Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
That's a strange conclusion to reach from that post.
Not at all.
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
Kinabalu knows that 1 is the case. He just finds it irksome that those on the centre left and all points right are anti-anti-semitism on two entirely separate levels, both the obvious one because A Frank, holocaust, tolerance etc AND because his party elected a Leader so profoundly stupid that he was unable to recognise antisemitism in its most obvious form, in his party and in himself, and it is massive fun pointing this out. Again and again. The joke never gets old.
Yes I like BR's (1) - apart from the Truss ref obvs. That looks a rather generous interpretation of her remarks to me.
Fair cop on JC. In fact I don't mind the joke but it depends - as so often with comedy - on who's telling it.
Your reluctance to acknowledge the Truss point confirms your own partisanship in this matter.
Either structural racism is real and those who dispute it are expressing Fragility, or it's not.
You've made your bed in saying that structural racism is real and that those offended by calling it out are showing "Fragility" so why are you not denouncing Truss's critics for their own "fragility" in the same way as you claim Casino shows it? Surely, unless uniquely there's no structural antisemitism, anyone offended by Truss's comments are "fragile"?
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
I get confused when you @Nigelb interact with @TOPPING and/or @IshmaelZ - or when they interact with you, or with each other - as I always presume you are basically the same person. About 60, lives alone in Devon but comes to London sometimes, mildly cantankerous, oddly woke for a quite posh shire Tory type, gets drunk around 5pm, fond of badger baiting
Well you do seem easily confused.
It's true tho. Your personalities are so interchangeable I have to remind myself "Ah, this is the one that cycles", or "this is the one with the weird thing about slavery", and so forth
Otherwise I just file you all under That Old Dude Down in Devon, which is a tad unfair, probably
I see that Btandon Lewis seriously thinks the Tories can maintain a no-price-freeze policy while Labour does. No wonder Bonjo thinks he'll be back sooner rather than later. An bluffer and a blagger maybe, but at least one who understands politics at its most basic , or mass-populist level.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
No. But you know full well that you can't convict on the absence of evidence, otherwise antisemitism would be omnipresent - either it exists, or it hasn't been found yet.
Also, thanks for the earlier rudeness about my career; I shall return to my paperclips while towering intellects like yours pontificate.
Exactly. You have no evidence that there is no anti-semitism (or indeed any other form of discrimination) in the Civil Service. So it is possible if not probable (and perhaps it is probable) that there is discrimination in the Civil Service. So if Truss for her own reasons decided to focus on this corner of likely discrimination in the Civil Service shouldn't you be rejoicing that she is on a course to weed it out.
No. Not when she is meant to be doing big picture, overview, state of the nation kinda stuff. It is statistically certain that there are wifebeaters and practising paedophiles who are civil servants and any attempt to weeed them out is to be encouraged. It is a leap from there to saying that there's a lot of both about and that civil service doctrine officially encourages them, though. What the fuck are we meant to think her own reasons are? Showing a bit of ankle to Raab to tempt him across?
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
You could try to answer the question.
Or perhaps I will reframe it. Do you think (you personally, your own view no prizes or penalties for the right/wrong answer) that there is no discrimination in the Civil Service based upon peoples' race/religion/sexual orientation/etc.
No, I don't. But equally, I don't think that the person likely to be our next PM ought to be throwing around general accusations of anti-semitism without strong evidence.
I'm just not 100% sure that everyone would be quite so vexed if she had focused on some other form of discrimination where people would likely have tutted while nodding their heads knowingly.
The Civil Service is outraged because it has been accused of institutional racism - every other body accused of the same has turned itself inside out with enquiries and whatnot to determine how best to eradicate it. No one has argued with the ref about it.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
You could try to answer the question.
Or perhaps I will reframe it. Do you think (you personally, your own view no prizes or penalties for the right/wrong answer) that there is no discrimination in the Civil Service based upon peoples' race/religion/sexual orientation/etc.
No, I don't. But equally, I don't think that the person likely to be our next PM ought to be throwing around general accusations of anti-semitism without strong evidence.
I'm just not 100% sure that everyone would be quite so vexed if she had focused on some other form of discrimination where people would likely have tutted while nodding their heads knowingly.
The Civil Service is outraged because it has been accused of institutional racism - every other body accused of the same has turned itself inside out with enquiries and whatnot to determine how best to eradicate it. No one has argued with the ref about it.
Really ? You haven't closely followed the last decade of the Met's history, then.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
I get confused when you @Nigelb interact with @TOPPING and/or @IshmaelZ - or when they interact with you, or with each other - as I always presume you are basically the same person. About 60, lives alone in Devon but comes to London sometimes, mildly cantankerous, oddly woke for a quite posh shire Tory type, gets drunk around 5pm, fond of badger baiting
Well you do seem easily confused.
It's true tho. Your personalities are so interchangeable I have to remind myself "Ah, this is the one that cycles", or "this is the one with the weird thing about slavery", and so forth
Otherwise I just file you all under That Old Dude Down in Devon, which is a tad unfair, probably
We are all the same person.
Just like you and ******* and ******* and perhaps ******** I file under incomers to London strenuously trying to prove that you are proper Londoners with lines such as "when I arrived here XX years ago, there was a crack den where the vegan juice bar is now..." and so forth.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
I get confused when you @Nigelb interact with @TOPPING and/or @IshmaelZ - or when they interact with you, or with each other - as I always presume you are basically the same person. About 60, lives alone in Devon but comes to London sometimes, mildly cantankerous, oddly woke for a quite posh shire Tory type, gets drunk around 5pm, fond of badger baiting
Well you do seem easily confused.
It's true tho. Your personalities are so interchangeable I have to remind myself "Ah, this is the one that cycles", or "this is the one with the weird thing about slavery", and so forth
Otherwise I just file you all under That Old Dude Down in Devon, which is a tad unfair, probably
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
The sun never set on the British Empire because God didn't trust the English in the dark.
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Edit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
I get confused when you @Nigelb interact with @TOPPING and/or @IshmaelZ - or when they interact with you, or with each other - as I always presume you are basically the same person. About 60, lives alone in Devon but comes to London sometimes, mildly cantankerous, oddly woke for a quite posh shire Tory type, gets drunk around 5pm, fond of badger baiting
Well you do seem easily confused.
It's true tho. Your personalities are so interchangeable I have to remind myself "Ah, this is the one that cycles", or "this is the one with the weird thing about slavery", and so forth
Otherwise I just file you all under That Old Dude Down in Devon, which is a tad unfair, probably
We are all the same person.
Just like you and ******* and ******* and perhaps ******** I file under incomers to London strenuously trying to prove that you are proper Londoners with lines such as "when I arrived here XX years ago, there was a crack den where the vegan juice bar is now..." and so forth.
Coming from Leon, surely that would be a complaint about how backwards its gone rather than a sign of progress?
Reminiscing about better times in the past with good music and crack on demand, rather than crap music and vegan juice.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
No. But you know full well that you can't convict on the absence of evidence, otherwise antisemitism would be omnipresent - either it exists, or it hasn't been found yet.
Also, thanks for the earlier rudeness about my career; I shall return to my paperclips while towering intellects like yours pontificate.
Exactly. You have no evidence that there is no anti-semitism (or indeed any other form of discrimination) in the Civil Service. So it is possible if not probable (and perhaps it is probable) that there is discrimination in the Civil Service. So if Truss for her own reasons decided to focus on this corner of likely discrimination in the Civil Service shouldn't you be rejoicing that she is on a course to weed it out.
No. Not when she is meant to be doing big picture, overview, state of the nation kinda stuff. It is statistically certain that there are wifebeaters and practising paedophiles who are civil servants and any attempt to weeed them out is to be encouraged. It is a leap from there to saying that there's a lot of both about and that civil service doctrine officially encourages them, though. What the fuck are we meant to think her own reasons are? Showing a bit of ankle to Raab to tempt him across?
Nah it's just politicking. Look at the latest edition of "My Countryside" - there is an interview with each of LT and RS about how they will safeguard the countryside, etc. Penny to a pound there are articles in the Jewish newspapers with each of the candidates saying reassuring things to and about the jewish community.
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.
So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”
At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
No - at worst it is code for "Jews are ruthless, money-obsessed and untrustworthy, in a secret conspiracy to control the world".
No, that’s your anti-Semitic interpretation of her words
It might help if some of you went on an intensive course to try to bring you up to par in reading and understanding the English language.
"AT WORST" means very simply (but apparently not quite simply enough for you) that that is the worst thing that can be conveyed by that kind of statement.
Hope the capital letters and bold may help you to understand those two words (but not optimistic). There was no reference to what Liz Truss might actually have meant by it in my post, but perhaps we should take it in baby steps.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Return to sender. Poster who said "accusations of antisemitism are always a vile lie" unknown.
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
In that case God rides a (German) motorbike.
R75/6. First boxer with the camshaft under the crank.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
You could try to answer the question.
Or perhaps I will reframe it. Do you think (you personally, your own view no prizes or penalties for the right/wrong answer) that there is no discrimination in the Civil Service based upon peoples' race/religion/sexual orientation/etc.
No, I don't. But equally, I don't think that the person likely to be our next PM ought to be throwing around general accusations of anti-semitism without strong evidence.
I'm just not 100% sure that everyone would be quite so vexed if she had focused on some other form of discrimination where people would likely have tutted while nodding their heads knowingly.
The Civil Service is outraged because it has been accused of institutional racism - every other body accused of the same has turned itself inside out with enquiries and whatnot to determine how best to eradicate it. No one has argued with the ref about it.
Really ? You haven't closely followed the last decade of the Met's history, then.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
Conflating 'woke' with anti-Semitism is just bizarre.
I think what happened there was she was slamming woke stuff, woke is practicsed by the left, the left is full of Corbynites, Corbyn and/or many of his fellow travellers either strayed into antisemitism or simply were antisemites, ergo woke is antisemitic.
The most odd thing is that after accusing the Civil Service of anti-semitism without any evidence, she then came out with anti-semitic tropes herself, saying Jews were naturally Conservative because of their skills in business.
So I’d say it’s no more antisemitic to make this point than it is racist to say “Jamaicans are good at sprinting”
At worst it is a little crude and a stereotype
No - at worst it is code for "Jews are ruthless, money-obsessed and untrustworthy, in a secret conspiracy to control the world".
No, that’s your anti-Semitic interpretation of her words
It might help if some of you went on an intensive course to try to bring you up to par in reading and understanding the English language.
"AT WORST" means very simply (but apparently not quite simply enough for you) that that is the worst thing that can be conveyed by that kind of statement.
Hope the capital letters and bold may help you to understand those two words (but not optimistic). There was no reference to what Liz Truss might actually have meant by it in my post, but perhaps we should take it in baby steps.
I would read this comment if you weren't an idiot, but you are, so I won't
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
You could try to answer the question.
Or perhaps I will reframe it. Do you think (you personally, your own view no prizes or penalties for the right/wrong answer) that there is no discrimination in the Civil Service based upon peoples' race/religion/sexual orientation/etc.
No, I don't. But equally, I don't think that the person likely to be our next PM ought to be throwing around general accusations of anti-semitism without strong evidence.
I'm just not 100% sure that everyone would be quite so vexed if she had focused on some other form of discrimination where people would likely have tutted while nodding their heads knowingly.
The Civil Service is outraged because it has been accused of institutional racism - every other body accused of the same has turned itself inside out with enquiries and whatnot to determine how best to eradicate it. No one has argued with the ref about it.
Truss is not the ref. even if she was, the linesmen, hawkeye, VAR, third umpire and both sets of supporters are unanimous that there was no appeal, the ball was in and wtf is she even on about?
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Return to sender. Poster who said "accusations of antisemitism are always a vile lie" unknown.
Meanwhile you're banging on about "Fragility" and "structural" racism.
Who is the "Fragile" one really, when comments as mild as Trusses about "straying into" racism attract such vitriol?
Racism is Structural against every race apart from Jews it seems?
Which is it, is structural racism real including against Jews, or is racism real but uniquely Jews don't count?
Now mr @moonshine - see this here IS a "word salad".
Genuinely hard to extract any sense from it but for the record and please save this tweet:
Racism - 'structural' or otherwise - exists and it includes antisemitism and it's a bad thing.
So we're getting somewhere. Structural racism, including antisemitism exists - that is now your opinion.
In which case, surely what Truss said was eminently reasonable that antisemitism needs tackling [just as any other racism does too] and so can you acknowledge the logical end point of your train of thought and criticise the "Fragility" of those opposing what Truss said?
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
Simple.
Countries with abundant oil tend not to be happy, well-run places. Not in the long term.
Partly because others come along to try to steal the wealth that oozes from the ground. Partly because a state that gets that rich without doing anything to earn it doesn't have the external disciplines to be well-run.
North Sea oil might be the exception there- maybe because it was so damn difficult to extract.
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Despite everyone on here rushing to proclaim how dim Truss is I can't believe she didn't anticipate this reaction.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Discrimination in the UK - a left wing guide:
Groups the UK discriminates against in the past and now, consciously or unconsciously: blacks, gays, trans people, asians (south and east), muslims, hindus, sikhs, zoroastrians, buddhists, 7th day adventists, mormons (less so since the musical), ufo believers.
Groups the UK never has and now doesn't discriminate against: jews
I don't think anyone claims that.
What we are asking for is evidence that the current Civil Service is anti-semitic.
Talking of the Paelestinian Mandate administration in the early part of the 20th century is not current.
Neither are good diplomatic relations with Arab states evidence of anti-semitism.
As I said earlier, I would doubt that there is too much anti-semitism in the civil service today because, ironically, of the "wokeism" that Truss complains of.
There must be some, of course, as per @BartholomewRoberts' three scenarios so maybe this is just Truss pushing at an open door (I wonder what the reaction would have been if she had railed against homophobia - such virulent dismissal?).
And there is as we have seen from various sources and posters a healthy "Arabist" tradition in the civil service plus on the left we have also seen with Jezza how pro-palestine/anti-israel can spill over into anti-semitism so again it's not out of the question for the civil service or those left wing members of it.
In short, like Rumsfeld's known/unknowns, despite initial scepticism of the concept, @BartholomewRoberts has it pretty right in his categories. I'm also #1.
So no evidence of anti-semitism in the Civil Service as an institution at all, just a bit of smearing.
And, equally, no evidence for Bart's assertion that the "Jewish community" has expressed concerns about anti-semitism in the Civil Service. He's just ignored me, which he is of course entitled to do, but....
Same question to you: do you have evidence that there is no anti-semitism in the Civil Service?
Should I ask you to prove you are not a liar and a thief ?
You could try to answer the question.
Or perhaps I will reframe it. Do you think (you personally, your own view no prizes or penalties for the right/wrong answer) that there is no discrimination in the Civil Service based upon peoples' race/religion/sexual orientation/etc.
No, I don't. But equally, I don't think that the person likely to be our next PM ought to be throwing around general accusations of anti-semitism without strong evidence.
I'm just not 100% sure that everyone would be quite so vexed if she had focused on some other form of discrimination where people would likely have tutted while nodding their heads knowingly.
The Civil Service is outraged because it has been accused of institutional racism - every other body accused of the same has turned itself inside out with enquiries and whatnot to determine how best to eradicate it. No one has argued with the ref about it.
Truss is not the ref. even if she was, the linesmen, hawkeye, VAR, third umpire and both sets of supporters are unanimous that there was no appeal, the ball was in and wtf is she even on about?
Why she chose the Civil Service and not the Mothers' Union god only knows but she is now in a position to wait for them to say "we are not anti-semitic" and, as even @Nigelb admits, they can't say that. So then what? It's quite strange I must say.
Logically, that makes sense Nick. However, both of us know the principle of "Quis custodes custodiet?" applies here in that who gets to decide what constitutes "ample" evidence and whether an accusation is justified.
A lot of the underlying issue surrounding the whole debate is that the Left believes it has the sole prerogative to define racism - hence an institution or someone from the right can be accused of racism without any "hard" evidence but try that to someone in the left camp - as seen in the antisemitism row - and we suddenly get caveats around the need for evidence etc
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
As ever, a total inability to engage with the point, because you simply don't understand it. It's faintly sad. I imagine you were probably quite inquiring once, now you are an intellectual fossil. The equivalent of one of those Baltic insects preserved in amber. Your ugly mental proboscis forever reaches for the same desperate fly
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Despite everyone on here rushing to proclaim how dim Truss is I can't believe she didn't anticipate this reaction.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Principle of charity.
If she has no evidence, or she has thin evidence that she is hoping to use to get some more (your first and third possibilities), she is an irresponsible loony- You Do Not Dick About With Accusations Of Antisemitism. If it's the second, and she has evidence, she is differently irresponsible. If you have real evidence, you do more with it than put it in a press release.
The kindest thing you can say about her press release is that, despite being under zero pressure, she released something really dim.
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Edit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
Fair comment and Sky business has said that by subsidising the price cap it will remove the necessity for the public to take their own energy saving methods including installing solar panels and insulation and as it is smaller companies developing North Sea gas they will not accept the loss of tax assistance towards their developments costs for this vital component of our future energy requirements
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Efit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
The 400 pound rebate was going to be funded by the government and I don’t see anywhere which it says that’s going to be re-directed to the energy companies . I do take your point though because enforcing the energy cap freeze does mean those companies margins shrink substantially . Overall the plan is costed for the short term , of course the problems come if wholesale energy prices don’t fall next year . I think at the moment the public’s primary concern is getting through the winter .
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Despite everyone on here rushing to proclaim how dim Truss is I can't believe she didn't anticipate this reaction.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Principle of charity.
If she has no evidence, or she has thin evidence that she is hoping to use to get some more (your first and third possibilities), she is an irresponsible loony- You Do Not Dick About With Accusations Of Antisemitism. If it's the second, and she has evidence, she is differently irresponsible. If you have real evidence, you do more with it than put it in a press release.
The kindest thing you can say about her press release is that, despite being under zero pressure, she released something really dim.
As @MrEd notes, it is nevertheless very amusing to see the outrage that all "right thinking" people have over the very idea that the Civil Service might be racist and yet it goes without saying (by those same right thinking people) that almost any right wing institution can be accused of racism as a matter of course.
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
Wel, that last one is easy. The Arabs got the oil as a punishment for being, largely non-Christian, with long term meddling from powerful Christian countries guaranteed as a result
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
Having seen what oil wealth has done to various countries (except Norway) I would say that is evidence that God really likes the Israelis.
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Edit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
Fair comment and Sky business has said that by subsidising the price cap it will remove the necessity for the public to take their own energy saving methods including installing solar panels and insulation and as it is smaller companies developing North Sea gas they will not accept the loss of tax assistance towards their developments costs for this vital component of our future energy requirements
And it does nothing to address the fact energy bills are already unaffordable for many, it yanks 400 quid back by cancelling the rebate. I've not seen any proposal to prevent price gouging/profiteering on businesses outside the cap (but if its in there, fair play) and all if this gets us to April only. That shows the scale of this. The downsides of the throwaway line 'freeze your bills guv'nor?' Need to be set out. Then we will see how popular they are.
I say NO subsidy and create a government owned supplier the employees and customers of bankrupt energy gougers can fold into
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Despite everyone on here rushing to proclaim how dim Truss is I can't believe she didn't anticipate this reaction.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Principle of charity.
If she has no evidence, or she has thin evidence that she is hoping to use to get some more (your first and third possibilities), she is an irresponsible loony- You Do Not Dick About With Accusations Of Antisemitism. If it's the second, and she has evidence, she is differently irresponsible. If you have real evidence, you do more with it than put it in a press release.
The kindest thing you can say about her press release is that, despite being under zero pressure, she released something really dim.
As @MrEd notes, it is nevertheless very amusing to see the outrage that all "right thinking" people have over the very idea that the Civil Service might be racist and yet it goes without saying (by those same right thinking people) that almost any right wing institution can be accused of racism as a matter of course.
Like the Home Office ?
It's a question of looking at measurable external effects, surely ?
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Despite everyone on here rushing to proclaim how dim Truss is I can't believe she didn't anticipate this reaction.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Principle of charity.
If she has no evidence, or she has thin evidence that she is hoping to use to get some more (your first and third possibilities), she is an irresponsible loony- You Do Not Dick About With Accusations Of Antisemitism. If it's the second, and she has evidence, she is differently irresponsible. If you have real evidence, you do more with it than put it in a press release.
The kindest thing you can say about her press release is that, despite being under zero pressure, she released something really dim.
As @MrEd notes, it is nevertheless very amusing to see the outrage that all "right thinking" people have over the very idea that the Civil Service might be racist and yet it goes without saying (by those same right thinking people) that almost any right wing institution can be accused of racism as a matter of course.
Who are these racist right wing institutions? Is the IEA supposedly a hotbed of racism? Conservative Party a given, of course, just look at the leadership contest, all posh white men...
Re the Civil Service, I'd prefer to think that the old maxim about never attributing to malice what can equally be exaplined by incompetence applies.
Also, do you not mean 'left thinking' people? The 'right thinking' people are surely all racists!
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
That is BOLLOCKS.
Short sentences. Some CAPITALS. Short paragraphs.
You think it's hard because your woke-infested brain is too busy thinking up new ways to destroy western society that you can no longer perform the simplest of tasks. Rather than doing something worthwhile like copying me, you spend your day wanking over your latest left-wing obsession, like a laboratory rat who's discovered the pleasure lever.
One of three situations can be true from what I can see:
1 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, exists and should be tackled. In which case Truss saying antisemitism should be tackled should be agreed with.
2 - Structural racism, including antisemitism, doesn't exist. In which case those suggesting racism exists may be called "liars" but the very concepts of "White Fragility" etc are also nonsensical.
3 - Structural racism exists, but uniquely for some reason antisemitism does not. Structural racism is so rampant that talk of "White Fragility" makes sense, but antisemitism is so non-existent that even suggesting antisemitism needs to be tackled when its strayed into is a vile lie.
I would go with #1. It seems Kinabalu goes with #3.
How about 4 - structural racism exists and should be tackled where there is ample evidence that it exists in a particular structure. Truss, or anyone, naming a random institution and saying it should be tackled there is surprising, unless the institution is widely suspected of it. Which, I'd argue, the Civil Service is not, any more than the Mothers' Union, even though that too undoubtedly has some anti-semites.
Despite everyone on here rushing to proclaim how dim Truss is I can't believe she didn't anticipate this reaction.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Principle of charity.
If she has no evidence, or she has thin evidence that she is hoping to use to get some more (your first and third possibilities), she is an irresponsible loony- You Do Not Dick About With Accusations Of Antisemitism. If it's the second, and she has evidence, she is differently irresponsible. If you have real evidence, you do more with it than put it in a press release.
The kindest thing you can say about her press release is that, despite being under zero pressure, she released something really dim.
As @MrEd notes, it is nevertheless very amusing to see the outrage that all "right thinking" people have over the very idea that the Civil Service might be racist and yet it goes without saying (by those same right thinking people) that almost any right wing institution can be accused of racism as a matter of course.
You are confusing simple bafflement, with something else. If Truss made it part of her pitch that birds are not in fact animals but a kind of fast-moving flowering plant, you'd get the same blank incomprehension followed by request for some, you know, evidence.
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Edit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
Fair comment and Sky business has said that by subsidising the price cap it will remove the necessity for the public to take their own energy saving methods including installing solar panels and insulation and as it is smaller companies developing North Sea gas they will not accept the loss of tax assistance towards their developments costs for this vital component of our future energy requirements
And it does nothing to address the fact energy bills are already unaffordable for many, it yanks 400 quid back by cancelling the rebate. I've not seen any proposal to prevent price gouging/profiteering on businesses outside the cap (but if its in there, fair play) and all if this gets us to April only. That shows the scale of this. The downsides of the throwaway line 'freeze your bills guv'nor?' Need to be set out. Then we will see how popular they are.
I say NO subsidy and create a government owned supplier the employees and customers of bankrupt energy gougers can fold into
It would be interesting to see if the energy companies litigated against the retrospective nature of the tax proposals but then it is not going to come to that as these proposals will not be the same as the governments in the emergency budget in September
EDF are seeking up to 15 billion euros from the French government
You think it's hard because your woke-infested brain is too busy thinking up new ways to destroy western society that you can no longer perform the simplest of tasks. Rather than doing something worthwhile like copying me, you spend your day wanking over your latest left-wing obsession, like a laboratory rat who's discovered the pleasure lever.
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself….
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Efit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
The 400 pound rebate was going to be funded by the government and I don’t see anywhere which it says that’s going to be re-directed to the energy companies . I do take your point though because enforcing the energy cap freeze does mean those companies margins shrink substantially . Overall the plan is costed for the short term , of course the problems come if wholesale energy prices don’t fall next year . I think at the moment the public’s primary concern is getting through the winter .
Yes the plan is costed on subdidising the energy companies to sell to us at £1970 cap levels regardless of their wholesale purchase cost. The extra money is funding that, their profits etc. Its state subsidy of the industry's profits in return for frozen bills. Businesses dont fall under the cap so they are totally fucked, especially small businesses. And, as you say, all if this gets us to April only. And lets not forget, the cap builds in lag, so even if wholesale prices are down by April (highly doubtful), the cap will drift down slower, so even more rage. At best this is a sticking plaster for households at already eye watering levels for 6 months costing billions in subsidising private profits. We are so fucked its being heralded by some as 'a solution' I expect the Tory solution to be more expensive and equally inadequate.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
That is BOLLOCKS.
Short sentences. Some CAPITALS. Short paragraphs.
You think it's hard because your woke-infested brain is too busy thinking up new ways to destroy western society that you can no longer perform the simplest of tasks. Rather than doing something worthwhile like copying me, you spend your day wanking over your latest left-wing obsession, like a laboratory rat who's discovered the pleasure lever.
Grow UP.
~If there's still a post of the year contest. this wins hands down.
I would just say I find @Leon an interesting and amusing poster and just cannot get worked up by his comments which are part of PB rich pattern of contributors
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
As ever, a total inability to engage with the point, because you simply don't understand it. It's faintly sad. I imagine you were probably quite inquiring once, now you are an intellectual fossil. The equivalent of one of those Baltic insects preserved in amber. Your ugly mental proboscis forever reaches for the same desperate fly
"engage with the point" - lol. By which you mean agree with the risible notion that overzealous antiracism is a greater evil and a bigger threat to civilisation than racism.
And this from the person who when asked if structural racism against black people exists can't say "yes" without tagging on a 'balancer' about white girls and Rotherham.
The same problem Jezza has when he's asked about antisemitism. Can't recognize or condemn it without some little rider or other. It's a "tell" with him - of at best an inability to grasp the issue - just as it is with you.
Sorry, Leon, but that's how I see it and I'm pretty sure I AM seeing it.
You think it's hard because your woke-infested brain is too busy thinking up new ways to destroy western society that you can no longer perform the simplest of tasks. Rather than doing something worthwhile like copying me, you spend your day wanking over your latest left-wing obsession, like a laboratory rat who's discovered the pleasure lever.
Grow UP.
spooky...
You and me are the only real humans here; the rest of the site is some weird AI experiment in generating a discussion site from AI chatbots? HY is clearly still a beta-version, but many of the others are actually quite convincing.
I would just say I find @Leon an interesting and amusing poster and just cannot get worked up by his comments which are part of PB rich pattern of contributors
And it will be sad when he is gone which, judging from past experience, can’t be that long in coming, now….
I really do think that children can have an appreciation of the racist legacy of western colonialism - inc the notion of white privilege - without becoming so crippled with personal guilt that they can't tie their own shoelaces.
They shouldn't feel or be taught any personal guilt whatsoever. The sins of the fathers or, in this case, the multiple great-grandfathers, are not visited on the sons. This was the whole basis of Christian anti-semitism. It was wrong when applied to Jews. It is wrong when applied to people now who have no responsibility whatsoever for what people in previous centuries did or did not do.
Honestly, you guys spend hours moaning that I sometimes dominate the conversation, then you carefully compose comments trying to copy my style, or you literally get Dalle-2 to make movie posters featuring me
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Return to sender. Poster who said "accusations of antisemitism are always a vile lie" unknown.
Meanwhile you're banging on about "Fragility" and "structural" racism.
Who is the "Fragile" one really, when comments as mild as Trusses about "straying into" racism attract such vitriol?
Racism is Structural against every race apart from Jews it seems?
Which is it, is structural racism real including against Jews, or is racism real but uniquely Jews don't count?
Now mr @moonshine - see this here IS a "word salad".
Genuinely hard to extract any sense from it but for the record and please save this tweet:
Racism - 'structural' or otherwise - exists and it includes antisemitism and it's a bad thing.
So we're getting somewhere. Structural racism, including antisemitism exists - that is now your opinion.
In which case, surely what Truss said was eminently reasonable that antisemitism needs tackling [just as any other racism does too] and so can you acknowledge the logical end point of your train of thought and criticise the "Fragility" of those opposing what Truss said?
You still appear to be ignoring what Truss said. Your position rests on pretending Truss said something she didn’t. She made a specific claim that “woke” civil service culture “strays into antisemitism”.
In the same speech, she characterised Jewish culture in ways that some feel were stereotyping.
Given the results so far on the YouGov live poll the public are in an unforgiving mood when it comes to energy companies .
A huge majority for freezing the energy cap and the same for the government not subsidizing the energy companies .
You’re either on the side of the public or energy companies and the public aren’t interested in Truss’s defence of their profits .
Starmer and Labour have played a blinder and regardless now have won the argument even if Mrs U-turn does another one .
Starmers plan subdidizes the energy companies Edit - and hes cancelling the £400 rebate per household by the looks of it
I don’t see any subsidy in their plans . So not sure where you’ve read that .
Why do you think its 'costed'? Freezing the price cap doesnt cost a penny, its just a maximum level at which energy companies can charge for energy, so the extra tax hes raising and the cancellation of the £400 rebate is to subsidize the energy companies for selling at a lower price than theyd be allowed to if the cap went up. So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up. I dont see how else his plan operates?
Edit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
Fair comment and Sky business has said that by subsidising the price cap it will remove the necessity for the public to take their own energy saving methods including installing solar panels and insulation and as it is smaller companies developing North Sea gas they will not accept the loss of tax assistance towards their developments costs for this vital component of our future energy requirements
And it does nothing to address the fact energy bills are already unaffordable for many, it yanks 400 quid back by cancelling the rebate. I've not seen any proposal to prevent price gouging/profiteering on businesses outside the cap (but if its in there, fair play) and all if this gets us to April only. That shows the scale of this. The downsides of the throwaway line 'freeze your bills guv'nor?' Need to be set out. Then we will see how popular they are.
I say NO subsidy and create a government owned supplier the employees and customers of bankrupt energy gougers can fold into
It would be interesting to see if the energy companies litigated against the retrospective nature of the tax proposals but then it is not going to come to that as these proposals will not be the same as the governments in the emergency budget in September
EDF are seeking up to 15 billion euros from the French government
Complete carnage. We aren't ready for what's coming this winter continent wide
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
Pretending to be impervious to logic, the gratuitous insults and bigotry, and putting random WORDS in capitals is the easy bit. The detachment from any sort of rational analysis grounded in the real world will be the difficult bit.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
That is BOLLOCKS.
Short sentences. Some CAPITALS. Short paragraphs.
You think it's hard because your woke-infested brain is too busy thinking up new ways to destroy western society that you can no longer perform the simplest of tasks. Rather than doing something worthwhile like copying me, you spend your day wanking over your latest left-wing obsession, like a laboratory rat who's discovered the pleasure lever.
Grow UP.
~If there's still a post of the year contest. this wins hands down.
But, but, POTY had to always be won by a rabid rightwing psycho
I really do think that children can have an appreciation of the racist legacy of western colonialism - inc the notion of white privilege - without becoming so crippled with personal guilt that they can't tie their own shoelaces.
They shouldn't feel or be taught any personal guilt whatsoever. The sins of the fathers or, in this case, the multiple great-grandfathers, are not visited on the sons. This was the whole basis of Christian anti-semitism. It was wrong when applied to Jews. It is wrong when applied to people now who have no responsibility whatsoever for what people in previous centuries did or did not do.
Indeed. The classic response is, of course, that they are enjoying the fruits of the sins of the (great … great grand) fathers.
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
How did he 'mimic your posts' when he was here before you were?
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
Pretending to be impervious to logic, the gratuitous insults and bigotry, and putting random WORDS in capitals is the easy bit. The detachment from any sort of rational analysis grounded in the real world will be the difficult bit.
I'd find it hard to copy you because you have absolutely no personality at all. No humour, no wit, no quirks, no nothing. You are a nullity. It would be like trying to draw a void
Honestly, you guys spend hours moaning that I sometimes dominate the conversation, then you carefully compose comments trying to copy my style, or you literally get Dalle-2 to make movie posters featuring me
I suppose I am flattered. Thanks
You are like a Hindu god, Leon.
THere is only one of you, but you appear in many different forms and we all worship at your shrine.
Honestly, you guys spend hours moaning that I sometimes dominate the conversation, then you carefully compose comments trying to copy my style, or you literally get Dalle-2 to make movie posters featuring me
I suppose I am flattered. Thanks
It’s a bit of frivolous leisure time and escapism for many of us, before we get back to managing complicated problems in the real world, where denial, simplistic bigotry and fantastical speculation would close off our career options to the point that making up stuff would be the only way left to make a living…
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
In that case God rides a (German) motorbike.
White socks????
I would bet they're a creamy yellow, a type favoured by a certain kind of older posho & usually accompanied by cavalry twill and brown suede.
Can Liz Truss provide evidence to back her suggestion there is "woke" culture in the civil service that "strays into antisemitism"? We asked @BrandonLewis 👇👇 #KayBurley wx
This was a fucking disgraceful allegation from Truss - and shows she is continuity Johnson. She is a liar.
There's definitely Woke culture in public infrastructure projects.
My client is holding a "power games" in Regent's Park on Wednesday evening hosted by the Unite for Race Equality network.
Have a guess as to how they'll play that.
Provide evidence there is widespread anti-Semitism in the Civil Service, she used the Jewish Community to further her political agenda.
Anti-Semitism is something we all take seriously when it is founded. Instead she made the allegation then immediately ran away.
She is an absolute disgrace - and this has made it clear for me. I will never vote Tory whilst anyone associated with her is in a position of power.
They are going to hold "egg and spoon" races, and other fun outdoor classics, but ensure that one's starting position in these races is handicapped depending on what "group" you are in - because there must always be an identity politics lesson to be imbibed. Never just neutral fun teambuilding.
For clarity, that means that a white male I would have to start behind others in the race - probably at the back - and that's the intersectionality lecture delivered.
That is Wokery and it goes on *all the time*.
At some point this is going to directly collide with my career ambitions, as I personally cannot abide it but, for now, I will have a "prior engagement" that unfortunately cannot get out of.
Is that really what they do?!
Jesus f Christ
Is this private or public sector?
The thought of Casino having to start behind in an egg & spoon race in Regents Park because he's white - this is surely an uncalled for humiliation to rank right alongside those caused by the structural racism it is meant to highlight!
@Casino_Royale should just tell them he self-identifies as Indian due to Indian ancestry. What are these fuckers going to do then? Give him a genetic test? Check to see if he wobbles his head? Race is a social construct so it has no reality anyway, as the same Woke cranks keep telling us
This is the surreal yet inevitable endpoint of Wokeness. Everyone will self identify as African and gay so they can be first in the company egg and spoon race
Yada yada.
The relationship between you and this topic - structural racism - is an odd one indeed. It's a widely acknowledged complex problem but rather than take a pass on it - as posters do all the time on things which either don’t interest them or they can’t get their heads around – what happens is you get angry at the mere mention of it, lashing out at those who take it seriously, risibly making out that to talk about White Privilege is some mortal threat to civilisation, or in lighter vein (which isn’t actually that light) erupting into spasms of “oh god what do we call them this week then?” jocularity, seeking to trivialize the whole thing.
The term White Fragility is one I realize irritates but tough titty because it also nails a certain specific mindset and set of attitudes and we have living proof of its acuity right here.
So structural racism is a real problem, but straying into antisemitism is a vile lie?
Jews don't count.
Return to sender. Poster who said "accusations of antisemitism are always a vile lie" unknown.
Meanwhile you're banging on about "Fragility" and "structural" racism.
Who is the "Fragile" one really, when comments as mild as Trusses about "straying into" racism attract such vitriol?
Racism is Structural against every race apart from Jews it seems?
Which is it, is structural racism real including against Jews, or is racism real but uniquely Jews don't count?
Now mr @moonshine - see this here IS a "word salad".
Genuinely hard to extract any sense from it but for the record and please save this tweet:
Racism - 'structural' or otherwise - exists and it includes antisemitism and it's a bad thing.
So we're getting somewhere. Structural racism, including antisemitism exists - that is now your opinion.
In which case, surely what Truss said was eminently reasonable that antisemitism needs tackling [just as any other racism does too] and so can you acknowledge the logical end point of your train of thought and criticise the "Fragility" of those opposing what Truss said?
You still appear to be ignoring what Truss said. Your position rests on pretending Truss said something she didn’t. She made a specific claim that “woke” civil service culture “strays into antisemitism”.
In the same speech, she characterised Jewish culture in ways that some feel were stereotyping.
Absolutely and "woke" civil service culture does indeed stray into antisemitism, just as almost any "woke" rally of any kind will inevitably have antisemitic placards being waved too. She was entirely correct in everything she wrote, and the Fragile individuals who feel threatened at institutional racism being called out should get over their own Fragility.
I really do think that children can have an appreciation of the racist legacy of western colonialism - inc the notion of white privilege - without becoming so crippled with personal guilt that they can't tie their own shoelaces.
They shouldn't feel or be taught any personal guilt whatsoever. The sins of the fathers or, in this case, the multiple great-grandfathers, are not visited on the sons. This was the whole basis of Christian anti-semitism. It was wrong when applied to Jews. It is wrong when applied to people now who have no responsibility whatsoever for what people in previous centuries did or did not do.
The truth is that each and every one of us is descended form very privileged people who perpetrated all manner of atrocities, and people from the lowest rungs of society who suffered from atrocities. Neither guilt nor virtue are inherited.
I would just say I find @Leon an interesting and amusing poster and just cannot get worked up by his comments which are part of PB rich pattern of contributors
And it will be sad when he is gone which, judging from past experience, can’t be that long in coming, now….
I really do think that children can have an appreciation of the racist legacy of western colonialism - inc the notion of white privilege - without becoming so crippled with personal guilt that they can't tie their own shoelaces.
They shouldn't feel or be taught any personal guilt whatsoever. The sins of the fathers or, in this case, the multiple great-grandfathers, are not visited on the sons. This was the whole basis of Christian anti-semitism. It was wrong when applied to Jews. It is wrong when applied to people now who have no responsibility whatsoever for what people in previous centuries did or did not do.
True but only 50% of the picture. Black people have no right to white guilt but they do have a right to the truth; there is a reason why holocaust denial is a crime. Slavery denial OTOH is routine, because its victims are a bit smaller and further away, and harder to see in the dark. It was the defining institution of its age and the basis of the rise of this country and the USA to world domination. Lying about this is wrong.
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
St. Paul... Jesus ?
Jehovah? Doesn't get much bigger!
Would it be accurate to so describe a deity ?
Personally, I've always felt like God is an Englishman. Ralph Richardson type, as in the movie. Means well, enormously powerful, a bit vague sometimes, ineffable and omniscient, drinks too much
As to whether God is actually Jewish, there is an old Israeli saying - if God is really Jewish, and the Jews are His chosen people, how come the Arabs got all the oil?
In that case God rides a (German) motorbike.
White socks????
I would bet they're a creamy yellow, a type favoured by a certain kind of older posho & usually accompanied by cavalry twill and brown suede.
Probably made by Pantherella.
Ah, thanks. I did wonder if the socks were not actually white and rather a pale colour posh thing. How nice to have a puzzle, however modest, conclusively solved
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
That would be quite the experiment!
But I must be away. My gym beckons and the frisson will be building down there as they await.
Then a G&T or three and as for this evening - who knows? It's a blank canvas on which I have yet to lay my brush.
Honestly, you guys spend hours moaning that I sometimes dominate the conversation, then you carefully compose comments trying to copy my style, or you literally get Dalle-2 to make movie posters featuring me
I suppose I am flattered. Thanks
It’s a bit of frivolous leisure time and escapism for many of us, before we get back to managing complicated problems in the real world, where denial, simplistic bigotry and fantastical speculation would close off our career options to the point that making up stuff would be the only way left to make a living…
Steady on. You don't know for a fact that none of us are civil servants.
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
Pretending to be impervious to logic, the gratuitous insults and bigotry, and putting random WORDS in capitals is the easy bit. The detachment from any sort of rational analysis grounded in the real world will be the difficult bit.
I'd find it hard to copy you because you have absolutely no personality at all. No humour, no wit, no quirks, no nothing. You are a nullity. It would be like trying to draw a void
And that is supposed to worry me, how? Most probably, you simply cannot draw.
I wear the badge of being the anti-Leon with pride.
I really do think that children can have an appreciation of the racist legacy of western colonialism - inc the notion of white privilege - without becoming so crippled with personal guilt that they can't tie their own shoelaces.
They shouldn't feel or be taught any personal guilt whatsoever. The sins of the fathers or, in this case, the multiple great-grandfathers, are not visited on the sons. This was the whole basis of Christian anti-semitism. It was wrong when applied to Jews. It is wrong when applied to people now who have no responsibility whatsoever for what people in previous centuries did or did not do.
Indeed. The classic response is, of course, that they are enjoying the fruits of the sins of the (great … great grand) fathers.
They may or may not be. But then the descendants of the slaves may also be benefiting - even if that was not the intention - from what happened to their ancestors. The point is that we cannot turn the clock back to what life would be now in numerous countries had slavery (or another evil) not happened. So all we can do is learn about the history and try to do better now and in the future. But making people now feel guilt over the actions of others is a no-no. As is ascribing some sort of superior moral worth to people because of who their ancestors may have been.
We are responsible for our own actions and failures to act. Not those of the long dead. Getting people to accept and act on this apparently simple precept is quite hard enough without expecting them to bear the moral burden of the actions of others.
I would just say I find @Leon an interesting and amusing poster and just cannot get worked up by his comments which are part of PB rich pattern of contributors
I take offence to his direct and profane insults to other posters. From a personal point of view I find the autism clichés he trots out wildly offensive on my son's behalf. But then I am an old snowflake, so what does it matter?
However, he has been directly responsible for posters leaving PB. @Byronic@LadyG and @eadric for starters. Good and honourable posters to a man and woman and without question they all left on his whim!
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
How did he 'mimic your posts' when he was here before you were?
fwiw while I have little doubt that the UK civil service and FO was at best anti-Israel and at worst anti-semitic in the past, I would be surprised if there were too many anti-semites there now for precisely the reason (wokeness) that Truss complains of.
That said, it is easy for those on the left (not you @Stark_Dawning ) to stray into anti-Israel/pro-Palestine/anti-semitism so perhaps that's what she's getting at.
It was always a theme in Yes Minister that the Civil Service was "pro Arab" (to put it politely).
It probably was a hangover from Imperial times, when ex colonial administrators had fond memories of the local sheikh or emir offering them a boy for the night, as a form of hospitality.
I thought it was more simply that the Arabs had oil and the Israelis didn't. Piss off the Arabs and it had unfortunate consequences for our oil supply (as Eden found out). 'The PM should be concerned about the Oily Places not the Holy Places.'
Of course, that may have been a cover for anti-semitic prejudice.
That's post WWII, though, and hardly a novel development.
(Incidentally, I note that both Michael Gove and Theresa May are self proclaimed admirers of Dornford Yates.)
Trollope has characters complaining "his greasy Israelitish smile", "a swarthy son of Judah", "a man whose father was probably selling matchsticks in Whitechapel". He had an especial loathing for Jews who converted to Christianity, who he saw as wolves in sheep's clothing. Mr. Melius, a popular preacher, is an immigrant from Bohemia and born a Jew, which makes him very suspect. It turns out, he is guilty of bigamy, and all good-thinking folk applaud when he gets ten years' imprisonment for it.
Plus there is, you know, the biggie Jew from literature.
The persistence of drawing room/literary anti-semitism is somewhat surprising when you consider that both Queen Victoria and Tum Tum were very pro-Jew.
Victoria was the first monarch to knight a Jew since 1700 (Sir Moses Montefiore Montefiore) , the first to make a Jew a baronet (Sir Isaac Goldsmid) and the first to create a Jewish peer (Nathan Rothschild, 1st Baron). And, she adored Disraeli. And Tum Tum had plenty of Jewish friends.
By 1850, it had been settled that a Jew could be a gentleman, so long as he was polite, not flashy, and acknowledged that to be born English was to win first prize in the lottery of life. Upper class Englishmen, of couse, could be as vulgar as they liked.
Mr. kinabalu, the hypocrisy was and remains amusing, as amusing as it is alarming.
A drunken fool's ideology that promotes racist nonsense is wretched whether it's bigoted against whites or Jews, or Koreans, or all three. Or blacks, Arabs, and Japanese.
There are some crass and counterproductive aspects to antiracist thinking and activism- this I can well see. Indeed thanks to Leon we get most of them copied onto here for our perusal and scorn.
What doesn't get copied in quite so much - in fact at all - are any of the countless depressing little incidents in everyday life that are driven by racism, conscious or unconscious, overt or latent, structural or freelance.
What I genuinely cannot relate to about what you (and tbf several other right wing inclined posters on here) bring to this whole topic is how you are way more concerned about those aforesaid excesses of antiracism than you are about the thing it seeks to highlight and combat - racism.
This is the problem with you guys from where I'm sitting.
The problem with you, the ENORMOUS problem with you, is that you are up yourself, so glistening with the slime of moral self regard, you fail to see that Wokeness is taking a fucking wrecking ball to the Enlightenment, and also encouraging and cementing the racial divisions you pretend to worry about . Perhaps it is because you simply don't care? I do not think you are that callous. I think it is because you are actually quite stupid, and narrow minded, as we have established, on here, passim
Yawn. Same old same old. Not just the sentiments but the language - almost right down to the actual words. You think of yourself as a freewheeling original with eclectic ‘impossible to pigeonhole’ opinions yet your views on whatever crops up on any particular PB day, and how you express them, are amongst the most predictable on here. I mean, if we got ‘AI’ on the job you’d be one of the first products off the delivery line and it’d be a damn fine one.
I think everyone should post in the style of Leon for the rest of the day. I'm sure it's harder than it looks - a line I imagine Leon will have heard before.
It's difficult, but not impossible, to convincingly copy my style. @eadric did it for a while with some elan
How did he 'mimic your posts' when he was here before you were?
Easy. He was a time-travelling alien.
A rebel alien trying to freak us out about the possibility of aliens already here and freaking us out?
Energy? Nationalise it. Invest in energy security. Bin off the privateers.
(Woolie's plan is a clever first step)
Steady now, I've never had a clever idea before. Essentially, even as someone who has always believed in the 'free market', you're right. Free market my arse, we spend untold billions propping the twat up as it staggers about pissed and coked up on our money. To misquote Edna St Vincent Millay, The Free Market does not bring relief, you all have lied who told me the Free Market would ease me of my pain Protectionism is the cheese, and pork
I would just say I find @Leon an interesting and amusing poster and just cannot get worked up by his comments which are part of PB rich pattern of contributors
I take offence to his direct and profane insults to other posters. From a personal point of view I find the autism clichés he trots out wildly offensive on my son's behalf. But then I am an old snowflake, so what does it matter?
However, he has been directly responsible for posters leaving PB. @Byronic@LadyG and @eadric for starters. Good and honourable posters to a man and woman and without question they all left on his whim!
Well said Pete, you're a great presence here too my friend.
Comments
Either structural racism is real and those who dispute it are expressing Fragility, or it's not.
You've made your bed in saying that structural racism is real and that those offended by calling it out are showing "Fragility" so why are you not denouncing Truss's critics for their own "fragility" in the same way as you claim Casino shows it? Surely, unless uniquely there's no structural antisemitism, anyone offended by Truss's comments are "fragile"?
Otherwise I just file you all under That Old Dude Down in Devon, which is a tad unfair, probably
No wonder Bonjo thinks he'll be back sooner rather than later. An bluffer and a blagger maybe, but at least one who understands politics at its most basic , or mass-populist level.
The Civil Service is outraged because it has been accused of institutional racism - every other body accused of the same has turned itself inside out with enquiries and whatnot to determine how best to eradicate it. No one has argued with the ref about it.
You haven't closely followed the last decade of the Met's history, then.
Just like you and ******* and ******* and perhaps ******** I file under incomers to London strenuously trying to prove that you are proper Londoners with lines such as "when I arrived here XX years ago, there was a crack den where the vegan juice bar is now..." and so forth.
So hes taking from us to fund them in return for bills not going up.
I dont see how else his plan operates?
Edit - if ive completely misunderstood how this works, i apologise but i think thats it isnt it?
Reminiscing about better times in the past with good music and crack on demand, rather than crap music and vegan juice.
"AT WORST" means very simply (but apparently not quite simply enough for you) that that is the worst thing that can be conveyed by that kind of statement.
Hope the capital letters and bold may help you to understand those two words (but not optimistic). There was no reference to what Liz Truss might actually have meant by it in my post, but perhaps we should take it in baby steps.
Genuinely hard to extract any sense from it but for the record and please save this tweet:
Racism - 'structural' or otherwise - exists and it includes antisemitism and it's a bad thing.
In which case, surely what Truss said was eminently reasonable that antisemitism needs tackling [just as any other racism does too] and so can you acknowledge the logical end point of your train of thought and criticise the "Fragility" of those opposing what Truss said?
Countries with abundant oil tend not to be happy, well-run places. Not in the long term.
Partly because others come along to try to steal the wealth that oozes from the ground. Partly because a state that gets that rich without doing anything to earn it doesn't have the external disciplines to be well-run.
North Sea oil might be the exception there- maybe because it was so damn difficult to extract.
Which means either she has no evidence whatsoever and is just throwing a match into the petrol because it positions her as a come-what-may defender of the Jews; or she does have evidence and is happy to sit back and let the outrage die down before it is unearthed; or perhaps she is fishing and hoping some Civil Service jewish person emerges with evidence of discrimination.
Logically, that makes sense Nick. However, both of us know the principle of "Quis custodes custodiet?" applies here in that who gets to decide what constitutes "ample" evidence and whether an accusation is justified.
A lot of the underlying issue surrounding the whole debate is that the Left believes it has the sole prerogative to define racism - hence an institution or someone from the right can be accused of racism without any "hard" evidence but try that to someone in the left camp - as seen in the antisemitism row - and we suddenly get caveats around the need for evidence etc
If she has no evidence, or she has thin evidence that she is hoping to use to get some more (your first and third possibilities), she is an irresponsible loony- You Do Not Dick About With Accusations Of Antisemitism. If it's the second, and she has evidence, she is differently irresponsible. If you have real evidence, you do more with it than put it in a press release.
The kindest thing you can say about her press release is that, despite being under zero pressure, she released something really dim.
How come literally EVERYONE on earth now has access to Dalle-2 - except me?
My older daughter, all of 16, has access, for God's sake. Yet not me
It's almost as if Dalle-2 is sentient, and does it to torment me, precisely because I have very occasionally mentioned Dalle-2 on here
That shows the scale of this.
The downsides of the throwaway line 'freeze your bills guv'nor?' Need to be set out. Then we will see how popular they are.
I say NO subsidy and create a government owned supplier the employees and customers of bankrupt energy gougers can fold into
It's a question of looking at measurable external effects, surely ?
I am a convert. The panicking Leon is just perfect.
Re the Civil Service, I'd prefer to think that the old maxim about never attributing to malice what can equally be exaplined by incompetence applies.
Also, do you not mean 'left thinking' people? The 'right thinking' people are surely all racists!
Short sentences. Some CAPITALS. Short paragraphs.
You think it's hard because your woke-infested brain is too busy thinking up new ways to destroy western society that you can no longer perform the simplest of tasks. Rather than doing something worthwhile like copying me, you spend your day wanking over your latest left-wing obsession, like a laboratory rat who's discovered the pleasure lever.
Grow UP.
EDF are seeking up to 15 billion euros from the French government
Do you really not have any mirrors in your house?
I don’t blame you, obvs.
The give away is that there are several of them, all the same…
Truss is precisely using that argument against them.
Of course there is no proof that the Civil Service is racist. Because it is unconsciously racist.
Its state subsidy of the industry's profits in return for frozen bills. Businesses dont fall under the cap so they are totally fucked, especially small businesses.
And, as you say, all if this gets us to April only. And lets not forget, the cap builds in lag, so even if wholesale prices are down by April (highly doubtful), the cap will drift down slower, so even more rage.
At best this is a sticking plaster for households at already eye watering levels for 6 months costing billions in subsidising private profits.
We are so fucked its being heralded by some as 'a solution'
I expect the Tory solution to be more expensive and equally inadequate.
And this from the person who when asked if structural racism against black people exists can't say "yes" without tagging on a 'balancer' about white girls and Rotherham.
The same problem Jezza has when he's asked about antisemitism. Can't recognize or condemn it without some little rider or other. It's a "tell" with him - of at best an inability to grasp the issue - just as it is with you.
Sorry, Leon, but that's how I see it and I'm pretty sure I AM seeing it.
I suppose I am flattered. Thanks
(Woolie's plan is a clever first step)
In the same speech, she characterised Jewish culture in ways that some feel were stereotyping.
The most detailed write-up of her comments that I can find is https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/12/liz-truss-protect-british-jews-antisemitism-woke-culture
(do your own punchline)
If you want to really get depressed search articles about decommissioning north sea oil and gas from around 2017...
THere is only one of you, but you appear in many different forms and we all worship at your shrine.
Probably made by Pantherella.
Have I got that right, Kinabalu?
A look outside my office window tells me it isn't.
Re-spawn is not an option. It’s inevitable.
But I must be away. My gym beckons and the frisson will be building down there as they await.
Then a G&T or three and as for this evening - who knows? It's a blank canvas on which I have yet to lay my brush.
Brace.
And Laters.
I wear the badge of being the anti-Leon with pride.
We are responsible for our own actions and failures to act. Not those of the long dead. Getting people to accept and act on this apparently simple precept is quite hard enough without expecting them to bear the moral burden of the actions of others.
However, he has been directly responsible for posters leaving PB. @Byronic @LadyG and @eadric for starters. Good and honourable posters to a man and woman and without question they all left on his whim!
I think @IanB2 is one of the best and most astute posters on the site
Victoria was the first monarch to knight a Jew since 1700 (Sir Moses Montefiore Montefiore) , the first to make a Jew a baronet (Sir Isaac Goldsmid) and the first to create a Jewish peer (Nathan Rothschild, 1st Baron). And, she adored Disraeli. And Tum Tum had plenty of Jewish friends.
By 1850, it had been settled that a Jew could be a gentleman, so long as he was polite, not flashy, and acknowledged that to be born English was to win first prize in the lottery of life. Upper class Englishmen, of couse, could be as vulgar as they liked.
Essentially, even as someone who has always believed in the 'free market', you're right.
Free market my arse, we spend untold billions propping the twat up as it staggers about pissed and coked up on our money.
To misquote Edna St Vincent Millay, The Free Market does not bring relief, you all have lied who told me the Free Market would ease me of my pain
Protectionism is the cheese, and pork