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A tale of two seats: Maidstone and Macclesfield – politicalbetting.com

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    SNP holding third party status.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,297
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    Do you have a link?
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/general-election-2024/mrp/
    Ta.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749

    Farage becomes leader of Reform.

    Is that so he can appear in debates
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    I'm guessing that implies vote shares of c.42% to 30%.
    14 point lead I think Luke said. 42 28
    10,000 sample during April and 5000 since GE called to account for changes
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423
    5 minutes is a long time in politics
  • ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    This will probably be the kindest poll for the Conservatives today.

    By "kindest", I mean they'll only be slaughtered. Not totally destroyed.
    It's not great is it? I mean it's not quite as bad as 1997 but it's pretty close.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,281

    Eabhal said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    Starting to get interesting!
    This smells right to me.
    SNP figure looks high.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    Farage becomes leader of Reform.

    Is he actually standing to be an MP then?
    If not, he's not showing much leadership, is he?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    Icarus said:




    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's looking as if the Conservatives have reached the same point as the Liberals in 1924. They just don't speak for anyone, anymore. I wonder what comes next.

    A new centre right party.
    If you are aged about 16-late 20s, are interested in a career in politics and want to be ahead of the curve then this - and the next 12-24 months - could be the time to very quietly join the Conservative party and get yourself involved. They have a better chance than any other currently identifiable group of being the political in-crowd in 10-15 years time.

    It's known as 'buying on the dips'.
    Have you seen Conservative favourability amongst the young, and that is counting the middle aged as young. Can't imagine the oddities who are today's young conservatives as they were truly weird ten+ years ago.
    Agree, of course. But unless we enter a one party state we are going to have two parties, and one of them is going to be the successor to Heseltine/Clarke/Thatcher/Patten/Hunt. Let's call it centre right.

    Which party would a young, ambitious, talented person join who has centre type views, sees a whole crowd of the ambitious peers joining Labour, wants to spot a gap in the market for political careers and wants to be MP for a Lincolnshire/southern rural seat? The Tories are currently the only option.
    Think it already exists - it is called the Labour Party.
    Noted. I'm asking the question about a two party state and what is the likely name of the second one.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,633
    Not sure Nigel being leader will make much difference

    In the end most people saying REF in the polls will go back to CON. With some going to LAB

    No seats or close 2nds for REF
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    tlg86 said:

    Warmest May on record. Being scoffed at on Twitter, but my guess is that the night time temperatures haven't been all that low.

    They shouldn’t have banned sulphur from the fuel of large ships.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/may/30/termination-shock-cut-in-ship-pollution-sparked-global-heating-spurt
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    I'm guessing that implies vote shares of c.42% to 30%.
    14 point lead I think Luke said. 42 28
    10,000 sample during April and 5000 since GE called to account for changes
    Sorry 43 to 29, which is the highest equal Tory share this year
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,473

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    I'm guessing that implies vote shares of c.42% to 30%.
    14 point lead I think Luke said. 42 28
    10,000 sample during April and 5000 since GE called to account for changes
    A bit historic in parts, before the drowned rat launch...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,307
    He's surely got to stand if he's going to be leader. Maybe they want to tease it out longer so he can announce the seat separately.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,873
    Tice has been completely undermined, and unless Farage finds somewhere fast he's going to look almost as stupid. A leader not leading.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    This will probably be the kindest poll for the Conservatives today.

    By "kindest", I mean they'll only be slaughtered. Not totally destroyed.
    It's not great is it? I mean it's not quite as bad as 1997 but it's pretty close.
    Feels wildly optimistic for the Conservatives to me.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,141

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    This will probably be the kindest poll for the Conservatives today.

    By "kindest", I mean they'll only be slaughtered. Not totally destroyed.
    If that were the outcome, it would almost feel like a victory, expectations are so low.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    ToryJim said:
    Humiliation for Tice then
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,396
    Think Farage scents blood and has realised this is a once-in-a-century chance to kill off a major party, similar to what Labour did to the Liberals in the 1920s.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314

    ToryJim said:
    Humiliation for Tice then
    Tice bitten, once shy.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Tice is such a beta cuck
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Think Farage scents blood and has realised this is a once-in-a-century chance to kill off a major party, similar to what Labour did to the Liberals in the 1920s.

    Nah, this was the plan all along. Pretend everyone is asking him to run etc.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited June 3

    Think Farage scents blood and has realised this is a once-in-a-century chance to kill off a major party, similar to what Labour did to the Liberals in the 1920s.

    More like he'll get a few trinkets from the tories like ECHR, etc. in exchange for standing down in a few hundred seats.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,463

    Farage becomes leader of Reform.

    Is he actually standing to be an MP then?
    If not, he's not showing much leadership, is he?
    Farage to stand!
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185

    ToryJim said:
    Humiliation for Tice then
    At least he’s no longer being fisted up to the diaphragm to get him reading from Farage’s script.
  • AbandonedHopeAbandonedHope Posts: 144

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    This will probably be the kindest poll for the Conservatives today.

    By "kindest", I mean they'll only be slaughtered. Not totally destroyed.
    It's not great is it? I mean it's not quite as bad as 1997 but it's pretty close.
    Perhaps the comparisons to 1997 have been right all along. I can't help but think that it's being overly generous to the Tories though.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Think Farage scents blood and has realised this is a once-in-a-century chance to kill off a major party, similar to what Labour did to the Liberals in the 1920s.

    Or his US horse has been shot and he needs to jump-start his domestic grift.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,641
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's looking as if the Conservatives have reached the same point as the Liberals in 1924. They just don't speak for anyone, anymore. I wonder what comes next.

    A new centre right party.
    If you are aged about 16-late 20s, are interested in a career in politics and want to be ahead of the curve then this - and the next 12-24 months - could be the time to very quietly join the Conservative party and get yourself involved. They have a better chance than any other currently identifiable group of being the political in-crowd in 10-15 years time.

    It's known as 'buying on the dips'.
    Have you seen Conservative favourability amongst the young, and that is counting the middle aged as young. Can't imagine the oddities who are today's young conservatives as they were truly weird ten+ years ago.
    Agree, of course. But unless we enter a one party state we are going to have two parties, and one of them is going to be the successor to Heseltine/Clarke/Thatcher/Patten/Hunt. Let's call it centre right.

    Which party would a young, ambitious, talented person join who has centre type views, sees a whole crowd of the ambitious peers joining Labour, wants to spot a gap in the market for political careers and wants to be MP for a Lincolnshire/southern rural seat? The Tories are currently the only option.
    IF we assume voting patterns are hard to change and the young are disinclined to vote Conservative I'm not sure. I can see your point but to join in the nadir of a party suffering from natural attrition of its voting block seems a gamble for the future SPAD.

    It upsets me but I can see the Labour party becoming En Marche like and squatting on the centre. The blowback being an invigorated Conservative-Reform hybrid and an enraged Green-ex Lab coalition.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Farage stands in CLACTON
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,463
    CLACTON

    END OF THE PIER SHOW!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    Can some Baxter that Redfield poll for me?

    Lab 538 (+341)
    Cons 24 (-352)
    Lib 51 (+43)
    Ref 0 (0)
    Green 1 (0)
    SNP 14 (-34)
    PC 4 (+2)

    I step away from the computer for a couple of hours and the Tories are... well... the words "Stepmom" and "Pornhub" come to mind.
    The thing is that Redfield and Wilton poll could be wrong. Very wrong. And it could still be the Tories worst election result essentially since the Tories first existed, something like 28% of the vote and 140 seats.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,633
    Farage standing in Clacton simply gives it to LAB.

    Don't forget LAB won it in 1997 (then known as Harwich)
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,396
    edited June 3
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:
    Humiliation for Tice then
    At least he’s no longer being fisted up to the diaphragm to get him reading from Farage’s script.
    It's a whole chain of fists really. Putin > Trump > Farage > Tice
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's looking as if the Conservatives have reached the same point as the Liberals in 1924. They just don't speak for anyone, anymore. I wonder what comes next.

    A great grandchild of Boris falling off a paddle board c.2124?
    What comes next? National Conservatives, Unionist Conservatives, Indpeendent Conservatives, Con-Labs, and a book 'The strange death of Conservative England'.
    Has to be a murdered dog somewhere in the mix.
    Possibly cooked and eaten.

    Lol, Tories sinking

    Labour 46% (–)
    Conservative 20% (-3)
    Reform UK 14% (+1)
    Liberal Democrat 10% (+1)
    Green 5% (–)
    Scottish National Party 2% (-1)
    Other 2% (-1)

    Redfield

    Yeah at this stage my prediction they wouldn’t sink below 150 seats is looking rocky…

    Campaign looks to be focussing minds, but against them.
    True enough, but are they really 13% behind with the over 65s? Noone else other than Techne has them losing the grey vote. Redfields age curve is ridiculously flat.
    That's not to say wrong but I just don't buy it, and it's been consistent with them for weeks.
    It seems unlikely, but it's not implausible that my fellow +65s have shifted to Labour a bit. I'm not sure that the Tories are offering that age group much more than Labour are - the unfreezing of the tax allowance for state pensioners is small beer. And for many of us oldies, improving the NHS is the most urgent need.

    And, I've said this before but will say it again, many of us oldies vote with our children and grandchildren in mind - not just our own interests. The Tories haven't offered mine much to write home about.
    Quite so. Remember those four wordclouds from different age groups. The NHS was top for the oldies.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    This could destroy the Tories FOREVER
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    tlg86 said:

    Warmest May on record. Being scoffed at on Twitter, but my guess is that the night time temperatures haven't been all that low.

    May 1833 had a higher Central England Temperature. Must be Scotland making the difference.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    Managed to get £4 on Reform at 2-1 in Clacton before Bet365 pulled the market.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    I'm guessing that implies vote shares of c.42% to 30%.
    14 point lead I think Luke said. 42 28
    10,000 sample during April and 5000 since GE called to account for changes
    The MRP model is based on voting intention data collected between 9 April and 29 May from 15,089 adults in Great Britain.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/general-election-2024/mrp/

    Fieldwork spread over 7 weeks! This isn't really comparable to other recent polls, then - and, perhaps, is adding more heat than light...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,463
    Farage to be leader for next five years. His goal is seemingly to destroy the Tory Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    edited June 3
    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's looking as if the Conservatives have reached the same point as the Liberals in 1924. They just don't speak for anyone, anymore. I wonder what comes next.

    A new centre right party.
    If you are aged about 16-late 20s, are interested in a career in politics and want to be ahead of the curve then this - and the next 12-24 months - could be the time to very quietly join the Conservative party and get yourself involved. They have a better chance than any other currently identifiable group of being the political in-crowd in 10-15 years time.

    It's known as 'buying on the dips'.
    Or being a Commander in the Royal Navy, with some experience of action, when the Peace of Amiens ends.

    Of course, it might turn out to be the equivalent of 1814 instead of 1804.

    Just think of this famous cartoon of a young trainee naval officer c. 1816: the joke being that middies had no half pay.

    https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-127857
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,633
    Leon said:

    This could destroy the Tories FOREVER

    Or maybe it won't...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668

    Leon said:

    This could destroy the Tories FOREVER

    Or maybe it won't...
    lol. Bye bye
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:
    Humiliation for Tice then
    At least he’s no longer being fisted up to the diaphragm to get him reading from Farage’s script.
    It's a whole chain of fists really. Putin > Trump > Farage > Tice
    The Human Centipede sequel nobody is asking for.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    That’s it game over for Sunak .

    Apparently he orders chicken and chips from Nandos , ok good so far then he says broccoli with it ! Who in their right mind orders broccoli with Nandos .
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185

    Farage becomes leader of Reform.

    Is he actually standing to be an MP then?
    If not, he's not showing much leadership, is he?
    Farage to stand!
    So every journalist should be asking him why just days ago he was saying he needed 6 months to build a campaign and get all the data. How can voters trust him if he isn’t even consistent from one week to the next? Isn’t he just using the voters of Clacton as padding for his ego etc etc.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    Clever feint by Farage to make it look like he wasn't standing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Did anyone really think Farage wasn’t running?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853
    Game over for the Tories. Hope noone bought them on the spreads !
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    This is outstandingly good news for the LibDems. Every percentage point Reform takes off the Tories in the supposed Blue Wall gets the LibDems a percentage point closer to taking the seat.

    For Labour it's more of a mixed bag I suspect: Farage will be taking votes from them as well as the Tories.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    It’s so sad for the Tories tho. Everyone loves them and they are so determined to do their best and they really tried and

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    nico679 said:

    That’s it game over for Sunak .

    Apparently he orders chicken and chips from Nandos , ok good so far then he says broccoli with it ! Who in their right mind orders broccoli with Nandos .

    I would just say it was over for Sunak long ago
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,764
    The Farage Show begins….

  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Chris said:

    Eabhal said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Incredible that Labour are pushing on defence and the Tories are pushing on gender reform. The entire framing of the Conservative campaign is wrong. It's not even a core vote strategy any more. There's no strategy. It's a series of wild, random announcements.

    My working theory is that current Conservative voters are approx 3x closer to Labour than they are to Reform on social issues.

    Any attempt to bag Reform voters using culture war stuff is highly risky. I'd stick with broader economic/demographic factors like inheritance, house values, even a last ditch attempt to defend their record on the NHS (massive increase in spending etc). This is where Conservative and Reform voters are most similar.
    I'd have thought one danger would be that Reform might start fighting back - for example by turning the spotlight on the huge rate of legal immigration under the Tories, and condemning the Rwanda scheme as the dishonest gimmick it is.

    Farage's announcement may be interesting.
    Spooky.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,463

    Leon said:

    This could destroy the Tories FOREVER

    Or maybe it won't...
    Genuine question, will Farage’s leadership and candidacy actually make much difference? Nige was Lino anyway.
  • Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 67

    Farage to be leader for next five years. His goal is seemingly to destroy the Tory Party.

    Or to replace it
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    AlsoLei said:

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    I'm guessing that implies vote shares of c.42% to 30%.
    14 point lead I think Luke said. 42 28
    10,000 sample during April and 5000 since GE called to account for changes
    The MRP model is based on voting intention data collected between 9 April and 29 May from 15,089 adults in Great Britain.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/general-election-2024/mrp/

    Fieldwork spread over 7 weeks! This isn't really comparable to other recent polls, then - and, perhaps, is adding more heat than light...
    5000 since the election was called to try and smooth any movement since the April polling of 10,000
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    edited June 3
    Not sure Farage standing in Clacton makes much difference . The fact he’s now the official head of Reform means he’ll l get even more media attention .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,307
    Shaking up the election like this after the Tories have already tried and failed to attract Reform voters could turn out to be a brilliant strategy. Farage has ensured he gets more attention than he otherwise would have done.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853

    This is outstandingly good news for the LibDems. Every percentage point Reform takes off the Tories in the supposed Blue Wall gets the LibDems a percentage point closer to taking the seat.

    For Labour it's more of a mixed bag I suspect: Farage will be taking votes from them as well as the Tories.

    The biggest (And this makes sense) factor in determining the Lib Dem seat count is the % gap in VI between themselves and the Tories I believe.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Farage is the most naturally gifted politician in the country, now that Boris is gone and discredited and Sturgeon is so humbled and tarnished

    I personally find him quite Marmitey. He can be very offputting, and sometimes that matey smarm is pukeworthy. However he is gifted, no doubt about it
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583

    Farage to be leader for next five years. His goal is seemingly to destroy the Tory Party.

    Worth pointing out that he'll take a few votes off Labour too. But probably not in places where it matters. And even if it does it's not like Labour are looking nervously at whether they can make 325 MPs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    nico679 said:

    That’s it game over for Sunak .

    Apparently he orders chicken and chips from Nandos , ok good so far then he says broccoli with it ! Who in their right mind orders broccoli with Nandos .

    FTFY
  • johntjohnt Posts: 166
    Leon said:

    This could destroy the Tories FOREVER

    I think that Farage has picked up on an important point. As the accepted wisdom is now that Starmer has won the Sunak attempts to bully people into voting for him as 'the only alternative to a labour victory' simply do not work. Sunak needs to urgently find something more persuasive to people or he is looking at a very difficult few weeks.
    Problem is I don't think he knows how to change direction.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    So Reform get their Dick out because Farage wants to take part in the 7-way debate proving, if proof were needed, that he is the greatest mass debater in British politics?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    edited June 3
    Farage returns as Reform UK leader and candidate for Clacton. Clearly the temptation to overtake Sunak's Tories and lead the main party of the right in the UK and main opposition to a likely Starmer government was too much. If he did so, within a decade unless we switched to PR Reform would almost certainly take over the Tory rump under FPTP as its Canadian cousins did to realign the right in a more populist direction in the UK.

    Some cynics may also say that Trump's conviction reduced his chances of winning in the US and thus Nigel's chances of a job from the next POTUS but I couldn't possibly comment!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,796

    Farage becomes leader of Reform.

    Is he actually standing to be an MP then?
    If not, he's not showing much leadership, is he?
    Forward lads, I’m right behind you.
  • James_MJames_M Posts: 103
    Did I just hear a career politician lambast career politicians and a self-appointed leader of a political party lambast Sunak for not being elected by MPs?! Couldn't make it up!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    The assumption Farage as leader is worse for the Tories than Labour is 'brave'.
    The disgruntled Tories have already jumped. The Kipper Labour vote otoh.......
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    The idea that the Tories are dead is nonsense. Even if the horror show Baxterising comes true, they have thousands of councillors and hundreds of Lords and have been the party of government for 32 of the last 45 years.

    They have donors, networks, members, infrastructure. Only five years ago, 14 million people voted for them. They are facing an absolute pasting but not extinction. Not yet, anyway.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    edited June 3
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Warmest May on record. Being scoffed at on Twitter, but my guess is that the night time temperatures haven't been all that low.

    May 1833 had a higher Central England Temperature. Must be Scotland making the difference.
    UK figures only go back to 1910, I think. At least in the data series the Met Office use for this. Presumably there's a lack of data coverage and lower confidence in the data quality beforehand.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,463
    Leon said:

    Farage is the most naturally gifted politician in the country, now that Boris is gone and discredited and Sturgeon is so humbled and tarnished

    I personally find him quite Marmitey. He can be very offputting, and sometimes that matey smarm is pukeworthy. However he is gifted, no doubt about it

    He’s box office. Very entertaining to watch. Quite like the way he takes the royal piss out of the press pack.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,134
    Farage wouldn't be standing if the Tories were averaging 28-29%. It's that 23% figure that's done it.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,889
    kjh said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sunak has just retweeted the Lib Dem boat thing, highlighting it to his 2.3 million followers.

    CCHQ have gone bananas

    https://x.com/RishiSunak/status/1797607539452096558?t=0z9mOdFHgody1fohpZlB1Q&s=19

    Us LDs might not (well I think that is pretty certain actually) win the election, but we are having a lot of fun not doing so. We are certainly having a jolly good time in Guildford.
    A lot of fun...... Yes indeed....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226

    This is outstandingly good news for the LibDems. Every percentage point Reform takes off the Tories in the supposed Blue Wall gets the LibDems a percentage point closer to taking the seat.

    For Labour it's more of a mixed bag I suspect: Farage will be taking votes from them as well as the Tories.

    Hence Rishi needs a massive IHT cut targeted at bluewall voters, ideally raising the threshold to £2 million. In the redwall though as you say Farage will take some Labour Leave voters as well as Tories to Reform
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,419
    edited June 3
    Do the politicial journalists actually listen to speeches?

    Farage spent about 5 minutes explaining the decision for his U-turn (if we believe it or not is another matter). Question from BBC...why did you chance your mind?
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,415
    nico679 said:

    That’s it game over for Sunak .

    Apparently he orders chicken and chips from Nandos , ok good so far then he says broccoli with it ! Who in their right mind orders broccoli with Nandos .

    Oof. I actually really like Nando's lemon & garlic broccoli. With chicken thighs, spicy rice, and x-hot sauce, thanks.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Certainly not dissing the More in Common MRP just because it has the implied lead at 14%.

    However … fieldwork 9-29th May. 2/3rds of the fieldwork was before Sunak called the election :o

    And that kind of shows in their estimate of SNP seats at 35. They’d bite your hand off for 35 seats right now imho.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,749
    Farage has shaken the election but not sure he will even win his seat

    I still think he is hoping to be Trump's UK Ambassador
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,185
    James_M said:

    Did I just hear a career politician lambast career politicians and a self-appointed leader of a political party lambast Sunak for not being elected by MPs?! Couldn't make it up!

    Well quite. Plus this election is about the future of the country not the future of Farage’s ego. Someone in the Tory party should do a clip along the lines of “This election is about you, your hopes, your dreams, whether you get a decent job etc etc don’t let Nigel Farage make this all about him.”
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Long time reader, first time poster. I used to live in Macclesfield. It was certainly Tory through and through then, and hasn't seen significant demographic change since. Its been Tory for over a century. While my own politics would love to see it change hands, I just don't see where that 93% is coming from.

    Last locals in 2023 saw a slight Conservative lead, though independents muddy it a bit, some of the largest wards like traditionally Tory Tytherington have resident associations. The town itself returns Labour councillors, but much of the seat is more rural, and includes areas like the millionaires row of Prestbury.

    I have bets on the Conservatives at 9/2 in Macclesfield and 6/5 in neighbouring Tatton, a 17,000 majority that is the Cheshire Set all over.

    6/5 for Tatton is decent.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696

    Sean_F said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    I'm guessing that implies vote shares of c.42% to 30%.
    14 point lead I think Luke said. 42 28
    10,000 sample during April and 5000 since GE called to account for changes
    Luke 42: 28? The Gospel of Luke only has 24 chapters. Did you mean Luke 24: 28? "As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus continued on as if he were going farther."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,226
    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    Tories and Rishi would take that today, a higher seat total than 1997 or 2001 and breathe a sigh of relief.

    However that was before Farage's announcement which could make things interesting again
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited June 3
    Heathener said:

    Certainly not dissing the More in Common MRP just because it has the implied lead at 14%.

    However … fieldwork 9-29th May. 2/3rds of the fieldwork was before Sunak called the election :o

    And that kind of shows in their estimate of SNP seats at 35. They’d bite your hand off for 35 seats right now imho.

    Same as the other MRP.
    They explain the methodology as 5000 since the GE called to smooth out any 'change' since the original 10,000.
    The GE call has seen minimal change in VI
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,955
    It looks to me as if that cricket is being played in Nassau County, New York -- which is just next to Queens borough/county -- home of the Loser who was just convicted of 34 counts. But I don't follow the sport, so I could be wrong.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassau_County,_New_York
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queens
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    Do the politician journalists actually listen to speeches?

    Farage spent about 5 minutes explaining the decision for his U-turn (if we believe it or not is another matter). Question from BBC...why did you chance your mind?

    "Why aren't you doing this in Clacton?"

    "Because you lot won't go there."
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    edited June 3

    Farage becomes leader of Reform.

    Is that so he can appear in debates
    I think he could still have stepped in, otherwise Theresa May avoiding all those GE debates wouldn't have worked.

    No doubt Farage and Tice have got some sort of plan. Perhaps smelling blood in the water around Sunak's hapless Tory Party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344

    Farage stands in CLACTON

    The 8th time he will have stood for Westminster - and lost.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Heathener said:

    Certainly not dissing the More in Common MRP just because it has the implied lead at 14%.

    However … fieldwork 9-29th May. 2/3rds of the fieldwork was before Sunak called the election :o

    And that kind of shows in their estimate of SNP seats at 35. They’d bite your hand off for 35 seats right now imho.

    CORRECTION

    It’s even worse than I thought. Wiki shows it 9-29 May because their box isn’t big enough for fieldwork spread over such a wide time period.

    It’s in fact 9th April to 29th May.

    I’m afraid this really isn’t a very up to speed poll or national seat prediction.

    Let’s see how the YouGov MRP looks out shortly with, presumably, much fresher data.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Shaking up the election like this after the Tories have already tried and failed to attract Reform voters could turn out to be a brilliant strategy. Farage has ensured he gets more attention than he otherwise would have done.

    He’ll be in the media every day attacking the Tories from the right.

    Nightmare for Sunak.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Farage has shaken the election but not sure he will even win his seat

    I still think he is hoping to be Trump's UK Ambassador

    I'd guess he has a reasonable chance but is probably hoping he doesn't; the last thing he wants is the difficult and boring stuff that comes with being an actual MP.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    edited June 3
    Re Scotland, the expanded regional Scottish sample would see the SNP facing their own wipeout on 23%, the Tories, Labour and LDs hoovering up seats from them
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,764
    Reform/Tory crossover would be fun. Because at that point, if the media start pointing and saying “good god, Reform are now in second place!” it could potentially start a flood of votes over to them. Think Canada 1993.

    You’re the second party until you’re not.

    I don’t think it will happen, but with the Tories absolutely floundering and Farage (who although a man with a lot of baggage does have his target consistencies) re-entering the fray, it’s looking much more likely today than it was yesterday.
  • Jim_the_LurkerJim_the_Lurker Posts: 175
    On Farage - I read in the FT that he owns something like 50% of Reform. It seems so odd that a political party can be structured in such a way.

    He knows how to make news though, if not how to win Parliamentary elections. Not sure what this adds. Although given Sunak has already thrown the red meat of National Service to gull the Reform contingent. What is left hanging, corporal punishment? Pounds, shillings and pence?

    On Macc and Maidstone - I should have added earlier that the north of Macc constituency (Prestbury / Poynton is true blue). But I note in the More in Common data that it has Macc as turning red (in best case and worst case scenario for the Conservatives). Maidstone stays blue.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080

    Shaking up the election like this after the Tories have already tried and failed to attract Reform voters could turn out to be a brilliant strategy. Farage has ensured he gets more attention than he otherwise would have done.

    It's lame. Farage's failure to campaign actively since the Truss Debacle shows that he's not interested enough to put the work in to get anywhere. His decision a week ago not to stand was lame. His decision now to change his mind because he's seen how poor the competition is and he wants some attention is pathetically transparent.

    The media will be delighted. They will be all over it. They'll give him an enormous boost because they're desperate for something interesting to happen, and so far they've only had Ed Davey falling off a paddle board to work with.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Andy_JS said:

    Farage wouldn't be standing if the Tories were averaging 28-29%. It's that 23% figure that's done it.

    Yep he thinks he can be the one to deal the final death blow.

    He might be right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    Farage made more interesting and/or compelling points in that 20 minutes than any other party leader has done in the entire election to date, combined

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,696
    Farooq said:

    Think Farage scents blood and has realised this is a once-in-a-century chance to kill off a major party, similar to what Labour did to the Liberals in the 1920s.

    7th place in the election is a real possibility for Reform
    In seats or votes? On seats, 11th or 12th is possible. On votes, I'd be surprised if they came worse than 6th.
This discussion has been closed.