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Another demonstration of Tory ruthlessness – politicalbetting.com

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  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    edited October 2022
    Johnny Mercer back as Veterans Minister - Excellent.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    Some of these later appointments e.g. Victoria Prentis as AG, John Glen, Chief Sec and Johnny Mercer as Veterans Minister attending Cabinet, makes me think that overall this has been a rather more successful reshuffle than might first appear. Look too at the later junior appointments.

    But everything depends on Hunt’s October 31st announcements.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,466
    Scott_xP said:

    The Rt Hon Johnny Mercer MP @JohnnyMercerUK has been appointed a Minister of State (Minister for Veterans’ Affairs) in the Cabinet Office @CabinetOfficeUK.

    He will attend Cabinet.

    #Reshuffle https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1584981124681728001/photo/1

    Guess he's staying then!
  • kle4 said:

    Entirely unasked for or desired, but I have had a look at the new Cabinet. Despite the return of some old favourites and thus parliamentary experience, the presence of youthful figures including Rishi himself means the average age is only a little up from Truss's Cabinet, and the mix of newbies and oldies who have never been in Cabinet (like Harper - Chief Whip attends but is not in - and Davis means the average time to get into Cabinet is near identical.

    The regional breakdown is very similar, dominated by East and South East, with a smattering for the other regions of England, with the North East the big losers, and Wales a winner in actually having a Welsh Secretary representing a Welsh constituency.

    So what we really need is some London based politicians, perhaps from Islington or Hampstead to balance things out?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    Just for the record, any PBers who think Suella should have been reappointed please say so now

    I wouldnt pick her as shes far too waspish but given her resignation was plainly contrived after a screaming match about immigration i see no 'issue' with it. The 'breach' was manufactured to precipitate resignation and defenestration imo
    So she breached intentionally as part of a political game, when she could have just resigned over policy, which most people believed to be the case anyway?

    So she is a liar and unprincipled to boot?
    You might think that, you might very well think that. I could not possibly comment.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331

    Victoria Prentis appointed Attorney General

    Interesting. A remainer and a barrister. Voted for Rory Stewart as leader in 2019.
    If Rishi is reaching out to the Rory Tories, he is indeed going for a Big Tent!!
    Your Marquee, even.
  • Frank Spencer still got nothing...perhaps they locked him the basement at #10.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 5,933
    kle4 said:

    Entirely unasked for or desired, but I have had a look at the new Cabinet. Despite the return of some old favourites and thus parliamentary experience, the presence of youthful figures including Rishi himself means the average age is only a little up from Truss's Cabinet, and the mix of newbies and oldies who have never been in Cabinet (like Harper - Chief Whip attends but is not in - and Davis means the average time to get into Cabinet is near identical.

    The regional breakdown is very similar, dominated by East and South East, with a smattering for the other regions of England, with the North East the big losers, and Wales a winner in actually having a Welsh Secretary representing a Welsh constituency.

    Thanks for this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    Nigelb said:

    The cabinet does make me realise though - crikey, do they need a bit of time to recharge and restock in opposition. The lack of talent on display here is pretty telling.

    I will give them Hunt, Gove, Wallace, Badenoch and Penny. Beyond that, there’s nobody of any great skill and/or substance.

    Wallace is a duffer.
    Stride isn't bad.

    Wallace is good at being defence secretary.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,578

    ..

    But she didn't report herself - the person she *mistakenly* sent a copy to reported her, as I understand it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473

    Just for the record, any PBers who think Suella should have been reappointed please say so now

    I wouldnt pick her as shes far too waspish but given her resignation was plainly contrived after a screaming match about immigration i see no 'issue' with it. The 'breach' was manufactured to precipitate resignation and defenestration imo
    The breach was manufactured? You mean Braverman didn't send official information out from her private email? So she lied in her resignation letter?

    A breach is a breach.
    What's worse: sending a policy document to an elected backbencher or to a journalist?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,244
    John Glen and Mark Harper are both grown ups.

    So those are reassuring appointments.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,938
    No-one in govt able to confirm tonight that the Budget statement will take place as planned as October 31. Possible it will slip a couple of days to allow Sunak to tinker with it, but Treasury keen to get it out before Bank of England decision on interest rates on Nov 3

    https://twitter.com/JasonGroves1/status/1584976498939023360
  • MikeL said:

    Chief Secretary to the Treasury - John Glen

    (Attends Cabinet, not full member)

    Let's hope he's made of The Right Stuff.
    I would have thought he was better suited to the Home Office. He would know how to deal with the illegal aliens.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    No change for Tugenhat
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    @oleksiireznikov
    Congratulations to my friend and colleague Ben Wallace on his reappointment to office. With partners and great friends such as these we will definitely win! I believe that our defence cooperation will only be strengthened.
    🇺🇦🤝🇬🇧


    https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1584960319906287616
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    This is about right as a summary, of both the thinking and the risks, isn't it?

    Sunak's deal with the right is "let me do the economics and you can have your culture war / immigration headlines". Problem is if liberal votes hate the authoritarianism and authoritarians hate the economics.....

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1584959336182599682?

    The problem though is that the economy needs some loosening of the immigration rules, which takes us back to the Truss Braverman bust up.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854

    Dammit, I think I'll open the champagne anyway.

    Anybody who simply wants better Government will be breaking open the Bolly.

    The improvement over what we have had for so long is immeasurable.
    Yes, indeed. Braverman is a bit of a downer, though.
    More than 'a bit of a downer'. Shows that when you scratch the surface you're left with the same old gang
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    MikeL said:

    kle4 said:

    Entirely unasked for or desired, but I have had a look at the new Cabinet. Despite the return of some old favourites and thus parliamentary experience, the presence of youthful figures including Rishi himself means the average age is only a little up from Truss's Cabinet, and the mix of newbies and oldies who have never been in Cabinet (like Harper - Chief Whip attends but is not in - and Davis means the average time to get into Cabinet is near identical...........

    Good analysis.

    Cabinet has 23 members so you are missing two.

    I think they are Sharma and Lord True whose roles are unchanged (Sharma's has changed a bit).
    Sharma has kept his post, but lost its Cabinet place.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    Dura_Ace said:



    Not sure no 10 would be willing to accept 10-20k a year . There are some good suggestions there but no 3 would be politically very hard for Macron to sell to the French public .

    2 is bollocks as well because UAS that can operate in civvie controlled airspace (like that above the Channel) are very expensive. MQ-9B/Protector RG.1 = £63m each and the tories delayed the delivery of the British ones by two years to save money.
    Could get a couple for the cost of the Rwanda deal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited October 2022
    MikeL said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    kle4 said:

    Entirely unasked for or desired, but I have had a look at the new Cabinet. Despite the return of some old favourites and thus parliamentary experience, the presence of youthful figures including Rishi himself means the average age is only a little up from Truss's Cabinet, and the mix of newbies and oldies who have never been in Cabinet (like Harper - Chief Whip attends but is not in - and Davis means the average time to get into Cabinet is near identical...........

    Good analysis.

    Cabinet has 23 members so you are missing two.

    I think they are Sharma and Lord True whose roles are unchanged
    COP26 Chair is no longer a Cabinet post, and I left out the Lords Leader when I did it for Truss, on the basis I was looking at experience as an MP only.
    OK, but there are always 23 so there will be someone else if it's not Sharma.
    Is there? A quick glance suggests May's first ministry had 22, and that included a department which no longer exists.

    Varied 'attends Cabinet' roles though. Donelan at least seems confused at the difference, despite the government's own website making the distinction, as she claimed to have been in Cabinet before in an interview a few weeks ago, when talking about not claiming for the 2 days she was in Cabinet as Education secretary.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,473
    @VeerleNouwens
    Dutch news reporting that the Dutch MFA has confirmed the apparent existence of two illegal Chinese police stations in the Netherlands - one in Rotterdam and one in Amsterdam - that have been in operation since 2018.


    https://twitter.com/VeerleNouwens/status/1584945033777758210
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,938
    IanB2 said:

    It’s funny, isn’t it - as a non-Tory, months of despising Johnson as our national leader and then a few days of despising Truss and then really really not wanting Johnson back again - and I’ve thought myself into thinking that Sunak and I are almost on the same side.

    It takes a bunch of numpty and mendacious Tories appointed to the Cabinet to remind me that it just ain’t so.

    Rishi has to keep fishing in the same pool of nomarks who agreed to vote for BoZo's shitty deal to keep their seats

    It's hard to assemble a solid cabinet from these dregs
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022
    "Jacob Rees-Mogg: Why I no longer believe Rishi Sunak is a socialist".

    He doesn't actually say why, other than that Sunak is leader of the Conservative party. He doesn't try to justify his earlier assertion to the contrary either. He seems to be at a complete loss for anything interesting to say, at least to judge from this piece in the Torygraph. Rees-Mogg is yesterday's man who is one of the best known senior Tories among the population, but who achieved absolutely f*** all when he was a minister.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    @VeerleNouwens
    Dutch news reporting that the Dutch MFA has confirmed the apparent existence of two illegal Chinese police stations in the Netherlands - one in Rotterdam and one in Amsterdam - that have been in operation since 2018.


    https://twitter.com/VeerleNouwens/status/1584945033777758210

    Coming over here, issuing our FPNs
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    edited October 2022
    @kle4 - I think the other member of the Cabinet not in your analysis is Simon Hart - Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury.

    He was the third name announced after Hunt and Raab so surely must be in Cabinet.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    mwadams said:

    ..

    But she didn't report herself - the person she *mistakenly* sent a copy to reported her, as I understand it.
    Yes, the person who she thought was the wife of the person who stands in as her brain?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    edited October 2022
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    It helps you cope to drop an E before attending Cabinet.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    The Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson CBE MP
    @GavinWilliamson
    has been appointed a Minister of State (Minister without Portfolio) in the Cabinet Office
    @CabinetOfficeUK

    He will attend Cabinet.

    Did he wait around all day just for that?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,938
    NEW: Gavin Williamson, former Education Secretary, makes his return to government as cabinet office minister.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    Sir Gavin is Minister of State for Tarantulas
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,699

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    So far I’ve not seen a single Scot given a roll.

    Okay, there are only six of them, but c’mon, one or two are not as useless as some of the English MPs given government jobs. Honourable mention: Lamont. (Borderline sentient being: Mundell. Four cro-magnons.)

    Gove was born and raised in Scotland and is the new Levelling up Secretary, Ben Wallace was an MSP and is Defence Secretary again.
    It's the people who were actually elected by Scottish constituencies that we are concerned with. Mr Wallace isn't one now. It's about as relevant as winning a Blue Peter badge from 1968.
    In fairness the original opening did not specify consitutuencies, but 'a single Scot given a roll'.
    did somebody say scotch roll?

    https://scottishscran.com/scottish-morning-rolls-recipe/
    Had one with game terrine for lunch.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    @VeerleNouwens
    Dutch news reporting that the Dutch MFA has confirmed the apparent existence of two illegal Chinese police stations in the Netherlands - one in Rotterdam and one in Amsterdam - that have been in operation since 2018.


    https://twitter.com/VeerleNouwens/status/1584945033777758210

    Coming over here, issuing our FPNs
    " I did think it odd after getting my speeding ticket that I got a bag of prawn crackers and a fortune cookie".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    MikeL said:

    @kle4 - I think the other member of the Cabinet not in your analysis is Simon Hart - Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury.

    He was the third name announced after Hunt and Raab so surely must be in Cabinet.

    Chief Whip seems to traditionally be announced early on, but the wayback machine suggests the government does not list it as a full Cabinet post

    https://web.archive.org/web/20221024075745/https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    Is Georges OK?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    Mark Harper to Transport

    Slightly ironic given he represents a constituency with only one railway station and not a single dual carriageway road (the M50 from Hartpury to Gorsley goes through the constituency but the road junctions are all in Herefordshire).

    He's not stupid, but he's never had an executive cabinet role before. Will be interesting to see how he copes.
    That first paragraph takes PB nerdyness to a new level for me.
    Who’s doing the spreadsheet so we can compare with the others?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    Is Georges OK?
    Naturally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    JohnO said:

    Sir Gavin is Minister of State for Tarantulas

    I spied 'er at last, and gave 'er summit to keep 'er quiet.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    It's possibly quite a smart idea to only appoint 22 Cabinet members if you can. Allows the possibility of dangling a post to somebody causing trouble without having to sack anyone.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,379
    MikeL said:

    The Rt Hon Sir Gavin Williamson CBE MP
    @GavinWilliamson
    has been appointed a Minister of State (Minister without Portfolio) in the Cabinet Office
    @CabinetOfficeUK

    He will attend Cabinet.

    Did he wait around all day just for that?

    Maybe he was on standby in case anyone refused?
    "Fine! We'll just give it to Gav, then."
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,919
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    Possibly worried about what Braverman will do with E s.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    Mark Harper to Transport

    Slightly ironic given he represents a constituency with only one railway station and not a single dual carriageway road (the M50 from Hartpury to Gorsley goes through the constituency but the road junctions are all in Herefordshire).

    He's not stupid, but he's never had an executive cabinet role before. Will be interesting to see how he copes.
    That first paragraph takes PB nerdyness to a new level for me.
    On checking very carefully I find I am wrong and junction 2 of the M50 is in fact 400 yards inside Gloucestershire. So there is one dual carriageway just within his constituency.

    Does that reduce the level of nerdiness?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    @kle4 - I think the other member of the Cabinet not in your analysis is Simon Hart - Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury.

    He was the third name announced after Hunt and Raab so surely must be in Cabinet.

    Chief Whip seems to traditionally be announced early on, but the wayback machine suggests the government does not list it as a full Cabinet post

    https://web.archive.org/web/20221024075745/https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers
    Don’t think Chief Whip has ever been a full Cabinet post apart from Bob Mellish for a time in one of the Wilson governments.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,331
    alex_ said:

    It's possibly quite a smart idea to only appoint 22 Cabinet members if you can. Allows the possibility of dangling a post to somebody causing trouble without having to sack anyone.

    Also the right number if they fancy an intra-Cabinet football or cricket match.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited October 2022
    Cop26 Chair not in Cabinet, a Minister of Immigration attending Cabinet, and as of yet no word on the Minister for Climate Change being an 'attends' Cabinet as under Truss. Some eco fans will be getting nervous.

    Notably, 3 former Cabinet Ministers so far among the 'attends Cabinet' bunch.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Scott_xP said:

    As I say in the piece, there is no sense that Sunak is on the left of the party. He is not a wet. On the contrary, in so many ways he’s firmly on its right. Dry as dust economically. Ardent Brexiter. Supporter of the Rwanda policy etc. In that sense Cabinet choices not a surprise

    Instead it’s part of a longer trajectory of Conservative politics. Sunak has two competing objectives. Present a sense that “grown ups are back.” And balance the party. Sunak has calculated that the best way of achieving both objectives is to restore much of Johnson’s Cabinet.

    That might prove to be a mistake. A fresher, more technocratic cabinet might have augmented the sense of real change. Sunak is gambling you can do Johnsonian politics without Johnson’s personality, plus austerity, uniting fiscal conservatism and cultural right. Big question mark.


    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1584975322931335169

    I was going to write something very similar.

    We have a more or less identical cabinet to the Johnson era. The difference is that the PM himself is a Treasury-native, multimillionaire, ex-Goldman austerity advocate rather than a boosterish liberal conservative.

    I am no fan of Johnson, his inveterate lying and disregard for the law, but I’m not convinced this is an improvement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,699

    Has the Fireplace Salesman got a job yet?

    Williamson might be too talented for this lot. I had hopes that Sunak would sideline the loons, but the loons seem to have a firm grip on Sunak instead.
    LoonIEs, please, please; loons in this context is grossly unfair to NE Scottish farmworkers, including a forebear of mine.
  • This is about right as a summary, of both the thinking and the risks, isn't it?

    Sunak's deal with the right is "let me do the economics and you can have your culture war / immigration headlines". Problem is if liberal votes hate the authoritarianism and authoritarians hate the economics.....

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1584959336182599682?

    The problem though is that the economy needs some loosening of the immigration rules, which takes us back to the Truss Braverman bust up.
    Central paradox of the last few years.

    A lot of voters have gone for "improve prosperity by having fewer foreigners".

    It's not a stupid idea, but it does look like the choice now is actually "improve prosperity or fewer foreigners?" And I'm not sure which way the voters will go.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    edited October 2022
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    @kle4 - I think the other member of the Cabinet not in your analysis is Simon Hart - Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury.

    He was the third name announced after Hunt and Raab so surely must be in Cabinet.

    Chief Whip seems to traditionally be announced early on, but the wayback machine suggests the government does not list it as a full Cabinet post

    https://web.archive.org/web/20221024075745/https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers
    OK, thanks again!

    So who is missing? Are you sure it's not Sharma? It could be considered a bad look to be downgrading Climate Change.

    It's always 23 - which is why there are always (approx) 8 who attend Cabinet but aren't officially in it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kle4 said:

    Cop26 Chair not in Cabinet, a Minister of Immigration attending Cabinet, and as of yet no word on the Minister for Climate Change being an 'attends' Cabinet as under Truss. Some eco fans will be getting nervous.

    Truss had Rees Mogg in charge of Climate Change!!!
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    edited October 2022
    eristdoof said:

    FPT

    glw said:

    Cookie said:

    glw said:

    And yet, according to some people I've seen on Twitter (yes, I know...) the government is doing *nothing* to avert the climate emergency.

    I'd be open to the argument that they've not done enough (although you have to also keep the economy running), but they've certainly not done 'nothing'.

    It drives me nuts when I hear claims like that, and all too often from politicians and campaigners who should know better. It is not just misleading it is simply lying. That the media lap this stuff up and rarely challenge such claims makes me even angrier.
    Yes, me too.
    What has been achieved over the last 30 years has been astonishing. Why won't we celebrate this?
    It doesn't fit the usual media/NGO narrative of everything is terrible and getting worse. Saying that the UK is moving away from fossil fuels to renewable sources at a steady pace, and that we have already reached milestones like renewables providing a majority of electricity at times isn't as exciting as someone saying "nothing has been done and we are doomed".

    I'll tell you something else that's noticeable, you see a lot of cars with green flashes on the number plates now. EVs have gone from being rare, to few but hard to spot, to something you can see in ever increasing numbers. I've no doubt I'll be hearing campaigners saying "nothing is being done" when a majority of cars I see on the road have the green plates.
    This was posted at lunchtime but I couldn't reply then and I feel strongly about this.
    It is true that there have been great strides forward in renewable energy, electric cares and the rest of it. But this is not yet making any dent in the one thing that really, really matters.

    The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing. We are burning just as much coal/oil/gas as we ever were.

    It is great that Western Europe is doing so well at reducing direct emissions, but we have to reduce indirect emissions (buying things manufactured elsewhere) as well and get the rest of the world to follow in reducing direct emissions. Otherwise every ton of coal not burnt in Europe will result in an extra ton of coal being burnt somewhere else.
    I agree with that, there is still a lot to be done, but we shouldn't let that undermine the considerable progress that has been made.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,990
    If they weren't ruthless, presumably some commenter would have mentioned at least one Ruth, by now.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    alex_ said:

    kle4 said:

    Cop26 Chair not in Cabinet, a Minister of Immigration attending Cabinet, and as of yet no word on the Minister for Climate Change being an 'attends' Cabinet as under Truss. Some eco fans will be getting nervous.

    Truss had Rees Mogg in charge of Climate Change!!!
    Graham Stuart was the Minister of State (attending Cabinet) though.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Whilst we're talking about sleazy/corrupt Home Secretaries and them being brought back into Government....

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-blair-sleaze-idUKL1028888420070510

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MikeL said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    @kle4 - I think the other member of the Cabinet not in your analysis is Simon Hart - Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury.

    He was the third name announced after Hunt and Raab so surely must be in Cabinet.

    Chief Whip seems to traditionally be announced early on, but the wayback machine suggests the government does not list it as a full Cabinet post

    https://web.archive.org/web/20221024075745/https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers
    OK, thanks again!

    So who is missing? Are you sure it's not Sharma? It could be considered a bad look to be downgrading Climate Change.

    It's always 23 - which is why there are always (approx) 8 who attend Cabinet but aren't officially in it.
    23 is the legal maximum on the payroll.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    alex_ said:

    MikeL said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    kle4 - I think the other member of the Cabinet not in your analysis is Simon Hart - Chief Whip and Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury.

    He was the third name announced after Hunt and Raab so surely must be in Cabinet.

    Chief Whip seems to traditionally be announced early on, but the wayback machine suggests the government does not list it as a full Cabinet post

    https://web.archive.org/web/20221024075745/https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers
    OK, thanks again!

    So who is missing? Are you sure it's not Sharma? It could be considered a bad look to be downgrading Climate Change.

    It's always 23 - which is why there are always (approx) 8 who attend Cabinet but aren't officially in it.
    23 is the legal maximum on the payroll.
    I had no idea there was an upper limit!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    The Rt Hon Robert Jenrick MP
    @RobertJenrick
    has been appointed a Minister of State (Minister for Immigration) in the Home Office
    @UKHomeOffice

    He will attend Cabinet.
  • JACK_W said:

    Johnny Mercer back as Veterans Minister - Excellent.

    Excellent?

    Mercer puts the plonk into plonker

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    John Glen and Mark Harper are both grown ups.

    So those are reassuring appointments.

    Agreed.

    John is quite possibly the nicest and humblest politician I have ever met.
  • DJ41DJ41 Posts: 792
    edited October 2022

    @VeerleNouwens
    Dutch news reporting that the Dutch MFA has confirmed the apparent existence of two illegal Chinese police stations in the Netherlands - one in Rotterdam and one in Amsterdam - that have been in operation since 2018.


    https://twitter.com/VeerleNouwens/status/1584945033777758210

    Interesting. The return of what when other powers did the same thing was called "consular jurisdiction".

    How the sharp end of the PRC relates to the sharp end of gangster enforcement in Chinatowns around the world is somewhat of a specialist subject but there doesn't seem to be a standoff and there have never been major shootouts or even sequences of whoopsadaisy demises (as there have been in the Russozone), which says something.

    The North Korean state also does some policing abroad. In outer London's New Malden, which has a large Korean population, many South Koreans shun contact with those who were born in North Korea for that reason.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,835
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    Mark Harper to Transport

    Slightly ironic given he represents a constituency with only one railway station and not a single dual carriageway road (the M50 from Hartpury to Gorsley goes through the constituency but the road junctions are all in Herefordshire).

    He's not stupid, but he's never had an executive cabinet role before. Will be interesting to see how he copes.
    That first paragraph takes PB nerdyness to a new level for me.
    On checking very carefully I find I am wrong and junction 2 of the M50 is in fact 400 yards inside Gloucestershire. So there is one dual carriageway just within his constituency.

    Does that reduce the level of nerdiness?
    Until we see the full cabinet seat-by-seat analysis, you are just wasting our time!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Someone else can work out which county has the most Cabinet Members.

    Wiltshire has 1, though Chief Secretary to Treasury has sometimes been counted in the past, so 1-2.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114
    MikeL said:

    The Rt Hon Robert Jenrick MP
    @RobertJenrick
    has been appointed a Minister of State (Minister for Immigration) in the Home Office
    @UKHomeOffice

    He will attend Cabinet.

    Ooof. Thats a poisoned chalice if ever I saw one.....

    Like Home, it isn't exactly an area without controversy or capacity for cock-up.
  • We seem to be putting a huge amount of stock in who is Home Secretary or at Defra or whatever
    Did Merlyn Rees or Kenneth Baker swing a lot of votes in 79 or 92?

    Well exactly. Ninety percent of people probably neither know nor care who the Home Secretary is, let alone what they do.

    PM and Chancellor, that's probably about it for general knowledge. Unless there's a "character" in the position as when Johnson was FS, for example. Or
    they've hung around for so long they're part of the furniture.

    When was the last time a party lost an election because the HS was a bit shit. Or a bit divisive? Answers on a postcard
    to a PO Box in Rwanda.

    Grayling was shadow HS when the tories failed to win in 2010
    An he was the reason the Tories only gained 96 seats in that election, ousted Labour after 13 years and formed the next government?
    Of course not, surely you didn’t take anything referring to Grayling seriously?!

    Point of order - the tories (alone) didn’t form the next government, but if they’d had May as Shadow HS

    (that’s another/same joke btw, for the hard of thinking)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    Mark Harper to Transport

    Slightly ironic given he represents a constituency with only one railway station and not a single dual carriageway road (the M50 from Hartpury to Gorsley goes through the constituency but the road junctions are all in Herefordshire).

    He's not stupid, but he's never had an executive cabinet role before. Will be interesting to see how he copes.
    That first paragraph takes PB nerdyness to a new level for me.
    On checking very carefully I find I am wrong and junction 2 of the M50 is in fact 400 yards inside Gloucestershire. So there is one dual carriageway just within his constituency.

    Does that reduce the level of nerdiness?
    There’s some halfway decent Forestry Commission cycling tracks in his constituency too. But as a general rule, shire Tories are not known for being pro-cycling.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740

    This is about right as a summary, of both the thinking and the risks, isn't it?

    Sunak's deal with the right is "let me do the economics and you can have your culture war / immigration headlines". Problem is if liberal votes hate the authoritarianism and authoritarians hate the economics.....

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1584959336182599682?

    The problem though is that the economy needs some loosening of the immigration rules, which takes us back to the Truss Braverman bust up.
    Central paradox of the last few years.

    A lot of voters have gone for "improve prosperity by having fewer foreigners".

    It's not a stupid idea, ...
    Why do you think it's not stupid?
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,990
    Question for all of you: Sunak looks fit, and is said by Wiki to be a "cricket, tennis and horse racing enthusiast". Does he play any sport? Did he in the past? Does he have a regular exercise program? (He has a good build for distance running.)

    It would be fun if he could get out to Crawford and join George W. Bush for a little mountain bike riding.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited October 2022

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    nico679 said:

    biggles said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Tory fresh start was Mordaunt. This is continuity.

    With respect one unwise appointment in Braverman does not make this continuity from Truss and Johnson

    I agree with Sky that he wants to hit the ground running, and in his confirmation of Hunt as COE you will see next Monday a complete rejection of all things Truss
    Only one unwise appointment?
    To be honest I am content with most of the appointments so far
    Braverman has your full support. Do you share her dreams?
    You clearly have not read my comments and please do not put words into my mouth

    Braverman is the wrong appointment but the wider picture is Johnson and Truss have gone and in Sunak and Hunt we have the best chance to reassure the markets
    They are in fact, already reassured. Look at Gilts and the pound.
    Yes I am aware of how positively the markets have reacted even to some building societies reducing their mortgage rates

    On Braverman her hard line stance on the channel crossings will go down well in the red wall seats, but not sure how the idea we need more immigration to aid growth sits with her stance
    It’s not happening now . Sunak and the witch are on the same page .
    A stirring conviction politician, Braverman is.

    "I have a dream that one day in this great nation of ours every person who tries to get in without a visa will be deported immediately to Rwanda."

    I'm very disappointed to see her back. 2 possibilities, neither good. Sunak wants to send out some anti-migrant, strong borders, hard brexit vibe to try and appeal to that part of Johnson's 2019 voting coalition. Or she is such a power in the party that he felt he had to do this.
    Yes, but the reason "Rwanda" is persisted with as a policy and gets traction is because it annoys and infuriates all the people it's supposed to on the Left, who fall for it every time.

    Not a single person has been deported to Rwanda. Meanwhile, landings here might double to 60,000 by the end of the year.
    When I was in France a few weeks ago they were virtually running Braverman's boast about sending asylum seekers to Rwanda on a loup. Do you really think our international reputation is of so little importance it's worth losing it as long as we piss of Guardian reading lefties?
    Are they also talking about the Danes?

    Denmark to Send Immigrants to Rwanda

    September 12, 2022

    Denmark to Send Immigrants to Rwanda.

    Rather than allowing immigrants to live in Denmark, they will be sent to Rwanda, where Danish officials will manage their asylum cases.

    In a joint declaration on bilateral cooperation, the two nations stated that they were “exploring the establishment of a program through which spontaneous asylum seekers arriving in Denmark may be transferred to Rwanda for consideration of their asylum applications.”

    The statement added that it would also offer “the option of settling in Rwanda.” The declaration was made public on the website of the Danish Ministry of Immigration and Integration.

    The fact that Rwanda now explicitly indicates that it wishes to receive Danish asylum seekers takes the collaboration agreement beyond the two nations’ prior announcement of a partnership arrangement in 2021.

    Denmark‘s intention to construct an offshore or “third-country” refugee center was discussed in earlier statements in more general terms.

    Kaare Dybvad Bek and Flemming Miller Mortensen, Danish foreign development and immigration ministers, are currently in Rwanda, where they conducted a news conference on Friday to announce the new deal.

    The ruling Social Democratic Party has long expressed a desire to establish an offshore asylum center. The Danish Foreign Ministry has declared the opening of a local office in Kigali, where two of the ministry’s diplomats would be stationed beginning later this year.

    Maybe they've always seen the UK as a bastion of a civilised society? Maybe they're just pointing out what happens when a hard right wing govenment leaves the EU. I can only guess.
    They are implementing the same policy and not a word of condemnation is pure hypocrisy by you
    I think RCS has just well and truly shot that fox!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Are they done yet?


  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    kle4 said:

    Someone else can work out which county has the most Cabinet Members.

    Wiltshire has 1, though Chief Secretary to Treasury has sometimes been counted in the past, so 1-2.

    kle4 said:

    Someone else can work out which county has the most Cabinet Members.

    Wiltshire has 1, though Chief Secretary to Treasury has sometimes been counted in the past, so 1-2.

    Surrey has Hunt, Raab and Gove
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    edited October 2022
    kle4 said:

    Someone else can work out which county has the most Cabinet Members.

    Wiltshire has 1, though Chief Secretary to Treasury has sometimes been counted in the past, so 1-2.

    I think it's quite a while since a Gloucestershire MP was a member of the full cabinet.

    I'm sure there must have been at least one since Michael Hicks-Beach in 1902 but I can't think who it is.

    Edit - if we count Bristol as part of Gloucestershire I think it would actually be Tony Benn in 1970.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
  • kle4 said:

    Someone else can work out which county has the most Cabinet Members.

    Wiltshire has 1, though Chief Secretary to Treasury has sometimes been counted in the past, so 1-2.

    3 four-letter words in Surrey

    (Hunt, Gove, Raab)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,114

    Question for all of you: Sunak looks fit, and is said by Wiki to be a "cricket, tennis and horse racing enthusiast". Does he play any sport? Did he in the past? Does he have a regular exercise program? (He has a good build for distance running.)

    It would be fun if he could get out to Crawford and join George W. Bush for a little mountain bike riding.

    Peloton.

    Incidentally, the two instructors he is reported to follow are the same as mine!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,253

    @VeerleNouwens
    Dutch news reporting that the Dutch MFA has confirmed the apparent existence of two illegal Chinese police stations in the Netherlands - one in Rotterdam and one in Amsterdam - that have been in operation since 2018.


    https://twitter.com/VeerleNouwens/status/1584945033777758210

    Apparently there's one of these in Dublin too. The Chinese don't give a damn about anyone else's sovereignty.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Is Leon about? Russia starts its annual nuclear deterrent drills tomorrow and will be firing missiles 'capable of carrying nuclear warheads'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited October 2022
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    I don't follow.

    I just hadn't seen George spelled in that variant before, so it stood out, like if Chris was spell Qhris. Not aware of variations for Rishi or Sunak, though perhaps there are some.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited October 2022
    I give Head Boy Sunak a bare pass for this Cabinet.

    He’s done well to leave key figures largely in place, as I counselled yesterday. He’s brought back Gove.

    He’s brought in some decent new talent in the form of Keegan and Stride.

    I will - through my teeth - concede that Braverman was “worth a mass”.

    But why oh why bring back Raab? The man has no following inside our outside the party. Ditto Williamson.

    Raab - Braverman - Cleverly in top jobs is a bad look. None are truly serious appointments.

    It’s not clear if Rishi has a “Willy”, if he does it surely can’t be Raab who has no political antenna whatsoever.

    As Freedman notes, this looks like a Cabinet that wishes to resume the kulturkampf of the Johnson years while Rishi and Hunt can get on with the job of austerity.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    You can smell the eagerness in some quarters when reporting on 'hints' Farage might be back.
  • kle4 said:

    You can smell the eagerness in some quarters when reporting on 'hints' Farage might be back.

    I notice he has picked up using the "globalist" slur that is rather popular among some darker corners of the internet.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    You can smell the eagerness in some quarters when reporting on 'hints' Farage might be back.

    Go on Nige, theres a shit load of new Labour fan boys to mine. Storm the red wall with your siege engines and trebuchets
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    I don't follow.

    I just hadn't seen George spelled in that variant before, so it stood out, like if Chris was spell Qhris. Not aware of variations for Rishi or Sunak, though perhaps there are some.
    You didn't know that Tugendhat was of Austrian ancestry, and that Georg is the equivalent of George in the German language?

    In that case, I can only say that Wikipedia is your friend. It may help you to avoid sounding xenophobic.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,854
    This is novel.

    Meanwhile in Russia: since Putin's phony "denazification" never made any sense, now Russia's Security Council is absurdly calling for the "desatanization" of Ukraine.…
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1584930049480085505
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    I don't follow.

    I just hadn't seen George spelled in that variant before, so it stood out, like if Chris was spell Qhris. Not aware of variations for Rishi or Sunak, though perhaps there are some.
    Standard in German and Swedish.
  • Dammit, I think I'll open the champagne anyway.

    Anybody who simply wants better Government will be breaking open the Bolly.

    The improvement over what we have had for so long is immeasurable.

    Er, shouldn’t you reserve judgement beyond eight hours?
    Eight hours of solid government would be something of an improvement.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    I’d also note that Rishi has given very little thought to the Unionist part of his job. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish picks look like afterthoughts.
  • Chris said:

    This is about right as a summary, of both the thinking and the risks, isn't it?

    Sunak's deal with the right is "let me do the economics and you can have your culture war / immigration headlines". Problem is if liberal votes hate the authoritarianism and authoritarians hate the economics.....

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1584959336182599682?

    The problem though is that the economy needs some loosening of the immigration rules, which takes us back to the Truss Braverman bust up.
    Central paradox of the last few years.

    A lot of voters have gone for "improve prosperity by having fewer foreigners".

    It's not a stupid idea, ...
    Why do you think it's not stupid?
    I can see the logic. Very roughly "there's a more or less finite pie, and if there's less of them there will be more for me".

    There's lots that's mistaken about that thinking. And with the thinking that says that "high value" immigrants are OK but "low value" ones aren't. But there's a rationale there, so it's not fair to call it stupid.

    Unfortnately, explaining that a plausible idea is nonetheless wrong is blooming difficult.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,287
    edited October 2022
    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Development Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,906
    TOPPING said:

    My view as an ex-Cons Cameroonian-inclined former Tory voter.

    Fuck 'em.

    They have started off badly in the composition of the cabinet as more of the same but slightly different and great to have a South Asian in charge but they will have to work hard to win my vote back which, looking at the new Cabinet, they may well struggle to do.

    Thus speaks 1/35m th of the electorate.

    There are a fair few there I don't like, but Braverman is the only one in the current cabinet who makes voting Conservative a hard "no" from me.

    It looks to me like Sunak is going to govern by committee - a little from the left, a little from the right, a little from the centre. The trouble is that doesn't actually lead to a centrist government, just a lot of infighting. What I'd liked to have seen is a cabinet of genuine moderates.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    I’d also note that Rishi has given very little thought to the Unionist part of his job. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish picks look like afterthoughts.

    There have been suggestions (don't know if true) that the existing team had actually been making decent progress in Northern Ireland - if so, presumably made sense to keep in post.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Good appointment, though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    So of the 8 candidates for Conservative leader to replace Boris in the July-September contest, 7 of them are now in the Cabinet (or attending Cabinet), and the 8th was Prime Minister until today.

    That is a broad tent in fairness.

    In the 2019 contest 7 of the 10 (including the winner) were in Cabinet or attending Cabinet. So whatever problems the Tories have, excluding rivals in contests is not really one of them.
This discussion has been closed.