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Braving a New World – politicalbetting.com

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  • Even if we win tonight we are getting done over by the All Blacks, I'd rather lose a semi.

    (Oh get your minds out of the gutter.)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,843
    Here we go!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    Even if we win tonight we are getting done over by the All Blacks, I'd rather lose a semi.

    (Oh get your minds out of the gutter.)

    All Blacks will be overwhelming favourites if England go though so the pressure will be on them, England have nothing to lose as nobody expected them to get to the final
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,184
    Sandpit said:

    maxh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    maxh said:

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I agree about the increase in the African population but part of the problem there is violent Islam, which was surely a spin-off from the Iraq War.

    I mean, I greatly enjoyed it at the time but Iraq 2 was surely the greatest strategic blunder of the last century. It was completely unnecessary and surely marks the start of the decline of the west.
    The economic decline of the West relative to the rest of the world is to be welcomed imo. The opposite would be a scandal.
    I wholeheartedly agree on the relative economic decline (obvs not absolute).

    But we should not welcome the decline in western values (or at least the values the west professes to hold - hypocrisy is a real problem). This is what Alan is picking up on I think - he is absolutely correct that democracy has lost legitimacy and we urgently need to rebuild that legitimacy to be able to promote it worldwide.

    Right now I can see why developing nations might pick a Chinese social model over a European or American one, and that’s a problem in my eyes.
    There is of course the problem with 'a Chinese social model' that there is no way of knowing, once they have it, that they have picked it.

    Democracy on our model, with all its flaws, is the only basic format known to logic and reason which is able to test out at all, though imperfectly, the claim that 'we in power are doing what the people want'.
    Very much agree. When I say I can see why developing nations might pick such a model, I mean the leaders of those nations not the populace. I’m not advocating such a choice in the slightest.

    Though, in my darker moments, watching Russian aggression, democratic implosion in USA and the rise of populism globally, I do vaguely wonder if things go really south in my lifetime, historians might look back on 21st century and see the Chinese model as the least worst option.

    Obviously a Uighur, Tibetan or (probably) Taiwanese would vociferously disagree.
    I don't see how you can be both pro-democracy and complaining of populism. Democracy and populism are not the same, obviously, but populism is a normal facet of democracy which quite naturally arises whenever political leaders become too detached from the concerns of a large segment of the electorate.
    Sorry, missed this.

    Yes I see your point and I think reducing the disconnection between politicians and the population they serve is healthy, if sometimes a bit messy.

    My fear is that the current round of populism is more than that - the fragmentation of political discourse and the power of segmented easy answers to tricky questions through eg targeted Facebook ads allows a populist to unwind the democratic process such that they can hold onto power even when their own disconnect with the people is as great as the politicians they displaced.

    But perhaps it has ever been thus.
    Well perhaps the establishment politicians had been spending for too much time working for their donors, rather than their electorate? If they’re only in it for themselves, why shouldn’t they be voted out?
    Oh I agree with you. And if the end result is politicians that are in it for the electorate, all well and good.

    But that’s not what seems to happen. More often eg with Johnson it’s democracy, trust and the rule of law that suffers from populism, such that the next lot of politicians find it even easier to ignore the electorate in favour of their own interests.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Swing Low.

    This is going to be a long 20 minutes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    HYUFD said:

    Even if we win tonight we are getting done over by the All Blacks, I'd rather lose a semi.

    (Oh get your minds out of the gutter.)

    All Blacks will be overwhelming favourites if England go though so the pressure will be on them, England have nothing to lose as nobody expected them to get to the final
    Not so sure. Are you watching tonight? SA number one in the world and currently second best. Currently. Probably won’t last the 80…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Yet again England blown a 5-yard chance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Damn.

    A politically connected Detroit synagogue president was found stabbed dead this morning outside her home. She was 40.
    https://twitter.com/bluestein/status/1715814820698619931
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Oh, Jeremy Corbyn.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    maxh said:

    Andy_JS said:

    maxh said:

    algarkirk said:

    maxh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I agree about the increase in the African population but part of the problem there is violent Islam, which was surely a spin-off from the Iraq War.

    I mean, I greatly enjoyed it at the time but Iraq 2 was surely the greatest strategic blunder of the last century. It was completely unnecessary and surely marks the start of the decline of the west.
    The economic decline of the West relative to the rest of the world is to be welcomed imo. The opposite would be a scandal.
    I wholeheartedly agree on the relative economic decline (obvs not absolute).

    But we should not welcome the decline in western values (or at least the values the west professes to hold - hypocrisy is a real problem). This is what Alan is picking up on I think - he is absolutely correct that democracy has lost legitimacy and we urgently need to rebuild that legitimacy to be able to promote it worldwide.

    Right now I can see why developing nations might pick a Chinese social model over a European or American one, and that’s a problem in my eyes.
    There is of course the problem with 'a Chinese social model' that there is no way of knowing, once they have it, that they have picked it.

    Democracy on our model, with all its flaws, is the only basic format known to logic and reason which is able to test out at all, though imperfectly, the claim that 'we in power are doing what the people want'.
    Very much agree. When I say I can see why developing nations might pick such a model, I mean the leaders of those nations not the populace. I’m not advocating such a choice in the slightest.

    Though, in my darker moments, watching Russian aggression, democratic implosion in USA and the rise of populism globally, I do vaguely wonder if things go really south in my lifetime, historians might look back on 21st century and see the Chinese model as the least worst option.

    Obviously a Uighur, Tibetan or (probably) Taiwanese would vociferously disagree.
    I don't see how you can be both pro-democracy and complaining of populism. Democracy and populism are not the same, obviously, but populism is a normal facet of democracy which quite naturally arises whenever political leaders become too detached from the concerns of a large segment of the electorate.
    Sorry, missed this.

    Yes I see your point and I think reducing the disconnection between politicians and the population they serve is healthy, if sometimes a bit messy.

    My fear is that the current round of populism is more than that - the fragmentation of political discourse and the power of segmented easy answers to tricky questions through eg targeted Facebook ads allows a populist to unwind the democratic process such that they can hold onto power even when their own disconnect with the people is as great as the politicians they displaced.

    But perhaps it has ever been thus.
    General Boulanger has entered the chat, carrying a baguette.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,347
    edited October 2023
    England going to lose now. You can't lose every scrum.
  • A Welsh friend observes that the New Zealand ref is doing his best to ensure New Zealand play the worst team in the final.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114

    England going to lose now. You can't lose every scrum.

    Just have to avoid scrums… But yes, if you can’t win your scrum you are in trouble.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114

    A Welsh friend observes that the New Zealand ref is doing his best to ensure New Zealand play the worst team in the final.

    Are they bitter, much? Love our Celtic friends.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646
    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106

    Interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the implications. Care to explain?

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a243_7l48.pdf
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a243.html
  • A Welsh friend observes that the New Zealand ref is doing his best to ensure New Zealand play the worst team in the final.

    Are they bitter, much? Love our Celtic friends.
    Well, they were replying to my comments about their years long comments about England being shit.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Don't have a good feeling about this
  • Fuck.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Fucking appalling and very very predictable
  • Game over for England.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106

    Interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the implications. Care to explain?

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a243_7l48.pdf
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a243.html
    Trope on the American Right that Obama/Biden colluded with like minded people running social media companies to Suppress The Truth.

    Hence a number of attempts to ban Executive Branch contacting/connecting with social media outfits.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    edited October 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Even if we win tonight we are getting done over by the All Blacks, I'd rather lose a semi.

    (Oh get your minds out of the gutter.)

    All Blacks will be overwhelming favourites if England go though so the pressure will be on them, England have nothing to lose as nobody expected them to get to the final
    They'd only be about 1.5 favs, I think.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    All over, but still a great performance by England. No one expected this team to get to the semis and everyone expected this group to get destroyed by SA in a similar manner to Argentina yesterday. They've done brilliantly well to get this far and come this close to a final.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    .
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106

    Interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the implications. Care to explain?

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a243_7l48.pdf
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a243.html
    Potential 1st amendment violations, if government agencies are telling social media companies to ban accounts.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    England about to muck it up?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,597
    England still favourites.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106

    Interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the implications. Care to explain?

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a243_7l48.pdf
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a243.html
    I just assume if Thomas is on the side of something it's probably in support of something corrupt.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    That wasn't a great kick from England.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Is this really true, or might it just mean he's thinking about switching to a safer constituency?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106

    Interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the implications. Care to explain?

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a243_7l48.pdf
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a243.html
    I just assume if Thomas is on the side of something it's probably in support of something corrupt.
    Thomas and Alito will do anything to screw over a Democratic administration. With Gorsuch it's more that he doesn't want any government to have any powers.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,843
    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    But to be fair, Hunt is in a unique position. He won’t be leader, and best case he just stays CX in the unlikely event they win. Nowhere else for him to go.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    MaxPB said:

    All over, but still a great performance by England. No one expected this team to get to the semis and everyone expected this group to get destroyed by SA in a similar manner to Argentina yesterday. They've done brilliantly well to get this far and come this close to a final.

    Quite frankly.
    Anyone who saw the draw expected them to be semi finalists.
    Anything else would have been a shock.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Well nice while it lasted
  • Ah well.

    A noble defeat and we went further than the Welsh, Scots, Irish, French, and Australia.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,411
    kle4 said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court *freezes* Louisiana district court ruling that would’ve barred a wide range of contacts between executive branch officials and social media companies.

    Justices Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch publicly dissent in separate opinion.

    https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1715460651399717106

    Interesting, but I'm not sure I understand the implications. Care to explain?

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23a243_7l48.pdf
    https://www.supremecourt.gov/docket/docketfiles/html/public/23a243.html
    I just assume if Thomas is on the side of something it's probably in support of something corrupt.
    I could answer that, but you’d need to donate a couple of million to an non-profit associated with my wife, first.
  • Ah well.

    A noble defeat and we went further than the Welsh, Scots, Irish, French, and Australia.

    "Wouldn't you prefer a nice game of Chess Football?"
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    Didn't need to be a defeat. Our scrum was woeful.

    If we'd just held our own we would have won.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    biggles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I agree about the increase in the African population but part of the problem there is violent Islam, which was surely a spin-off from the Iraq War.

    I mean, I greatly enjoyed it at the time but Iraq 2 was surely the greatest strategic blunder of the last century. It was completely unnecessary and surely marks the start of the decline of the west.
    The economic decline of the West relative to the rest of the world is to be welcomed imo. The opposite would be a scandal.
    Iraq 2 contributed to economic decline, but that's really beside the point.
    We'd been struggling towards a principles based global order. Iraq fatally undermined what moral authority the U.S. and its allies had, and seriously divided western societies.
    Yes because leaving Saddam Hussein in power, one of the most bloody dictators of the 20th century, would have been such a moral decision!
    If postponed, we’d have ended up doing the same thing no more than five years later.
    Why? There are brutal dictators all over the world be we don't feel the need to kill 200,000 people and spend $800bn a time to depose them.
    They hadn’t stuck the finger up to Daddy Bush though
    Daddy Bush decided not to topple Saddam after defeating him in the Gulf War and liberating Kuwait, even though Thatcher wanted to (first and probably last time we had a UK PM who was right of a US Republican President)
    Hope so because state of the GOP we'd need something like PM Tommy Robinson to achieve that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    No-one got unrealistic hopes up, did they?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    Rubbish.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    Arse....
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,872
    You've got to play the full 80 minutes against SA.

    Not 50, not 60, not even 70..

    80.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,843
    Well I prefer cricket anyway.

    Oh, shit…
  • At least I can go back to saying BORTHWICK OUT.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    As someone who grew up on Rugby League as well as a Union fan, I still can't get my head around a game being decided by the scrum.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,207
    80 minutes on the clock and we could still have won it and been in the final. We'd have taken that a few weeks back.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    That was worse than getting thrashed in a way.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    dixiedean said:

    As someone who grew up on Rugby League as well as a Union fan, I still can't get my head around a game being decided by the scrum.

    At lest every single play isn’t exactly the same…
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Certainly a better effort than the cricket !
  • kinabalu said:

    That was worse than getting thrashed in a way.

    Its the hope that kills you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,843
    The BBC says England “crash” out. Eh?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Disgusted, but sadly not shocked.

    This photo from a pro-Palestinian rally in Warsaw has shocked the world.

    Visegrad24 has identified the young woman in the photo.

    Meet Marie Andersen.

    She is a Norwegian medical student at the Medical University of Warsaw.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715792860241363377
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    Hopefully Barnes can get the final rather than stop every 2 seconds Reynard Mathieu
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    80 minutes on the clock and we could still have won it and been in the final. We'd have taken that a few weeks back.

    Yes we overperformed.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,627
    That was more painful than I expected. Overall we exceeded expectations but still 😡😡😡
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    biggles said:

    The BBC says England “crash” out. Eh?

    Perhaps they put the BBC Brexit headline up by mistake?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,114
    kinabalu said:

    80 minutes on the clock and we could still have won it and been in the final. We'd have taken that a few weeks back.

    Yes we overperformed.
    I don’t agree. Arguably we have been underperforming fit a few years and this was more like it. Gutted, but expected not to be in the final and we aren’t.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,833
    Nigelb said:

    Disgusted, but sadly not shocked.

    This photo from a pro-Palestinian rally in Warsaw has shocked the world.

    Visegrad24 has identified the young woman in the photo.

    Meet Marie Andersen.

    She is a Norwegian medical student at the Medical University of Warsaw.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715792860241363377

    I suspect she won't see her time out at her University
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,184
    Nigelb said:

    Disgusted, but sadly not shocked.

    This photo from a pro-Palestinian rally in Warsaw has shocked the world.

    Visegrad24 has identified the young woman in the photo.

    Meet Marie Andersen.

    She is a Norwegian medical student at the Medical University of Warsaw.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715792860241363377

    That’s horrific. So much so that I hope it is somehow fake.
    Thanks for posting this stuff. I don’t really feel it’s appropriate to ‘like’ it but do value it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903

    kinabalu said:

    80 minutes on the clock and we could still have won it and been in the final. We'd have taken that a few weeks back.

    Yes we overperformed.
    I don’t agree. Arguably we have been underperforming fit a few years and this was more like it. Gutted, but expected not to be in the final and we aren’t.
    But expectations weren't that we'd get 2 mins and 1 pt from the final.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769

    kinabalu said:

    80 minutes on the clock and we could still have won it and been in the final. We'd have taken that a few weeks back.

    Yes we overperformed.
    I don’t agree. Arguably we have been underperforming fit a few years and this was more like it. Gutted, but expected not to be in the final and we aren’t.
    Yeah we didn't do much wrong this world cup. The cricket OTOH is looking decidedly poor, with some poor decisions as to who is out there. Why is Archer out there as a replacement if he can't be used ?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,646

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
    Yes. But he's anti-woke. And that's all that matters to this Government. :(
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,678

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
    As far as I’m concerned, the current chancellor needs to run in a GE because the governments economic policy is on the line in a campaign.

    If Hunt is going to quit at the GE then he should have the good grace to quit as Chancellor.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    @BloombergUK

    Chancellor of the Exchequer Jeremy Hunt has no plans to step down before the next election, his spokesman said after the Observer newspaper reported that Hunt would resign from Parliament before the vote
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,557
    Why did no one tell me Catania is a filthy, Mafia-infested shit-hole?

    I love it. It’s like Naples but WORSE
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,141
    South Africa look destined to win the WC after scraping two single point wins. I really hope they don’t but fear the worst . England just needed one more score and it went downhill after they messed up in the SA corner .

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Scott_xP said:

    @BloombergUK

    Chancellor of the Exchequer Jeremy Hunt has no plans to step down before the next election, his spokesman said after the Observer newspaper reported that Hunt would resign from Parliament before the vote

    So he will probably stand down at the next election then and not be a candidate
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,903
    Nigelb said:

    Disgusted, but sadly not shocked.

    This photo from a pro-Palestinian rally in Warsaw has shocked the world.

    Visegrad24 has identified the young woman in the photo.

    Meet Marie Andersen.

    She is a Norwegian medical student at the Medical University of Warsaw.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1715792860241363377

    Gross. Can hardly mount an ''anti Israel doesn't mean jew hate' defence about that one.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,141
    edited October 2023
    Scott_xP said:

    @BloombergUK

    Chancellor of the Exchequer Jeremy Hunt has no plans to step down before the next election, his spokesman said after the Observer newspaper reported that Hunt would resign from Parliament before the vote

    Well of course he’d deny it . Otherwise it would look like the rats leaving a sinking ship .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited October 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
    As far as I’m concerned, the current chancellor needs to run in a GE because the governments economic policy is on the line in a campaign.

    If Hunt is going to quit at the GE then he should have the good grace to quit as Chancellor.
    No, from Hunt's perspective the longer he stays as Chancellor and the more he cuts inflation and the deficit the better his CV looks for a highly paid city directorship or FTSE 100 company board post after he steps down as an MP.

    He also then doesn't have to face the indignity of being rejected by the common people a la Portillo in his marginal seat on election night as he won't be a Tory candidate again (if he stays in Parliament it will only be with a peerage where no ballot box needed to get it)
  • nico679 said:

    South Africa look destined to win the WC after scraping two single point wins. I really hope they don’t but fear the worst . England just needed one more score and it went downhill after they messed up in the SA corner .

    They never seemed to have the ball in their hands after that point.

    I can't remember such a narrow margin in a match where one team had its scrum continually demolished and had no attacking flair.

    So England shouldn't be downhearted and they now get a comfortable win over Argentina and third place instead of being thrashed by the Polynesian Globetrotters in the final.
  • No one mentioning that Farrell lost us that final by mouthing off to the ref?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,678
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
    As far as I’m concerned, the current chancellor needs to run in a GE because the governments economic policy is on the line in a campaign.

    If Hunt is going to quit at the GE then he should have the good grace to quit as Chancellor.
    No, from Hunt's perspective the longer he stays as Chancellor and the more he cuts inflation and the deficit the better his CV looks for a highly paid city directorship or FTSE 100 company board post after he steps down as an MP.

    He also then doesn't have to face the indignity of being rejected by the common people a la Portillo in his marginal seat on election night as he won't be a Tory candidate again (if he stays in Parliament it will only be with a peerage where no ballot box needed to get it)
    That might be how he calculates it but you can’t run an election campaign without a chancellor. So if his heart isn’t in it he needs to let someone else have a go at the pre-election budget.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    Timmycool said:

    No one mentioning that Farrell lost us that final by mouthing off to the ref?

    @alexmassie

    You could start with 14 immensely likeable chaps but add Owen Farrell and you create a team impossible to love.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited October 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589

    People said the same about Huckabee in 2008 or Santorum in 2012 or even Carter in 1976, Iowa is won bit by bit and even 13 could make the difference in a close election. Santorum beat Romney by just 34 votes in the 2012 Iowa caucuses.

    Pence also has the hardest line against abortion in the evangelical heavy state and his senior adviser also was an adviser to Huckabee and Santorum
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,675
    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589

    I know it's only a TV show, but is anyone watching the last season of Billions?

    One of the characters is running for President
  • Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589

    I know it's only a TV show, but is anyone watching the last season of Billions?

    One of the characters is running for President
    Best show on TV at the moment, really gutted it is ending next week.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,286
    Hunt has already been selected for one of the new Surrey seats (I think the one based around Godalming), which has a notional majority of about 7,500 over the LibDems. He is also regarded as a solid constituency MP....but he would face a tough fight.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518
    MaxPB said:

    I'm not going to believe until the whistle blows. SA have a knack for winning at the last.

    I'd love to claim this as prophetic but it was just inevitable.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,160
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589

    People said the same about Huckabee in 2008 or Santorum in 2012 or even Carter in 1976, Iowa is won bit by bit and even 13 could make the difference in a close election. Santorum beat Romney by just 34 votes in the 2012 Iowa caucuses.

    Pence also has the hardest line against abortion in the evangelical heavy state
    Yes, that struck me on reading that. The whole point of the Iowa caucus is that 15 people can make a difference on the snowy night in January surely?
  • Timmycool said:

    No one mentioning that Farrell lost us that final by mouthing off to the ref?

    When a margin is that close then almost any change might have changed things.

    Just giving away one fewer penalty at a scrum would likely have been enough for example.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Scott_xP said:

    Timmycool said:

    No one mentioning that Farrell lost us that final by mouthing off to the ref?

    @alexmassie

    You could start with 14 immensely likeable chaps but add Owen Farrell and you create a team impossible to love.
    This.

    I was barely disappointed that they lost.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
    As far as I’m concerned, the current chancellor needs to run in a GE because the governments economic policy is on the line in a campaign.

    If Hunt is going to quit at the GE then he should have the good grace to quit as Chancellor.
    No, from Hunt's perspective the longer he stays as Chancellor and the more he cuts inflation and the deficit the better his CV looks for a highly paid city directorship or FTSE 100 company board post after he steps down as an MP.

    He also then doesn't have to face the indignity of being rejected by the common people a la Portillo in his marginal seat on election night as he won't be a Tory candidate again (if he stays in Parliament it will only be with a peerage where no ballot box needed to get it)
    That might be how he calculates it but you can’t run an election campaign without a chancellor. So if his heart isn’t in it he needs to let someone else have a go at the pre-election budget.
    Is there anything beyond rumours at the moment?

    And whilst there might not be any properly safe Conservative seats right now, Godalming and Ash doesn't look too bad...

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/calcwork23.py?seat=Godalming and Ash
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,320
    Scott_xP said:

    Timmycool said:

    No one mentioning that Farrell lost us that final by mouthing off to the ref?

    @alexmassie

    You could start with 14 immensely likeable chaps but add Owen Farrell and you create a team impossible to love.
    Too working class?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589

    People said the same about Huckabee in 2008 or Santorum in 2012 or even Carter in 1976, Iowa is won bit by bit and even 13 could make the difference in a close election. Santorum beat Romney by just 34 votes in the 2012 Iowa caucuses.

    Pence also has the hardest line against abortion in the evangelical heavy state
    Yes, that struck me on reading that. The whole point of the Iowa caucus is that 15 people can make a difference on the snowy night in January surely?
    Exactly and even more so a snowy night in January where only diehard Iowa Republicans and anti abortion evangelicals will bother to turn out for the Republican caucuses in the state
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,163

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fairly remarkable for a Chancellor to decide, while in office, that he won't run at the next election.

    Not that surprising if his party is heading for opposition, his prospects of being next party leader are near zero and he has the chance to make more money in the private sector outside
    I don't see why he remains in position now, if this is his attitude. There's no long term commitment to the British economy - no plan to return it to prosperity. The Chancellor should at least be pretending to be committed long term, whether it's likely that his party will remain in office or not. I can't remember similar circumstances in my lifetime.
    He is committed to reducing the deficit and inflation and as he is not standing for re election does not need to worry about being popular (albeit the Tory manifesto may still propose tax cuts even if he won't)
    Politicians wanting to do popular things so they get re-elected is a feature of democracy, not a bug. Hunt's plan to asphyxiate the economy under a record breaking tax burden whilst he continues to piss the money away on an unreformed state and then fuck off at the next election is unprecedented and despicable. He should stand down as Chancellor immediately.
    As far as I’m concerned, the current chancellor needs to run in a GE because the governments economic policy is on the line in a campaign.

    If Hunt is going to quit at the GE then he should have the good grace to quit as Chancellor.
    He has issued a denial of sorts, but it's likely he'll get pressed on this in interviews, and if he does plan to step down 'at' the next election (as opposed to 'before' it) he'll be asked if he plans to fight the election, and then either need to commit to a brazen lie, or his 'clever' wording is going to look really bad.

    Any authority he has as Chancellor is seriously called into question by this.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,040
    edited October 2023
    My summary:

    Scrums are all about props. Not a glamorous position but do 90% of the important work in scrums.

    We matched them with the original lineup, but our own tired starting lineup struggled against their replacements. We brought on our replacement props but they simply aren't as good at scrums as Marler/Cole. And the game (both our own scrum on the half way line that led to their five metre lineout and a try; plus the final kick) was decided from their dominant from from around 50 minutes onwards.

    Disappointing to lose a match in the scrum in that way where we were otherwise the better team on the day, but it certainly showed we deserved to be in the semi final so means we leave the tournament with our heads held high.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited October 2023
    JohnO said:

    Hunt has already been selected for one of the new Surrey seats (I think the one based around Godalming), which has a notional majority of about 7,500 over the LibDems. He is also regarded as a solid constituency MP....but he would face a tough fight.

    I think the prospect of losing to smug jeering LDs as he is humiliated on stage as he loses the seat is too much for him to risk, even losing to Labour is better than losing to the LDs for most Tories.

    Ask Chris Patten when he lost Bath in 1992 to them despite being Tory Party chairman
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-29932217
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,518

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    It is darkly diverting watching progressive left wing pro-immigration Jews on TwiX now suddenly seeing the terrible downsides of multiculturalism

    Very hard to see how this plays out

    Why don't you just let rip with the anti muslim prejudice instead of dressing it up with these artful constructions?
    Because I’m making a particular point which you are determined to misconstrue

    Whatevs
    'Multiculturalism doesn't work'

    Isn't that it? Your particular point?
    No. It isn’t

    I mean we can continue your infantile discourse if you like, but I’m making a more sophisticated point

    Jewish people of the left - previously progressive, pro immigration and pro multiculturalism - are suddenly realising these polices are a disaster for them

    As they are a vocal and influential constituency within the left - in Britain and elsewhere - this will have a significant effect on our politics. I have Jewish friends who have made exactly this intellectual leap in the past week
    Multiculturalism would be the death of Israel, the only nation globally Jews can truly be safe after the Holocaust as it is the only nation where they are the majority
    It's not about multiculturalism in Israel but multiculturalism in the West. This tweet I quoted earlier sums up the change of sentiment:

    https://twitter.com/agraybee/status/1715405782307459489

    I don't think non-Jews really grasp that Jewish people's fundamental social trust has been permanently undermined. We now
    know that our companies' DEI officers would gleefully celebrate our deaths if we were killed by the right people.
    I hadn’t considered that. It’s an important point
    My wife was saying this today about where she works, though she's only half Jewish through her dad's side she's considering going to work for a Jewish company, she doesn't trust HR teams at her own company due to some of the stuff that she's seen on their internal communication channels. It's weird because her company is run by a Jewish CEO so either he isn't being told about this or the HR team are attempting hide it from him. I've got his email and have met him a few times through my workplace and I did say I'd be happy to message him and tell him that he needs to sack the whole team for antisemitism but she doesn't want her fingerprints on it in case there's people in the company that will retaliate.
  • Claire Penis there, talking truth to shit for brains.


  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,544
    Did anyone else think that a lot of high tackles went unpunished in that match?

    (Also, those grapes I had with the cheese were a bit sharp I thought.)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,006
    "Police investigating Tube driver leading passengers in pro-Palestine chant

    The video, posted on X - formerly known as Twitter, appears to show the driver chanting over the announcement system on the Central line."

    https://news.sky.com/story/police-investigating-tube-driver-leading-passengers-in-pro-palestine-chant-12989198
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,670
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts & prayers for HYUFD.

    He Was Once a Favorite of the Right. Now, Mike Pence Can’t Get a Crowd of 15 to a Pizza Ranch.
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/21/mike-pence-sad-presidential-campaign-00122589

    I know it's only a TV show, but is anyone watching the last season of Billions?

    One of the characters is running for President
    Is it Kanye?
This discussion has been closed.