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PM Truss’s first test – the energy cost crisis – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Dura_Ace said:



    You said privatised is always more efficient than nationalised. Those were your words. So let's privatise the army.

    It works with Wagner and Constellis. A British PMC would probably be quite successful and useful.

    Although the tories would probably put that woman who looks like Mark E. Smith in charge of it and fuck it all up.
    Wagner's military performance *against people who can shoot back* is not that great.
  • Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    Whilst not agreeing with Bart, your argument displays no logical consistency. Better to refrain from cheap shots particularly when they are so patently flawed.
    Bart said Margaret Hodge tolerated anti-Semitism by being on the backbenches with Corbyn.

    Not only did Hodge not support Corbyn for leader, she called out anti-Semitism from almost day one of him being elected. She worked night and day to remove him. Nobody sane suggests she actually tolerated anti-Semitism.

    Margaret Hodge is Jewish, Bart implied a Jewish woman tolerates anti-Semitism. It is not a huge stretch to conclude he was being anti-Semitic
  • Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Indeed, the price of commuting is for 80% of the country up 50% and has been automatically all year and the feather prats whining about fares are worried about a less than 11% fare rise coming into place at some point next year?

    Oh go cry me river. Long past time to abolish all rail subsidies and allow rail commuters to pay their own way. See how much rail fares adjust by then when the energy to power the rails has more than doubled in price.
    Glad to see you support a move of office type jobs to work from home. That way there is no need for big offices mainly in the south east, people can live where they want, so no need to concrete over southern england etc etc
    A tentative step towards redressing the balance, perhaps?

    https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/24962.jpeg
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359

    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    The better criticism of Margaret Hodge is that she looked the other way, when faced with allegations of child sex abuse, as leader of Islington Council. That ought to have disqualified her from public office.
  • .
    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
  • The Tory Party tolerated homophobia for decades, introducing policies that enforced it.

    It's weird Bart is so happy to talk about the Labour Party's problems but not those of his own.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    Whilst not agreeing with Bart, your argument displays no logical consistency. Better to refrain from cheap shots particularly when they are so patently flawed.
    Bart said Margaret Hodge tolerated anti-Semitism by being on the backbenches with Corbyn.

    Not only did Hodge not support Corbyn for leader, she called out anti-Semitism from almost day one of him being elected. She worked night and day to remove him. Nobody sane suggests she actually tolerated anti-Semitism.

    Margaret Hodge is Jewish, Bart implied a Jewish woman tolerates anti-Semitism. It is not a huge stretch to conclude he was being anti-Semitic
    I think the point being made was that while Corbyn was some cranky old loon sitting in the depths of the Lab back benches, his anti-semitism was just seen as one (more) eccentricity of the far left which he aligned himself with.

    Shit got real when he was made leader of the party and I imagine at that point Hodge was roused to action.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
  • TOPPING said:

    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    Whilst not agreeing with Bart, your argument displays no logical consistency. Better to refrain from cheap shots particularly when they are so patently flawed.
    Bart said Margaret Hodge tolerated anti-Semitism by being on the backbenches with Corbyn.

    Not only did Hodge not support Corbyn for leader, she called out anti-Semitism from almost day one of him being elected. She worked night and day to remove him. Nobody sane suggests she actually tolerated anti-Semitism.

    Margaret Hodge is Jewish, Bart implied a Jewish woman tolerates anti-Semitism. It is not a huge stretch to conclude he was being anti-Semitic
    I think the point being made was that while Corbyn was some cranky old loon sitting in the depths of the Lab back benches, his anti-semitism was just seen as one (more) eccentricity of the far left which he aligned himself with.

    Shit got real when he was made leader of the party and I imagine at that point Hodge was roused to action.
    Bart's party has MPs who happily sat around and furthered the cause of homophobia.

    Frankly I think the record of both main parties in the past has been a disgrace on many issues. But at least Labour has apologised for anti-Semitism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    edited August 2022
    Dura_Ace said:



    You said privatised is always more efficient than nationalised. Those were your words. So let's privatise the army.

    It works with Wagner and Constellis. A British PMC would probably be quite successful and useful.

    Although the tories would probably put that woman who looks like Mark E. Smith in charge of it and fuck it all up.
    There's a difference between groups of mercenaries and regular armies.
    I'm not sure there's a huge amount of evidence for the effectiveness of the Wagner Group (other than their ability to perpetrate atrocities) when they're opposed by a military with decent equipment and training, as in Ukraine.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited August 2022

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

    I don't think any of us expected Russia to bungle their military campaign as badly as they have done.
  • Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,167
    edited August 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    For some reason, Bloomberg UK doesn't seem to have said most of that.

    Meanwhile, much of Europe is pursuing the UK model of a greater diversity of operators. They usually catch up eventually.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Judge each of them by their friends...

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1559084979686150145
  • "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Sean_F said:

    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    The better criticism of Margaret Hodge is that she looked the other way, when faced with allegations of child sex abuse, as leader of Islington Council. That ought to have disqualified her from public office.
    The allegations go *a lot* further than that. But yes, they should have disqualified her from any sort of public office.
  • TOPPING said:

    Bart there just called Margaret Hodge - a Jewish woman - tolerating of anti-Semitism. A self hating Jew.

    So Bart is anti-Semitic. Lovely.

    Whilst not agreeing with Bart, your argument displays no logical consistency. Better to refrain from cheap shots particularly when they are so patently flawed.
    Bart said Margaret Hodge tolerated anti-Semitism by being on the backbenches with Corbyn.

    Not only did Hodge not support Corbyn for leader, she called out anti-Semitism from almost day one of him being elected. She worked night and day to remove him. Nobody sane suggests she actually tolerated anti-Semitism.

    Margaret Hodge is Jewish, Bart implied a Jewish woman tolerates anti-Semitism. It is not a huge stretch to conclude he was being anti-Semitic
    I think the point being made was that while Corbyn was some cranky old loon sitting in the depths of the Lab back benches, his anti-semitism was just seen as one (more) eccentricity of the far left which he aligned himself with.

    Shit got real when he was made leader of the party and I imagine at that point Hodge was roused to action.
    Bart's party has MPs who happily sat around and furthered the cause of homophobia.

    Frankly I think the record of both main parties in the past has been a disgrace on many issues. But at least Labour has apologised for anti-Semitism.
    Bart doesn't have a party, but I have frequently called out homophobics within the Tory Party including people on this site who vote for the Tories or are members of the Tories who use homophobic language. Thankfully much less common now than it used to be.

    I'm not blind to the issues of the Tory Party, I've never claimed they're perfect. I acknowledge full well there are MPs in the Tory Party that I would happily vote against and would wish were not MPs.

    You're the one who's trying to pretend that saying an institution sometimes "strays into" an -ism is a vile lie, rather than a truth that needs addressing. Absolutely I would say there are some in the Tory Party that "stray into" homophobia etc and we should be open eyed about that and look to tackle it, not claim it is a "lie".
  • Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    We marvel at their privatised systems delivering such efficiencies.

    Ah ffs, all publicly owned!
  • MattW said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    For some reason, Bloomberg UK doesn't seem to have said most of that.

    Meanwhile, much of Europe is pursuing the UK model of a greater diversity of operators. They usually catch up eventually.

    Nobody in Europe is selling of their StateCo or InfraCo.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
  • Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    If you want to save gas for the winter then surely we should be investing in storage more than simply solar?

    I have acknowledged that Solar is economic so that's a good reason to install it, but purely for a money-saving purposes not for saving the environment or security of supply when our vulnerability of supply is in the winter not the summer.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,383
    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    Extraordinary. Since when has the Civil Service dictated the UK government's foreign policy? It may be fair comment that the UK government prioritises oil supply over other considerations. But the CS?

    I only wish, as an ex civil servant, that we'd had as much power as some folk attribute to us.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

    I don't think any of us expected Russia to bungle their military campaign as badly as they have done.
    Or....war is messy and unpredictable and taking your cue from, say, Top Gun Maverick, where the goodies always win is not the most reliable method of analysis.
  • TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    Extraordinary. Since when has the Civil Service dictated the UK government's foreign policy? It may be fair comment that the UK government prioritises oil supply over other considerations. But the CS?

    I only wish, as an ex civil servant, that we'd had as much power as some folk attribute to us.
    You filthy anti-Semite
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,039
    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

    I don't think any of us expected Russia to bungle their military campaign as badly as they have done.
    The worry is they might learn and do it a bit better next time.

    And then there's China ...
  • "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.

    So you want to store the energy from July to January?

    Our energy demand peaks in winter. Solar energy supply peaks in summer and drops in winter.

    Storing from day to night may be viable, storing from summer to winter not so much.

    Storing wind energy for maybe a week while we have a low pressure front for a week is far more viable than storing solar power from July to be used in January.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    Do you consider good relations with Arab oil states a form of anti-semisism?

    Or for that matter supporting a peaceful two state solution to the question of Palestinian statehood?


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    If you want to save gas for the winter then surely we should be investing in storage more than simply solar?

    I have acknowledged that Solar is economic so that's a good reason to install it, but purely for a money-saving purposes not for saving the environment or security of supply when our vulnerability of supply is in the winter not the summer.
    Of course other stuff is needed but upping our solar production is a very very simple win nationally. That's not going to be the entirity of Labour's plans - but there's no mention of it from the media, 100% of the focus is on this winter.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
    I think Bart is just a contrarian. I suspect that if you said "Black and white are different colours" he would argue with you :D
  • Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
    I think solar does work and is economic so its viable to install it purely for fiscal purposes.

    I do not think it works to provide energy security in January when our energy demand peaks. Our energy demand and solar's energy supply are countercyclical. Energy demand in January is much, much, much higher than in July but solar supply in January is much, much, much lower than in July.

    Solar is a more viable solution for security in places like California where demand peaks in summer for air conditioning use.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Sorry Bart, I missed this. Can you point me to the part in the clip where he answers the question and gives evidence of antisemitism in the civil service? Can you point me to any such evidence so I can "do my own research"?
  • https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559116580721758209

    Liz Truss has a very easy win open to her. She sets out her own plan in a couple of weeks, then adds “and I am not ruling out further action if required. Including emergency renationalisation as we have already done with some rail franchises and the banks”. Where’s Keir then?

    She'll lost Bart!
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    I have a friend who's one of the last remaining Corbynites. He's all in favour of spending money, as that automatically increases GDP and therefore increases prosperity. Mind you, he also thinks Zelensky is the baddie because the Ukraine is full of Nazis. He doesn't go as far as wanting to leave Nato, but he's only a pint or so away of saying so.

    I've never been offended by anything he's ever said, because I'm too old, and it's an affectation best kept for the young.

  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
    Well, if they always prioritize oil supply over everything else as you state then the war in Ukraine shouldn't make a difference.
  • DougSeal said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Sorry Bart, I missed this. Can you point me to the part in the clip where he answers the question and gives evidence of antisemitism in the civil service? Can you point me to any such evidence so I can "do my own research"?
    Seconds 11 to 20 of the clip.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    I think Bart is just a contrarian. I suspect that if you said "Black and white are different colours" he would argue with you :D

    The correct term is troll
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559116580721758209

    Liz Truss has a very easy win open to her. She sets out her own plan in a couple of weeks, then adds “and I am not ruling out further action if required. Including emergency renationalisation as we have already done with some rail franchises and the banks”. Where’s Keir then?

    She'll lost Bart!

    That tweet makes no sense whatsoever.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    Extraordinary. Since when has the Civil Service dictated the UK government's foreign policy? It may be fair comment that the UK government prioritises oil supply over other considerations. But the CS?

    I only wish, as an ex civil servant, that we'd had as much power as some folk attribute to us.
    One of the wonderful things about the British Empire, I'm sure you will agree, is that domestic civil servants of whatever department held sway over vast swathes of the globe. Including Palestine.

    While I'm sure your time in the civil service was usefully spent counting and ordering paper clips, it was not ever thus. And the "Arabist" theme of the civil service is a long and well-documented one. Stemming if not from 1917 then from 1948 and beyond.
  • https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1559117245132972034

    Have you met Liz? She is not going to nationalise anything. Wear a hat in the sunshine.

    Lol Guido has made me laugh finally
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    DougSeal said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Sorry Bart, I missed this. Can you point me to the part in the clip where he answers the question and gives evidence of antisemitism in the civil service? Can you point me to any such evidence so I can "do my own research"?
    Seconds 11 to 20 of the clip.
    Not sure that counts as evidence. Also she made a very general point on, if that is accepted, an experience in one department.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Liz's plan for the next few weeks is surely to keep everything a bit vague, a detailed plan would get picked apart at this stage (As ANY plan is going to have it's difficulties).
    Once she's in it's a different matter - but the race isn't technically over yet and she doesn't want another regional pay debacle.
    Basically 19 days of shouldering arms to deliveries outside offstump in cricketing terms.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559116580721758209

    Liz Truss has a very easy win open to her. She sets out her own plan in a couple of weeks, then adds “and I am not ruling out further action if required. Including emergency renationalisation as we have already done with some rail franchises and the banks”. Where’s Keir then?

    She'll lost Bart!

    Then the ERG VONC her in 5 minutes
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,153

    kinabalu said:

    Clearly has not got the memo saying we have had enough of experts telling us that we can't have our cake and eat it...

    Institute for Fiscal Studies
    @TheIFS
    ·

    "Over the next few years, we can have some combination of sound public finances, a well-funded welfare state and tax cuts. We can’t have all three."

    @PJTheEconomist writes for the @thetimes on the consequences of 'cakeism'>

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist

    It is incredible that the party of sound money no longer seems to believe in the accounting identity that is the government budget constraint.
    I know! One of the very few values/messages of Conservatism that I like, and always have, is that you cannot just borrow and spend your way to prosperity as if debt doesn't matter.

    Now they've junked this I really can't find much of value there at all. I'm either neutral or negative or just totally down in the chops about pretty much everything they stand for or seem to be offering.
    We are a sovereign currency issuer. It's remarkable that post-2007 anyone still believes in the hoax of a SCI being constrained by debt.

    Government spending is constrained by resource availability and the external purchasing power of the currency, not by a notional figure called "the national debt" which could be reduced to 0 tomorrow using the Bank of England printing press.

    Inflation is a real life problem, the deficit is not, it is a prison of our own imagining.
    I'm sorry but I think this is nonsense. Or if you mean it in absolutist terms it is. The level of government indebtedness shouldn't be dictating policy - as eg with Osborne - but we risk dire consequences if it's ignored.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
    NVR
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.

    For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.

    That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.

    At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
    Is that really what they do?!

    Jesus f Christ

    Is this private or public sector?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited August 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    Liz's plan for the next few weeks is surely to keep everything a bit vague, a detailed plan would get picked apart at this stage (As ANY plan is going to have it's difficulties).
    Once she's in it's a different matter - but the race isn't technically over yet and she doesn't want another regional pay debacle.
    Basically 19 days of shouldering arms to deliveries outside offstump in cricketing terms.

    Unfortunately for her, the August 26 announcement of the new price cap is a 90 mph inswinging Yorker on middle.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
    I think solar does work and is economic so its viable to install it purely for fiscal purposes.

    I do not think it works to provide energy security in January when our energy demand peaks. Our energy demand and solar's energy supply are countercyclical. Energy demand in January is much, much, much higher than in July but solar supply in January is much, much, much lower than in July.

    Solar is a more viable solution for security in places like California where demand peaks in summer for air conditioning use.
    Store solar energy over the summer and if we get more summers like this we will also need the energy for air con and fans anyway
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1559093426313887744

    NEW Mark Francois: Why Liz Truss wins the "Thatcher test" on defence and foreign policy

    I'm not really following the new tory orthodox on defence pushed by Baldy Ben and others.

    1. The Russians are the gang that couldn't shoot straight and are getting their shit pushed in by Ukraine.

    2. We need to increase defence spending by 20bn+ per annum to counter the imminent and grave threat posed by... er... Russia.

    I don't think any of us expected Russia to bungle their military campaign as badly as they have done.
    Or....war is messy and unpredictable and taking your cue from, say, Top Gun Maverick, where the goodies always win is not the most reliable method of analysis.
    I was expecting the good guys to lose. Fortunately, I was wrong.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
    Well, if they always prioritize oil supply over everything else as you state then the war in Ukraine shouldn't make a difference.
    Which of course is not what I said. I said that there was a known "Arabist" faction within the civil service that at best perceived the world through a geo-political lens whereby it was important to secure the UK's energy supplies; and at worst, it was anti-semitic.

    I love how those on the left will die in a ditch to show how the UK is institutionally biased against any minority you care to name except the Jews towards whom they showed exemplary equanimity and impartiality.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    edited August 2022
    dixiedean said:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559116580721758209

    Liz Truss has a very easy win open to her. She sets out her own plan in a couple of weeks, then adds “and I am not ruling out further action if required. Including emergency renationalisation as we have already done with some rail franchises and the banks”. Where’s Keir then?

    She'll lost Bart!

    That tweet makes no sense whatsoever.
    So Hodges' criticism of Sir Keir is that he's been mute while Liz goes around promising to nationalize on scale that would make Atlee blush. Did the Tory membership receive that particular memo?
  • HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
    I think solar does work and is economic so its viable to install it purely for fiscal purposes.

    I do not think it works to provide energy security in January when our energy demand peaks. Our energy demand and solar's energy supply are countercyclical. Energy demand in January is much, much, much higher than in July but solar supply in January is much, much, much lower than in July.

    Solar is a more viable solution for security in places like California where demand peaks in summer for air conditioning use.
    Store solar energy over the summer and if we get more summers like this we will also need the energy for air con and fans anyway
    Do you want to join Labour mate
  • Selebian said:

    DougSeal said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    Good answer by Lewis and yes the evidence is there.

    Sometimes in the Foreign Office especially and anywhere with BDS policies absolutely antisemitism is a problem and there is a lot of evidence for that.

    It is rather sad to see the same people who were dismissive of antisemitism when Corbyn was in charge now being dismissive of tackling antisemitism in other places it exists too. It seems you've learnt nothing, you should be ashamed, maybe stop and listen rather than reflexively dismissing concerns of the Jewish community when they're raised.
    Sorry Bart, I missed this. Can you point me to the part in the clip where he answers the question and gives evidence of antisemitism in the civil service? Can you point me to any such evidence so I can "do my own research"?
    Seconds 11 to 20 of the clip.
    Not sure that counts as evidence. Also she made a very general point on, if that is accepted, an experience in one department.
    Well yes, what she said "strays into" is a very general point which some want to blow up into an almighty row by pretending there is absolutely zero antisemitism in the Civil Service whatsoever, it is never strayed into, and it doesn't need tackling.

    If a politician on the left said that there can be a culture that sometimes strays into sexism, or racism, or homophobia, which needs to be tackled then would it have been objected to so ferociously? Or would people be nodding their heads saying that its right to tackle those issues where its strayed into?

    I think Baddiel's expression is showing itself to be relevant once more.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.

    For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.

    That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.

    At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
    Is that really what they do?!

    Jesus f Christ

    Is this private or public sector?
    As my US great uncle would say "Jones didn't get them all", a reference to the loons killing themselves at Jonestown.
  • dixiedean said:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559116580721758209

    Liz Truss has a very easy win open to her. She sets out her own plan in a couple of weeks, then adds “and I am not ruling out further action if required. Including emergency renationalisation as we have already done with some rail franchises and the banks”. Where’s Keir then?

    She'll lost Bart!

    That tweet makes no sense whatsoever.
    Even by his own standards of punditry, Dan's really not having a good summer, is he?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946

    HYUFD said:

    "Liz was always more of a privatizing, libertarian liberal so there is a consistent thread of thought there. I remember a student discussion group in which she advocated privatization of lamp posts," says an Oxford contemporary

    https://twitter.com/lukemcgee/status/1558772119726612480

    Indeed, Truss will be our most libertarian PM ever
    You must be sad matey, she's taken over your party and taken it away from its roots
    Truss is not a Tory no, she is at heart a libertarian liberal. At least at the next general election we can see how popular having a libertarian as Conservative Party leader is with the electorate. If she wins fair enough, if she leads the party to heavy defeat though we will swiftly be back to traditional conservatism
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
    Well, if they always prioritize oil supply over everything else as you state then the war in Ukraine shouldn't make a difference.
    Which of course is not what I said. I said that there was a known "Arabist" faction within the civil service that at best perceived the world through a geo-political lens whereby it was important to secure the UK's energy supplies; and at worst, it was anti-semitic.

    I love how those on the left will die in a ditch to show how the UK is institutionally biased against any minority you care to name except the Jews towards whom they showed exemplary equanimity and impartiality.
    Er, I quoted you directly. (And by the way, I don't regard myself as being 'on the left'.)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,153

    Mr. Boy, that's a fair comment. By all accounts what Truss said was not substantiated and was, therefore, a stupid thing to say.

    No longer "mildly amused" then?

    That's a shame. Life needs its chuckles.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Nigelb said:

    Judge each of them by their friends...

    https://twitter.com/Hromadske/status/1559084979686150145

    Do even the Russian populace regard buddying up with the North Koreans as really good news or a sign of good allies?

    I mean, one can be super opposed to the american imperium or whatever without thinking Pyongyang is the hip place to be.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
    Well, if they always prioritize oil supply over everything else as you state then the war in Ukraine shouldn't make a difference.
    Which of course is not what I said. I said that there was a known "Arabist" faction within the civil service that at best perceived the world through a geo-political lens whereby it was important to secure the UK's energy supplies; and at worst, it was anti-semitic.

    I love how those on the left will die in a ditch to show how the UK is institutionally biased against any minority you care to name except the Jews towards whom they showed exemplary equanimity and impartiality.
    Er, I quoted you directly. (And by the way, I don't regard myself as being 'on the left'.)
    You are mistaken. I don't like using the term liar as it gets us nowhere.

    Me: The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations
    You "quoting" me: they always prioritize oil supply over everything else as you state

    Can you see the difference?


  • Quite a recovery for SKS
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559116580721758209

    Liz Truss has a very easy win open to her. She sets out her own plan in a couple of weeks, then adds “and I am not ruling out further action if required. Including emergency renationalisation as we have already done with some rail franchises and the banks”. Where’s Keir then?

    She'll lost Bart!

    That tweet makes no sense whatsoever.
    So Hodges' criticism of Sir Keir is that he's been mute while Liz goes around promising to nationalize on scale that would make Atlee blush. Did the Tory membership receive that particular memo?
    That one aspect of it. The other is that simply announcing any old plan is an "easy win" for her.
    Government would be oh so simple if that were true.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,984
    edited August 2022

    "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.

    Ideally, you store the energy from solar, though the technology isn't quite there yet. But right now, gas storage works as a reasonable proxy, and that does work if we can be bothered.

    Use solar as much as you can when it's there. That means you use less gas. That's fine as long as you store the not-used-today gas for nighttime and cloudy days.

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, basically.
    As I said storing energy from day to night is viable, and if it wasn't countercyclical then solar would be perfect for that as it is in places like California.

    Storing energy from summer to winter, not so much, which is why stuff like tidal or wind is a more serious proposition in the UK. Wind and tidal energy can if at a surplus be stored for a few hours or days until its needed, not for six months at a time.

    Absolutely agreed with don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, which is why I have said we absolutely can and should install solar where it is economically viable but where it is not economically viable we should be looking at any subsidies going to address our strategic situations which is that we are an island nation that needs peak energy supply in the winter, not the summer.

    Storing wind for a week when we have low pressure is far more sustainable than storing solar from July to use in January.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    I’ve often wondered: is that an “anti semitic trope”?

    Because Jews really are good at business, compared to the average.


    “Jews Make-Up 19% Of Forbes 200 World’s Richest List”

    https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2018/03/07/jews-make-19-forbes-200-worlds-richest-list/


    So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”

    At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    HYUFD said:

    if she leads the party to heavy defeat though we will swiftly be back to traditional conservatism

    There is no place for traditional conservatism in the party of BoZo and Truss.

    He expelled them all for not supporting his lunatic Brexit plan.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.

    That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    You said privatised is always more efficient than nationalised. Those were your words. So let's privatise the army.

    It works with Wagner and Constellis. A British PMC would probably be quite successful and useful.

    Although the tories would probably put that woman who looks like Mark E. Smith in charge of it and fuck it all up.
    There's a difference between groups of mercenaries and regular armies.
    I'm not sure there's a huge amount of evidence for the effectiveness of the Wagner Group (other than their ability to perpetrate atrocities) when they're opposed by a military with decent equipment and training, as in Ukraine.
    And btw, their OpSec is shit.
    https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1559096523820044288
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    if she leads the party to heavy defeat though we will swiftly be back to traditional conservatism

    There is no place for traditional conservatism in the party of BoZo and Truss.

    He expelled them all for not supporting his lunatic Brexit plan.
    No, he expelled those who were diehard Remainers. Boris himself has always supported our constitutional monarchy and economically was no libertarian either whereas Truss' administration largely will be
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    I’ve often wondered: is that an “anti semitic trope”?

    Because Jews really are good at business, compared to the average.


    “Jews Make-Up 19% Of Forbes 200 World’s Richest List”

    https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2018/03/07/jews-make-19-forbes-200-worlds-richest-list/


    So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”

    At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
    No - at worst it is code for "Jews are ruthless, money-obsessed and untrustworthy, in a secret conspiracy to control the world".

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited August 2022

    "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.

    Ideally, you store the energy from solar, though the technology isn't quite there yet. But right now, gas storage works as a reasonable proxy, and that does work if we can be bothered.

    Use solar as much as you can when it's there. That means you use less gas. That's fine as long as you store the not-used-today gas for nighttime and cloudy days.

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, basically.
    As I said storing energy from day to night is viable, and if it wasn't countercyclical then solar would be perfect for that as it is in places like California.

    Storing energy from summer to winter, not so much, which is why stuff like tidal or wind is a more serious proposition in the UK. Wind and tidal energy can if at a surplus be stored for a few hours or days until its needed, not for six months at a time.

    Absolutely agreed with don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, which is why I have said we absolutely can and should install solar where it is economically viable but where it is not economically viable we should be looking at any subsidies going to address our strategic situations which is that we are an island nation that needs peak energy supply in the winter, not the summer.

    Storing wind for a week when we have low pressure is far more sustainable than storing solar from July to use in January.
    I'm not going to argue about this because I know nothing and in any case nobody else is convincing you but listen to the podcast I linked upthread and see if it changes some of your assumptions.
    https://open.spotify.com/show/1te7oSFyRVekxMBJUSethH
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    I’ve often wondered: is that an “anti semitic trope”?

    Because Jews really are good at business, compared to the average.


    “Jews Make-Up 19% Of Forbes 200 World’s Richest List”

    https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2018/03/07/jews-make-19-forbes-200-worlds-richest-list/


    So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”

    At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
    No - at worst it is code for "Jews are ruthless, money-obsessed and untrustworthy, in a secret conspiracy to control the world".

    No, that’s your anti-Semitic interpretation of her words
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359
    TOPPING said:

    fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.

    That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.

    It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).

    It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,153
    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.

    For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.

    That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.

    At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
    Is that really what they do?!

    Jesus f Christ

    Is this private or public sector?
    The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,359

    Mildly amused at the horror of mentioning anti-Semitism [I'm never sure about how/if to capitalise that] regarding 'woke' nonsense, when a major part of the Woke shtick is the evil of whites (and those pesky Koreans who don't get to be an ethnic minority any more and are considered white for committing the sin of success).

    On the Marxist Left these positions are entirely consistent: they see racism as prejudice plus power and, because they believe "they hold all the power", it cannot be racist to exercise those prejudices.

    I think they view Koreans/Chinese who do very well in the existing system as accomplices and traitors to the cause, and, so, also fair game.
    Your place of work does sound as if it's run by Woko Haram.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.

    That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.

    It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).

    It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
    I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'

    Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,309
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.

    For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.

    That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.

    At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
    Is that really what they do?!

    Jesus f Christ

    Is this private or public sector?
    The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
    @Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us

    This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    HYUFD said:

    No, he expelled those who were diehard Remainers.

    He expelled Conservatives. Churchill's grandson. People who were right about his NI deal. Even BoZo now agrees with them it was shite.
  • "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.

    Ideally, you store the energy from solar, though the technology isn't quite there yet. But right now, gas storage works as a reasonable proxy, and that does work if we can be bothered.

    Use solar as much as you can when it's there. That means you use less gas. That's fine as long as you store the not-used-today gas for nighttime and cloudy days.

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, basically.
    As I said storing energy from day to night is viable, and if it wasn't countercyclical then solar would be perfect for that as it is in places like California.

    Storing energy from summer to winter, not so much, which is why stuff like tidal or wind is a more serious proposition in the UK. Wind and tidal energy can if at a surplus be stored for a few hours or days until its needed, not for six months at a time.

    Absolutely agreed with don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, which is why I have said we absolutely can and should install solar where it is economically viable but where it is not economically viable we should be looking at any subsidies going to address our strategic situations which is that we are an island nation that needs peak energy supply in the winter, not the summer.

    Storing wind for a week when we have low pressure is far more sustainable than storing solar from July to use in January.
    I'm not going to argue about this because I know nothing and in any case nobody else is convincing you but listen to the podcast I linked upthread and see if it changes some of your assumptions.
    https://open.spotify.com/show/1te7oSFyRVekxMBJUSethH
    That's link is bringing up a list of episodes not just one, so which specific one do you mean? The one at the top is called "Just how bad will the energy crisis be in Europe this winter?" do you mean that one, or a different one?

    As I said, I agree that installing solar can be good economics, especially for summer, but for winter I don't think it addresses our security concerns as solar is countercyclical to our energy demands.

    If you don't want to take my word for it, look at Gridwatch in Percentage mode. Through the summer solar can provide 5-10% of our electricity consumption but through most of the winter it provides 0.25%-0.6% of our electricity supply. And that's before we replace gas central heating with electricity powered heating units in the winter which will make the problem even worse.

    If there's a Podcast that addresses those concerns I'd be curious to listen to it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,658
    edited August 2022

    Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
    I think Bart is just a contrarian. I suspect that if you said "Black and white are different colours" he would argue with you :D
    I think Truss is a Contrarion.

    Fine when wanting to look freshly at orthodox solutions as an academic exercise or on a PB like discussion platform, but sometimes the orthodoxy is correct, and upending it is not a constructive approach.

    A Contrarian willing to listen and be persuaded is fine, albeit can make for slow progress. One convinced of her own rectitude who doesn't listen or have empathy is a problem. I suspect that is how Truss will be as PM.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,072
    "I think it's a good thing for a person to go to prison for a short while."

    https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/1559113107724697600
    Today marks 75 years since the partition of India.

    In June 1953, independent India's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru appeared on the BBC for his television debut.


    Remarkable piece of archive footage.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Cyclefree said:

    City of London has lost 14% of its restaurants since 2020
    Hospitality sector in Square Mile hobbled by switch to homeworking

    https://www.ft.com/content/f5f59e08-1dd4-41bb-a6f0-714e5c3ae47e (£££)

    The cost of energy is going to cause difficulties for a lot of retail outlets, not just hospitality.
    Sean_F said:

    A PSCO confronted a woman for having a sticker saying "trans-ideology erases women" on their door.

    @Fox_Claire
    Listen to whole of this. It's freaked me out. Furious too. An official from police explicitly says you can only express your views privately, lectures on need to be better informed re trans, when she spouts misinformation & deploys tears & threats. Coercive & bullying. For a sticker.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/Fox_Claire/status/1558978910645374977

    It's always disturbing when police officers don't actually understand the law that they're trying to enforce.
    It's worse than that. The police officer wasn't misunderstanding a law they were trying to enforce but was making up non-existent laws, in part because they have been wrongly trained to believe that saying something others might disagree with is some sort of "crime".
    I believe the official police position to these events is 'It all works out in the end, no big deal', ignoring just how worrying it is for people to be confronted by official powers, expecially official powers acting well beyond their powers.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    ..
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    I’ve often wondered: is that an “anti semitic trope”?

    Because Jews really are good at business, compared to the average.


    “Jews Make-Up 19% Of Forbes 200 World’s Richest List”

    https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2018/03/07/jews-make-19-forbes-200-worlds-richest-list/


    So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”

    At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
    No - at worst it is code for "Jews are ruthless, money-obsessed and untrustworthy, in a secret conspiracy to control the world".

    Can't remember if the right on here currently see Farage as the great liberator & most influential politician of the last 20 years, or an embarassing old twat; the way Brexit's going probably tending to the latter. Anyway, a fine example of the dog whistlers to which you allude.

    "Jewish groups and MPs condemn Nigel Farage over antisemitic 'dog whistles'"

    https://tinyurl.com/5bfhzhr8
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,946
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    No one sane believes the British Civil Service is staffed with anti-Semites.
    The British civil service has long prioritised oil supply over other considerations and you know where most of that comes from, now, don't you.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/20775052
    In that case I suppose we'll next be hearing that the Civil Service is secretly drawing up plans to secure victory for Putin.
    Who knows. I don't think Saudi was ever waging war on the periphery of the UK's borders so perhaps the analogy is not as acute as you believe.
    Well, if they always prioritize oil supply over everything else as you state then the war in Ukraine shouldn't make a difference.
    Which of course is not what I said. I said that there was a known "Arabist" faction within the civil service that at best perceived the world through a geo-political lens whereby it was important to secure the UK's energy supplies; and at worst, it was anti-semitic.

    I love how those on the left will die in a ditch to show how the UK is institutionally biased against any minority you care to name except the Jews towards whom they showed exemplary equanimity and impartiality.
    The left are also not exactly pro those from the Far East either, certainly the rich capitalist ones. Hence British Chinese vote almost as strongly Conservative as British Jews now do

    https://www.neehao.co.uk/british-chinese-more-likely-to-vote-conservative/
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.

    That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.

    It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).

    It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
    You really don't have a clue, do you? Perhaps that's why you refer to a state-broadcaster comedy show from 40 years ago. Do you know which country Haganah and the Irgun (then called terrorists) took Palestine from? Have you heard of the King David Hotel bombing? There used to be a very strong memory too, not just in the British armed forces but throughout much of the British bourgeoisie, of events such as this one: "Night of the Beatings". At some English private schools where anti-Semitism was strong, the term "Jewish" was employed to mean "cruel".
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited August 2022

    "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.

    Ideally, you store the energy from solar, though the technology isn't quite there yet. But right now, gas storage works as a reasonable proxy, and that does work if we can be bothered.

    Use solar as much as you can when it's there. That means you use less gas. That's fine as long as you store the not-used-today gas for nighttime and cloudy days.

    Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, basically.
    As I said storing energy from day to night is viable, and if it wasn't countercyclical then solar would be perfect for that as it is in places like California.

    Storing energy from summer to winter, not so much, which is why stuff like tidal or wind is a more serious proposition in the UK. Wind and tidal energy can if at a surplus be stored for a few hours or days until its needed, not for six months at a time.

    Absolutely agreed with don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, which is why I have said we absolutely can and should install solar where it is economically viable but where it is not economically viable we should be looking at any subsidies going to address our strategic situations which is that we are an island nation that needs peak energy supply in the winter, not the summer.

    Storing wind for a week when we have low pressure is far more sustainable than storing solar from July to use in January.
    I'm not going to argue about this because I know nothing and in any case nobody else is convincing you but listen to the podcast I linked upthread and see if it changes some of your assumptions.
    https://open.spotify.com/show/1te7oSFyRVekxMBJUSethH
    That's link is bringing up a list of episodes not just one, so which specific one do you mean? The one at the top is called "Just how bad will the energy crisis be in Europe this winter?" do you mean that one, or a different one?

    As I said, I agree that installing solar can be good economics, especially for summer, but for winter I don't think it addresses our security concerns as solar is countercyclical to our energy demands.

    If you don't want to take my word for it, look at Gridwatch in Percentage mode. Through the summer solar can provide 5-10% of our electricity consumption but through most of the winter it provides 0.25%-0.6% of our electricity supply. And that's before we replace gas central heating with electricity powered heating units in the winter which will make the problem even worse.

    If there's a Podcast that addresses those concerns I'd be curious to listen to it.
    Yes, the top one, about the energy crisis in Europe. Listen to how they describe the world gas market working.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.

    A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,790
    Mr. Leon/Mr. kinabalu, indoctrinating children into this nonsense is rather more alarming than some seem to think.

    As this video rather shows:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3wJ7pJUjg
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Dynamo said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.

    That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.

    It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).

    It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
    You really don't have a clue, do you? Perhaps that's why you refer to a state-broadcaster comedy show from 40 years ago. Do you know which country Haganah and the Irgun (then called terrorists) took Palestine from? Have you heard of the King David Hotel bombing? There used to be a very strong memory too, not just in the British armed forces but throughout much of the British bourgeoisie, of events such as this one: "Night of the Beatings". At some English private schools where anti-Semitism was strong, the term "Jewish" was employed to mean "cruel".
    Yes you are absolutely right. They terrorised the British during this time and I'm sure that had an effect on the Brits' perception of the Jews. That perception didn't start in the 1940s but that's another conversation.

    As with all such movements we can discuss whether it was terrorism or freedom fighting until the cows come home.

    Another factor perhaps interesting and relevant to your response is that of course thereafter (1960s onwards) Israel/Palestine became (one of the first of the?) proxy wars between, ahem, the Soviet Union and the West, with the Soviet Union backing the arabs and the West backing the Jews. Not that that of course would inform your virulence over the matter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
    I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
    The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1558054198788427777?t=fXijfbYWkVEOah8QvRAXtA&s=19
    I’ve often wondered: is that an “anti semitic trope”?

    Because Jews really are good at business, compared to the average.


    “Jews Make-Up 19% Of Forbes 200 World’s Richest List”

    https://jewishbusinessnews.com/2018/03/07/jews-make-19-forbes-200-worlds-richest-list/


    So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”

    At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
    No - at worst it is code for "Jews are ruthless, money-obsessed and untrustworthy, in a secret conspiracy to control the world".

    No, that’s your anti-Semitic interpretation of her words
    I don't think the suggestion was that was her intent in using those words, just that even seemingly benign crude stereotypes, can lead to darker places than it might first appear.

    I mean, what benefit was there to Truss in using such a broad stereotype to promote her politics in the first place? To use one of your examples, should she say those of jamaican ancestry should naturally support the Conservatives as the party was investing in running tracks?

    That example is deliberately absurd, but the point is still that it was just silly to so quickly move between casting allegations at others and then using lazy stereotypes herself, however positively she intended it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    if she leads the party to heavy defeat though we will swiftly be back to traditional conservatism

    There is no place for traditional conservatism in the party of BoZo and Truss.

    He expelled them all for not supporting his lunatic Brexit plan.
    No, he expelled those who were diehard Remainers. Boris himself has always supported our constitutional monarchy and economically was no libertarian either whereas Truss' administration largely will be
    How does "support" equate with lying through his teeth to it!?

    Edit: I haven't quite got the hang of this dictation business yet!
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Dynamo said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.

    That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.

    It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).

    It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
    You really don't have a clue, do you? Perhaps that's why you refer to a state-broadcaster comedy show from 40 years ago. Do you know which country Haganah and the Irgun (then called terrorists) took Palestine from? Have you heard of the King David Hotel bombing? There used to be a very strong memory too, not just in the British armed forces but throughout much of the British bourgeoisie, of events such as this one: "Night of the Beatings". At some English private schools where anti-Semitism was strong, the term "Jewish" was employed to mean "cruel".
    Britain has of course flogged a large amount of weaponry over the decades to the royalist despotisms it installed in the Gulf, but it has also maintained friendly relations with Israel. For example not much of a fuss was kicked up about nuclear proliferation when Israel was the country being proliferated to. There was also Suez in 1956, with cooperation, or "collusion" to use the polite word, between Britain and France and Israel, but curiously, not with the US. Then in the subsequent war that lasted six days, Britain declared neutrality.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    "it doesn't work when the sun goes in" is a debate I thought we'd settled like 15 years ago.

    No of course not, that's why you store the electricity.

    You need to store a lot though for dark winter nights. Best approach is a mix, and tidal has to play a part.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    Bart thinks solar doesn't work. Man is a prat on this
    I think Bart is just a contrarian. I suspect that if you said "Black and white are different colours" he would argue with you :D
    I think Truss is a Contrarion.

    Fine when wanting to look freshly at orthodox solutions as an academic exercise or on a PB like discussion platform, but sometimes the orthodoxy is correct, and upending it is not a constructive approach.

    See a corollary, the 'it upsets the right people' approach.
  • Pulpstar said:

    .

    Pulpstar said:

    I note this bit of Labour's plans

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1559104027568242688

    has barely been covered, had no idea they had plans regarding future supply tbh - not seen it covered anywhere else by UK journalists other than one snarky tweet Coverage 100% about the cap.

    Stupid, ridiculous gesture politics.

    The UK is a country that needs power for heating, not air conditioning, our exceptional present weather apart. Solar panels may be economic, in which case great, but they're not an alternative to gas at 5pm in December when the sun has already set. 🙄
    Solar's one of the cheapest marginal forms of electricity. We're running 50% of our power right now on CCGTs. The sun is out, if we weren't using that expensive gas at the moment we'd have it for winter.
    No we would not have that gas for winter because we have nowhere to store the stuff. I gather HMG and Centrica are now working to reopen the storage facility closed in 2017.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,717
    A glass-half-full person comments:
    The disruption to oil and gas supply is a global problem and is the cause of the price rises a.k.a. 'cost of living crisis'. It is a supply shock about which we can do nothing, a fait accompli. The policy issues that are being discussed can only mitigate the severity of the impact of the rising prices. This is global and it is one-off. A well-functioning market economy will react in the same way that the Le Chatalier principle works in thermodynamics - by adjusting to a new equilibrium in the least damaging manner. This process involves the inelasticities of (energy) supply and demand loosening up. For this to happen prices have to give the correct signals so as to encourage appropriate responses by suppliers and consumers. The price cap idea directly opposes the natural adjustment of the system by imposing constraints on the adjustment process. This is the opportunity cost of a price cap policy compared to a mitigation policy that does not interfere with prices. It could be quite substantial.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    SKS Guilty as charged of being a hyporite and a liar

    https://twitter.com/home?lang=en-gb
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,153
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1559098922697728001

    Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx

    This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.

    There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.

    My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.

    Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
    Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.

    Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.

    She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
    They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.

    For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.

    That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.

    At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
    Is that really what they do?!

    Jesus f Christ

    Is this private or public sector?
    The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
    @Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us

    This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
    Yada yada.

    The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.

    The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
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