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Coming to a Lib Dem bar chart near you – politicalbetting.com

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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,032
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    30 point Labour leads back on?
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,608
    Rishi’s latest national service wheeze suggests we’re due some Tory boomer greatest hits in the manifesto. This is so classically Widdecombesque. It’s bloke down the pub stuff. Keep a look out for:

    - abolishing IHT
    - reintroducing corporal punishment in schools
    - a referendum on the death penalty
    - ECHR withdrawal, of course
    - Imperial weights and measures

    I don’t actually think national service is a bad idea in principle. Quite a useful way of building citizenship and social skills. But that’s not why Rishi’s suggesting it. It’s because he’s desperately flailing around for boomer facebook meme talking points.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,666
    biggles said:

    People mocking the idea of national service have no concept of the strategic position we find ourselves in, so they? There’s a reason most of Europe is considering versions of this.

    We’ve got fat and lazy, and lost the courage of our convictions, and the understanding that they sometimes must be fought for.

    Ukraine's minimum age for conscription is 25. Rishi's plan is for 18 year olds. Having our armed forces looking after 18 year olds doing 1 year of service is not going to make them better.
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,591
    edited May 25
    biggles said:

    People mocking the idea of national service have no concept of the strategic position we find ourselves in, so they? There’s a reason most of Europe is considering versions of this.

    We’ve got fat and lazy, and lost the courage of our convictions, and the understanding that they sometimes must be fought for.

    That's probably true, but it's not going to be solved by a spur-of-the-moment, uncosted, desperate announcement during a general election campaign by the party that's 25 points behind and popular mostly with voters that will never have to serve.

    In fact, it'll probably have the opposite effect, making the idea toxic for a decade at least.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly
    Give me a choice to play Russian Roullette or Backgammon and I might concede Backgammon is not so bad, but I'd still resent being made to choose.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,608
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly
    Shit.

    No? You don’t think this is…this is their solution to social care?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    Worse than DEMENTIA Tax???

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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,007

    Anyone know when the manifestos will be published?

    Run out of toilet paper, have we? :lol:
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    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    This is a Winchester thing. You had the choice there on Wednesday afternoon of cadet corps (playing soldiers) or alternative service activities (mowing old ladies' lawns). Again it's the head boy thing, affirming the value of this stuff got him praise and promotion from the grown ups. I can't remember a sillier policy more ineptly introduced.
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,669
    Ratters said:

    Can we also discuss the discrepancy between:

    - 12 month placement in armed forces
    - 12 weekends of community service

    Why would anyone choose the former unless they want to be in the army? And what stops people from sacking off the latter if they don't feel like it or have an actual weekend job alongside university education, or a full time job that includes weekends, like many people do in the real world?

    Possibly the most stupid policy I've heard in this electoral cycle so far.

    Great point. Young people in jobs like retail must work weekends, even if they work full-time rather than just with college or uni. The volunteering option won't be open to them.

    It's only the rich who will be able to afford to avoid the army and enjoy an education at the same time.
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    RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,197
    One big consequence of Rishi's national service declaration might be it helps Labour squeeze voters who were considering voting for the Greens. If I was Thangam Debbonaire I'd be pretty pleased by this announcement.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,595
    biggles said:

    People mocking the idea of national service have no concept of the strategic position we find ourselves in, so they? There’s a reason most of Europe is considering versions of this.

    We’ve got fat and lazy, and lost the courage of our convictions, and the understanding that they sometimes must be fought for.

    Exactly, in a lot of countries in the EU they are looking at conscription.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,608

    biggles said:

    People mocking the idea of national service have no concept of the strategic position we find ourselves in, so they? There’s a reason most of Europe is considering versions of this.

    We’ve got fat and lazy, and lost the courage of our convictions, and the understanding that they sometimes must be fought for.

    Ukraine's minimum age for conscription is 25. Rishi's plan is for 18 year olds. Having our armed forces looking after 18 year olds doing 1 year of service is not going to make them better.
    If he was clever he’d suggest extending it to 16 year olds. If they’re old enough to vote…
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,262

    Terrible news RIP the pilot

    A pilot has died after a Spitfire crashed in a field close to an RAF station in Lincolnshire, officials said.

    Emergency services were called to the field off Langrick Road, Coningsby shortly before 13:20 BST on Saturday.

    The World War Two-era plane belonged to the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight based at RAF Coningsby, the RAF said

    Just heard that in the News. Anyone flying an 80 year old plane is brave. Not as brave as rge original pilots, though.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,764
    edited May 25
    Tory grid for today....talk about how people on £100k a year pay too much tax in the morning, in the evening introduction compulsory national service.

    I am thinking back to The Thick of It, with the Tory boy trying to impress the Steve Hilton on the whiteboard with this great policy ideas.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346
    @jamesjohnson252

    Hold the phone on the snarky tweets: the Conservatives’ new policy is designed to be a landgrab for Reform voters and the polling suggests it strongly appeals to them

    @alexmassie

    But the problem with trying to grab votes from a party most voters think is bananas is that you associate yourself with the bananas party and the voters who don’t like the bananas party notice this.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,599

    viewcode said:

    Redditch said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Man of the People Richi, chatting to his mates in the local spoons this morning before (checks notes) climbing into his millionaire mate's helicopter for a lift back to London...

    Yep, nothing to see here. Move on, lads.

    I've been plenty brutal on Rishi, yet you seem to assume any dissenting voices on these issues must be trying to bolster him somehow. That is plainly not the case.

    Your premise seems to be that a politician doing anything that is not 'man of the people' like will be toxic with the public.

    Now, Rishi is very unpopular so people will judge him harshly for a lot of things they might not with someone more popular. But I think you do the public a disservice on this one. He also has bodyguards and people drive him about, is that also toxic with the public as it is not very man of the people?
    He should have got the national express coach back to London. Now thats man of the people.
    There's a semi-interesting quasi-connection between Rishi Sunak's campaign launch, and my own experience with National Express.

    Because the last time I rode on a NE coach, from Golders Green bus terminal to STN during a rain storm, my luggage was thoughtfully place underneath a leak and was totally soaked when I arrived at the airport.
    On the National Express, there's a jolly hostess selling crisps and tea. She'll provide you with drinks and theatrical winks for a sky-high fee
    But it's hard to survive, when your arse is the size, of a small countr-eeee
    Get by I think is it not?
    Damn yes you are right! It appears to be a genuine mondegreen
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,236
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    National Service inclusive of non military options is one of those things that can be made to sound ok - give opportunities, provide direction etc - but dictating what people should be doing seems likely to be hugely unpopular.

    It does highlight that we have a big problem down the road with lack of volunteers, but conscripting people to do the things volunteers do does not strike me as a workable solution.

    It's obviously a stupid idea. The state has no business telling adults what to do with their time.
    If we need volunteers then conscript older people into this thing, they have the time for it.
    "conscript volunteers" :lol:
    If you're very unlucky, you might get conscripted to volunteer as a Conservative election candidate.

    But, leaving aside the F. F. S. ness of the proposal, it implies that someone looked at the 2017 campaign and thought "chucking a new policy out with zero consulation is a brilliant plan".

    Has he sold Conservative MPs on the spreads?
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,907
    Scott_xP said:

    @PickardJE

    Yes Minister on bringing back national service

    https://x.com/PickardJE/status/1794479406766784548

    The first reply to that is great

    "Levido: Well, we do have a small chance that quite a lot of young people might forsake Labour for the Greens. We just need to be careful not to give them a reason to go back to Starmer.
    Sunak: ….
    "
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    I'm assuming there'd be exemptions for well to do folks. Can't be having little Lord Fontleroy mucking about with spods from the local housing estate in the army or ferrying meals about to elderly people in the community.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,944
    Scott_xP said:

    @drjennings

    Compulsory national service is not popular with any age group apart from the over-65s. Is it possible for the Conservative vote with under 25s to go any lower?

    The last people to experience compulsory National Service in the UK are now 85, so most of those over-65s with whome this is allegedly popular avoided it themselves.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346

    Has he sold Conservative MPs on the spreads?

    I have
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    glwglw Posts: 9,595
    Fishing said:

    In fact, it'll probably have the opposite effect, making the idea toxic for a decade at least.

    We haven't got a decade. If people haven't already grasped that we are going to need a much larger armed forces and to spend a lot more on defence they must be asleep.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,028
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    Heathener said:


    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    Our latest polling with
    @ObserverUK


    Labour starts the #GE2024 campaign with 14-point lead:
    · Labour 41% (-2)
    · Conservatives 27% (+2)
    · Lib Dems 10% (+1)
    · SNP 2% (-1)
    · Greens 7% (n/c)
    · Reform 10% (n/c)

    Fieldwork: 23-24 May.
    Changes from 15-17 May.

    Todays Opinium

    LABOUR maj 186

    National Prediction: Labour majority 186
    It’s Labour not SKS so I’ve corrected it for you. We vote for constituency MPs. It’s not a Presidency.

    Almost the same as my prediction the other day.

    Lab 42.5%
    Con 28.5%
    LibDem 9%

    Seats
    Lab 421
    Con 160
    LibDem 30
    SNP 14

    Lab Majority 185
    That’s about what I’m expecting too seats wise.
    No chance imo

    Lab have a 50% chance of getting 326 imo

    Lab 38
    Con 33
    Green 8
    SKS fans would have a lot to explain with that...
    Well if Opinium is accurate and Lab are only on 41 I think Lab will be lucky to get 38 by Polling day

    It is more of a stretch for Con to get to 33 but as propoganda keeps on that a vote for Reform lets Lab in i can see their vote collapsing to say 5%

    I am on NOM at 6/1 and Lab to get less than the 12.83m votes it got in 2017 at an incredibly generous 8/1
    Whose that last bet with? 8/1 looks good for that, particularly in light of all the voter suppression.
    ...and the 3,000,000 ex-pat Tory voters.

    Although if they can't organise an election announcement, I am not entirely convinced they can shoehorn 3,000,000 into 100 marginal seats.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,254
    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    No it isn't. It could well be quite popular with about 40% of voters.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,418
    This National Service policy is a complete lunatic proposal and I say this as CON

    It's not 1 April is it?

    I think CON could be on for 0 seats now total meltdown

    👿👿👿👿👿
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    I would say that is a VERY clever response from Labour.

    https://x.com/kateferguson4/status/1794480796125774328

    Keir Starmer has been wrapping himself in the Union Jack flag.

    But Labour come out against Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory National Service in the military or for charity 🇬🇧

    They offered Keir a trap, he refused to walk into it.
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,262
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hope this is a spoof

    @kateferguson4

    BREAKING!

    Rishi Sunak will bring in compulsory national service for all 18 years olds if the Tories win the election

    BBC News has it. Confirmation that the Tories are looking to the voters missing in action currently supporting Reform and DK.
    So they have given up all chance of winning the young vote, and are concentrating on the over 80s.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286
    kle4 said:

    I'm assuming there'd be exemptions for well to do folks. Can't be having little Lord Fontleroy mucking about with spods from the local housing estate in the army or ferrying meals about to elderly people in the community.

    Volunteering to help with the local shoot.
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    Why is it only 18 year olds?
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,669
    Ratters said:

    RobD said:

    Ratters said:

    Can we also discuss the discrepancy between:

    - 12 month placement in armed forces
    - 12 weekends of community service

    Why would anyone choose the former unless they want to be in the army? And what stops people from sacking off the latter if they don't feel like it or have an actual weekend job alongside university education, or a full time job that includes weekends, like many people do in the real world?

    Possibly the most stupid policy I've heard in this electoral cycle so far.

    You get paid for one and not the other?
    If you want to get paid to work for the armed forces there is an existing job opportunity called joining the armed forces. They even show adverts on TV for it.

    If not, why the fuck would you waste a year of your youth and alternative career progression being an underpaid intern within the army, when the alternative is giving up some part of one weekend a month?

    I'd support the policy so long as retirees also need to volunteer alongside 18 year olds every day of the week they are not working. For the country, you understand.
    Most retirees can afford to volunteer. For many young people, this means forgoing a weekend job. The kind of job that means that they can get through uni/college.

    I worked two days a week all the way through my degree. Only way I could afford it.

    (The beer that is).
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,154
    Ratters said:

    Can we also discuss the discrepancy between:

    - 12 month placement in armed forces
    - 12 weekends of community service

    Why would anyone choose the former unless they want to be in the army? And what stops people from sacking off the latter if they don't feel like it or have an actual weekend job alongside university education, or a full time job that includes weekends, like many people do in the real world?

    Possibly the most stupid policy I've heard in this electoral cycle so far.

    Almost everyone in that age group will have a weekend job at the very least. Even Rishi did - we keep being told about him working as a waiter!

    Is the plan to pay people for this community service?

    There are about 720,000 18 year olds in the UK, and we're told that 30,000 of them will be in full time military roles. That leaves 690,000 who'll be expected to do 12 weekends. So, about £4bn in wages alone?

    And who's going to replace the lost labour? That's about 200,000 extra immigrants needed to compensate, isn't it?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    glw said:

    Fishing said:

    In fact, it'll probably have the opposite effect, making the idea toxic for a decade at least.

    We haven't got a decade. If people haven't already grasped that we are going to need a much larger armed forces and to spend a lot more on defence they must be asleep.
    People might have grasped that idea.

    What they won't have contemplated is actually doing anything even mildly unpalatable to address it.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,326
    People about to start FE or uni don't necessarily have free time. Most 68 year olds do.
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    BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 2,190
    edited May 25
    Of course those that wouldn't have to do national service, nor have ever done it, will support this inane idea.

    "Value for money"?
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,262
    Foxy said:

    megasaur said:

    MattW said:

    Wine Question:

    Is Redbeard Bacchus 2020 any good? Keep or Drink?

    (It was a free bonus.)

    Wine which improves with keeping is way above almost anyone's pay grade and is not called names like Redbeard. Otoh genuinely undrinkable wine is almost unheard of these days. Drink it is my advice.
    I don't think that entirely true. Even average Rhone wines benefit from a year or two in the bottle to soften the tannins.

    That said, a free bonus bottle is unlikely to benefit greatly, so drink up. Or save it for cooking.
    Or drink it while you’re cooking.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346
    @LOS_Fisher
    Rishi Sunak's pledge to introduce national service is eye-catching, but I suspect the option of a 12-month armed forces placement won't be embraced by large quarters of the UK military/MoD.

    Last summer I asked Andrew Murrison, minister for defence people, his views on obligatory military service or widening voluntary schemes like the gap year commission.

    He made the important point: 'There's a cost – and that is training people up, looking after them, managing them, and then they disappear as they're becoming vaguely useful.'
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    EPG said:

    People about to start FE or uni don't necessarily have free time. Most 68 year olds do.

    Yeah, let's introduce it for the elderly.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286

    James Johnson
    @jamesjohnson252
    Hold the phone on the snarky tweets: the Conservatives’ new policy is designed to be a landgrab for Reform voters and the polling suggests it strongly appeals to them

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1794478714895688057
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    No it isn't. It could well be quite popular with about 40% of voters.
    Why 40%?

    I'd call it a very niche idea, and springing it on people like this a poor way to sell even a well thought out proposal, meaning even some people who might like idea in principle won't be on board.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,305
    Labour will play everything safe, I think.

    But, who knows? There was noth

    biggles said:

    People mocking the idea of national service have no concept of the strategic position we find ourselves in, so they? There’s a reason most of Europe is considering versions of this.

    We’ve got fat and lazy, and lost the courage of our convictions, and the understanding that they sometimes must be fought for.

    Ukraine's minimum age for conscription is 25. Rishi's plan is for 18 year olds. Having our armed forces looking after 18 year olds doing 1 year of service is not going to make them better.
    That’s has much to do with Ukraine’s acute demographic problems.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,944

    RobD said:

    The £2.5 billion National Service scheme will see school leavers apply for a year-long placement in the Armed Forces or the UK’s cyber defences where they will gain experience in logistics, cyber security, procurement and civil response operations such as flood defences.

    The placements, which are open to 30,000 youngsters, will involve residential stays at army barracks or other military facilities around the country.

    The volunteering route will see 18-year-olds spend one weekend each month working in the fire services, police, the NHS as well as local charities tackling loneliness and supporting older, isolated people.

    Telegraph

    The details here don't match the tweet, which said it would be compulsory.
    Under the mandatory scheme, school leavers will have to either enrol on a 12-month military placement or spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/25/rishi-sunak-bring-back-national-service-policy/
    That's a new definition of the word 'volunteering'.
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    megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586

    Sunak has a bit of an authoritarian streak, see smoking ban and now compulsory national service.

    Again, head boy syndrome. Schools are authoritarian, pupils are victims, prefects are trusties/kapos and will get to continue to be head boy if they push the grown ups agenda obsequiously enough.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    No it isn't. It could well be quite popular with about 40% of voters.
    Why 40%?

    I'd call it a very niche idea, and springing it on people like this a poor way to sell even a well thought out proposal, meaning even some people who might like idea in principle won't be on board.
    Popular with maybe 10% of voters. It is Core Vote time.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Scott_xP said:

    @LOS_Fisher
    Rishi Sunak's pledge to introduce national service is eye-catching, but I suspect the option of a 12-month armed forces placement won't be embraced by large quarters of the UK military/MoD.

    Last summer I asked Andrew Murrison, minister for defence people, his views on obligatory military service or widening voluntary schemes like the gap year commission.

    He made the important point: 'There's a cost – and that is training people up, looking after them, managing them, and then they disappear as they're becoming vaguely useful.'

    He's my MP, and he's a loyalist, so I expect him to go silent on the matter.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,517
    EPG said:

    People about to start FE or uni don't necessarily have free time. Most 68 year olds do.

    'You can drive a Q7, you can drive a tank'
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,032
    edited May 25
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly

    Yougov found 34% of voters back a year's compulsory military or community service which is actually more than the current Tory poll rating. Indeed 50% of 2019 Conservative voters back such compulsory national service to 44% opposed, 54% of Leave voters back it too

    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_National_service.pdf
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286

    EPG said:

    People about to start FE or uni don't necessarily have free time. Most 68 year olds do.

    Yeah, let's introduce it for the elderly.
    Dad's Army.
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    BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 2,190
    edited May 25


    James Johnson
    @jamesjohnson252
    Hold the phone on the snarky tweets: the Conservatives’ new policy is designed to be a landgrab for Reform voters and the polling suggests it strongly appeals to them

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1794478714895688057

    Of course they will support it, they won't have to do it.

    Get 16 and 17 year olds to vote, as they will actually have to do it.
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    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,484
    He’s already forcing them to do maths till they’re 18, and now proposing they got to spend 12 weekends a year wiping the shitty arses of boomers at the end of it.

    Death penalty is coming, I’m telling you.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,254
    How about this as a policy proposal: free university education for those who do national service first.
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,669
    Lockdown was my national service.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,236


    James Johnson
    @jamesjohnson252
    Hold the phone on the snarky tweets: the Conservatives’ new policy is designed to be a landgrab for Reform voters and the polling suggests it strongly appeals to them

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1794478714895688057

    That's obviously the theory, but it ignores any losses on the other side.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,885
    Ratters said:

    Can we also discuss the discrepancy between:

    - 12 month placement in armed forces
    - 12 weekends of community service

    Why would anyone choose the former unless they want to be in the army? And what stops people from sacking off the latter if they don't feel like it or have an actual weekend job alongside university education, or a full time job that includes weekends, like many people do in the real world?

    Possibly the most stupid policy I've heard in this electoral cycle so far.

    How on earth do you enforce it? Someone volunteering at a charity shop fails to turn up - do they call the police? I think a push for a citizenship scheme where you get rewarded would be far better than this.
    .
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    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,669
    edited May 25

    EPG said:

    People about to start FE or uni don't necessarily have free time. Most 68 year olds do.

    'You can drive a Q7, you can drive a tank'
    hahahaha. excellent
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286

    Why is it only 18 year olds?

    He's raising the voting age to 19?
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,300
    Scott_xP said:

    @PickardJE

    Yes Minister on bringing back national service

    https://x.com/PickardJE/status/1794479406766784548

    I think this policy is less Yes Minister and more Peter Cook in Whoops Apocalypse.

    Sunak has gone off the deep end. Certifiable. He will be ranting about pixies soon enough.

    https://youtu.be/M4L-fKOZ9Zs?feature=shared&t=49
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    I can guarantee, death penalty and leaving the ECHR will be next.

    What a depressing state of affairs.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,032
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly
    Shit.

    No? You don’t think this is…this is their solution to social care?
    Maybe that IHT cut is coming after all?
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,885
    Eabhal said:

    Lockdown was my national service.

    Your grateful country thanks you. You were a star.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346
    @mattholehouse
    The imv very signif bit: its funded by closing the Shared Prosperity Fund, which was the UK replacement for EU structural funds, in 2028 after only six years. UKSPF is a "central pillar" of "levelling up" (source: HMG).

    UKSPF was also an element of the 2019 manifesto.. and retaining like-for-like EU funding was a key Vote Leave commitment.

    Observation: option to shutter the UKSPF in favour of national service is an interesting glimpse into the party's thinking as to whether its core vote (and with it the 2019 coalition) is motivated by cultural or economic concerns.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly

    Yougov found 34% of voters back a year's compulsory military or community service which is actually more than the current Tory poll rating. Indeed 50% of 2019 Conservative voters back such compulsory national service to 44% opposed, 54% of Leave voters back it too

    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_National_service.pdf
    People support or don't support policies based in part on who proposed them. So it is pretty safe to assume it will be less than 34% who say they support this when polled about it. And even if they do, it doesn't follow they will support this precise form of compulsory service.

    Despite wanting the Tories out I don't want them annilhilated, this is a depressing move in that respect.

    I get wanting to claw back from Reform, but this was the solution?!
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    It's very nice of Rishi to support votes for 16 and 17 year olds, after all, they will be the people doing the National Service.

    Right Rishi? Rishi?
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,032
    edited May 25

    RobD said:

    The £2.5 billion National Service scheme will see school leavers apply for a year-long placement in the Armed Forces or the UK’s cyber defences where they will gain experience in logistics, cyber security, procurement and civil response operations such as flood defences.

    The placements, which are open to 30,000 youngsters, will involve residential stays at army barracks or other military facilities around the country.

    The volunteering route will see 18-year-olds spend one weekend each month working in the fire services, police, the NHS as well as local charities tackling loneliness and supporting older, isolated people.

    Telegraph

    The details here don't match the tweet, which said it would be compulsory.
    Under the mandatory scheme, school leavers will have to either enrol on a 12-month military placement or spend one weekend each month volunteering in their community.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/25/rishi-sunak-bring-back-national-service-policy/
    That's a new definition of the word 'volunteering'.
    Of course you could also steal some bottles of wine from your local supermarket and also be 'volunteered' for that service in your community by your local Magistrates Court if you are over school leaving age
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,608
    Fair point:

    Young people have already done their share of national service — it was called ‘lockdown’.

    https://x.com/si_rubinstein/status/1794477700943331531?s=46
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346
    @robertshrimsley

    Tory manifesto session - bring back national service, yes and ho

    https://x.com/robertshrimsley/status/1794482982624841785
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,569
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I kind of miss Tim and Plato. They were a bit like petrol and water but their battles were kind of fun...

    Did someone say Plato had died? I mean the poster obviously not the other one
    Yes. She wasn't that old either - mid fifties?

    Though on a point of pedantry I think 'the other one' died quite some time ago too.
    Summat like that.
    She was born the same month as me.
    I'm 57 now.
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    Doesn't seem very "conservative", forcing people to do something.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,305
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly

    Yougov found 34% of voters back a year's compulsory military or community service which is actually more than the current Tory poll rating. Indeed 50% of 2019 Conservative voters back such compulsory national service to 44% opposed, 54% of Leave voters back it too

    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_National_service.pdf
    It’s a strategy based upon knowing they’ll lose, but aiming to get to 30% or so.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321

    Ratters said:

    Can we also discuss the discrepancy between:

    - 12 month placement in armed forces
    - 12 weekends of community service

    Why would anyone choose the former unless they want to be in the army? And what stops people from sacking off the latter if they don't feel like it or have an actual weekend job alongside university education, or a full time job that includes weekends, like many people do in the real world?

    Possibly the most stupid policy I've heard in this electoral cycle so far.

    How on earth do you enforce it? Someone volunteering at a charity shop fails to turn up - do they call the police? I think a push for a citizenship scheme where you get rewarded would be far better than this.
    .
    That's why the idea is for a review, it'd be something coming down the road years hence presumably to work out any kinks.

    In reality people will respond to it as if 18 year olds will be conscripted on 5 July - turnout among the cohort could be higher than usual.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,254
    edited May 25


    James Johnson
    @jamesjohnson252
    Hold the phone on the snarky tweets: the Conservatives’ new policy is designed to be a landgrab for Reform voters and the polling suggests it strongly appeals to them

    https://x.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1794478714895688057

    Makes sense, because the latest polls are putting Con+Reform on 36%, which is slightly higher than it's been previously. And 36% is roughly what Cameron got in 2010 and 2015.
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    Big_IanBig_Ian Posts: 56
    Would love to hear what his honourable friends think of Rishi's latest bright idea.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321

    Doesn't seem very "conservative", forcing people to do something.

    Seems quite conservative to me. It doesn't seem very liberal however.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 32,944
    edited May 25
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    There is also the option of community service, rather like my public school had the option of CCF in the army, navy or RAF or conservation or visiting the elderly

    Yougov found 34% of voters back a year's compulsory military or community service which is actually more than the current Tory poll rating. Indeed 50% of 2019 Conservative voters back such compulsory national service to 44% opposed, 54% of Leave voters back it too

    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_National_service.pdf
    And 58% oppose it, which is a lot more than the current Labour poll rating.
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    The young have done it, we shut our lives down for two years to protect the elderly.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Andy_JS said:

    How about this as a policy proposal: free university education for those who do national service first.

    A more attractive prospect.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,764
    edited May 25
    Andy_JS said:

    How about this as a policy proposal: free university education for those who do national service first.

    There is opportunity to do some radical things with university education e.g. work for x years in NHS, every year we pay of y of your student loan...do STEM and stay in the UK, same. Basically work it so that if you stay they are paying off the fees over 5-10 years. You still have to pay off loan for living costs, but basically free fees.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286
    Thousands of 18 year olds are now on the Register to Vote website.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,321
    Calling it - Tories sub 20 again in a poll soon.

    Sub 150 MPs nailed on.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286
    Oh FFS.


    Jim Pickard 🐋
    @PickardJE
    turns out that the National Citizen Service (David Cameron’s pet project) had its funding slashed by two-thirds in a 2022 review of government youth funding - when Rishi Sunak was chancellor

    https://x.com/PickardJE/status/1794477755788153191
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,262
    Andy_JS said:

    Tom Watson
    @tom_watson
    ·
    34m
    I’m told the Rishi Sunak is to call for national service. I wonder what young people and their parents will think of that?

    https://x.com/tom_watson/status/1794467142966161772

    Compulsory national service? Interesting if so.
    Kill the youngsters off in Ukraine and the Middle East! They don’t vote for us so their lives are worthless!
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346
    @JenWilliams_FT
    Love the way this manages to junk the two main messages of the last election - Brexit dividend and levelling up - in one go
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    Andy_JS said:

    How about this as a policy proposal: free university education for those who do national service first.

    There is opportunity to do some radical things with university education e.g. work for x years in NHS, every year we pay of y of your student loan...do STEM and stay in the UK, same. Basically work it so that if you stay they are paying off the fees over 5-10 years. You still have to pay off loan for living costs, but basically free fees.
    Bridget Phillipson basically implied that was what Labour would do on Question Time a few days ago.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286

    Colin Murray
    @CRGMurray
    ·
    11m
    Theresa May was a genius campaigner next to this. Someone ask Sunak how this will apply in NI...
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,666
    glw said:

    Fishing said:

    In fact, it'll probably have the opposite effect, making the idea toxic for a decade at least.

    We haven't got a decade. If people haven't already grasped that we are going to need a much larger armed forces and to spend a lot more on defence they must be asleep.
    Yes, but you need to spend that money on a well-resourced, professional army, not a hail Mary pass to get Reform UK voters back.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,885

    The young have done it, we shut our lives down for two years to protect the elderly.

    That's not really true. It wasn't two years, and it wasn't just to protect the elderly. Many younger people died from COVID and many more could have done without the first lockdown. A collapse to healthcare was definitely on the cards in march 2020. There is an awful lot of revisionism around now. A poster with a similar name to you spent ages posting 'lockdown now!'
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,907

    Doesn't seem very "conservative", forcing people to do something.

    No, but it wouldn't be the first time

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workfare_in_the_United_Kingdom
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 77,764
    edited May 25

    Andy_JS said:

    How about this as a policy proposal: free university education for those who do national service first.

    There is opportunity to do some radical things with university education e.g. work for x years in NHS, every year we pay of y of your student loan...do STEM and stay in the UK, same. Basically work it so that if you stay they are paying off the fees over 5-10 years. You still have to pay off loan for living costs, but basically free fees.
    Bridget Phillipson basically implied that was what Labour would do on Question Time a few days ago.
    I never understood when they first changed the student fees why they didn't have such a scheme for doctors, dentists, etc. Its a no brainer, you then give a massive nudge for a dentist not to bugger off into private sector after a couple of years in practice.

    I bet it wouldn't even cost that much when you look at the fact these loans never get fully repaid anyway and the fact you paid £100k+ to train a dentist.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,569
    Are the Tories aware of just how many 18 year olds are currently working as carers and teaching assistants to prop up our decaying public sector?
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    BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 2,190
    edited May 25

    The young have done it, we shut our lives down for two years to protect the elderly.

    That's not really true. It wasn't two years, and it wasn't just to protect the elderly. Many younger people died from COVID and many more could have done without the first lockdown. A collapse to healthcare was definitely on the cards in march 2020. There is an awful lot of revisionism around now. A poster with a similar name to you spent ages posting 'lockdown now!'
    I am shocked to see you supporting this stupid idea. A policy which you'll never have to do and the people who have to do it in years to come, won't be able to vote for it.

    We absolutely did lock down to protect the elderly and society - we did our bit. In return we've been shafted. So Rishi can sod off with his stupid ideas, I am genuinely really angry about this idea.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 34,346
    @PickardJE
    - Rishi Sunak is bound to be asked if tonight’s announcement means he is giving up on levelling-up Britain’s left-behind areas

    - given the national service policy would be funded mostly (though not entirely) from the UK Shared Prosperity Fund, which was previously earmarked for levelling-up
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,262

    I see the Front page of the Times has an item about a private school in Hampshire closing because of "Labour's VAT raid" (although it mentions that The school has suffered from dwindling pupil numbers in recent years).

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOc-Wd5WoAA7D7-?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

    Casino’s childrens’ school?
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,885
    edited May 25

    The young have done it, we shut our lives down for two years to protect the elderly.

    That's not really true. It wasn't two years, and it wasn't just to protect the elderly. Many younger people died from COVID and many more could have done without the first lockdown. A collapse to healthcare was definitely on the cards in march 2020. There is an awful lot of revisionism around now. A poster with a similar name to you spent ages posting 'lockdown now!'
    I am shocked to see you supporting this stupid idea. A policy which you'll never have to do and the people who have to do it in years to come, won't be able to vote for it.

    We absolutely did lock down to protect the elderly and society - we did our bit. In return we've been shafted. So Rishi can sod off with his stupid ideas, I am genuinely really angry about this idea.
    Huh? I'm not supporting the idea? I'm posting about your comments on lockdown. I see you've added in society to your comment.
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    Andy_JS said:

    How about this as a policy proposal: free university education for those who do national service first.

    There is opportunity to do some radical things with university education e.g. work for x years in NHS, every year we pay of y of your student loan...do STEM and stay in the UK, same. Basically work it so that if you stay they are paying off the fees over 5-10 years. You still have to pay off loan for living costs, but basically free fees.
    Bridget Phillipson basically implied that was what Labour would do on Question Time a few days ago.
    I never understood when they first changed the student fees why they didn't have such a scheme for doctors, dentists, etc. Its a no brainer, you then give a massive nudge for a dentist not to bugger off into private sector after a couple of years in practice.

    I bet it wouldn't even cost that much when you look at the fact these loans never get fully repaid anyway and the fact you paid £100k+ to train a dentist.
    It was genuinely one of the only good UKIP policies there ever was.
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    FarooqFarooq Posts: 11,851


    Colin Murray
    @CRGMurray
    ·
    11m
    Theresa May was a genius campaigner next to this. Someone ask Sunak how this will apply in NI...

    Oh fecking jaysus I didn't even consider that angle.
    This maniac party need to be out of power forever
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,028
    Andy_JS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @DPJHodges

    Rishi Sunak’s plan for compulsory national service is the most insane policy proposal ever launched in an election campaign by a major political party.

    No it isn't. It could well be quite popular with about 40% of voters.
    Where do you get that figure from?

    I don't mind the scraggy arsed barsteward from around the corner trying to sire my daughter getting his head shaved and his arse kicked by the BSM, but not my children and grandchildren.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,286
    Scott_xP said:

    @PickardJE
    - Rishi Sunak is bound to be asked if tonight’s announcement means he is giving up on levelling-up Britain’s left-behind areas

    - given the national service policy would be funded mostly (though not entirely) from the UK Shared Prosperity Fund, which was previously earmarked for levelling-up

    I think we know that ship has well and truly sailed.

    He finally killed off the tory bollocks about levelling up when he destroyed the HS2 to the North project on a whim.

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    The young have done it, we shut our lives down for two years to protect the elderly.

    That's not really true. It wasn't two years, and it wasn't just to protect the elderly. Many younger people died from COVID and many more could have done without the first lockdown. A collapse to healthcare was definitely on the cards in march 2020. There is an awful lot of revisionism around now. A poster with a similar name to you spent ages posting 'lockdown now!'
    I am shocked to see you supporting this stupid idea. A policy which you'll never have to do and the people who have to do it in years to come, won't be able to vote for it.

    We absolutely did lock down to protect the elderly and society - we did our bit. In return we've been shafted. So Rishi can sod off with his stupid ideas, I am genuinely really angry about this idea.
    Huh? I'm not supporting the idea? I'm posting about your comments on lockdown.
    Then if you're not supporting it, say it's a stupid idea.
This discussion has been closed.