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Why being anti-lockdown might not be popular – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 15 in General
Why being anti-lockdown might not be popular – politicalbetting.com

Were the COVID lockdowns worth it? Rishi Sunak has complained that ministers weren't allowed to discuss the trade-offs, but for 62% of Britons (and 61% of Tory voters), the benefits were worth the costshttps://t.co/HayJNDPJB6 pic.twitter.com/41IcGhv4Yo

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,599
    E pluribus unum.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Shit, does that mean it will all happen again if it hyappens again? Can't bear it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    4th like Lewis on the grid.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,367
    You’ll never walk alone in trouncing an opponent by nine.


  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,157
    Hope you don't mind my indulgence but fpt

    Is woke the end of civilisation as we know it? I suspect not but any idea pushed to an extreme would probably be so. What is woke? It's essentially a modern form of egalitarianism. You can argue whether or not it really is about equality but that is what drives the true believers. As well as providing representation for the previously marginalised. We have been here before. What was the trade union movement about?

    Some people took it too the extreme of 'socialising the means of production' or 'to each according to ability to each according to need.' Was that civilisation ending when implemented? In some cases it probably was. If your only concern is equality and you have no interest in knowledge, freedom, scientific advancement, raising overall living standards, personal responsibility or a concept of justice separate to equality that may be where you end up.

    In the 1960s some radicals thought one solution revolution, sex equals rape, property is theft. Are these now all accepted norms?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    Sandpit said:

    4th like Lewis on the grid.

    Serves him right for being very woke. Max is very unwoke.

    Oops wrong thread!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497

    E pluribus unum.

    Has your US citizenship come through?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465

    You’ll never walk alone in trouncing an opponent by nine.


    Dundee United is slang for mental in Nigeria.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    I’m not sure people have grasped the damage done by the lockdowns yet. And perhaps they never will as everyone is now caught up in the whirl of the Ukrainian war and cost-of-living-crisis

    I will note this tho: a year back I barely knew anyone who was really skeptical about lockdowns. My mad but wise brother was one. A couple of journalist friends. A few on here

    Now I hear it everywhere. “The lockdowns were stupid and wrong”

    People are definitely more open to the idea we made a terrible error
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,162
    If hospitality businesses facing 250% or more increases in their energy costs, not the piffling 80% us poor individuals have to face, shut down, we'll all end up locked up in our own homes this winter wearing every cardigan we own at the same time.

    Anyway, I'd better go and do some work so that I can save up for a candle or two.....

    Laters.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    This is the latest in a long line of polls suggesting that Liz Truss should do the opposite of what she is doing in terms of spending packages versus tax cuts , lockdown, fracking, wokery, immigration etc. etc. etc.

    Now Truss is a political animal, or so everybody claims, so why does she disregard these polls?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,465
    Cyclefree said:

    If hospitality businesses facing 250% or more increases in their energy costs, not the piffling 80% us poor individuals have to face, shut down, we'll all end up locked up in our own homes this winter wearing every cardigan we own at the same time.

    Anyway, I'd better go and do some work so that I can save up for a candle or two.....

    Laters.

    Some of us individuals are regarded as businesses because of the nature of our domestic energy supply.
    Gas bill up 300%. And not 600% thanks only to my landlord.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    MISTY said:

    This is the latest in a long line of polls suggesting that Liz Truss should do the opposite of what she is doing in terms of spending packages versus tax cuts , lockdown, fracking, wokery, immigration etc. etc. etc.

    Now Truss is a political animal, or so everybody claims, so why does she disregard these polls?

    Is she locking us down?

    Bitch.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    edited August 28
    Leon said:

    I’m not sure people have grasped the damage done by the lockdowns yet. And perhaps they never will as everyone is now caught up in the whirl of the Ukrainian war and cost-of-living-crisis

    I will note this tho: a year back I barely knew anyone who was really skeptical about lockdowns. My mad but wise brother was one. A couple of journalist friends. A few on here

    Now I hear it everywhere. “The lockdowns were stupid and wrong”

    People are definitely more open to the idea we made a terrible error

    The weather in Penarth is overcast today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    edited August 28

    Sandpit said:

    4th like Lewis on the grid.

    Serves him right for being very woke. Max is very unwoke.

    Oops wrong thread!
    Max starts down in 14th, thanks to reliability penalties.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    4th like Lewis on the grid.

    Serves him right for being very woke. Max is very unwoke.

    Oops wrong thread!
    Max starts down in 14th, thanks to reliability penalties.
    He'll still win. Michael Massi rewarded Max for being unwoke last year.

    I have to add I am boycotting F1 after last year. Much happier watching CoffeeWalk, Samcrac, Salvage Rebuilds, Hoovies (thanks for the tip) and Nurburgring hits and near misses.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    edited August 28
    These questions are too black and white

    I’m increasingly skeptical about lockdowns 2 and 3. Not worth it. But we had to do some version of lockdown 1 because we had no idea what we were facing

    So how would I answer this question?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    Alonso you ****
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 5,046
    Great if you were an office worker, homeowner, no kids at home. A bit crap if you were in education or a young person who wanted to meet people who weren't your direct family.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,269
    EPG said:

    Great if you were an office worker, homeowner, no kids at home. A bit crap if you were in education or a young person who wanted to meet people who weren't your direct family.

    This. There were a considerable number of people demonstrating no empathy in various directions. “My right to party is total!”, “the world must stop for any risk” etc etc.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,205
    fpt

    If woke is a direct threat to western civilisation, then we do need it properly defined. The fact that most people don’t know what it is or believe, apparently wrongly, that it is the new “political correctness gone mad” (largely because that’s how it’s reported in the right wing media) shows that those who do see anti-woke as being the defining struggle of the 21st century need to start explaining it a lot better and disassociating it from right wing hobby horses like Hard Brexit, climate change denial, sending refugees to Rwanda and opposition to working from home. If they don’t the war will be lost. You can’t win a battle for civilisation by alienating 50% or more of the population.

    Put another way, if people like Jacob Rees Mogg, Laurence Fox and Nigel Farage are the people making your case, you’re in very bad trouble.

    @SouthamObserver
    The rhetorical game about what woke is and what it isn't is ultimately a empty distraction.
    I would read one of Douglas Murrays last two books (the 'madness of crowds' or 'the war on the west') and try and explain how he is wrong.
    I think Murray is over provocative and dramatic, and lacks solutions, but I find his diagnosis of the problem very convincing.


  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 2,876

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    He's winding us up. Don't bite.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited August 28

    In Spectator, which is the source for this discussion, Sunak is clear he's not saying lockdowns weren't the answer. His focus is that there was no serious discussion whatsoever of the downsides before it was imposed on millions of people.

    And the public should a) have been exposed to discussions about the pros and cons (i.e. treated like adults and not kids by the elite) b) and have not been so scared by the advertising campaigns warning of total doom.

    It also seems that minutes were doctored to remove sci opinions that differed from the main strategy of locking down. And as he points out it is all very odd when Whitty and Valance were initially against lockdowns.

    There seems to have been no attempt to do even a basic cost/benefit analysis.

    It is a shocking read about the lax way we are governed.

    This comes down to the fact that mainstream journalists in our country are not doing their jobs.

    They see themselves as propagandists and political warriors. We saw this in spades with COVID (why aren't you locking down harder?) and we can see it with the tory leadership campaign.

    All the big boy journalists clearly supported Sunak. When it became clear he might lose they tried to bounce Truss into Sunak's policies. In order to achieve this they wrote 'news' that was at best questionable and at worst frankly lies.

    If it is true that there is no spending package, just go back and read some of the reports in the broadsheets. Its pretty sobering stuff.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    edited August 28
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    There is an instinct on the part of some people to align themselves with authority/elites, even against their own interests, because being an 'insider who understands these things' is part of the way they like to perceive themselves.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 7,894
    The Conservative problem is that there is a chunk of the population who really, intensely hated lockdowns all along. Even among Leavers and Conservative voters, they're a minority, but they're loud. So they give a misleading impression.

    In addition it's a "we should just have" issue. L2 and L3 could have been avoided or shortened, but by competent pre-emption, not bloody-minded refusal to countenance them.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333

    You’ll never walk alone in trouncing an opponent by nine.


    Sob. That is even worse than the GP. Teams struggle to recover from results like that. It destroys confidence.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,067

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    Seemed like a pretty sensible post to me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,367
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Otoh this remainer can think of a government from whom they could do without any regulation whatsoever.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Otoh this remainer can think of a government from whom they could do without any regulation whatsoever.
    Wait. You’re a Remainer now? How?

    You wanted everyone to vote YES in 2014 which would have meant iScotland instantly leaving the EU

    I don’t think you’re a Remainer. More an opportunist and a hypocrite

  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Yes that’s fair. Also, Remainers are wankers
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 21,511
    MISTY said:

    This is the latest in a long line of polls suggesting that Liz Truss should do the opposite of what she is doing in terms of spending packages versus tax cuts , lockdown, fracking, wokery, immigration etc. etc. etc.

    Now Truss is a political animal, or so everybody claims, so why does she disregard these polls?

    Because she is right and the voters are wrong.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,599
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Here's the age splits.


  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Otoh this remainer can think of a government from whom they could do without any regulation whatsoever.
    Not even when they pay you £2,168 (and every other Scot) for the privilege?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,022

    MISTY said:

    This is the latest in a long line of polls suggesting that Liz Truss should do the opposite of what she is doing in terms of spending packages versus tax cuts , lockdown, fracking, wokery, immigration etc. etc. etc.

    Now Truss is a political animal, or so everybody claims, so why does she disregard these polls?

    Because she is right and the voters are wrong.
    Or is she just an idiot? 😈
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Here's the age splits.


    People with young kids - 25-49 - didn’t like lockdown so much. Makes sense

    Presumably it is younger families who voted Leave who are causing the Remainer/Leaver differential

    People like @BartholomewRoberts

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,367
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Otoh this remainer can think of a government from whom they could do without any regulation whatsoever.
    Wait. You’re a Remainer now? How?

    You wanted everyone to vote YES in 2014 which would have meant iScotland instantly leaving the EU

    I don’t think you’re a Remainer. More an opportunist and a hypocrite

    At least not a coward though.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    And on it goes


    “BBC tells its staff to watch out for 170 different forms of 'unconscious bias' which could fuel 'discomfort'... including discrimination based on a colleague's hobbies”


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11153049/BBC-tells-staff-watch-170-different-forms-unconscious-bias.html
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,367
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Otoh this remainer can think of a government from whom they could do without any regulation whatsoever.
    Not even when they pay you £2,168 (and every other Scot) for the privilege?
    I'm pretty sure that in any situation that you or your family had to be subsidised and/or dependent long term, you'd do all you could to change that situation. Odd that the UK seems to be the one massive exception.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,408
    Liz Truss into 1.03

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.04 Liz Truss 96%
    22 Rishi Sunak 5%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.03 Liz Truss 97%
    26 Rishi Sunak
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,651

    The Conservative problem is that there is a chunk of the population who really, intensely hated lockdowns all along. Even among Leavers and Conservative voters, they're a minority, but they're loud.

    Empty vessels make the most noise.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Here's the age splits.


    Less marked than the leave/remain split seemed to indicate.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    MISTY said:

    In Spectator, which is the source for this discussion, Sunak is clear he's not saying lockdowns weren't the answer. His focus is that there was no serious discussion whatsoever of the downsides before it was imposed on millions of people.

    And the public should a) have been exposed to discussions about the pros and cons (i.e. treated like adults and not kids by the elite) b) and have not been so scared by the advertising campaigns warning of total doom.

    It also seems that minutes were doctored to remove sci opinions that differed from the main strategy of locking down. And as he points out it is all very odd when Whitty and Valance were initially against lockdowns.

    There seems to have been no attempt to do even a basic cost/benefit analysis.

    It is a shocking read about the lax way we are governed.

    This comes down to the fact that mainstream journalists in our country are not doing their jobs.

    They see themselves as propagandists and political warriors. We saw this in spades with COVID (why aren't you locking down harder?) and we can see it with the tory leadership campaign.

    All the big boy journalists clearly supported Sunak. When it became clear he might lose they tried to bounce Truss into Sunak's policies. In order to achieve this they wrote 'news' that was at best questionable and at worst frankly lies.

    If it is true that there is no spending package, just go back and read some of the reports in the broadsheets. Its pretty sobering stuff.
    We have already had statements that funding will be available for 'the vulnerable', and that support will be made available for businesses. We've also had the proposal from energy firms themselves to defer some of the costs, which, combined with the tax cuts already announced, will make it survivable for most as a minimum. If that's all that's forthcoming, it'll be tougher now but with less of a hangover later. I am more concerned that we have significant announcements on building capacity for energy creation. I want the moratorium on fracking ended. I want projects sped up and red tape demonstrably eliminated. That will give far more hope to our entire population than a Government bung that we'll have to pay for down the line.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    In Spectator, which is the source for this discussion, Sunak is clear he's not saying lockdowns weren't the answer. His focus is that there was no serious discussion whatsoever of the downsides before it was imposed on millions of people.

    And the public should a) have been exposed to discussions about the pros and cons (i.e. treated like adults and not kids by the elite) b) and have not been so scared by the advertising campaigns warning of total doom.

    It also seems that minutes were doctored to remove sci opinions that differed from the main strategy of locking down. And as he points out it is all very odd when Whitty and Valance were initially against lockdowns.

    There seems to have been no attempt to do even a basic cost/benefit analysis.

    It is a shocking read about the lax way we are governed.

    This comes down to the fact that mainstream journalists in our country are not doing their jobs.

    They see themselves as propagandists and political warriors. We saw this in spades with COVID (why aren't you locking down harder?) and we can see it with the tory leadership campaign.

    All the big boy journalists clearly supported Sunak. When it became clear he might lose they tried to bounce Truss into Sunak's policies. In order to achieve this they wrote 'news' that was at best questionable and at worst frankly lies.

    If it is true that there is no spending package, just go back and read some of the reports in the broadsheets. Its pretty sobering stuff.
    We have already had statements that funding will be available for 'the vulnerable', and that support will be made available for businesses. We've also had the proposal from energy firms themselves to defer some of the costs, which, combined with the tax cuts already announced, will make it survivable for most as a minimum. If that's all that's forthcoming, it'll be tougher now but with less of a hangover later. I am more concerned that we have significant announcements on building capacity for energy creation. I want the moratorium on fracking ended. I want projects sped up and red tape demonstrably eliminated. That will give far more hope to our entire population than a Government bung that we'll have to pay for down the line.
    Agree with all this. I would slash business rates to help small businesses, pubs, chippies too. Even one year holiday for business rates...?

    Expensive, but...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,331
    edited August 28
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    Catastrophists. I have a two hardcore lockdown friends who are still wearing masks on the street (and they are not medically vulnerable). Also both hardcore remainers who were utterly convinced at all points between 2016 and 2021 that no deal was by far the most likely outcome. Even so far as to fall for the “boris johnson is deliberately trying to force a no-deal brexit” narrative that prevailed in the final weeks before the deal was signed.

    Both highly intelligent, highly educated, successful people. Just massive worriers. And worriers tend to confuse the idea of “worst outcome” with the idea of “most likely outcome”. That’s catastrophising in a nutshell.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    MISTY said:

    In Spectator, which is the source for this discussion, Sunak is clear he's not saying lockdowns weren't the answer. His focus is that there was no serious discussion whatsoever of the downsides before it was imposed on millions of people.

    And the public should a) have been exposed to discussions about the pros and cons (i.e. treated like adults and not kids by the elite) b) and have not been so scared by the advertising campaigns warning of total doom.

    It also seems that minutes were doctored to remove sci opinions that differed from the main strategy of locking down. And as he points out it is all very odd when Whitty and Valance were initially against lockdowns.

    There seems to have been no attempt to do even a basic cost/benefit analysis.

    It is a shocking read about the lax way we are governed.

    This comes down to the fact that mainstream journalists in our country are not doing their jobs.

    They see themselves as propagandists and political warriors. We saw this in spades with COVID (why aren't you locking down harder?) and we can see it with the tory leadership campaign.

    All the big boy journalists clearly supported Sunak. When it became clear he might lose they tried to bounce Truss into Sunak's policies. In order to achieve this they wrote 'news' that was at best questionable and at worst frankly lies.

    If it is true that there is no spending package, just go back and read some of the reports in the broadsheets. Its pretty sobering stuff.
    There’s already a £37bn spending package, that everyone appears to be ignoring.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-bills-support-scheme-explainer
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Sandpit said:

    Alonso you ****

    That was certainly not Alonso's fault.

    And he's very lucky his front suspension wasn't smashed.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,333

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    Otoh this remainer can think of a government from whom they could do without any regulation whatsoever.
    Not even when they pay you £2,168 (and every other Scot) for the privilege?
    I'm pretty sure that in any situation that you or your family had to be subsidised and/or dependent long term, you'd do all you could to change that situation. Odd that the UK seems to be the one massive exception.
    Well I personally pay way more than average tax and subsidise my fellow citizens, as I should for the privileges I get. But the idea that everyone who is dependent upon state benefits or services should take a near 20% cut is somewhat mad, frankly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,627
    MISTY said:

    MISTY said:

    In Spectator, which is the source for this discussion, Sunak is clear he's not saying lockdowns weren't the answer. His focus is that there was no serious discussion whatsoever of the downsides before it was imposed on millions of people.

    And the public should a) have been exposed to discussions about the pros and cons (i.e. treated like adults and not kids by the elite) b) and have not been so scared by the advertising campaigns warning of total doom.

    It also seems that minutes were doctored to remove sci opinions that differed from the main strategy of locking down. And as he points out it is all very odd when Whitty and Valance were initially against lockdowns.

    There seems to have been no attempt to do even a basic cost/benefit analysis.

    It is a shocking read about the lax way we are governed.

    This comes down to the fact that mainstream journalists in our country are not doing their jobs.

    They see themselves as propagandists and political warriors. We saw this in spades with COVID (why aren't you locking down harder?) and we can see it with the tory leadership campaign.

    All the big boy journalists clearly supported Sunak. When it became clear he might lose they tried to bounce Truss into Sunak's policies. In order to achieve this they wrote 'news' that was at best questionable and at worst frankly lies.

    If it is true that there is no spending package, just go back and read some of the reports in the broadsheets. Its pretty sobering stuff.
    We have already had statements that funding will be available for 'the vulnerable', and that support will be made available for businesses. We've also had the proposal from energy firms themselves to defer some of the costs, which, combined with the tax cuts already announced, will make it survivable for most as a minimum. If that's all that's forthcoming, it'll be tougher now but with less of a hangover later. I am more concerned that we have significant announcements on building capacity for energy creation. I want the moratorium on fracking ended. I want projects sped up and red tape demonstrably eliminated. That will give far more hope to our entire population than a Government bung that we'll have to pay for down the line.
    Agree with all this. I would slash business rates to help small businesses, pubs, chippies too. Even one year holiday for business rates...?

    Expensive, but...
    Sounds good, but energy creation is the key. In exchange for renewing their right to play their trade, get frackers signed up to supply gas exclusively to UK utility providers at below market rates. Anything they add is a bonus. The calculus has changed. Earth tremors and health concerns are now second order priorities - the first order is people not freezing their tits off.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,367
    DavidL said:

    You’ll never walk alone in trouncing an opponent by nine.


    Sob. That is even worse than the GP. Teams struggle to recover from results like that. It destroys confidence.
    I always forget whether you're an Arab or a Dee supporter. Now was the time to capitalize on that forgetfulness.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,790
    Icarus said:

    Sorry but we have moved on. Cost of electricity, gas and oil is what will define the Conservative government for the next 10 years - If Truss , assuming she wins, doesn't do something about it directly then the Conservative party is finished for a generation.

    I hope Truss is merely lying in order to win the votes of the membership, but I fear she may be dangerously stupid.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Anyway, so the cockup for Ferrari today involved a tear off.

    Well, it's different, I'll give them that.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,938

    Hope you don't mind my indulgence but fpt

    Is woke the end of civilisation as we know it? I suspect not but any idea pushed to an extreme would probably be so. What is woke? It's essentially a modern form of egalitarianism. You can argue whether or not it really is about equality but that is what drives the true believers. As well as providing representation for the previously marginalised. We have been here before. What was the trade union movement about?

    Some people took it too the extreme of 'socialising the means of production' or 'to each according to ability to each according to need.' Was that civilisation ending when implemented? In some cases it probably was. If your only concern is equality and you have no interest in knowledge, freedom, scientific advancement, raising overall living standards, personal responsibility or a concept of justice separate to equality that may be where you end up.

    In the 1960s some radicals thought one solution revolution, sex equals rape, property is theft. Are these now all accepted norms?

    Tut tut. Linking to the previous thread. @hyufd will be demanding capital punishment for such a crime. I'm ok with it though 😃
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,916
    This race really needs a safety car.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    edited August 28
    Sandpit said:

    This race really needs a safety car.

    You can't say it hasn't been rather entertaining though.

    About the only one who's done exactly what was expected at the time expected is George Russell.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 42,651
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    Catastrophists. I have a two hardcore lockdown friends who are still wearing masks on the street (
    I still wear a mask on public transport and in shops. I even wore a mask as far north as Kyle, Thurso and Wick last month :)
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Yes, that tends to be my experience as well, and it is the same highly educated cohort that's most vulnerable.

    I think the problem here is that highly educated people believe that their education makes them naturally more intelligent and therefore more likely to be right. Therefore any information that challenges their beliefs is likely to be discounted as wrong.

    For those of us geeky enough to have played Dungeons and Dragons as kids, it's like when you created a character and you had intelligence and wisdom as separate characteristics which were not linked. Highly educated people tend to be 'intelligent', not necessarily 'wise'.
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    Catastrophists. I have a two hardcore lockdown friends who are still wearing masks on the street (and they are not medically vulnerable). Also both hardcore remainers who were utterly convinced at all points between 2016 and 2021 that no deal was by far the most likely outcome. Even so far as to fall for the “boris johnson is deliberately trying to force a no-deal brexit” narrative that prevailed in the final weeks before the deal was signed.

    Both highly intelligent, highly educated, successful people. Just massive worriers. And worriers tend to confuse the idea of “worst outcome” with the idea of “most likely outcome”. That’s catastrophising in a nutshell.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    darkage said:

    fpt

    If woke is a direct threat to western civilisation, then we do need it properly defined. The fact that most people don’t know what it is or believe, apparently wrongly, that it is the new “political correctness gone mad” (largely because that’s how it’s reported in the right wing media) shows that those who do see anti-woke as being the defining struggle of the 21st century need to start explaining it a lot better and disassociating it from right wing hobby horses like Hard Brexit, climate change denial, sending refugees to Rwanda and opposition to working from home. If they don’t the war will be lost. You can’t win a battle for civilisation by alienating 50% or more of the population.

    Put another way, if people like Jacob Rees Mogg, Laurence Fox and Nigel Farage are the people making your case, you’re in very bad trouble.

    @SouthamObserver
    The rhetorical game about what woke is and what it isn't is ultimately a empty distraction.
    I would read one of Douglas Murrays last two books (the 'madness of crowds' or 'the war on the west') and try and explain how he is wrong.
    I think Murray is over provocative and dramatic, and lacks solutions, but I find his diagnosis of the problem very convincing.


    If he needs a comparison, I'd ask @SouthamObserver to define Fascism. I guess he will struggle, as political philosophers have always struggled, because doing this is notoriously difficult. There is no single founding text of Fascism, no agreed corpus of rules, beliefs, tenets. And the label "Fascist" has been applied to multiple different things, from Islamofascism to the modern Tory Party

    And yet, even though it is undefined, I am sure @SouthamObserver would want us to fight Fascism. Read across for the studied enigma that is Wokeness. Indeed part of the reason Wokeness is so insidious and menacing is that it comes in multiple guises, from "decolonisation" to Extreme Trans Rights. It is a hydra
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,967
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    This race really needs a safety car.

    You can't say it hasn't been rather entertaining though.

    About the only one who's done exactly what was expected at the time expected is George Russell.
    Spa has been ruined as a dry race for a number of years because of the power of the DRS down the Kemmel straight. It's hard to get excited by those overtakes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    Sorry, paragraph 1, I bit!

    ...oh wait, paragraph 2 you did actually mean it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    Fair play to Hamilton, he put his hands up to that one. Not that he had much to say, but equally he must have been pretty gutted with his carelessness.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    edited August 28
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    Seemed like a pretty sensible post to me.
    If the cap fits, wear it.
  • Sandpit said:

    MISTY said:

    In Spectator, which is the source for this discussion, Sunak is clear he's not saying lockdowns weren't the answer. His focus is that there was no serious discussion whatsoever of the downsides before it was imposed on millions of people.

    And the public should a) have been exposed to discussions about the pros and cons (i.e. treated like adults and not kids by the elite) b) and have not been so scared by the advertising campaigns warning of total doom.

    It also seems that minutes were doctored to remove sci opinions that differed from the main strategy of locking down. And as he points out it is all very odd when Whitty and Valance were initially against lockdowns.

    There seems to have been no attempt to do even a basic cost/benefit analysis.

    It is a shocking read about the lax way we are governed.

    This comes down to the fact that mainstream journalists in our country are not doing their jobs.

    They see themselves as propagandists and political warriors. We saw this in spades with COVID (why aren't you locking down harder?) and we can see it with the tory leadership campaign.

    All the big boy journalists clearly supported Sunak. When it became clear he might lose they tried to bounce Truss into Sunak's policies. In order to achieve this they wrote 'news' that was at best questionable and at worst frankly lies.

    If it is true that there is no spending package, just go back and read some of the reports in the broadsheets. Its pretty sobering stuff.
    There’s already a £37bn spending package, that everyone appears to be ignoring.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-bills-support-scheme-explainer
    The Greatest Showman put it right, when it comes to support it be "never enough".

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uztIUUh5-WE
  • kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    It is interesting the correlation between Leavers and Anti-Lockdowners.

    My take - again as a generality and with no aspersion cast on any specific individuals either on here or out there - is slightly different to David's and is as follows:

    In order to conclude that the lockdowns - including even the 1st one - were unnecessary it helps enormously to believe that Covid was not the virus it was, was not spreading in the way that it was, was not as dangerous to people as it was.

    Leavers, on the whole, are more likely than Remainers to inhabit fantasies such as this.
    Covid was the virus it was.

    A much more serious than cold or flu virus that ~99% of people would survive and ~1% would die from.

    It may be callous, but 2 years of liberty and our kids education is worth more than the lives of 1% of the population when more than 1% of the population dies every year anyway.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    It is interesting the correlation between Leavers and Anti-Lockdowners.

    My take - again as a generality and with no aspersion cast on any specific individuals either on here or out there - is slightly different to David's and is as follows:

    In order to conclude that the lockdowns - including even the 1st one - were unnecessary it helps enormously to believe that Covid was not the virus it was, was not spreading in the way that it was, was not as dangerous to people as it was.

    Leavers, on the whole, are more likely than Remainers to inhabit fantasies such as this.
    ... which doesn't explain the correlation between hardcore Remoaners and ultra-lockdowners on Twitter

    When Sunak made his "we gave the boffins too much power" speech, it was exactly the usual Remainer suspects who jumped on him
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    It is interesting the correlation between Leavers and Anti-Lockdowners.

    My take - again as a generality and with no aspersion cast on any specific individuals either on here or out there - is slightly different to David's and is as follows:

    In order to conclude that the lockdowns - including even the 1st one - were unnecessary it helps enormously to believe that Covid was not the virus it was, was not spreading in the way that it was, was not as dangerous to people as it was.

    Leavers, on the whole, are more likely than Remainers to inhabit fantasies such as this.
    ... which doesn't explain the correlation between hardcore Remoaners and ultra-lockdowners on Twitter

    When Sunak made his "we gave the boffins too much power" speech, it was exactly the usual Remainer suspects who jumped on him
    Twitter is not Britain #248915689
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,931

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    It is interesting the correlation between Leavers and Anti-Lockdowners.

    My take - again as a generality and with no aspersion cast on any specific individuals either on here or out there - is slightly different to David's and is as follows:

    In order to conclude that the lockdowns - including even the 1st one - were unnecessary it helps enormously to believe that Covid was not the virus it was, was not spreading in the way that it was, was not as dangerous to people as it was.

    Leavers, on the whole, are more likely than Remainers to inhabit fantasies such as this.
    ... which doesn't explain the correlation between hardcore Remoaners and ultra-lockdowners on Twitter

    When Sunak made his "we gave the boffins too much power" speech, it was exactly the usual Remainer suspects who jumped on him
    Twitter is not Britain #248915689
    Except, in this case, it is

    The perception that Remainers are considerably more lockdowny than Leavers, which one might gain from looking at Twitter, is confirmed by the polls in the threader

    I suspect there are multiple explanations at work: @kinabalu is probably right to an extent, but so is @DavidL

    Also Remoaners are richer and "better educated" (as they never cease to tell us) so they are more likely to live in big houses with gardens. Lockdown is simply easier for them, the smug twats. HAHAHAHAHAH we Brexited. LOL Suck it up LOSERS

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    *coughs politely*
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921
    edited August 28
    FFS Ferrari, how on earth do you make so many avoidable stupid errors in pit strategy?

    Edit - no harm done in the end, but really!
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,677
    ydoethur said:

    FFS Ferrari, how on earth do you make so many avoidable stupid errors in pit strategy?

    Edit - no harm done in the end, but really!

    Just the 5 second penalty for speeding in the pit lane
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,679
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: so... Ferrari.

    I think some psychology students after doctorates could have an interesting subject to explore here.

    As an aside, both of my Perez bets came off as the 26 was each way. And the unusually short Sainz bet did. Writing up the wibble now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    ydoethur said:

    FFS Ferrari, how on earth do you make so many avoidable stupid errors in pit strategy?

    Edit - no harm done in the end, but really!

    Just the 5 second penalty for speeding in the pit lane
    So my edit was wrong, there was harm done!

    This is just beyond ridiculous.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 18,497
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Look at that difference between Remain and Leave. Remainers probably want us locked down forever. What is wrong with them?

    Is that the dumbest post of the day? It comes so easily to you, and I've been trying so hard all day!
    I was being provocative. It seems to have worked


    But it is an intriguing difference. So many ultra lockdowners on Twitter are also angry Remoaners. Why?
    It's odd. Using generalities to their limit leavers were older and more vulnerable to Covid. Remainers were younger and less so. Lockdown had much more negative effects on younger people in work. The effect on the retired was much less severe. And yet there is a clear difference.

    I would tentatively suggest that remainers tend to a more pro government position. They like more regulation, whether from the EU or their own government. They don't trust others to behave as sensibly as they consider they do themselves.
    It is interesting the correlation between Leavers and Anti-Lockdowners.

    My take - again as a generality and with no aspersion cast on any specific individuals either on here or out there - is slightly different to David's and is as follows:

    In order to conclude that the lockdowns - including even the 1st one - were unnecessary it helps enormously to believe that Covid was not the virus it was, was not spreading in the way that it was, was not as dangerous to people as it was.

    Leavers, on the whole, are more likely than Remainers to inhabit fantasies such as this.
    ... which doesn't explain the correlation between hardcore Remoaners and ultra-lockdowners on Twitter

    When Sunak made his "we gave the boffins too much power" speech, it was exactly the usual Remainer suspects who jumped on him
    Twitter is not Britain #248915689
    Except, in this case, it is

    The perception that Remainers are considerably more lockdowny than Leavers, which one might gain from looking at Twitter, is confirmed by the polls in the threader

    I suspect there are multiple explanations at work: @kinabalu is probably right to an extent, but so is @DavidL

    Also Remoaners are richer and "better educated" (as they never cease to tell us) so they are more likely to live in big houses with gardens. Lockdown is simply easier for them, the smug twats. HAHAHAHAHAH we Brexited. LOL Suck it up LOSERS

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    *coughs politely*
    When you put on the black shirt you become a full throated troll.

    PB is not a pleasant place to be when you try to drum up an online Nuremberg Rally.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,921

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    F1: so... Ferrari.

    I think some psychology students after doctorates could have an interesting subject to explore here.

    As an aside, both of my Perez bets came off as the 26 was each way. And the unusually short Sainz bet did. Writing up the wibble now.

    Do we know for sure that Iñaki Rueda isn't Dominic Cummings in disguise?

    He seems to have the same total inability to do simple things correctly, coupled with mind bending arrogance that leads to extraordinary mistakes a fairly bright five year old would be embarrassed by.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,677
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FFS Ferrari, how on earth do you make so many avoidable stupid errors in pit strategy?

    Edit - no harm done in the end, but really!

    Just the 5 second penalty for speeding in the pit lane
    So my edit was wrong, there was harm done!

    This is just beyond ridiculous.
    Time to sack the the Ferrari strategists
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,786
    On Aug. 18, Ukraine’s Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation purchased a Finnish-produced ICEYE satellite for the country’s armed forces.

    The charity made the purchase with the $17 million initially fundraised by Ukrainians to buy Bayraktar attack drones. The Turkish manufacturer, Baykar, refused to take the money and instead offered three drones to Ukraine for free.

    According to an agreement with ICEYE, Ukraine gets one of the company’s 21 satellites and one-year access to imagery collected by other ICEYE spacecraft. Ukraine will remain the sole owner of the satellite for as long as it remains in orbit, and if the satellite fails, the company is obliged to provide Ukraine with a new one.

    https://api.kyivindependent.com/storage/1-2-1661595041Bl3Gc-1080x1080.jpg
    The image of the Crimean Bridge that connects mainland Russia with Russian-occupied Crimea made with a Finnish-produced satellite ICEYE.

    That bridge is a vulnerable point for the maintenance of Russia's hold on Crimea.

    https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-charity-buys-satellite-for-the-army-how-will-it-help-fight-against-russia
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,967

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    FFS Ferrari, how on earth do you make so many avoidable stupid errors in pit strategy?

    Edit - no harm done in the end, but really!

    Just the 5 second penalty for speeding in the pit lane
    So my edit was wrong, there was harm done!

    This is just beyond ridiculous.
    Time to sack the the Ferrari strategists
    Yes, but when that fails what's plan D?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,679
    F1: concise rundown of a dominant, but not thrilling, race win:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2022.html
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,677

    F1: concise rundown of a dominant, but not thrilling, race win:
    https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2022/08/belgium-post-race-analysis-2022.html

    It was a pretty awful race. Clear the technical directive had the opposite effect - hampered Ferrari, made Red Bull more dominant
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,679
    Mr. Abode, not the first time. There was one season... I think it was a later Vettel-Red Bull year when it was pretty close between him and Hamilton then the rules were changed mid-season (tyres, maybe) and they won a ton and made it a procession.

    Mercedes had some good pace, though.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 1,331
    From The Times today:


  • kjhkjh Posts: 7,938
    geoffw said:

    On Aug. 18, Ukraine’s Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation purchased a Finnish-produced ICEYE satellite for the country’s armed forces.

    The charity made the purchase with the $17 million initially fundraised by Ukrainians to buy Bayraktar attack drones. The Turkish manufacturer, Baykar, refused to take the money and instead offered three drones to Ukraine for free.

    According to an agreement with ICEYE, Ukraine gets one of the company’s 21 satellites and one-year access to imagery collected by other ICEYE spacecraft. Ukraine will remain the sole owner of the satellite for as long as it remains in orbit, and if the satellite fails, the company is obliged to provide Ukraine with a new one.

    https://api.kyivindependent.com/storage/1-2-1661595041Bl3Gc-1080x1080.jpg
    The image of the Crimean Bridge that connects mainland Russia with Russian-occupied Crimea made with a Finnish-produced satellite ICEYE.

    That bridge is a vulnerable point for the maintenance of Russia's hold on Crimea.

    https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-charity-buys-satellite-for-the-army-how-will-it-help-fight-against-russia

    If that bridge is still intact, one has to wonder why or how?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,677

    Mr. Abode, not the first time. There was one season... I think it was a later Vettel-Red Bull year when it was pretty close between him and Hamilton then the rules were changed mid-season (tyres, maybe) and they won a ton and made it a procession.

    Mercedes had some good pace, though.

    Yes, agreed. Merc need to focus on 2023 though, presumably by ditching their concept
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,269
    geoffw said:

    On Aug. 18, Ukraine’s Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation purchased a Finnish-produced ICEYE satellite for the country’s armed forces.

    The charity made the purchase with the $17 million initially fundraised by Ukrainians to buy Bayraktar attack drones. The Turkish manufacturer, Baykar, refused to take the money and instead offered three drones to Ukraine for free.

    According to an agreement with ICEYE, Ukraine gets one of the company’s 21 satellites and one-year access to imagery collected by other ICEYE spacecraft. Ukraine will remain the sole owner of the satellite for as long as it remains in orbit, and if the satellite fails, the company is obliged to provide Ukraine with a new one.

    https://api.kyivindependent.com/storage/1-2-1661595041Bl3Gc-1080x1080.jpg
    The image of the Crimean Bridge that connects mainland Russia with Russian-occupied Crimea made with a Finnish-produced satellite ICEYE.

    That bridge is a vulnerable point for the maintenance of Russia's hold on Crimea.

    https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-charity-buys-satellite-for-the-army-how-will-it-help-fight-against-russia

    Sanctions have largely cut Russia off buying commercial imagery.

    They have some military optical spy sats, but the coverage that the commercial systems give is much broader. The military systems tend to super high resolution of a small area, the commercial to wider areas, with frequents repeat passes…
  • ChrisChris Posts: 8,891
    Populist anti-science statements deserve contempt.
  • houndtanghoundtang Posts: 451
    Leon said:

    I’m not sure people have grasped the damage done by the lockdowns yet. And perhaps they never will as everyone is now caught up in the whirl of the Ukrainian war and cost-of-living-crisis

    I will note this tho: a year back I barely knew anyone who was really skeptical about lockdowns. My mad but wise brother was one. A couple of journalist friends. A few on here

    Now I hear it everywhere. “The lockdowns were stupid and wrong”

    People are definitely more open to the idea we made a terrible error

    I was against the lockdown from the start, for personal reasons (my father, to my eternal regret, was in a care home and I was unable to visit him for the last four weeks of his life). But it was obvious in March 2020 that even a short lockdown would cause immense damage to mental and physical health and to the economy. As a teacher I saw first hand evidence of the effect on young people and their education, and the 'cost of living crisis' has considerably more to do with the deranged inflation ramping policies enacted over the last two and a half years than it does with Ukraine. I admit I was astonished that people went along with the rules, but then the fear mongering - admitted by Sunak - was despicable, and the threat grossly exaggerated. Lockdown was evil. There is no other word suitable.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    Chris said:

    Populist anti-science statements deserve contempt.

    Or as your view is also known, "Burn the witches".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,269

    carnforth said:

    From The Times today:


    Looks awesome. Down in Devon with our classic mini, and a fair number of land based ones around. I like them. They don’t disrupt farming below them, are graceful and are helping to reach net zero. No idea why anyone would be against, potentially national parks excepted.
    They aren’t going to put anything close to that size on land. Which is why offshore is the future for wind

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,687

    carnforth said:

    From The Times today:


    Looks awesome. Down in Devon with our classic mini, and a fair number of land based ones around. I like them. They don’t disrupt farming below them, are graceful and are helping to reach net zero. No idea why anyone would be against, potentially national parks excepted.
    They aren’t going to put anything close to that size on land. Which is why offshore is the future for wind

    Absolutely. And right too, just that I don’t get the objections to existing land based schemes.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,488
    kjh said:

    geoffw said:

    On Aug. 18, Ukraine’s Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation purchased a Finnish-produced ICEYE satellite for the country’s armed forces.

    The charity made the purchase with the $17 million initially fundraised by Ukrainians to buy Bayraktar attack drones. The Turkish manufacturer, Baykar, refused to take the money and instead offered three drones to Ukraine for free.

    According to an agreement with ICEYE, Ukraine gets one of the company’s 21 satellites and one-year access to imagery collected by other ICEYE spacecraft. Ukraine will remain the sole owner of the satellite for as long as it remains in orbit, and if the satellite fails, the company is obliged to provide Ukraine with a new one.

    https://api.kyivindependent.com/storage/1-2-1661595041Bl3Gc-1080x1080.jpg
    The image of the Crimean Bridge that connects mainland Russia with Russian-occupied Crimea made with a Finnish-produced satellite ICEYE.

    That bridge is a vulnerable point for the maintenance of Russia's hold on Crimea.

    https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-charity-buys-satellite-for-the-army-how-will-it-help-fight-against-russia

    If that bridge is still intact, one has to wonder why or how?
    Bridges are hard targets. The USAF and USN flew 880 sorties and had 11 aircraft shot down trying and failing to drop the Thanh Hoa bridge in Vietnam.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,786

    carnforth said:

    From The Times today:


    Looks awesome. Down in Devon with our classic mini, and a fair number of land based ones around. I like them. They don’t disrupt farming below them, are graceful and are helping to reach net zero. No idea why anyone would be against, potentially national parks excepted.
    Birds

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157
    kjh said:

    geoffw said:

    On Aug. 18, Ukraine’s Serhiy Prytula Charity Foundation purchased a Finnish-produced ICEYE satellite for the country’s armed forces.

    The charity made the purchase with the $17 million initially fundraised by Ukrainians to buy Bayraktar attack drones. The Turkish manufacturer, Baykar, refused to take the money and instead offered three drones to Ukraine for free.

    According to an agreement with ICEYE, Ukraine gets one of the company’s 21 satellites and one-year access to imagery collected by other ICEYE spacecraft. Ukraine will remain the sole owner of the satellite for as long as it remains in orbit, and if the satellite fails, the company is obliged to provide Ukraine with a new one.

    https://api.kyivindependent.com/storage/1-2-1661595041Bl3Gc-1080x1080.jpg
    The image of the Crimean Bridge that connects mainland Russia with Russian-occupied Crimea made with a Finnish-produced satellite ICEYE.

    That bridge is a vulnerable point for the maintenance of Russia's hold on Crimea.

    https://kyivindependent.com/national/ukrainian-charity-buys-satellite-for-the-army-how-will-it-help-fight-against-russia

    If that bridge is still intact, one has to wonder why or how?
    This is presumably the Kerch Bridge, which some Ukrainian statements have described as an illegal structure and which, it seems highly likely, they would wish to destroy. The issue being that it's very large and a very long way behind the front line. I assume that the Ukrainian Armed Forces lack munitions of sufficient range and power to blow it up, but stand to be corrected by the course of events.
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