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PM Truss’s first test – the energy cost crisis – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    Yet again, are the Tories admitting they have given up on their new voters or are they just thick?

    The Red Wall DOES NOT want Thatcher

    Its genuinely saddening when actual elected MPs clearly operate purely on nostalgia blinkers. They remember being a young man or woman or intermediate when Thatcher or Foot or whoever was sparking their interest in politics and they think the answer to everything is to redo that.
    Where's Will Self when you need him.
    I dont think the situation has ever arisen before.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    FF43 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Since everyone's doing it, here's my proposed solution for the mess we're in.

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1559080470024970241

    Realise the issue is at supply level, UK energy demand is going to grow - and it should; energy use and standard of living go hand in hand. Couple this with the fact we need the UK's population to grow anyway to function better as an economy and well...
    Commission the MET office to look into the availability of all natural power sources - wind, solar, tidal that would produce the remainder of almost always 45 GW available power that needs filling with the current CCGT burn. Add in nuclear, gas and heck even a bit of coal
    As needs must. Solve for the lowest cost to the UK consumer, both business and domestic going forward.
    It's basically a multivariate linear programming optimisation problem that would churn out an answer.
    Oh batteries would be included as well - anyway solve this equation, then set out a plan to implement the solution paid for with long term bonds.
    As for the current bills whilst this is being built ?
    First up no help for higher rate taxpayers - taper out the support from 40k -> 50k. More help for 20k and UC. Gov't loans available for energy intensive small bus so they don't go under. A few more checks than Rishi's scheme.
    There'd likely be gaps with the wind use required - just fill this with gas - CCGT does have a place but there's no way on God's green earth it should be 60% of generation.

    OTOH an energy cap is a simpler sell.

    Switching supplies, as you mention is largely happening, but it is a medium to long term switch. The short term problem is supply, demand and cost and there is no cheap way to deal with it.
    It's not happening nearly quickly enough. Compare and contrast whatever it is we're pissing money up the wall on compared to something like https://www.offshorewind.biz/2022/05/11/norway-launches-30-gw-by-2040-offshore-wind-investment-plan/
    We face two problems and they need to be dealt with separately.

    Problem 1 is a short term one of managing without Russian supplied fossil fuels, which means bring in every immediately available energy source, regardless of cost. At the same time we need to reduce demand. Also people need to be helped through the transition of extreme high prices.

    Problem 2 is a medium to long term one of bringing in renewables as cheap and reliable alternatives to fossil fuels

    Additional gas supplies and coal for problem 1; wind, solar and energy storage for problem 2.

    Incidentally nuclear doesn't address either of these two problems. It's neither immediately available, nor cheap and reliable,
    Tidal, as well.
    Build a tidal pool demonstrator in Swansea bay.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Glad to see you support a move of office type jobs to work from home. That way there is no need for big offices mainly in the south east, people can live where they want, so no need to concrete over southern england etc etc
    Absolutely, WFH is a perfectly valid alternative for a lot of people to commuting via rail. As too is driving.

    If more people WFH then that leaves the roads clearer for people who do need to drive as they can't be WFH, win/win.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226

    kyf_100 said:

    OK, so serious question.

    If energy prices are rising because there isn't enough gas to go round (due to Russia witholding supply) - if every country in Europe caps their energy prices at current levels, aren't we left with the problem that

    - Demand for energy won't drop at all as people will continue to consume the same amount of energy at the fixed lower price
    - Energy prices (for those governments paying the subsidy) will be a lot higher than they otherwise would be due to this extra demand created by artificially low prices for consumers
    - If, as was stated last night, supply has dropped 10% (due to Russia withholding supplies), surely that 10% drop in supply has to be felt somewhere (e.g. by the countries who can't afford to bid insane amounts for gas)

    tl;dr if all the rich countries of Europe subsidise energy prices for their consumers, what happens when demand doesn't drop (but supply already has)?

    Good point. But not all countries are going to be able to afford to do this, or want to do this.
    The sweet spot is to have prices increase enough to encourage energy efficiency without cutting back on essential usage.

    If there isn't a steep reduction on chavvy lighted decorations this Christmas then there will be plenty of people with money to spend.
    That would be sad. I love a bit of festive cheer.
    "The sweet spot is to have prices increase enough to encourage energy efficiency without cutting back on essential usage."

    Excellent point.
  • Options


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    1h
    Spending taxpayer money to shield average (not poor) households from the impacts of inflation is the short route to economic ruin.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1559081599370756100

    Andrew's proposals put people homeless on the street.
    [SARCASM]
    Well, that would reduce demand for houses, gently deflating the house price bubble without concreting over Buckinghamshire. Win-win.

  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    Here we go again.

    You'd think if railways could work privatised, any country in Europe would have tried it. But yet neither the Swiss or Germans or anyone else, has.

    Perhaps you should get away from blind ideology and actually look at what works in the world and what doesn't.

    BT was in the end a successful privatisation when Ofcom grew some bollocks and made Openreach actually useful. Clearly owning British Airways 100% would have been a waste of time.

    But some things are better privatised and others aren't. You are too blind to see that.

    Why not take it to its logical extreme and privatise the army?
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744

    'When it comes to this energy crisis you lot are taking a kicking, Keir Starmer comes along and solves the problem overnight.'

    @NickFerrariLBC skewers Tory MP Brandon Lewis over the cost of living crisis.

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1559072038018600963

    Possibly Starmer's greatest political stroke so far

    Hadnt this been the LDs policy for a couple of weeks already? They are really struggling to connect.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories now seem to be attacking their own policy to help people with their energy bills.

    Not that strange, they are about to choose as leader someone who thinks every government she has served in, including the one led by Boris which she thinks it was a mistake to remove, has been fundamentally failing in its economic policies to the point we need to try radical new ideas.
    So rather like Mrs Thatcher, then.
    It's one thing to do that in opposition. The electoral defeat gives you an excuse, and the next election gives the public a say.

    Rather more questionable to do it while in government.
    Precisely. It's not the u turning, it's that she doesn't think Boris should have gone but is lambasting fundamental policies of his. It stretches the credibility of collective responsibility that she thinks doing the completely wrong thing was best, and she'd still be doing that if she had her preferred option and he had remained as PM.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    edited August 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    One reason we can't is because of the very highly regulated nature of railways. For example, the Central Wales Railway (three one-car diesel trains a day) in law has to meet the same minimum specifications as the West Coast mainline (16 trains of various types and speeds per hour).*

    There would be plenty of scope to reduce subsidies if we reduced the regulatory framework to make lines cheaper to run, but that would come with increased risks of accidents, which have been nearly eliminated on the current network.

    And, I might add, railway staff would be opposed. The current strikes are about safe working practices as much as they are pay.

    If roads were regulated as highly as railways, they would be about five times as expensive to use. Imagine if you were only allowed to have buses on them, and the drivers had to be trained to that road, and they had to wait for signals to pass before they could move on, and every few days the road had to be inspected for damage...you can imagine that would be an end to private motoring. As indeed the Board of Trade regulations from 1822 onwards increasingly put an end to private rail use.

    *In practice, it doesn't. It has block signalling tokens, for example, where the WCML uses a computerised version. But they're covered by the same regulations.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories now seem to be attacking their own policy to help people with their energy bills.

    Not that strange, they are about to choose as leader someone who thinks every government she has served in, including the one led by Boris which she thinks it was a mistake to remove, has been fundamentally failing in its economic policies to the point we need to try radical new ideas.
    So rather like Mrs Thatcher, then.
    It's one thing to do that in opposition. The electoral defeat gives you an excuse, and the next election gives the public a say.

    Rather more questionable to do it while in government.
    Especially when it is about a month before the inevitable u-turn and you go further down the existing policy that you are currently trashing. Bonkers.
    Boris pushed his MPs too far in part by forcing them to defend things then undercutting them. I think with a big majority MPs prefer to take the hit and push on through sometimes, rather than look indecisive. Its that tricky line in u turning the right amount.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999
    edited August 2022

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

  • Options
    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1559101017886695429

    Shadow Chancellor @RachelReevesMP in today’s @TheSun: We are in the midst of a national emergency. Labour would stop energy prices rising this winter…
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    Here we go again.

    You'd think if railways could work privatised, any country in Europe would have tried it. But yet neither the Swiss or Germans or anyone else, has.

    Perhaps you should get away from blind ideology and actually look at what works in the world and what doesn't.

    BT was in the end a successful privatisation when Ofcom grew some bollocks and made Openreach actually useful. Clearly owning British Airways 100% would have been a waste of time.

    But some things are better privatised and others aren't. You are too blind to see that.

    Why not take it to its logical extreme and privatise the army?
    Why are you such a Little Europeaner? Our geography and population density in England is far closer to Honshu, Japan (Japan's equivalent of England) than it is Germany.

    Rail subsidies were abolished in Honshu and the result is now a system whereby more commuters travel by rail than travel by car.

    You complain that the status quo doesn't work but then you sit there with your ideological blinkers on refusing any changes by look at another densely populated island nation whose population density is almost identical to our own who have a system that is working in a far superior manner to our own.

    The army being state owned serves a purpose, the army exists to serve the state. Railways being state owned does not, because railways should exist to serve the commuter not the whims of politicians.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540
    DavidL said:

    My 5 point plan:

    (1) proceed with Truss's idea of zero rating energy and suspending the green levies. It is crazy to make the curent pricing worse.

    (2) Ensure that those on UC get a sufficient rise in benefits to cover the whole additional cost. Those who are not have to survive on the help Sunak has already given.

    (3) Invest seriously in insulation to cut demand.

    (4) Further time limited tax breaks to accelerate alternative supplies, especially wind, tidal and solar.

    (5) Reverse the idiotic change in the cap to 3 months but have a borrowing facility available if energy suppliers are trapped supplying fuel below cost to maintain their economic viability.

    The impact of (2) would be that households on UC would be better off than those who fall just short of the UC criteria and therefore have to pay their bills in full, wouldn't it? That would cause great consternation among the latter. Unless you significantly adjusted the eligibility for UC, that is.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    I'm not convinced by these experts. I think we'll be damn lucky if we get a combination rather than a choice of one.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1559101017886695429

    Shadow Chancellor @RachelReevesMP in today’s @TheSun: We are in the midst of a national emergency. Labour would stop energy prices rising this winter…

    They wouldn't - because they are not in power. But all they need to do is this:
    Repeat: "Labour would stop energy price rises"
    Challenge: "Why won't the Tories stop energy price rises?"
    Repeat: "The Tories don't care"

    Labour may or may not have a viable plan. But there is a plan. Which makes a bold statement that latches onto people's needs. So the Tories need their own plan and actually deliver. Just attacking the Labour plan as Brownite, or uncosted, or philosophically wrong or whatever won't help them.
  • Options
    pm215pm215 Posts: 936

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    My guess is that they're not going to play it by "straying into antisemitism"...
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,718
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

    Western allies prefer Ukraine to fight Russia so they don't have to do it themselves.

    Makes sense. It presumes 1. Ukraine is doing a good job and 2. They need support.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    edited August 2022
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    kle4 said:

    The Tories now seem to be attacking their own policy to help people with their energy bills.

    Not that strange, they are about to choose as leader someone who thinks every government she has served in, including the one led by Boris which she thinks it was a mistake to remove, has been fundamentally failing in its economic policies to the point we need to try radical new ideas.
    So rather like Mrs Thatcher, then.
    It's one thing to do that in opposition. The electoral defeat gives you an excuse, and the next election gives the public a say.

    Rather more questionable to do it while in government.
    Especially when it is about a month before the inevitable u-turn and you go further down the existing policy that you are currently trashing. Bonkers.
    Boris pushed his MPs too far in part by forcing them to defend things then undercutting them. I think with a big majority MPs prefer to take the hit and push on through sometimes, rather than look indecisive. Its that tricky line in u turning the right amount.
    The Tories have lost the plot. It is that simple.

    It probably did not help that any Tory with vision, brains or backbone stood up to Boris and was promptly unwhipped and deselected. Many on here said at the time that Boris was disposing of talent the Party needed.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    Here we go again.

    You'd think if railways could work privatised, any country in Europe would have tried it. But yet neither the Swiss or Germans or anyone else, has.

    Perhaps you should get away from blind ideology and actually look at what works in the world and what doesn't.

    BT was in the end a successful privatisation when Ofcom grew some bollocks and made Openreach actually useful. Clearly owning British Airways 100% would have been a waste of time.

    But some things are better privatised and others aren't. You are too blind to see that.

    Why not take it to its logical extreme and privatise the army?
    Why are you such a Little Europeaner? Our geography and population density in England is far closer to Honshu, Japan (Japan's equivalent of England) than it is Germany.

    Rail subsidies were abolished in Honshu and the result is now a system whereby more commuters travel by rail than travel by car.

    You complain that the status quo doesn't work but then you sit there with your ideological blinkers on refusing any changes by look at another densely populated island nation whose population density is almost identical to our own who have a system that is working in a far superior manner to our own.

    The army being state owned serves a purpose, the army exists to serve the state. Railways being state owned does not, because railways should exist to serve the commuter not the whims of politicians.
    No privatise the army because it would be more efficient private. Your words.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,114

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    It is incredible that the party of sound money no longer seems to believe in the accounting identity that is the government budget constraint.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    She's worse that that. Boris was often quite an effective liar, in that he got away with things more often than not. I think he would have had enough cunning to a) not lie about people who can and will push back, b) not muck around with anti-semitism and c) leave the really dirty work to his stooges.

    Truss isn't continuity Johnson from that point of view. She's a fairly poor Johnson tribute act who is copying some of the surface features without really understanding what she's doing.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    That is still cakeism because we can only have one of those three.
  • Options
    CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited August 2022

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Present the evidence Anti-Semitism is widespread in the civil service. Truss has not.

    The EHRC presented the evidence of Labour's anti-Semitism, I accepted it. I apologised for getting it wrong and Keir has resolved these issues - in the round

    You are clearly Truss PR team now, I assume CCHQ has given you a larger bung.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    Here we go again.

    You'd think if railways could work privatised, any country in Europe would have tried it. But yet neither the Swiss or Germans or anyone else, has.

    Perhaps you should get away from blind ideology and actually look at what works in the world and what doesn't.

    BT was in the end a successful privatisation when Ofcom grew some bollocks and made Openreach actually useful. Clearly owning British Airways 100% would have been a waste of time.

    But some things are better privatised and others aren't. You are too blind to see that.

    Why not take it to its logical extreme and privatise the army?
    Why are you such a Little Europeaner? Our geography and population density in England is far closer to Honshu, Japan (Japan's equivalent of England) than it is Germany.

    Rail subsidies were abolished in Honshu and the result is now a system whereby more commuters travel by rail than travel by car.

    You complain that the status quo doesn't work but then you sit there with your ideological blinkers on refusing any changes by look at another densely populated island nation whose population density is almost identical to our own who have a system that is working in a far superior manner to our own.

    The army being state owned serves a purpose, the army exists to serve the state. Railways being state owned does not, because railways should exist to serve the commuter not the whims of politicians.
    No privatise the army because it would be more efficient private. Your words.
    Not my words.

    I said privatise railways so they focus on their customers instead of what politicians want. As happens in nations with successful subsidy-free railways where commuters are so happy with the railways firms that more people travel by rail than by car unlike the UK where 8 people travel by car for every 1 by rail.

    I don't want the army focusing on their customers. I do want the army focusing on what politicians want.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    I'm not convinced by these experts. I think we'll be damn lucky if we get a combination rather than a choice of one.
    It's not automatic that we even get one out of the three.

    Still, just over four months until the days start getting longer again.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    Here we go again.

    You'd think if railways could work privatised, any country in Europe would have tried it. But yet neither the Swiss or Germans or anyone else, has.

    Perhaps you should get away from blind ideology and actually look at what works in the world and what doesn't.

    BT was in the end a successful privatisation when Ofcom grew some bollocks and made Openreach actually useful. Clearly owning British Airways 100% would have been a waste of time.

    But some things are better privatised and others aren't. You are too blind to see that.

    Why not take it to its logical extreme and privatise the army?
    Why are you such a Little Europeaner? Our geography and population density in England is far closer to Honshu, Japan (Japan's equivalent of England) than it is Germany.

    Rail subsidies were abolished in Honshu and the result is now a system whereby more commuters travel by rail than travel by car.

    You complain that the status quo doesn't work but then you sit there with your ideological blinkers on refusing any changes by look at another densely populated island nation whose population density is almost identical to our own who have a system that is working in a far superior manner to our own.

    The army being state owned serves a purpose, the army exists to serve the state. Railways being state owned does not, because railways should exist to serve the commuter not the whims of politicians.
    No privatise the army because it would be more efficient private. Your words.
    Not my words.

    I said privatise railways so they focus on their customers instead of what politicians want. As happens in nations with successful subsidy-free railways where commuters are so happy with the railways firms that more people travel by rail than by car unlike the UK where 8 people travel by car for every 1 by rail.

    I don't want the army focusing on their customers. I do want the army focusing on what politicians want.
    You said privatised is always more efficient than nationalised. Those were your words. So let's privatise the army.
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    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1559101017886695429

    Shadow Chancellor @RachelReevesMP in today’s @TheSun: We are in the midst of a national emergency. Labour would stop energy prices rising this winter…

    They wouldn't - because they are not in power. But all they need to do is this:
    Repeat: "Labour would stop energy price rises"
    Challenge: "Why won't the Tories stop energy price rises?"
    Repeat: "The Tories don't care"

    Labour may or may not have a viable plan. But there is a plan. Which makes a bold statement that latches onto people's needs. So the Tories need their own plan and actually deliver. Just attacking the Labour plan as Brownite, or uncosted, or philosophically wrong or whatever won't help them.
    Labour has won the battle of newspaper front pages.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62544322
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Present the evidence Anti-Semitism is widespread in the civil service. Truss has not.

    The EHRC presented the evidence of Labour's anti-Semitism, I accepted it. I apologised for getting it wrong and Keir has resolved these issues - in the round

    You are clearly Truss PR team now, I assume CCHQ has given you a larger bung.
    Who said anything about "widespread" the quotation I saw said "strays into" antisemitism, rather than "widespread" antisemitism.

    Straying into antisemitism means the opposite of widespread but even just straying into antisemitism is too much antisemitism and it should all be tackled.

    BDS policies are one example of evidence and any examples without being tackled are too many. So are you willing to call out the antisemitism that does exist, or are you going to double-down on dismissing antisemitism until the evidence is so overwhelming you can't deny it anymore once again?
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    Some bad news for Liz Truss in Labour's new plan to deal with the energy crisis.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    The real PR contest will start when we have a new PM. Right now it's phoney war stuff.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.

    For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.

    That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.

    At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Without subsidies we'd have no railways left.

    Except for InterCity which was profitable when publicly owned by BR, all the railways make a loss.

    Why don't we privatise roads too? We spend billions subsidising those, make motorists pay their own way and let's have tolls for all roads
    Abolish fuel duty and road tax and I'd be quite content to pay for privatised roads, it'd be much cheaper.

    You have remarkably little faith in rails as a concept to think they can't be economically run without subsidies. If they're so dreadfully inefficient that they can't, then maybe we shouldn't have any left? But in other high population density island nations around the world the rails are able to be run without subsidies and because of the lack of subsidies any fares generated are prioritised to improving the rail network rather than pandering to political whims.
    Here we go again.

    You'd think if railways could work privatised, any country in Europe would have tried it. But yet neither the Swiss or Germans or anyone else, has.

    Perhaps you should get away from blind ideology and actually look at what works in the world and what doesn't.

    BT was in the end a successful privatisation when Ofcom grew some bollocks and made Openreach actually useful. Clearly owning British Airways 100% would have been a waste of time.

    But some things are better privatised and others aren't. You are too blind to see that.

    Why not take it to its logical extreme and privatise the army?
    Why are you such a Little Europeaner? Our geography and population density in England is far closer to Honshu, Japan (Japan's equivalent of England) than it is Germany.

    Rail subsidies were abolished in Honshu and the result is now a system whereby more commuters travel by rail than travel by car.

    You complain that the status quo doesn't work but then you sit there with your ideological blinkers on refusing any changes by look at another densely populated island nation whose population density is almost identical to our own who have a system that is working in a far superior manner to our own.

    The army being state owned serves a purpose, the army exists to serve the state. Railways being state owned does not, because railways should exist to serve the commuter not the whims of politicians.
    No privatise the army because it would be more efficient private. Your words.
    Not my words.

    I said privatise railways so they focus on their customers instead of what politicians want. As happens in nations with successful subsidy-free railways where commuters are so happy with the railways firms that more people travel by rail than by car unlike the UK where 8 people travel by car for every 1 by rail.

    I don't want the army focusing on their customers. I do want the army focusing on what politicians want.
    You said privatised is always more efficient than nationalised. Those were your words. So let's privatise the army.
    Please quote where I said that in this conversation, I don't think I did. Please quote the actual words, in the actual sentence, that I used?

    I don't want the "army" to be efficient in that sense, since there's no profit motive since there's no customers for the army. The army exists to provide public security for the entire country, rail firms exist to provide private transportation for their own customers. Two completely different things.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
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    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    It is incredible that the party of sound money no longer seems to believe in the accounting identity that is the government budget constraint.
    I know! One of the very few values/messages of Conservatism that I like, and always have, is that you cannot just borrow and spend your way to prosperity as if debt doesn't matter.

    Now they've junked this I really can't find much of value there at all. I'm either neutral or negative or just totally down in the chops about pretty much everything they stand for or seem to be offering.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    ydoethur said:

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    I'm not convinced by these experts. I think we'll be damn lucky if we get a combination rather than a choice of one.
    It's not automatic that we even get one out of the three.

    Still, just over four months until the days start getting longer again.
    Blimey, that's scraping the barrel on optimism.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited August 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

    That's a rather lame effort on your part, even if that is their position it is not that opposed to one another - for example, they could be terrible, but we have used up a bunch of our rather limited capacity simply contributing to Ukraine's defence, and as such we need to make sure we have a lot more capacity just in case the Russians do something even stupider, since even if we can beat them we need the tools available.

    I'm not about to say Francois and his ilk are not fools, but your summary of him is not as idiotic as you seem to think.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
    Yes people like Margaret Hodge, oh dear wrong again
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    Good Odd Lots podcast (Joe Weisenthal and Tracy Alloway from Bloomberg) on energy prices in Europe:
    https://open.spotify.com/show/1te7oSFyRVekxMBJUSethH
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited August 2022

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    She's worse that that. Boris was often quite an effective liar, in that he got away with things more often than not. I think he would have had enough cunning to a) not lie about people who can and will push back, b) not muck around with anti-semitism and c) leave the really dirty work to his stooges.

    Truss isn't continuity Johnson from that point of view. She's a fairly poor Johnson tribute act who is copying some of the surface features without really understanding what she's doing.
    Spot on. Despite his manifest weaknesses, Boris was wise enough never to come out with completely unfounded smears such as "anti-semitism is rife within the Civil Service". He knew which cans of worms not to open, usually.
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    https://twitter.com/leninology/status/1559094673897132032

    The TUC estimates that nationalising the energy retailers would cost £2.85bn. Starmer is talking about handing over £29bn just to keep prices down. This isn’t pragmatic, it is ideological.

    I believe in having a publicly owned alternative but what is the point in nationalising retailers who buy the energy and gas? Seems like it achieves nothing but ideology, Labour need to be smarter than that
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Fascinating. When you frame the debate "Boris got the big calls right' and send your cabinet out daily to promote this message his findings that 84% of 2019 Tory voters think he did well on policies isn't a surprising finding.

    That over half still thought he had to go because of character flaws is slightly reassuring though the ease with which the Tories have been allowed to frame the debate is not.







  • Options
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    Corbynism is probably at best tolerating of anti-Semitism and most of us have acknowledged that - but people like Margaret Hodge are calling out Truss as lying. She not only fought against Corbyn, she is Jewish. I trust her judgment here
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1559101017886695429

    Shadow Chancellor @RachelReevesMP in today’s @TheSun: We are in the midst of a national emergency. Labour would stop energy prices rising this winter…

    They wouldn't - because they are not in power. But all they need to do is this:
    Repeat: "Labour would stop energy price rises"
    Challenge: "Why won't the Tories stop energy price rises?"
    Repeat: "The Tories don't care"

    Labour may or may not have a viable plan. But there is a plan. Which makes a bold statement that latches onto people's needs. So the Tories need their own plan and actually deliver. Just attacking the Labour plan as Brownite, or uncosted, or philosophically wrong or whatever won't help them.
    Indeed. 'The opposition has no idea how to fix these problems either' is not a compelling one - people expect more from a government than an opposition, that's why oppositions can often get away with not having clear ideas.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Not again. Please find me some evidence that the "Jewish community" (which is not a homogenous bloc - a bit dodgy to suggest it is) has expressed any concerns about anti-semitism within the Civil Service.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    Corbynism is probably at best tolerating of anti-Semitism and most of us have acknowledged that - but people like Margaret Hodge are calling out Truss as lying. She not only fought against Corbyn, she is Jewish. I trust her judgment here
    I was merely speculating as to her thought process, not justifying it. I think she carelessly combined her attacks but did so in a way which made a very specific allegation against the civil service which needs evidencing. Someone who supports woke ideology waving a palestinian flag won't have jack to do with justifying a claim the civil service is becoming anti semitic.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
    You must be sad matey, she's taken over your party and taken it away from its roots
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    Corbynism is probably at best tolerating of anti-Semitism and most of us have acknowledged that - but people like Margaret Hodge are calling out Truss as lying. She not only fought against Corbyn, she is Jewish. I trust her judgment here
    I was merely speculating as to her thought process, not justifying it. I think she carelessly combined her attacks but did so in a way which made a very specific allegation against the civil service which needs evidencing. Someone who supports woke ideology waving a palestinian flag won't have jack to do with justifying a claim the civil service is becoming anti semitic.
    I was meaning to agree with you Sir
  • Options

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    What the fuck
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
    Yes people like Margaret Hodge, oh dear wrong again
    No, not people like Hodge and not wrong.

    Just as people like Hodge sat side-by-side with antisemites like Corbyn and his fellow travellers for years, but it only came to the fore when Corbyn rose to the top how serious the problem was, so too there is a culture that sometimes strays into antisemitism.

    That sometimes is too often and rather than dismissing it as you did previously, repeating your mistakes of the past, maybe you should stop and listen when people say what the issues are?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. kle4, Truss misspeaking (to be polite) appears to be standard operating procedure. Not smart.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999



    You said privatised is always more efficient than nationalised. Those were your words. So let's privatise the army.

    It works with Wagner and Constellis. A British PMC would probably be quite successful and useful.

    Although the tories would probably put that woman who looks like Mark E. Smith in charge of it and fuck it all up.
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    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
    Yes people like Margaret Hodge, oh dear wrong again
    No, not people like Hodge and not wrong.

    Just as people like Hodge sat side-by-side with antisemites like Corbyn and his fellow travellers for years, but it only came to the fore when Corbyn rose to the top how serious the problem was, so too there is a culture that sometimes strays into antisemitism.

    That sometimes is too often and rather than dismissing it as you did previously, repeating your mistakes of the past, maybe you should stop and listen when people say what the issues are?
    Goodness me you really don't have a clue about Labour or Hodge do you
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    This was a specific allegation about anti semitism within the civil service. That needs to be proven, since it is very concerning if it is true. That is not the same thing as thinking criticism of wokeness itself (or at least how far it can go) is absurd.

    I'm sure that is how Truss will attempt to spin it though, no doubt people misrepresented her words again by quoting them directly.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    HYUFD said:

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
    Actual libertarian, or 'I don't like it when people tell me what to do but I am very happy to tell others what to do in all manner of ways and use government to force that' libertarian?
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,641
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    How strange Bart who claims to care so much, is being silent.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
    You must be sad matey, she's taken over your party and taken it away from its roots
    Good. The 'roots' that HYUFD wants is a horrible extreme caricature of 18th century politics.

    Its funny how you think people who consistently support libertarian principles and argue with HYUFD over libertarian issues must be "bunged" by CCHQ to want a libertarian as PM.

    If you weren't so blinkered, maybe you could understand that not all right wingers are the same and that a libertarian Truss matches my principles but doesn't match HYUFD's which explains our respective views of this contest.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Battery, funnily enough, 'what the fuck' was my response to this wonderful little video about white privilege:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg

    Wokeness is fixated on categorising people by demographics such as race. We see this with some modern employment practices such as when Cressida Dick wanted the right to discriminate against white applicants.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    Quite a lot going on here.
  • Options

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    What the fuck
    Wasn't one of the main debate on Woke Twitter in July how much White Privilege Anne Frank had?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    edited August 2022
    Announcement of price cap August 26.
    Announcement of Tory PM September 5.
    Period of maximum danger. Vague aspirations won't cut it.
    The 1922 was out of touch. Members holidays was the priority in framing the schedule.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
    Yes people like Margaret Hodge, oh dear wrong again
    No, not people like Hodge and not wrong.

    Just as people like Hodge sat side-by-side with antisemites like Corbyn and his fellow travellers for years, but it only came to the fore when Corbyn rose to the top how serious the problem was, so too there is a culture that sometimes strays into antisemitism.

    That sometimes is too often and rather than dismissing it as you did previously, repeating your mistakes of the past, maybe you should stop and listen when people say what the issues are?
    Goodness me you really don't have a clue about Labour or Hodge do you
    I do. Hodge and Corbyn say together on the Labour benches from 1994 to 2020.

    That Corbyn and his fellow travellers were antisemites was true and clear the entire time, but a blind eye was turned to it as he was considered a relatively harmless crank that swelled their numbers.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    HYUFD said:

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
    In theory, maybe. But I've often thought that a libertarian government is an oxymoron, and has been for a century or more. Government always comes under irresistible pressure to "do something" to fix short-term problems, regardless of how ineffective, counter-productive or downright damaging the solutions are in the long term. The lazy solution is always the big government one, which is why Boris, who likes to think of himself as a libertarian in many ways, but was too lazy to implement it, in fact governed as a soft-socialist authoritarian with lockdowns and a huge tax burden.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    It actually makes a twisted kind of sense as far as Truss is concerned. No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites. But accusations of wokeness might get some traction. So stitch the two together in the minds of some and the Civil Service becomes a bit easier to attack and a bit harder to defend. Anything that softens it up before the full onslaught is worth a try.
  • Options

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    What the fuck
    Wasn't one of the main debate on Woke Twitter in July how much White Privilege Anne Frank had?
    Jesus Christ since when was Twitter representative of anything.

    On right wing Twitter yesterday they were talking about homelessness not only being a symptom but a requirement of the energy crisis. "Those people should have made better choices."
  • Options

    The real PR contest will start when we have a new PM. Right now it's phoney war stuff.

    Wise words - Nobody has a clue what will happen when Truss becomes PM in three weeks and I am quite content to wait and see before passing an opinion on her

    Lots of excitable comments about labour whose policy announcement this morning was simply hijacked from the SNP and Lib Dems

    There is no doubt cancelling energy price rises is popular, but it will not be labour policy implemented in October so it is upto Truss to come up with an answer or face the consequences
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,114
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    I remember reading that and thinking WTAF?
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
    Yes people like Margaret Hodge, oh dear wrong again
    No, not people like Hodge and not wrong.

    Just as people like Hodge sat side-by-side with antisemites like Corbyn and his fellow travellers for years, but it only came to the fore when Corbyn rose to the top how serious the problem was, so too there is a culture that sometimes strays into antisemitism.

    That sometimes is too often and rather than dismissing it as you did previously, repeating your mistakes of the past, maybe you should stop and listen when people say what the issues are?
    Goodness me you really don't have a clue about Labour or Hodge do you
    I do. Hodge and Corbyn say together on the Labour benches from 1994 to 2020.

    That Corbyn and his fellow travellers were antisemites was true and clear the entire time, but a blind eye was turned to it as he was considered a relatively harmless crank that swelled their numbers.
    Liz Truss apparently sat on the Civil Service anti-Semitism story for a decade. Why would she work with people and turn a blind eye to their issues?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited August 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Announcement of price cap August 26.
    Announcement of Tory PM September 5.
    Period of maximum danger. Vague aspirations won't cut it.
    The 1922 was out of touch. Members holidays was the priority in framing the schedule.

    The length of time for the members contest was always bizarrely long, the MP's section I thought was done in good time.
    I expect a longer timeframe was also put in by the 1922 to try and help Rishi as they knew he would be starting behind.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Not again. Please find me some evidence that the "Jewish community" (which is not a homogenous bloc - a bit dodgy to suggest it is) has expressed any concerns about anti-semitism within the Civil Service.
    Issues within the Foreign Office has been brought up repeatedly within the conversation, is the Foreign Office not a part of the Civil Service?
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    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.
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    I don’t say this lightly. The cost of living crisis is a national emergency.

    Households struggling to pay their bills need immediate help, and support for the future.

    With Labour, you wouldn’t spend a penny more on energy bills this winter.

    Our plan would save you £1,000.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1559110299214647296
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,335

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    On the Marxist Left these positions are entirely consistent: they see racism as prejudice plus power and, because they believe "they hold all the power", it cannot be racist to exercise those prejudices.

    I think they view Koreans/Chinese who do very well in the existing system as accomplices and traitors to the cause, and, so, also fair game.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Not again. Please find me some evidence that the "Jewish community" (which is not a homogenous bloc - a bit dodgy to suggest it is) has expressed any concerns about anti-semitism within the Civil Service.
    Issues within the Foreign Office has been brought up repeatedly within the conversation, is the Foreign Office not a part of the Civil Service?
    You haven't answered my question. You specifically mentioned "concerns of the Jewish Community" (sic) about anti-semitism within the Civil Service, You haven't evidenced these concerns.

    Why? Because there are none.

    And you really should stop referring to "the Jewish community" as if it were a homogenous bloc. That's verging on anti-semitism. Not all Jews have the same views, you know.
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    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386

    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    FFs Bart, why don't you get a proper job instead of pedalling your shite all day.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Royale, yes, but I reject absolutely the bullshit redefining of racism as necessarily involving power. Their position is only consistent if they abuse the English language in the same way delinquents try and pretend relative poverty matters as much or more than relative poverty.
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    kinabalu said:

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    It is incredible that the party of sound money no longer seems to believe in the accounting identity that is the government budget constraint.
    I know! One of the very few values/messages of Conservatism that I like, and always have, is that you cannot just borrow and spend your way to prosperity as if debt doesn't matter.

    Now they've junked this I really can't find much of value there at all. I'm either neutral or negative or just totally down in the chops about pretty much everything they stand for or seem to be offering.
    We are a sovereign currency issuer. It's remarkable that post-2007 anyone still believes in the hoax of a SCI being constrained by debt.

    Government spending is constrained by resource availability and the external purchasing power of the currency, not by a notional figure called "the national debt" which could be reduced to 0 tomorrow using the Bank of England printing press.

    Inflation is a real life problem, the deficit is not, it is a prison of our own imagining.

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    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    No I didn't, you liar, any more than I said the army should be privatised. I never said anything about self-hating Jews.

    I said that Labour was tolerating of antisemitism within its ranks by allowing Corbyn to stay in the party for decades while he was openly antisemitic, as too where many of his fellow travellers. I don't think Hodge though had much say on whether her colleague Corbyn was a Labour MP or not.

    Tolerating people that stray into antisemitism allows the problem to fester and multiply until it gets worse. Your party made that mistake for decades, now you're wanting to repeat that mistake by dismissing the evidence of where antisemitism does exist today still - and by wanting to turn it around to go from saying there is a problem of "straying" into antisemitism that needs tackling to pretending that means everyone is a raging antisemite.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
    Actual libertarian, or 'I don't like it when people tell me what to do but I am very happy to tell others what to do in all manner of ways and use government to force that' libertarian?
    Probably why she left the Lib Dems! Too much live and let live.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,613
    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    Yet again, are the Tories admitting they have given up on their new voters or are they just thick?

    The Red Wall DOES NOT want Thatcher

    Its genuinely saddening when actual elected MPs clearly operate purely on nostalgia blinkers. They remember being a young man or woman or intermediate when Thatcher or Foot or whoever was sparking their interest in politics and they think the answer to everything is to redo that.
    Look at the party membership, and you'll understand that's inevitable.

    A party which formulates policy to satisfy the prejudices of this demographic is going to strongly skew towards nostalgia, amongst other things.
    https://www.ft.com/content/1454fe21-5b2e-459c-966c-65fd48d52f8f
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    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    Whilst not agreeing with Bart, your argument displays no logical consistency. Better to refrain from cheap shots particularly when they are so patently flawed.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,304
    edited August 2022

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
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    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Announcement of price cap August 26.
    Announcement of Tory PM September 5.
    Period of maximum danger. Vague aspirations won't cut it.
    The 1922 was out of touch. Members holidays was the priority in framing the schedule.

    The length of time for the members contest was always bizarrely long, the MP's section I thought was done in good time.
    I expect a longer timeframe was also put in by the 1922 to try and help Rishi as they knew he would be starting behind.
    The mistake was in allowing the members to have a say at all. This should have been decided by the MPs in which case it would have been settled before the recess.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    Not bizarre at all considering how many 'woke' rallies and organisations have been infiltrated by Palestinian-flag waving antisemites.

    But there are none so blind as those who can not see. The same people who dismissed antisemitism in 2019 are dismissing it again today. For shame.
    "For shame" - lol. Pass the sickbag.

    The truth is that the same people whose one and only interest in antisemitism is as something to smear Labour or "woke" or the "left" with are at it again today.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    Mr. Battery, funnily enough, 'what the fuck' was my response to this wonderful little video about white privilege:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg

    Wokeness is fixated on categorising people by demographics such as race. We see this with some modern employment practices such as when Cressida Dick wanted the right to discriminate against white applicants.

    From the way she behaved I suggest Cressida Dick wanted to discriminate against competent applicants!
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