.

    So how are they getting to 9%?
    I’ve been knocking. Heartened by the number of small c conservatives being positive. I like wildlife and clean rivers. They nod and talk about renationalise the rail and water. Insulate. I nod.

    I would feel bad if I didn’t think I’m sucking up more Cons and Lib Dem, than Labour left.

    I’m getting 1/2 Labour, more Green than Con, but then I smile, listen, and sympathise. I think they may be quite polite.

    Not a bit surprised by 9%.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,939
    EPG said:

    🚨 New polling with @ObserverUK

    The Labour lead is now 20 points
    •Labour 40% (n/c)
    •Conservatives 20% (-3)
    •Reform 16% (+2)
    •Lib Dems 12% (n/c)
    •Greens 9% (+2)
    •SNP 3% (+1)

    Fieldwork: 19 - 21 June. Changes from 12 - 14 June.

    Getting battered

    It's hotting up in that one Reform/Green marginal.
    Funny you should say that. Today I overheard someone saying that they were going to vote Reform to keep the Green out.

    Goodness knows which seat.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,020
    stodge said:


    Not according to Laura Kuenssberg.

    She, and she says Labour do not believe the polls.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c722eezx9n4o

    Neither do I. Shy Tories, Rishi's Labour tax bomb, don't knows, punish Nigel surge and don't let Labour get a landslide surgecould all happen.

    Back to Stodge's Tenth Law of Politics - you may hope and believe something can't happen but that usually means it will.

    It was the same in 1997 - Labour didn't believe what was happening because nothing like it had happened before. The Conservatives were the same. Both were saying even on the cusp of polling day it was close etc, etc.

    Others knew but didn't believe what their eyes, ears and data were telling them.

    It's a similar position now - nobody believes Labour will get 500 seats and the Conservatives 100 seats and yet the data and anecdotal information they must be seeing at Labour and Conservative HQ will be telling them something they still refuse to accept.
    And OK... Of the 400 or so Conservative candidates who were thinking in 2021/2, "next stop Westminster", most (250? 300?) must know, cognitively, that it ain't happening. They, and their opposition counterparts, and their campaign teams, have a pretty clear sense of where the front line is.

    But the only way to endure the next fortnight is to shut those thoughts out, because to give up is to definitely lose.

    We're in the "point of no return" phase of the election. A bit like the ten days after the start of a COVID lockdown. The numbers are happening, we can be pretty sure what will happen next. But it won't show up in the figures yet.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 781
    Dura_Ace said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    I’ve just noticed my ferry to St Malo - pedestrian - costs £400 - for ONE person

    Of course I’m not paying but who the heck would pay that when a flight is less than half and takes an hour rather than 10 hours? Keeps out the riff raff I guess

    This is also my first ever trip to Portsmouth. To my intense surprise I quite like it. Gritty and port-y but with a hint of the spectacular. The sun glints on grey metal

    Been bombed to bits and not entirely recovered. My favourite bits are Old Pourtsmouth - the Point where this cartoon was drawn - and the view from the outside coffee tables at Priddy's Hard (the old ammunition depot oppposite). And Portchester Castle.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/788317
    Portchester Castle is the distillation of English history.
    Saxon shore fort built.by the Romans 1600 years ago.
    Rebuilt by Henry Ii iirc.
    Part of Henry V's fleet set sail from here for France.
    Surrounded by Georgian houses.
    Used for Napoleonic prisoners of war who built a theatre in the keep.
    Victorian church in the bailey.
    Cricket ground in the bailey still in use.
    Stand atop the keep and see the whole of Portsmouth harbour.

    One of my favourite places in the world.
    Also, the site of the now sadly defunct "Mighty Fine" pub. Once voted Britain's roughest pub where the stripper would gob in your mouth for a fiver on "Forces Only" nights. At one point the bouncer was a dwarf who would regularly get hung on a coat hook from which eyrie he would lash out in impotent rage at anybody within range with a pool cue. The landlord was trans years before JK Rowling started going on about them.
    I believe I know people who know that stripper.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,671

    Completely off topic, but the dominance of Flemish speakers in Belgium's national teams has always confused me. There's no cultural or demographic reason for it

    59% of Belgians are Dutch speakers.
    Isn’t that usually described as Flemish?
    flemish is just a dialect of Dutch
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,456

    a

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Good evening

    To all those conservatives thinking of voting Labour or any other party but absolutely do not want Farage to have a future in the conservative party, then the only way to do that is to vote conservative notwithstanding so many doubts to ensure a conservative party has enough seats to provide a non Farage opposition

    I have just posted our 2 votes for our conservative

    Voting conservative will not stop Starmer becoming PM with a substantial majority

    Good that your wife let you post them. Did she come with you to make sure you didn't put them in the dog poo bin by mistake?
    Unnecessary and insulting but then I expected it
    At least your household is doing its little bit to balance off all those in Tower Hamlets where Tories so often allege that it’s the man of the house who gets to fill in the postal votes.
    In the case of Tower Hamlets, the criminal theft of votes was proven in court.
    Friend of mine used to live in Tower Hamlets, and was registered for a postal vote. One year it didn’t arrive, so she went to the Office to complain, and was told to go straight to the police.
    She did, and a large bundle of voting forms was subsequently found in the house of the Council official who was supposed to distribute them.
    That’s what she told me, anyway.

    IanB2 said:

    Farooq said:

    Good evening

    To all those conservatives thinking of voting Labour or any other party but absolutely do not want Farage to have a future in the conservative party, then the only way to do that is to vote conservative notwithstanding so many doubts to ensure a conservative party has enough seats to provide a non Farage opposition

    I have just posted our 2 votes for our conservative

    Voting conservative will not stop Starmer becoming PM with a substantial majority

    Good that your wife let you post them. Did she come with you to make sure you didn't put them in the dog poo bin by mistake?
    Unnecessary and insulting but then I expected it
    At least your household is doing its little bit to balance off all those in Tower Hamlets where Tories so often allege that it’s the man of the house who gets to fill in the postal votes.
    In the case of Tower Hamlets, the criminal theft of votes was proven in court.
    Friend of mine used to live in Tower Hamlets, and was registered for a postal vote. One year it didn’t arrive, so she went to the Office to complain, and was told to go straight to the police.
    She did, and a large bundle of voting forms was subsequently found in the house of the Council official who was supposed to distribute them.
    That’s what she told me, anyway.
    My flatmate had his vote stolen - polling card sent to a different flat. That apparently had dozens of people living there. When he tried to report it to the police a curious saga ensued.

    He was first told that it wasn’t a crime. Yes, really. He was told nothing would be done.

    He insisted on making a statement. When asked to sign it, he read it. It bore no relation to what he had said, included an addition of a fictitious kicking on the door of the flat his vote had been registered to (he never went there) and was full of crude and racist language. He was a Lib Dem of the kind who would stop a conversation to correct someone for not using First Australians to refer to the original inhabitants - not exactly the chap to call people P**i….

    When asked, they claimed that the statement was accurate, it would take too much time to change it and they would change it later. He said he would wait. In the end they managed to write down his recorded words accurately.

    All in all it took him the better part of a day to record a crime.

    Oh, and no further action was taken.
    That is a shocking anecdote. And yet I’m not full of doubt. Any organisation with that little trust must go.

    It is time to end the Met.
    Why is it shocking? Because it happened to a nice middle class chap?

    During the Rotherham comedy, a step-dad (IIRC) made repeated complaints to the police. In response, a policeman warned him that if the complaints continued, they would write him up as a racist. And then under the legislation for dealing with “unacceptable” neighbours, have the family thrown out of their council house.

    I can tell you another fun one about a friend, a watch, a policeman, £1.21 and another policeman.
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