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PM Truss’s first test – the energy cost crisis – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited August 2022 in General
imagePM Truss’s first test – the energy cost crisis – politicalbetting.com

The screen grab above is from the front page of the Times and sets out neatly the very big decision that the new PM will have to take when she takes over early next month. Starmer has put forward his freeze bills plan and YouGov polling appears to show that this is resonating with voters. That three in four CON voters want to do what Starmer is suggesting make this a tricky one for Truss.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,808
    Lights switched on.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,576
    Average last 10 polls

    Lab 38.6%
    Con 33.7%
    LD 12.0%
    Green 5.8%
    SNP 4.2%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2022
  • Options
    Betfair next prime minister
    1.09 Liz Truss 92%
    11.5 Rishi Sunak 9%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.09 Liz Truss 92%
    11.5 Rishi Sunak 9%
  • Options
    Boris takes more foreign holidays than @Leon.
    The Telegraph reports the Prime Minister has been filmed shopping in Greece, as per this video. That's his second in as many weeks, isn't it? Third if you count Chequers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=731obOKdTr4
  • Options
    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)
  • Options
    City of London has lost 14% of its restaurants since 2020
    Hospitality sector in Square Mile hobbled by switch to homeworking

    https://www.ft.com/content/f5f59e08-1dd4-41bb-a6f0-714e5c3ae47e (£££)
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,576

    Here's hoping this tentative good news for the US will spread in your direction:
    "Many of the global prices for food, fuel and fertilizer that spiked when Russia invaded Ukraine have returned to their prewar levels, defying the most dire forecasts even as policymakers warn of the continued risk of famine and financial crisis in the developing world.
    . . .
    Wheat is now less expensive than when the war began. Brent crude oil, the global benchmark, hovers around its mid-February level of $97 per barrel. And the price of urea fertilizer, which almost doubled in the war’s first weeks, is back to its prewar level."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/13/food-fuel-lower-prices/

    Now I understand, and the rest of the article emphasizes, that the strength of the US dollar makes it harder for much of the world, especially third world countries that are badly managed. But I think in the long run -- if these decreases persist or, even better prices drop still further, it will be, net, good for the world. Including Britain.

    London is full of American tourists at the moment taking advantage of the exchange rate.
  • Options
    Hustings this week:-

    Tuesday Perth
    Wednesday Belfast
    Friday Manchester

    https://www.conservatives.com/hustings
  • Options
    vikvik Posts: 157
    Some more evidence against the idea that the GOP is abandoning Trump:

    Rand Paul is now calling for a repeal of the Espionage Act, because any law that Trump broke is obviously an unjust law.

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    edited August 2022

    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)

    This is dystopian, but it is hard to see how it can be held back.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/08/future-lawyers-could-bill-units-of-attention-via-computers-hooked-up-to-their-brains/

    "It’s impact on criminal law and the criminal justice system is another important theme for Dr McCay. His research moots the idea of brain-bracelets being worn by criminal offenders to track their thoughts, court orders being granted that ensure your brain is monitored at all times and considers the possibility of criminalising and sentencing thoughts that become criminal acts.

    According to Dr McCay, this all “raises human rights concerns and there is now an important debate as to whether existing human rights protections are fit for purpose given the possibility of brain-monitoring and manipulation.”
  • Options
    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,796
    vik said:

    Some more evidence against the idea that the GOP is abandoning Trump:

    Rand Paul is now calling for a repeal of the Espionage Act, because any law that Trump broke is obviously an unjust law.

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209

    We have to think carefully about how to avoid politics descending in to the type of war that we see in the USA, hopefully this will be one positive thing about the forced retirement of Johnson. But there are a lot of problems with the "woke left" as well.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,576
    darkage said:

    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)

    This is dystopian, but it is hard to see how it can be held back.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/08/future-lawyers-could-bill-units-of-attention-via-computers-hooked-up-to-their-brains/

    "It’s impact on criminal law and the criminal justice system is another important theme for Dr McCay. His research moots the idea of brain-bracelets being worn by criminal offenders to track their thoughts, court orders being granted that ensure your brain is monitored at all times and considers the possibility of criminalising and sentencing thoughts that become criminal acts.

    According to Dr McCay, this all “raises human rights concerns and there is now an important debate as to whether existing human rights protections are fit for purpose given the possibility of brain-monitoring and manipulation.”
    It must be held back. We don't want to live in a 1984-style society.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,137
    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)

    This is dystopian, but it is hard to see how it can be held back.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/08/future-lawyers-could-bill-units-of-attention-via-computers-hooked-up-to-their-brains/

    "It’s impact on criminal law and the criminal justice system is another important theme for Dr McCay. His research moots the idea of brain-bracelets being worn by criminal offenders to track their thoughts, court orders being granted that ensure your brain is monitored at all times and considers the possibility of criminalising and sentencing thoughts that become criminal acts.

    According to Dr McCay, this all “raises human rights concerns and there is now an important debate as to whether existing human rights protections are fit for purpose given the possibility of brain-monitoring and manipulation.”
    It must be held back. We don't want to live in a 1984-style society.
    It’s a good idea if you ask me. I’ve spent so much time thinking about client files without billing for it. Having evidence that I’ve been doing so will help enormously when arguing over the invoice.

  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)

    This is dystopian, but it is hard to see how it can be held back.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/08/future-lawyers-could-bill-units-of-attention-via-computers-hooked-up-to-their-brains/

    "It’s impact on criminal law and the criminal justice system is another important theme for Dr McCay. His research moots the idea of brain-bracelets being worn by criminal offenders to track their thoughts, court orders being granted that ensure your brain is monitored at all times and considers the possibility of criminalising and sentencing thoughts that become criminal acts.

    According to Dr McCay, this all “raises human rights concerns and there is now an important debate as to whether existing human rights protections are fit for purpose given the possibility of brain-monitoring and manipulation.”
    It must be held back. We don't want to live in a 1984-style society.
    A future opening for Leon, there, as test-pilot for the beta version?

    If it can cope with the thoughts that pass through his head, it’ll be good to go.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    darkage said:

    vik said:

    Some more evidence against the idea that the GOP is abandoning Trump:

    Rand Paul is now calling for a repeal of the Espionage Act, because any law that Trump broke is obviously an unjust law.

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209

    We have to think carefully about how to avoid politics descending in to the type of war that we see in the USA, hopefully this will be one positive thing about the forced retirement of Johnson. But there are a lot of problems with the "woke left" as well.
    That last bit is pure whatabout.

    In that vein, a more pertinent whatabout.

    https://twitter.com/PoliticusSarah/status/1558561082880450562
    Peter Strzok calls out GOP FBI hypocrites, "I spent a year and a half working on Hillary Clinton's e-mail server. Where we executed multiple
    search warrants. I never heard one Republican once raise a finger talking about how we were using Gestapo tactics or overreaching."
  • Options

    Here's hoping this tentative good news for the US will spread in your direction:
    "Many of the global prices for food, fuel and fertilizer that spiked when Russia invaded Ukraine have returned to their prewar levels, defying the most dire forecasts even as policymakers warn of the continued risk of famine and financial crisis in the developing world.
    . . .
    Wheat is now less expensive than when the war began. Brent crude oil, the global benchmark, hovers around its mid-February level of $97 per barrel. And the price of urea fertilizer, which almost doubled in the war’s first weeks, is back to its prewar level."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/13/food-fuel-lower-prices/

    Now I understand, and the rest of the article emphasizes, that the strength of the US dollar makes it harder for much of the world, especially third world countries that are badly managed. But I think in the long run -- if these decreases persist or, even better prices drop still further, it will be, net, good for the world. Including Britain.

    A litre of Unleaded in my area is back down to approx 167.9 which should not feel cheap but does a bit when I filled up a couple of weeks ago at 195.9

    Hopefully it continues going in the right direction.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,120

    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)

    From a short speculative paragraph in a 29-page report dealing with potentially serious issues concerning neuro-technology, to the worst kind of crazy click-bait, Daily-Sport-style headline in the Times in one step. And the Times has the gall to try to charge for its nonsense, when the whole report is available free online!
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    darkage said:

    Lawyers with brain chip implants will be better, faster and cheaper
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lawyers-with-brain-chip-implants-will-be-better-faster-and-cheaper-3258f8clh (£££)

    This is dystopian, but it is hard to see how it can be held back.

    https://www.legalcheek.com/2022/08/future-lawyers-could-bill-units-of-attention-via-computers-hooked-up-to-their-brains/

    "It’s impact on criminal law and the criminal justice system is another important theme for Dr McCay. His research moots the idea of brain-bracelets being worn by criminal offenders to track their thoughts, court orders being granted that ensure your brain is monitored at all times and considers the possibility of criminalising and sentencing thoughts that become criminal acts.

    According to Dr McCay, this all “raises human rights concerns and there is now an important debate as to whether existing human rights protections are fit for purpose given the possibility of brain-monitoring and manipulation.”
    It must be held back. We don't want to live in a 1984-style society.
    A future opening for Leon, there, as test-pilot for the beta version?

    If it can cope with the thoughts that pass through his head, it’ll be good to go.
    In Leon's case he won't be billing them, he'll be issuing refunds.
  • Options
    IcarusIcarus Posts: 898
    On Topic. Truss has made it clear that she doesn't favour cutting energy costs for all. It will be too late to stop the £400 grant already announced (which pays households £66 a month from October to March), but she seems to be suggesting that there will be no further universal hand outs. Conservative voters, some with above average sized houses, will be hit with massive bill increases -it is a cap on the rate not the total amount charged.

    Meanwhile expect massive profit increases from oil and energy suppliers.

    Conservative members should demand answers from both candidates for leadership now.

  • Options
    Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,386
    darkage said:

    vik said:

    Some more evidence against the idea that the GOP is abandoning Trump:

    Rand Paul is now calling for a repeal of the Espionage Act, because any law that Trump broke is obviously an unjust law.

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209

    We have to think carefully about how to avoid politics descending in to the type of war that we see in the USA, hopefully this will be one positive thing about the forced retirement of Johnson. But there are a lot of problems with the "woke left" as well.
    Or the "racist right"
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    The unstoppable force of the cost of living crisis is about to meet the immovable object of the inadequacy of Liz Truss.

    It's going to be spectacular.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,056
    A PSCO confronted a woman for having a sticker saying "trans-ideology erases women" on their door.

    @Fox_Claire
    Listen to whole of this. It's freaked me out. Furious too. An official from police explicitly says you can only express your views privately, lectures on need to be better informed re trans, when she spouts misinformation & deploys tears & threats. Coercive & bullying. For a sticker.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/Fox_Claire/status/1558978910645374977
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,244

    Here's hoping this tentative good news for the US will spread in your direction:
    "Many of the global prices for food, fuel and fertilizer that spiked when Russia invaded Ukraine have returned to their prewar levels, defying the most dire forecasts even as policymakers warn of the continued risk of famine and financial crisis in the developing world.
    . . .
    Wheat is now less expensive than when the war began. Brent crude oil, the global benchmark, hovers around its mid-February level of $97 per barrel. And the price of urea fertilizer, which almost doubled in the war’s first weeks, is back to its prewar level."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/13/food-fuel-lower-prices/

    Now I understand, and the rest of the article emphasizes, that the strength of the US dollar makes it harder for much of the world, especially third world countries that are badly managed. But I think in the long run -- if these decreases persist or, even better prices drop still further, it will be, net, good for the world. Including Britain.

    A litre of Unleaded in my area is back down to approx 167.9 which should not feel cheap but does a bit when I filled up a couple of weeks ago at 195.9

    Hopefully it continues going in the right direction.
    Recession induced fall in crude prices and crack spreads is underway. Worth bearing in mind that more Russian oil is reaching the global market today than before the invasion. I remain of the view that in 12-15 months time everyone will be shouting that central banks overdid their rate rises and no one will be much talking about headline inflation.

  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    vik said:

    Some more evidence against the idea that the GOP is abandoning Trump:

    Rand Paul is now calling for a repeal of the Espionage Act, because any law that Trump broke is obviously an unjust law.

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209

    Rand Paul is kind of a hack but TBF libertarians have objected to the Espionage Act for a long time, it's a pretty terrible law.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,525
    It is very hard to accept that only 75% of Tories agree with free money for themselves. This must be an outlier.
  • Options
    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?
  • Options
    pingping Posts: 3,731
    edited August 2022

    A PSCO confronted a woman for having a sticker saying "trans-ideology erases women" on their door.

    @Fox_Claire
    Listen to whole of this. It's freaked me out. Furious too. An official from police explicitly says you can only express your views privately, lectures on need to be better informed re trans, when she spouts misinformation & deploys tears & threats. Coercive & bullying. For a sticker.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/Fox_Claire/status/1558978910645374977

    Assuming it’s a real recording and not faked, that is rather chilling.

    Not that I agree with the sticker, just to clarify. But yeah, she’s well within her rights to hold those views and express them in public.
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
  • Options
    IcarusIcarus Posts: 898

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Such as the Conservative promise on immigration?

    "Home Office statistics show there has been a sharp increase in migration amid the easing of pandemic restrictions. The data shows 277,069 work-related visas were granted in the year ending March 2022 (including dependants), a 129% increase on the year ending March 2021 and a 50% increase on the year ending March 2020."
  • Options
    If you’re being politically outflanked and out-thought by Keir Starmer, you may have a bit of a problem on your hands.
  • Options

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    They are mostly all dim. Clueless about reality or detail or even realpolitik. Yes, She needs to win the votes of the rancid giffers. But apparently she is walking this election. So if its all maskirovka she could have chosen a whole different set of words which would not immediately hand the opposition their likely election-winning attacks if she reverses position.

    No, she is dim. "Just cut taxes". That'll do it. Clueless about the detail because her boss didn't care about that and he was PM and wasn't he marvellous?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,320
    Got that thing where I know Truss is going to win but I can't bring myself to heavily expose myself on Rishi for the sake of an extra £200-£300.

    I will regret this decision in 3 weeks.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,320

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Let me guess, you're the only bright one in town, right?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,975

    Good morning everyone.
    On this day back in 1945 I was seven and I remember being told by my mother that the war was finally, really, over and everything would be better.

    Therefore this day back in 1945, my dad lost a tooth whilst out on his bike.

    Whenever he smiles and I see the gap, I think of VJ Day...
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,320

    Here's hoping this tentative good news for the US will spread in your direction:
    "Many of the global prices for food, fuel and fertilizer that spiked when Russia invaded Ukraine have returned to their prewar levels, defying the most dire forecasts even as policymakers warn of the continued risk of famine and financial crisis in the developing world.
    . . .
    Wheat is now less expensive than when the war began. Brent crude oil, the global benchmark, hovers around its mid-February level of $97 per barrel. And the price of urea fertilizer, which almost doubled in the war’s first weeks, is back to its prewar level."
    source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/13/food-fuel-lower-prices/

    Now I understand, and the rest of the article emphasizes, that the strength of the US dollar makes it harder for much of the world, especially third world countries that are badly managed. But I think in the long run -- if these decreases persist or, even better prices drop still further, it will be, net, good for the world. Including Britain.

    A litre of Unleaded in my area is back down to approx 167.9 which should not feel cheap but does a bit when I filled up a couple of weeks ago at 195.9

    Hopefully it continues going in the right direction.
    It sort of shows how little is within the immediate direct control of the British government.

    We only really have domestic suzerainty and, in a highly globalised economy, that can only take us so far.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    Icarus said:

    Such as the Conservative promise on immigration?

    "Home Office statistics show there has been a sharp increase in migration amid the easing of pandemic restrictions. The data shows 277,069 work-related visas were granted in the year ending March 2022 (including dependants), a 129% increase on the year ending March 2021 and a 50% increase on the year ending March 2020."

    And it's still not enough...

    Priti Patel is compiling a Little Black Book of cabinet ministers that have complained about staffin' shortages due to immigration constraints
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    edited August 2022

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.

    About to become PM doesn't make her smarter than you or I. More ambitious, certainly.

    Look at her cunning wheeze to cut public service pay outside London.

    She genuinely thought that was a great idea.

    Was it smart?
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Let me guess, you're the only bright one in town, right?
    What's the town? If it's this website, I think nearly everyone here can see what's wrong with the "cut taxes to cut inflation" idea as an actual policy (as opposed to as a pander to people who can't see what's wrong with it). There are very few people who can't, and those people are dim.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    I think Starmer is being too timid. But Conservative Ministers and MPs need to stop attacking his plan, and start saying "wait until we have a new PM". Because Truss or Sunak are going to need to do exactly the same, or go further. (Or lose the next election. Their choice).
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1559069025216483331

    And the flipside...

    This is what some Liz Truss supporters have to say about it

    https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1558682347482005504?s=20&t=IDI_twHUP9kpPYiYypO1dQ
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,144

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I suspect once she has won there will be a massive reverse ferret on this.

    She has proven herself to be very adaptable with her views.

    No reason to assume this will change after she has won.

    She has a political antenna, she knows the way the wind is blowing.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    Taz said:

    I suspect once she has won there will be a massive reverse ferret on this.

    She has proven herself to be very adaptable with her views.

    No reason to assume this will change after she has won.

    She has a political antenna, she knows the way the wind is blowing.

    See the quote from Redwood above.

    If she pivots to any form of reality based policy making, the bastards on the backbenches will crucify her
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    edited August 2022
    Good morning, everyone.

    As mentioned previously, I've started trying to bet on football again. Interesting comparing league performances. Doing well on the EPL, terribly on the Bundesliga. Hard to say if that's random bobbling or something else.

    My cunning strategy of backing teams to beat Manchester United has worked well so far.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,280
    edited August 2022
    Good morning

    As I understand it the Lib Dems and the SNP have proposed cancelling the October increase in energy and Labour have decided they think it is a good idea and are now claiming they have been working on it since July

    I am unsure why 100% of all voters would not want this largesse, but in all seriousness how much is the cost and where is the money coming from

    I assume the final landing spot on this will be the scheme put forward by the energy companies themselves

    It is clear the conservatives are marooned in their ridiculous and unnecessary protracted leader campaign and I simply have no idea whatsoever what Truss will do when elected, but it is clear that she has been romancing the membership but will have to adopt an energy price freeze of some form

    As for Johnson words cannot express my contempt for him and now he has gone on holiday again.

    He is a disgrace and shameless - good riddance
  • Options
    Taz said:

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I suspect once she has won there will be a massive reverse ferret on this.

    She has proven herself to be very adaptable with her views.

    No reason to assume this will change after she has won.

    She has a political antenna, she knows the way the wind is blowing.
    I think there has to be. Because the worst economic winter since 1979 is coming. The problem is that she has so stridently ruled out all of the options. Not just saying no, but saying *why* it must be no. Making it worse is that mental dimness like Simon Clarke are out ramping her nonsense.

    A reverse ferret will destroy her premiership. Because (a) she hands all the attack lines to the opposition, (b) her proposed solution will barely scratch the surface, (c) the u-turn will be incompetently messaged and then executed, and (d) the sneering tendency of the Tory party seems highly likely to be in her cabinet.

    Sunak has the political ability to do what is needed. Truss does not. "What crisis, no handouts, its un-Tory" to "our policies are very popular", to "we're looking at it", to "here's £15 off your next bill, handed to the energy companies to administer" to "look if its a problem you should get a better job".
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
    Have you ever travelled by train in chunks of England???? Transpennine Express and Avanti West Coast being prime examples of operators who have largely given up trying.
  • Options
    Quite funny when Sky asked the shadow financial secretary why would would Labour hand £2,000 to Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak rather than using universal credit to target support and it is not a progressive policy
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,176

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
    Have you ever travelled by train in chunks of England???? Transpennine Express and Avanti West Coast being prime examples of operators who have largely given up trying.
    The NZ point is that there is very little rail travel in NZ.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
    Have you ever travelled by train in chunks of England???? Transpennine Express and Avanti West Coast being prime examples of operators who have largely given up trying.
    I have travelled by train in both countries and they are simply not comparable - indeed New Zealand trains are really only suitable for holidaymakers
  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150
    edited August 2022

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Let me guess, you're the only bright one in town, right?
    What's the town? If it's this website, I think nearly everyone here can see what's wrong with the "cut taxes to cut inflation" idea as an actual policy (as opposed to as a pander to people who can't see what's wrong with it). There are very few people who can't, and those people are dim.
    If you define 'dim' as being slow to learn, or lacking quickness of a thought, then IMV *everyone* is 'dim' in some area or another. I could be seen as being 'dim' about classical music; however much I tried to learn about it, I just could not grasp it. Or languages: I found learning French very difficult compared to my friends. A friend has a doctorate, but is fairly 'dim' at maths.

    IMV the most dangerous people are those who are highly educated, and therefore believe that they can *never* be dim at anything. When their car breaks down, they think they know better than the mechanic. Or when they get legal advice, they know better than the lawyer because they have been a surgeon for decades.

    IMO that inability to grasp your intellectual limitations is a true sign of dimness.
    That's fair. Also a lot of the reason politicians have to run on ideas that they know aren't really as good as they sound is because the voters aren't paying attention, they'd work it out if they spent more time learning about it.

    That said, if you think about which posters here *used* to be Conservative members but left, with a fairly wide range of ideology, you can see there's been a selection effect in action since Boris took over.
  • Options
    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,708
    Quote from OP: "That three in four CON voters want to do what Starmer is suggesting make this a tricky one for Truss."

    Not really. First they'll claim its unworkable, then that they're looking into it but have a better alternative, before finally implementing it in full anyway whilst claiming they thought of it first and what Labour was going to do was something else entirely that was unworkable.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
    Have you ever travelled by train in chunks of England???? Transpennine Express and Avanti West Coast being prime examples of operators who have largely given up trying.
    I have travelled by train in both countries and they are simply not comparable - indeed New Zealand trains are really only suitable for holidaymakers
    That's better than Transpennine Express. Regular random cancellations of multiple trains both during rushours and out to places like Scarborough. Most trains cancelled into Leeds in the morning peak, and a 3 hour gap on a summer Saturday to Scarborough with a very early finish? Thats TPE.

    We seem to combine both insanely expensive pence per mile fares and total unreliability so that you'd have to be nuts / desperate to travel by train in parts of the UK.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Socrates made this point exactly when he was on trial for his life - "the most stupid people are those who think they know everything and, in fact, know nothing". His point being was that it was impossible for one individual to know everything - and this was 5th Century BC Greece.

    Unfortunately, there are too many people who think they do know everything and it's an attitude abetted by the rise of Wikipedia and Google Search....

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Let me guess, you're the only bright one in town, right?
    What's the town? If it's this website, I think nearly everyone here can see what's wrong with the "cut taxes to cut inflation" idea as an actual policy (as opposed to as a pander to people who can't see what's wrong with it). There are very few people who can't, and those people are dim.
    If you define 'dim' as being slow to learn, or lacking quickness of a thought, then IMV *everyone* is 'dim' in some area or another. I could be seen as being 'dim' about classical music; however much I tried to learn about it, I just could not grasp it. Or languages: I found learning French very difficult compared to my friends. A friend has a doctorate, but is fairly 'dim' at maths.

    IMV the most dangerous people are those who are highly educated, and therefore believe that they can *never* be dim at anything. When their car breaks down, they think they know better than the mechanic. Or when they get legal advice, they know better than the lawyer because they have been a surgeon for decades.

    IMO that inability to grasp your intellectual limitations is a true sign of dimness.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.

    About to become PM doesn't make her smarter than you or I. More ambitious, certainly.

    Look at her cunning wheeze to cut public service pay outside London.

    She genuinely thought that was a great idea.

    Was it smart?
    She also came up with the new Maths GCSE and is proud of it.

    Anyone who thinks that was a good idea is so dense even Richard Burgon would look down on them, or is so wilfully ignorant that David Irving would blink.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,830

    Quote from OP: "That three in four CON voters want to do what Starmer is suggesting make this a tricky one for Truss."

    Not really. First they'll claim its unworkable, then that they're looking into it but have a better alternative, before finally implementing it in full anyway whilst claiming they thought of it first and what Labour was going to do was something else entirely that was unworkable.

    Yes. Most voters don't care whether politicians perform U Turns, or do things that are philosophically inconsistent with their prior stated beliefs. Their attitude towards politics is instrumental.

    It's only political afficionados who get really worked up about this.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,176

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
    Have you ever travelled by train in chunks of England???? Transpennine Express and Avanti West Coast being prime examples of operators who have largely given up trying.
    I have travelled by train in both countries and they are simply not comparable - indeed New Zealand trains are really only suitable for holidaymakers
    That's better than Transpennine Express. Regular random cancellations of multiple trains both during rushours and out to places like Scarborough. Most trains cancelled into Leeds in the morning peak, and a 3 hour gap on a summer Saturday to Scarborough with a very early finish? Thats TPE.

    We seem to combine both insanely expensive pence per mile fares and total unreliability so that you'd have to be nuts / desperate to travel by train in parts of the UK.
    In context the cost to the NZ treasury will be minuscule, which is the point.
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 11,144

    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Have you ever travelled by train in New Zealand !!!!
    Have you ever travelled by train in chunks of England???? Transpennine Express and Avanti West Coast being prime examples of operators who have largely given up trying.
    TPE have new rolling stock which is much better but they still seem incapable of running on time once they get to York.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Let me guess, you're the only bright one in town, right?
    What's the town? If it's this website, I think nearly everyone here can see what's wrong with the "cut taxes to cut inflation" idea as an actual policy (as opposed to as a pander to people who can't see what's wrong with it). There are very few people who can't, and those people are dim.
    If you define 'dim' as being slow to learn, or lacking quickness of a thought, then IMV *everyone* is 'dim' in some area or another. I could be seen as being 'dim' about classical music; however much I tried to learn about it, I just could not grasp it. Or languages: I found learning French very difficult compared to my friends. A friend has a doctorate, but is fairly 'dim' at maths.

    IMV the most dangerous people are those who are highly educated, and therefore believe that they can *never* be dim at anything. When their car breaks down, they think they know better than the mechanic. Or when they get legal advice, they know better than the lawyer because they have been a surgeon for decades.

    IMO that inability to grasp your intellectual limitations is a true sign of dimness.
    Who was it said that Dominic Cummings would one day blow himself up because he will decide he knows more about the workings of his own boiler than a plumber?

    Not that he's ever struck me as being more than rather a superficial intellect.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,830
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.

    About to become PM doesn't make her smarter than you or I. More ambitious, certainly.

    Look at her cunning wheeze to cut public service pay outside London.

    She genuinely thought that was a great idea.

    Was it smart?
    She also came up with the new Maths GCSE and is proud of it.

    Anyone who thinks that was a good idea is so dense even Richard Burgon would look down on them, or is so wilfully ignorant that David Irving would blink.
    What does the new Maths GCSE do ?
  • Options
    Am reading more and more things about businesses being presented with unviable energy bills. There are "we'll have to close" news stories all across the country. One of our village takeaways has just unveiled reduced opening hours to reduce their bills on quieter days.

    Anyone who runs a small business knows how tight cashflow can get. Whilst there is an obvious option to borrow to invest in energy-saving kit (such as remove florescent strip lighting and replace with LEDs), business banking remains in the shit post-covid, and loans are not as easy to access as they were.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.

    About to become PM doesn't make her smarter than you or I. More ambitious, certainly.

    Look at her cunning wheeze to cut public service pay outside London.

    She genuinely thought that was a great idea.

    Was it smart?
    She also came up with the new Maths GCSE and is proud of it.

    Anyone who thinks that was a good idea is so dense even Richard Burgon would look down on them, or is so wilfully ignorant that David Irving would blink.
    What does the new Maths GCSE do ?
    Nothing. That's the problem. It was designed to be more rigorous, but in practice is less so due to the way it has to be marked, and it doesn't set you up for further study because it doesn't cover the right topics.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,830

    Got that thing where I know Truss is going to win but I can't bring myself to heavily expose myself on Rishi for the sake of an extra £200-£300.

    I will regret this decision in 3 weeks.

    I would not wish to expose myself on Rishi, either.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186
    Sean_F said:

    Got that thing where I know Truss is going to win but I can't bring myself to heavily expose myself on Rishi for the sake of an extra £200-£300.

    I will regret this decision in 3 weeks.

    I would not wish to expose myself on Rishi, either.
    I misread that as 'expose myself to Rishi,' and I was surprised you felt the need to assert that.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,830

    A PSCO confronted a woman for having a sticker saying "trans-ideology erases women" on their door.

    @Fox_Claire
    Listen to whole of this. It's freaked me out. Furious too. An official from police explicitly says you can only express your views privately, lectures on need to be better informed re trans, when she spouts misinformation & deploys tears & threats. Coercive & bullying. For a sticker.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/Fox_Claire/status/1558978910645374977

    It's always disturbing when police officers don't actually understand the law that they're trying to enforce.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892
    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,186
    Scott_xP said:

    There is no logic to pegging rail fares to inflation when inflation is driven by high commodity prices. 'Oh your energy bill and food just got more expensive, that means your commute automatically has to get more expensive as well. no you don't get more money to pay for it.'
    https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1559075092046483458

    Well, actually, there I don't agree. Not unless people have found a way of running trains without using oil or electricity.
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    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    I suspect once she has won there will be a massive reverse ferret on this.

    She has proven herself to be very adaptable with her views.

    No reason to assume this will change after she has won.

    She has a political antenna, she knows the way the wind is blowing.

    See the quote from Redwood above.

    If she pivots to any form of reality based policy making, the bastards on the backbenches will crucify her
    There are two ways of understanding Truss's approach to this campaign.

    One is that she realised that her only route to winning was via the "Love Boris, Hate the EU and reality" wing of the Conservative party. Throw them loads of red meat now, then deny it all as soon as she's replaced the soft furnishings in Downing Street. The trouble with that is that it's not going to be easy. The bastards are still out there and they are more numerous than in the mid-90s.

    The other is the she really believes all this stuff. And if we look at what she has said and written in the past, it's quite possible that we're seeing the real Truss here. Obsessed with freedom and fossil fuels, pining slightly for a red state somewhere in the USA. The trouble with that is that there's not much of a mandate for doing that, and I suspect (but can't prove) that it won't be what the Great British Public want.

    There are all sorts of combos of these two, and "she says she's doing X, thinks she is playing game Y, but is going to get trapped by Z" scenarios as well. But it's probably all less clever than it looks.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,892

    The other is the she really believes all this stuff. And if we look at what she has said and written in the past, it's quite possible that we're seeing the real Truss here.

    Yes, I think she really believes this stuff.

    And really thinks the headbangers are her friends.

    She believes in the power of positive thinking. Boosterism is her philosophy.

    The immovable object is about to meet the unstoppable force of reality.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Talking about interesting stories from the Times...James O'Brien's take on one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s25521TJOw
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,830
    edited August 2022

    On topic - I wonder if the denial of reality from Mistress Truss is simply because she is dim. She seemed very keen to ramp up all these new trade deals she had signed - seemingly not understanding any of the detail either of the "new" deal or the old one it was a copy/paste of.

    This seems to be a trend with this kind of Tory. Full of rhetoric, but clueless about detail. So as a zealot its entirely possible she is convinced that (a) people can just get better jobs if bills are high and (b) tax cuts solve everything.

    So don't assume a sudden change of direction in Number 10. Wilful denial of reality is what this government does best. The only question is who gets the sack first - her or Ten Hag?

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.
    Let me guess, you're the only bright one in town, right?
    What's the town? If it's this website, I think nearly everyone here can see what's wrong with the "cut taxes to cut inflation" idea as an actual policy (as opposed to as a pander to people who can't see what's wrong with it). There are very few people who can't, and those people are dim.
    If you define 'dim' as being slow to learn, or lacking quickness of a thought, then IMV *everyone* is 'dim' in some area or another. I could be seen as being 'dim' about classical music; however much I tried to learn about it, I just could not grasp it. Or languages: I found learning French very difficult compared to my friends. A friend has a doctorate, but is fairly 'dim' at maths.

    IMV the most dangerous people are those who are highly educated, and therefore believe that they can *never* be dim at anything. When their car breaks down, they think they know better than the mechanic. Or when they get legal advice, they know better than the lawyer because they have been a surgeon for decades.

    IMO that inability to grasp your intellectual limitations is a true sign of dimness.
    Agreed. I'd say I'm quite a good lawyer, and a good historian. That does not qualify me to fix a car, or explain genetics, or understand advanced mathematics. And, even in the fields I understand, there's always a lot more to learn.
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    StereodogStereodog Posts: 400
    Sean_F said:

    A PSCO confronted a woman for having a sticker saying "trans-ideology erases women" on their door.

    @Fox_Claire
    Listen to whole of this. It's freaked me out. Furious too. An official from police explicitly says you can only express your views privately, lectures on need to be better informed re trans, when she spouts misinformation & deploys tears & threats. Coercive & bullying. For a sticker.


    https://mobile.twitter.com/Fox_Claire/status/1558978910645374977

    It's always disturbing when police officers don't actually understand the law that they're trying to enforce.
    I completely appreciate that she was distressed and not thinking straight but I wouldn’t have got caught into debating ideology with that PCSO. I’d have asked her what law I was breaking and if she was prepared to charge me for it. If not it’s none of her damn business.

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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    Assertions about people in the public eye being dim or moronic display the speaker's own inadequacy more than anything else.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    vik said:

    Some more evidence against the idea that the GOP is abandoning Trump:

    Rand Paul is now calling for a repeal of the Espionage Act, because any law that Trump broke is obviously an unjust law.

    https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209

    Rand Paul is kind of a hack but TBF libertarians have objected to the Espionage Act for a long time, it's a pretty terrible law.
    It is.
    Wikipedia has a good entry on its history and provisions.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

    But calling for its repeal, rather than its reform is an empty gesture.
    Some form of law that covers espionage and state secrets is obviously necessary.

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    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Good morning everyone.
    On this day back in 1945 I was seven and I remember being told by my mother that the war was finally, really, over and everything would be better.

    Therefore this day back in 1945, my dad lost a tooth whilst out on his bike.

    Whenever he smiles and I see the gap, I think of VJ Day...
    Happy memories.

    Not so happy. On this day back in 2021 Kabul fell to the Taliban. Feels much longer ago to me.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    "Energy cap with Labour and the Lib Dems. Unaffordable price increases running to thousands with us."

    Don't think so. Expect another Truss "misrepresentation of my position"
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105

    I must take issue with the thread header.
    Aren't these proposals from Ed Davey, not Keir Starmer?

    Such is the way of things. Labour don't have a policy. LibDems propose a policy. Labour steal the policy, then attack the LibDems as being Tories.
    Then the Tories implement the policy. Because, you know, they are in power.
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    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't think she's dim, starting with the fact that she's about to become Prime Minister while you and I are posting about politics on the internet.

    She needs the votes of Conservative Party members, and Conservative Party members are dim. The way a non-dim person will do this is to make whatever promises you have to to get their votes, and not make any promises that aren't required to get their votes, and that's how she's playing it. Then once she gets elected she can do things that aren't stupid, subject to the need to appeal to the electorate at large, who are also dim.

    About to become PM doesn't make her smarter than you or I. More ambitious, certainly.

    Look at her cunning wheeze to cut public service pay outside London.

    She genuinely thought that was a great idea.

    Was it smart?
    She also came up with the new Maths GCSE and is proud of it.

    Anyone who thinks that was a good idea is so dense even Richard Burgon would look down on them, or is so wilfully ignorant that David Irving would blink.
    What does the new Maths GCSE do ?
    Nothing. That's the problem. It was designed to be more rigorous, but in practice is less so due to the way it has to be marked, and it doesn't set you up for further study because it doesn't cover the right topics.
    To expand on m'learned colleague's answer...

    It was hyped as a "big fat" GCSE. More topics were added, the questions were made harder. There used to be three versions of the exam, called Foundation, Intermediate and Higher, each covering a different range of likely final grades with an overlap between them. Intermediate was scrapped, which was the one centred on old grade C, new grade 4/5.

    Trouble is that the damn kids insist on learning maths at roughly the same rate, so adding more and harder topics just means that a lot of the questions on the exam are wasted, with virtually everyone getting zero. So from a purely technical point of view, the exams do a worse job of sorting better and worse mathematicians. That, and the scrapping of intermediate has meant more kids doing the foundation tier. And GCSE maths has become more of a grim route march through topics (because the curriculum is now big and fat) which doesn't leave time to get seriously good at anything.

    But if you look just at the documentation, the maths looks really hard, so job done.
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    It would also send the message, unlike Thatcher in the 1980s this lady is for turning.

    Thatcher often change strategies and tactics including some U turns.

    As usual the myth of Thatcher is the opposite of the reality of Thatcher.

    Mike is old enough to be aware of that.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678
    O/T but nice crab

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/15/discovered-in-the-deep-hairy-chested-hoff-crab

    Reminds me of those chaps who find the odd tasty crumb to nibble lurking in their beards left over from breakfast.
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    I must take issue with the thread header.
    Aren't these proposals from Ed Davey, not Keir Starmer?

    Such is the way of things. Labour don't have a policy. LibDems propose a policy. Labour steal the policy, then attack the LibDems as being Tories.
    Then the Tories implement the policy. Because, you know, they are in power.
    Though if you are just implementing someone else's policy, are you in power? Or just in office?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678

    Good morning everyone.
    On this day back in 1945 I was seven and I remember being told by my mother that the war was finally, really, over and everything would be better.

    Therefore this day back in 1945, my dad lost a tooth whilst out on his bike.

    Whenever he smiles and I see the gap, I think of VJ Day...
    At least Mrs C had not forgotten the servicemen out East. My dad was just out of his RN training establishment, and fully expecting to be sent out to the Indian or Pacific Oceans to maintain the very many anti-aircraft guns now needed on every ship within range of a kamikaze, of which he had heard plenty messdeck accounts. Very relieved chap.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,150

    Scott_xP said:

    Taz said:

    I suspect once she has won there will be a massive reverse ferret on this.

    She has proven herself to be very adaptable with her views.

    No reason to assume this will change after she has won.

    She has a political antenna, she knows the way the wind is blowing.

    See the quote from Redwood above.

    If she pivots to any form of reality based policy making, the bastards on the backbenches will crucify her
    There are two ways of understanding Truss's approach to this campaign.

    One is that she realised that her only route to winning was via the "Love Boris, Hate the EU and reality" wing of the Conservative party. Throw them loads of red meat now, then deny it all as soon as she's replaced the soft furnishings in Downing Street. The trouble with that is that it's not going to be easy. The bastards are still out there and they are more numerous than in the mid-90s.

    The other is the she really believes all this stuff. And if we look at what she has said and written in the past, it's quite possible that we're seeing the real Truss here. Obsessed with freedom and fossil fuels, pining slightly for a red state somewhere in the USA. The trouble with that is that there's not much of a mandate for doing that, and I suspect (but can't prove) that it won't be what the Great British Public want.

    There are all sorts of combos of these two, and "she says she's doing X, thinks she is playing game Y, but is going to get trapped by Z" scenarios as well. But it's probably all less clever than it looks.
    I don't think she has to junk everything she promised. The British economy is big, the bad ideas she promised the members are small. But a primary->general pivot is standard politics, obviously she'll focus on the next election she has to win.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    Since everyone's doing it, here's my proposed solution for the mess we're in.

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1559080470024970241

    Realise the issue is at supply level, UK energy demand is going to grow - and it should; energy use and standard of living go hand in hand. Couple this with the fact we need the UK's population to grow anyway to function better as an economy and well...
    Commission the MET office to look into the availability of all natural power sources - wind, solar, tidal that would produce the remainder of almost always 45 GW available power that needs filling with the current CCGT burn. Add in nuclear, gas and heck even a bit of coal
    As needs must. Solve for the lowest cost to the UK consumer, both business and domestic going forward.
    It's basically a multivariate linear programming optimisation problem that would churn out an answer.
    Oh batteries would be included as well - anyway solve this equation, then set out a plan to implement the solution paid for with long term bonds.
    As for the current bills whilst this is being built ?
    First up no help for higher rate taxpayers - taper out the support from 40k -> 50k. More help for 20k and UC. Gov't loans available for energy intensive small bus so they don't go under. A few more checks than Rishi's scheme.
    There'd likely be gaps with the wind use required - just fill this with gas - CCGT does have a place but there's no way on God's green earth it should be 60% of generation.
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    Scott_xP said:

    Germany: Here's a €9 monthly season ticket to help with the cost of living 🚉

    Spain: We'll make commuter trains free for four months💪

    New Zealand: Things are tough😊time to cut all fares by 50%

    UK: Fares will go up by less than 11.8% don't forget to say thanks😏


    https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1559047285807390724

    Taxing everyone to give another subsidy to middle class train users is neither the way to help the poor or increase Conservative support.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    Boris takes more foreign holidays than @Leon.
    The Telegraph reports the Prime Minister has been filmed shopping in Greece, as per this video. That's his second in as many weeks, isn't it? Third if you count Chequers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=731obOKdTr4

    So what, even PMs are allowed a holiday. The Blairs used to spend most of August in Tuscany and the Camerons in Cornwall. Even May went walking in Switzerland and Brown forced himself to have a brief break in Southwold looking bored or with policy wonks in Cape Cod
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    Either way without tax increases extra subsidies beyond the poorest to help with energy bills just expand the deficit further
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,150
    Pulpstar said:

    Since everyone's doing it, here's my proposed solution for the mess we're in.

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1559080470024970241

    Realise the issue is at supply level, UK energy demand is going to grow - and it should; energy use and standard of living go hand in hand. Couple this with the fact we need the UK's population to grow anyway to function better as an economy and well...
    Commission the MET office to look into the availability of all natural power sources - wind, solar, tidal that would produce the remainder of almost always 45 GW available power that needs filling with the current CCGT burn. Add in nuclear, gas and heck even a bit of coal
    As needs must. Solve for the lowest cost to the UK consumer, both business and domestic going forward.
    It's basically a multivariate linear programming optimisation problem that would churn out an answer.
    Oh batteries would be included as well - anyway solve this equation, then set out a plan to implement the solution paid for with long term bonds.
    As for the current bills whilst this is being built ?
    First up no help for higher rate taxpayers - taper out the support from 40k -> 50k. More help for 20k and UC. Gov't loans available for energy intensive small bus so they don't go under. A few more checks than Rishi's scheme.
    There'd likely be gaps with the wind use required - just fill this with gas - CCGT does have a place but there's no way on God's green earth it should be 60% of generation.

    There's an idea worthy of Kantorovich and Gosplan.

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    Scott_xP said:

    The other is the she really believes all this stuff. And if we look at what she has said and written in the past, it's quite possible that we're seeing the real Truss here.

    Yes, I think she really believes this stuff.

    And really thinks the headbangers are her friends.

    She believes in the power of positive thinking. Boosterism is her philosophy.

    The immovable object is about to meet the unstoppable force of reality.
    One case for Liz Truss is that "her" policies have been taken pre-packaged by the fruitier end of Team Truss, and that she has been quick enough to drop them once their idiocy has been pointed out (the policies, not her supporters).
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    TazTaz Posts: 11,144

    Am reading more and more things about businesses being presented with unviable energy bills. There are "we'll have to close" news stories all across the country. One of our village takeaways has just unveiled reduced opening hours to reduce their bills on quieter days.

    Anyone who runs a small business knows how tight cashflow can get. Whilst there is an obvious option to borrow to invest in energy-saving kit (such as remove florescent strip lighting and replace with LEDs), business banking remains in the shit post-covid, and loans are not as easy to access as they were.

    I worry for the hospitality sector. The run up to Xmas is where they make a lot of money and the first couple of months of the year are much slower.

    Will there be the Xmas parties and people going out with fuel bills going up in October and these businesses will also be hammered. Especially places like chippies and curry houses.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,678
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Boris takes more foreign holidays than @Leon.
    The Telegraph reports the Prime Minister has been filmed shopping in Greece, as per this video. That's his second in as many weeks, isn't it? Third if you count Chequers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=731obOKdTr4

    So what, even PMs are allowed a holiday. The Blairs used to spend most of August in Tuscany and the Camerons in Cornwall. Even May went walking in Switzerland and Brown forced himself to have a brief break in Southwold looking bored or with policy wonks in Cape Cod
    At a time of multiple crisis, at the end of his tenure*, a crucial time for any PM to make a permanent mark?

    *And when he has time to do something,. i.e. he has warning.

    He wasn't away before when it got to the point that him coming to a meeting was fodder for a front page headline in the Metro.
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