Mark Harper repeats Rishi Sunak's lie about the £2,000 Labour tax
Fiona Bruce calls him out on it
Mark Harper doubles down
Fiona Bruce reads out the letter
Mark Harper triples down on it
Shabana Mahmood jumps in and calls him out
Look at Mark Harpers face - he knows he's telling lies and yet he carries on, Shameful
No-one gives a fuck if the £2,000 tax claim is "shameful".
We all know Labour will raise your taxes after the election, and we haven't a clue how much.
This is if anything an understatement.
“No-one gives a fuck if the £2,000 tax claim is "shameful".”
Everyone wanting the Conservatives to do well should give a fuck, that this most hapless of campaigns has so quickly descended into “same old Tories, always lying” as the main narrative.
And leading to a Labour majority of 326, according to Electoral Calculus
Labour very very easily lose their majority next time.
If they win a majority over 150 it’s electorally very unlikely, however much you might wish otherwise.
Remember, the current majority was c. 80.
Anything over 100 usually takes two bites and that’s even if your reputation hasn’t been trashed and you haven’t got a divided Right.
You told me to brace but I think it’s you that might need to do that. You’re going to be out of power for at least 9 years, possibly more.
You haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
But it's kind of cute, in a way.
Why so angry? It's unnecessary.
CR has a right to be angry as hell. Just NOT at you
Who says I'm angry?
I might just be having fun.
Frankly you come over as a complete dick
And what party does he support? I'd be mean to say it goes with the territory, but it doesn't. Hyfud, Boris's Johnson's biggest cheerleader and number one Tory fan is always impeccably polite.
Namecheck for our very own @RochdalePioneers on Sophy Ridge tonight - because they are covering the “mess” in the Aberdeenshire seat
What’s the betting for the seat? I’ve just had a quick glance and it looks a certain SNP gain.
As Duguid the outgoing MP would be a constituent, I wonder if rival candidate should visit with a get well soon card and gift? If news of that got in the local press, it would lift their profile and come across as decent and human and neighbourly?
We're all wishing him well. He's a thoroughly decent human being. Not a voter though, boundary changes means he lives in Gordon and Buchan
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
Setting aside politics for today, this 80th anniversary of D-Day has for me been a sombre day of reflection.
My wife works in a care home and at the 75th anniversary of VE Day there were WWII veterans there retelling their stories about the war. Today there is not, they've all passed away and the only people there today who remember the war now were children at the time.
My grandad was 15 when the war ended so was in school during the war and would tell us very few stories about it, more about his national service which followed after the war in Malaysia. He passed away earlier this year, age 94.
Its strange to think that when I was a child in the 80s and 90s we still had some WWI veterans attending memorials. Today the WWII veterans and even the people who remember WWII as children at the time are passing away.
I find it quite sombre, especially with this being the first memorial my grandad isn't around for, but it makes it all the more important that we keep the memories and understanding alive. At times of memorials we tend to say "lest we forget" - but it is starting to be forgotten and fading into history which is a concern.
Thank you to all those who made the ultimate sacrifice 80 years ago so we can be free. We must never forget them, nor what they fought for and why.
One of my investors was a marine who was on the beaches in the invasion of Okinawa. He's 98 years old. And - lucky bastard - he still leads a very full and active life. (He still goes into the office each day.)
There aren't many like him left, and the number will be dropping every year.
... that's not the tone of a man who is confident about what he's saying.
And somehow, he's got to keep it together for another four weeks. It's not obvious to me that he can.
Has anyone seen Casino and Sunak in the same room? Kids in private school, going to leave the country if Labour win, probably very short in stature.
Has any losing campaign ever descended into shouting "You stupid bloody loonies" at the electorate? Not at the sneery whispers on social media level, but full-on official loud rage? Might be a suitably awful way for things to end.
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
And leading to a Labour majority of 326, according to Electoral Calculus
Labour very very easily lose their majority next time.
If they win a majority over 150 it’s electorally very unlikely, however much you might wish otherwise.
Remember, the current majority was c. 80.
Anything over 100 usually takes two bites and that’s even if your reputation hasn’t been trashed and you haven’t got a divided Right.
You told me to brace but I think it’s you that might need to do that. You’re going to be out of power for at least 9 years, possibly more.
You haven't got a fucking clue what you're talking about.
But it's kind of cute, in a way.
Why so angry? It's unnecessary.
CR has a right to be angry as hell. Just NOT at you
Who says I'm angry?
I might just be having fun.
Frankly you come over as a complete dick
And what party does he support? I'd be mean to say it goes with the territory, but it doesn't. Hyfud, Boris's Johnson's biggest cheerleader and number one Tory fan is always impeccably polite.
Indeed. @Big_G_NorthWales is another who I have always found to be really lovely.
Sensational win for the USA cricket team. Disaster for Ladbrokes.
Reviewing the line-up it largely looks like Pakistan diaspora v. Pakistan to me.
Once upon a time I used to play for a pub cricket team that went each year to play a game in some foreign field - Cuba, Italy, Vietnam, any non-cricketing country that would have us. It was huge fun, but rather disappointingly the opposition invariably consisted of the India/Pakistan diaspora.
And they invariably won.
A friend of mine did a post doc in Canada and played cricket while there. The team was nine from the Caribbean, one Aussie and my mate (from Bury). Played on coconut mats on concrete, with an outfield so long anything hit along the ground went about a yard. Great fun.
Another friend played when in Glasgow. Many were of Pakistani background, sadly for my friend who views cricket in much the same way I do - a thirst generator pre pub…
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
Sometime post-divorce, my pubic hair grew back.'
When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I bought and used a powerful laser. Now, he can no longer see my pubic hair and I'm much happier.
It's worth getting to the end of the article. Bush is back.
OGH rightly called out the OESI in 2010, and this tedious and juvenile behaviour needs to be called out now.
Mate, Just ignore it. He’s the sort of tedious prick who will do it all the more when he knows it gets under your skin.
I've had beer. Quite fun, really.
This is like the brawl outside the pub shortly before everyone goes home.
Next, I will order a stunningly disappointed doner kebab and then chunder all over Scott's mums petunia bed and take a slash in his letterbox.
Sleep tight.
The best thing about the kebab is the half you don’t eat will ne there for breakfast in the morning and all the fat will have solidified inside the pitta
I'm no fan of his, but Boris would actually have been better in this scenario. Just like he would have done better when Liz died, and Truss had to speak unto the nation. He's a photo op/sound bite guy. He's no good at the actual jobs he does, though.
Tory MP texts tonight in total disgust about PM leaving the D Day commemorations early. Said when they saw the picture of Cameron with the other world leaders at the ceremony, they initially thought the BBC had chosen the wrong picture.
We've been wondering if (/when) we'd see open warfare break out between Rishi and the CCHQ campaign team on one side, and the rest of the party on the other.
Farage has provided the kindling, Rishi's tax lies are surely good tinder - perhaps the abandonment of D-Day will be the spark that catches fire?
The best thing about the kebab is the half you don’t eat will ne there for breakfast in the morning and all the fat will have solidified inside the pitta
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
Sometime post-divorce, my pubic hair grew back.'
When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I bought and used a powerful laser. Now, he can no longer see my pubic hair and I'm much happier.
It's worth getting to the end of the article. Bush is back.
Bozza was, and is, a bad man. One example of his malignancy is that he catapulted Truss and Sunak to the front of the line of succession.
Cruel to the country, cruel to the party, but also cruel to Liz and Rishi. Because neither of them was up to the job.
Post 2019 GE which Conservative MP was? He'd driven out experienced rivals but the MPs never mind the members, weren't going to select Phillip Hammond or any other reasonable, experienced figure.
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
Sometime post-divorce, my pubic hair grew back.'
Have you put your pubic-hair.com forum post here by mistake? What valuable betting tips did you give them about the election in its place?
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
Sometime post-divorce, my pubic hair grew back.'
Have you put your pubic-hair.com forum post here by mistake? What valuable betting tips did you give them about the election in its place?
Richi flew back from Normandy to give a TV interview to once again repeat his lies.
He deserves everything that's coming...
You've been told multiple times to stop the "Richi" stuff.
Grow up.
What on Earth has got into you tonight?
Tonight?
Wouldn’t be surprised if he’s high on coke, crack, or meth. Kind of goes with the over-agitated and aggressive behaviour.
A few beers it seems.
Remember that old soak Ishmael used to get more and more aggressive and abusive as the day wore on and he worked his way through his latest case from Laithwaites.
Must have such a happy existence 😢
Didn’t CR (as opposed to CR7) offer a few people out the last time this happened 😂
Booze and online debating don’t mix. Only times I’ve ever been banned anywhere online was arguing when drunk.
Setting aside politics for today, this 80th anniversary of D-Day has for me been a sombre day of reflection.
My wife works in a care home and at the 75th anniversary of VE Day there were WWII veterans there retelling their stories about the war. Today there is not, they've all passed away and the only people there today who remember the war now were children at the time.
My grandad was 15 when the war ended so was in school during the war and would tell us very few stories about it, more about his national service which followed after the war in Malaysia. He passed away earlier this year, age 94.
Its strange to think that when I was a child in the 80s and 90s we still had some WWI veterans attending memorials. Today the WWII veterans and even the people who remember WWII as children at the time are passing away.
I find it quite sombre, especially with this being the first memorial my grandad isn't around for, but it makes it all the more important that we keep the memories and understanding alive. At times of memorials we tend to say "lest we forget" - but it is starting to be forgotten and fading into history which is a concern.
Thank you to all those who made the ultimate sacrifice 80 years ago so we can be free. We must never forget them, nor what they fought for and why.
One of my investors was a marine who was on the beaches in the invasion of Okinawa. He's 98 years old. And - lucky bastard - he still leads a very full and active life. (He still goes into the office each day.)
There aren't many like him left, and the number will be dropping every year.
Correction: not "was" a Marine, rather "is" a Marine.
Bozza was, and is, a bad man. One example of his malignancy is that he catapulted Truss and Sunak to the front of the line of succession.
Cruel to the country, cruel to the party, but also cruel to Liz and Rishi. Because neither of them was up to the job.
Post 2019 GE which Conservative MP was? He'd driven out experienced rivals but the MPs never mind the members, weren't going to select Phillip Hammond or any other reasonable, experienced figure.
Gosh. A real sign that Tory life comes at you fast. I'd completely erased Hammond from my memory.
You cannot leave the table until you have finished desert.
Remember you are British and representing all of us when over there.
Serious face now. You are re awakening us to this is what Ukraine are enduring on a daily basis, something that probably long slipped from our minds back here.
Mark Harper repeats Rishi Sunak's lie about the £2,000 Labour tax
Fiona Bruce calls him out on it
Mark Harper doubles down
Fiona Bruce reads out the letter
Mark Harper triples down on it
Shabana Mahmood jumps in and calls him out
Look at Mark Harpers face - he knows he's telling lies and yet he carries on, Shameful
That's the point that MoonRabbit's been making: Rishi told those lies and refused to back down - so now senior Tories are stuck having to repeat them too if they don't want the story to suddenly become one of "Tory splits".
And it's going to get worse and worse for them every time the lies are repeated.
They really should have climbed down yesterday while it was still just about possible to do so, and relied on the £2000 figure sticking in people's minds.
I agree with your post. 🥰 Except the bit about Tories ever had the chance to avoid this mess, once Rishi had firmly lead with it.
And it’s not just the 2K Lie - every Conservative has to hold the line on boat crossings are down, waiting lists are down, pensioners have never paid tax, Rwanda will be a fabulous deterrent, over and over till election day, as these answers are now the actual spine of the Conservative campaign. 🫣
And with the 2K Lie, the fact the Civil Service immediately called Rishi a liar is the take out from it this week, but far more damaging in long run is those 12yr old SPADs whose never had to work for a living in their lives who created this, only got it to up to 2K figure by only working families paying for it, totally ignoring the rest of the tax system and how it works to fund Tory pledges. The spectator piece leapt on this part of the madness straightaway, because the daftness of saying that was visible from space. It’s dragged in “how much do all these Tory pledge's cost in the fantasy world just a subset of tax payers pay them”.
Sure there is lies and spin at elections, and the best of campaigns work and are legendary, but it has to be more sophisticated and subtle than something that instantly falls apart, into this “properly taking voters as mugs with your never ending lies” narrative in just 24hrs!
If Cummings clever £350M “gross on a bus” is Grad A version how to do it, this was more like D minus.
Interesting that on debate night SKS was called out for letting that ride unchallenged for several minutes. Yet the challenge, when it did come, after multiple repetitions of the fabrication, was very forceful and more prominent for allowing the repetition to occur and now it is causing the Tories issues.
I can't say for sure whether Starmer got lucky or was doing some Jason Beer let the lie sit there a while thing, but it has worked out.
Peter Mandelson suggested the party should seriously consider binning Richi before the election
The events of today demonstrate why
Who was it who predicted that Isaac Levido would be jettisoned to try to shore up Rishi's position? I think they might have been on to something.
It won't improve matters if it happens, of course - Levido is only a symptom of the problem, not the cause.
The party need to accept that this is it, there's no escaping what's coming. The leadership should shut up and stop trying to stir things up, whilst the constituencies look to their own defences. Following any other path is going to make things worse, not better.
How is Sunak so crap? Is it the wealth that insulates him from reality?
It could be that he’s deliberately trying to get the Tories massacred.
Or it could be that he does not feel personally involved with D Day. How many members of his family were killed at Dunkirk? Or landed in Normandy Or were killed in the Blitz?
RE polls pointing to Ref advances: Seems to be less a case of Con2019ers going Labour now going Reform, but rather former apathetics and undecided coming back out to vote, but vote for Ref.
How is Sunak so crap? Is it the wealth that insulates him from reality?
It could be that he’s deliberately trying to get the Tories massacred.
Or it could be that he does not feel personally involved with D Day. How many members of his family were killed at Dunkirk? Or landed in Normandy Or were killed in the Blitz?
Peter Mandelson suggested the party should seriously consider binning Richi before the election
The events of today demonstrate why
Who was it who predicted that Isaac Levido would be jettisoned to try to shore up Rishi's position? I think they might have been on to something.
It won't improve matters if it happens, of course - Levido is only a symptom of the problem, not the cause.
The party need to accept that this is it, there's no escaping what's coming. The leadership should shut up and stop trying to stir things up, whilst the constituencies look to their own defences. Following any other path is going to make things worse, not better.
The issue is. Just like the mid 90's, they genuinely believe they are the voice of Middle England. They aren't. They can't change tack whilst that dissonance persists. Only a couple of cataclysmic defeats can relieve them of the burden of that illusion.
It seems to me the first major move in the polls during the campaign is to be an uptick in Reform support, at the expense of other major parties. Too early to say the mix, but not a material drop in the Labour lead given the Tory vote percentage is now perilously low in absolute terms.
The most notable point is this is precisely the opposite change that was predicted by many: that a Tory squeeze of Reform voters would close the gap meaningfully.
Will the momentum last? Well, the good news is I think any Farage party has a ceiling of support at around 20% or so in a general election. He's a divisive figure even amongst those on the right, and his party has no real depth in the way even the Lib Dems do at a local or national level.
But even support at those levels risks an extinction level event for the Tories: with the Lib Dems and Labour making unlikely wins in their respective areas of strength on the back of an inefficient Reform vote.
Sunak needs Farage to be sidelined in the campaign. If only he hadn't majored his campaign on Rwanda and National Service, two ludicrous schemes where Farage can always outdo him.
Starmer can keep his head down and win by default. But the lower vote %, if not lower vote count, may raise questions as to how strong a mandate he has vs. how strong a rejection of the Tories we've witnessed.
Davey should just keep doing what he's doing. He's the most likable of the four, but the least well known.
Mark Harper repeats Rishi Sunak's lie about the £2,000 Labour tax
Fiona Bruce calls him out on it
Mark Harper doubles down
Fiona Bruce reads out the letter
Mark Harper triples down on it
Shabana Mahmood jumps in and calls him out
Look at Mark Harpers face - he knows he's telling lies and yet he carries on, Shameful
That's the point that MoonRabbit's been making: Rishi told those lies and refused to back down - so now senior Tories are stuck having to repeat them too if they don't want the story to suddenly become one of "Tory splits".
And it's going to get worse and worse for them every time the lies are repeated.
They really should have climbed down yesterday while it was still just about possible to do so, and relied on the £2000 figure sticking in people's minds.
I agree with your post. 🥰 Except the bit about Tories ever had the chance to avoid this mess, once Rishi had firmly lead with it.
And it’s not just the 2K Lie - every Conservative has to hold the line on boat crossings are down, waiting lists are down, pensioners have never paid tax, Rwanda will be a fabulous deterrent, over and over till election day, as these answers are now the actual spine of the Conservative campaign. 🫣
And with the 2K Lie, the fact the Civil Service immediately called Rishi a liar is the take out from it this week, but far more damaging in long run is those 12yr old SPADs whose never had to work for a living in their lives who created this, only got it to up to 2K figure by only working families paying for it, totally ignoring the rest of the tax system and how it works to fund Tory pledges. The spectator piece leapt on this part of the madness straightaway, because the daftness of saying that was visible from space. It’s dragged in “how much do all these Tory pledge's cost in the fantasy world just a subset of tax payers pay them”.
Sure there is lies and spin at elections, and the best of campaigns work and are legendary, but it has to be more sophisticated and subtle than something that instantly falls apart, into this “properly taking voters as mugs with your never ending lies” narrative in just 24hrs!
If Cummings clever £350M “gross on a bus” is Grad A version how to do it, this was more like D minus.
Interesting that on debate night SKS was called out for letting that ride unchallenged for several minutes. Yet the challenge, when it did come, after multiple repetitions of the fabrication, was very forceful and more prominent for allowing the repetition to occur and now it is causing the Tories issues.
I can't say for sure whether Starmer got lucky or was doing some Jason Beer let the lie sit there a while thing, but it has worked out.
Who do we reckon won the debate now?
It's hard to tell, because the polls are affected by Farage's entry into the fray, but I still suspect that when you see, "shameful Tory lies about a Labour plan to increase taxes by £2000," all most voters will hear and remember is, "mimble wimble blah Labour plan to increase taxes flibble dibble doo."
I think that will reduce the number of Labour gains, but I'm not sure whether it will be a marginal difference or a larger one.
How is Sunak so crap? Is it the wealth that insulates him from reality?
It could be that he’s deliberately trying to get the Tories massacred.
Or it could be that he does not feel personally involved with D Day. How many members of his family were killed at Dunkirk? Or landed in Normandy Or were killed in the Blitz?
The same as mine? Being zero?
None of mine either. Indeed none of my family fought in the war, being either too old or too young, though my Grandfather was in a Wigan Home Guard unit. Tough men, all miners exempted from regular service.
Mark Harper repeats Rishi Sunak's lie about the £2,000 Labour tax
Fiona Bruce calls him out on it
Mark Harper doubles down
Fiona Bruce reads out the letter
Mark Harper triples down on it
Shabana Mahmood jumps in and calls him out
Look at Mark Harpers face - he knows he's telling lies and yet he carries on, Shameful
That's the point that MoonRabbit's been making: Rishi told those lies and refused to back down - so now senior Tories are stuck having to repeat them too if they don't want the story to suddenly become one of "Tory splits".
And it's going to get worse and worse for them every time the lies are repeated.
They really should have climbed down yesterday while it was still just about possible to do so, and relied on the £2000 figure sticking in people's minds.
I agree with your post. 🥰 Except the bit about Tories ever had the chance to avoid this mess, once Rishi had firmly lead with it.
And it’s not just the 2K Lie - every Conservative has to hold the line on boat crossings are down, waiting lists are down, pensioners have never paid tax, Rwanda will be a fabulous deterrent, over and over till election day, as these answers are now the actual spine of the Conservative campaign. 🫣
And with the 2K Lie, the fact the Civil Service immediately called Rishi a liar is the take out from it this week, but far more damaging in long run is those 12yr old SPADs whose never had to work for a living in their lives who created this, only got it to up to 2K figure by only working families paying for it, totally ignoring the rest of the tax system and how it works to fund Tory pledges. The spectator piece leapt on this part of the madness straightaway, because the daftness of saying that was visible from space. It’s dragged in “how much do all these Tory pledge's cost in the fantasy world just a subset of tax payers pay them”.
Sure there is lies and spin at elections, and the best of campaigns work and are legendary, but it has to be more sophisticated and subtle than something that instantly falls apart, into this “properly taking voters as mugs with your never ending lies” narrative in just 24hrs!
If Cummings clever £350M “gross on a bus” is Grad A version how to do it, this was more like D minus.
Interesting that on debate night SKS was called out for letting that ride unchallenged for several minutes. Yet the challenge, when it did come, after multiple repetitions of the fabrication, was very forceful and more prominent for allowing the repetition to occur and now it is causing the Tories issues.
I can't say for sure whether Starmer got lucky or was doing some Jason Beer let the lie sit there a while thing, but it has worked out.
Who do we reckon won the debate now?
Still about even.
But the post-debate is always going to be a separate thing, and it doesn't yet feel like Sunak has been able to build off it at all, whereas Starmer is blunting what might have cut through.
It seems to me the first major move in the polls during the campaign is to be an uptick in Reform support, at the expense of other major parties. Too early to say the mix, but not a material drop in the Labour lead given the Tory vote percentage is now perilously low in absolute terms.
The most notable point is this is precisely the opposite change that was predicted by many: that a Tory squeeze of Reform voters would close the gap meaningfully.
Will the momentum last? Well, the good news is I think any Farage party has a ceiling of support at around 20% or so in a general election. He's a divisive figure even amongst those on the right, and his party has no real depth in the way even the Lib Dems do at a local or national level.
But even support at those levels risks an extinction level event for the Tories: with the Lib Dems and Labour making unlikely wins in their respective areas of strength on the back of an inefficient Reform vote.
Sunak needs Farage to be sidelined in the campaign. If only he hadn't majored his campaign on Rwanda and National Service, two ludicrous schemes where Farage can always outdo him.
Starmer can keep his head down and win by default. But the lower vote %, if not lower vote count, may raise questions as to how strong a mandate he has vs. how strong a rejection of the Tories we've witnessed.
Davey should just keep doing what he's doing. He's the most likable of the four, but the least well known.
Great post. Excellent summary of the state of play imho.
And on that fine way to end I’ll wish you all a good night.
Bozza was, and is, a bad man. One example of his malignancy is that he catapulted Truss and Sunak to the front of the line of succession.
Cruel to the country, cruel to the party, but also cruel to Liz and Rishi. Because neither of them was up to the job.
Post 2019 GE which Conservative MP was? He'd driven out experienced rivals but the MPs never mind the members, weren't going to select Phillip Hammond or any other reasonable, experienced figure.
I think Gove might have worked. Radical but also prepared to do the work.
The thing about Sunak's £2k Labour tax allegation is this, and I don't think it's been mentioned enough. The 'lie' is that Sunak intended, during the debate, for everybody to think Labour's alleged tax hike would be £2k per year, rather than £500 a year - i.e. over four years. And the Tories, including Hunt, continue to frame it as £2k rather than £500. £10 a week isn't a great deal; £40 a week is.
Regardless of the fact that the figure is pure conjecture anyway (I expect Labour to raise taxes, obviously), it's this sleight of hand that makes it a 'lie'.
How is Sunak so crap? Is it the wealth that insulates him from reality?
It could be that he’s deliberately trying to get the Tories massacred.
Or it could be that he does not feel personally involved with D Day. How many members of his family were killed at Dunkirk? Or landed in Normandy Or were killed in the Blitz?
The same as mine? Being zero?
Mine too. I'm not aware of a relative who was even in the Forces at all, let alone in WW2, until my only brother earlier this century.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu8q9-M7GTU
Everyone wanting the Conservatives to do well should give a fuck, that this most hapless of campaigns has so quickly descended into “same old Tories, always lying” as the main narrative.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1798803538459627734
... that's not the tone of a man who is confident about what he's saying.
And somehow, he's got to keep it together for another four weeks. It's not obvious to me that he can.
I thought BoZo was an embarrassment.
This is somehow worse.
And every time he says it, Labour will call him a liar.
For the next 4 weeks.
@johnestevens
Labour source: “Rishi Sunak should tell the truth: did he skip the D Day commemorations this afternoon to try and convince people he’s not a liar?”
I'd be mean to say it goes with the territory, but it doesn't. Hyfud, Boris's Johnson's biggest cheerleader and number one Tory fan is always impeccably polite.
Leaving D Day early.
Beyond words.
Cruel to the country, cruel to the party, but also cruel to Liz and Rishi. Because neither of them was up to the job.
https://www.theguardian.com/wellness/article/2024/jun/05/pubic-hair-grooming
One does sympathise re the social (and other) pressures:
'When he expressed a preference for a mannequin-smooth pubic mound, I booked six permanent laser-hair removal sessions on the spot. Now, I wish I hadn’t. I wish I’d leaned into that friction, let myself feel uncomfortable and unattractive, and questioned what this request might mean for our future. Would he have other ideas about how I should look? (He did.) Would I be willing to compromise my body for those preferences, too? (I wasn’t.)
Sometime post-divorce, my pubic hair grew back.'
I don't think Webbe has any real support, mostly standing so she gets redundancy money.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=novnfBYMBIk
There aren't many like him left, and the number will be dropping every year.
History tells us that freedom is not free.
If you want to know the price of freedom, come here to Normandy, or other cemeteries where our fallen heroes rest.
The price of unchecked tyranny is the blood of the young and the brave.
and don't fuck off early in your private helicopter to whine about being called out as a liar
Great fun.
Another friend played when in Glasgow. Many were of Pakistani background, sadly for my friend who views cricket in much the same way I do - a thirst generator pre pub…
https://x.com/generalboles/status/1798811693604048971?s=61
(Perish that thought :-)
Farage has provided the kindling, Rishi's tax lies are surely good tinder - perhaps the abandonment of D-Day will be the spark that catches fire?
Sad...
Peter Mandelson suggested the party should seriously consider binning Richi before the election
The events of today demonstrate why
Con 20%
LibDem 10%
Reform 15%
Green 6%
Labour lead 24%
@ Techne
Fieldwork 5-6 June
Remember that old soak Ishmael used to get more and more aggressive and abusive as the day wore on and he worked his way through his latest case from Laithwaites.
Must have such a happy existence 😢
Didn’t CR (as opposed to CR7) offer a few people out the last time this happened 😂
Booze and online debating don’t mix. Only times I’ve ever been banned anywhere online was arguing when drunk.
Edit - thanks!
I can be a right tease
xx
At least that's the default for USMC veterans.
Oh, you’re talking about the air raid.
I'd completely erased Hammond from my memory.
Remember you are British and representing all of us when over there.
Serious face now. You are re awakening us to this is what Ukraine are enduring on a daily basis, something that probably long slipped from our minds back here.
Small Farage effect?
It's a more plausible explanation than most.
As someone said earlier, you can see now why Tory members went for Truss. They weren't as daft as we thought.
I can't say for sure whether Starmer got lucky or was doing some Jason Beer let the lie sit there a while thing, but it has worked out.
Who do we reckon won the debate now?
It won't improve matters if it happens, of course - Levido is only a symptom of the problem, not the cause.
The party need to accept that this is it, there's no escaping what's coming. The leadership should shut up and stop trying to stir things up, whilst the constituencies look to their own defences. Following any other path is going to make things worse, not better.
Where has that funny little chap gone?
Sorry, I should have posted the changes straightaway.
I never hear of any.
Seems to be less a case of Con2019ers going Labour now going Reform, but rather former apathetics and undecided coming back out to vote, but vote for Ref.
https://x.com/BNHWalker/status/1798763752453754952?t=zIAn6Pkb2Qcr2u_bRb3Rbg&s=19
If Ben is right, then turnout may be ticking up.
They aren't. They can't change tack whilst that dissonance persists.
Only a couple of cataclysmic defeats can relieve them of the burden of that illusion.
The most notable point is this is precisely the opposite change that was predicted by many: that a Tory squeeze of Reform voters would close the gap meaningfully.
Will the momentum last? Well, the good news is I think any Farage party has a ceiling of support at around 20% or so in a general election. He's a divisive figure even amongst those on the right, and his party has no real depth in the way even the Lib Dems do at a local or national level.
But even support at those levels risks an extinction level event for the Tories: with the Lib Dems and Labour making unlikely wins in their respective areas of strength on the back of an inefficient Reform vote.
Sunak needs Farage to be sidelined in the campaign. If only he hadn't majored his campaign on Rwanda and National Service, two ludicrous schemes where Farage can always outdo him.
Starmer can keep his head down and win by default. But the lower vote %, if not lower vote count, may raise questions as to how strong a mandate he has vs. how strong a rejection of the Tories we've witnessed.
Davey should just keep doing what he's doing. He's the most likable of the four, but the least well known.
I think that will reduce the number of Labour gains, but I'm not sure whether it will be a marginal difference or a larger one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cd11j83n5jjt
Destroying the Tories being the main goal anyway, and more prominent people probably wouldn't help any.
Maybe Anderson hopes for prominence though.
Lab 42.6%
Con 21.7%
Ref 14.7% (includes the first one which had them on just 9%)
LD 9.6%
Grn 6.3%
SNP 3.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election#National_poll_results
Baxter:
Lab 496
Con 69
LD 47
Grn 2
SNP 14
But the post-debate is always going to be a separate thing, and it doesn't yet feel like Sunak has been able to build off it at all, whereas Starmer is blunting what might have cut through.
And on that fine way to end I’ll wish you all a good night.
Regardless of the fact that the figure is pure conjecture anyway (I expect Labour to raise taxes, obviously), it's this sleight of hand that makes it a 'lie'.
https://imgur.com/gallery/OexI6bW
Odessa is now huddled in shelters - and bathrooms
I'm not aware of a relative who was even in the Forces at all, let alone in WW2, until my only brother earlier this century.