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Your reminder the betting markets are frequently wrong – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,090
    EPG said:

    In fairness, it is worth noting that Finnish tax levels as a share of income are higher than the UK by roughly 8p in the pound, according to the OECD. E.g., VAT is 24% instead of 20%. Though I don't think that matters for new gyms etc - I suspect land values and overall residential desirability is the story - the UK will get warmer this century, but Finland will always be dark for months. Ideally one would earn a UK income and live among people who get Finnish incomes, which appears to be the arrangement here.
    I could see us in the UK raise tax to those levels and still not achieve the output.

    It'd go on higher public sector salaries, and non-jobs.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,410
    darkage said:

    Just on this subject. A year ago I moved my wife and son to Finland although I still live in the UK. The determining factor was problems we had with state schooling in the UK. It wasn't actually bad, just not what we want, and this was
    really a problem with the structural context of education in the UK rather than the school itself. I mentioned before that the tax levels are very similar, only slightly higher in Finland.

    My son finished his first school year in Finland. Without exception he has said every day is 'great'. The class size is 24. There are some troubled children but they have one on one help. In the UK he got mediocre reports and was way under the radar of the teaching staff. In Finland we just got back his report and it was exceptional in every category, the only thing that came back as 'good' was Finnish language, which was perhaps unsurprising given that it is his second language.

    On the question of 'quality of life' Finland is so much better than the UK it is almost laughable. We have a brand new gym 5 minutes walk away, 2x supermarkets (one of which is 24 hours), a beach at the end of the road, sea swimming spots within 10 -30 mins cycle ride away (all on purpose built cycle paths), various protected areas of forest with paths through it (in summer), nordic ski trails in winter. A city within 20 mins walk away with a beautiful library, a massive mall, a recently landscaped town square, multiple universities, concert halls, theatres. World class restaurants. There are 2 outdoor lidos in walking distance, one olympic size swimming pool. In the winter you have indoor swimming pools with saunas and steam rooms etc. The roads have no congestion. There is very little crime, children walk around freely by themselves. There are playgrounds every few hundred meters.

    We live in a desirable neighbourhood it is true but you can go and buy a flat at the bottom of the road in a 1990's block for less than 200k Euros. There are also subsidised housing and several thousand public housing flats within 5 minutes walk. Where would it be possible to find anything like this in the UK?

    Long winters, no cricket, not much sport generally, higher taxes, 9% unemployment and Russia next door.

    There are advantages and disadvantages to everywhere.

    Its just a matter of making best use of the advantages while minimising the disadvantages.

    So after having walked around a lake and gone to a restaurant at lunch time I'm now off to see some cricket, walk through a park and then have a swim.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Leon said:

    Some of the most depressed people I've ever met was a bunch of Aussies living in an idyllic beach resort in Queensland, a long way north of Brissie

    Prima facie, it was Edenic. Endless empty beaches, loads of sunshine, high incomes and safe neighbourhoods, lots of fresh seafood, etc etc etc, all the great things about Australia - America without the guns and madness

    They were all bored SHITLESS. And turning into alcoholics thereby. Their kids loved it, of course - spending all day frolicking in the waves

    It was then that I realised that places that are "great for kids" are often "terrible for adults"
    Imagine having a shit c
    darkage said:

    Just on this subject. A year ago I moved my wife and son to Finland although I still live in the UK. The determining factor was problems we had with state schooling in the UK. It wasn't actually bad, just not what we want, and this was
    really a problem with the structural context of education in the UK rather than the school itself. I mentioned before that the tax levels are very similar, only slightly higher in Finland.

    My son finished his first school year in Finland. Without exception he has said every day is 'great'. The class size is 24. There are some troubled children but they have one on one help. In the UK he got mediocre reports and was way under the radar of the teaching staff. In Finland we just got back his report and it was exceptional in every category, the only thing that came back as 'good' was Finnish language, which was perhaps unsurprising given that it is his second language.

    On the question of 'quality of life' Finland is so much better than the UK it is almost laughable. We have a brand new gym 5 minutes walk away, 2x supermarkets (one of which is 24 hours), a beach at the end of the road, sea swimming spots within 10 -30 mins cycle ride away (all on purpose built cycle paths), various protected areas of forest with paths through it (in summer), nordic ski trails in winter. A city within 20 mins walk away with a beautiful library, a massive mall, a recently landscaped town square, multiple universities, concert halls, theatres. World class restaurants. There are 2 outdoor lidos in walking distance, one olympic size swimming pool. In the winter you have indoor swimming pools with saunas and steam rooms etc. The roads have no congestion. There is very little crime, children walk around freely by themselves. There are playgrounds every few hundred meters.

    We live in a desirable neighbourhood it is true but you can go and buy a flat at the bottom of the road in a 1990's block for less than 200k Euros. There are also subsidised housing and several thousand public housing flats within 5 minutes walk. Where would it be possible to find anything like this in the UK?

    I feel like a surprising amount of the developed world is actually like this, just hardly anywhere in the UK which is close killing itself off via its dysfunctional planning and development system.

    Sadly, people will scoff.
    But Helsinki has more daylight hours per year (1838) than London (1633), Edinburgh (1427), or Manchester (1265).

    Related question, why can Finland deliver this and Britain CAN’T? It’s demographics are probably worse abs it’s proximity to Russia implies they can’t avoid spending a decent amount of money on defence.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Oh God, the Pride shit.

    I forgot that now dominates June.

    It's degenerated into corporate "rainbow washing" - where companies are "brave" where they don't need to be, and cowards where gay people are persecuted:



    A lesbian philosopher writes:

    Pride Month began yesterday. I know what you’re thinking: haven’t we already had it? Perhaps you’re thinking of LGBT+ History month in February. Or maybe you’re remembering the Tolkienesque-sounding IDAHOBIT — otherwise known as International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia — a fortnight ago. Later in the year there will be Ace (asexual) Week and Transgender Awareness Week; and don’t forget the Pride and Trans Pride parades scattered throughout the summer. The Catholic church has fewer holy days of obligation than the modern LGBTQI+ movement, and is arguably a lot less guilt-tripping.

    https://archive.ph/2WToo#selection-2789.0-2791.607
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,295

    Long winters, no cricket, not much sport generally, higher taxes, 9% unemployment and Russia next door.

    There are advantages and disadvantages to everywhere.

    Its just a matter of making best use of the advantages while minimising the disadvantages.

    So after having walked around a lake and gone to a restaurant at lunch time I'm now off to see some cricket, walk through a park and then have a swim.
    Yeah, I’ve been to Finland a couple of times and while I can see the logic of everything here the fact is - Finland??? Fuck no
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,090

    Imagine having a shit

    Um. OK.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,045
    darkage said:

    Just on this subject. A year ago I moved my wife and son to Finland although I still live in the UK. The determining factor was problems we had with state schooling in the UK. It wasn't actually bad, just not what we want, and this was
    really a problem with the structural context of education in the UK rather than the school itself. I mentioned before that the tax levels are very similar, only slightly higher in Finland.

    My son finished his first school year in Finland. Without exception he has said every day is 'great'. The class size is 24. There are some troubled children but they have one on one help. In the UK he got mediocre reports and was way under the radar of the teaching staff. In Finland we just got back his report and it was exceptional in every category, the only thing that came back as 'good' was Finnish language, which was perhaps unsurprising given that it is his second language.

    On the question of 'quality of life' Finland is so much better than the UK it is almost laughable. We have a brand new gym 5 minutes walk away, 2x supermarkets (one of which is 24 hours), a beach at the end of the road, sea swimming spots within 10 -30 mins cycle ride away (all on purpose built cycle paths), various protected areas of forest with paths through it (in summer), nordic ski trails in winter. A city within 20 mins walk away with a beautiful library, a massive mall, a recently landscaped town square, multiple universities, concert halls, theatres. World class restaurants. There are 2 outdoor lidos in walking distance, one olympic size swimming pool. In the winter you have indoor swimming pools with saunas and steam rooms etc. The roads have no congestion. There is very little crime, children walk around freely by themselves. There are playgrounds every few hundred meters.

    We live in a desirable neighbourhood it is true but you can go and buy a flat at the bottom of the road in a 1990's block for less than 200k Euros. There are also subsidised housing and several thousand public housing flats within 5 minutes walk. Where would it be possible to find anything like this in the UK?

    My very first ever work business trip was to Helsinki at the age of 22 in December of 2016. I got up, it was dark. I got a taxi to a meeting, it was dark. We broke for lunch, and the sun peeked above the horizon. I went back to the airport (in the early afternoon), it was dark.

    I appreciate that there are other times of year. But it is kinda dark in winter.

    If I was going to be in that part of the world, I think I would follow @Cicero and head to Estonia.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,563
    Leon said:

    It’s not a new thing, the French being downbeat. Don’t they have a word for it - La morosite?

    However I have also noted that the difference in outlook between the French and British is becoming
    more noticeable not less

    The British have a mustn’t grumble and matey cheeriness which the French do not. And a much better sense of humour (tho we probably obsess about that too much). Along with our superior noom it’s one thing that makes Britain more desirable than France in certain ways - despite France being considerably more beautiful, with more space, better weather, lovelier towns

    The difference is also noticeable vis a vis the Italians. From French gloom to Italian vivacity is quite a journey

    Polls also show this. The French are some of the most pissed off people in Europe, despite being some of the luckiest. This presumably explains Le Pen etc
    Would this be an opportune moment to observe that Calais is the French equivalent of Wick?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    I could see us in the UK raise tax to those levels and still not achieve the output.

    It'd go on higher public sector salaries, and non-jobs.
    Correct, because the UK has an astonishing systemic aversion to capital investment. So more money goes on labour, and badly trained labour at that (because training costs money).

    To quote Trump, We need to stop everything until we can figure out what’s going on.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    Leon said:

    Yeah, I’ve been to Finland a couple of times and while I can see the logic of everything here the fact is - Finland??? Fuck no
    Have you been to algeria? Would you do so on Richard Collett's advice? I am tempted

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bf11c198-d774-415c-a411-cf6ca4fb8978?shareToken=3d904bf5e3f75a2a9058369b44e69dd2
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192

    It's degenerated into corporate "rainbow washing" - where companies are "brave" where they don't need to be, and cowards where gay people are persecuted:



    A lesbian philosopher writes:

    Pride Month began yesterday. I know what you’re thinking: haven’t we already had it? Perhaps you’re thinking of LGBT+ History month in February. Or maybe you’re remembering the Tolkienesque-sounding IDAHOBIT — otherwise known as International Day Against Homophobia, Biphobia and Transphobia — a fortnight ago. Later in the year there will be Ace (asexual) Week and Transgender Awareness Week; and don’t forget the Pride and Trans Pride parades scattered throughout the summer. The Catholic church has fewer holy days of obligation than the modern LGBTQI+ movement, and is arguably a lot less guilt-tripping.

    https://archive.ph/2WToo#selection-2789.0-2791.607
    The excommunications are a lot more brutal and permanent too. The Catholic Church might eventually forgive you and restore you to the communion of the saints, the LGBTQ+ cultists never forgive or forget.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Everything crossed.

    Cancer is fucking horrible in every single possible way, and has claimed two members of my family as I'm sure it has for countless others.

    It needs to be destroyed and consigned to the dustbin of history. Let's just die peacefully in our sleep in our 90s, please.
    In many of our lifetimes HIV has gone from a death sentence to an eminently manageable condition - one senior Dr remarked he'd rather have HIV than diabetes!

    Through the worst of it I visited a friend in San Francisco, en-route from Asia to corporate HQ. The obituary page in the weekly Bay Area Reporter went from a page and a half down to a quarter of a page, then a single column.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    NZ has pretty good food, if you like fresh produce.
    But anything “fancy” (say, Stilton) has to be imported.

    Obviously it’s cultural attractions, such as they are, pall against London’s. But I think that’s true of anywhere. I think generally on culture London edges New York and Paris.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,508

    Are any of those companies actually profitable?
    Lime are there or thereabouts - doing $90m EBITDA globally in the last year, and have committed to investing another £25m in growing their London network.

    The others are still reliant on VC funding - I believe HumanForest extended their Series A by £5m to £17m total at the end of last year, and are currently working on funding for an expansion into Europe.

    The scooter specialists are doing less well - Emtransit/dott have pulled out of the latest round of the London scooter trial, but it feels like with 3 (or 4?) remaining providers in the UK that there's still at least one player too many.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Fresh Direct, which is New York’s (inferior) answer to Ocado, texted me yesterday with “LGBTQ+ deals”.

    I remarked to my wife that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on some gay bacon.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400

    Fresh Direct, which is New York’s (inferior) answer to Ocado, texted me yesterday with “LGBTQ+ deals”.

    I remarked to my wife that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on some gay bacon.

    Fruitcake alert!

    Their products rather than you GW :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,485
    Faiza Shaheen is “livid” that a Labour Party canvasser knocked on her door so she’s posted a photo of the canvasser on Twitter.

    https://x.com/faizashaheen/status/1797260051339514009
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Foxy said:

    I see we are in the phase of a General Election where "patriotic" Brits continually run down the country and talk of their immenent departure as the country goes to the dogs.

    I remember it well from 1997.

    1997! I was told to buy a new kitchen and get the deal done before the election, because Labour would bring inflation ... not sure that line would work today.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited June 2024
    Omnium said:

    Fruitcake alert!

    Their products rather than you GW :)
    Who's complaining, if it's cheaper? Though I suppose some gammons might moan about cutprice gammon.

    Edit: I get emails from a (very good) military bookseller/publisher in the States. Sometimes he has special deals to mark Veterans' Day, Easter, Thanksgiving, etc. etc. I'm sure not a Usonian let alone ex-GI but am happy to accept ...
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192

    Faiza Shaheen is “livid” that a Labour Party canvasser knocked on her door so she’s posted a photo of the canvasser on Twitter.

    https://x.com/faizashaheen/status/1797260051339514009

    Yeah that’s definitely letting the mask slip. It’s pretty grim to be essentially inviting a pile on for what is a) a normal part of democracy and b) at most an honest mistake. Also how fragile do you have to be to be so violently triggered by someone ringing your doorbell. It’s not making Fazia look entirely hinged.
  • Would this be an opportune moment to observe that Calais is the French equivalent of Wick?
    There are some excellent bars and restaurants in Calais.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,967

    I think Liz Truss was the only Remain supporter who voted against the Windsor agreement.

    Which IMO showed an unpleasant bitterness towards Sunak.

    Also, IMO, her whining sense of entitlement and refusal to take responsibility for her government contradicts the concept of self-responsibility that Conservative politicians advocate for others.
    Not accepting personally what you advocate for and impose upon others would seem to have been the defining essence of conservatism for some time now?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    ToryJim said:

    Yeah that’s definitely letting the mask slip. It’s pretty grim to be essentially inviting a pile on for what is a) a normal part of democracy and b) at most an honest mistake. Also how fragile do you have to be to be so violently triggered by someone ringing your doorbell. It’s not making Fazia look entirely hinged.
    My thoughts too.

    I do not understand why the NEC have prevented her from re-standing. I find the accusation of anti-semitism maddening as on the evidence in the public sphere it is without foundation. It must be infuriating for Shaheen.

    But she is not coming across well.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    There are some excellent bars and restaurants in Calais.
    And Wick is a very fine place. I'd point out that the account of it here was not, erm, entirely complete (Pulteneytown for a start: same chap as Pulteney Bridge in Bath).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400
    Carnyx said:

    Who's complaining, if it's cheaper? Though I suppose some gammons might moan about cutprice gammon.
    No, no, not cutprice gammon! I've met his brother!

    PS:
    It's so dispiriting that someone chose to flag my post. I presume because they thought it was wrong in some way. Just post your criticism or PM me.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,967
    rcs1000 said:

    My very first ever work business trip was to Helsinki at the age of 22 in December of 2016. I got up, it was dark. I got a taxi to a meeting, it was dark. We broke for lunch, and the sun peeked above the horizon. I went back to the airport (in the early afternoon), it was dark.

    I appreciate that there are other times of year. But it is kinda dark in winter.

    If I was going to be in that part of the world, I think I would follow @Cicero and head to Estonia.
    Finland in the summer, Italy in the spring and autumn, and southern Spain in the winter would suit me just fine.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    rcs1000 said:

    My very first ever work business trip was to Helsinki at the age of 22 in December of 2016. I got up, it was dark. I got a taxi to a meeting, it was dark. We broke for lunch, and the sun peeked above the horizon. I went back to the airport (in the early afternoon), it was dark.

    I appreciate that there are other times of year. But it is kinda dark in winter.

    If I was going to be in that part of the world, I think I would follow @Cicero and head to Estonia.
    Anywhere that far North is going to be pretty horrible in the winter. For me the UK was bad enough, going to work in the dark at 8am and coming home in the dark at 5pm, for what always felt like months on end.

    (You’re a lot younger than I thought you were as well, or did you mean you were 22 in 1996 ;) )
  • LeonLeon Posts: 59,295
    megasaur said:

    Have you been to algeria? Would you do so on Richard Collett's advice? I am tempted

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bf11c198-d774-415c-a411-cf6ca4fb8978?shareToken=3d904bf5e3f75a2a9058369b44e69dd2
    I’ve heard great things about Algeria, especially Algiers, and some of the desertscapes

    I believe they have developed an aversion to Islamism after their hideous civil war
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    Fresh Direct, which is New York’s (inferior) answer to Ocado, texted me yesterday with “LGBTQ+ deals”.

    I remarked to my wife that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on some gay bacon.

    I suppose asking for the peculiarly English delicacy of some cheap faggots would be contraindicated.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Omnium said:

    No, no, not cutprice gammon! I've met his brother!

    PS:
    It's so dispiriting that someone chose to flag my post. I presume because they thought it was wrong in some way. Just post your criticism or PM me.
    Well, I wasn't the one making with the bunting, I promise!

    More generally the transatlantics seem to have a sale at the drop of an excuse - having one for their pet dachshund's birthday wouldn't surprise me at the least. Slightly disconcerting at first but one gets used to it.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,272

    The polls are wrong
    The Tories are going to get a hiding
    They will get a decent no of seats..
    Talk of 66 seats is ludicrous

    Too much froth on here

    Are those alternatives or a prediction?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    edited June 2024
    I love the New York winters.
    The days are longer and it is mostly sunny.
    The odd snow storm is fun.
    Christmas is done very will.

    I don’t miss the drear of London in February.
    I think I had a mild SAD.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    Leon said:

    I’ve heard great things about Algeria, especially Algiers, and some of the desertscapes

    I believe they have developed an aversion to Islamism after their hideous civil war
    Good. I like deserts, I like francophone exclaves, I like superficially a bit edgy but actually safe as houses. Pencilled in for September.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    Faiza Shaheen is “livid” that a Labour Party canvasser knocked on her door so she’s posted a photo of the canvasser on Twitter.

    https://x.com/faizashaheen/status/1797260051339514009

    Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Pagan2 said:

    Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
    To be fair, you are never not livid.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,302

    Faiza Shaheen is “livid” that a Labour Party canvasser knocked on her door so she’s posted a photo of the canvasser on Twitter.

    https://x.com/faizashaheen/status/1797260051339514009

    As angry and disappointed as she no doubt is, depending on local candidates maybe she could still be persuaded Labour are the best choice! I mean, would she prefer Duncan-Smith win?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192

    My thoughts too.

    I do not understand why the NEC have prevented her from re-standing. I find the accusation of anti-semitism maddening as on the evidence in the public sphere it is without foundation. It must be infuriating for Shaheen.

    But she is not coming across well.
    Oh I don’t think the NEC comes out of this mess brilliantly. They are fortunate that Fazia went totally off the reservation over it, but they probably were sufficiently aware of her to know how she would likely take things. Brutal bit of housecleaning, but when Sir Keir is carried into Downing St over the prone corpses of 70% of the parliamentary Tory party nobody will much care about the mouth foaming of one purged candidate.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    Pagan2 said:

    Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
    I hope you got yourself on the concealed part of the voters' register.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477

    This is interesting - Labour can resurrect HS2 to Manchester as the Tories failed to actually kill the bill...

    https://twitter.com/MichaelDnes1/status/1797158751356453256

    They won't. The Bank of England's robbed the money.
    https://order-order.com/2024/05/20/tory-mps-accuse-bank-of-england-of-huge-losses-to-taxpayer/

    When Starmer grows a testicle, perhaps he'll examine that situation. He shows no signs of even being aware of it though, so I won't hold my breath.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,090

    Fresh Direct, which is New York’s (inferior) answer to Ocado, texted me yesterday with “LGBTQ+ deals”.

    I remarked to my wife that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on some gay bacon.

    Lol
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    To be fair, you are never not livid.
    I am often not livid....you don't consider any party political or commercial having info on who lives at an address disconcerting? Where did they get the info for a start?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,090

    I love the New York winters.
    The days are longer and it is mostly sunny.
    The odd snow storm is fun.
    Christmas is done very will.

    I don’t miss the drear of London in February.
    I think I had a mild SAD.

    Haiku? Exploring your potential for Haiku?
  • All of that is pure junk.

    Don't touch it.

    In moderation it is absolutely fine. I am afraid you're wrong on this.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    Carnyx said:

    I hope you got yourself on the concealed part of the voters' register.
    I am not on the voters register at all as no plan to vote
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198

    Fresh Direct, which is New York’s (inferior) answer to Ocado, texted me yesterday with “LGBTQ+ deals”.

    I remarked to my wife that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on some gay bacon.

    Saturday Kitchen was LGBTQIA++ focussed yesterday. Flags and all. Don’t think any gay bacon was on offer.
  • TazTaz Posts: 17,198
    ToryJim said:

    Yeah that’s definitely letting the mask slip. It’s pretty grim to be essentially inviting a pile on for what is a) a normal part of democracy and b) at most an honest mistake. Also how fragile do you have to be to be so violently triggered by someone ringing your doorbell. It’s not making Fazia look entirely hinged.
    She’s been poorly treated but this is shifty especially posting a pic of the canvasser.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,192
    Pagan2 said:

    Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
    All parties will have that ability, it’s basically the electoral roll information in usable format. The only way to avoid it is for your entire household to sacrifice their ability to vote.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,302
    Pagan2 said:

    Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)

    You can opt out of the open register. This is the version of the register that’s available to anyone who wants to buy a copy.

    To opt out, either:

    use the register to vote service (even if you’re already registered)
    contact your local Electoral Registration Office if you live in England, Scotland or Wales
    contact the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland (EONI) if you live in Northern Ireland

    Opting out does not affect your right to vote.


    https://www.gov.uk/electoral-register/opt-out-of-the-open-register

    Full version can still be used for campaigning activities however.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    Farooq said:

    It's electoral roll data, and all political parties use it. If you don't want that, you can take yourself off the electoral register.
    I am not on it
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    ToryJim said:

    All parties will have that ability, it’s basically the electoral roll information in usable format. The only way to avoid it is for your entire household to sacrifice their ability to vote.
    Why would you see it as a sacrifice there is no one worth voting for
  • My thoughts too.

    I do not understand why the NEC have prevented her from re-standing. I find the accusation of anti-semitism maddening as on the evidence in the public sphere it is without foundation. It must be infuriating for Shaheen.

    But she is not coming across well.
    Death by twitter
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,508
    IanB2 said:

    On the original list, just move Thatcher above Sunak and Cammo, and it's there. How Sunak can be considered sincere when he's tried so many positionings since he got the job is a mystery. Like Hague, he's been pushed into insincerity because his party needs a lifeboat strategy for desperate times
    Sunak seems quite naturally insincere to me.

    Think about his lies about Strava and Parkrun, for instance - they're such trivial things to have lied about, and yet he did it anyway for what appears to have been purely narcissistic reasons. That's Johnson-level behaviour.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    ToryJim said:

    Won’t help, political parties get the unredacted version.
    Which is a good reason not to be on it
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Pagan2 said:

    I am not on the voters register at all as no plan to vote
    Of course you don’t.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    Pagan2 said:

    Which is a good reason not to be on it
    Pagan2 said:

    Which is a good reason not to be on it
    I wouldn't for a start trust any political party not to sell the unredacted list
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,840
    ToryJim said:

    Won’t help, political parties get the unredacted version.
    They also combine the electoral roll with further, purchasable, data.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,485
    Taz said:

    She’s been poorly treated but this is shifty especially posting a pic of the canvasser.
    If she’d been quicker she could have recorded a video of her asking the canvasser, “Do you know who I am?!!!”
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    Of course you don’t.
    Last time I bothered was 2010 so thats the last 3 elections I didnt bother with
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,302
    Pagan2 said:

    Why would you see it as a sacrifice there is no one worth voting for
    But next time there might be. Or a great independent at a local election or PCC race.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,967
    ToryJim said:

    Oh I don’t think the NEC comes out of this mess brilliantly. They are fortunate that Fazia went totally off the reservation over it, but they probably were sufficiently aware of her to know how she would likely take things. Brutal bit of housecleaning, but when Sir Keir is carried into Downing St over the prone corpses of 70% of the parliamentary Tory party nobody will much care about the mouth foaming of one purged candidate.
    Streeting's seat is just next door; I would expect he knows her very well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Pagan2 said:

    Hang on the labour app knows who lives at the address....now I am fucking livid. (feel the same about any app giving info on lives in my house political party or commercial)
    You should move to Indiana (if you can cope with the wind and rain cutting through you).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    edited June 2024
    AlsoLei said:

    Sunak seems quite naturally insincere to me.

    Think about his lies about Strava and Parkrun, for instance - they're such trivial things to have lied about, and yet he did it anyway for what appears to have been purely narcissistic reasons. That's Johnson-level behaviour.
    What are the Strava lies?

    Mind you I’ve had him down as a total narcissist since that little social media campaign he started running about himself when he was Chancellor, which included the creation of a logo.

    There’s still this vague sense that he’s technocratically gifted, but all the evidence we have is that he’s smarmy git who’d be better placed on the board of Thames Water.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,813
    edited June 2024
    Taz said:

    She’s been poorly treated but this is shifty especially posting a pic of the canvasser.
    Shaheen was presumably perfectly fine with the canvassing arrangements when trying to get herself elected.

    ie until the day before yesterday.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Foxy said:

    I see we are in the phase of a General Election where "patriotic" Brits continually run down the country and talk of their immenent departure as the country goes to the dogs.

    I remember it well from 1997.

    And the Brexit vote, and SindyRef.....if the result didn't go their way.....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 37,551
    The Lib dems just tried to canvas in my (previously) safe Tory seat.

    Luckily I didn't answer the door
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    kle4 said:

    But next time there might be. Or a great independent at a local election or PCC race.
    In which case I will register......I am not holding out much hope however....I might register to vote for the mlrp but not going to vote ld,con,lab,green,reform etc. When a serious party with a plan emerges I will reconsider
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477

    I just flipped open YouTube Music, for which I pay £10.99 a month, and was faced with reams of "Pride Anthems" which I couldn't get rid of on my homepage but I have no way to divest. Despite me paying for the service! I assume I now have this for an entire month. Very tricky not to accidentally click on it as well, and thus reinforce it's 'popularity'.

    Clearly they feel a need to promote it, and to be seen to promote it, but it's this sort of overreach that winds people up - particularly when the only riposte is "homophobe".
    Is YT music any good? I don't see the point of it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,302
    Pagan2 said:

    I am often not livid....you don't consider any party political or commercial having info on who lives at an address disconcerting? Where did they get the info for a start?
    I hate that commercial interests can get it, I see no reason they should, but political parties? It's part of how our democracy functions. I don't know how long that has been the case, but certainly a long time.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    kinabalu said:

    You should move to Indiana (if you can cope with the wind and rain cutting through you).
    Why indiana?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,171

    If she’d been quicker she could have recorded a video of her asking the canvasser, “Do you know who I am?!!!”
    She could, but anyone who ever asks that question ends up looking like an utter dick.

    On the basis of what's publicly known, she may well have been badly treated.

    Who knows what was going on behind the scenes.

    On the basis of what's happened since, Labour dodged a bullet. (Or perhaps better, they took a bullet somewhere less fatal.)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Fresh Direct, which is New York’s (inferior) answer to Ocado, texted me yesterday with “LGBTQ+ deals”.

    I remarked to my wife that I couldn’t wait to get my hands on some gay bacon.

    Sausage on the other hand.....
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    kle4 said:

    I hate that commercial interests can get it, I see no reason they should, but political parties? It's part of how our democracy functions. I don't know how long that has been the case, but certainly a long time.
    If I had a choice of it going to commercial interests or political parties as an either or I would choose the former as they are more trustworthy
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 75,902
    Pagan2 said:

    Why would you see it as a sacrifice there is no one worth voting for
    For almost everyone, it is.
    (And as others have noted, you don't even have to make your data public.)

    I realise you hold sincere beliefs over this, but
    they are a very long way from commonly held.

    If nothing else, we cherish the right to vote the bastards out.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400
    Farooq said:

    I dunno, maybe you using a homophobic slur in a conversation about pride month is what cause it?
    Anything approaching a slur or insult was very far from my intent. I'm torn two ways here - I want to completely hear what you're saying, but I also want to be very clear that you and it seem at least one other are being wildly oversensitive and causing real harm to the people that you want to defend.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Foxy said:

    I see we are in the phase of a General Election where "patriotic" Brits continually run down the country and talk of their immenent departure as the country goes to the dogs.

    I remember it well from 1997.

    Yes, sounds like if we elect Labour we'll be losing many wealthy aspirational patriots.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    Nigelb said:

    For almost everyone, it is.
    (And as others have noted, you don't even have to make your data public.)

    I realise you hold sincere beliefs over this, but
    they are a very long way from commonly held.

    If nothing else, we cherish the right to vote the bastards out.
    Voting the bastards out just means you get a different set of bastards in.
  • Shaheen only likes Labour when it's run by one of her own. She comes across like a child.

    Labour was absolutely right to get rid.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    Is YT music any good? I don't see the point of it.
    I haven’t seen a Pride message from Spotify, or maybe I missed it.

    Spotify are busy enshittifying themselves, though.

    The algorithms used to be an astonishing way to find new music, but they seem to have decided that payola is more lucrative and are now just trying to foist unwanted content on users. Meanwhile, the UX team have obviously been told to be more like TikTok, which makes search generally less useful.
  • What are the Strava lies?

    Mind you I’ve had him down as a total narcissist since that little social media campaign he started running about himself when he was Chancellor, which included the creation of a logo.

    There’s still this vague sense that he’s technocratically gifted, but all the evidence we have is that he’s smarmy git who’d be better placed on the board of Thames Water.

    He said he uses his Peloton a lot and always before 8AM but somebody found his profile and he's used it like once in the last six months and after 9AM.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,502
    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1797294706772025569

    @DanNeidle
    The best argument against VAT on private schools is that there’s no VAT on elevated house prices near good state schools.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1797294706772025569

    @DanNeidle
    The best argument against VAT on private schools is that there’s no VAT on elevated house prices near good state schools.

    University attendance is weighted toward the higher incomes so we should have vat on uni fees if the reason is that we should stop people buying connections. The further down the deciles you go the less likely kids are to goto uni.....seems the same to me
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1797294706772025569

    @DanNeidle
    The best argument against VAT on private schools is that there’s no VAT on elevated house prices near good state schools.

    Yep. And given how shit an argument that is ...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124

    He said he uses his Peloton a lot and always before 8AM but somebody found his profile and he's used it like once in the last six months and after 9AM.
    It’s possible I suppose that being PM has messed with his scheduled, and the he used to be an early rising Pelotoniste.

    I was more disturbed to discover that he does spin classes to Taylor Swift. He’s just incredibly naff.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,990
    Although people like @Casino_Royale’s household income is objectively high compared to the average, it is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    VAT on private schools is absolutely inconsequential compared to something game changing like a proper wealth tax. Probably based on real property.

    Still voting Labour though because F the Tories.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    Although people like @Casino_Royale’s household income is objectively high compared to the average, it is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

    VAT on private schools is absolutely inconsequential compared to something game changing like a proper wealth tax. Probably based on real property.

    Still voting Labour though because F the Tories.

    Thats ok fuck over those that rent because you know that is going to be tacked onto our rent
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,302

    It’s possible I suppose that being PM has messed with his scheduled, and the he used to be an early rising Pelotoniste.

    I was more disturbed to discover that he does spin classes to Taylor Swift. He’s just incredibly naff.
    Being incredibly naff would make me more inclined to like him. But there are other negatives.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 13,825
    Pagan2 said:

    Which is a good reason not to be on it
    This whole question is tricky, and we currently live in the worst of all possible worlds.

    Option 1 (which was the case till about 2002 IIRC) is that everyone has an ordinary right to know where every registered elector lives unless there are compelling reasons otherwise. Until about 2002 local lists could be found pinned up in the village hall.

    Option 2 is that no-one apart from local officials in democratic services should be allowed to have sight of these lists.

    Option 3 (as now since 2002) is that ordinary people can't see them, but your local fascist/Islamist/communist/loony candidate and their team can. And commercial outfits can buy them. This is not great.

    I am for option 1. Option 2 is at least rational. Option 3 is just awful.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,990
    edited June 2024
    Pagan2 said:

    Thats ok fuck over those that rent because you know that is going to be tacked onto our rent
    Well it would replace council tax and in any event rents are set by the market not purely on costs. I would also favour a massive building campaign.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 44,520
    Pagan2 said:

    Why indiana?
    Pagan2 said:

    Why indiana?
    By repute it has a strong "piss off and leave me alone" ethic wrt government.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,477

    What are the Strava lies?

    Mind you I’ve had him down as a total narcissist since that little social media campaign he started running about himself when he was Chancellor, which included the creation of a logo.

    There’s still this vague sense that he’s technocratically gifted, but all the evidence we have is that he’s smarmy git who’d be better placed on the board of Thames Water.
    I think it's a reference to Peleton where he says he starts his day with a 6am spin class with a soundtrack of Britney Spears. I can't for the life of me think why he thought that was a cool claim, but at any rate it turns out to be a lie because Peloton profiles are public, and he's been on it about 5 times in his life, and never at 6am.
  • tlg86 said:

    https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1797294706772025569

    @DanNeidle
    The best argument against VAT on private schools is that there’s no VAT on elevated house prices near good state schools.

    Oh - on the Telegraph story today. I know the school they cite and their story is full of the purest BS. They were badly hit by a poor Inspection and then lost over £500,000 trying to fight it through the courts. Student numbers were in decline for years and attempts to expand from just being a Prep School back-fired. The people running it were good people and were treated very badly by the Inspectors. However, they announced closure a month ago and did not mention any fears of Lab policies at the time.

    The real reason for closure - West Norfolk has very old demographics and most of the rest are rather economically deprived. There just aren't enough potential students out there for the school to be viable whoever wins the GE. Another private school round here closed two years ago for the same reason and another was only rescued by being bought by new China-based owners.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,840

    Lol
    At least it wasn’t a discount voucher for Surf ‘n TERF.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,400
    Farooq said:

    Ok, but you're whinnying like a horse with a cracked hoof over someone clicking "flag" on your post. Don't worry about it. You said something wrong, you had a conversation about it, it's over. You'll be ok.
    Well as it's clear that it was you that flagged my post and that you seem devoid of sense then I'll not worry. Please do feel free to comment again.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,934
    Pagan2 said:

    I am not on it
    You do appreciate that you can be subject to a civil fine for not being on the register if you have been required to be by a Registration Officer: Representation of the People Act 1983 s9E

    (4)A registration officer who gives a person an invitation under subsection (1) may subsequently require the person to make an application for registration by a specified date.
    (5)A requirement under subsection (4) is of no effect if the person is not entitled to be registered.
    (6)Regulations—
    (a)may make provision about requirements under subsection (4) (including provision for them to be cancelled in specified circumstances);
    (b)may specify steps that a registration officer must take before imposing a requirement.
    (7)A registration officer may impose a civil penalty on a person who fails to comply with a requirement imposed by the officer under subsection (4).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,124
    Rupert Murdoch has just got married again.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,115

    It’s possible I suppose that being PM has messed with his scheduled, and the he used to be an early rising Pelotoniste.

    I was more disturbed to discover that he does spin classes to Taylor Swift. He’s just incredibly naff.
    If I was in the public eye, I'd certainly use an alias account on things like Strava
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,656

    Well it would replace council tax and in any event rents are set by the market not purely on costs. I would also favour a massive building campaign.
    But there are more people looking to rent than places to rent. When interest rates go up my rent goes up. You charge a landlord 2400 a year wealth tax then that will be 200 on my rent. Landlords know damn well these days in most places they can quickly replace tenants because there are more people looking for a place than their are places....last time I changed house it was a bidding war between potential tenants as there were ten of us looking to rent the place
This discussion has been closed.