Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A tale of two seats: Maidstone and Macclesfield – politicalbetting.com

15678911»

Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party

    So in 2019 there was a lot of chat about the end of Labour. Five short years (tumultuous years to be sure) and we are on the brink of a huge Labour majority.

    I don't think that the centuries old Conservative and Unionist party will die quite so easily. They will do what they always do - eventually they will find a route back to power. It may take five years, it may take 15, but it will happen. If Labour get a huge majority and end up with two or three terms they will lose the plot too. The discipline that gets you into power goes when you have been in government too long. We see it it today in team Blue. It will come for team Red just the same (potentially around 2036...)
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Labour majority of 194, says the Sky MRP.

    Seems a bit toppy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    edited June 3
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    YouGov MRP is out


  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible

    LAB 422
    CON 140
    LD 48
    SNP 17
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Heathener said:

    HYUFD said:

    ToryJim said:

    🚨🚨 Our first @Moreincommon_ @TheNewsAgents MRP of the campaign projects a Labour majority of 114
    🔴 Labour 382 (+180)
    🔵 Conservative 180 (-185)
    🟠 Lib Dem 30 (+19)
    🟡 SNP 35 (-13)
    🟢Plaid 3 (-1)
    🟩 Green 1 (-)
    Changes on 2019 actual seat totals

    However that was before Farage's announcement which could make things interesting again
    It was before an awful lot of things ;)

    9th April to 29th May. Hmmm.
    What exactly do you think has changed in the period that the 1/3 of the 15,000 sample taken since the GE was called specifically to ameliorate wouldn't cover?
    They say they weight by recency which should reduce the risk of any bias - and as you say the polls haven't moved much over the period, with the only noticeable shift being a 2-3% increase in the average Labour share.

    I don't think there's necessarily any issue with the MiC poll, it's just that it can't be compared directly with the other polls we've been talking about. It's certainly a good starting point for further research, especially into those 117 'too close to call' seats.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    TOPPING said:

    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party

    Absolutely. A good lesson which no doubt will be ignored next time round.
    It’s not a new thing. Indeed it’s been around since at least the English Civil War and the regicide

    “Every revolution devours its children”
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,212

    Given his electoral history, Farage could be the dampest squid of a very boring campaign.

    I’d be interested to any effect in the next few polls.

    Nigel is many things to many people, but boring?
    I know that @Leon sees him as the second coming or something, but his electoral history doesn’t suggest a poll shifting tidal wave.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    'Emergency announcement'.

    Fuck me, that traitor has some brass neck on him
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    Labour majority of 194, says the Sky MRP.

    Seems a bit toppy.

    What makes you say that?

    Redfield & Wilton have the Conservatives on just 20% - this suggests low 20s which is well in line with most polls.
  • tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    That is a devastating poll for the SNP.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    Wavey Davey will be happy with that. The Splash Strategy is certainly working!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible

    LAB 422
    CON 140
    LD 48
    SNP 17
    Looks pretty plausible to me.

    I’ve just broken the 1 image rule. Please @TSE don’t banish me to the outer darkness. It was, after all, to post up the MRP poll finding ;)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    James_M said:

    Did I just hear a career politician lambast career politicians and a self-appointed leader of a political party lambast Sunak for not being elected by MPs?! Couldn't make it up!

    Well quite. Plus this election is about the future of the country not the future of Farage’s ego. Someone in the Tory party should do a clip along the lines of “This election is about you, your hopes, your dreams, whether you get a decent job etc etc don’t let Nigel Farage make this all about him.”
    Well maybe your party shouldn’t have allowed in 2 million migrants in 3 years? Without asking anyone, and against the expressed wishes of every poll on this issue since the year zero? Just a thought
    Reform will end up with no seats, they will have cut the legs off the Tories who will lose more seats to Labour than they were already going to and end up with the prize of a party with a giant majority who are even less keen on smashing immigration and more likely to strengthen UK /EU ties.

    It takes a specially skilled politician to take the country even further from where they and their core voters want it to be. But Nigel will be front and centre and that’s what counts.
    I don’t care. I want the Tories destroyed. It may take two elections but this is the necessary beginning, every journey single step etc etc
    The destruction of the Tories is a fait accompli now that Nigel has flicked his mighty fingers. The question now is where does Sir Keir go from here? Voters who were repelled by his wokery now have a home. We may see them abandon Labour in droves. This is a perilous moment for Sir Keir. Labour might even go for the nuclear option and replace him with a more Blue Labour type. The political universe has been upended. There are no longer any certainties.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    Scott_xP said:

    If Richi announces leaving the ECHR tomorrow, when does he announce the death penalty?

    Depends who he wants the death penalty for. If we are talking about his Special Advisers, could be tomorrow.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    I think it will be a bit closer in the end, say LAB 375 CON 175, LAB 400 certainly possible, it has happened quite recently 1997 2001
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Chameleon said:

    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1797649013371793481

    "Nigel Farage has better favourables among the Conservative base than Rishi Suank. How important is this?"

    Among all voters:

    Sunak: -41
    Farage: -24

    Tory voters:

    Sunk: -2
    Farage: +26

    Real real risk for Sunak here that a bit more noise and it could become a stampede towards reform.

    They're quite astonishing figures.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344

    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible

    LAB 422
    CON 140
    LD 48
    SNP 17
    At least it's better than Find Out Now. Why do Yougov's MRP polls generally imply a lower Labour lead than standard voting intention polls (I guess this must be something like a 16% lead).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Taz said:
    Do we know the fieldwork dates?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited June 3

    Sandpit said:

    This is where bad AI is going, and very soon.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/03/russia-makes-fake-tom-cruise-paris-olympics-violence-video/

    The Microsoft report unmasked “prolific Russian influence actors” who last summer began trashing this summer’s Games in the French capital and Emmanuel Macron, the president, including by posting a bogus documentary featuring the Top Gun: Maverick star.

    To accompany the fake Netflix documentary, which is narrated by an AI-generated Tom Cruise, Russia mocked up reviews of the programme from David Beckham, Jared Leto, Miley Cyrus and Mike Tyson.

    “These ongoing Russian influence operations have two central objectives: to denigrate the reputation of the [International Olympic Committee] on the world stage, and to create the expectation of violence breaking out in Paris during the 2024 Summer Olympic Games,” the report said.

    Do any banks still offer the voice recognition to authorise you when you phone up? If they do, and you have it, disable it now.
    Yes, it’s effing scary if someone wants to target you. It’s gone very quickly from fakes of Obama and Rogan, to pretty much anyone who’s spoken in to a microphone for a few minutes. Anyone with any record of public speaking should be worried at this point, and the rest of us are not far behind.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    People are exceeding their quota of photos. Any further infractions and the ability to add photos will be removed for everybody
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    That is a devastating poll for the SNP.
    That was one of my ? about the MiC one. 35 seats for SNP looks unlikely and just isn’t in tune with the current Scottish trajectory, where bad news seems to be tumbling out for the Nats on an almost daily basis.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    I think it will be a bit closer in the end, say LAB 375 CON 175, LAB 400 certainly possible, it has happened quite recently 1997 2001

    Essentially we're at the point where the swing is so large that even a MoE swign will result in massive changes - one the MRP earlier today a MoE polling error, a 3% Tory -> RFM swing, or more efficient tactical voting and half of the remaining 150 odd seats would fall as they had Con majorities of 5% or less.
  • In East Hants, one of the safer Tory seats I know, if all the Labour voters vote Lib Dem (and why would they vote Labour?), the Tories will lose it
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    YouGov in line with the worst case MiC outcome. 1997 looks a very apposite benchmark
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    This is an object lesson for the Tories, not that it makes any difference now. If you try to pander to the right then a) the right hates you; and b) it will fail.

    In 18 generations time and a similar situation reoccurs then hopefully they will remember 2024.

    Do bugger off. There have been zero actual right think policies since 'the grown ups' came back into the room.
    @TOPPING seems to believe extremely high tax, high spend, high debt economic policies, allied with the greatest wave of immigration in all of British history, is “right wing”

    I fear for these people when an actual government with right wing policies comes along, because it will. Probably not now, but in time, it always does
    You meanwhile are unable either to define what right wing means, or understand the relative position of the parties so I'll stick with the I know it when I see it with this version of the Conservative Party.

    Or you can use toxic motherfuckers if you prefer another description.
    Right wing = low tax, low spend, low debt, low immigration, but plenty on defence. Also roll back anything remotely Woke, leave the ECHR, get rid of any lefty lawyers who have any influence anywhere, and make the BBC play Land of Hope and Glory every thirty minutes and make everyone in Islington STAND while this happens

    There, sorted
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    That is a devastating poll for the SNP.
    And splendid for the LibDems - as well as us, of course!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Taz said:
    Do we know the fieldwork dates?
    24th May to 01st June
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    DON'T PANIC!

    @montie

    THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE NIGHTMARE FOR THE CONSERVATIVES.
    The party should have dumped Sunak.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited June 3
    Some good news....

    ....It also projects that the Scottish National Party would lose more than half their seats, with Labour returning as the largest party north of the border.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49606-first-yougov-mrp-of-2024-general-election-shows-labour-on-track-to-beat-1997-landslide
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible

    LAB 422
    CON 140
    LD 48
    SNP 17
    Tories would take 140 seats now and still main Opposition
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    stodge said:

    Labour majority of 194, says the Sky MRP.

    Seems a bit toppy.

    What makes you say that?

    Redfield & Wilton have the Conservatives on just 20% - this suggests low 20s which is well in line with most polls.
    It would mean Sir Keir beating Blair’s result in 1997. I just can’t see it. Maybe I’m wrong.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    So looking at the MRP for Clacton:

    Con - 38%
    Lab - 28%
    Reform - 22%

    So Farage in with a chance but also Lab
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    People are exceeding their quota of photos. Any further infractions and the ability to add photos will be removed for everybody

    I’d just like to point out this ain’t me! One photo per calendar day, as instructed

    WHOEVER IS DOING THIS, STOP. I LIKE POSTING MY DAILY PHOTO

    Ah, it’s @Heathener
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Hunt losing by 15 points according to the MRP.
  • novanova Posts: 690
    kjh said:

    Jeez, that MRP has some bloody close seats.

    Seats where the Tories hold on by 1.0% or less include:
    10 where Labour are within 1.0%
    6 where the Lib Dems are within 1.0% (including Didcot and Wantage, the headline being a 33-33 tie between the Tories and Lib Dems with Labour behind on 24, but to 1 decimal place has 33.4-32.6 to the Tories)
    2 with the SNP within 1.0%
    And two that are three-way ultra-marginals (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine with the SNP 0.1% ahead of the Tories and the Lib Dems a further 1.6% behind, and Woking, with the Tories holding on and Labour and the Lib Dems within three percent of them)

    Not sure I buy some of the constituency predictions elsewhere in the dataset (or in the ones mentioned, sometimes: West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, for example - I mean, I'd love it if the Lib Dems were that close, but I can't convince myself it's true)

    I despair of these MRP polls. There is no way that Lab and LDs are tied 3% behind the Tories in Woking. This is a Tory/LD fight. Until a few weeks ago I would have said Tories holding on just, now I think the LDs will win it, but really Lab should be absolutely nowhere.

    The council is 24 LD, 0 Con, 1 Lab, 5 Ind. Labour were defending 1 seat in May and lost it.

    The last GE was 26K Con, 17K LD, 9K Lab

    And the LDs are targeting it. In what world are Lab challengers here?
    Don't the MRPs come with the caveat that they can't always predicting individual seats accurately?

    There will always be local quirks, odd events happening, unusually popular MPs, where they'll be wildly out - but they hope to get the majority of the seats right, and for the quirky ones to even themselves out across the whole sample.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    Some value here?

    @YouGov
    Our MRP has 131 seats as tossups (i.e. winning party lead of <5%) including one 3-way marginal - Frome and East Somerset, with the Tories, Labour and Lib Dems all on 25-30%.

    Here are the 30 most marginal seats according to the MRP:

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1797661262618444189
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 3

    YouGov in line with the worst case MiC outcome. 1997 looks a very apposite benchmark

    That’s been my prediction since May 23rd.

    However, the Conservative campaign is abysmal and now Farage has set the cat amongst the (right wing) pigeons.

    So who knows from here?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Taz said:
    Is it possible to see how individual constituencies would go in this MRP study?
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480

    stodge said:

    Labour majority of 194, says the Sky MRP.

    Seems a bit toppy.

    What makes you say that?

    Redfield & Wilton have the Conservatives on just 20% - this suggests low 20s which is well in line with most polls.
    It would mean Sir Keir beating Blair’s result in 1997. I just can’t see it. Maybe I’m wrong.
    Reality isn't indebted to your perspective in any way shape or form.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    People are exceeding their quota of photos. Any further infractions and the ability to add photos will be removed for everybody

    So I can't post that pic of Farage with Russian shill Donald Trump? Thats a pity.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    When do postal votes start going out?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    This is an object lesson for the Tories, not that it makes any difference now. If you try to pander to the right then a) the right hates you; and b) it will fail.

    In 18 generations time and a similar situation reoccurs then hopefully they will remember 2024.

    Do bugger off. There have been zero actual right think policies since 'the grown ups' came back into the room.
    @TOPPING seems to believe extremely high tax, high spend, high debt economic policies, allied with the greatest wave of immigration in all of British history, is “right wing”

    I fear for these people when an actual government with right wing policies comes along, because it will. Probably not now, but in time, it always does
    You meanwhile are unable either to define what right wing means, or understand the relative position of the parties so I'll stick with the I know it when I see it with this version of the Conservative Party.

    Or you can use toxic motherfuckers if you prefer another description.
    Right wing = low tax, low spend, low debt, low immigration, but plenty on defence. Also roll back anything remotely Woke, leave the ECHR, get rid of any lefty lawyers who have any influence anywhere, and make the BBC play Land of Hope and Glory every thirty minutes and make everyone in Islington STAND while this happens

    There, sorted
    For the current iteration of the Conservative Party it's a case of talking Right, but not acting Right.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773
    Icarus said:

    Proper PR is coming. If Labour get a massive majority they will have to vote for PR to keep the Conservatives/Reform out next time when things are still not working.

    I don't agree. FTTP is surely worse news for Con/Ref than PR.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620
    Leon said:

    People are exceeding their quota of photos. Any further infractions and the ability to add photos will be removed for everybody

    I’d just like to point out this ain’t me! One photo per calendar day, as instructed

    WHOEVER IS DOING THIS, STOP. I LIKE POSTING MY DAILY PHOTO

    Ah, it’s @Heathener
    Yes you have shown self restraint, although it just isn't Heathener over the last few days.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited June 3
    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:
    Is it possible to see how individual constituencies would go in this MRP study?
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPKQXD-XQAAxLYu?format=jpg&name=large

    Map above - useless hex map showing rough estimates below: https://yougov.co.uk/elections/uk/2024
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party

    Why do you say Brexit? It's failing to control migration, unless you think those are one and the same thing.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678
    Scott_xP said:

    DON'T PANIC!

    @montie

    THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE NIGHTMARE FOR THE CONSERVATIVES.
    The party should have dumped Sunak.

    The Tories need to get Boris to stand in Clacton. That's probably the one thing they can do to counter the Farage juggernaut.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    The juiciest target for Reform must be 2019 Boris voters who are currently planning to switch (back) to Labour. If he can peel them away whilst the Tories implode, anything is possible.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    NEW THREAD

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    mwadams said:

    148grss said:

    The Tory party is dead - the Labour party is the new centre right party in British politics.

    I actually agree with this. Labour are the Tories, but what is missing is an electoral equivalent of Old Labour. The Tory Party blew its chance to move into that position under Johnson.
    As I was saying the other day - if Lab end up at the top end of the expectations, and Cons sub 100, there is a huge opportunity for ~100 people on the left of Labour to become the new official opposition in a single bound.
    They won't, the only alternative to main opposition in the UK to the Tories now is Farage and if he does and a Starmer government mucks up the economy we could even have UK PM Farage in 5-10 years or so
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Heathener said:

    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible

    LAB 422
    CON 140
    LD 48
    SNP 17
    Looks pretty plausible to me.

    I’ve just broken the 1 image rule. Please @TSE don’t banish me to the outer darkness. It was, after all, to post up the MRP poll finding ;)
    I fessed up as soon as I realised.

    Mea culpa

    xx
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    My tongue in cheek prediction from earlier in the year. Can it all be condensed into the remaining four weeks?

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4660268/#Comment_4660268

    2024 could be a PPS (perfect populist storm):

    - Reform overtake the Tories triggering a meltdown of the party
    - A big chunk of the remaining Tory vote then switches sides and Reform approach 30% in the polls
    - Reform start breaking through in the Red Well leaving Keir Starmer's well planned strategy in disarray
    - Election ends in a hung parliament with the Tories wiped out

    Reform "breaking through" would involve a whole load of Jared O'Mara replays over the next two years.

    "Why no, we had no idea that our carefully vetted candidate for Penistone & Stocksbridge, A. Dolph Hilter, had such extreme views. How could we ever have foreseen that?"
    If we’re getting two or three hundred new MPs, there’s almost certainly an O’Mara in there somewhere.

    It still astonishes me that political parties can’t effectively vet MP candidates. If they can afford £500 for their deposit, they can afford £500 more to have someone read the last decade of their Twitter account.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    Farage overall favourability was -37 in the most recent yougov survey. Slightly better than Sunak, Hunt or Gove, but not a great baseline for progress.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49179-political-tracker-roundup-april-2024
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Leon said:

    People are exceeding their quota of photos. Any further infractions and the ability to add photos will be removed for everybody

    I’d just like to point out this ain’t me! One photo per calendar day, as instructed

    WHOEVER IS DOING THIS, STOP. I LIKE POSTING MY DAILY PHOTO

    Ah, it’s @Heathener
    Yes you have shown self restraint, although it just isn't Heathener over the last few days.
    This is the first time I’ve double imaged in a day.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party

    Absolutely. A good lesson which no doubt will be ignored next time round.
    It’s not a new thing. Indeed it’s been around since at least the English Civil War and the regicide

    “Every revolution devours its children”
    Indeed. I was at Naseby last week aamof.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    edited June 3
    Will post on new thread
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    kjh said:

    Jeez, that MRP has some bloody close seats.

    Seats where the Tories hold on by 1.0% or less include:
    10 where Labour are within 1.0%
    6 where the Lib Dems are within 1.0% (including Didcot and Wantage, the headline being a 33-33 tie between the Tories and Lib Dems with Labour behind on 24, but to 1 decimal place has 33.4-32.6 to the Tories)
    2 with the SNP within 1.0%
    And two that are three-way ultra-marginals (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine with the SNP 0.1% ahead of the Tories and the Lib Dems a further 1.6% behind, and Woking, with the Tories holding on and Labour and the Lib Dems within three percent of them)

    Not sure I buy some of the constituency predictions elsewhere in the dataset (or in the ones mentioned, sometimes: West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, for example - I mean, I'd love it if the Lib Dems were that close, but I can't convince myself it's true)

    I despair of these MRP polls. There is no way that Lab and LDs are tied 3% behind the Tories in Woking. This is a Tory/LD fight. Until a few weeks ago I would have said Tories holding on just, now I think the LDs will win it, but really Lab should be absolutely nowhere.

    The council is 24 LD, 0 Con, 1 Lab, 5 Ind. Labour were defending 1 seat in May and lost it.

    The last GE was 26K Con, 17K LD, 9K Lab

    And the LDs are targeting it. In what world are Lab challengers here?
    Don't forget what happened in Hastings in 1997. Everyone thought the Tories would lose it to the LDs, but Labour came from third place. Same thing happened in Shrewsbury IIRC.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,286

    The Conservative candidate in Clacton is Giles Watling. He's 71 and the brother of Deborah Watling, who played Victoria along side the second Doctor in Doctor Who. He has also acted and appears in a Doctor Who audio play: https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/doctor-who-the-secret-history-872

    So the alternative to Farage is someone who likes to go back in time?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    There goes the copium....

    There are two important things to note when comparing Scottish data from this MRP to our previous, non-election campaign, models. Firstly, this is the largest Scottish sample that YouGov have used for an MRP since the 2019 general election. This gives us much more detail in terms of what is happening seat to seat. As well, we have been able to update some of the MRP target data with newly released 2022 Scottish census data.

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49606-first-yougov-mrp-of-2024-general-election-shows-labour-on-track-to-beat-1997-landslide

  • ScarpiaScarpia Posts: 69
    edited June 3



    ...Reform "breaking through" would involve a whole load of Jared O'Mara replays over the next two years.

    "Why no, we had no idea that our carefully vetted candidate for Penistone & Stocksbridge, A. Dolph Hilter, had such extreme views. How could we ever have foreseen that?"

    Indeed. It's worth looking past the bios on the ReFuk website and googling the relevant local newspaper archives to get a flavour of what might come
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Scott_xP said:

    DON'T PANIC!

    @montie

    THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE NIGHTMARE FOR THE CONSERVATIVES.
    The party should have dumped Sunak.

    And if that didn’t work do they dump them. No way that approach would have made things anything but worse. Also the idea voters are flocking to the centre left because the Tories weren’t right wing enough, which is the underlying inference, is so monumentally stupid it defies belief anyone can suggest it.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    Looking at my area, not much sign of tactical voting being that effective e.g.

    Wokingham - LD 34, Con 34, Lab 17
    Maidenhead - LD 34, Con 31, Lab 19
    Earley and Woodley - Lab 34, Con 30, LD 19
    Windsor - Con 33, Lab 26, LD 22

    So a glimmer of hop for Con, if they can get a modest swingback BUT it can also get worse with improved tactical voting.

    I was initially surprised at the Maidenhead forecast but I know Theresa May was very popular so her going may have made the difference.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited June 3

    Will post on new thread

    Edit
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 3

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    James_M said:

    Did I just hear a career politician lambast career politicians and a self-appointed leader of a political party lambast Sunak for not being elected by MPs?! Couldn't make it up!

    Well quite. Plus this election is about the future of the country not the future of Farage’s ego. Someone in the Tory party should do a clip along the lines of “This election is about you, your hopes, your dreams, whether you get a decent job etc etc don’t let Nigel Farage make this all about him.”
    Well maybe your party shouldn’t have allowed in 2 million migrants in 3 years? Without asking anyone, and against the expressed wishes of every poll on this issue since the year zero? Just a thought
    Reform will end up with no seats, they will have cut the legs off the Tories who will lose more seats to Labour than they were already going to and end up with the prize of a party with a giant majority who are even less keen on smashing immigration and more likely to strengthen UK /EU ties.

    It takes a specially skilled politician to take the country even further from where they and their core voters want it to be. But Nigel will be front and centre and that’s what counts.
    I don’t care. I want the Tories destroyed. It may take two elections but this is the necessary beginning, every journey single step etc etc
    The destruction of the Tories is a fait accompli now that Nigel has flicked his mighty fingers. The question now is where does Sir Keir go from here? Voters who were repelled by his wokery now have a home. We may see them abandon Labour in droves. This is a perilous moment for Sir Keir. Labour might even go for the nuclear option and replace him with a more Blue Labour type. The political universe has been upended. There are no longer any certainties.
    Maybe that's why Starmer was talking today about his willingness to use nuclear weapons. He was expecting the Farage announcement.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Andy_JS said:

    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party

    Why do you say Brexit? It's failing to control migration, unless you think those are one and the same thing.
    Brexit is part of the Conservative difficulty if not quite top of the list, because no perceived gain, all apparent problem. Those who do the dirty work tend to get the jail time.

    The biggest issue though is that people are just tired of them and the internal bullshit merry go-round of the party, thats what will make the defeat as big as its likely to be. 140 mentioned below, too low though, I'd reckon c170

  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    How fascinating that in the end, Brexit utterly destroyed the Conservative party

    Absolutely. A good lesson which no doubt will be ignored next time round.
    It’s not a new thing. Indeed it’s been around since at least the English Civil War and the regicide

    “Every revolution devours its children”
    Indeed. I was at Naseby last week aamof.
    You missed the fight then?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Taz said:
    Do we know the fieldwork dates?
    24 May to June 1 @Anabobazina
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,077
    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    That is a devastating poll for the SNP.
    That was one of my ? about the MiC one. 35 seats for SNP looks unlikely and just isn’t in tune with the current Scottish trajectory, where bad news seems to be tumbling out for the Nats on an almost daily basis.
    The total lack of money is now a serious problem for the SNP
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    Con predicted to only have 5 seats left in London - Orpington, Bexley, Hornchurch, Ruislip and Sutton!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,602
    edited June 3
    ...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 3

    Is it possible that Nigel could even end up as PM? Surely every single Tory voter will now vote for him (why would they stick with Rishi? What's the point?). Meanwhile, the lower classes now have an anti-Tory party to support that isn't led by tedious, woke, uninspiring Keith Whatsizname, whom they presumably never actually liked. This could be seismic.

    No, that won't happen. Not enough support. But it makes a Lab/LD coalition more likely, which is my preferred option.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,344
    Andy_JS said:

    kjh said:

    Jeez, that MRP has some bloody close seats.

    Seats where the Tories hold on by 1.0% or less include:
    10 where Labour are within 1.0%
    6 where the Lib Dems are within 1.0% (including Didcot and Wantage, the headline being a 33-33 tie between the Tories and Lib Dems with Labour behind on 24, but to 1 decimal place has 33.4-32.6 to the Tories)
    2 with the SNP within 1.0%
    And two that are three-way ultra-marginals (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine with the SNP 0.1% ahead of the Tories and the Lib Dems a further 1.6% behind, and Woking, with the Tories holding on and Labour and the Lib Dems within three percent of them)

    Not sure I buy some of the constituency predictions elsewhere in the dataset (or in the ones mentioned, sometimes: West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, for example - I mean, I'd love it if the Lib Dems were that close, but I can't convince myself it's true)

    I despair of these MRP polls. There is no way that Lab and LDs are tied 3% behind the Tories in Woking. This is a Tory/LD fight. Until a few weeks ago I would have said Tories holding on just, now I think the LDs will win it, but really Lab should be absolutely nowhere.

    The council is 24 LD, 0 Con, 1 Lab, 5 Ind. Labour were defending 1 seat in May and lost it.

    The last GE was 26K Con, 17K LD, 9K Lab

    And the LDs are targeting it. In what world are Lab challengers here?
    Don't forget what happened in Hastings in 1997. Everyone thought the Tories would lose it to the LDs, but Labour came from third place. Same thing happened in Shrewsbury IIRC.
    St. Albans, too.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited June 3
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    This is where bad AI is going, and very soon.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/03/russia-makes-fake-tom-cruise-paris-olympics-violence-video/

    The Microsoft report unmasked “prolific Russian influence actors” who last summer began trashing this summer’s Games in the French capital and Emmanuel Macron, the president, including by posting a bogus documentary featuring the Top Gun: Maverick star.

    To accompany the fake Netflix documentary, which is narrated by an AI-generated Tom Cruise, Russia mocked up reviews of the programme from David Beckham, Jared Leto, Miley Cyrus and Mike Tyson.

    “These ongoing Russian influence operations have two central objectives: to denigrate the reputation of the [International Olympic Committee] on the world stage, and to create the expectation of violence breaking out in Paris during the 2024 Summer Olympic Games,” the report said.

    Do any banks still offer the voice recognition to authorise you when you phone up? If they do, and you have it, disable it now.
    Yes, it’s effing scary if someone wants to target you. It’s gone very quickly from fakes of Obama and Rogan, to pretty much anyone who’s spoken in to a microphone for a few minutes. Anyone with any record of public speaking should be worried at this point, and the rest of us are not far behind.
    They can call you and get you to talk for a bit and that might be enough.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 3

    Con predicted to only have 5 seats left in London - Orpington, Bexley, Hornchurch, Ruislip and Sutton!

    Even Romford? Bad result for the LDs not to get Sutton back.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:
    Is it possible to see how individual constituencies would go in this MRP study?
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPKQXD-XQAAxLYu?format=jpg&name=large

    Map above - useless hex map showing rough estimates below: https://yougov.co.uk/elections/uk/2024
    Thanks Chameleon.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    Heathener said:

    When do postal votes start going out?

    As soon as the ballot papers can be printed after nominations close on the 7th I hope.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    ToryJim said:

    James_M said:

    Did I just hear a career politician lambast career politicians and a self-appointed leader of a political party lambast Sunak for not being elected by MPs?! Couldn't make it up!

    Well quite. Plus this election is about the future of the country not the future of Farage’s ego. Someone in the Tory party should do a clip along the lines of “This election is about you, your hopes, your dreams, whether you get a decent job etc etc don’t let Nigel Farage make this all about him.”
    Well maybe your party shouldn’t have allowed in 2 million migrants in 3 years? Without asking anyone, and against the expressed wishes of every poll on this issue since the year zero? Just a thought
    Reform will end up with no seats, they will have cut the legs off the Tories who will lose more seats to Labour than they were already going to and end up with the prize of a party with a giant majority who are even less keen on smashing immigration and more likely to strengthen UK /EU ties.

    It takes a specially skilled politician to take the country even further from where they and their core voters want it to be. But Nigel will be front and centre and that’s what counts.
    I don’t care. I want the Tories destroyed. It may take two elections but this is the necessary beginning, every journey single step etc etc
    The destruction of the Tories is a fait accompli now that Nigel has flicked his mighty fingers. The question now is where does Sir Keir go from here? Voters who were repelled by his wokery now have a home. We may see them abandon Labour in droves. This is a perilous moment for Sir Keir. Labour might even go for the nuclear option and replace him with a more Blue Labour type. The political universe has been upended. There are no longer any certainties.
    "We may see" doing more heavy lifting here, than a massive Lithuanian at a power-lifting jamboree.
  • GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,242
    Andy_JS said:

    Con predicted to only have 5 seats left in London - Orpington, Bexley, Hornchurch, Ruislip and Sutton!

    Even Romford? Bad result for the LDs not to get Sutton back.
    Romford - Lab 36, Con 34,Ref 17, LD 7, Green 6
    Sutton - Con 30, LD 27, Lab 22, Ref 11, Green 8
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    That is a devastating poll for the SNP.
    That was one of my ? about the MiC one. 35 seats for SNP looks unlikely and just isn’t in tune with the current Scottish trajectory, where bad news seems to be tumbling out for the Nats on an almost daily basis.
    The total lack of money is now a serious problem for the SNP
    Perhaps PB can help out, by purchasing that RV for use as long-awaited PB Bottle Bus & Traveling Dinner Theatre of the Absurd?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,067
    Ghedebrav said:

    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:
    Humiliation for Tice then
    At least he’s no longer being fisted up to the diaphragm to get him reading from Farage’s script.
    It's a whole chain of fists really. Putin > Trump > Farage > Tice
    The Human Centipede sequel nobody is asking for.
    I tried to get the voters attention by blinking in morse code...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Cicero said:

    Heathener said:

    tlg86 said:

    YouGov MRP:

    194 seat majority for Labour.

    Lab - 422
    Con - 140
    Lib Dem - 48
    SNP - 17
    Green - 2

    That is a devastating poll for the SNP.
    That was one of my ? about the MiC one. 35 seats for SNP looks unlikely and just isn’t in tune with the current Scottish trajectory, where bad news seems to be tumbling out for the Nats on an almost daily basis.
    The total lack of money is now a serious problem for the SNP
    Perhaps PB can help out, by purchasing that RV for use as long-awaited PB Bottle Bus & Traveling Dinner Theatre of the Absurd?
    I can remap it for more power. Maybe do DPF and EGR deletes.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    Do we know the fieldwork dates?
    24 May to June 1 @Anabobazina
    Thanks. Quite fresh numbers then.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    Andy_JS said:

    kjh said:

    Jeez, that MRP has some bloody close seats.

    Seats where the Tories hold on by 1.0% or less include:
    10 where Labour are within 1.0%
    6 where the Lib Dems are within 1.0% (including Didcot and Wantage, the headline being a 33-33 tie between the Tories and Lib Dems with Labour behind on 24, but to 1 decimal place has 33.4-32.6 to the Tories)
    2 with the SNP within 1.0%
    And two that are three-way ultra-marginals (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine with the SNP 0.1% ahead of the Tories and the Lib Dems a further 1.6% behind, and Woking, with the Tories holding on and Labour and the Lib Dems within three percent of them)

    Not sure I buy some of the constituency predictions elsewhere in the dataset (or in the ones mentioned, sometimes: West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine, for example - I mean, I'd love it if the Lib Dems were that close, but I can't convince myself it's true)

    I despair of these MRP polls. There is no way that Lab and LDs are tied 3% behind the Tories in Woking. This is a Tory/LD fight. Until a few weeks ago I would have said Tories holding on just, now I think the LDs will win it, but really Lab should be absolutely nowhere.

    The council is 24 LD, 0 Con, 1 Lab, 5 Ind. Labour were defending 1 seat in May and lost it.

    The last GE was 26K Con, 17K LD, 9K Lab

    And the LDs are targeting it. In what world are Lab challengers here?
    Don't forget what happened in Hastings in 1997. Everyone thought the Tories would lose it to the LDs, but Labour came from third place. Same thing happened in Shrewsbury IIRC.
    Yes but in Woking Labour have only one very small concentrated area of support (very established Muslim votes around the oldest mosque in the country) in Woking and the LDs squeezed that out is existence at the last locals due to Gaza.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    edited June 3

    Looking at my area, not much sign of tactical voting being that effective e.g.

    Wokingham - LD 34, Con 34, Lab 17
    Maidenhead - LD 34, Con 31, Lab 19
    Earley and Woodley - Lab 34, Con 30, LD 19
    Windsor - Con 33, Lab 26, LD 22

    So a glimmer of hop for Con, if they can get a modest swingback BUT it can also get worse with improved tactical voting.

    I was initially surprised at the Maidenhead forecast but I know Theresa May was very popular so her going may have made the difference.

    Maidenhead used to be a very tight Con/LD marginal going back a few elections.

    Re Sutton, I don't know anything about it but I would be surprised if the LDs miss this and gain others down the list.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Best British soul music album of all time?

    I can't think of anything that comes close to Linda Lewis's 1972 offering "Lark"

    I love the description of her in a Rolling Stone article from 73:

    "Linda Lewis has this very strange voice. It's like a little girl's: high, with a breathy sort of purity, full of recklessness and wit. But it also has an unexpectedly rough texture which cuts into the little-girl quality so that, while she sounds like no one else, there are moments when she feels like early Stevie Wonder crossed with Michael Jackson — an extraordinary combination"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lark_(album)

    This is the opening track, Spring Song

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6WBcNuvkPI

    I urge you all to enjoy the full album; it's excellent from start to finish

    Essex girl Linda died last Spring. She should be fondly remembered


    Linda was Cat Stevens's long time girlfriend. She features in the video of Remember the Days of the Old School Yard, she looks gorgeous, remarkably the female vocalist on the track is Elkie Brooks, although Linda did her own version.

    Now calm down you Tory snowflakes, Brave Sir Nigel has been defeated seven, yes seven times in his quest for HoC glory. Eighth time unlucky?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited June 3
    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    SKY: LAB maj 194, looks plausible

    LAB 422
    CON 140
    LD 48
    SNP 17
    Looks pretty plausible to me.

    I’ve just broken the 1 image rule. Please @TSE don’t banish me to the outer darkness. It was, after all, to post up the MRP poll finding ;)
    I fessed up as soon as I realised.

    Mea culpa

    xx
    If it's any consolation I think that is me and @Leon as well today.

    I probed the limit and ... unused image quota turns into a pumpkin at midnight.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Looking at the list of 7 parties for the BBC debate, I wonder what it needs to get in.

    An MP in Parliament, perhaps - yet no NI parties.

    What about local parties? Obvs OK since Plaid Cymru are in, I think.

    Yet the Ashfield Independents have nearly 50 Councillors. (Being, according to me, approx 32 District and 10 County.) *

    * I may be slightly over-boosting the District, here.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,067

    Chris said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @christopherhope
    NEW
    A Farage sized stone has just dropped into the becalmed election pond on Monday morning.
    Very senior figures in Reform UK have been blindsided by Nigel Farage's statement at 4pm.
    One friend of Farage tells me it will either be an electoral pact with the Tories (unlikely) or an about-turn on standing at the electionn (more likely).
    The deadline for nominations is imminent.
    Farage himself is not answering his phone. Watch the drama play out at 4pm on
    @GBNEWS
    .

    If it's the latter, I almost feel sorry for Sunak.
    Only a few days ago:


    Isabel Oakeshott
    @IsabelOakeshott
    ·
    May 29
    Richard Tice is Leader of @reformparty_uk and there won’t be any deals with the Tory party. End of.

    https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott
    There’s still time for Farage to fire him as leader and stand himself.
    (narrator: you'll never guess what happens next...)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    That YouGov MRP has the whole of Notts and Derbys turning Red.

    Except Newark.
This discussion has been closed.